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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787753 is a reply to message #787751 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38

I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.


While I think Hamilton may be as good or better of a fit than Barrie, I agree. He should get big dollars from someone this summer, and I'm A) not sure the Oilers can afford to spend that and B) think that RD is probably not the spot in the roster to blow your brains out on this summer.

That said, if you could get Hamilton on a reasonable contract, I'd let Larsson walk and happily move forward with a Hamilton/Bear/Bouchard RD.

It really is too bad that Chiarelli wasn't able to convince his old pals in Boston to give up Hamilton in 2015. That team would have looked a lot better then, and it would have been a lot easier to swallow giving up the Barzal pick for Hamilton than for Reinhart...

I thought the report was Chia offered the Bruins a much better picks package than the Flames but they refused to trade with him and choose the lesser package from the Flames?



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787754 is a reply to message #787753 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 12:01

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38

I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.


While I think Hamilton may be as good or better of a fit than Barrie, I agree. He should get big dollars from someone this summer, and I'm A) not sure the Oilers can afford to spend that and B) think that RD is probably not the spot in the roster to blow your brains out on this summer.

That said, if you could get Hamilton on a reasonable contract, I'd let Larsson walk and happily move forward with a Hamilton/Bear/Bouchard RD.

It really is too bad that Chiarelli wasn't able to convince his old pals in Boston to give up Hamilton in 2015. That team would have looked a lot better then, and it would have been a lot easier to swallow giving up the Barzal pick for Hamilton than for Reinhart...

I thought the report was Chia offered the Bruins a much better picks package than the Flames but they refused to trade with him and choose the lesser package from the Flames?


Yup, out of spite because of sourness between Chia and his old crew.

First sign of things to come in the age of the Chia!



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787755 is a reply to message #787753 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 12:01

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38

I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.


While I think Hamilton may be as good or better of a fit than Barrie, I agree. He should get big dollars from someone this summer, and I'm A) not sure the Oilers can afford to spend that and B) think that RD is probably not the spot in the roster to blow your brains out on this summer.

That said, if you could get Hamilton on a reasonable contract, I'd let Larsson walk and happily move forward with a Hamilton/Bear/Bouchard RD.

It really is too bad that Chiarelli wasn't able to convince his old pals in Boston to give up Hamilton in 2015. That team would have looked a lot better then, and it would have been a lot easier to swallow giving up the Barzal pick for Hamilton than for Reinhart...

I thought the report was Chia offered the Bruins a much better picks package than the Flames but they refused to trade with him and choose the lesser package from the Flames?


Almost the same package actually. The Flames pick was just ahead of the Oilers, but the later pick was several picks after the Oilers pick. They were close enough that you could make a case for accepting either.

Apparently the Bruins, knowing that Chia was a spaz when it came to trades and liable to panic and make a mistake, asked him to include Darnell Nurse alongside those picks - a ridiculous ask really.

Chiarelli declined, the Flames did the deal, and then Chiarelli turned around and offered almost as much to the Islanders for Reinhart - proving the Bruins management right that he'd panic and make a mistake if pressured.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787756 is a reply to message #787755 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 12:01

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:52

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 11:38

I really don't think the Oilers are getting Dougie Hamilton. This will upset a lot of people who will blame the Oilers management, but I just can't see him signing here.

And honestly, the reason against signing Barrie is that there a) isn't money, and b) Bouchard is NHL-ready. Hamilton may be better than Barrie, but those same arguments kind of remain for either of them.


While I think Hamilton may be as good or better of a fit than Barrie, I agree. He should get big dollars from someone this summer, and I'm A) not sure the Oilers can afford to spend that and B) think that RD is probably not the spot in the roster to blow your brains out on this summer.

That said, if you could get Hamilton on a reasonable contract, I'd let Larsson walk and happily move forward with a Hamilton/Bear/Bouchard RD.

It really is too bad that Chiarelli wasn't able to convince his old pals in Boston to give up Hamilton in 2015. That team would have looked a lot better then, and it would have been a lot easier to swallow giving up the Barzal pick for Hamilton than for Reinhart...

I thought the report was Chia offered the Bruins a much better picks package than the Flames but they refused to trade with him and choose the lesser package from the Flames?


Almost the same package actually. The Flames pick was just ahead of the Oilers, but the later pick was several picks after the Oilers pick. They were close enough that you could make a case for accepting either.

Apparently the Bruins, knowing that Chia was a spaz when it came to trades and liable to panic and make a mistake, asked him to include Darnell Nurse alongside those picks - a ridiculous ask really.

Chiarelli declined, the Flames did the deal, and then Chiarelli turned around and offered almost as much to the Islanders for Reinhart - proving the Bruins management right that he'd panic and make a mistake if pressured.



And Boston picks a guy ranked for mid-2nd round with that slightly improved mid-1st rounder lol.



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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787760 is a reply to message #787756 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I don't think Hamilton would sign in Edmonton because of the market. He took a lot of abuse when he was in Calgary so I don't see him wanting to come to Edmonton vs staying in a market where he can just disappear.


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787774 is a reply to message #787751 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:52

It really is too bad that Chiarelli wasn't able to convince his old pals in Boston to give up Hamilton in 2015. That team would have looked a lot better then, and it would have been a lot easier to swallow giving up the Barzal pick for Hamilton than for Reinhart...


Watching the highlights from game 1, Barzal putting on a show, I am so grateful for those 29 glorious Griffin games.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787775 is a reply to message #787774 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 17:40

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:52

It really is too bad that Chiarelli wasn't able to convince his old pals in Boston to give up Hamilton in 2015. That team would have looked a lot better then, and it would have been a lot easier to swallow giving up the Barzal pick for Hamilton than for Reinhart...


Watching the highlights from game 1, Barzal putting on a show, I am so grateful for those 29 glorious Griffin games.


The craziest thing is that if the Bruins had traded with us instead of Calgary, we could have not only had a MUCH better defenceman, but we would have likely seen the Bruins use that pick on Zach Senyshen. If the 2nd round picks stayed the same, it would now be Hamilton for Senyshen, Mitchell Stephens and Jonas Siegenthaler...

Calgary might have ended up with Barzal, Kyle Connor or Thomas Chabot though, unless they too preferred Eriksson-Ek...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787761 is a reply to message #786407 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Oilers News and Updates @oilersaccess

Elliotte Friedman: "Edmonton and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are grinding to find common ground."

Kurt Leavins has reported earlier this week that RNH may give up money for term.



I don't mind long term with the Nuge if he's willing to get to that 5-5.5M range. I don't see him declining much over the next 5-6 years.

He probably continues to leave us wanting more as can't help but keep his #1OA history in mind, but at least the performance will better match up with the cap hit. Play him on the frickin wing with Drai though damn it.

[Updated on: Tue, 15 June 2021 13:04]


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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787762 is a reply to message #787761 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:02

Oilers News and Updates @oilersaccess

Elliotte Friedman: "Edmonton and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are grinding to find common ground."

Kurt Leavins has reported earlier this week that RNH may give up money for term.



I don't mind long term with the Nuge if he's willing to get to that 5-5.5M range. I don't see him declining much over the next 5-6 years.

He probably continues to leave us wanting more as can't help but keep his #1OA history in mind, but at least the performance will better match up with the cap hit. Play him on the frickin wing though damn it.

Time for Nuge to show he means what he has said. He wants to stay and he wants to win. So show it. I have no doubt in my mind that there will be teams out there who will look past his 5 on 5 scoring being not that great over his whole career, look past he's a complimentary player, look past he only produces a lot when paired with the elite of the elite and look past he is by far a superior winger than center and offer him more money to be a top 6 center. I could see a team like Ottawa, Detroit, Columbus, Arizona all who lack top 6 centers and have cap spacing offering him more. Maybe Seattle.

I do not see a team who is either on par with the Oilers or better outbidding the Oilers because they wouldn't value him as much as the Oilers and usually don't have the cap space. So in my opinion, if Nuge chases the money, that signals to me what he's about. Paying Nuge a salary starting with a 5 is not an insult to Nuge and mean he has to start going to the food bank. On a remotely decent team not desperate for talent, Nuge's value as a complimentary top 6 winger if around 5 mill.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787770 is a reply to message #787762 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:09


Time for Nuge to show he means what he has said. He wants to stay and he wants to win. So show it. I have no doubt in my mind that there will be teams out there who will look past his 5 on 5 scoring being not that great over his whole career, look past he's a complimentary player, look past he only produces a lot when paired with the elite of the elite and look past he is by far a superior winger than center and offer him more money to be a top 6 center. I could see a team like Ottawa, Detroit, Columbus, Arizona all who lack top 6 centers and have cap spacing offering him more. Maybe Seattle.

I do not see a team who is either on par with the Oilers or better outbidding the Oilers because they wouldn't value him as much as the Oilers and usually don't have the cap space. So in my opinion, if Nuge chases the money, that signals to me what he's about. Paying Nuge a salary starting with a 5 is not an insult to Nuge and mean he has to start going to the food bank. On a remotely decent team not desperate for talent, Nuge's value as a complimentary top 6 winger if around 5 mill.


I used to feel this way about contract negotiations. In the end, I think it's too simplistic a view to say someone only cares about the money if they move on. There's a few things here:

1) Money is important, and a player's career, while lucrative compared to most jobs, is fleeting. You make all your money in a compressed period of time, and given their young ages and lack of fiscal experience, many players don't invest their money wisely. Taking an extra million a year for a six or seven year deal is a LOT of money, and could impact their post-hockey life in a meaningful way.

2) Prime-age unrestricted free agency doesn't come to players very often - most will only have one time in their entire career where they reach free agency and still have more than just a decline in performance ahead of them. You just can't blame someone for not taking that opportunity - because it won't come again. If Nugent-Hopkins signs a below market deal now for, say, 5 years, it is unlikely anyone is paying him more money when he's next a free agent. He could sign a single year deal, but if he does, he's taking a big risk because if he gets seriously hurt, he may not get any contract again.

2) There's little security in hockey. Teams can trade you, waive you, etc. Even if you have a no movement clause, you can be scratched, you can be demoted down the lineup, you can be replaced. There isn't a single player who has been with the team for all of Nugent-Hopkins career so he's got to be pretty aware that there's a mercenary nature to this. He's seen a lot of friends come and go, and some of them he's seen do a lot better for having left.

3) The team can't really sell an expectation of future success, given that in the 10 seasons he's been here, they've seen playoffs only 2 and a half times. There isn't a lot of evidence that the Oilers have been building a winning team around the top end of the roster. Given what they've done, and how poorly constructed the team is after the high end guys they have been able to draft, I wouldn't blame anyone who didn't have confidence that signing a long-term deal in Edmonton is their best path to a championship. You may very well be able to sign for more money somewhere else AND have a better chance to win there.

I hope that Nugent-Hopkins is willing to sign a team friendly deal here, but I won't castigate him for greed if he decides to go somewhere else. We've had 10 years with him, and the team has failed him consistently in that time. It's amazing if he feels a sense of loyalty to the Oilers after all that, and great if it gets us a deal but if not? It's totally understandable.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787771 is a reply to message #787770 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:09


Time for Nuge to show he means what he has said. He wants to stay and he wants to win. So show it. I have no doubt in my mind that there will be teams out there who will look past his 5 on 5 scoring being not that great over his whole career, look past he's a complimentary player, look past he only produces a lot when paired with the elite of the elite and look past he is by far a superior winger than center and offer him more money to be a top 6 center. I could see a team like Ottawa, Detroit, Columbus, Arizona all who lack top 6 centers and have cap spacing offering him more. Maybe Seattle.

I do not see a team who is either on par with the Oilers or better outbidding the Oilers because they wouldn't value him as much as the Oilers and usually don't have the cap space. So in my opinion, if Nuge chases the money, that signals to me what he's about. Paying Nuge a salary starting with a 5 is not an insult to Nuge and mean he has to start going to the food bank. On a remotely decent team not desperate for talent, Nuge's value as a complimentary top 6 winger if around 5 mill.


I used to feel this way about contract negotiations. In the end, I think it's too simplistic a view to say someone only cares about the money if they move on. There's a few things here:

1) Money is important, and a player's career, while lucrative compared to most jobs, is fleeting. You make all your money in a compressed period of time, and given their young ages and lack of fiscal experience, many players don't invest their money wisely. Taking an extra million a year for a six or seven year deal is a LOT of money, and could impact their post-hockey life in a meaningful way.

2) Prime-age unrestricted free agency doesn't come to players very often - most will only have one time in their entire career where they reach free agency and still have more than just a decline in performance ahead of them. You just can't blame someone for not taking that opportunity - because it won't come again. If Nugent-Hopkins signs a below market deal now for, say, 5 years, it is unlikely anyone is paying him more money when he's next a free agent. He could sign a single year deal, but if he does, he's taking a big risk because if he gets seriously hurt, he may not get any contract again.

2) There's little security in hockey. Teams can trade you, waive you, etc. Even if you have a no movement clause, you can be scratched, you can be demoted down the lineup, you can be replaced. There isn't a single player who has been with the team for all of Nugent-Hopkins career so he's got to be pretty aware that there's a mercenary nature to this. He's seen a lot of friends come and go, and some of them he's seen do a lot better for having left.

3) The team can't really sell an expectation of future success, given that in the 10 seasons he's been here, they've seen playoffs only 2 and a half times. There isn't a lot of evidence that the Oilers have been building a winning team around the top end of the roster. Given what they've done, and how poorly constructed the team is after the high end guys they have been able to draft, I wouldn't blame anyone who didn't have confidence that signing a long-term deal in Edmonton is their best path to a championship. You may very well be able to sign for more money somewhere else AND have a better chance to win there.

I hope that Nugent-Hopkins is willing to sign a team friendly deal here, but I won't castigate him for greed if he decides to go somewhere else. We've had 10 years with him, and the team has failed him consistently in that time. It's amazing if he feels a sense of loyalty to the Oilers after all that, and great if it gets us a deal but if not? It's totally understandable.


Hey there is one guy that's been here below Katz the whole time Nuge has. Kevin Lowe.

If a legend and someone as used to winning as Lowe is willing to stick around with this loser franchise and try to see things through to the end, then Nuge can damn well do it too!



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787772 is a reply to message #787770 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:09


Time for Nuge to show he means what he has said. He wants to stay and he wants to win. So show it. I have no doubt in my mind that there will be teams out there who will look past his 5 on 5 scoring being not that great over his whole career, look past he's a complimentary player, look past he only produces a lot when paired with the elite of the elite and look past he is by far a superior winger than center and offer him more money to be a top 6 center. I could see a team like Ottawa, Detroit, Columbus, Arizona all who lack top 6 centers and have cap spacing offering him more. Maybe Seattle.

I do not see a team who is either on par with the Oilers or better outbidding the Oilers because they wouldn't value him as much as the Oilers and usually don't have the cap space. So in my opinion, if Nuge chases the money, that signals to me what he's about. Paying Nuge a salary starting with a 5 is not an insult to Nuge and mean he has to start going to the food bank. On a remotely decent team not desperate for talent, Nuge's value as a complimentary top 6 winger if around 5 mill.


I used to feel this way about contract negotiations. In the end, I think it's too simplistic a view to say someone only cares about the money if they move on. There's a few things here:

1) Money is important, and a player's career, while lucrative compared to most jobs, is fleeting. You make all your money in a compressed period of time, and given their young ages and lack of fiscal experience, many players don't invest their money wisely. Taking an extra million a year for a six or seven year deal is a LOT of money, and could impact their post-hockey life in a meaningful way.

2) Prime-age unrestricted free agency doesn't come to players very often - most will only have one time in their entire career where they reach free agency and still have more than just a decline in performance ahead of them. You just can't blame someone for not taking that opportunity - because it won't come again. If Nugent-Hopkins signs a below market deal now for, say, 5 years, it is unlikely anyone is paying him more money when he's next a free agent. He could sign a single year deal, but if he does, he's taking a big risk because if he gets seriously hurt, he may not get any contract again.

2) There's little security in hockey. Teams can trade you, waive you, etc. Even if you have a no movement clause, you can be scratched, you can be demoted down the lineup, you can be replaced. There isn't a single player who has been with the team for all of Nugent-Hopkins career so he's got to be pretty aware that there's a mercenary nature to this. He's seen a lot of friends come and go, and some of them he's seen do a lot better for having left.

3) The team can't really sell an expectation of future success, given that in the 10 seasons he's been here, they've seen playoffs only 2 and a half times. There isn't a lot of evidence that the Oilers have been building a winning team around the top end of the roster. Given what they've done, and how poorly constructed the team is after the high end guys they have been able to draft, I wouldn't blame anyone who didn't have confidence that signing a long-term deal in Edmonton is their best path to a championship. You may very well be able to sign for more money somewhere else AND have a better chance to win there.

I hope that Nugent-Hopkins is willing to sign a team friendly deal here, but I won't castigate him for greed if he decides to go somewhere else. We've had 10 years with him, and the team has failed him consistently in that time. It's amazing if he feels a sense of loyalty to the Oilers after all that, and great if it gets us a deal but if not? It's totally understandable.

If Nuge up until recently was a tweener NHLer making league mins and he got offered another 25K to go somewhere else, then I get what you are saying about taking advantage of making as much money as you can. He's made over 44 mill in career earnings. If he were to say sign with the Oilers for 5 years at 5 mill, so another 25 mill. He'd be 33 when he was finished the contract with 70 mill in career earnings and the opportunity to sign another deal for more money to finish his career. So he could end up with 80+ mill career earnings as an Oiler.

I have no doubt in my mind that some team will offer Nuge a few mill more in total over the length of this next contract but if he chooses to sign for "Less" with the Oilers, I don't think he's going to starve to death. Many, many, many players have taken a bit less to stay with their team. MacKinnon the other day said he would be taking less on his next deal to stay when the time comes. I don't know why it's basically unheard of for any Oilers UFA not to squeeze every last single penny out of the Oilers when we see time and time again other UFAs from other teams do the opposite.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787773 is a reply to message #787772 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:51


If Nuge up until recently was a tweener NHLer making league mins and he got offered another 25K to go somewhere else, then I get what you are saying about taking advantage of making as much money as you can. He's made over 44 mill in career earnings. If he were to say sign with the Oilers for 5 years at 5 mill, so another 25 mill. He'd be 33 when he was finished the contract with 70 mill in career earnings and the opportunity to sign another deal for more money to finish his career. So he could end up with 80+ mill career earnings as an Oiler.

I have no doubt in my mind that some team will offer Nuge a few mill more in total over the length of this next contract but if he chooses to sign for "Less" with the Oilers, I don't think he's going to starve to death. Many, many, many players have taken a bit less to stay with their team. MacKinnon the other day said he would be taking less on his next deal to stay when the time comes. I don't know why it's basically unheard of for any Oilers UFA not to squeeze every last single penny out of the Oilers when we see time and time again other UFAs from other teams do the opposite.


I think it's great if he wants to stay and is willing to accept less to do so. I don't think you can expect that of him, and I don't think it's a big character flaw if he doesn't. We're talking about MILLIONS of dollars left on the table. Can you imagine many scenarios with your employer where you'd shave that much off your future earnings if you're able to do the same work somewhere else for more money.

I think if the Oilers looked like they were close to a Cup it's a stronger argument. Everyone wants to win, and there is a value in that. I've said before if I'm a GM, my sales pitch to everyone is "you take less, I surround you with more talent and we win more." But the Oilers haven't worked that way, so why would one of your best players over the last decade, who's watched the team overpay all kinds of grinders, decide he should be the one to take the haircut? Especially if he knows that you're just going to take that money and overpay someone like Kassian, Russell or Chiasson with the extra?

There isn't a lot to suggest that the Oilers are on the brink of a run of championships. The GM just said that 3 wins in 20 years is a mark to strive for, and has already been cautioning people not to expect too much out of him this summer. I think that makes it harder to convince people they should take a discount to stay here. What's the sales pitch? We hope to win one or two Cups over the next decade!? I'm sorry - I think there needs to be more than that if you're asking someone to give up millions of dollars.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787800 is a reply to message #787773 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:51


If Nuge up until recently was a tweener NHLer making league mins and he got offered another 25K to go somewhere else, then I get what you are saying about taking advantage of making as much money as you can. He's made over 44 mill in career earnings. If he were to say sign with the Oilers for 5 years at 5 mill, so another 25 mill. He'd be 33 when he was finished the contract with 70 mill in career earnings and the opportunity to sign another deal for more money to finish his career. So he could end up with 80+ mill career earnings as an Oiler.

I have no doubt in my mind that some team will offer Nuge a few mill more in total over the length of this next contract but if he chooses to sign for "Less" with the Oilers, I don't think he's going to starve to death. Many, many, many players have taken a bit less to stay with their team. MacKinnon the other day said he would be taking less on his next deal to stay when the time comes. I don't know why it's basically unheard of for any Oilers UFA not to squeeze every last single penny out of the Oilers when we see time and time again other UFAs from other teams do the opposite.


I think it's great if he wants to stay and is willing to accept less to do so. I don't think you can expect that of him, and I don't think it's a big character flaw if he doesn't. We're talking about MILLIONS of dollars left on the table. Can you imagine many scenarios with your employer where you'd shave that much off your future earnings if you're able to do the same work somewhere else for more money.

I think if the Oilers looked like they were close to a Cup it's a stronger argument. Everyone wants to win, and there is a value in that. I've said before if I'm a GM, my sales pitch to everyone is "you take less, I surround you with more talent and we win more." But the Oilers haven't worked that way, so why would one of your best players over the last decade, who's watched the team overpay all kinds of grinders, decide he should be the one to take the haircut? Especially if he knows that you're just going to take that money and overpay someone like Kassian, Russell or Chiasson with the extra?

There isn't a lot to suggest that the Oilers are on the brink of a run of championships. The GM just said that 3 wins in 20 years is a mark to strive for, and has already been cautioning people not to expect too much out of him this summer. I think that makes it harder to convince people they should take a discount to stay here. What's the sales pitch? We hope to win one or two Cups over the next decade!? I'm sorry - I think there needs to be more than that if you're asking someone to give up millions of dollars.


He would need a comparable offer from a better team to move. I don’t see it happening, plus McDavid and Draisaitl both commented on how much they enjoyed having on the team. Along with Nurse, this is the core.

I’d be shocked if he doesn’t re-sign. That being said, I sadly remember the Ryan Smyth trade.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787806 is a reply to message #787800 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 22:55

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:51


If Nuge up until recently was a tweener NHLer making league mins and he got offered another 25K to go somewhere else, then I get what you are saying about taking advantage of making as much money as you can. He's made over 44 mill in career earnings. If he were to say sign with the Oilers for 5 years at 5 mill, so another 25 mill. He'd be 33 when he was finished the contract with 70 mill in career earnings and the opportunity to sign another deal for more money to finish his career. So he could end up with 80+ mill career earnings as an Oiler.

I have no doubt in my mind that some team will offer Nuge a few mill more in total over the length of this next contract but if he chooses to sign for "Less" with the Oilers, I don't think he's going to starve to death. Many, many, many players have taken a bit less to stay with their team. MacKinnon the other day said he would be taking less on his next deal to stay when the time comes. I don't know why it's basically unheard of for any Oilers UFA not to squeeze every last single penny out of the Oilers when we see time and time again other UFAs from other teams do the opposite.


I think it's great if he wants to stay and is willing to accept less to do so. I don't think you can expect that of him, and I don't think it's a big character flaw if he doesn't. We're talking about MILLIONS of dollars left on the table. Can you imagine many scenarios with your employer where you'd shave that much off your future earnings if you're able to do the same work somewhere else for more money.

I think if the Oilers looked like they were close to a Cup it's a stronger argument. Everyone wants to win, and there is a value in that. I've said before if I'm a GM, my sales pitch to everyone is "you take less, I surround you with more talent and we win more." But the Oilers haven't worked that way, so why would one of your best players over the last decade, who's watched the team overpay all kinds of grinders, decide he should be the one to take the haircut? Especially if he knows that you're just going to take that money and overpay someone like Kassian, Russell or Chiasson with the extra?

There isn't a lot to suggest that the Oilers are on the brink of a run of championships. The GM just said that 3 wins in 20 years is a mark to strive for, and has already been cautioning people not to expect too much out of him this summer. I think that makes it harder to convince people they should take a discount to stay here. What's the sales pitch? We hope to win one or two Cups over the next decade!? I'm sorry - I think there needs to be more than that if you're asking someone to give up millions of dollars.


He would need a comparable offer from a better team to move. I don’t see it happening, plus McDavid and Draisaitl both commented on how much they enjoyed having on the team. Along with Nurse, this is the core.

I’d be shocked if he doesn’t re-sign. That being said, I sadly remember the Ryan Smyth trade.


Agreed, the Ryan Smyth trade was horrible.


The idea that we gave up Colin Fraser AND a 7th round pick for clearly declining player is a bit outrageous.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787822 is a reply to message #787773 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 17:05

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:51


If Nuge up until recently was a tweener NHLer making league mins and he got offered another 25K to go somewhere else, then I get what you are saying about taking advantage of making as much money as you can. He's made over 44 mill in career earnings. If he were to say sign with the Oilers for 5 years at 5 mill, so another 25 mill. He'd be 33 when he was finished the contract with 70 mill in career earnings and the opportunity to sign another deal for more money to finish his career. So he could end up with 80+ mill career earnings as an Oiler.

I have no doubt in my mind that some team will offer Nuge a few mill more in total over the length of this next contract but if he chooses to sign for "Less" with the Oilers, I don't think he's going to starve to death. Many, many, many players have taken a bit less to stay with their team. MacKinnon the other day said he would be taking less on his next deal to stay when the time comes. I don't know why it's basically unheard of for any Oilers UFA not to squeeze every last single penny out of the Oilers when we see time and time again other UFAs from other teams do the opposite.


I think it's great if he wants to stay and is willing to accept less to do so. I don't think you can expect that of him, and I don't think it's a big character flaw if he doesn't. We're talking about MILLIONS of dollars left on the table. Can you imagine many scenarios with your employer where you'd shave that much off your future earnings if you're able to do the same work somewhere else for more money.

I think if the Oilers looked like they were close to a Cup it's a stronger argument. Everyone wants to win, and there is a value in that. I've said before if I'm a GM, my sales pitch to everyone is "you take less, I surround you with more talent and we win more." But the Oilers haven't worked that way, so why would one of your best players over the last decade, who's watched the team overpay all kinds of grinders, decide he should be the one to take the haircut? Especially if he knows that you're just going to take that money and overpay someone like Kassian, Russell or Chiasson with the extra?

There isn't a lot to suggest that the Oilers are on the brink of a run of championships. The GM just said that 3 wins in 20 years is a mark to strive for, and has already been cautioning people not to expect too much out of him this summer. I think that makes it harder to convince people they should take a discount to stay here. What's the sales pitch? We hope to win one or two Cups over the next decade!? I'm sorry - I think there needs to be more than that if you're asking someone to give up millions of dollars.

I don't begrudge a player for taking the money and running. They have that right so I totally get what you are saying. So if that is what he wants, go for it. I won't be happy if he does but I get it. I already said that I believe he could get more than 6 mill on the open market to play top 6 center somewhere. I listed off several teams who when I look at their roster, they severely lack centers let alone guys who might be able to play top 6 center and the teams I listed will have lots of money to spend but they are bad teams. So if that is what Nuge wants, go for it.

BUT, like I said we have seen time and time again where other players on other good teams take a little less to stay to keep the band together and to try to win because in order to win, you have to have good players and good players cost money. You don't often see UFA's on other teams soak their current team for the absolute top dollar. Except when it comes to Oilers UFA's. I understand management decisions impact a teams chance to win. I get it. But a person can look at any good team and they will rarely have a home grown UFA getting the tippy top of money to stay. Usually the contracts that look not too great from UFA's are guys who have come from other teams.

Landeskog is a UFA and I would take him over Nuge in a freaking heart beat. He was on pace for 30 goals, 79 pt season in 82. He's big, skates well, physical, is a big time leader as he's been a captain early in his career. He's exactly what the Oilers could use patrolling one of McD's or Leon's wing. I bet on the open market he could get over 7 easy. I am sure he will get resigned in Colorado, I bet he will take LESS to stay in Colorado than he could get on the open market. If Nuge ends up in even the ball park of Landeskog, that to me is a gross overpayment by any team.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787825 is a reply to message #787822 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:49


BUT, like I said we have seen time and time again where other players on other good teams take a little less to stay to keep the band together and to try to win because in order to win, you have to have good players and good players cost money. You don't often see UFA's on other teams soak their current team for the absolute top dollar. Except when it comes to Oilers UFA's. I understand management decisions impact a teams chance to win. I get it. But a person can look at any good team and they will rarely have a home grown UFA getting the tippy top of money to stay. Usually the contracts that look not too great from UFA's are guys who have come from other teams.

Landeskog is a UFA and I would take him over Nuge in a freaking heart beat. He was on pace for 30 goals, 79 pt season in 82. He's big, skates well, physical, is a big time leader as he's been a captain early in his career. He's exactly what the Oilers could use patrolling one of McD's or Leon's wing. I bet on the open market he could get over 7 easy. I am sure he will get resigned in Colorado, I bet he will take LESS to stay in Colorado than he could get on the open market. If Nuge ends up in even the ball park of Landeskog, that to me is a gross overpayment by any team.


I think you are answering your own question there.

Gabriel Landeskog has been in the league the same amount of time as Nugent Hopkins. When he came in, just like Nugent-Hopkins, his team was pretty bad.

But they've developed and grown and have real depth. They have been to the playoffs four years running now, and to the second round the last three years. This year they won the President's Trophy, and they got beat out in the 2nd round by the regular season's second best team in the NHL (unfortunate for them that the two best teams were in the same division.) The team Colorado has built has some superstars on it, but it also has production from depth as well. They're a better constructed team, and not one that is stratified in to the good players and the guys who we hope just don't screw things up for us.

Colorado uses analytics - from the point where they parted ways with Patrick Roy, they've taken full advantage of those tools:

https://milehighsticking.com/2016/09/16/colorado-avalanche-c hanging-philosophy-analytic-approach/
https://dobberhockey.com/2021/06/07/wild-west-colorado-avala nche-built-by-analytics/

There's reason to be optimistic if you're an Avs player that that team is on the cusp of greatness. Can you say the same about the Oilers without rose-coloured glasses on?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787826 is a reply to message #787825 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:49


BUT, like I said we have seen time and time again where other players on other good teams take a little less to stay to keep the band together and to try to win because in order to win, you have to have good players and good players cost money. You don't often see UFA's on other teams soak their current team for the absolute top dollar. Except when it comes to Oilers UFA's. I understand management decisions impact a teams chance to win. I get it. But a person can look at any good team and they will rarely have a home grown UFA getting the tippy top of money to stay. Usually the contracts that look not too great from UFA's are guys who have come from other teams.

Landeskog is a UFA and I would take him over Nuge in a freaking heart beat. He was on pace for 30 goals, 79 pt season in 82. He's big, skates well, physical, is a big time leader as he's been a captain early in his career. He's exactly what the Oilers could use patrolling one of McD's or Leon's wing. I bet on the open market he could get over 7 easy. I am sure he will get resigned in Colorado, I bet he will take LESS to stay in Colorado than he could get on the open market. If Nuge ends up in even the ball park of Landeskog, that to me is a gross overpayment by any team.


I think you are answering your own question there.

Gabriel Landeskog has been in the league the same amount of time as Nugent Hopkins. When he came in, just like Nugent-Hopkins, his team was pretty bad.

But they've developed and grown and have real depth. They have been to the playoffs four years running now, and to the second round the last three years. This year they won the President's Trophy, and they got beat out in the 2nd round by the regular season's second best team in the NHL (unfortunate for them that the two best teams were in the same division.) The team Colorado has built has some superstars on it, but it also has production from depth as well. They're a better constructed team, and not one that is stratified in to the good players and the guys who we hope just don't screw things up for us.

Colorado uses analytics - from the point where they parted ways with Patrick Roy, they've taken full advantage of those tools:

https://milehighsticking.com/2016/09/16/colorado-avalanche-c hanging-philosophy-analytic-approach/
https://dobberhockey.com/2021/06/07/wild-west-colorado-avala nche-built-by-analytics/

There's reason to be optimistic if you're an Avs player that that team is on the cusp of greatness. Can you say the same about the Oilers without rose-coloured glasses on?

Do I think the Avs are better than the Oilers right now? You bet. But if you are trying to make your team better, overpaying for players again and again whether its your own guys or bringing in UFA never works. It's been proven over and over again not just on the Oilers but any team.

I would love for you to actually answer a question of mine with a straight answer you a change. So I will try again and I get it will be a long question but I want to make sure it's as clear as I can possibly make it:

If Nuge was not an Oiler ever, he was a UFA from another team. Came into the league the same time. He played in the exact same role over his whole career as he did in Edmonton including being phased out as a center. He put up the exact same numbers every single season as he did in Edmonton. He has no cups, no awards, nothing different. Everything was the same except he did it on another team, any team you want. If the Oilers came out and said "We have signed Nugent-Hopkins to a 6 yr deal for 6.25 mill per season", would you be happy with that contract and think it's a good deal?

I do not know your answer yet but would be very surprised if you thought that was a good deal and instead would be telling us all why the Oilers management are a bunch of idiots again. So for me, that is why I have a hard time with people's argument with Nuge because I believe that if you take the fact he was ever an Oiler away and looked at him just as a player, most people would lose their minds in anger if the Oilers signed him for something that started with a 6 per season. Yet because he's a current Oilers, I see lots of people totally cool with it.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 June 2021 11:18]


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787834 is a reply to message #787826 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 11:16

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:49


BUT, like I said we have seen time and time again where other players on other good teams take a little less to stay to keep the band together and to try to win because in order to win, you have to have good players and good players cost money. You don't often see UFA's on other teams soak their current team for the absolute top dollar. Except when it comes to Oilers UFA's. I understand management decisions impact a teams chance to win. I get it. But a person can look at any good team and they will rarely have a home grown UFA getting the tippy top of money to stay. Usually the contracts that look not too great from UFA's are guys who have come from other teams.

Landeskog is a UFA and I would take him over Nuge in a freaking heart beat. He was on pace for 30 goals, 79 pt season in 82. He's big, skates well, physical, is a big time leader as he's been a captain early in his career. He's exactly what the Oilers could use patrolling one of McD's or Leon's wing. I bet on the open market he could get over 7 easy. I am sure he will get resigned in Colorado, I bet he will take LESS to stay in Colorado than he could get on the open market. If Nuge ends up in even the ball park of Landeskog, that to me is a gross overpayment by any team.


I think you are answering your own question there.

Gabriel Landeskog has been in the league the same amount of time as Nugent Hopkins. When he came in, just like Nugent-Hopkins, his team was pretty bad.

But they've developed and grown and have real depth. They have been to the playoffs four years running now, and to the second round the last three years. This year they won the President's Trophy, and they got beat out in the 2nd round by the regular season's second best team in the NHL (unfortunate for them that the two best teams were in the same division.) The team Colorado has built has some superstars on it, but it also has production from depth as well. They're a better constructed team, and not one that is stratified in to the good players and the guys who we hope just don't screw things up for us.

Colorado uses analytics - from the point where they parted ways with Patrick Roy, they've taken full advantage of those tools:

https://milehighsticking.com/2016/09/16/colorado-avalanche-c hanging-philosophy-analytic-approach/
https://dobberhockey.com/2021/06/07/wild-west-colorado-avala nche-built-by-analytics/

There's reason to be optimistic if you're an Avs player that that team is on the cusp of greatness. Can you say the same about the Oilers without rose-coloured glasses on?

Do I think the Avs are better than the Oilers right now? You bet. But if you are trying to make your team better, overpaying for players again and again whether its your own guys or bringing in UFA never works. It's been proven over and over again not just on the Oilers but any team.

I would love for you to actually answer a question of mine with a straight answer you a change. So I will try again and I get it will be a long question but I want to make sure it's as clear as I can possibly make it:

If Nuge was not an Oiler ever, he was a UFA from another team. Came into the league the same time. He played in the exact same role over his whole career as he did in Edmonton including being phased out as a center. He put up the exact same numbers every single season as he did in Edmonton. He has no cups, no awards, nothing different. Everything was the same except he did it on another team, any team you want. If the Oilers came out and said "We have signed Nugent-Hopkins to a 6 yr deal for 6.25 mill per season", would you be happy with that contract and think it's a good deal?

I do not know your answer yet but would be very surprised if you thought that was a good deal and instead would be telling us all why the Oilers management are a bunch of idiots again. So for me, that is why I have a hard time with people's argument with Nuge because I believe that if you take the fact he was ever an Oiler away and looked at him just as a player, most people would lose their minds in anger if the Oilers signed him for something that started with a 6 per season. Yet because he's a current Oilers, I see lots of people totally cool with it.


Are you asking me if I think whether we should sign Nugent-Hopkins to 6x6.25MM now? I do not. I would not think so if he was not an Oiler currently either. That would be an overpayment either way based on where the cap is and what he's done lately. It will surprise me if the team pays him that much, and if they do, I think it's a further failure of cap management.

I'm not sure the relevance there though to how Colorado is being managed versus how Edmonton is managed? I doubt that the Avalanche are going to give Nuge that contract either though, if that's helpful.

I might be willing to pay Hall that money though...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787837 is a reply to message #787834 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 12:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 11:16

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:49


BUT, like I said we have seen time and time again where other players on other good teams take a little less to stay to keep the band together and to try to win because in order to win, you have to have good players and good players cost money. You don't often see UFA's on other teams soak their current team for the absolute top dollar. Except when it comes to Oilers UFA's. I understand management decisions impact a teams chance to win. I get it. But a person can look at any good team and they will rarely have a home grown UFA getting the tippy top of money to stay. Usually the contracts that look not too great from UFA's are guys who have come from other teams.

Landeskog is a UFA and I would take him over Nuge in a freaking heart beat. He was on pace for 30 goals, 79 pt season in 82. He's big, skates well, physical, is a big time leader as he's been a captain early in his career. He's exactly what the Oilers could use patrolling one of McD's or Leon's wing. I bet on the open market he could get over 7 easy. I am sure he will get resigned in Colorado, I bet he will take LESS to stay in Colorado than he could get on the open market. If Nuge ends up in even the ball park of Landeskog, that to me is a gross overpayment by any team.


I think you are answering your own question there.

Gabriel Landeskog has been in the league the same amount of time as Nugent Hopkins. When he came in, just like Nugent-Hopkins, his team was pretty bad.

But they've developed and grown and have real depth. They have been to the playoffs four years running now, and to the second round the last three years. This year they won the President's Trophy, and they got beat out in the 2nd round by the regular season's second best team in the NHL (unfortunate for them that the two best teams were in the same division.) The team Colorado has built has some superstars on it, but it also has production from depth as well. They're a better constructed team, and not one that is stratified in to the good players and the guys who we hope just don't screw things up for us.

Colorado uses analytics - from the point where they parted ways with Patrick Roy, they've taken full advantage of those tools:

https://milehighsticking.com/2016/09/16/colorado-avalanche-c hanging-philosophy-analytic-approach/
https://dobberhockey.com/2021/06/07/wild-west-colorado-avala nche-built-by-analytics/

There's reason to be optimistic if you're an Avs player that that team is on the cusp of greatness. Can you say the same about the Oilers without rose-coloured glasses on?

Do I think the Avs are better than the Oilers right now? You bet. But if you are trying to make your team better, overpaying for players again and again whether its your own guys or bringing in UFA never works. It's been proven over and over again not just on the Oilers but any team.

I would love for you to actually answer a question of mine with a straight answer you a change. So I will try again and I get it will be a long question but I want to make sure it's as clear as I can possibly make it:

If Nuge was not an Oiler ever, he was a UFA from another team. Came into the league the same time. He played in the exact same role over his whole career as he did in Edmonton including being phased out as a center. He put up the exact same numbers every single season as he did in Edmonton. He has no cups, no awards, nothing different. Everything was the same except he did it on another team, any team you want. If the Oilers came out and said "We have signed Nugent-Hopkins to a 6 yr deal for 6.25 mill per season", would you be happy with that contract and think it's a good deal?

I do not know your answer yet but would be very surprised if you thought that was a good deal and instead would be telling us all why the Oilers management are a bunch of idiots again. So for me, that is why I have a hard time with people's argument with Nuge because I believe that if you take the fact he was ever an Oiler away and looked at him just as a player, most people would lose their minds in anger if the Oilers signed him for something that started with a 6 per season. Yet because he's a current Oilers, I see lots of people totally cool with it.



I might be willing to pay Hall that money though...

I would tend to agree with you on Hall. I am not a big Hall fan but if he came to the Oilers at just over 6 mill which I think is fair for him, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

My guess is that Hall if he resigns with Boston, his contract per year will come in at 6 something. So if that happens, it just reinforces my opinion that if any team give Nuge a contract that starts with a 6 per year, it's an overpay because I would put Hall above Nuge as a player.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787854 is a reply to message #787837 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 13:29


I would tend to agree with you on Hall. I am not a big Hall fan but if he came to the Oilers at just over 6 mill which I think is fair for him, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

My guess is that Hall if he resigns with Boston, his contract per year will come in at 6 something. So if that happens, it just reinforces my opinion that if any team give Nuge a contract that starts with a 6 per year, it's an overpay because I would put Hall above Nuge as a player.


Good news is that Hall gels incredibly well with Drai if he were to come back. This would also allow Jesse P. to develop more chemistry with #97 on that first line.

Bad news is can you really count on Hall to provide timely secondary scoring in the playoffs in a more lumbering Western Conference when his game is built around driving the puck to the net with speed while unfortunately trying to avoid contact?

Both perspectives are likely moot with Hall mutually reuniting with the Bruins for his last big contract anyways



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787810 is a reply to message #787770 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:34



I hope that Nugent-Hopkins is willing to sign a team friendly deal here, but I won't castigate him for greed if he decides to go somewhere else. We've had 10 years with him, and the team has failed him consistently in that time. It's amazing if he feels a sense of loyalty to the Oilers after all that, and great if it gets us a deal but if not? It's totally understandable.


I agree with your entire post. I used to often blame players for a lot of things on the business side. Called them greedy, selfish, disloyal etc.
As an adult and I learned the reality of the business side and how little power they actually have I was swayed to supporting the player in almost every aspect.

I also learned a new word today, castigate. I dont know if I have ever heard that word forget about knowing its meaning.
Also, I first ready it as "castrate" and thought, support RNH's decision or not that seems a little extreme.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787811 is a reply to message #787810 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:00

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:34



I hope that Nugent-Hopkins is willing to sign a team friendly deal here, but I won't castigate him for greed if he decides to go somewhere else. We've had 10 years with him, and the team has failed him consistently in that time. It's amazing if he feels a sense of loyalty to the Oilers after all that, and great if it gets us a deal but if not? It's totally understandable.


I agree with your entire post. I used to often blame players for a lot of things on the business side. Called them greedy, selfish, disloyal etc.
As an adult and I learned the reality of the business side and how little power they actually have I was swayed to supporting the player in almost every aspect.

I also learned a new word today, castigate. I dont know if I have ever heard that word forget about knowing its meaning.
Also, I first ready it as "castrate" and thought, support RNH's decision or not that seems a little extreme.



LOL - just read this - you got me, coffee all over the place!



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787812 is a reply to message #787810 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:00

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:34



I hope that Nugent-Hopkins is willing to sign a team friendly deal here, but I won't castigate him for greed if he decides to go somewhere else. We've had 10 years with him, and the team has failed him consistently in that time. It's amazing if he feels a sense of loyalty to the Oilers after all that, and great if it gets us a deal but if not? It's totally understandable.


I agree with your entire post. I used to often blame players for a lot of things on the business side. Called them greedy, selfish, disloyal etc.
As an adult and I learned the reality of the business side and how little power they actually have I was swayed to supporting the player in almost every aspect.

I also learned a new word today, castigate. I dont know if I have ever heard that word forget about knowing its meaning.
Also, I first ready it as "castrate" and thought, support RNH's decision or not that seems a little extreme.


I agree, players need not be castrated for choosing the wrong team for more money.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787814 is a reply to message #787812 ]
Wed, 16 June 2021 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 12:02

PlusOne wrote on Wed, 16 June 2021 10:00

Adam wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 14:34



I hope that Nugent-Hopkins is willing to sign a team friendly deal here, but I won't castigate him for greed if he decides to go somewhere else. We've had 10 years with him, and the team has failed him consistently in that time. It's amazing if he feels a sense of loyalty to the Oilers after all that, and great if it gets us a deal but if not? It's totally understandable.


I agree with your entire post. I used to often blame players for a lot of things on the business side. Called them greedy, selfish, disloyal etc.
As an adult and I learned the reality of the business side and how little power they actually have I was swayed to supporting the player in almost every aspect.

I also learned a new word today, castigate. I dont know if I have ever heard that word forget about knowing its meaning.
Also, I first ready it as "castrate" and thought, support RNH's decision or not that seems a little extreme.


I agree, players need not be castrated for choosing the wrong team for more money.


I don't know if I agree with this, if RNH chooses the Flames or Canucks (even if it is for more $) I think he deserves what he gets!
icon_eek



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787763 is a reply to message #787761 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:02

Oilers News and Updates @oilersaccess

Elliotte Friedman: "Edmonton and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are grinding to find common ground."

Kurt Leavins has reported earlier this week that RNH may give up money for term.



I don't mind long term with the Nuge if he's willing to get to that 5-5.5M range. I don't see him declining much over the next 5-6 years.

He probably continues to leave us wanting more as can't help but keep his #1OA history in mind, but at least the performance will better match up with the cap hit. Play him on the frickin wing with Drai though damn it.


As long as he's not on a Kyle Turris trajectory. If we go 6 years on RNH, that takes him to 34, and he has a history of injuries.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787764 is a reply to message #787763 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 16:37

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:02

Oilers News and Updates @oilersaccess

Elliotte Friedman: "Edmonton and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are grinding to find common ground."

Kurt Leavins has reported earlier this week that RNH may give up money for term.



I don't mind long term with the Nuge if he's willing to get to that 5-5.5M range. I don't see him declining much over the next 5-6 years.

He probably continues to leave us wanting more as can't help but keep his #1OA history in mind, but at least the performance will better match up with the cap hit. Play him on the frickin wing with Drai though damn it.


As long as he's not on a Kyle Turris trajectory. If we go 6 years on RNH, that takes him to 34, and he has a history of injuries.


We can just LTIR him until game 1 of the playoffs every year....



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787768 is a reply to message #787764 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Mike wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:38

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 16:37

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:02

Oilers News and Updates @oilersaccess

Elliotte Friedman: "Edmonton and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are grinding to find common ground."

Kurt Leavins has reported earlier this week that RNH may give up money for term.



I don't mind long term with the Nuge if he's willing to get to that 5-5.5M range. I don't see him declining much over the next 5-6 years.

He probably continues to leave us wanting more as can't help but keep his #1OA history in mind, but at least the performance will better match up with the cap hit. Play him on the frickin wing with Drai though damn it.


As long as he's not on a Kyle Turris trajectory. If we go 6 years on RNH, that takes him to 34, and he has a history of injuries.


We can just LTIR him until game 1 of the playoffs every year....

I think they should be doing that with Neal at the minimum.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787765 is a reply to message #787763 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:37

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:02

Oilers News and Updates @oilersaccess

Elliotte Friedman: "Edmonton and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are grinding to find common ground."

Kurt Leavins has reported earlier this week that RNH may give up money for term.



I don't mind long term with the Nuge if he's willing to get to that 5-5.5M range. I don't see him declining much over the next 5-6 years.

He probably continues to leave us wanting more as can't help but keep his #1OA history in mind, but at least the performance will better match up with the cap hit. Play him on the frickin wing with Drai though damn it.


As long as he's not on a Kyle Turris trajectory. If we go 6 years on RNH, that takes him to 34, and he has a history of injuries.


I think there is more smarts and craftiness in Nuge's game than what Turris has been capable of. Just a guess on my part, but I think Nuge's game will not decline that much over that kind of term, especially if we stop trying to push C responsibilities on him and let him play a little more free on the wing with some guys that can handle the board battles for him.

Seems like a lot of concessions to make for a 5-5.5M guy, hehe. I might be a bit resigned to now I think it's a given we extend him, and am looking for silver linings :)



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #787769 is a reply to message #787765 ]
Tue, 15 June 2021 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:59

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:37

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 15 June 2021 13:02

Oilers News and Updates @oilersaccess

Elliotte Friedman: "Edmonton and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are grinding to find common ground."

Kurt Leavins has reported earlier this week that RNH may give up money for term.



I don't mind long term with the Nuge if he's willing to get to that 5-5.5M range. I don't see him declining much over the next 5-6 years.

He probably continues to leave us wanting more as can't help but keep his #1OA history in mind, but at least the performance will better match up with the cap hit. Play him on the frickin wing with Drai though damn it.


As long as he's not on a Kyle Turris trajectory. If we go 6 years on RNH, that takes him to 34, and he has a history of injuries.


I think there is more smarts and craftiness in Nuge's game than what Turris has been capable of. Just a guess on my part, but I think Nuge's game will not decline that much over that kind of term, especially if we stop trying to push C responsibilities on him and let him play a little more free on the wing with some guys that can handle the board battles for him.

Seems like a lot of concessions to make for a 5-5.5M guy, hehe. I might be a bit resigned to now I think it's a given we extend him, and am looking for silver linings :)

If the Oilers could get a decent 3rd line center, then the Oilers could be using only bottom 6 guys for the PK, then leave Nuge to just worry about top 6 duties. Reduce his role.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788099 is a reply to message #786407 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Not sure if this is a final list but if it is no Klefbom injury exception for the expansion draft.

https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/1407105327728836612

If it is final, I hope he is actually well enough that he is expected to play. If he is not, this will be another failure by the org to take advantage of the rules like other teams do.

Glass half full; he is close enough to healthy that we get close to old Klef back as that would be a boost to our D core.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788100 is a reply to message #788099 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 16:46

Not sure if this is a final list but if it is no Klefbom injury exception for the expansion draft.

https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/1407105327728836612

If it is final, I hope he is actually well enough that he is expected to play. If he is not, this will be another failure by the org to take advantage of the rules like other teams do.

Glass half full; he is close enough to healthy that we get close to old Klef back as that would be a boost to our D core.


Ferland is probably the best comparable to Klef. Left last playoffs with an injury. Having concussion issues but nothing definite, possibly could return next year. Don't see any good info out of the Canucks org about what is happening with him. Somehow manages to be exempt.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788202 is a reply to message #788100 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 20:07

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 16:46

Not sure if this is a final list but if it is no Klefbom injury exception for the expansion draft.

https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/1407105327728836612

If it is final, I hope he is actually well enough that he is expected to play. If he is not, this will be another failure by the org to take advantage of the rules like other teams do.

Glass half full; he is close enough to healthy that we get close to old Klef back as that would be a boost to our D core.


Ferland is probably the best comparable to Klef. Left last playoffs with an injury. Having concussion issues but nothing definite, possibly could return next year. Don't see any good info out of the Canucks org about what is happening with him. Somehow manages to be exempt.


So we can prorate James Neal goals, but not Oscar Klefbom games missed? Nevermind the fact he ACTUALLY MISSED 60 games - 56 regular season and 4 playoff games….



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788203 is a reply to message #788202 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 21:29

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 20:07

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 16:46

Not sure if this is a final list but if it is no Klefbom injury exception for the expansion draft.

https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/1407105327728836612

If it is final, I hope he is actually well enough that he is expected to play. If he is not, this will be another failure by the org to take advantage of the rules like other teams do.

Glass half full; he is close enough to healthy that we get close to old Klef back as that would be a boost to our D core.


Ferland is probably the best comparable to Klef. Left last playoffs with an injury. Having concussion issues but nothing definite, possibly could return next year. Don't see any good info out of the Canucks org about what is happening with him. Somehow manages to be exempt.


So we can prorate James Neal goals, but not Oscar Klefbom games missed? Nevermind the fact he ACTUALLY MISSED 60 games - 56 regular season and 4 playoff games….


I thought the games to qualify for this were pro-rated. It's just that there has to be a case that the player may never play again as well? All the players excluded are for sure done, most actually retired. Ferland may be the only exception who is dealing with concussion issues. We've made it clear our org is super hopeful Klef will be back, so there is no way we've set ourselves up to argue Klef may be actually done to take advantage of the situation.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788201 is a reply to message #786407 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 21:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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What’s this crap Stauffer was spewing?? I didn’t hear it, but was reading on twitter from Beer League Heroes(?) that he was hinting at a rift between Tippett/Holland/Pro Scouts or some crap? And it’s likely Tippett won’t be extended and we’ll see Woodcroft here?


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788205 is a reply to message #788201 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 21:21

What’s this crap Stauffer was spewing?? I didn’t hear it, but was reading on twitter from Beer League Heroes(?) that he was hinting at a rift between Tippett/Holland/Pro Scouts or some crap? And it’s likely Tippett won’t be extended and we’ll see Woodcroft here?

Interesting. I'm not sure how to feel about that. Tippett is imperfect, but I have zero faith in the management group's ability to select a better, or even comparable replacement.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788212 is a reply to message #788201 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 21:21

What’s this crap Stauffer was spewing?? I didn’t hear it, but was reading on twitter from Beer League Heroes(?) that he was hinting at a rift between Tippett/Holland/Pro Scouts or some crap? And it’s likely Tippett won’t be extended and we’ll see Woodcroft here?

I have several issues with personnel choices, line construction, AND strategy around Tippet ever since the Chicago series in the bubble. Woodcroft is getting it done in the Bake.... confused2



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788213 is a reply to message #788212 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 24 June 2021 08:04

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 21:21

What’s this crap Stauffer was spewing?? I didn’t hear it, but was reading on twitter from Beer League Heroes(?) that he was hinting at a rift between Tippett/Holland/Pro Scouts or some crap? And it’s likely Tippett won’t be extended and we’ll see Woodcroft here?

I have several issues with personnel choices, line construction, AND strategy around Tippet ever since the Chicago series in the bubble. Woodcroft is getting it done in the Bake.... confused2


Friedman also hinted and then backed off on something he had heard about Tippett interviewing for the Krakken HC position. I would not be upset if Woodcroft came up. Players seem to like him and he is getting results.

I also once hoped Rocky Thompson would have got an opportunity.



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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788214 is a reply to message #788201 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 08:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 21:21

What’s this crap Stauffer was spewing?? I didn’t hear it, but was reading on twitter from Beer League Heroes(?) that he was hinting at a rift between Tippett/Holland/Pro Scouts or some crap? And it’s likely Tippett won’t be extended and we’ll see Woodcroft here?


I saw that there were implications that it was Tippett that wanted Turris? lol. How bizarre if that's true, although that might explain why he had him playing defensive matchups and the PK to start the year, a player that has been bad defensively pretty much his entire career. Maybe Tippett fancies himself a pro scout and tried really hard to prove he was right about Turris. Then the rest of the year was punishing Turris for making him look bad. Not sure why we never tried Turris on the wing in the top 6 at any point as we had 3 useless lines for half the season.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 June 2021 08:30]


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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788216 is a reply to message #788214 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 24 June 2021 08:28

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 21:21

What’s this crap Stauffer was spewing?? I didn’t hear it, but was reading on twitter from Beer League Heroes(?) that he was hinting at a rift between Tippett/Holland/Pro Scouts or some crap? And it’s likely Tippett won’t be extended and we’ll see Woodcroft here?


I saw that there were implications that it was Tippett that wanted Turris? lol. How bizarre if that's true, although that might explain why he had him playing defensive matchups and the PK to start the year, a player that has been bad defensively pretty much his entire career. Maybe Tippett fancies himself a pro scout and tried really hard to prove he was right about Turris. Then the rest of the year was punishing Turris for making him look bad. Not sure why we never tried Turris on the wing in the top 6 at any point as we had 3 useless lines for half the season.

I heard Stauffer talking about the same thing. Mentioned Turris and maybe Tippett wanting him due to familiarity. He mentioned the Petrovic and Manning moves and how pro scouting probably wasn't onboard but Hitchcock probably had a hand in it as he's old school and wanted some big, heavy, cycle stoppers.

It was pretty interesting to hear and I do wonder how much of that goes on behind the scenes. I would assume that rightly or wrongly coaches would have a little say in who the team picks up but how much and can they overrule the scouts? Sounds like it. If pro scouting says one guy and isn't as high on the other but the coach knows the other guy and says "I want him because I know he won't be a pain in the ass" what do you do? Scouts would be the guys watching these guys all the time while the coach would only have limited viewings when they play them and if the guy just had lousy games whenever they played his team, it might leave a wrong bad taste in his mouth. Coaches do say they just coach whoever they are given but do they fully? Human beings have feelings and are going to have biases so if a team brings in a player to do job 1 but the coach plays him in job 2 and the guy doesn't do well, who's fault is that?

Brings up an interesting question. Do you want a coach to just be a robot and play guys in spots however the GM says. So if it doesn't work, well the GM told me too. Or do you want a coach to have his own say and in turn, he might not go along with the guys you either want to bring in or physically can bring in.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 June 2021 08:43]


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 Re: Hot Oil Summer - Predict our moves! [message #788218 is a reply to message #788216 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Definite rumblings out there. Allan Mitchell aka Lowetide just wrote a Woodcroft love article in the Athletic. There appears to be smoke out there.

Since this is a Speculation thread....Dave Manson is universally loved as a D coach and players are giving him tons of credit for their success. Ol'Charlie is going to shut it down soon. He went to Bakersfield to be closer to Josh. If Josh Manson were to get traded away from the Ducks, I don't think you'll see Dave back the following season. So goes the story, Dave Manson has zero interest in returning to the NHL or taking over a full-time HC job in the AHL.



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