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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832511 is a reply to message #832509 ]
Thu, 25 April 2024 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 17:33

I don't totally buy into the worst numbers in the cap era argument.


I mean I’m not spinning anything. He has the worst save % and GAA in the cap era. I agree there are factors that contribute to that, but any way you look at it, he has not been a great playoff goalie.

This year 2 mediocre at best games. Last year in 12 games, from memory I think he had like 2 really good games, a couple decent, and a bunch of terrible ones - he got pulled 4 times plus another 1 or 2 he wasn’t great.

At any rate, here we are. All we can hope for is that he finds the game he had during those win streaks. Or close to it anyway. If he gives us more of what he has so far, we might be able to outscore the problems this round, but no chance we’re hoisting the Cup unless we get more from him (and our D)



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832512 is a reply to message #832506 ]
Thu, 25 April 2024 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 13:34

One additional point. While the Oilers chance-suppression has been relatively good in the first couple of games, it would be nice if the ones they did allow weren't all ten-bell chances. With a goalie who's trying to pick up his confidence, I'd love if we didn't give them a lot of deep slot one-timers and breakaways in the few shots they get.


Pretty much how it goes with this team. We love the huge errors to cancel out 99% of the game being solid.

First goal, no idea why all the forwards are skating full speed to the neutral zone when LA's top line is all attacking our blue line. The forward Bouch tries to pass up to, Foegele, doesn't even look back and just skates off past the LA first line players. The pass banked off the boards and Foegele doesn't even put his stick out for it, he just keeps skating instead of turning to the boards for the puck, and leaves our zone. All our forwards totally out of the picture as LA creates their chance and scores. That's the kind of brain dead gambling that sank us a lot early this season.

Doughty breakaway? Come on, how do you allow that? Skinner's save attempt by just tipping over backwards and lifting his stick off the ice, just as bad of course, on a puck that wasn't shot.

What is this technique called where you have the leg in front of the puck held off the ice, and you angle your stick so the blade is off the ice to perfectly allow the direction the puck is going to go through you as you tip over backwards? His attempt to save that puck slowly going under him appears to be to kick his left leg straight, but still off the ice. Just such an odd play, I suppose he had an guess of what Doughty would do in his head and stuck with it, while he looks directly at the puck going under his stick blade and leg.

https://i.ibb.co/SwK28mz/Skinner.jpg


I think Bouch could try getting his stick onto that throw at the net 100 more times without managing to perfectly make it hover in the air for Kempe to pick his spot with a baseball swing. Brutal luck, same with the miracle Byfield puck deflection directly to Kopitar that is just in the right place at the right time. People complain about Nurse on that one, but Kopitar still had a huge advantage of momentum skating forward. Just 2 miracle bounces on both those goals.

Fiala's goal was one of those backbreakers. Byfield was off to his right. Possible that Ekholm did a perfect screen, but I think Skinner made no effort to follow that play before the shot was taken. I think it went through his left armpit. Just one of those goals where the goalie looks clueless, while also turning into swiss cheese.

Skinner had to be better, as ppl said here many different ways, he is the guy. There is no way we would switch to and stick with Pickard. It's Skinner or bust, even more than last year.

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2024 15:35]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832514 is a reply to message #832512 ]
Thu, 25 April 2024 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 14:25

Adam wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 13:34

One additional point. While the Oilers chance-suppression has been relatively good in the first couple of games, it would be nice if the ones they did allow weren't all ten-bell chances. With a goalie who's trying to pick up his confidence, I'd love if we didn't give them a lot of deep slot one-timers and breakaways in the few shots they get.


Pretty much how it goes with this team. We love the huge errors to cancel out 99% of the game being solid.

First goal, no idea why all the forwards are skating full speed to the neutral zone when LA's top line is all attacking our blue line. The forward Bouch tries to pass up to, Foegele, doesn't even look back and just skates off past the LA first line players. The pass banked off the boards and Foegele doesn't even put his stick out for it, he just keeps skating instead of turning to the boards for the puck, and leaves our zone. All our forwards totally out of the picture as LA creates their chance and scores. That's the kind of brain dead gambling that sank us a lot early this season.

Doughty breakaway? Come on, how do you allow that? Skinner's save attempt by just tipping over backwards and lifting his stick off the ice, just as bad of course, on a puck that wasn't shot.

What is this technique called where you have the leg in front of the puck held off the ice, and you angle your stick so the blade is off the ice to perfectly allow the direction the puck is going to go through you as you tip over backwards? His attempt to save that puck slowly going under him appears to be to kick his left leg straight, but still off the ice. Just such an odd play, I suppose he had an guess of what Doughty would do in his head and stuck with it, while he looks directly at the puck going under his stick blade and leg.

https://i.ibb.co/SwK28mz/Skinner.jpg


I think Bouch could try getting his stick onto that throw at the net 100 more times without managing to perfectly make it hover in the air for Kempe to pick his spot with a baseball swing. Brutal luck, same with the miracle Byfield puck deflection directly to Kopitar that is just in the right place at the right time. People complain about Nurse on that one, but Kopitar still had a huge advantage of momentum skating forward. Just 2 miracle bounces on both those goals.

Fiala's goal was one of those backbreakers. Byfield was off to his right. Possible that Ekholm did a perfect screen, but I think Skinner made no effort to follow that play before the shot was taken. I think it went through his left armpit. Just one of those goals where the goalie looks clueless, while also turning into swiss cheese.

Skinner had to be better, as ppl said here many different ways, he is the guy. There is no way we would switch to and stick with Pickard. It's Skinner or bust, even more than last year.


Totally agree on the 1st goal .. as soon as I saw Foegle skate right by the puck without even looking back I knew it was trouble.. Kempe.. goal. Weak, lazy play by Foegle.. why do you keep skating out of the zone when you know you left the puck behind you?

The Doughty goal had two levels of failure.. RNH is slow to recognize obvious danger.. hesitates.. stops skating on the back check.. loses two steps.. and like you said.. Skinner doing some kind of odd interpretive dance routine on the save.. IMO he has a tendency to make his 6'-4" frame smaller when he tries to close off the holes between his arms and body.. lowers his head.. also drops his glove.

The 4th goal Skinner is just way too slow to set up for the shot in his net.. screened or not..


Without the odd man/breakaway chances the Oil gave the Kings due to lack of effort/dopey-ness .. this would've been a win.


[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2024 15:57]


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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832515 is a reply to message #832500 ]
Thu, 25 April 2024 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Mike wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 08:05

g2k wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 10:40

Jay wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 05:51

g2k wrote on Wed, 24 April 2024 23:43

Mike wrote on Wed, 24 April 2024 23:41

g2k wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 02:29

The Leafs would be leading Boston 3-0 if Stu was a Bruin.

Gonna take a miracle.


The answer, quite clearly is Calvin Pickard.

Better save % this year. Better GAA this year. Drafted a round earlier, so obviously way better. Born right here in Moncton. And on Canada Day! He’s the guy that will bring the Cup back to Canada.

Mostly tongue in cheek, but honestly, I’d give him a shot in game 3. Skinner with .892 in game 1, and then .808 tonight. He did make a few good stops game 1, but he was only ok.

I’m not there yet. I don’t think just sliding him into 1 game right now is the answer. I think that would crater Skinners confidence completely.

He needs to be a star Friday night.

This is the exact same conversation we had last year. Do you leave Skinner in to continue to not make a save and let in momentum killing goals because he's been designated the starter or do you play the other guy and see if you can get a save.

Last year they went back to him again and again to maintain his confidence (or something) and the bigger the moment got the worse the goaltending got.

We already know how this plays out with Skinner. I'd go to Pickard.


Yeah, if I recall correctly Woody pulled him often, but would then trot him back out there the next game.


Boston has done goaltending by committee all year and apparently into the playoffs as well with 2 guys playing well above either Oilers goalie.

Pickard and Skinner both posted similar win% this year, but Pickard had both a better GAA (2.45 vs 2.62) and a better Save % (.909 vs .905)

I am a Skinner supporter, and he made a few awesome saves in game 1, but other than starting a lot more games than his counterpart, there's nothing about his performance this season compared to Pickard that should guarantee him the start.

I'd go with Pickard. Win and you stay in. I just don't see that much of a drop off, and I truly believe that going back to Skinner in game 6 cost us that series. Would hate to see them do it again this year.


Pickard had a lot more easy matchups, which might explain his sv% being a few points higher. He looks pretty chaotic in net (a la Campbell) whereas Skinner has some control. Think we are stuck with Stu.

I believe he can be better, but I do wonder if Rodrigue could have taken some reigns had we given him a chance as backup.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832516 is a reply to message #832515 ]
Thu, 25 April 2024 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 16:45

Mike wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 08:05

g2k wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 10:40

Jay wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 05:51

g2k wrote on Wed, 24 April 2024 23:43

Mike wrote on Wed, 24 April 2024 23:41

g2k wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 02:29

The Leafs would be leading Boston 3-0 if Stu was a Bruin.

Gonna take a miracle.


The answer, quite clearly is Calvin Pickard.

Better save % this year. Better GAA this year. Drafted a round earlier, so obviously way better. Born right here in Moncton. And on Canada Day! He’s the guy that will bring the Cup back to Canada.

Mostly tongue in cheek, but honestly, I’d give him a shot in game 3. Skinner with .892 in game 1, and then .808 tonight. He did make a few good stops game 1, but he was only ok.

I’m not there yet. I don’t think just sliding him into 1 game right now is the answer. I think that would crater Skinners confidence completely.

He needs to be a star Friday night.

This is the exact same conversation we had last year. Do you leave Skinner in to continue to not make a save and let in momentum killing goals because he's been designated the starter or do you play the other guy and see if you can get a save.

Last year they went back to him again and again to maintain his confidence (or something) and the bigger the moment got the worse the goaltending got.

We already know how this plays out with Skinner. I'd go to Pickard.


Yeah, if I recall correctly Woody pulled him often, but would then trot him back out there the next game.


Boston has done goaltending by committee all year and apparently into the playoffs as well with 2 guys playing well above either Oilers goalie.

Pickard and Skinner both posted similar win% this year, but Pickard had both a better GAA (2.45 vs 2.62) and a better Save % (.909 vs .905)

I am a Skinner supporter, and he made a few awesome saves in game 1, but other than starting a lot more games than his counterpart, there's nothing about his performance this season compared to Pickard that should guarantee him the start.

I'd go with Pickard. Win and you stay in. I just don't see that much of a drop off, and I truly believe that going back to Skinner in game 6 cost us that series. Would hate to see them do it again this year.


Pickard had a lot more easy matchups, which might explain his sv% being a few points higher. He looks pretty chaotic in net (a la Campbell) whereas Skinner has some control. Think we are stuck with Stu.

I believe he can be better, but I do wonder if Rodrigue could have taken some reigns had we given him a chance as backup.

We talked this to death during and after the winning streak. They were overplaying Skinner and had no idea what the back up plan would look like. They should have played Pickard more, called up Rodrigue for a look, and traded for a vet. They didn't, but should have. Fortunately they were able to rest Skinner more over the last month so he shouldn't be tired (even though young players tend to burn out over 82+ games as they adjust to the professional grind). The worry is now that Skinner and the defense might just not be good enough. Only one way to find out. Playoffs are fun, aren't they?



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832517 is a reply to message #832510 ]
Thu, 25 April 2024 22:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 15:12

Nurse.. as with everyone else, has to play mistake free, along with highest level of situational awareness, in order to progress through to the Cup final.. they all need to be much better.



I will say, "mistake-free" isn't a reasonable expectation for any hockey player. I think it's become part of the lexicon while watching and judging hockey the last several years, but the reality is that it's a very fast game, and it's played by real people, not machines. Mistakes are going to happen all over the ice every game.

You hope guys aren't making the same mistakes over and over, but they're all going to make some mistakes out there.

I do think that was a ridiculous miracle bounce. Maybe Nurse could have played it better, but for a shot to just hit off a guy right on to the stick of a guy with a full head of steam? That's some awful luck.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832518 is a reply to message #832517 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Adam wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 21:33

..I do think that was a ridiculous miracle bounce. Maybe Nurse could have played it better, but for a shot to just hit off a guy right on to the stick of a guy with a full head of steam? That's some awful luck.



That's where situational awareness comes in.. anticipate the dangerous man.. and neutralize the danger.... guys like Ekholm do it routinely.. some don't.. you have to anticipate unexpected bounces will happen so you take the open man regardless of where the puck is or isn't.
As soon as the puck gets shot by the LA defenseman back in his zone.. Nurse should have already gone to tie up Kopitar, get his stick/body on him.. he wound up watching the puck.. an unexpected deflection off Byfield.. did a bad pivot.. lost 2 steps.. and that's all she wrote..
Ceci had the right idea.. he had Byfield tied up along the boards Byfield wasn't going to get into the play no matter what ..

Not just Nurse.. Oilers have been giving up odd man rushes all year, but Nurse is supposed to be the reliable shut-down D-man..

Staples had a good discussion about Nurse and "mistakes-leading-to-odd-man-rushes-against" stats .. here;
https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /edmonton-oilers-crushed-in-ot-by-the-same-old-thing-that-cr ushed-them-all-year



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Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832520 is a reply to message #832515 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 06:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 19:45

Pickard had a lot more easy matchups, which might explain his sv% being a few points higher.


You're 100% right of course. That is the biggest difference. He had some solid outings against a few good clubs, but the bulk of his good games were against bottom feeders.

I really don't want to see him or anyone else in net until we hoist the Cup, but I just don't want to wait until it's too late. Like last year, as much as I hate Campbell's game, I 100% would have started him game 6.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832521 is a reply to message #832520 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 06:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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Mike wrote on Fri, 26 April 2024 06:08

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 19:45

Pickard had a lot more easy matchups, which might explain his sv% being a few points higher.


You're 100% right of course. That is the biggest difference. He had some solid outings against a few good clubs, but the bulk of his good games were against bottom feeders.

I really don't want to see him or anyone else in net until we hoist the Cup, but I just don't want to wait until it's too late. Like last year, as much as I hate Campbell's game, I 100% would have started him game 6.

It wasn't just game 6 though. Skinner was terrible the entire playoffs. They don't get out of round 1 without Campbell.

Them at the start of the year when the pressure was high again he was just as bad if not worse than Campbell but he managed to stick around.

Skinner has been anointed the starter in large part based on his likeability from the media and the usual oiler way of deciding at some point that a player is x and then assuming they'll just become that thing.

Hope I'm wrong but this trend of playing worse the higher the stakes isn't going away. I think we see Picard before this run is over.




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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832524 is a reply to message #832508 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Mike wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 14:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 16:50

Mike wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 12:45

Went to check for fun - Skinner is statistically the worst playoff goalie ever in the cap era.

Of the 69 goalies that have played as much or more than him (14GP) since 2006, he ranks dead last in save % and GAA.

Skinner: .879, 3.81
Lehtonen: .887, 3.30

Let's hope he moves up that list quickly.



You really don't like Skinner do you?

He's got 14 career starts. That's an extremely small sample size and that include a bunch of goals going off guys skates and in which I am guessing you blame him for too?

By the way, Hellebuyck who might win the vezina this year is .870 and 5.04 after 2 games.


And Helleybuyck is .914 and 2.70 for his career in the playoffs. If you don’t see the difference you’re being disingenuous at best.

Don’t like Skinner? I was pumping his tires 2 years ago before anyone else when we were still trotting out Koskinen and Grandpa Smith. I liked him well enough, but I have concerns about his playoff play. Being worst ever in the cap era I think is cause for concern.

I hope he finds the level he had during those winning streaks - THAT guy I think can win us a Cup.


I don't know how I am being disingenuous. You listed off his stats since 2006 stating Skinner is one of the worst playoff goalies in 18 years. Listing off Hellebuyck isn't me comparing the 2 goalie for goalie, it's stating the fact that really good goalies in short spurts, sometimes their stats don't look great for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean they are bad goalies or incapable of performing.

The Kings got 3 fluke goals in game 1. If those don't happen, Skinners stats look a lot better. So in my opinion, jumping the gun and questioning the goalie after 2 games I think is an overreaction.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832526 is a reply to message #832510 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 15:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 April 2024 22:13

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 24 April 2024 23:08

Classic Nurse.


It was the other D-man having a shoving match at the redline when the goal went in that was the issue.


I think I saw something different.. The LA d-man shot the puck up from the LA zone to Byfield at center ice.. Ceci had Byfield checked.. puck deflects off Byfield.. Nurse is asleep at the wheel (great band!) .. he has initial position on Kopitar and should be able to check him .. but is caught flat footed (?) due to (IMHO) lack of situational awareness, and too slow to react, which is a problem of his (my complaint) .. maybe he has a mechanical weakness pivoting to his right (?) .. but he's one of the Oilers top 2 shutdown D-men.. can't happen.. so often.. One (1) mistake can cost you a playoff series.. and a Stanley Cup (ask Steve Smith! .. although Fuhr should've had it!) .. Nurse.. as with everyone else, has to play mistake free, along with highest level of situational awareness, in order to progress through to the Cup final.. they all need to be much better.






I agree with 95% of this. I have been hard on Ceci a lot this year but he is making the exact right play there. Blaming him for this goal is just a silly take.
While I agree that Nurse could have made a better play it is a really tough read. I dont think anyone expected that puck to come out of the boards or be redirected by Byfield right to Kopitar.
When the puck side D pinches off a long pass the other D needs to cheat to the middle and the weak side winger needs to be coming back to cover the trailer.
This is where Nurse could have done better in that as soon as the long pass to center was made, Ceci steps up, Nurse cheats over. If he does that a quarter second earlier he is probably able to make a play on the puck or angle Kopitar to a worse shooting angle.

IMO Ceci made the right play and Nurse was a little late on his read. Not every goal has to have a player drawn and quartered and this is one of them. I thought Nurse had a decent game overall.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832534 is a reply to message #832526 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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PlusOne wrote on Fri, 26 April 2024 10:51

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 15:12

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 24 April 2024 22:13

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 24 April 2024 23:08

Classic Nurse.


It was the other D-man having a shoving match at the redline when the goal went in that was the issue.


I think I saw something different.. The LA d-man shot the puck up from the LA zone to Byfield at center ice.. Ceci had Byfield checked.. puck deflects off Byfield.. Nurse is asleep at the wheel (great band!) .. he has initial position on Kopitar and should be able to check him .. but is caught flat footed (?) due to (IMHO) lack of situational awareness, and too slow to react, which is a problem of his (my complaint) .. maybe he has a mechanical weakness pivoting to his right (?) .. but he's one of the Oilers top 2 shutdown D-men.. can't happen.. so often.. One (1) mistake can cost you a playoff series.. and a Stanley Cup (ask Steve Smith! .. although Fuhr should've had it!) .. Nurse.. as with everyone else, has to play mistake free, along with highest level of situational awareness, in order to progress through to the Cup final.. they all need to be much better.






I agree with 95% of this. I have been hard on Ceci a lot this year but he is making the exact right play there. Blaming him for this goal is just a silly take.
While I agree that Nurse could have made a better play it is a really tough read. I dont think anyone expected that puck to come out of the boards or be redirected by Byfield right to Kopitar.
When the puck side D pinches off a long pass the other D needs to cheat to the middle and the weak side winger needs to be coming back to cover the trailer.
This is where Nurse could have done better in that as soon as the long pass to center was made, Ceci steps up, Nurse cheats over. If he does that a quarter second earlier he is probably able to make a play on the puck or angle Kopitar to a worse shooting angle.

IMO Ceci made the right play and Nurse was a little late on his read. Not every goal has to have a player drawn and quartered and this is one of them. I thought Nurse had a decent game overall.



Yeah, nothing about that goal makes me unhappy. It was just the icing on the cake for a ridiculous game. Kopitar is just skating down the middle so he can put pressure on Nurse for an icing. And next thing you know the puck is right on his stick.

Hope no oilers are reading too much into it, aside from they obviously need to up their game a bit more and be more aware when LA has their only good line out on the ice. No more flying the zone like dopes against Kopitar's line please.

Skinner, everyone will be laser focused on him now. We know what he looks like when his confidence has crashed. His 2nd efforts just vanish, he starts getting very stationary in net. Don't know what you even do if that happens though. We probably don't play Pickard until we are down in an elimination game.



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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832535 is a reply to message #832524 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 April 2024 10:31

Mike wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 14:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 16:50

Mike wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 12:45

Went to check for fun - Skinner is statistically the worst playoff goalie ever in the cap era.

Of the 69 goalies that have played as much or more than him (14GP) since 2006, he ranks dead last in save % and GAA.

Skinner: .879, 3.81
Lehtonen: .887, 3.30

Let's hope he moves up that list quickly.



You really don't like Skinner do you?

He's got 14 career starts. That's an extremely small sample size and that include a bunch of goals going off guys skates and in which I am guessing you blame him for too?

By the way, Hellebuyck who might win the vezina this year is .870 and 5.04 after 2 games.


And Helleybuyck is .914 and 2.70 for his career in the playoffs. If you don’t see the difference you’re being disingenuous at best.

Don’t like Skinner? I was pumping his tires 2 years ago before anyone else when we were still trotting out Koskinen and Grandpa Smith. I liked him well enough, but I have concerns about his playoff play. Being worst ever in the cap era I think is cause for concern.

I hope he finds the level he had during those winning streaks - THAT guy I think can win us a Cup.


I don't know how I am being disingenuous. You listed off his stats since 2006 stating Skinner is one of the worst playoff goalies in 18 years. Listing off Hellebuyck isn't me comparing the 2 goalie for goalie, it's stating the fact that really good goalies in short spurts, sometimes their stats don't look great for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean they are bad goalies or incapable of performing.

The Kings got 3 fluke goals in game 1. If those don't happen, Skinners stats look a lot better. So in my opinion, jumping the gun and questioning the goalie after 2 games I think is an overreaction.


The difference between Hellebuyck and Skinner to this point is that Hellebuyck's got a history of playing well in the post-season, and Skinner has not. If you look at his entire sample size there's more bad games than even average games right now, and that's not good enough.

Yes, he's had some bad bounces in the first couple of games, but good goalies come up with hard saves a lot of the time. At BARE MINIMUM, to be successful we need Skinner to be above .900 and right now he's not even close. On Wednesday, the Kings had three goals on their first 7 shots. While there were some high skill plays there and a little bit of puck luck, ideally, you'd like your goalie to have one or two of those. And if he does, that's the game - we win and we're up 2-0.

It's early. We shouldn't panic. But we also shouldn't put our head in the sand either and pretend that we didn't take a massive stupid risk by not bolstering the goaltending position this year.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832536 is a reply to message #832535 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 26 April 2024 13:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 April 2024 10:31

Mike wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 14:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 16:50

Mike wrote on Thu, 25 April 2024 12:45

Went to check for fun - Skinner is statistically the worst playoff goalie ever in the cap era.

Of the 69 goalies that have played as much or more than him (14GP) since 2006, he ranks dead last in save % and GAA.

Skinner: .879, 3.81
Lehtonen: .887, 3.30

Let's hope he moves up that list quickly.



You really don't like Skinner do you?

He's got 14 career starts. That's an extremely small sample size and that include a bunch of goals going off guys skates and in which I am guessing you blame him for too?

By the way, Hellebuyck who might win the vezina this year is .870 and 5.04 after 2 games.


And Helleybuyck is .914 and 2.70 for his career in the playoffs. If you don’t see the difference you’re being disingenuous at best.

Don’t like Skinner? I was pumping his tires 2 years ago before anyone else when we were still trotting out Koskinen and Grandpa Smith. I liked him well enough, but I have concerns about his playoff play. Being worst ever in the cap era I think is cause for concern.

I hope he finds the level he had during those winning streaks - THAT guy I think can win us a Cup.


I don't know how I am being disingenuous. You listed off his stats since 2006 stating Skinner is one of the worst playoff goalies in 18 years. Listing off Hellebuyck isn't me comparing the 2 goalie for goalie, it's stating the fact that really good goalies in short spurts, sometimes their stats don't look great for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean they are bad goalies or incapable of performing.

The Kings got 3 fluke goals in game 1. If those don't happen, Skinners stats look a lot better. So in my opinion, jumping the gun and questioning the goalie after 2 games I think is an overreaction.


The difference between Hellebuyck and Skinner to this point is that Hellebuyck's got a history of playing well in the post-season, and Skinner has not. If you look at his entire sample size there's more bad games than even average games right now, and that's not good enough.

Yes, he's had some bad bounces in the first couple of games, but good goalies come up with hard saves a lot of the time. At BARE MINIMUM, to be successful we need Skinner to be above .900 and right now he's not even close. On Wednesday, the Kings had three goals on their first 7 shots. While there were some high skill plays there and a little bit of puck luck, ideally, you'd like your goalie to have one or two of those. And if he does, that's the game - we win and we're up 2-0.

It's early. We shouldn't panic. But we also shouldn't put our head in the sand either and pretend that we didn't take a massive stupid risk by not bolstering the goaltending position this year.

I'm not going to respond after this because I see it as a waste of my time. Probably at least half the league has question marks in goal. So anytime anyone complains about the Oilers "not bolstering their goaltending" I start to question them if they are saying anything logical or just complaining to complain because I believe there are certain fans in this market that prefer just to complain about something. Probably PTSD from the past. There wasn't a ton of goalies available. Some of the pending UFA's got resigned by their teams. Others weren't even upgrades on what the Oilers had. Did I want Allen who in my opinion is not an upgrade on Skinner, debatable if he is better than Pickard and has another year on his contract. Hell freaking no!! I think spending assets on a goalie who isn't any better just swap out name bars to make some fans feel better would have been stupid.

Plus most of the evidence people use about Skinner are based on the 12 games he played last year as a rookie goalie. Was he great? No, was he awful? No. Generally, rookies in their first playoffs don't play their best hockey, it's even way more likely that a rookie goalie in his first playoff does well. I would think fans should probably give Skinner more than 2 games this year to decide if he can do it or not.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 April 2024 13:18]


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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #2) [message #832539 is a reply to message #832536 ]
Fri, 26 April 2024 13:48 Go to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6919
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 April 2024 13:14


I'm not going to respond after this because I see it as a waste of my time. Probably at least half the league has question marks in goal. So anytime anyone complains about the Oilers "not bolstering their goaltending" I start to question them if they are saying anything logical or just complaining to complain because I believe there are certain fans in this market that prefer just to complain about something. Probably PTSD from the past. There wasn't a ton of goalies available. Some of the pending UFA's got resigned by their teams. Others weren't even upgrades on what the Oilers had. Did I want Allen who in my opinion is not an upgrade on Skinner, debatable if he is better than Pickard and has another year on his contract. Hell freaking no!! I think spending assets on a goalie who isn't any better just swap out name bars to make some fans feel better would have been stupid.

Plus most of the evidence people use about Skinner are based on the 12 games he played last year as a rookie goalie. Was he great? No, was he awful? No. Generally, rookies in their first playoffs don't play their best hockey, it's even way more likely that a rookie goalie in his first playoff does well. I would think fans should probably give Skinner more than 2 games this year to decide if he can do it or not.


I don't think it's fair to say that generally goalies don't do well in their first playoffs. Ken Dryden won a Cup as a rookie goalie. So did Patrick Roy. Hextall was a rookie when he took the Conn Smythe in 1987. Cam Ward was a rookie in 2006 when he took the Conn Smythe and the Stanley Cup. Andy Moog had just 7 NHL regular season games to his name when he swept the best-in-the-league Canadiens in 1981. More recently Matt Murray was a rookie when he won the Cup. Binnington had just 32 NHL appearances and never played a NHL playoff game before his Cup-winning season.

While there is definitely high pressure on a rookie goalie to backstop a contender through the playoffs, there's a lot of cases where players did just fine in rising to the occasion.

As for whether Skinner was awful last year, he got pulled in HALF the games in the second round, plus another game in the first round. He's been above .900 in only 5 of his 14 playoff appearances and there is literally not a single goalie in the entire salary cap era to play 14 or more playoff games and have as bad numbers on both GAA and Sv%. That's not just "not playing his best hockey". The absolute worst we've seen from Skinner has come in the post-season.

That's not to say he's a lost cause. He better not be, because the Oilers have firmly hitched their wagon to him. But we need him to be much, MUCH better to have a chance. And if he isn't able to rise to the occasion? Well, remember last summer when I said now would be a great chance to trade the Calder nominee and get someone better? You're not going to be able to get anything for him if he flames out a second time, and the team will have a major issue for the next GM, with two goalies who can't get the job done tying up over $6MM in cap space for the next couple of years.

The problem is that our margin of error here is pretty small. If we lose two years because we gambled twice on the same bad goalies, then we've potentially cost us Draisaitl and McDavid. If they were to leave? Then we're basically back to being the Buffalo Sabres again and we may as well promote the waterboy to general manager and bring back the ghost of Pat Quinn to coach.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 April 2024 14:40]


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