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 Fire Tippett? [message #796980]
Wed, 05 January 2022 19:50 Go to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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That has to do it doesn't it? Or does the lack of 97 give him a free pass?


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #796981 is a reply to message #796980 ]
Wed, 05 January 2022 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz  is currently offline Skoobz
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I suppose he could kick a player during warmup - that worked for Urban Meyer.


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #796984 is a reply to message #796980 ]
Wed, 05 January 2022 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 05 January 2022 19:50

That has to do it doesn't it? Or does the lack of 97 give him a free pass?


I'd rather see them just get it over with and hope for a bump to stop the bleeding. It's not just this skid either, you can point to the loss in the play in against Chicago in terms of where the ticks on the ledger against the guy began, and they didn't stop there.

No guarantee a brand spanky new coach translates to competent hockey though.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #796990 is a reply to message #796980 ]
Wed, 05 January 2022 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Firing Tippett doesn't solve the problem. He's a mere symptom of the cancer, not the cancer itself. If the last 23 years have taught us anything it should be that putting lipstick on a pig doesn't work. The rot must be excised.

But let's imagine a coaching change is decided upon. Who is the replacement that can magically turn this lackluster club, as assembled, into something remotely resembling a contender. Not a playoff contender, but an actual real life Stanley Cup contender. We've tried legends, hall of famers, defensive wizards, young up-and-comers, outside the box thinkers, training wheels, sleepy old timers, and a couple other ones I'm forgetting. It ain't the coaching.

Screw it. Let's hire Babcock and take that last bullet out of Holland's gun. Hopefully that's the last bullet in Bobby Nick's gun. Which is the final bullet in the old boy's club gun. Which finally forced Katz to run a proper organization.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #796991 is a reply to message #796990 ]
Wed, 05 January 2022 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 05 January 2022 21:28

Firing Tippett doesn't solve the problem. He's a mere symptom of the cancer, not the cancer itself. If the last 23 years have taught us anything it should be that putting lipstick on a pig doesn't work. The rot must be excised.

But let's imagine a coaching change is decided upon. Who is the replacement that can magically turn this lackluster club, as assembled, into something remotely resembling a contender. Not a playoff contender, but an actual real life Stanley Cup contender. We've tried legends, hall of famers, defensive wizards, young up-and-comers, outside the box thinkers, training wheels, sleepy old timers, and a couple other ones I'm forgetting. It ain't the coaching.

Screw it. Let's hire Babcock and take that last bullet out of Holland's gun. Hopefully that's the last bullet in Bobby Nick's gun. Which is the final bullet in the old boy's club gun. Which finally forced Katz to run a proper organization.

The Babcock Barrie reconnection would be fun. Who else played under him? Ceci? Hyman?



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #796992 is a reply to message #796990 ]
Thu, 06 January 2022 00:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 05 January 2022 21:28

Firing Tippett doesn't solve the problem. He's a mere symptom of the cancer, not the cancer itself. If the last 23 years have taught us anything it should be that putting lipstick on a pig doesn't work. The rot must be excised.

But let's imagine a coaching change is decided upon. Who is the replacement that can magically turn this lackluster club, as assembled, into something remotely resembling a contender. Not a playoff contender, but an actual real life Stanley Cup contender. We've tried legends, hall of famers, defensive wizards, young up-and-comers, outside the box thinkers, training wheels, sleepy old timers, and a couple other ones I'm forgetting. It ain't the coaching.

Screw it. Let's hire Babcock and take that last bullet out of Holland's gun. Hopefully that's the last bullet in Bobby Nick's gun. Which is the final bullet in the old boy's club gun. Which finally forced Katz to run a proper organization.


This is where I'm at. It's unlikely that a coaching change is going to take us to a Stanley Cup this year. But it removes the excuse that it was the coach at the end of this season if we flame out once more. The team has positioned so that they can blame Tippett and then Holland, Nicholson and Lowe skate for at least one more year. But Tippett is floundering so badly now that they may be forced to make a move early and I can only see that as a good thing. He then can't be the bullet proof vest at the end of the year.

Only issue is if they decide to go "interim coach" with Gulutzan though. They could use that to say they need a real coach in the off-season. I still think that reflects poorly on the management, but I mean, it's the Oilers. No matter what happens, there will be some of them who get to keep their jobs and make more bad decisions.

I'm worried that if they weren't to even make the playoffs, then we have McDavid asking to get out, and that's the ballgame. Especially if we have Holland the one who's trading him - good lord, can you imagine that?!




"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #796996 is a reply to message #796980 ]
Thu, 06 January 2022 01:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Fire him ASAP.

We know how this goes. Can't get rid of Holland until he gets another coach. Then when Holland is out you just pray they ran out of Hockey Canada and Kevin Lowe buddies to fill the role. They haven't of course, but at least we tried.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #796997 is a reply to message #796980 ]
Thu, 06 January 2022 07:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hitmen4  is currently offline hitmen4
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Absolutely Tippett must go. Year 7 of McDavid and they are content with a coach who has a 1-7 playoff record with the team. A team that has 2 of the best (if not the 2 best) offensive talents in the league. Tippet shouldn't have made it to this year, but alas, here he is.

I get the roster isn't exactly the best and there is a legitimate conversation to be had about what Holland's future should be, but Tippet makes this roster worse.

On paper this bottom 6 looked like the best we'd had in years, yet they are performing worse than ever before. Actual goal share without McDavid, Drai or Nuge on the ice is lower than anything we've seen since McDavid entered the league and is the worst in the NHL. Even Arizona without their best 3 players is outscoring Edmonton's bottom 6. You know, the historically bad team that is built with the singular purpose to lose hockey games.

The defense is horrendous.

This team is as fragile as ever. Saw a stat before the game last night that when the Oilers are leading or tied after the 1st period they are 18-1. When they are down after 1 they are 0-12-2. That's a fragile team who loses all composure when things don't immediately go their way.

Tippet routinely throws players under the bus (Koskinen, Benson, Bear, etc.) to cover for his own failings and his in game management is horrible. How can one expect the team to come together in one cohesive unit if players are singled out and blamed for the TEAMS failures? At the first sign of trouble his only move is to immediately put McDavid and Drai together even though it doesn't really work anymore. Actual goal share with McDavid and Draisaitl on the ice together 5v5 this year is 12-11. Teams know how to stop this now yet it's the only move he's got.

I could keep going on this topic really, but bottom line it comes down to this: We are on year 7 of McDavid and this team is floundering. The goal should not be "just make playoffs" - the standard has to be higher than that. Tippett is not the guy to get us where we need to go. That alone should be grounds for his dismissal.

[Updated on: Thu, 06 January 2022 08:08]


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797001 is a reply to message #796997 ]
Thu, 06 January 2022 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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I think changing the coach is inevitable. It's the one easy thing you can do. Ideally you do it right away as you only have 1 game thanks to all the lame postponed games it would give the coaches time to maybe make adjustments. I'd probably go interm with Gulitzan and Playfair both having head coaching experience. Then you can let Woodcroft finish the year in Bakersfield so he gets that last bit of experience and promote or go outside.

That being said, I am not sure what a new coaching staff will do as I see roster problems.

#1 They are WAY to easy to play against. I am sure the usual will call me old school or neanderthal but the team is not physical enough, does not have enough guys willing to go to the hard areas or battle. There is way, way too many of the same. In the top 6, there are 2 guys who are willing to go to the net, 2!! Hyman will for sure, JP usually and very few who can win puck battles or push back when things get hard. McD doesn't do it, nor do I think he should have too. Leon is big and strong but doesn't do that nor should he. Yamo is tiny, is kind of sort of scrappy but at his size he gets pushed around and up until recently, he can be easily eliminated. Nuge plays a perimeter game, always has, always will.

Bottom 6. Way too many soft guys. Foegele is a keeper. McLeod I like but is way too soft. He's big and fast but my god you'd think finishing a check was a crime by how he plays. Turris is useless and soft. Benson doesn't play a in your face, tough to play against game. Shore is a bit better than most but not overly physical either. Perlini is not hard to play against. Sceviour I actually like because he is one of the few that knows his role and does it every game. Then you factor in Ryan who was out and who I like as a 4th line center but he is small and not physical. If he had 2 bigger wingers, he'd be OK but he doesn't.

Then you look at the defense. They can move the puck but now of them are overly physical or hard to play against. When they had Niemelinen in, I think he added a dimension they need.

In contrast, even the Leafs have some guys who either hit or mix it up.
Kerfoot is a chippy, s disturber.
Simmonds will hit you and mixes it up.
Ritchie is like Simmonds.
Spezza isn't necessarily a banger but he's a big body that goes to the hard areas and is hard to play against.
Tavares is similar to Spezza but he is not a perimeter player, he scores a lot of goals in tight and he battles.
Matthews is not physical but he's a big body that goes to the net and scores lots of goals in tight and can battle and is a lot to handle.
Holl hits guys and is chippy.
Muzzin hits guys and is chippy.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797002 is a reply to message #797001 ]
Thu, 06 January 2022 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 06 January 2022 09:17

I think changing the coach is inevitable. It's the one easy thing you can do. Ideally you do it right away as you only have 1 game thanks to all the lame postponed games it would give the coaches time to maybe make adjustments. I'd probably go interm with Gulitzan and Playfair both having head coaching experience. Then you can let Woodcroft finish the year in Bakersfield so he gets that last bit of experience and promote or go outside.

That being said, I am not sure what a new coaching staff will do as I see roster problems.

#1 They are WAY to easy to play against. I am sure the usual will call me old school or neanderthal but the team is not physical enough, does not have enough guys willing to go to the hard areas or battle. There is way, way too many of the same. In the top 6, there are 2 guys who are willing to go to the net, 2!! Hyman will for sure, JP usually and very few who can win puck battles or push back when things get hard. McD doesn't do it, nor do I think he should have too. Leon is big and strong but doesn't do that nor should he. Yamo is tiny, is kind of sort of scrappy but at his size he gets pushed around and up until recently, he can be easily eliminated. Nuge plays a perimeter game, always has, always will.

Bottom 6. Way too many soft guys. Foegele is a keeper. McLeod I like but is way too soft. He's big and fast but my god you'd think finishing a check was a crime by how he plays. Turris is useless and soft. Benson doesn't play a in your face, tough to play against game. Shore is a bit better than most but not overly physical either. Perlini is not hard to play against. Sceviour I actually like because he is one of the few that knows his role and does it every game. Then you factor in Ryan who was out and who I like as a 4th line center but he is small and not physical. If he had 2 bigger wingers, he'd be OK but he doesn't.

Then you look at the defense. They can move the puck but now of them are overly physical or hard to play against. When they had Niemelinen in, I think he added a dimension they need.

In contrast, even the Leafs have some guys who either hit or mix it up.
Kerfoot is a chippy, s disturber.
Simmonds will hit you and mixes it up.
Ritchie is like Simmonds.
Spezza isn't necessarily a banger but he's a big body that goes to the hard areas and is hard to play against.
Tavares is similar to Spezza but he is not a perimeter player, he scores a lot of goals in tight and he battles.
Matthews is not physical but he's a big body that goes to the net and scores lots of goals in tight and can battle and is a lot to handle.
Holl hits guys and is chippy.
Muzzin hits guys and is chippy.


So if I’m reading you right, then the fault ultimately lies here with Holland and we should get a new GM too, right? He’s the guy in charge of roster construction after all!



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797004 is a reply to message #797002 ]
Thu, 06 January 2022 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 06 January 2022 09:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 06 January 2022 09:17

I think changing the coach is inevitable. It's the one easy thing you can do. Ideally you do it right away as you only have 1 game thanks to all the lame postponed games it would give the coaches time to maybe make adjustments. I'd probably go interm with Gulitzan and Playfair both having head coaching experience. Then you can let Woodcroft finish the year in Bakersfield so he gets that last bit of experience and promote or go outside.

That being said, I am not sure what a new coaching staff will do as I see roster problems.

#1 They are WAY to easy to play against. I am sure the usual will call me old school or neanderthal but the team is not physical enough, does not have enough guys willing to go to the hard areas or battle. There is way, way too many of the same. In the top 6, there are 2 guys who are willing to go to the net, 2!! Hyman will for sure, JP usually and very few who can win puck battles or push back when things get hard. McD doesn't do it, nor do I think he should have too. Leon is big and strong but doesn't do that nor should he. Yamo is tiny, is kind of sort of scrappy but at his size he gets pushed around and up until recently, he can be easily eliminated. Nuge plays a perimeter game, always has, always will.

Bottom 6. Way too many soft guys. Foegele is a keeper. McLeod I like but is way too soft. He's big and fast but my god you'd think finishing a check was a crime by how he plays. Turris is useless and soft. Benson doesn't play a in your face, tough to play against game. Shore is a bit better than most but not overly physical either. Perlini is not hard to play against. Sceviour I actually like because he is one of the few that knows his role and does it every game. Then you factor in Ryan who was out and who I like as a 4th line center but he is small and not physical. If he had 2 bigger wingers, he'd be OK but he doesn't.

Then you look at the defense. They can move the puck but now of them are overly physical or hard to play against. When they had Niemelinen in, I think he added a dimension they need.

In contrast, even the Leafs have some guys who either hit or mix it up.
Kerfoot is a chippy, s disturber.
Simmonds will hit you and mixes it up.
Ritchie is like Simmonds.
Spezza isn't necessarily a banger but he's a big body that goes to the hard areas and is hard to play against.
Tavares is similar to Spezza but he is not a perimeter player, he scores a lot of goals in tight and he battles.
Matthews is not physical but he's a big body that goes to the net and scores lots of goals in tight and can battle and is a lot to handle.
Holl hits guys and is chippy.
Muzzin hits guys and is chippy.


So if I’m reading you right, then the fault ultimately lies here with Holland and we should get a new GM too, right? He’s the guy in charge of roster construction after all!

I do think that some of the issues are on players doing dumb stuff. When you are in position to pick up a man defensively and you don't do it for whatever reason and he fires it in, I can't blame the coach.
I do think some of the issues goaltending wise are flat out mental mistakes so I can't blame the coach or GM.
I do think that some of the plays the entire team does game after game are just stupid. Going for the low percentage pass vs shooting. I think of the 2 on 1 vs the Isles. Everyone in the rink knew McD was passing, the Dman was selling out to block the pass but rather than shoot, he passes and nothing happens. I am not saying for 1 second it's all McD's fault so relax, just using 1 recent easy example to illustrate that as a team they don't see to like to do the easy plays. Everything needs to be flashy and hard. McLeod deciding to pass instead of firing into an open net last night is another example.
I do think the players could be deployed differently at forward. Things aren't working so change it up. I also do not think Tippett uses having 2 nuclear weapons in McD and Leon properly. He loads up their lines when you could put 1 "lesser guy" with them to improve depth.

But yes, I also think that roster make up is an issue and that is on Holland. The question I have is the guys he picked are they guys that Tippett recommended as well as liking or did he just go on his own? I'd assume the coach would have input as to who is on the team because he has to physically coach them.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797006 is a reply to message #797004 ]
Thu, 06 January 2022 11:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 06 January 2022 10:09

Adam wrote on Thu, 06 January 2022 09:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 06 January 2022 09:17

I think changing the coach is inevitable. It's the one easy thing you can do. Ideally you do it right away as you only have 1 game thanks to all the lame postponed games it would give the coaches time to maybe make adjustments. I'd probably go interm with Gulitzan and Playfair both having head coaching experience. Then you can let Woodcroft finish the year in Bakersfield so he gets that last bit of experience and promote or go outside.

That being said, I am not sure what a new coaching staff will do as I see roster problems.

#1 They are WAY to easy to play against. I am sure the usual will call me old school or neanderthal but the team is not physical enough, does not have enough guys willing to go to the hard areas or battle. There is way, way too many of the same. In the top 6, there are 2 guys who are willing to go to the net, 2!! Hyman will for sure, JP usually and very few who can win puck battles or push back when things get hard. McD doesn't do it, nor do I think he should have too. Leon is big and strong but doesn't do that nor should he. Yamo is tiny, is kind of sort of scrappy but at his size he gets pushed around and up until recently, he can be easily eliminated. Nuge plays a perimeter game, always has, always will.

Bottom 6. Way too many soft guys. Foegele is a keeper. McLeod I like but is way too soft. He's big and fast but my god you'd think finishing a check was a crime by how he plays. Turris is useless and soft. Benson doesn't play a in your face, tough to play against game. Shore is a bit better than most but not overly physical either. Perlini is not hard to play against. Sceviour I actually like because he is one of the few that knows his role and does it every game. Then you factor in Ryan who was out and who I like as a 4th line center but he is small and not physical. If he had 2 bigger wingers, he'd be OK but he doesn't.

Then you look at the defense. They can move the puck but now of them are overly physical or hard to play against. When they had Niemelinen in, I think he added a dimension they need.

In contrast, even the Leafs have some guys who either hit or mix it up.
Kerfoot is a chippy, s disturber.
Simmonds will hit you and mixes it up.
Ritchie is like Simmonds.
Spezza isn't necessarily a banger but he's a big body that goes to the hard areas and is hard to play against.
Tavares is similar to Spezza but he is not a perimeter player, he scores a lot of goals in tight and he battles.
Matthews is not physical but he's a big body that goes to the net and scores lots of goals in tight and can battle and is a lot to handle.
Holl hits guys and is chippy.
Muzzin hits guys and is chippy.


So if I’m reading you right, then the fault ultimately lies here with Holland and we should get a new GM too, right? He’s the guy in charge of roster construction after all!

I do think that some of the issues are on players doing dumb stuff. When you are in position to pick up a man defensively and you don't do it for whatever reason and he fires it in, I can't blame the coach.
I do think some of the issues goaltending wise are flat out mental mistakes so I can't blame the coach or GM.
I do think that some of the plays the entire team does game after game are just stupid. Going for the low percentage pass vs shooting. I think of the 2 on 1 vs the Isles. Everyone in the rink knew McD was passing, the Dman was selling out to block the pass but rather than shoot, he passes and nothing happens. I am not saying for 1 second it's all McD's fault so relax, just using 1 recent easy example to illustrate that as a team they don't see to like to do the easy plays. Everything needs to be flashy and hard. McLeod deciding to pass instead of firing into an open net last night is another example.
I do think the players could be deployed differently at forward. Things aren't working so change it up. I also do not think Tippett uses having 2 nuclear weapons in McD and Leon properly. He loads up their lines when you could put 1 "lesser guy" with them to improve depth.

But yes, I also think that roster make up is an issue and that is on Holland. The question I have is the guys he picked are they guys that Tippett recommended as well as liking or did he just go on his own? I'd assume the coach would have input as to who is on the team because he has to physically coach them.


There is no way that I give the GM the benefit of the doubt on that. If he wasn't on board with Tippett's vision of the roster, he's the boss. Either you tell the coach that you're not going his route, or you make a change behind the bench or there's no excuse. The roster is the GM's responsibility so if he's giving that responsibility away, he still wears it if things go bad. Simply saying that Tippett wanted older, crappier defencemen should just get him fired equally as fast as admitting he wanted that himself.

Same with coaching decisions - if you want to say that he did an okay job rebuilding the bottom six, but the coach isn't playing them properly, that's still on Holland because he's watching us lose and not making a change. If ultimately he thinks his acquisitions are being poorly deployed, then he should have sacked the coach before now.

Ultimately this all comes back to the guy with the power to make decisions. His incompetence is shining through.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797003 is a reply to message #797001 ]
Thu, 06 January 2022 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hitmen4  is currently offline hitmen4
Messages: 29
Registered: April 2010

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 06 January 2022 09:17

I think changing the coach is inevitable. It's the one easy thing you can do. Ideally you do it right away as you only have 1 game thanks to all the lame postponed games it would give the coaches time to maybe make adjustments. I'd probably go interm with Gulitzan and Playfair both having head coaching experience. Then you can let Woodcroft finish the year in Bakersfield so he gets that last bit of experience and promote or go outside.

That being said, I am not sure what a new coaching staff will do as I see roster problems.

#1 They are WAY to easy to play against. I am sure the usual will call me old school or neanderthal but the team is not physical enough, does not have enough guys willing to go to the hard areas or battle. There is way, way too many of the same. In the top 6, there are 2 guys who are willing to go to the net, 2!! Hyman will for sure, JP usually and very few who can win puck battles or push back when things get hard. McD doesn't do it, nor do I think he should have too. Leon is big and strong but doesn't do that nor should he. Yamo is tiny, is kind of sort of scrappy but at his size he gets pushed around and up until recently, he can be easily eliminated. Nuge plays a perimeter game, always has, always will.

Bottom 6. Way too many soft guys. Foegele is a keeper. McLeod I like but is way too soft. He's big and fast but my god you'd think finishing a check was a crime by how he plays. Turris is useless and soft. Benson doesn't play a in your face, tough to play against game. Shore is a bit better than most but not overly physical either. Perlini is not hard to play against. Sceviour I actually like because he is one of the few that knows his role and does it every game. Then you factor in Ryan who was out and who I like as a 4th line center but he is small and not physical. If he had 2 bigger wingers, he'd be OK but he doesn't.

Then you look at the defense. They can move the puck but now of them are overly physical or hard to play against. When they had Niemelinen in, I think he added a dimension they need.

In contrast, even the Leafs have some guys who either hit or mix it up.
Kerfoot is a chippy, s disturber.
Simmonds will hit you and mixes it up.
Ritchie is like Simmonds.
Spezza isn't necessarily a banger but he's a big body that goes to the hard areas and is hard to play against.
Tavares is similar to Spezza but he is not a perimeter player, he scores a lot of goals in tight and he battles.
Matthews is not physical but he's a big body that goes to the net and scores lots of goals in tight and can battle and is a lot to handle.
Holl hits guys and is chippy.
Muzzin hits guys and is chippy.


To me this is as much of a team culture thing than a roster issue. This is squarely on the coaching staff and the team leadership. Teams don't need to be full of big plugs (Reaves, Kassian, Ritchie, etc.) to play physical. It's about effort and the willingness to do it. Being hard to play against and the give a damn factor are not just for the big guys.

Coaching staff and the team leadership are the ones who need to be driving this. I'd argue that the coach's role in establishing the team's culture are just as, if not more, important than the X's & O's. This is the highest level of hockey in the world, the systems don't differ that much from team to team. But team culture does. Jon Cooper might be the best coach in the league and he doesn't even deal with the systems. This is Tippett's biggest failure in my eyes - when the chips are down his team crumbles. He scapegoats his players, refuses to defend them in the media, refuses to standup and call out bad officiating & holds his favourites to different standards than other players.




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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797044 is a reply to message #797003 ]
Fri, 07 January 2022 05:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clutchlikeeberle  is currently offline clutchlikeeberle
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Hitman, excuse the pun, but you have hit the nail on the head. No one in a country mile can watch this team and see that JP doesn't deserve a bigger role, that benson and mcleod are on the verge and need more ice time then turris and shore. (PS: I like what Shore brings as 12/13 fwd). Bouch needs more PP time (I also like Barrie too). The pieces are there. Skinner's play is far superior to the other guys; let him ride it out. Whats the worst can happen? Loose 10 straight...


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797046 is a reply to message #796980 ]
Fri, 07 January 2022 07:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mullet  is currently offline Mullet
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I think they wait till the end of the season. It makes little sense to take on a new contract for a qualified coach and they will likely rush and make another mistake. In addition to that, I think if we miss the GM should go as well so you are better off doing the big overhaul in the summer.

If they do it sooner than latter they have to do Gully as you don't want to disrupt your development in the AHL which is seemingly working in the AHL.

This may waste another year of McD and Drai but what's new this management group is flawed and they need new blood.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797054 is a reply to message #797046 ]
Fri, 07 January 2022 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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Mullet wrote on Fri, 07 January 2022 07:39

I think they wait till the end of the season. It makes little sense to take on a new contract for a qualified coach and they will likely rush and make another mistake. In addition to that, I think if we miss the GM should go as well so you are better off doing the big overhaul in the summer.

If they do it sooner than latter they have to do Gully as you don't want to disrupt your development in the AHL which is seemingly working in the AHL.

This may waste another year of McD and Drai but what's new this management group is flawed and they need new blood.


Well that's as good a strategy as any provided from the peanut gallery here, but your last sentence might encourage a short term reaction in attempt to salvage this season. I think it's probably super important to the organization to take measures to progress rather than spin wheels or regress, not just for the market but for these 2 players. I can't imagine much patience for this season.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797074 is a reply to message #797054 ]
Sat, 08 January 2022 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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We are now officially out of a playoff spot. And if the Kings hold on, then we’ll have at least 2 teams to pass. Behind McLellan and Eakins coached teams no less. Dallas only 2 points behind us with 3 games in hand. Hell, even the Canucks are only 3 back. We could easily find ourselves in 13th place in the conference needing to leapfrog 5 teams by the time we play again. nono


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797077 is a reply to message #797074 ]
Sat, 08 January 2022 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Mike wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 20:14

We are now officially out of a playoff spot. And if the Kings hold on, then we’ll have at least 2 teams to pass. Behind McLellan and Eakins coached teams no less. Dallas only 2 points behind us with 3 games in hand. Hell, even the Canucks are only 3 back. We could easily find ourselves in 13th place in the conference needing to leapfrog 5 teams by the time we play again. nono


Holland just needs a little more time to look at things before he decides to not fire Dave Tippett.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797078 is a reply to message #797077 ]
Sat, 08 January 2022 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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smyth260 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:31

Mike wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 20:14

We are now officially out of a playoff spot. And if the Kings hold on, then we’ll have at least 2 teams to pass. Behind McLellan and Eakins coached teams no less. Dallas only 2 points behind us with 3 games in hand. Hell, even the Canucks are only 3 back. We could easily find ourselves in 13th place in the conference needing to leapfrog 5 teams by the time we play again. nono


Holland just needs a little more time to look at things before he decides to not fire Dave Tippett.


Waiting for Babcock to make the decision for him.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797080 is a reply to message #797078 ]
Sun, 09 January 2022 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:44

smyth260 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:31

Mike wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 20:14

We are now officially out of a playoff spot. And if the Kings hold on, then we’ll have at least 2 teams to pass. Behind McLellan and Eakins coached teams no less. Dallas only 2 points behind us with 3 games in hand. Hell, even the Canucks are only 3 back. We could easily find ourselves in 13th place in the conference needing to leapfrog 5 teams by the time we play again. nono


Holland just needs a little more time to look at things before he decides to not fire Dave Tippett.


Waiting for Babcock to make the decision for him.


The Babcock era would probably persuade me to stop watching the Oilers. My in-life experiences with Babcock have been extremely poor. He treats fans like their peasants and he puts on this game demeanour when their is a microphone in front of him.

Not too mention how Babcock treated Barrie during his time as HC. With Barrie being part of the core group, I can’t see this helping a troubled headspace in the current locker room.

The only correct answer in my opinion is Woodcroft. Ol’Babs need to get cancelled.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797089 is a reply to message #797078 ]
Sun, 09 January 2022 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:44

smyth260 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:31

Mike wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 20:14

We are now officially out of a playoff spot. And if the Kings hold on, then we’ll have at least 2 teams to pass. Behind McLellan and Eakins coached teams no less. Dallas only 2 points behind us with 3 games in hand. Hell, even the Canucks are only 3 back. We could easily find ourselves in 13th place in the conference needing to leapfrog 5 teams by the time we play again. nono


Holland just needs a little more time to look at things before he decides to not fire Dave Tippett.


Waiting for Babcock to make the decision for him.


Almost a week before the next game. Now's the time Kenny!



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797090 is a reply to message #797089 ]
Sun, 09 January 2022 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Sun, 09 January 2022 13:56

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:44

smyth260 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:31

Mike wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 20:14

We are now officially out of a playoff spot. And if the Kings hold on, then we’ll have at least 2 teams to pass. Behind McLellan and Eakins coached teams no less. Dallas only 2 points behind us with 3 games in hand. Hell, even the Canucks are only 3 back. We could easily find ourselves in 13th place in the conference needing to leapfrog 5 teams by the time we play again. nono


Holland just needs a little more time to look at things before he decides to not fire Dave Tippett.


Waiting for Babcock to make the decision for him.


Almost a week before the next game. Now's the time Kenny!

Nah. Why bother. The players are coming back from covid and the current coach will have time to assess what's happened over the past month.

I still don't want those people making this decision. They're simply not capable of doing it successfully.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797092 is a reply to message #797090 ]
Sun, 09 January 2022 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 09 January 2022 14:02

Adam wrote on Sun, 09 January 2022 13:56

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:44

smyth260 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:31

Mike wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 20:14

We are now officially out of a playoff spot. And if the Kings hold on, then we’ll have at least 2 teams to pass. Behind McLellan and Eakins coached teams no less. Dallas only 2 points behind us with 3 games in hand. Hell, even the Canucks are only 3 back. We could easily find ourselves in 13th place in the conference needing to leapfrog 5 teams by the time we play again. nono


Holland just needs a little more time to look at things before he decides to not fire Dave Tippett.


Waiting for Babcock to make the decision for him.


Almost a week before the next game. Now's the time Kenny!

Nah. Why bother. The players are coming back from covid and the current coach will have time to assess what's happened over the past month.

I still don't want those people making this decision. They're simply not capable of doing it successfully.


I expect you're right about that, but that I'm also right that the team will let these people make this decision whenever they flush this coach. If they do that after this season, then there is zero chance of a summer without Holland because they'll have changed the coach and really, what more can people ask for or expect?!



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797093 is a reply to message #797092 ]
Sun, 09 January 2022 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Sun, 09 January 2022 14:27

CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 09 January 2022 14:02

Adam wrote on Sun, 09 January 2022 13:56

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:44

smyth260 wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 22:31

Mike wrote on Sat, 08 January 2022 20:14

We are now officially out of a playoff spot. And if the Kings hold on, then we’ll have at least 2 teams to pass. Behind McLellan and Eakins coached teams no less. Dallas only 2 points behind us with 3 games in hand. Hell, even the Canucks are only 3 back. We could easily find ourselves in 13th place in the conference needing to leapfrog 5 teams by the time we play again. nono


Holland just needs a little more time to look at things before he decides to not fire Dave Tippett.


Waiting for Babcock to make the decision for him.


Almost a week before the next game. Now's the time Kenny!

Nah. Why bother. The players are coming back from covid and the current coach will have time to assess what's happened over the past month.

I still don't want those people making this decision. They're simply not capable of doing it successfully.


I expect you're right about that, but that I'm also right that the team will let these people make this decision whenever they flush this coach. If they do that after this season, then there is zero chance of a summer without Holland because they'll have changed the coach and really, what more can people ask for or expect?!

You're definitely right. I'm simply sick of half measures and moves for PR purposes from senior management. I see us fans as being so damaged by two plus decades of demonstrably horrific management that we've started to view kicking the can down the road as a sign of progress. It's not. Even if the next coach is Holland and Nicholson's last chance there's no reason to expect they'll be replaced by competent management when their time to retire the old boy's wine club comes. What happens if getting rid of Tippett causes the Oilers to get rid of Holland and Bobby Nicks this summer? They just get replaced by who? Doug Armstrong? He's free now and he was good enough to run the Olympic team for Canada for a while.

The only solution that sees the Oilers become a successful hockey club and, more importantly, McDavid staying here for that is a sudden burst of competence. I have seen nothing to suggest anyone in the Oilers' organization is capable of that.

It would make more sense to me for the Oilers to fire the coach when season ticket renewals go out.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797098 is a reply to message #797093 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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Tom Renney for GM and Ralph Krueger for coach! Never tried that combo before!


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797106 is a reply to message #797093 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 09 January 2022 15:35


You're definitely right. I'm simply sick of half measures and moves for PR purposes from senior management. I see us fans as being so damaged by two plus decades of demonstrably horrific management that we've started to view kicking the can down the road as a sign of progress. It's not. Even if the next coach is Holland and Nicholson's last chance there's no reason to expect they'll be replaced by competent management when their time to retire the old boy's wine club comes. What happens if getting rid of Tippett causes the Oilers to get rid of Holland and Bobby Nicks this summer? They just get replaced by who? Doug Armstrong? He's free now and he was good enough to run the Olympic team for Canada for a while.

The only solution that sees the Oilers become a successful hockey club and, more importantly, McDavid staying here for that is a sudden burst of competence. I have seen nothing to suggest anyone in the Oilers' organization is capable of that.

It would make more sense to me for the Oilers to fire the coach when season ticket renewals go out.


I'm all for cleaning house and flushing all those guys. I think that no one is likely to mourn the departures of Lowe, Nicholson or Holland too. I think that there's a possibility that Holland is on the verge of cratering out with the temperature in the fan base rising and with stars likely getting frustrated here, but that the team will give him one more shot. The sooner he gets that shot the better.

I think there's a possibility that when Holland goes, it takes down Nicholson too...but you're right. It's still Lowe there then, and he is always going to defer to people who played in the 1980s or were somehow involved in picking Team Canada.

I don't know what it takes for Katz to get upset enough to make a real change. He just always seems to take criticism of management personally as if they're one and the same. Maybe McDavid can force some level of change, although I fear that they tried to make him happy this summer by targeting players he knows, and they may point to how some of those have gone to try to defuse his anger at management.

It's suddenly a real, real possibility that we don't win a Cup in the McDavid era...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797110 is a reply to message #797106 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 12:22


I'm all for cleaning house and flushing all those guys. I think that no one is likely to mourn the departures of Lowe, Nicholson or Holland too. I think that there's a possibility that Holland is on the verge of cratering out with the temperature in the fan base rising and with stars likely getting frustrated here, but that the team will give him one more shot. The sooner he gets that shot the better.

I think there's a possibility that when Holland goes, it takes down Nicholson too...but you're right. It's still Lowe there then, and he is always going to defer to people who played in the 1980s or were somehow involved in picking Team Canada.

I don't know what it takes for Katz to get upset enough to make a real change. He just always seems to take criticism of management personally as if they're one and the same. Maybe McDavid can force some level of change, although I fear that they tried to make him happy this summer by targeting players he knows, and they may point to how some of those have gone to try to defuse his anger at management.

It's suddenly a real, real possibility that we don't win a Cup in the McDavid era...

I would suggest the Oilers are unlikely to seriously challenge for a Cup in the McDavid era at this point. They have obvious fatal flaws (plural) with no outward indication that they're even considering fixing them. As for McDavid, we're 7 years into this rebuild. I don't see him as the fix for what ails Edmonton management.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797113 is a reply to message #797110 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 15:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 12:22


I'm all for cleaning house and flushing all those guys. I think that no one is likely to mourn the departures of Lowe, Nicholson or Holland too. I think that there's a possibility that Holland is on the verge of cratering out with the temperature in the fan base rising and with stars likely getting frustrated here, but that the team will give him one more shot. The sooner he gets that shot the better.

I think there's a possibility that when Holland goes, it takes down Nicholson too...but you're right. It's still Lowe there then, and he is always going to defer to people who played in the 1980s or were somehow involved in picking Team Canada.

I don't know what it takes for Katz to get upset enough to make a real change. He just always seems to take criticism of management personally as if they're one and the same. Maybe McDavid can force some level of change, although I fear that they tried to make him happy this summer by targeting players he knows, and they may point to how some of those have gone to try to defuse his anger at management.

It's suddenly a real, real possibility that we don't win a Cup in the McDavid era...

I would suggest the Oilers are unlikely to seriously challenge for a Cup in the McDavid era at this point. They have obvious fatal flaws (plural) with no outward indication that they're even considering fixing them. As for McDavid, we're 7 years into this rebuild. I don't see him as the fix for what ails Edmonton management.


Serious question - is there anything short of McDavid asking to leave that would make Katz clean house? They've had enough GMs and coaches, and honestly, if not for McDavid and Draisaitl, after all these years, would be be any better than a lottery team? Hell, we're barely better than that WITH them...



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797114 is a reply to message #797113 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Mike wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:24

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 15:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 12:22


I'm all for cleaning house and flushing all those guys. I think that no one is likely to mourn the departures of Lowe, Nicholson or Holland too. I think that there's a possibility that Holland is on the verge of cratering out with the temperature in the fan base rising and with stars likely getting frustrated here, but that the team will give him one more shot. The sooner he gets that shot the better.

I think there's a possibility that when Holland goes, it takes down Nicholson too...but you're right. It's still Lowe there then, and he is always going to defer to people who played in the 1980s or were somehow involved in picking Team Canada.

I don't know what it takes for Katz to get upset enough to make a real change. He just always seems to take criticism of management personally as if they're one and the same. Maybe McDavid can force some level of change, although I fear that they tried to make him happy this summer by targeting players he knows, and they may point to how some of those have gone to try to defuse his anger at management.

It's suddenly a real, real possibility that we don't win a Cup in the McDavid era...

I would suggest the Oilers are unlikely to seriously challenge for a Cup in the McDavid era at this point. They have obvious fatal flaws (plural) with no outward indication that they're even considering fixing them. As for McDavid, we're 7 years into this rebuild. I don't see him as the fix for what ails Edmonton management.


Serious question - is there anything short of McDavid asking to leave that would make Katz clean house? They've had enough GMs and coaches, and honestly, if not for McDavid and Draisaitl, after all these years, would be be any better than a lottery team? Hell, we're barely better than that WITH them...


Think McDavid will ask to leave? Can see him just going on the path of blaming himself, and then his agent convincing him that he needs to change things up with a year left on his deal. Then we have to move him that summer. Can blame himself more now that he has all his summer training buddies on the team, and he probably gave full support and was excited for a winner like Keith joining the team. Added bonus to doing stuff McDavid really likes in the summer. When it fails McDavid can feel party responsible. Genius.

Maybe he circles back one day for a job in management here.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 January 2022 13:33]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797115 is a reply to message #797114 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:30

Mike wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:24

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 15:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 12:22


I'm all for cleaning house and flushing all those guys. I think that no one is likely to mourn the departures of Lowe, Nicholson or Holland too. I think that there's a possibility that Holland is on the verge of cratering out with the temperature in the fan base rising and with stars likely getting frustrated here, but that the team will give him one more shot. The sooner he gets that shot the better.

I think there's a possibility that when Holland goes, it takes down Nicholson too...but you're right. It's still Lowe there then, and he is always going to defer to people who played in the 1980s or were somehow involved in picking Team Canada.

I don't know what it takes for Katz to get upset enough to make a real change. He just always seems to take criticism of management personally as if they're one and the same. Maybe McDavid can force some level of change, although I fear that they tried to make him happy this summer by targeting players he knows, and they may point to how some of those have gone to try to defuse his anger at management.

It's suddenly a real, real possibility that we don't win a Cup in the McDavid era...

I would suggest the Oilers are unlikely to seriously challenge for a Cup in the McDavid era at this point. They have obvious fatal flaws (plural) with no outward indication that they're even considering fixing them. As for McDavid, we're 7 years into this rebuild. I don't see him as the fix for what ails Edmonton management.


Serious question - is there anything short of McDavid asking to leave that would make Katz clean house? They've had enough GMs and coaches, and honestly, if not for McDavid and Draisaitl, after all these years, would be be any better than a lottery team? Hell, we're barely better than that WITH them...


Think McDavid will ask to leave? Can see him just going on the path of blaming himself, and then his agent convincing him that he needs to change things up with a year left on his deal. Then we have to move him that summer. Can blame himself more now that he has all his summer training buddies on the team, and he probably gave full support and was excited for a winner like Keith joining the team. Added bonus to doing stuff McDavid really likes in the summer. When it fails McDavid can feel party responsible. Genius.

Maybe he circles back one day for a job in management here.


I have to think he knows that no other generational player has gone as long as him without winning a Stanley Cup, never mind never being a serious contender. Lemieux won in his 7th season, and his team was plagued by crappy management until about 18 months before that, but I think it's pretty safe to say that McDavid isn't going to match Mario this spring.

Craig Patrick had built a team around Lemieux in 1990-91 that included jagr, Stevens, Francis, Coffey, Mullen, Trottier, Larry Murphy, Ulf Samuelsson and backstopped by Tom Barrasso.

They continued to make bold moves that year - trading John Cullen, Rob Brown & Zarley Zalapski, all of whom had been big contributors on the team.

You compare that to the Oilers and it sure isn't close. We don't have a goalie close to Barrasso, we don't have anywhere near that depth (even if we pretended that Draisaitl was equivalent to Jagr and Nugent-Hopkins was the equal of Ron Francis) and our GM is a dithering old man who's not sure what he wants to do this year, never mind has the stones to trade a key piece to bring in the missing ingredient.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797116 is a reply to message #797115 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:58

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:30

Mike wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:24

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 15:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 12:22


I'm all for cleaning house and flushing all those guys. I think that no one is likely to mourn the departures of Lowe, Nicholson or Holland too. I think that there's a possibility that Holland is on the verge of cratering out with the temperature in the fan base rising and with stars likely getting frustrated here, but that the team will give him one more shot. The sooner he gets that shot the better.

I think there's a possibility that when Holland goes, it takes down Nicholson too...but you're right. It's still Lowe there then, and he is always going to defer to people who played in the 1980s or were somehow involved in picking Team Canada.

I don't know what it takes for Katz to get upset enough to make a real change. He just always seems to take criticism of management personally as if they're one and the same. Maybe McDavid can force some level of change, although I fear that they tried to make him happy this summer by targeting players he knows, and they may point to how some of those have gone to try to defuse his anger at management.

It's suddenly a real, real possibility that we don't win a Cup in the McDavid era...

I would suggest the Oilers are unlikely to seriously challenge for a Cup in the McDavid era at this point. They have obvious fatal flaws (plural) with no outward indication that they're even considering fixing them. As for McDavid, we're 7 years into this rebuild. I don't see him as the fix for what ails Edmonton management.


Serious question - is there anything short of McDavid asking to leave that would make Katz clean house? They've had enough GMs and coaches, and honestly, if not for McDavid and Draisaitl, after all these years, would be be any better than a lottery team? Hell, we're barely better than that WITH them...


Think McDavid will ask to leave? Can see him just going on the path of blaming himself, and then his agent convincing him that he needs to change things up with a year left on his deal. Then we have to move him that summer. Can blame himself more now that he has all his summer training buddies on the team, and he probably gave full support and was excited for a winner like Keith joining the team. Added bonus to doing stuff McDavid really likes in the summer. When it fails McDavid can feel party responsible. Genius.

Maybe he circles back one day for a job in management here.


I have to think he knows that no other generational player has gone as long as him without winning a Stanley Cup, never mind never being a serious contender. Lemieux won in his 7th season, and his team was plagued by crappy management until about 18 months before that, but I think it's pretty safe to say that McDavid isn't going to match Mario this spring.

Craig Patrick had built a team around Lemieux in 1990-91 that included jagr, Stevens, Francis, Coffey, Mullen, Trottier, Larry Murphy, Ulf Samuelsson and backstopped by Tom Barrasso.

They continued to make bold moves that year - trading John Cullen, Rob Brown & Zarley Zalapski, all of whom had been big contributors on the team.

You compare that to the Oilers and it sure isn't close. We don't have a goalie close to Barrasso, we don't have anywhere near that depth (even if we pretended that Draisaitl was equivalent to Jagr and Nugent-Hopkins was the equal of Ron Francis) and our GM is a dithering old man who's not sure what he wants to do this year, never mind has the stones to trade a key piece to bring in the missing ingredient.


Would McDavid make those kinds of comparisons? Can always toss an OV out there. In the end though, he probably mainly blames himself for not doing more, which is sad, but just strikes me as that kind of guy (I know I'm trying to read minds).

Personally doubt he is gone unless we trade him, which would be forced if he decides he wants to try something new when we try to negotiate in the last year of his deal. Which means Nicholson/Holland or whatever other buddy we hire will keep going along, maybe letting McDavid put his fingerprints on the failure some more by seeking his approval for moves to ensure he can always feel a bit responsible. That's what I would do if I was an incompetent manager at least :)



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797122 is a reply to message #797116 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 14:13

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:58

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:30

Mike wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:24

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 15:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 12:22


I'm all for cleaning house and flushing all those guys. I think that no one is likely to mourn the departures of Lowe, Nicholson or Holland too. I think that there's a possibility that Holland is on the verge of cratering out with the temperature in the fan base rising and with stars likely getting frustrated here, but that the team will give him one more shot. The sooner he gets that shot the better.

I think there's a possibility that when Holland goes, it takes down Nicholson too...but you're right. It's still Lowe there then, and he is always going to defer to people who played in the 1980s or were somehow involved in picking Team Canada.

I don't know what it takes for Katz to get upset enough to make a real change. He just always seems to take criticism of management personally as if they're one and the same. Maybe McDavid can force some level of change, although I fear that they tried to make him happy this summer by targeting players he knows, and they may point to how some of those have gone to try to defuse his anger at management.

It's suddenly a real, real possibility that we don't win a Cup in the McDavid era...

I would suggest the Oilers are unlikely to seriously challenge for a Cup in the McDavid era at this point. They have obvious fatal flaws (plural) with no outward indication that they're even considering fixing them. As for McDavid, we're 7 years into this rebuild. I don't see him as the fix for what ails Edmonton management.


Serious question - is there anything short of McDavid asking to leave that would make Katz clean house? They've had enough GMs and coaches, and honestly, if not for McDavid and Draisaitl, after all these years, would be be any better than a lottery team? Hell, we're barely better than that WITH them...


Think McDavid will ask to leave? Can see him just going on the path of blaming himself, and then his agent convincing him that he needs to change things up with a year left on his deal. Then we have to move him that summer. Can blame himself more now that he has all his summer training buddies on the team, and he probably gave full support and was excited for a winner like Keith joining the team. Added bonus to doing stuff McDavid really likes in the summer. When it fails McDavid can feel party responsible. Genius.

Maybe he circles back one day for a job in management here.


I have to think he knows that no other generational player has gone as long as him without winning a Stanley Cup, never mind never being a serious contender. Lemieux won in his 7th season, and his team was plagued by crappy management until about 18 months before that, but I think it's pretty safe to say that McDavid isn't going to match Mario this spring.

Craig Patrick had built a team around Lemieux in 1990-91 that included jagr, Stevens, Francis, Coffey, Mullen, Trottier, Larry Murphy, Ulf Samuelsson and backstopped by Tom Barrasso.

They continued to make bold moves that year - trading John Cullen, Rob Brown & Zarley Zalapski, all of whom had been big contributors on the team.

You compare that to the Oilers and it sure isn't close. We don't have a goalie close to Barrasso, we don't have anywhere near that depth (even if we pretended that Draisaitl was equivalent to Jagr and Nugent-Hopkins was the equal of Ron Francis) and our GM is a dithering old man who's not sure what he wants to do this year, never mind has the stones to trade a key piece to bring in the missing ingredient.


Would McDavid make those kinds of comparisons? Can always toss an OV out there. In the end though, he probably mainly blames himself for not doing more, which is sad, but just strikes me as that kind of guy (I know I'm trying to read minds).

Personally doubt he is gone unless we trade him, which would be forced if he decides he wants to try something new when we try to negotiate in the last year of his deal. Which means Nicholson/Holland or whatever other buddy we hire will keep going along, maybe letting McDavid put his fingerprints on the failure some more by seeking his approval for moves to ensure he can always feel a bit responsible. That's what I would do if I was an incompetent manager at least :)



I don't know that Ovechkin was considered as generational as an Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby. Lindros arguably could be considered in the same category and he never won - but, both Lindros and Ovechkin were consistently on contenders from relatively early in their career. Ovechkin missed the playoffs the first two years but then his team won the Division in 5 of the next 6 seasons (and finished second the one other) and in 2009-10 they won the President's Trophy.

For Lindros, again, the first two seasons out of the playoffs, then he never missed again in his time with the Flyers (other than due to injury in 1998) and his team never finished lower than 2nd in the division in that time. In his fifth season he was in the Stanley Cup finals.

I think that there's a couple things that will push the timeline on us here. The first is that he's already had a career-threatening injury, and seen a couple other teammates now who've had an injury finish their career. He has to know by now that careers are fleeting and you need to win while you can.

The second thing is that the Edmonton management always eats their own, and the longer we go without success, the more likelihood that they start trying to shift blame to McDavid, just as they did with Taylor Hall. When the criticism starts to be too pointedly "how can you still suck with McDavid" then we'll see them trying to point the fingers back at the player. They likely won't say this directly, but you'll see the media cronies suggest that McDavid is playing wrong - too selfish, too focused on offence, not caring enough, etc. We've seen it already at some points, but you'll see it more pointedly from Edmonton media guys when the Oilers want to shift responsibility for losing. We know that there will be some fans, even here, who'll be receptive to that messaging and we'll start hearing people wonder if he's really "a winner" or whether he cares enough about winning, etc. When that starts getting too loud, I expect that there will be much more tension growing between the parties and it will become a lot more likely that McDavid or his agent will ask for a trade.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797124 is a reply to message #797122 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 15:03

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 14:13

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:58

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:30

Mike wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:24

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 15:58

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 12:22


I'm all for cleaning house and flushing all those guys. I think that no one is likely to mourn the departures of Lowe, Nicholson or Holland too. I think that there's a possibility that Holland is on the verge of cratering out with the temperature in the fan base rising and with stars likely getting frustrated here, but that the team will give him one more shot. The sooner he gets that shot the better.

I think there's a possibility that when Holland goes, it takes down Nicholson too...but you're right. It's still Lowe there then, and he is always going to defer to people who played in the 1980s or were somehow involved in picking Team Canada.

I don't know what it takes for Katz to get upset enough to make a real change. He just always seems to take criticism of management personally as if they're one and the same. Maybe McDavid can force some level of change, although I fear that they tried to make him happy this summer by targeting players he knows, and they may point to how some of those have gone to try to defuse his anger at management.

It's suddenly a real, real possibility that we don't win a Cup in the McDavid era...

I would suggest the Oilers are unlikely to seriously challenge for a Cup in the McDavid era at this point. They have obvious fatal flaws (plural) with no outward indication that they're even considering fixing them. As for McDavid, we're 7 years into this rebuild. I don't see him as the fix for what ails Edmonton management.


Serious question - is there anything short of McDavid asking to leave that would make Katz clean house? They've had enough GMs and coaches, and honestly, if not for McDavid and Draisaitl, after all these years, would be be any better than a lottery team? Hell, we're barely better than that WITH them...


Think McDavid will ask to leave? Can see him just going on the path of blaming himself, and then his agent convincing him that he needs to change things up with a year left on his deal. Then we have to move him that summer. Can blame himself more now that he has all his summer training buddies on the team, and he probably gave full support and was excited for a winner like Keith joining the team. Added bonus to doing stuff McDavid really likes in the summer. When it fails McDavid can feel party responsible. Genius.

Maybe he circles back one day for a job in management here.


I have to think he knows that no other generational player has gone as long as him without winning a Stanley Cup, never mind never being a serious contender. Lemieux won in his 7th season, and his team was plagued by crappy management until about 18 months before that, but I think it's pretty safe to say that McDavid isn't going to match Mario this spring.

Craig Patrick had built a team around Lemieux in 1990-91 that included jagr, Stevens, Francis, Coffey, Mullen, Trottier, Larry Murphy, Ulf Samuelsson and backstopped by Tom Barrasso.

They continued to make bold moves that year - trading John Cullen, Rob Brown & Zarley Zalapski, all of whom had been big contributors on the team.

You compare that to the Oilers and it sure isn't close. We don't have a goalie close to Barrasso, we don't have anywhere near that depth (even if we pretended that Draisaitl was equivalent to Jagr and Nugent-Hopkins was the equal of Ron Francis) and our GM is a dithering old man who's not sure what he wants to do this year, never mind has the stones to trade a key piece to bring in the missing ingredient.


Would McDavid make those kinds of comparisons? Can always toss an OV out there. In the end though, he probably mainly blames himself for not doing more, which is sad, but just strikes me as that kind of guy (I know I'm trying to read minds).

Personally doubt he is gone unless we trade him, which would be forced if he decides he wants to try something new when we try to negotiate in the last year of his deal. Which means Nicholson/Holland or whatever other buddy we hire will keep going along, maybe letting McDavid put his fingerprints on the failure some more by seeking his approval for moves to ensure he can always feel a bit responsible. That's what I would do if I was an incompetent manager at least :)



I don't know that Ovechkin was considered as generational as an Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby. Lindros arguably could be considered in the same category and he never won - but, both Lindros and Ovechkin were consistently on contenders from relatively early in their career. Ovechkin missed the playoffs the first two years but then his team won the Division in 5 of the next 6 seasons (and finished second the one other) and in 2009-10 they won the President's Trophy.

For Lindros, again, the first two seasons out of the playoffs, then he never missed again in his time with the Flyers (other than due to injury in 1998) and his team never finished lower than 2nd in the division in that time. In his fifth season he was in the Stanley Cup finals.

I think that there's a couple things that will push the timeline on us here. The first is that he's already had a career-threatening injury, and seen a couple other teammates now who've had an injury finish their career. He has to know by now that careers are fleeting and you need to win while you can.

The second thing is that the Edmonton management always eats their own, and the longer we go without success, the more likelihood that they start trying to shift blame to McDavid, just as they did with Taylor Hall. When the criticism starts to be too pointedly "how can you still suck with McDavid" then we'll see them trying to point the fingers back at the player. They likely won't say this directly, but you'll see the media cronies suggest that McDavid is playing wrong - too selfish, too focused on offence, not caring enough, etc. We've seen it already at some points, but you'll see it more pointedly from Edmonton media guys when the Oilers want to shift responsibility for losing. We know that there will be some fans, even here, who'll be receptive to that messaging and we'll start hearing people wonder if he's really "a winner" or whether he cares enough about winning, etc. When that starts getting too loud, I expect that there will be much more tension growing between the parties and it will become a lot more likely that McDavid or his agent will ask for a trade.


Totally agree with the comparisons, McDavid is wasted here. Just question if he would see it the same way. It's rare that such a great talent is wasted like this, because it requires an owner and management group with a perfect sustainable combination of stupidity and lack of accountability. But here we are, we are doing it! Amazing!

What is McDavid's perspective though? Is he blaming management all the time? Does he know the team has kept defying any proper analysis with the moves they make? Or is it possible he absolutely loved everything Holland did last summer? Keeping/getting his boys Shore, Hyman, Foegele. Getting a proven winner like Keith. A warrior like Ceci. Brought back a man he loves in Smith that is always amazing in the room pumping the boys up being like a dad to them all. He extended his BFF Nurse for 8 years, awesome. All this good stuff that happened, but team is middling again now. Who is he blaming? I'm thinking himself more than anything. Maybe Kostko too :)

I don't think he's sitting around making comparisons to past guys considered generational, that's all I'm saying. Think he's just trying to do all he can to win and enjoying the highest cap hit in the league while doing it. I think the pressure and blame will be mostly internal until he is actually near the exit and he will just go out gracefully.

I don't discount the possibility the Oilers blow up the relationship though. We definitely are the masters of eating our own. Right now though, I think keeping McDavid happy is the focus and praying that somehow things work out. Maybe that changes after another year of that not resulting in any success.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797213 is a reply to message #797122 ]
Tue, 11 January 2022 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Adam wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 14:03


I don't know that Ovechkin was considered as generational as an Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby. Lindros arguably could be considered in the same category and he never won - but, both Lindros and Ovechkin were consistently on contenders from relatively early in their career. Ovechkin missed the playoffs the first two years but then his team won the Division in 5 of the next 6 seasons (and finished second the one other) and in 2009-10 they won the President's Trophy.

For Lindros, again, the first two seasons out of the playoffs, then he never missed again in his time with the Flyers (other than due to injury in 1998) and his team never finished lower than 2nd in the division in that time. In his fifth season he was in the Stanley Cup finals.



I think that there's a decent argument to be made that outside of McDavid/Draisaitl, this iteration of the Oilers is one of the worst constructed teams in NHL history.

Mediocre to bad goaltending.

2 legitimate top 4 defencemen and the one guy that you could really argue is a legit top pairing defenceman probably wouldn't be on the top pair on this team if Klefbom doesn't get hurt (Nurse is currently 90th in EV points among defencemen, so there's that).

Bottom 6 is a total mess. The Oilers are being outscored 2-1 at 5x5 without McDavid or Draisaitl on the ice, (19GF / 38 GA).

The top 6 wingers better, but not exactly Murderer's Row. Puljujarvi and Hyman are good. Yamamoto is on pace for less than 30 points, (although on a bit of a hot streak). And it's hard to quantify what RNH is at this point. He racks up a tonne of points on the PP, but he's currently 207th in the NHL in EV points among forwards and he was 213th last year. His underlying numbers at 5x5 are among the worst on the team, which probably reflects some tough matchups, but he also plays primarily with Draisaitl.

So 2 legit top 6 wingers, one that isn't on a good team, and one that mainly helps your PP but isn't driving a lot 5x5.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797217 is a reply to message #797213 ]
Tue, 11 January 2022 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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You make a strong case. I think the 2009-10 (Hall draft year) Oilers was the worst non-expansion team I’ve ever watched. But if you replace McDavid and Draisaitl with Penner and Gagne, the best two players from that team, boy I think it’s comparable.


East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797224 is a reply to message #797217 ]
Tue, 11 January 2022 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 11 January 2022 21:00

You make a strong case. I think the 2009-10 (Hall draft year) Oilers was the worst non-expansion team I’ve ever watched. But if you replace McDavid and Draisaitl with Penner and Gagne, the best two players from that team, boy I think it’s comparable.


12 years and 4 1st overall picks (plus a Hart winning 3rd overall) later, and a compelling argument could be made that this team, outside those two, is no better than it was. How anyone associated with the team through the whole time still has a job is mind boggling.



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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797120 is a reply to message #797113 ]
Mon, 10 January 2022 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Mike wrote on Mon, 10 January 2022 13:24


Serious question - is there anything short of McDavid asking to leave that would make Katz clean house? They've had enough GMs and coaches, and honestly, if not for McDavid and Draisaitl, after all these years, would be be any better than a lottery team? Hell, we're barely better than that WITH them...

I don't think McDavid asking for a trade would do it. That would be a trigger for a public relations campaign, not management changes. I think a better question is what will it take for McDavid to ask for a trade.

And yes, I think he will.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797158 is a reply to message #797120 ]
Tue, 11 January 2022 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 440
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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just saying... Tavares.


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797231 is a reply to message #797120 ]
Wed, 12 January 2022 06:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clutchlikeeberle  is currently offline clutchlikeeberle
Messages: 431
Registered: April 2012

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Sadly, McDavid asks for a trade this May. I would bet on it....:(


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 Re: Fire Tippett? [message #797233 is a reply to message #797231 ]
Wed, 12 January 2022 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Mullet  is currently offline Mullet
Messages: 640
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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So if we hire Kane does this pave the way for hiring Quenville when Tippets contract is up?


WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher, smarter, faster and better looking than most people.

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