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 Hall for Ceci [message #706406]
Thu, 04 January 2018 08:33 Go to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Dreger on the radio this morning said Oilers and Ottawa almost completed a 1 for 1 trade:

Taylor Hall for Cody Ceci



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706407 is a reply to message #706406 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ  is currently offline MJ
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Moved to Speculation...

If true, I guess we shouldn't complain about the Larsson trade?

Surely there should have been more parts involved from Ottawa's side.

Then again, we are talking about the incompetent managerial core of the Oilers, so I can nearly believe anything.



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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706408 is a reply to message #706406 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 08:33

Dreger on the radio this morning said Oilers and Ottawa almost completed a 1 for 1 trade:

Taylor Hall for Cody Ceci


It's not THAT dissimilar from what actually happened. Larsson scores about the same rate. They're both fairly big, right shot defencemen who are fairly solid defensively. Ceci's a year younger, but doesn't have the same draft pedigree (he was 15th overall in 2012, as opposed to 4th overall in 2011).

It just shows again that Chiarelli A) isn't very good at evaluating what his assets are worth and B) isn't very good at using leverage in a deal. If this is accurate, and he REALLY believed that he needed one of those two players, then he should have played the GMs of Ottawa and New Jersey off against each other to an extent and not made a deal until one agreed to add to the other side of the scale.

It is clear, he's not a good negotiator. We just have to hope the team doesn't let him make any more trades.



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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706410 is a reply to message #706406 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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hehe, heard this this morning too. Ottawa couldn't get their approvals before Chia flipped and pulled the trigger on Hall for Larsson? Chia musta had a hot date or something if that's true. And Ottawa sens are run like the government down there apparently.


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706411 is a reply to message #706410 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 09:13

hehe, heard this this morning too. Ottawa couldn't get their approvals before Chia flipped and pulled the trigger on Hall for Larsson? Chia musta had a hot date or something if that's true. And Ottawa sens are run like the government down there apparently.


Here's the pathetic thing. Two teams at the table, both offering a defensive defenceman for a star left winger...and Chiarelli couldn't convince EITHER of them to throw even a 6th round pick in to the deal.

That's so incredibly pathetic.

I wish they'd still been doing Oil Change. It would have been depressingly funny to watch him squander the asset on camera.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706412 is a reply to message #706411 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 09:15

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 09:13

hehe, heard this this morning too. Ottawa couldn't get their approvals before Chia flipped and pulled the trigger on Hall for Larsson? Chia musta had a hot date or something if that's true. And Ottawa sens are run like the government down there apparently.


Here's the pathetic thing. Two teams at the table, both offering a defensive defenceman for a star left winger...and Chiarelli couldn't convince EITHER of them to throw even a 6th round pick in to the deal.

That's so incredibly pathetic.

I wish they'd still been doing Oil Change. It would have been depressingly funny to watch him squander the asset on camera.


Well, he only really had 1 deal on the table that passed through the necessary approval processes. And I would guess some DDD's waiting for him for dinner. Priorities.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706427 is a reply to message #706406 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
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I heard from a very reliable source that the deal didn't go through because Chiarelli actually mistakenly called a Mexican number and no transaction was done.

Peter Chiarelli: "Hello? Hey we are looking to trade Hall, what can you give us?"

Not Bryan Murray: "Si Si Senior!"

Peter Chiarelli : "Ceci? Deal!"

*Hangs Up*

Written by M. Night Shamalayan



"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706452 is a reply to message #706406 ]
Thu, 04 January 2018 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Dreger showing why it's gonna be a sad day when McKenzie retires and he is one of the top, if not the go-to "insider" on TSN.

https://www.fanragsports.com/dreger-elaborates-on-hall-for-c eci-trade-comments/

Basically he just made up the story of the deal that was stuck in a chain of command in Ottawa. He really has no clue what was offered or what was on the table or how many teams were involved.

So much junk has come out of Dreger about the Oilers over the last few years. He needs to stick to Toronto.

[Updated on: Thu, 04 January 2018 17:49]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706503 is a reply to message #706452 ]
Fri, 05 January 2018 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 17:47

Dreger showing why it's gonna be a sad day when McKenzie retires and he is one of the top, if not the go-to "insider" on TSN.

https://www.fanragsports.com/dreger-elaborates-on-hall-for-c eci-trade-comments/

Basically he just made up the story of the deal that was stuck in a chain of command in Ottawa. He really has no clue what was offered or what was on the table or how many teams were involved.

So much junk has come out of Dreger about the Oilers over the last few years. He needs to stick to Toronto.


I don't know - he doesn't really back off it there. He says that it was being discussed, that it was a fairly advanced discussion. He says that the information he had out of Alberta was that they were very close to completing that trade. That fits with three things we know:

1) The Oilers were clearly seeking a player in that mold. Despite all the rage here yesterday, the gap between Larsson and Ceci isn't very big. He's right shot, and he's the player type that Chiarelli really likes. Tough, mean, more focused on defence than offence.

2) Ceci still would have fit with what Stauffer and Rishaug were repeatedly saying (with clear marching orders) all that week preceding the trade - it was a player who wasn't on the rumours radar screen, and the Oilers would likely have to make a big overpay to get him.

3) Information is ALWAYS leaking out of the Oilers head office. For him to have "information that (he) was collecting out of Alberta" isn't surprising at all. It could potentially have been from Rishaug, but that's unlikely since Rishaug's deal with Chiarelli was so clearly to carry water for the GM in exchange for the scoop. It's unlikely he'd share with another colleague who'd love another scoop.

If I was Ottawa, I'd be really annoyed by this because it's involving a player still on the roster and saying that the team almost had him dealt away. It's just another window in to an ineffective general manager here, but who didn't know he was crap at his job already?




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#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #706504 is a reply to message #706503 ]
Fri, 05 January 2018 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Fri, 05 January 2018 08:54

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 04 January 2018 17:47

Dreger showing why it's gonna be a sad day when McKenzie retires and he is one of the top, if not the go-to "insider" on TSN.

https://www.fanragsports.com/dreger-elaborates-on-hall-for-c eci-trade-comments/

Basically he just made up the story of the deal that was stuck in a chain of command in Ottawa. He really has no clue what was offered or what was on the table or how many teams were involved.

So much junk has come out of Dreger about the Oilers over the last few years. He needs to stick to Toronto.


I don't know - he doesn't really back off it there. He says that it was being discussed, that it was a fairly advanced discussion. He says that the information he had out of Alberta was that they were very close to completing that trade. That fits with three things we know:

1) The Oilers were clearly seeking a player in that mold. Despite all the rage here yesterday, the gap between Larsson and Ceci isn't very big. He's right shot, and he's the player type that Chiarelli really likes. Tough, mean, more focused on defence than offence.

2) Ceci still would have fit with what Stauffer and Rishaug were repeatedly saying (with clear marching orders) all that week preceding the trade - it was a player who wasn't on the rumours radar screen, and the Oilers would likely have to make a big overpay to get him.

3) Information is ALWAYS leaking out of the Oilers head office. For him to have "information that (he) was collecting out of Alberta" isn't surprising at all. It could potentially have been from Rishaug, but that's unlikely since Rishaug's deal with Chiarelli was so clearly to carry water for the GM in exchange for the scoop. It's unlikely he'd share with another colleague who'd love another scoop.

If I was Ottawa, I'd be really annoyed by this because it's involving a player still on the roster and saying that the team almost had him dealt away. It's just another window in to an ineffective general manager here, but who didn't know he was crap at his job already?




I think his story about how the Oilers were about to deal for Ceci and while Ottawa was trying to get approvals, Chia flipped to NJ was a fabrication though. What he was describing was actually a modified story about his own experience. He was running around trying to get info on what Chia was doing, he got a tidbit about Ottawa and then the NJ deal happened.

Now he broadens the story basically to he had no idea what was really happening or how many teams were involved in Hall discussions.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740089 is a reply to message #706406 ]
Mon, 08 July 2019 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740091 is a reply to message #740089 ]
Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burgeoboy  is currently offline Burgeoboy
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Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?



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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740092 is a reply to message #740091 ]
Mon, 08 July 2019 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


It sounds like there was a Hall for Subban deal to be made, and while Subban's contract is troublesome, it's hard to imagine that everyone wouldn't have been better off if that was the deal chosen. Instead of Subban, that money went to Lucic.



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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740094 is a reply to message #740092 ]
Mon, 08 July 2019 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burgeoboy  is currently offline Burgeoboy
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 22:38

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


It sounds like there was a Hall for Subban deal to be made, and while Subban's contract is troublesome, it's hard to imagine that everyone wouldn't have been better off if that was the deal chosen. Instead of Subban, that money went to Lucic.


I am only going off of memory, so I could be wrong, but at the time, I am pretty sure the Subban deal wasn’t 1 for 1 , I think they wanted Dri plus .



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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740100 is a reply to message #740094 ]
Mon, 08 July 2019 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 19:15

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 22:38

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


It sounds like there was a Hall for Subban deal to be made, and while Subban's contract is troublesome, it's hard to imagine that everyone wouldn't have been better off if that was the deal chosen. Instead of Subban, that money went to Lucic.


I am only going off of memory, so I could be wrong, but at the time, I am pretty sure the Subban deal wasn’t 1 for 1 , I think they wanted Dri plus .


The alleged ask from the Habs was Hall and Drai for Subban.

And I will stay out of conversations about Hall, everybody knows what I think of him.



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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740102 is a reply to message #740100 ]
Mon, 08 July 2019 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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NetBOG wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 20:23

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 19:15

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 22:38

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


It sounds like there was a Hall for Subban deal to be made, and while Subban's contract is troublesome, it's hard to imagine that everyone wouldn't have been better off if that was the deal chosen. Instead of Subban, that money went to Lucic.


I am only going off of memory, so I could be wrong, but at the time, I am pretty sure the Subban deal wasn’t 1 for 1 , I think they wanted Dri plus .


The alleged ask from the Habs was Hall and Drai for Subban.

And I will stay out of conversations about Hall, everybody knows what I think of him.



If that was the ask, good the Oilers walked away. That said, Hall for Subban one-for-one, and probably every one in Edmonton and Montreal is happier.



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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740093 is a reply to message #740091 ]
Mon, 08 July 2019 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


For the sake of discussion let's say he tried all 29 other teams and this WAS the very best deal.
If that was the case it doesn't excuse or defend the move, IMO it makes Chia look even dumber. As Adam mentioned he clearly had his mind made up that this is what he wanted to do and did it.

If you dont get a trade that is good value you walk away, simple as that. I dont think PC has ever shown that ability. Almost every one of his trades in his career he lost. Almost every time word comes out that the other options he had were worse. This is either propaganda at its finest or another example of him showing his hand and the other teams won the pot.

If you go into a deal with an asset in hand and a mentality of "I need position X and will give this asset for the best one I can" it almost always a bad position to be in.

I make deals and negotiate contracts for a living, you need to be able to manage assets and adapt as dictated by the situation. Being stuck on one idea or mentality will kill you.
If I negotiated like Chia I would be out of a job.



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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 October 2019 08:54

Your winner and nnnneeeeeeeewwwwwwwww champion...

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740103 is a reply to message #740093 ]
Mon, 08 July 2019 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 19:12

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


For the sake of discussion let's say he tried all 29 other teams and this WAS the very best deal.
If that was the case it doesn't excuse or defend the move, IMO it makes Chia look even dumber. As Adam mentioned he clearly had his mind made up that this is what he wanted to do and did it.

If you dont get a trade that is good value you walk away, simple as that. I dont think PC has ever shown that ability. Almost every one of his trades in his career he lost. Almost every time word comes out that the other options he had were worse. This is either propaganda at its finest or another example of him showing his hand and the other teams won the pot.

If you go into a deal with an asset in hand and a mentality of "I need position X and will give this asset for the best one I can" it almost always a bad position to be in.

I make deals and negotiate contracts for a living, you need to be able to manage assets and adapt as dictated by the situation. Being stuck on one idea or mentality will kill you.
If I negotiated like Chia I would be out of a job.


This was my point on the Hall trade, on the Ebs trade, even on the Pouliot buyout. It’s like Chia felt like he needed to show he was working so he made all these idiotic moves.

If he had done nothing, zero trades, drafted the next highest ranked player, the team would be a juggernaut right now.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740117 is a reply to message #740091 ]
Tue, 09 July 2019 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


I wonder if it wasn't more that all these teams knew how bad a negotiator Chiarelli is, and were trying to squeeze him to get him to throw in something more. He did put his cards on the table and say that he was going to have a right shot defenceman very soon...putting the heat on himself. Maybe these guys figured they could get the OILERS to throw in something extra...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740131 is a reply to message #740117 ]
Tue, 09 July 2019 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 14021
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Tue, 09 July 2019 08:34

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


I wonder if it wasn't more that all these teams knew how bad a negotiator Chiarelli is, and were trying to squeeze him to get him to throw in something more. He did put his cards on the table and say that he was going to have a right shot defenceman very soon...putting the heat on himself. Maybe these guys figured they could get the OILERS to throw in something extra...


Would a team looking at the prospect of getting a future Hart winner actually stop dead at offers like Ceci and then say no way if the ask started to go higher? Even a moron should be able to get a bidding war going for something other people are desperate to get. Looks like Chia at least had multiple teams involved, but the offers all maxed out at a pretty low level. If someone is trying to sell a piece of gold worth $10,000 that they think is copper and 5 people are involved, will everyone really stand by and let one of the guys get it for $100 just because they know the guy selling it doesn't know what it's worth?

I think Hall just had a really bad reputation around the league (perceived attitude, extra curricular activities), probably thanks partially to leaks by our org, and just generally being involved with so much losing here. Most GM's are not that far from us about the team culture aspects. If you wanted to move Hall, probably needed to wait until the team wasn't so terrible, which probably would have happened next season, and then you probably don't want to move Hall anyways then.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Hall for Ceci [message #740135 is a reply to message #740131 ]
Tue, 09 July 2019 10:08 Go to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 11568
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 July 2019 09:54

Adam wrote on Tue, 09 July 2019 08:34

Burgeoboy wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 18:51

Adam wrote on Mon, 08 July 2019 21:25

Tweet from Jason Gregor:

Quote:

"Apparently the Sabres turned down a Ristolainen for Taylor Hall deal a few years ago." Joe Yerdon now on @TSN1260


Apparently Chiarelli only had one plan for improving the Oilers - trading Hapl for a middling defenceman. Clearly he tried everyone. What a joke.


And apparently no one was willing to trade for Hall . I get the Hall deal was bad, but the more I hear theses stories , the more it’s clear, Chia got the best deal that was out there . Ever one Complains , one for one , he didn’t even get a pick, he should have gotten more, but it clear there wasn’t more out there to get. I said at the time , I didn’t like the deal, but understood it and I still feel that way, but as I suspected then , that was the best deal out there .

I 100 % agree he shouldn't’ have made the deal, but hopefully people well start to see , that there was no way he or anyone else was getting more, the market clearly wasn’t there. Sure we can hear these things and say omg, how bad was Chiarelli, but keep in mind these other teams didn’t take the deals, so although I have that reaction to, I also think holy s**t Halls value was super low. We well never have the full story, but the more I see these stories, I can’t help but think other big things were happening off the ice, like how could Halls value be so low?


I wonder if it wasn't more that all these teams knew how bad a negotiator Chiarelli is, and were trying to squeeze him to get him to throw in something more. He did put his cards on the table and say that he was going to have a right shot defenceman very soon...putting the heat on himself. Maybe these guys figured they could get the OILERS to throw in something extra...


Would a team looking at the prospect of getting a future Hart winner actually stop dead at offers like Ceci and then say no way if the ask started to go higher? Even a moron should be able to get a bidding war going for something other people are desperate to get. Looks like Chia at least had multiple teams involved, but the offers all maxed out at a pretty low level. If someone is trying to sell a piece of gold worth $10,000 that they think is copper and 5 people are involved, will everyone really stand by and let one of the guys get it for $100 just because they know the guy selling it doesn't know what it's worth?

I think Hall just had a really bad reputation around the league (perceived attitude, extra curricular activities), probably thanks partially to leaks by our org, and just generally being involved with so much losing here. Most GM's are not that far from us about the team culture aspects. If you wanted to move Hall, probably needed to wait until the team wasn't so terrible, which probably would have happened next season, and then you probably don't want to move Hall anyways then.


I think it's likely a bunch of these things. There was likely some negative perception of Hall from the losing and from the Oilers way of doing things, and the fact that Chiarelli seems to have been starting all these conversations by asking what teams would give him for Taylor Hall (which is consistent with his negotiating style with Seguin on the Behind the B tape, and is a HORRENDOUS way to approach it).

I think Chia's lack of negotiating prowess was well-known, so teams drew a line and waited to see if he'd crack. He did, just he could only crack with one team and he picked Larsson - which, to his credit, is probably better than Ristolainen or Ceci...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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