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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Philadelphia (Game #7) [message #700673 is a reply to message #700671 ]
Mon, 23 October 2017 08:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:23

I can't believe there is a debate about Yamo. Yes he's looked decent and he looks like he will be a player. But he's way too small. He needs to get stronger and when you are on McDavid's wing, you should be scoring. 3 assists isn't enough.


I can't believe there's ANY debate about Yamamoto. He's only put up 3 assists, despite playing a bunch of games with McDavid. He's got a bunch of shots, but only a handful of dangerous chances and he hasn't been scoring. There is just no good argument for keeping him here past his 9 game audition and blowing a year off his entry-level deal. We need good players on cheap contracts, so playing him now is not getting enough out of that deal.

He's had his audition, he's done just fine for a kid his age, but he shouldn't be with the team by the end of the week.

Only reason there's any doubt at all about this is that A) Edmonton sports media are terrible and are rarely capable of critical thought and B) the Oilers brass tends to blow these easy decisions about young players clearly not ready for prime time yet (see Draisaitl and Puljujarvi).

Although it's going to be heart-breaking to see the Oilers waste the contract space on Chris Kelly the second that he's sent down...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Philadelphia (Game #7) [message #700674 is a reply to message #700673 ]
Mon, 23 October 2017 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:23

I can't believe there is a debate about Yamo. Yes he's looked decent and he looks like he will be a player. But he's way too small. He needs to get stronger and when you are on McDavid's wing, you should be scoring. 3 assists isn't enough.


I can't believe there's ANY debate about Yamamoto. He's only put up 3 assists, despite playing a bunch of games with McDavid. He's got a bunch of shots, but only a handful of dangerous chances and he hasn't been scoring. There is just no good argument for keeping him here past his 9 game audition and blowing a year off his entry-level deal. We need good players on cheap contracts, so playing him now is not getting enough out of that deal.

He's had his audition, he's done just fine for a kid his age, but he shouldn't be with the team by the end of the week.

Only reason there's any doubt at all about this is that A) Edmonton sports media are terrible and are rarely capable of critical thought and B) the Oilers brass tends to blow these easy decisions about young players clearly not ready for prime time yet (see Draisaitl and Puljujarvi).

Although it's going to be heart-breaking to see the Oilers waste the contract space on Chris Kelly the second that he's sent down...


When Nuge was in his rookie season and there were some saying he needed to go back to junior to get stronger, Nuge lit it up in the preseason and I can't remember what he had to goals and points in the first 9 games but it was significant so he made it so they couldn't send him down. That was him centering a line, not riding shot gun with the best player in the world. I am excited about the potential of Yamo. It's been cool to see that he looks to have be a player but it's time.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Philadelphia (Game #7) [message #700675 is a reply to message #700673 ]
Mon, 23 October 2017 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:28



Only reason there's any doubt at all about this is that .....



He is our best (only?) option as a top 6 RW.
I am not on the side to keep him up but the Oilers painted themselves in this corner.



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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Philadelphia (Game #7) [message #700677 is a reply to message #700675 ]
Mon, 23 October 2017 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:28



Only reason there's any doubt at all about this is that .....



He is our best (only?) option as a top 6 RW.
I am not on the side to keep him up but the Oilers painted themselves in this corner.


See note on terrible Oilers management regarding young players, and sad tears that the team likely replaces him with Chris Kelly - actually making the team worse by sending an under-developed 19 year old back to junior.

Regardless of that, there are other ways to address the weakness, and keeping him past game 9 makes the team worse in the future without having any kind of game-breaker in the lineup this season.

Since RDOF was musing on it, I looked at Ryan Nugent-Hopkins first 9 games. He scored 5 goals and 4 assists in his first nine games. Night and day difference. +3 with 21 SOG. It really was a pretty fantastic start to his career. You do wonder what the biggest impacts have been on Nugent-Hopkins career. Was it the shoulder injuries? Was it the Oilers playing him through the shoulder injury in the lockout year? Was it the DERF? McLellan's stifle-the-offence system? I do wonder if he can still be the player he started out as...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Philadelphia (Game #7) [message #700683 is a reply to message #700677 ]
Mon, 23 October 2017 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 10:04

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:28



Only reason there's any doubt at all about this is that .....



He is our best (only?) option as a top 6 RW.
I am not on the side to keep him up but the Oilers painted themselves in this corner.


See note on terrible Oilers management regarding young players, and sad tears that the team likely replaces him with Chris Kelly - actually making the team worse by sending an under-developed 19 year old back to junior.

Regardless of that, there are other ways to address the weakness, and keeping him past game 9 makes the team worse in the future without having any kind of game-breaker in the lineup this season.

Since RDOF was musing on it, I looked at Ryan Nugent-Hopkins first 9 games. He scored 5 goals and 4 assists in his first nine games. Night and day difference. +3 with 21 SOG. It really was a pretty fantastic start to his career. You do wonder what the biggest impacts have been on Nugent-Hopkins career. Was it the shoulder injuries? Was it the Oilers playing him through the shoulder injury in the lockout year? Was it the DERF? McLellan's stifle-the-offence system? I do wonder if he can still be the player he started out as...



Ya, I get it. I am definitely still on the send him down side. I think the hope was that JP would fill that spot.
I think they will send him down post game 9 but pre game 41 (or whatever that second trigger is) and call up JP.
That will make it all but impossible for JP to hit any of his performance triggers freeing up a bit of cap space for a deadline deal.
Not the plan I would have had but that is well documented in my posting history...



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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Philadelphia (Game #7) [message #700684 is a reply to message #700677 ]
Mon, 23 October 2017 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 10:04

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 08:28



Only reason there's any doubt at all about this is that .....



He is our best (only?) option as a top 6 RW.
I am not on the side to keep him up but the Oilers painted themselves in this corner.


See note on terrible Oilers management regarding young players, and sad tears that the team likely replaces him with Chris Kelly - actually making the team worse by sending an under-developed 19 year old back to junior.

Regardless of that, there are other ways to address the weakness, and keeping him past game 9 makes the team worse in the future without having any kind of game-breaker in the lineup this season.

Since RDOF was musing on it, I looked at Ryan Nugent-Hopkins first 9 games. He scored 5 goals and 4 assists in his first nine games. Night and day difference. +3 with 21 SOG. It really was a pretty fantastic start to his career. You do wonder what the biggest impacts have been on Nugent-Hopkins career. Was it the shoulder injuries? Was it the Oilers playing him through the shoulder injury in the lockout year? Was it the DERF? McLellan's stifle-the-offence system? I do wonder if he can still be the player he started out as...


I really do wonder how much of a difference it would have made if Nuge was sent down to junior his first year? He was SO skinny and needed to get stronger. He ended up hurting his shoulder that year. Would it have still happened in junior? Maybe, maybe not. I am guessing probably not. Would another year of training helped him avoid that injury? Maybe. I don't blame the Oilers for keeping him up. He was a #1 overall, had as Adam said 9 pts in 9 games. Doesn't get too much better than a point per game. They needed centers.

For me in the case of Yamo, he might another case of a player that could use more development but is ready to step up to a higher level of competition. It's too bad he couldn't go to the AHL, learn the pro game, learn how to play against men, have pro coaches developing, have pro strength coaches getting him stronger rather than jumping on the bus playing against kids. Its too bad there isn't a rule where a team can designate 1 CHL player a year potentially to go to the AHL even if they aren't 20. I don't see any downside to him going back to junior. He will play a ton, hopefully will get stronger but he's going to be WAY better than most of the kids he goes up against. So while dominating kids won't hurt his game, I don't know how much it will help him. Deking around a 17 yr old dman or stealing a puck from a kid doesn't help you learn to do it against a man.



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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Philadelphia (Game #7) [message #700689 is a reply to message #700684 ]
Mon, 23 October 2017 11:36 Go to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 October 2017 11:08


I really do wonder how much of a difference it would have made if Nuge was sent down to junior his first year? He was SO skinny and needed to get stronger. He ended up hurting his shoulder that year. Would it have still happened in junior? Maybe, maybe not. I am guessing probably not. Would another year of training helped him avoid that injury? Maybe. I don't blame the Oilers for keeping him up. He was a #1 overall, had as Adam said 9 pts in 9 games. Doesn't get too much better than a point per game. They needed centers.

For me in the case of Yamo, he might another case of a player that could use more development but is ready to step up to a higher level of competition. It's too bad he couldn't go to the AHL, learn the pro game, learn how to play against men, have pro coaches developing, have pro strength coaches getting him stronger rather than jumping on the bus playing against kids. Its too bad there isn't a rule where a team can designate 1 CHL player a year potentially to go to the AHL even if they aren't 20. I don't see any downside to him going back to junior. He will play a ton, hopefully will get stronger but he's going to be WAY better than most of the kids he goes up against. So while dominating kids won't hurt his game, I don't know how much it will help him. Deking around a 17 yr old dman or stealing a puck from a kid doesn't help you learn to do it against a man.


I think there are still lots of things he can do. Challenge the kid to go win the scoring title, win the Memorial Cup, play well at the World Juniors, etc.

And you can give him homework when you send him packing. Get your strength and training coach to give him a regimen. Talk to him about diet. Tell him which aspects of the game he needs to excel at so that he can stick next year.

There's always something more he can prove. He's not Taylor Hall, coming in with back-to-back Memorial Cup MVP years...

I think we're all on the same page in here...he hasn't shown much to make me think we MUST keep him here. I don't think he's comparable to RNH other than in that they were both light. He's smaller, he's not a first overall pick and he's not producing at a similar rate, despite playing with a pretty good linemate.

It would be really nice if he could get his first goal, but other than that, I'm ready to see him sail off back to junior.

As for RNH, I do wonder about him and what might have been. Pretty phenomenal rookie campaign. He should have won the Calder. Maybe a better argument that he should have than McDavid even - tied for the rookie lead in points while playing 20 games less than Landeskog.

He gets injured that first season. Reinjures it in the AHL during the lockout. Keeps playing. Clearly hurts it again at the World Juniors. Keeps playing. Is clearly not able to shoot, and at some point stops taking faceoffs during regular season. Keeps playing until after Game 40. Has surgery so late in the year that he misses his entire training camp and the first two games of Year 3. Now gets saddled with Dallas Eakins. Comes back to play 25+ minutes a night right out of the gate on a team that's re-learning the basics of defence or whatever the hell Dallas was sketching out on his whiteboards...The we finally get rid of him, and we bring in McLellan who's killed off even strength offence from an awful lot of players...It hasn't exactly been smooth sailing for #93.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Philadelphia (Game #7) [message #700672 is a reply to message #700628 ]
Mon, 23 October 2017 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jones25  is currently offline Jones25
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Adam wrote on Sat, 21 October 2017 18:25

So that's 7 games played so far.

Oilers are 2-5-0. 26th best record in the league.

Opposition teams have picked up 11 out of a possible 14 points against us.

Goals for is 14 to date - good for 29th in the league. McDavid in on 8 of those (57.1%).

Our PP has contributed 4 of the goals, so we're scoring just under 1.5 even strength goals a game. (That's not good).

McDavid is in on 60% of the even strength goals. I believe his line is on for 70% (the Maroon goal today being the extra one.

Nugent-Hopkins line was on for the other three even strength goals this year (Nuge, Lucic, Russell). The third and fourth lines have contributed zippo.

The biggest debate about the team from Edmonton media members is whether the just-turned-19-rookie who's scored 0-3-3 in 7 games should be given a spot on the team past the 9 game audition.

Goaltending at least has been better the last two games!

I still think the team is better than they've shown, but this is a brutal start to the season and gives them a pretty big hole to climb out of. The weaknesses on defence and wing continue to be an issue and likely will plague the team this year.


That sounds about right. They are definitely not looking as good as their potential right now.

Here are a couple good rundowns of this game that put things into perspective:

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers /loss-hurts-but-oilers-believe-they-are-finding-their-game
https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/game-story-flyers-2-oilers-1 /c-292126002




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