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 Speculation » Would you take a "stab" at MAF?
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 Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765920]
Tue, 25 August 2020 10:31 Go to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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The Flower or at least his agent appears to be done with the Knights organization.

https://assets-cms.thescore.com/uploads/image/file/414835/Screen_Shot_2020-08-22_at_6.09.05_PM.jpg?ts=1598139645

Myself? I'd be all over this if the Knights were to retain a couple million of the 7M salary. Can't see the asking price being enormous since Fluery's play has dropped a lot in the past few years and their is obvious friction between the two camps.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765921 is a reply to message #765920 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2020 10:39]


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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765922 is a reply to message #765921 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I wouldn't touch Fleury. He will be 36 in November. He has 2 yrs left at 7 mill. WAY too much money for a goalie in general in my books. WAY WAY too much money for a 36 yr old.


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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765923 is a reply to message #765921 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765926 is a reply to message #765923 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korpisalo played the playoffs and makes 2.8. Can't protect both. If Korpisalo is your guy, would they swap Merzlikins for Koskinen? Close to the same cap hit. They get a big Fin who is more than capable of giving you quality starts in a 1B situation and if you lose him to the expansion draft. Oh well.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?

For teams with a potential goalie problem coming up for the expansion draft, you might get more in trade now than wait till the last minute when you have a gun to your head.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 August 2020 11:14]


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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765930 is a reply to message #765926 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765932 is a reply to message #765930 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.


I like the Russians in New York.

I think Korpisalo is the one most likely to get dealt by Columbus but either would be good. Pittsburgh has a decision to make on their goalie too.

Binnington himself could be available, or Jake Allen. Not super sold on Allen, but he's better than what we have.

There's a lot of options and the fact that people are possibly going to lose a goalie next year with the expansion draft may see some teams move some of these guys now so they get something for them.

As for Fleury, I'll echo some of the other comments here. He's getting too old and he's too expensive. He's not close to my first choice. For me to take him, I'd have to strike out on a bunch of these other options and then also have Vegas keep a significant amount of his salary...and likely I'd want to know that I could flush Koskinen too - either to another team or to Europe. We just can't have $9-10MM tied up in goalies, neither of whom are stars.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765935 is a reply to message #765932 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:38

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.


I like the Russians in New York.

I think Korpisalo is the one most likely to get dealt by Columbus but either would be good. Pittsburgh has a decision to make on their goalie too.

Binnington himself could be available, or Jake Allen. Not super sold on Allen, but he's better than what we have.

There's a lot of options and the fact that people are possibly going to lose a goalie next year with the expansion draft may see some teams move some of these guys now so they get something for them.

As for Fleury, I'll echo some of the other comments here. He's getting too old and he's too expensive. He's not close to my first choice. For me to take him, I'd have to strike out on a bunch of these other options and then also have Vegas keep a significant amount of his salary...and likely I'd want to know that I could flush Koskinen too - either to another team or to Europe. We just can't have $9-10MM tied up in goalies, neither of whom are stars.

Allen just has trouble in the playoffs. That wouldn’t be an issue here.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765934 is a reply to message #765930 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765954 is a reply to message #765934 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765956 is a reply to message #765954 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765957 is a reply to message #765956 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.


Have you ever worked with someone who retired early? I have. The job was no longer what it used to be. Felt displaced. I have a few people leave my workforce well before they attained their full pension and these were not millionaires. They did find jobs they loved after they left and all seem to be loving their new lives.

I am not saying he will retire, But the King doesn't seem like the type of guy to rotate in and out of the pressbox or ride the pine just to collect some cheques in yet another partial, confusing season. He is revered in NYC and it's likely his forever home. If he retires he can just 'jam' more.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765958 is a reply to message #765957 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
Messages: 17050
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.


Have you ever worked with someone who retired early? I have. The job was no longer what it used to be. Felt displaced. I have a few people leave my workforce well before they attained their full pension and these were not millionaires. They did find jobs they loved after they left and all seem to be loving their new lives.

I am not saying he will retire, But the King doesn't seem like the type of guy to rotate in and out of the pressbox or ride the pine just to collect some cheques in yet another partial, confusing season. He is revered in NYC and it's likely his forever home. If he retires he can just 'jam' more.



Yeah, from everything I've seen of Lundqvist, I could definitely see him retiring early if he felt he was just going to sit in the pressbox and watch the young guys play all year. I don't think he has any interest in playing for any other team even if the contract could be moved (which is a tall order - Rangers would have to keep half the salary, you'd think).

Georgiev is RFA this year. It will be really interesting to see what he gets. He played the most of the three last year with 34 appearances and 32 starts. Shersterkin's numbers are better, but a much smaller sample size. 10-2 behind a pretty mediocre team though...

Georgiev was the only one not to get a start in the playoffs, so maybe that's a tell on odd man out?

Honestly, either of them are better than Koskinen/Smith, so whatever it takes.





"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765959 is a reply to message #765958 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2348
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:52

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.


Have you ever worked with someone who retired early? I have. The job was no longer what it used to be. Felt displaced. I have a few people leave my workforce well before they attained their full pension and these were not millionaires. They did find jobs they loved after they left and all seem to be loving their new lives.

I am not saying he will retire, But the King doesn't seem like the type of guy to rotate in and out of the pressbox or ride the pine just to collect some cheques in yet another partial, confusing season. He is revered in NYC and it's likely his forever home. If he retires he can just 'jam' more.



Yeah, from everything I've seen of Lundqvist, I could definitely see him retiring early if he felt he was just going to sit in the pressbox and watch the young guys play all year. I don't think he has any interest in playing for any other team even if the contract could be moved (which is a tall order - Rangers would have to keep half the salary, you'd think).

Georgiev is RFA this year. It will be really interesting to see what he gets. He played the most of the three last year with 34 appearances and 32 starts. Shersterkin's numbers are better, but a much smaller sample size. 10-2 behind a pretty mediocre team though...

Georgiev was the only one not to get a start in the playoffs, so maybe that's a tell on odd man out?

Honestly, either of them are better than Koskinen/Smith, so whatever it takes.





I would be happy with either. I am thinking there will be a lot of phone calls from a lot of GM's.

Haha, I wonder if Slats still has some influence? Talbot deal looked great until it didn't.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765961 is a reply to message #765959 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
Messages: 17050
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 11:37

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:52

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.


Have you ever worked with someone who retired early? I have. The job was no longer what it used to be. Felt displaced. I have a few people leave my workforce well before they attained their full pension and these were not millionaires. They did find jobs they loved after they left and all seem to be loving their new lives.

I am not saying he will retire, But the King doesn't seem like the type of guy to rotate in and out of the pressbox or ride the pine just to collect some cheques in yet another partial, confusing season. He is revered in NYC and it's likely his forever home. If he retires he can just 'jam' more.



Yeah, from everything I've seen of Lundqvist, I could definitely see him retiring early if he felt he was just going to sit in the pressbox and watch the young guys play all year. I don't think he has any interest in playing for any other team even if the contract could be moved (which is a tall order - Rangers would have to keep half the salary, you'd think).

Georgiev is RFA this year. It will be really interesting to see what he gets. He played the most of the three last year with 34 appearances and 32 starts. Shersterkin's numbers are better, but a much smaller sample size. 10-2 behind a pretty mediocre team though...

Georgiev was the only one not to get a start in the playoffs, so maybe that's a tell on odd man out?

Honestly, either of them are better than Koskinen/Smith, so whatever it takes.





I would be happy with either. I am thinking there will be a lot of phone calls from a lot of GM's.

Haha, I wonder if Slats still has some influence? Talbot deal looked great until it didn't.


It was great - he's still had shown he's a useful 'tender this year, and the Oilers got a lot of games out of him while he was here.

I think he was overplayed here, which led to some level of burn-out. It is interesting to see Brossoit do as well as he has since he left here. I do think there's a real organizational weak spot around goaltending that really needs to be addressed at some point.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765962 is a reply to message #765961 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 7261
Registered: January 2016

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:07

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 11:37

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:52

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.


Have you ever worked with someone who retired early? I have. The job was no longer what it used to be. Felt displaced. I have a few people leave my workforce well before they attained their full pension and these were not millionaires. They did find jobs they loved after they left and all seem to be loving their new lives.

I am not saying he will retire, But the King doesn't seem like the type of guy to rotate in and out of the pressbox or ride the pine just to collect some cheques in yet another partial, confusing season. He is revered in NYC and it's likely his forever home. If he retires he can just 'jam' more.



Yeah, from everything I've seen of Lundqvist, I could definitely see him retiring early if he felt he was just going to sit in the pressbox and watch the young guys play all year. I don't think he has any interest in playing for any other team even if the contract could be moved (which is a tall order - Rangers would have to keep half the salary, you'd think).

Georgiev is RFA this year. It will be really interesting to see what he gets. He played the most of the three last year with 34 appearances and 32 starts. Shersterkin's numbers are better, but a much smaller sample size. 10-2 behind a pretty mediocre team though...

Georgiev was the only one not to get a start in the playoffs, so maybe that's a tell on odd man out?

Honestly, either of them are better than Koskinen/Smith, so whatever it takes.





I would be happy with either. I am thinking there will be a lot of phone calls from a lot of GM's.

Haha, I wonder if Slats still has some influence? Talbot deal looked great until it didn't.


It was great - he's still had shown he's a useful 'tender this year, and the Oilers got a lot of games out of him while he was here.

I think he was overplayed here, which led to some level of burn-out. It is interesting to see Brossoit do as well as he has since he left here. I do think there's a real organizational weak spot around goaltending that really needs to be addressed at some point.

I think Talbot was overplayed in the first few years but what's his excuse for his last season as an Oiler? He played 31 games that year with the Oilers so he couldn't have been that tired given Koskinen played a fair bit. Right out of the gate Talbot was hit or miss and he lost his job to a unknown out of the KHL. Fatigue can't be used as the reason he started the season poorly and then as the season when on and they split the games, he couldn't have been tired. I don't think you can blame the defense because behind the same guys and the same system Koskinen was significantly better that year.

I do think and I mentioned it when he was an Oiler and started having problems, is I wonder if Talbot was a bit of a equipment goalie. Right after the 16 playoff year, the NHL tweaked goalie gear and immediately Talbot struggled. Eventually he leveled off late in that 17-18 season. The the league tweaked the gear again and for the 18-19 season he struggled and ultimately lost his job.

I think Talbot showed over the bulk of his time with the Oilers is that he can be a good back up capable of playing long stretches of games well but he's not a true starter. He's better suited to be split time with a guy who's equal to him.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765963 is a reply to message #765962 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 3643
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

3 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:26

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:07

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 11:37

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:52

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.


Have you ever worked with someone who retired early? I have. The job was no longer what it used to be. Felt displaced. I have a few people leave my workforce well before they attained their full pension and these were not millionaires. They did find jobs they loved after they left and all seem to be loving their new lives.

I am not saying he will retire, But the King doesn't seem like the type of guy to rotate in and out of the pressbox or ride the pine just to collect some cheques in yet another partial, confusing season. He is revered in NYC and it's likely his forever home. If he retires he can just 'jam' more.



Yeah, from everything I've seen of Lundqvist, I could definitely see him retiring early if he felt he was just going to sit in the pressbox and watch the young guys play all year. I don't think he has any interest in playing for any other team even if the contract could be moved (which is a tall order - Rangers would have to keep half the salary, you'd think).

Georgiev is RFA this year. It will be really interesting to see what he gets. He played the most of the three last year with 34 appearances and 32 starts. Shersterkin's numbers are better, but a much smaller sample size. 10-2 behind a pretty mediocre team though...

Georgiev was the only one not to get a start in the playoffs, so maybe that's a tell on odd man out?

Honestly, either of them are better than Koskinen/Smith, so whatever it takes.





I would be happy with either. I am thinking there will be a lot of phone calls from a lot of GM's.

Haha, I wonder if Slats still has some influence? Talbot deal looked great until it didn't.


It was great - he's still had shown he's a useful 'tender this year, and the Oilers got a lot of games out of him while he was here.

I think he was overplayed here, which led to some level of burn-out. It is interesting to see Brossoit do as well as he has since he left here. I do think there's a real organizational weak spot around goaltending that really needs to be addressed at some point.

I think Talbot was overplayed in the first few years but what's his excuse for his last season as an Oiler? He played 31 games that year with the Oilers so he couldn't have been that tired given Koskinen played a fair bit. Right out of the gate Talbot was hit or miss and he lost his job to a unknown out of the KHL. Fatigue can't be used as the reason he started the season poorly and then as the season when on and they split the games, he couldn't have been tired. I don't think you can blame the defense because behind the same guys and the same system Koskinen was significantly better that year.

I do think and I mentioned it when he was an Oiler and started having problems, is I wonder if Talbot was a bit of a equipment goalie. Right after the 16 playoff year, the NHL tweaked goalie gear and immediately Talbot struggled. Eventually he leveled off late in that 17-18 season. The the league tweaked the gear again and for the 18-19 season he struggled and ultimately lost his job.

I think Talbot showed over the bulk of his time with the Oilers is that he can be a good back up capable of playing long stretches of games well but he's not a true starter. He's better suited to be split time with a guy who's equal to him.

Talbot letting in goals on the first shot was an awful habit he developed. To be fair though, it was often as much about being left high and dry by the D as it was him missing an easy stop. I would have stuck with him versus the guys we brought in, and it’s worth noting he made it further in the playoffs than we did. He might not be elite but he’s good. Our habit of jumping ship on goalies has burned us more than once.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765964 is a reply to message #765963 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:33

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:26

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:07

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 11:37

Adam wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:52

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.


Have you ever worked with someone who retired early? I have. The job was no longer what it used to be. Felt displaced. I have a few people leave my workforce well before they attained their full pension and these were not millionaires. They did find jobs they loved after they left and all seem to be loving their new lives.

I am not saying he will retire, But the King doesn't seem like the type of guy to rotate in and out of the pressbox or ride the pine just to collect some cheques in yet another partial, confusing season. He is revered in NYC and it's likely his forever home. If he retires he can just 'jam' more.



Yeah, from everything I've seen of Lundqvist, I could definitely see him retiring early if he felt he was just going to sit in the pressbox and watch the young guys play all year. I don't think he has any interest in playing for any other team even if the contract could be moved (which is a tall order - Rangers would have to keep half the salary, you'd think).

Georgiev is RFA this year. It will be really interesting to see what he gets. He played the most of the three last year with 34 appearances and 32 starts. Shersterkin's numbers are better, but a much smaller sample size. 10-2 behind a pretty mediocre team though...

Georgiev was the only one not to get a start in the playoffs, so maybe that's a tell on odd man out?

Honestly, either of them are better than Koskinen/Smith, so whatever it takes.





I would be happy with either. I am thinking there will be a lot of phone calls from a lot of GM's.

Haha, I wonder if Slats still has some influence? Talbot deal looked great until it didn't.


It was great - he's still had shown he's a useful 'tender this year, and the Oilers got a lot of games out of him while he was here.

I think he was overplayed here, which led to some level of burn-out. It is interesting to see Brossoit do as well as he has since he left here. I do think there's a real organizational weak spot around goaltending that really needs to be addressed at some point.

I think Talbot was overplayed in the first few years but what's his excuse for his last season as an Oiler? He played 31 games that year with the Oilers so he couldn't have been that tired given Koskinen played a fair bit. Right out of the gate Talbot was hit or miss and he lost his job to a unknown out of the KHL. Fatigue can't be used as the reason he started the season poorly and then as the season when on and they split the games, he couldn't have been tired. I don't think you can blame the defense because behind the same guys and the same system Koskinen was significantly better that year.

I do think and I mentioned it when he was an Oiler and started having problems, is I wonder if Talbot was a bit of a equipment goalie. Right after the 16 playoff year, the NHL tweaked goalie gear and immediately Talbot struggled. Eventually he leveled off late in that 17-18 season. The the league tweaked the gear again and for the 18-19 season he struggled and ultimately lost his job.

I think Talbot showed over the bulk of his time with the Oilers is that he can be a good back up capable of playing long stretches of games well but he's not a true starter. He's better suited to be split time with a guy who's equal to him.

Talbot letting in goals on the first shot was an awful habit he developed. To be fair though, it was often as much about being left high and dry by the D as it was him missing an easy stop. I would have stuck with him versus the guys we brought in, and it’s worth noting he made it further in the playoffs than we did. He might not be elite but he’s good. Our habit of jumping ship on goalies has burned us more than once.

I think what you said was pretty fair. I do wonder if part of the issue was the team lost faith in him. Like you said, he had an awful habit of letting in the first shot. Some of them he didn't get a lot of help but there were lots where just make a save. It got to the point where he was letting in the first shot so often, you expected it as a fan or at least expected a bad goal. There weren't too many games in the last 2 years where he either didn't let the first one in or give up a stinker. I have to think that weighed on the bench just a bit. Even in the last playoff game for the Flames, they may have pulled him too early but he was not very good in that game before he was pulled. The Flames had full control and they needed their guy to make a save and he didn't. Khudobin spotted the Flames 3 early, then shut the door for his team.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765960 is a reply to message #765957 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 10:04

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:26

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 09:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:53

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:09

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?

I think the free agent pool looks pretty good.

Could you target a team that has 2 goalies and in a year will have to make a call? I know you said you aren't a fan of Murray but Pitts is an example.

Columbus? They have Korpisalo and Merzlikins. Merzlikins is starting a 4 mill contract next year yet Korposalo played the playoffs. Can't protect both.

Rangers have 3. Lundqvist has 1 yr at 8.5 mill. Who's taking a 38 yr old for that money? Then they have Shesterkin who looks like their guy and Georgiev who needs a new deal. Can't protect both.

What about Arizona? Kuemper is their guy and he starts a 4.5 mill deal next year. For a team that is usually tight on dollars, are thy dying to keep Raanta at 4.1 mill to sit on the bench?




Rangers are an interesting option. Can't see Lundqvist leaving unless its to a Cup contender, but his salary makes him unmovable. Does he retire? Both Russian tenders look solid, but I think either would cost our first round pick at the very least.

Not sold on Elvis. Has a sweet smell of Binnington all over him.

Arizona tenders seem to be made of Ales Hemsky's shoulder ligaments.

I am not saying The Flower is the best option, but with Vegas in a bind there might be a bad deal for a bad deal trade sitting there for the taking.

I don't see a team taking on Lundqvist. He's got the no move so he isn't waving to go to a crap team. He's going to be 39 in March. If he was a cap hit of a couple of mill then maybe but he's an 8.5 mill cap hit. Pretty hard for any team to take that on. Teams don't even get much of a break on salary paid. He makes 5.5 mill in salary this year. That is A LOT of money to just walk away from if he were to retire.


He has made 98M+. If he were to walk away into the sunset, then the Rags would only be on the hook for 3M Cap Hit.

Since he signed the deal prior to his 35th birthday, you would just subtract the cap hit from the value of the contract and you come up with the cap hit for the final year of the contract, a total of $3 million.


But again I ask why would a player walk away from that much money when he has all the power? He has a complete no move, so they can't trade him without his blessing. His money is guaranteed. He's in the same City he's been in since coming over to North America to be in the NHL. He's beloved. Unless he's sick of it, why would you leave. I could see if he was traded to another team and there was 1 yr left, then maybe but not if you are with the same team living in your home.


Have you ever worked with someone who retired early? I have. The job was no longer what it used to be. Felt displaced. I have a few people leave my workforce well before they attained their full pension and these were not millionaires. They did find jobs they loved after they left and all seem to be loving their new lives.

I am not saying he will retire, But the King doesn't seem like the type of guy to rotate in and out of the pressbox or ride the pine just to collect some cheques in yet another partial, confusing season. He is revered in NYC and it's likely his forever home. If he retires he can just 'jam' more.


You could be right but I don't think pro athletes are wired the same as average people working at a desk even if the desk guy loves his job. I don't think when he signed the deal that takes him into 39,he signed it thinking he would retire early, he signed it thinking he would see it out and be playing. Now I really doubt if you asked him truthfully when he signed it, that at 39 he expected to be the starter playing 60 games a year. I hear time and time again that the biggest thing these retired pros miss is the guys and being in the room. If he retires early, that is gone a year sooner than it needs to be. Plus unless he physically can't play anymore, I don't see the Rangers putting him in the pressbox night after night. First it would be disrespecting a team legend. Second, that's 8.5 mill in cap hit sitting up there.

I guess we will find out but I'd be surprised if he retired. A huge solid to the Rangers if he did.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765927 is a reply to message #765923 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?


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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765929 is a reply to message #765927 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 11:11

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 10:37

Such an odd situation. What's so hard for the agent (and possibly Fleury) to get about how Fleury has been handily outplayed by the other guy? And TheBore wants to win games. St Louis and Edmonton both gave nice examples of what happens when your coach is more interested in loyalty to a goalie than acknowledging who is giving the better chance to win.

I don't think I would want Fleury here. Getting old. His play style is all about the frantic fast twitch stuff. I think he's kinda losing it. And his issues with confidence going deep into the toilet, I wouldn't like his chances here :)



I get what you are saying, but....the UFA pool looks like a dogs breakfast. Khudobin maybe, but what will he cost? I'm not a Matt Murray fan and I don't know who else you target in a trade. Maybe James Neal would be welcomed back to Vegas?


Nikolai Khabibulin 2.0. Is this what we want?


But does he guzzle vodka like its water?



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765936 is a reply to message #765920 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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I think Fleury is probably a great teammate, but I'm not sure he's a great goalie anymore. He's too much risk for the money.

I also can't really see teams with two solid goalie options just sacrificing one this summer. Next summer? Sure, maybe. They'll want to get something back if they can't work a deal with Seattle to not take one of them. But if they feel they are competitive and think they have a window for success - and teams like Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Colorado probably feel that way - they probably don't want to sacrifice that. I'd make calls, but I'm skeptical we see a lot of those guys moving.

Acquiring teams won't want to overpay because of the deep UFA pool; and the retaining teams won't want to lower their asking price to the point of making a deal happen because they won't get back value above what they get by keeping them another season.

The UFA pool probably is stronger than it's been in quite some time: Holtby, Lehner, Markstrom, Khudobin and then the second tier of Crawford, Anderson, Talbot, Greiss, Elliott, Dell. I could see the Oilers going after all of Holtby, Markstrom, Khudobin, and Lehner and trying to land one of them.

I think something could happen in New York though. I think they'll try to move Lundqvist, but if they have difficulty (and they probably will have difficulty), one of the young goalies may become available. They may opt to just hang onto Lundqvist and expose him to Seattle and try to get assets back for one of the younger goalies. It's a problem that is unique to NYR and not CLB, PIT, or COL.

Other heavy contract vets who have lost the starting job may be available. Dubnyk, Schneider, Raanta, Rinne, Fleury.

If for some reason Toronto wants to move on from Andersen, that's an attractive option.

Of that list, who are you targeting?

Holtby (UFA)
Lehner (UFA)
Markstrom (UFA)
Khudobin (UFA)
Dell (UFA)
Crawford (UFA)
Anderson (UFA)
Talbot (UFA)
Greiss (UFA)
Elliott (UFA)
Lundqvist
Dubnyk
Schneider
Raanta
Rinne
Fleury
Andersen
...maybe Shesterkin?



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765937 is a reply to message #765936 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 13:06

I think Fleury is probably a great teammate, but I'm not sure he's a great goalie anymore. He's too much risk for the money.

I also can't really see teams with two solid goalie options just sacrificing one this summer. Next summer? Sure, maybe. They'll want to get something back if they can't work a deal with Seattle to not take one of them. But if they feel they are competitive and think they have a window for success - and teams like Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Colorado probably feel that way - they probably don't want to sacrifice that. I'd make calls, but I'm skeptical we see a lot of those guys moving.

Acquiring teams won't want to overpay because of the deep UFA pool; and the retaining teams won't want to lower their asking price to the point of making a deal happen because they won't get back value above what they get by keeping them another season.

The UFA pool probably is stronger than it's been in quite some time: Holtby, Lehner, Markstrom, Khudobin and then the second tier of Crawford, Anderson, Talbot, Greiss, Elliott, Dell. I could see the Oilers going after all of Holtby, Markstrom, Khudobin, and Lehner and trying to land one of them.

I think something could happen in New York though. I think they'll try to move Lundqvist, but if they have difficulty (and they probably will have difficulty), one of the young goalies may become available. They may opt to just hang onto Lundqvist and expose him to Seattle and try to get assets back for one of the younger goalies. It's a problem that is unique to NYR and not CLB, PIT, or COL.

Other heavy contract vets who have lost the starting job may be available. Dubnyk, Schneider, Raanta, Rinne, Fleury.

If for some reason Toronto wants to move on from Andersen, that's an attractive option.

Of that list, who are you targeting?

Holtby (UFA)
Lehner (UFA)
Markstrom (UFA)
Khudobin (UFA)
Dell (UFA)
Crawford (UFA)
Anderson (UFA)
Talbot (UFA)
Greiss (UFA)
Elliott (UFA)
Lundqvist
Dubnyk
Schneider
Raanta
Rinne
Fleury
Andersen
...maybe Shesterkin?


We've discussed this before, and we disagree on how teams will view the expansion draft. I don't think it's going to drive goalie retention because they can all protect one goalie. There's no value to having a great second goalie because you can already protect the one you like best. Losing a good second goalie for nothing is painful and while last time I thought there would be a bunch of movement ahead of the draft from teams who had space to shelter grabbing someone who the other teams were faced with losing - that's not what happened in the end and we saw very little of it. (Looking again at us protecting Mark Letestu, for example, the Oilers would have done well to offer up something of value for one of the good forwards that the Knights got for free - maybe you get Neal here years earlier for a draft pick back when he was more productive AND cheaper, and who cares if you lose Mark Letestu as a result?)

If that holds again, then you're going to do better selling high now on the second goalie - especially if you feel you can backfill with either someone else in the system or a low cost back-up, or in the case of the Rangers, with Henrik Lundqvist.

Now, you might see some teams who think they're contenders think that they are better off with two good goalies even if it means they lose one next year, but a lot of these teams (Columbus, New York) aren't contenders yet anyhow and if they can get a meaningful asset instead of losing that goaltender, then they'll do it.

I would rather spend a high price on a young good goalie pre-big payday than to chase a high-end UFA or trade for an over-priced former UFA.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765939 is a reply to message #765937 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 13:38

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 13:06

I think Fleury is probably a great teammate, but I'm not sure he's a great goalie anymore. He's too much risk for the money.

I also can't really see teams with two solid goalie options just sacrificing one this summer. Next summer? Sure, maybe. They'll want to get something back if they can't work a deal with Seattle to not take one of them. But if they feel they are competitive and think they have a window for success - and teams like Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Colorado probably feel that way - they probably don't want to sacrifice that. I'd make calls, but I'm skeptical we see a lot of those guys moving.

Acquiring teams won't want to overpay because of the deep UFA pool; and the retaining teams won't want to lower their asking price to the point of making a deal happen because they won't get back value above what they get by keeping them another season.

The UFA pool probably is stronger than it's been in quite some time: Holtby, Lehner, Markstrom, Khudobin and then the second tier of Crawford, Anderson, Talbot, Greiss, Elliott, Dell. I could see the Oilers going after all of Holtby, Markstrom, Khudobin, and Lehner and trying to land one of them.

I think something could happen in New York though. I think they'll try to move Lundqvist, but if they have difficulty (and they probably will have difficulty), one of the young goalies may become available. They may opt to just hang onto Lundqvist and expose him to Seattle and try to get assets back for one of the younger goalies. It's a problem that is unique to NYR and not CLB, PIT, or COL.

Other heavy contract vets who have lost the starting job may be available. Dubnyk, Schneider, Raanta, Rinne, Fleury.

If for some reason Toronto wants to move on from Andersen, that's an attractive option.

Of that list, who are you targeting?

Holtby (UFA)
Lehner (UFA)
Markstrom (UFA)
Khudobin (UFA)
Dell (UFA)
Crawford (UFA)
Anderson (UFA)
Talbot (UFA)
Greiss (UFA)
Elliott (UFA)
Lundqvist
Dubnyk
Schneider
Raanta
Rinne
Fleury
Andersen
...maybe Shesterkin?


We've discussed this before, and we disagree on how teams will view the expansion draft. I don't think it's going to drive goalie retention because they can all protect one goalie. There's no value to having a great second goalie because you can already protect the one you like best. Losing a good second goalie for nothing is painful and while last time I thought there would be a bunch of movement ahead of the draft from teams who had space to shelter grabbing someone who the other teams were faced with losing - that's not what happened in the end and we saw very little of it. (Looking again at us protecting Mark Letestu, for example, the Oilers would have done well to offer up something of value for one of the good forwards that the Knights got for free - maybe you get Neal here years earlier for a draft pick back when he was more productive AND cheaper, and who cares if you lose Mark Letestu as a result?)

If that holds again, then you're going to do better selling high now on the second goalie - especially if you feel you can backfill with either someone else in the system or a low cost back-up, or in the case of the Rangers, with Henrik Lundqvist.

Now, you might see some teams who think they're contenders think that they are better off with two good goalies even if it means they lose one next year, but a lot of these teams (Columbus, New York) aren't contenders yet anyhow and if they can get a meaningful asset instead of losing that goaltender, then they'll do it.

I would rather spend a high price on a young good goalie pre-big payday than to chase a high-end UFA or trade for an over-priced former UFA.


Guess we will see this offseason.

The thing that I think I learned last expansion draft is that teams don't like to make a move before they have to... too many variables can change, and there are deals to be made at the expansion draft to protect players and assets. Vegas took three goalies (a starter, a backup, a minor league goalie); I'd expect the same from Seattle. Offer a pick and leave an attractive depth forward available, and you may be able to keep both your goalies through the expansion draft. There's no guarantee you have to lose both.

If it doesn't look like you can swing a deal, then you make a move to a team like Edmonton or Calgary that doesn't have a goalie worth protecting. You likely don't get as much, but you likely still get a good return. It's a panic move to make it this summer based on what *could* happen in a year, especially if you are a playoff team and have a roster where their window is now. I'd be very surprised to see Korpisalo, Merzlikins, Grubauer, Francouz, or Jarry moved. I'd be a little less shocked to see Murray moved, but still put it probably at 40/60. (All that changes if one of those teams tries to upgrade with someone like Markstrom).

Rangers have a situation though. It's a three-headed monster, and there could be movement there.

We'll see. My prediction is we see lots of goalie movement, but not necessarily a lot of trades, and particularly not a lot of trades from teams that have a solid goalie tandem. My other prediction is the Oilers end up overpaying on Holtby.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765941 is a reply to message #765939 ]
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:17

Adam wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 13:38

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 13:06

I think Fleury is probably a great teammate, but I'm not sure he's a great goalie anymore. He's too much risk for the money.

I also can't really see teams with two solid goalie options just sacrificing one this summer. Next summer? Sure, maybe. They'll want to get something back if they can't work a deal with Seattle to not take one of them. But if they feel they are competitive and think they have a window for success - and teams like Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Colorado probably feel that way - they probably don't want to sacrifice that. I'd make calls, but I'm skeptical we see a lot of those guys moving.

Acquiring teams won't want to overpay because of the deep UFA pool; and the retaining teams won't want to lower their asking price to the point of making a deal happen because they won't get back value above what they get by keeping them another season.

The UFA pool probably is stronger than it's been in quite some time: Holtby, Lehner, Markstrom, Khudobin and then the second tier of Crawford, Anderson, Talbot, Greiss, Elliott, Dell. I could see the Oilers going after all of Holtby, Markstrom, Khudobin, and Lehner and trying to land one of them.

I think something could happen in New York though. I think they'll try to move Lundqvist, but if they have difficulty (and they probably will have difficulty), one of the young goalies may become available. They may opt to just hang onto Lundqvist and expose him to Seattle and try to get assets back for one of the younger goalies. It's a problem that is unique to NYR and not CLB, PIT, or COL.

Other heavy contract vets who have lost the starting job may be available. Dubnyk, Schneider, Raanta, Rinne, Fleury.

If for some reason Toronto wants to move on from Andersen, that's an attractive option.

Of that list, who are you targeting?

Holtby (UFA)
Lehner (UFA)
Markstrom (UFA)
Khudobin (UFA)
Dell (UFA)
Crawford (UFA)
Anderson (UFA)
Talbot (UFA)
Greiss (UFA)
Elliott (UFA)
Lundqvist
Dubnyk
Schneider
Raanta
Rinne
Fleury
Andersen
...maybe Shesterkin?


We've discussed this before, and we disagree on how teams will view the expansion draft. I don't think it's going to drive goalie retention because they can all protect one goalie. There's no value to having a great second goalie because you can already protect the one you like best. Losing a good second goalie for nothing is painful and while last time I thought there would be a bunch of movement ahead of the draft from teams who had space to shelter grabbing someone who the other teams were faced with losing - that's not what happened in the end and we saw very little of it. (Looking again at us protecting Mark Letestu, for example, the Oilers would have done well to offer up something of value for one of the good forwards that the Knights got for free - maybe you get Neal here years earlier for a draft pick back when he was more productive AND cheaper, and who cares if you lose Mark Letestu as a result?)

If that holds again, then you're going to do better selling high now on the second goalie - especially if you feel you can backfill with either someone else in the system or a low cost back-up, or in the case of the Rangers, with Henrik Lundqvist.

Now, you might see some teams who think they're contenders think that they are better off with two good goalies even if it means they lose one next year, but a lot of these teams (Columbus, New York) aren't contenders yet anyhow and if they can get a meaningful asset instead of losing that goaltender, then they'll do it.

I would rather spend a high price on a young good goalie pre-big payday than to chase a high-end UFA or trade for an over-priced former UFA.


Guess we will see this offseason.

The thing that I think I learned last expansion draft is that teams don't like to make a move before they have to... too many variables can change, and there are deals to be made at the expansion draft to protect players and assets. Vegas took three goalies (a starter, a backup, a minor league goalie); I'd expect the same from Seattle. Offer a pick and leave an attractive depth forward available, and you may be able to keep both your goalies through the expansion draft. There's no guarantee you have to lose both.

If it doesn't look like you can swing a deal, then you make a move to a team like Edmonton or Calgary that doesn't have a goalie worth protecting. You likely don't get as much, but you likely still get a good return. It's a panic move to make it this summer based on what *could* happen in a year, especially if you are a playoff team and have a roster where their window is now. I'd be very surprised to see Korpisalo, Merzlikins, Grubauer, Francouz, or Jarry moved. I'd be a little less shocked to see Murray moved, but still put it probably at 40/60. (All that changes if one of those teams tries to upgrade with someone like Markstrom).

Rangers have a situation though. It's a three-headed monster, and there could be movement there.

We'll see. My prediction is we see lots of goalie movement, but not necessarily a lot of trades, and particularly not a lot of trades from teams that have a solid goalie tandem. My other prediction is the Oilers end up overpaying on Holtby.

What would you consider and overpay for Holtby? Assuming they keep Koskinen, I think the Oilers need to have a 1A/1B goalie tandem. To do that, I think they need to be spending 2-3 mill on a guy.




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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765943 is a reply to message #765941 ]
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:30


What would you consider and overpay for Holtby? Assuming they keep Koskinen, I think the Oilers need to have a 1A/1B goalie tandem. To do that, I think they need to be spending 2-3 mill on a guy.


I don't know... the flat cap is hard to read what UFAs will get this summer. Very likely less than what they would have had COVID-19 not happened.

I could see Holtby getting a similar deal to his last one, something like $5-$6M on a 5 or 6 year term.

I could also see him going one-year and hoping the cap rises.

My guess is at his age, he'd take the long-term security, but it's tough to say. He had a down year for sure and the analytics folks aren't super keen on him, but prior to that he had a lot of success in Washington.

I'm not sure he's the best choice, but I could see it happening, and there is the possibility it works out.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765944 is a reply to message #765943 ]
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:30


What would you consider and overpay for Holtby? Assuming they keep Koskinen, I think the Oilers need to have a 1A/1B goalie tandem. To do that, I think they need to be spending 2-3 mill on a guy.


I don't know... the flat cap is hard to read what UFAs will get this summer. Very likely less than what they would have had COVID-19 not happened.

I could see Holtby getting a similar deal to his last one, something like $5-$6M on a 5 or 6 year term.

I could also see him going one-year and hoping the cap rises.

My guess is at his age, he'd take the long-term security, but it's tough to say. He had a down year for sure and the analytics folks aren't super keen on him, but prior to that he had a lot of success in Washington.

I'm not sure he's the best choice, but I could see it happening, and there is the possibility it works out.


I agree - he gets $6MM for six years from someone. It would be a tremendous risk for him to take a short-term deal. A bad year would cost him millions, and he's the one of the top choices this year. He may not be in a year or two.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765946 is a reply to message #765944 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 15:01

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:30


What would you consider and overpay for Holtby? Assuming they keep Koskinen, I think the Oilers need to have a 1A/1B goalie tandem. To do that, I think they need to be spending 2-3 mill on a guy.


I don't know... the flat cap is hard to read what UFAs will get this summer. Very likely less than what they would have had COVID-19 not happened.

I could see Holtby getting a similar deal to his last one, something like $5-$6M on a 5 or 6 year term.

I could also see him going one-year and hoping the cap rises.

My guess is at his age, he'd take the long-term security, but it's tough to say. He had a down year for sure and the analytics folks aren't super keen on him, but prior to that he had a lot of success in Washington.

I'm not sure he's the best choice, but I could see it happening, and there is the possibility it works out.


I agree - he gets $6MM for six years from someone. It would be a tremendous risk for him to take a short-term deal. A bad year would cost him millions, and he's the one of the top choices this year. He may not be in a year or two.


I do wonder if the days of teams committing long term and big money are over? It seems to be going towards more of a 2 goalie system where maybe your "#1" hits around 50 games but you don't see a lot of teams going 60+ games with 1 guy so can you justify paying a guy 6+ mill on a long term for barely half the games?



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765953 is a reply to message #765946 ]
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 15:38

Adam wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 15:01

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:30


What would you consider and overpay for Holtby? Assuming they keep Koskinen, I think the Oilers need to have a 1A/1B goalie tandem. To do that, I think they need to be spending 2-3 mill on a guy.


I don't know... the flat cap is hard to read what UFAs will get this summer. Very likely less than what they would have had COVID-19 not happened.

I could see Holtby getting a similar deal to his last one, something like $5-$6M on a 5 or 6 year term.

I could also see him going one-year and hoping the cap rises.

My guess is at his age, he'd take the long-term security, but it's tough to say. He had a down year for sure and the analytics folks aren't super keen on him, but prior to that he had a lot of success in Washington.

I'm not sure he's the best choice, but I could see it happening, and there is the possibility it works out.


I agree - he gets $6MM for six years from someone. It would be a tremendous risk for him to take a short-term deal. A bad year would cost him millions, and he's the one of the top choices this year. He may not be in a year or two.


I do wonder if the days of teams committing long term and big money are over? It seems to be going towards more of a 2 goalie system where maybe your "#1" hits around 50 games but you don't see a lot of teams going 60+ games with 1 guy so can you justify paying a guy 6+ mill on a long term for barely half the games?


Half the GMs in the league don't know what they're doing and they're all scared because they're chasing scarce resources, so while every year you hear some predictions that we'll finally see sanity in free agency, it pretty much never happens. There's always a few players who get greedy and get left out in the cold, but it's not usually the top 3-4 guys at each position. Those guys always get snapped up fast, and usually with a ridiculous over-pay on both term and dollars. I do not expect this to change.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765945 is a reply to message #765943 ]
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:30


What would you consider and overpay for Holtby? Assuming they keep Koskinen, I think the Oilers need to have a 1A/1B goalie tandem. To do that, I think they need to be spending 2-3 mill on a guy.


I don't know... the flat cap is hard to read what UFAs will get this summer. Very likely less than what they would have had COVID-19 not happened.

I could see Holtby getting a similar deal to his last one, something like $5-$6M on a 5 or 6 year term.

I could also see him going one-year and hoping the cap rises.

My guess is at his age, he'd take the long-term security, but it's tough to say. He had a down year for sure and the analytics folks aren't super keen on him, but prior to that he had a lot of success in Washington.

I'm not sure he's the best choice, but I could see it happening, and there is the possibility it works out.

Honestly my preference would be upgrading defence. If Chia hadn't sewered us with a long term overpay on koskinen I'd say just put 2nd stringers back there behind better D. Then look to add a goalie when you're closer to a Cup run. In a way that's what we're doing, we're just paying him like a top goalie.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765951 is a reply to message #765945 ]
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 15:01

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:30


What would you consider and overpay for Holtby? Assuming they keep Koskinen, I think the Oilers need to have a 1A/1B goalie tandem. To do that, I think they need to be spending 2-3 mill on a guy.


I don't know... the flat cap is hard to read what UFAs will get this summer. Very likely less than what they would have had COVID-19 not happened.

I could see Holtby getting a similar deal to his last one, something like $5-$6M on a 5 or 6 year term.

I could also see him going one-year and hoping the cap rises.

My guess is at his age, he'd take the long-term security, but it's tough to say. He had a down year for sure and the analytics folks aren't super keen on him, but prior to that he had a lot of success in Washington.

I'm not sure he's the best choice, but I could see it happening, and there is the possibility it works out.

Honestly my preference would be upgrading defence. If Chia hadn't sewered us with a long term overpay on koskinen I'd say just put 2nd stringers back there behind better D. Then look to add a goalie when you're closer to a Cup run. In a way that's what we're doing, we're just paying him like a top goalie.


I wouldn't upgrade defence either - we can't protect them all and I think you want Jones and Bear up all year and Bouchard getting at least a look. I think you're trying to find a home for Russell this summer, and then mostly rolling with what you have, unless there's a one year solution. Maybe an area to bolster at the deadline next season.

I'd be looking at good help at forward, potentially short-term help. Worst case scenario if you improve the forward ranks enough, you can go to the 3D route for the expansion draft. And I'd be looking to upgrade the goalie, because we have room there, and can possibly be creative to get Koskinen off the books if needed.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765942 is a reply to message #765939 ]
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:17


Guess we will see this offseason.

The thing that I think I learned last expansion draft is that teams don't like to make a move before they have to... too many variables can change, and there are deals to be made at the expansion draft to protect players and assets. Vegas took three goalies (a starter, a backup, a minor league goalie); I'd expect the same from Seattle. Offer a pick and leave an attractive depth forward available, and you may be able to keep both your goalies through the expansion draft. There's no guarantee you have to lose both.

If it doesn't look like you can swing a deal, then you make a move to a team like Edmonton or Calgary that doesn't have a goalie worth protecting. You likely don't get as much, but you likely still get a good return. It's a panic move to make it this summer based on what *could* happen in a year, especially if you are a playoff team and have a roster where their window is now. I'd be very surprised to see Korpisalo, Merzlikins, Grubauer, Francouz, or Jarry moved. I'd be a little less shocked to see Murray moved, but still put it probably at 40/60. (All that changes if one of those teams tries to upgrade with someone like Markstrom).

Rangers have a situation though. It's a three-headed monster, and there could be movement there.

We'll see. My prediction is we see lots of goalie movement, but not necessarily a lot of trades, and particularly not a lot of trades from teams that have a solid goalie tandem. My other prediction is the Oilers end up overpaying on Holtby.


The thing is, there weren't a bunch of deals right ahead of the draft...only with Vegas. It would make some sense to see movement with teams that had space on their protected list trading to get people who'd be otherwise exposed, but it didn't happen.

Worth noting, the Rangers issue goes away next summer. Lundqvist will finish his deal and then retire. Lundqvist will be exposed in the expansion draft, but he's a UFA-to-be, so not really in danger of being picked.



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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 14:17

Adam wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 13:38

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 13:06

I think Fleury is probably a great teammate, but I'm not sure he's a great goalie anymore. He's too much risk for the money.

I also can't really see teams with two solid goalie options just sacrificing one this summer. Next summer? Sure, maybe. They'll want to get something back if they can't work a deal with Seattle to not take one of them. But if they feel they are competitive and think they have a window for success - and teams like Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Colorado probably feel that way - they probably don't want to sacrifice that. I'd make calls, but I'm skeptical we see a lot of those guys moving.

Acquiring teams won't want to overpay because of the deep UFA pool; and the retaining teams won't want to lower their asking price to the point of making a deal happen because they won't get back value above what they get by keeping them another season.

The UFA pool probably is stronger than it's been in quite some time: Holtby, Lehner, Markstrom, Khudobin and then the second tier of Crawford, Anderson, Talbot, Greiss, Elliott, Dell. I could see the Oilers going after all of Holtby, Markstrom, Khudobin, and Lehner and trying to land one of them.

I think something could happen in New York though. I think they'll try to move Lundqvist, but if they have difficulty (and they probably will have difficulty), one of the young goalies may become available. They may opt to just hang onto Lundqvist and expose him to Seattle and try to get assets back for one of the younger goalies. It's a problem that is unique to NYR and not CLB, PIT, or COL.

Other heavy contract vets who have lost the starting job may be available. Dubnyk, Schneider, Raanta, Rinne, Fleury.

If for some reason Toronto wants to move on from Andersen, that's an attractive option.

Of that list, who are you targeting?

Holtby (UFA)
Lehner (UFA)
Markstrom (UFA)
Khudobin (UFA)
Dell (UFA)
Crawford (UFA)
Anderson (UFA)
Talbot (UFA)
Greiss (UFA)
Elliott (UFA)
Lundqvist
Dubnyk
Schneider
Raanta
Rinne
Fleury
Andersen
...maybe Shesterkin?


We've discussed this before, and we disagree on how teams will view the expansion draft. I don't think it's going to drive goalie retention because they can all protect one goalie. There's no value to having a great second goalie because you can already protect the one you like best. Losing a good second goalie for nothing is painful and while last time I thought there would be a bunch of movement ahead of the draft from teams who had space to shelter grabbing someone who the other teams were faced with losing - that's not what happened in the end and we saw very little of it. (Looking again at us protecting Mark Letestu, for example, the Oilers would have done well to offer up something of value for one of the good forwards that the Knights got for free - maybe you get Neal here years earlier for a draft pick back when he was more productive AND cheaper, and who cares if you lose Mark Letestu as a result?)

If that holds again, then you're going to do better selling high now on the second goalie - especially if you feel you can backfill with either someone else in the system or a low cost back-up, or in the case of the Rangers, with Henrik Lundqvist.

Now, you might see some teams who think they're contenders think that they are better off with two good goalies even if it means they lose one next year, but a lot of these teams (Columbus, New York) aren't contenders yet anyhow and if they can get a meaningful asset instead of losing that goaltender, then they'll do it.

I would rather spend a high price on a young good goalie pre-big payday than to chase a high-end UFA or trade for an over-priced former UFA.


Guess we will see this offseason.

The thing that I think I learned last expansion draft is that teams don't like to make a move before they have to... too many variables can change, and there are deals to be made at the expansion draft to protect players and assets. Vegas took three goalies (a starter, a backup, a minor league goalie); I'd expect the same from Seattle. Offer a pick and leave an attractive depth forward available, and you may be able to keep both your goalies through the expansion draft. There's no guarantee you have to lose both.

If it doesn't look like you can swing a deal, then you make a move to a team like Edmonton or Calgary that doesn't have a goalie worth protecting. You likely don't get as much, but you likely still get a good return. It's a panic move to make it this summer based on what *could* happen in a year, especially if you are a playoff team and have a roster where their window is now. I'd be very surprised to see Korpisalo, Merzlikins, Grubauer, Francouz, or Jarry moved. I'd be a little less shocked to see Murray moved, but still put it probably at 40/60. (All that changes if one of those teams tries to upgrade with someone like Markstrom).

Rangers have a situation though. It's a three-headed monster, and there could be movement there.

We'll see. My prediction is we see lots of goalie movement, but not necessarily a lot of trades, and particularly not a lot of trades from teams that have a solid goalie tandem. My other prediction is the Oilers end up overpaying on Holtby.


The question is, do the Rangers know which goalie they want to move forward with? I could see them keeping both young guys going into the new NHL season and see how they play before deciding which one to move.

Lundqvist looked solemn after the play-in loss. I just see him retiring prior to training camp and playing guitar with John McEnroe for a bunch of NYC socialites.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #765940 is a reply to message #765937 ]
Tue, 25 August 2020 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 25 August 2020 13:38

Losing a good second goalie for nothing is painful and while last time I thought there would be a bunch of movement ahead of the draft from teams who had space to shelter grabbing someone who the other teams were faced with losing - that's not what happened in the end and we saw very little of it. (Looking again at us protecting Mark Letestu, for example, the Oilers would have done well to offer up something of value for one of the good forwards that the Knights got for free - maybe you get Neal here years earlier for a draft pick back when he was more productive AND cheaper, and who cares if you lose Mark Letestu as a result?)

If that holds again, then you're going to do better selling high now on the second goalie - especially if you feel you can backfill with either someone else in the system or a low cost back-up, or in the case of the Rangers, with Henrik Lundqvist.


I think the surprise was that Vegas, quite smartly, made all the deals with the teams directly about players they wanted to keep. Rather than those teams going around Vegas to make deals with each other, they made concessions with the expansion team so they could keep the player they wanted. Some of them definitely were fixated on protecting the wrong players (Florida, Anaheim, Minnesota), but that's kind of a different issue. There was a lot of movement, and a lot of moves made to protect players or get Vegas to take bad contracts, just not a lot of backdoor trades.

Seattle might be smart to use a similar model to build assets quickly.



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 Re: Would you take a "stab" at MAF? [message #766138 is a reply to message #765920 ]
Mon, 31 August 2020 20:42 Go to previous message
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Well, maybe Francouz becomes available?

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/avalanches-pav el-francouz-not-dressing-monday/



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