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 NHL » Wild buying out Suter and Parise
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 Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789081]
Tue, 13 July 2021 09:54 Go to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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2 of the most epic backdiving deals in NHL history are coming to an end early. They were both given 98M over 13 years 9 years ago. Both were owed 6M, 2M, 1M, 1M over the next 4 years if the deals stood.

https://theathletic.com/2704643/2021/07/13/wild-buying-out-z ach-parise-and-ryan-suter-sources/


Quote:

A little more than nine years after fireworks erupted in the Twin Cities with the Fourth of July tag-team signings of Zach Parise and Ryan Suter in 2012, the Parise-Suter era has come to an end.

According to sources, Wild general manager Bill Guerin called both Parise and Suter to inform each of them that the team is buying out the remaining four years of each of their contracts.

Both players will become free agents on July 28.

The Wild will pay each $6.7 million over the next eight years and be charged with $2.371 million, $6.371 million and $7.371 million cap hits in the next four years, respectively, for each, then $833,333 cap hits the four years after that for each.

This gives the Wild another $10.33 million in cap space to play with this summer where Kirill Kaprizov and Kevin Fiala have to be re-signed and the team could be pursuing a No. 1 center.

Parise, 36, scored 199 goals and 400 points in 558 games over nine seasons with the Wild. He ranks third in Wild history in goals and points, and is first in points per game.

Suter, 36, had 55 goals and 369 points in 656 games with the Wild over the same nine seasons. He is the franchise’s all-time leader in scoring and assists among defensemen.



Wonder if Suter would have come here for 5.5Mx2 ;) He's playing better than Keith lately.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 July 2021 09:57]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789082 is a reply to message #789081 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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9 years ago already? Wow!

Man - Holland could have gotten them for a few 1st round picks and Bouchard...big miss here.



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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789083 is a reply to message #789081 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
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Why did the Keith deal have to be done so soon again?

Suter would have been a better direction I'd say.



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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789084 is a reply to message #789083 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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JPro wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 10:01

Why did the Keith deal have to be done so soon again?

Suter would have been a better direction I'd say.


3 cups!



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789085 is a reply to message #789081 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Both buyouts look like this:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/attachments/upload_2021-7-13_9-58-32-png.452788/

So...basically years 2,3,4 you're getting almost the same cap hit without having the player. 13-15M of dead cap space for 3 years.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789088 is a reply to message #789085 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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U-G-L-Y Free agency is a scary scary time.


Over the last 9 years the wild have made the playoffs 8 times and the second round twice. Better than the Oilers, but probably not what they were hoping for.



This is fine.

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789090 is a reply to message #789088 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Wow. I did not see that coming, especially not both of them.


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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789092 is a reply to message #789085 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:09

So...basically years 2,3,4 you're getting almost the same cap hit without having the player. 13-15M of dead cap space for 3 years.


Man, that's a huge roadblock to building a team with a cap likely to stay stagnant during those years. Wouldn't they have been better off holding on to them a couple more years? Or even burying them in the minors if need be?



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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789098 is a reply to message #789092 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 10:23

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:09

So...basically years 2,3,4 you're getting almost the same cap hit without having the player. 13-15M of dead cap space for 3 years.


Man, that's a huge roadblock to building a team with a cap likely to stay stagnant during those years. Wouldn't they have been better off holding on to them a couple more years? Or even burying them in the minors if need be?


There's reason to believe Bill Guerin may not be a stellar GM either...remember his bizarre trade of Eric Staal just to "shake up the room"?

He's given himself some pretty damaging handcuffs the next few years for a little bit of flexibility this year. The original deals were pretty foolish, but this isn't much better. Not having the players OR their cap availability is nuts.



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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789104 is a reply to message #789098 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 11:14

Mike wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 10:23

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:09

So...basically years 2,3,4 you're getting almost the same cap hit without having the player. 13-15M of dead cap space for 3 years.


Man, that's a huge roadblock to building a team with a cap likely to stay stagnant during those years. Wouldn't they have been better off holding on to them a couple more years? Or even burying them in the minors if need be?


There's reason to believe Bill Guerin may not be a stellar GM either...remember his bizarre trade of Eric Staal just to "shake up the room"?

He's given himself some pretty damaging handcuffs the next few years for a little bit of flexibility this year. The original deals were pretty foolish, but this isn't much better. Not having the players OR their cap availability is nuts.

You'd need the owner's approval to pay this much to two guys for not playing. maybe he told Guerin his job is safe and to go for some number one overall picks?



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789105 is a reply to message #789098 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 11:14

Mike wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 10:23

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:09

So...basically years 2,3,4 you're getting almost the same cap hit without having the player. 13-15M of dead cap space for 3 years.


Man, that's a huge roadblock to building a team with a cap likely to stay stagnant during those years. Wouldn't they have been better off holding on to them a couple more years? Or even burying them in the minors if need be?


There's reason to believe Bill Guerin may not be a stellar GM either...remember his bizarre trade of Eric Staal just to "shake up the room"?

He's given himself some pretty damaging handcuffs the next few years for a little bit of flexibility this year. The original deals were pretty foolish, but this isn't much better. Not having the players OR their cap availability is nuts.


Guerin's best move was becoming GM on the team Kirill Kaprizov finally played on after being drafted by that team in 2015. He almost single handedly boosted that team from being mediocre.

Now Kirill may bolt to Russia, so I guess we'll see what Guerin actually can do over the next couple years. Not setting himself up nicely with these buyouts. Especially with Suter who has still been playing well against tough competition. Paying full price for Suter without actually having Suter for 3 years is brutal.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 July 2021 12:14]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789094 is a reply to message #789085 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 09:09

Both buyouts look like this:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/attachments/upload_2021-7-13_9-58-32-png.452788/

So...basically years 2,3,4 you're getting almost the same cap hit without having the player. 13-15M of dead cap space for 3 years.


WOW! That is pretty ugly!

For both of them that's;

1 $ 4.74M
2 $12.74M
3 $14.74M
4 $14.74M
5 $ 1.66M
6 $ 1.66M
7 $ 1.66M

[Updated on: Tue, 13 July 2021 10:51]


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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789214 is a reply to message #789081 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Play by play of the drama of Guerin telling these guys they are getting free money.

https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2021/07/14/ryan-suter- hung-up-on-bill-guerin-during-his-buyout-call/



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789216 is a reply to message #789214 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Again, considering how much they are going to be paying, would they not have been better off retaining half on both guys and sending them wherever? Or even full cap to a budget team? They only have $8M TOTAL each over the next 4 years. I don't know - this seems like an incredibly stupid buyout considering the cap hit in years 2 and 3.


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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789218 is a reply to message #789216 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:00

Again, considering how much they are going to be paying, would they not have been better off retaining half on both guys and sending them wherever? Or even full cap to a budget team? They only have $8M TOTAL each over the next 4 years. I don't know - this seems like an incredibly stupid buyout considering the cap hit in years 2 and 3.


Only 2 things I can think of to reason it out.

First would be desperation for cap space this coming season to throw a huge offer to Kirill so he doesn't bolt to Russia. Boy are they screwed though if there aren't significant cap increases coming.

Second would be that they have 3 good D aside from Suter. So, having to protect Suter was messing up their protection list...but that probably doesn't make that much sense. They can protect Foligno and Hartman now, but could you not have replaced one of those guys with the ~4M you now have to pay to replace Suter? No doubt they could have.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789220 is a reply to message #789218 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:06

Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:00

Again, considering how much they are going to be paying, would they not have been better off retaining half on both guys and sending them wherever? Or even full cap to a budget team? They only have $8M TOTAL each over the next 4 years. I don't know - this seems like an incredibly stupid buyout considering the cap hit in years 2 and 3.


Only 2 things I can think of to reason it out.

First would be desperation for cap space this coming season to throw a huge offer to Kirill so he doesn't bolt to Russia. Boy are they screwed though if there aren't significant cap increases coming.

Second would be that they have 3 good D aside from Suter. So, having to protect Suter was messing up their protection list...but that probably doesn't make that much sense. They can protect Foligno and Hartman now, but could you not have replaced one of those guys with the ~4M you now have to pay to replace Suter? No doubt they could have.

Suter seems tradeable with 50% retained though...



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789221 is a reply to message #789220 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:16

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:06

Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:00

Again, considering how much they are going to be paying, would they not have been better off retaining half on both guys and sending them wherever? Or even full cap to a budget team? They only have $8M TOTAL each over the next 4 years. I don't know - this seems like an incredibly stupid buyout considering the cap hit in years 2 and 3.


Only 2 things I can think of to reason it out.

First would be desperation for cap space this coming season to throw a huge offer to Kirill so he doesn't bolt to Russia. Boy are they screwed though if there aren't significant cap increases coming.

Second would be that they have 3 good D aside from Suter. So, having to protect Suter was messing up their protection list...but that probably doesn't make that much sense. They can protect Foligno and Hartman now, but could you not have replaced one of those guys with the ~4M you now have to pay to replace Suter? No doubt they could have.

Suter seems tradeable with 50% retained though...


I would bet he was never going to waive his NMC. Not for a trade, not for expansion. That's where he wanted to finish his career.

He was still playing like a good top 4 D. Not really any reasonable reason for the Wild to say he should waive either unless they want to start a fight with one of their players that holds all the cards.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789224 is a reply to message #789218 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:06

Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:00

Again, considering how much they are going to be paying, would they not have been better off retaining half on both guys and sending them wherever? Or even full cap to a budget team? They only have $8M TOTAL each over the next 4 years. I don't know - this seems like an incredibly stupid buyout considering the cap hit in years 2 and 3.


Only 2 things I can think of to reason it out.

First would be desperation for cap space this coming season to throw a huge offer to Kirill so he doesn't bolt to Russia. Boy are they screwed though if there aren't significant cap increases coming.

Second would be that they have 3 good D aside from Suter. So, having to protect Suter was messing up their protection list...but that probably doesn't make that much sense. They can protect Foligno and Hartman now, but could you not have replaced one of those guys with the ~4M you now have to pay to replace Suter? No doubt they could have.


If it's the second reason, then why buy out both? Just because they got signed together doesn't mean they have to leave at the same time too...at least then you're only getting hosed on one of those buyouts!

Billy should have just got on the phone to Holland in the last week. Not as many cups for Suter, but even giving him away for free is better than that buyout! Even for free with 50% retention for that matter!



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks #FireTheGretzkys #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789228 is a reply to message #789224 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:40

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:06

Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:00

Again, considering how much they are going to be paying, would they not have been better off retaining half on both guys and sending them wherever? Or even full cap to a budget team? They only have $8M TOTAL each over the next 4 years. I don't know - this seems like an incredibly stupid buyout considering the cap hit in years 2 and 3.


Only 2 things I can think of to reason it out.

First would be desperation for cap space this coming season to throw a huge offer to Kirill so he doesn't bolt to Russia. Boy are they screwed though if there aren't significant cap increases coming.

Second would be that they have 3 good D aside from Suter. So, having to protect Suter was messing up their protection list...but that probably doesn't make that much sense. They can protect Foligno and Hartman now, but could you not have replaced one of those guys with the ~4M you now have to pay to replace Suter? No doubt they could have.


If it's the second reason, then why buy out both? Just because they got signed together doesn't mean they have to leave at the same time too...at least then you're only getting hosed on one of those buyouts!

Billy should have just got on the phone to Holland in the last week. Not as many cups for Suter, but even giving him away for free is better than that buyout! Even for free with 50% retention for that matter!


I think the 2nd reason only applies to Suter. He's taking that 4th D spot with the NMC. He's also the only one performing even close to his cap hit.

It's all really weird, it's hard to find good reasons no matter how you look at it :)

Side note, I would love to look back on Wild fans comments about those contracts when they were signed and how they would be no problem when the players retire on the tail ends. Oh how things have changed.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789252 is a reply to message #789228 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 14:43

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:40

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:06

Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:00

Again, considering how much they are going to be paying, would they not have been better off retaining half on both guys and sending them wherever? Or even full cap to a budget team? They only have $8M TOTAL each over the next 4 years. I don't know - this seems like an incredibly stupid buyout considering the cap hit in years 2 and 3.


Only 2 things I can think of to reason it out.

First would be desperation for cap space this coming season to throw a huge offer to Kirill so he doesn't bolt to Russia. Boy are they screwed though if there aren't significant cap increases coming.

Second would be that they have 3 good D aside from Suter. So, having to protect Suter was messing up their protection list...but that probably doesn't make that much sense. They can protect Foligno and Hartman now, but could you not have replaced one of those guys with the ~4M you now have to pay to replace Suter? No doubt they could have.


If it's the second reason, then why buy out both? Just because they got signed together doesn't mean they have to leave at the same time too...at least then you're only getting hosed on one of those buyouts!

Billy should have just got on the phone to Holland in the last week. Not as many cups for Suter, but even giving him away for free is better than that buyout! Even for free with 50% retention for that matter!


I think the 2nd reason only applies to Suter. He's taking that 4th D spot with the NMC. He's also the only one performing even close to his cap hit.

It's all really weird, it's hard to find good reasons no matter how you look at it :)

Side note, I would love to look back on Wild fans comments about those contracts when they were signed and how they would be no problem when the players retire on the tail ends. Oh how things have changed.

There's another reason that this may have happened. I've got a Wild buddy who lives out there and he told me that there has been rumors that the two of them were bad in the room and there was a rift there. When Mike Yeo got fired, he made some kind of comment about giving some of his vets too much freedom. Connecting these dots makes it look like a desperation move to save the room. Stretching even further, perhaps Kaprizov had issues with these two guys and part of the struggle to get him signed was he was unhappy or uncomfortable with them? Completely guessing, obviously.



Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 March 2021 18:49

Turris in the BOA will be like an ice cube in the Sahara.

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 Re: Wild buying out Suter and Parise [message #789276 is a reply to message #789252 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 21:44 Go to previous message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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OilPeg wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 15:04

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 14:43

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:40

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:06

Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:00

Again, considering how much they are going to be paying, would they not have been better off retaining half on both guys and sending them wherever? Or even full cap to a budget team? They only have $8M TOTAL each over the next 4 years. I don't know - this seems like an incredibly stupid buyout considering the cap hit in years 2 and 3.


Only 2 things I can think of to reason it out.

First would be desperation for cap space this coming season to throw a huge offer to Kirill so he doesn't bolt to Russia. Boy are they screwed though if there aren't significant cap increases coming.

Second would be that they have 3 good D aside from Suter. So, having to protect Suter was messing up their protection list...but that probably doesn't make that much sense. They can protect Foligno and Hartman now, but could you not have replaced one of those guys with the ~4M you now have to pay to replace Suter? No doubt they could have.


If it's the second reason, then why buy out both? Just because they got signed together doesn't mean they have to leave at the same time too...at least then you're only getting hosed on one of those buyouts!

Billy should have just got on the phone to Holland in the last week. Not as many cups for Suter, but even giving him away for free is better than that buyout! Even for free with 50% retention for that matter!


I think the 2nd reason only applies to Suter. He's taking that 4th D spot with the NMC. He's also the only one performing even close to his cap hit.

It's all really weird, it's hard to find good reasons no matter how you look at it :)

Side note, I would love to look back on Wild fans comments about those contracts when they were signed and how they would be no problem when the players retire on the tail ends. Oh how things have changed.

There's another reason that this may have happened. I've got a Wild buddy who lives out there and he told me that there has been rumors that the two of them were bad in the room and there was a rift there. When Mike Yeo got fired, he made some kind of comment about giving some of his vets too much freedom. Connecting these dots makes it look like a desperation move to save the room. Stretching even further, perhaps Kaprizov had issues with these two guys and part of the struggle to get him signed was he was unhappy or uncomfortable with them? Completely guessing, obviously.


Definitely sounds like the solution that an ex-player GM would come up with if he felt guys were disrupting the room. Cap space be damned, bad teammates gotta go.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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