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 Speculation » Does Drai win the Hart??
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 Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761668]
Mon, 15 June 2020 09:40 Go to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Drai wins the Hart?[ 41 vote(s) ]
1.Yes, deserved! 30 / 73%
2.Yes, someone else should have though 0 / 0%
3.No, he gets robbed 11 / 27%
4.No, and didn't deserve anyways 0 / 0%

As is custom, lots of the media are doing backflips to argue why an Oiler doesn't deserve an award :)

Drai plays with McDavid (even though had better points/60 with Nuge and Yams). Drai scored lots on the PP (PP points no longer matter for this argument). Drai had bad defensive analytics. Panarin did more himself (being way down the standings out of a playoff spot no longer matters this year, that only matters when we're talking about McDavid). And so on...


Does Drai pull it off?



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761670 is a reply to message #761668 ]
Mon, 15 June 2020 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 09:40

As is custom, lots of the media are doing backflips to argue why an Oiler doesn't deserve an award :)

Drai plays with McDavid (even though had better points/60 with Nuge and Yams). Drai scored lots on the PP (PP points no longer matter for this argument). Drai had bad defensive analytics. Panarin did more himself (being way down the standings out of a playoff spot no longer matters this year, that only matters when we're talking about McDavid). And so on...


Does Drai pull it off?


I dont listen to Oilers radio, media etc. The only hockey related media I follow close these days in NHL radio on satellite during my ride to and from work. This last couple months there obviously hasn't been much to chat about so they talked awards a lot, with almost every guest.
While very few were 100% pro-Drai or anything there definitely hasnt been the same level of mental gymnastics I remember against McDavid because he missed the playoffs.
I would say 100% of guests had him top three and I would say 40% had Drai winning, the other 60% one of Pastrnak , MacKinnon or Panarin.

I think Drai wins but it inst a landslide.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761671 is a reply to message #761668 ]
Mon, 15 June 2020 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 09:40

As is custom, lots of the media are doing backflips to argue why an Oiler doesn't deserve an award :)

Drai plays with McDavid (even though had better points/60 with Nuge and Yams). Drai scored lots on the PP (PP points no longer matter for this argument). Drai had bad defensive analytics. Panarin did more himself (being way down the standings out of a playoff spot no longer matters this year, that only matters when we're talking about McDavid). And so on...


Does Drai pull it off?

Typically the Hart winner is usually the following:
- Art Ross winner.
- Team makes the playoffs.
- Line driver.

From past winners, the big one is playoffs. When Hall won it, the Devil made the playoffs. Hall was basically the Devils offence that year. McDavid that year won the Art Ross and was 15 pts ahead of Hall. He was basically the Oilers offence yet they didn't make it so he didn't win.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761672 is a reply to message #761671 ]
Mon, 15 June 2020 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 09:55

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 09:40

As is custom, lots of the media are doing backflips to argue why an Oiler doesn't deserve an award :)

Drai plays with McDavid (even though had better points/60 with Nuge and Yams). Drai scored lots on the PP (PP points no longer matter for this argument). Drai had bad defensive analytics. Panarin did more himself (being way down the standings out of a playoff spot no longer matters this year, that only matters when we're talking about McDavid). And so on...


Does Drai pull it off?

Typically the Hart winner is usually the following:
- Art Ross winner.
- Team makes the playoffs.
- Line driver.

From past winners, the big one is playoffs. When Hall won it, the Devil made the playoffs. Hall was basically the Devils offence that year. McDavid that year won the Art Ross and was 15 pts ahead of Hall. He was basically the Oilers offence yet they didn't make it so he didn't win.


Sorry guys, we all know the key factor for the Hart trophy winner is playing a full season. I checked hockeydb and Draisatl only played 71 games which pretty much disqualifies him.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761673 is a reply to message #761668 ]
Mon, 15 June 2020 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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The rhetoric out there grinds my gears.

If McDavid and Draisaitl swap scoring totals, I don't think there is much of a question that McDavid would win it. Draisaitl is always going to have the "carried by McDavid" nonsense. He is 15 points ahead of the next best forward that isn't on his team, so he was by and large the most productive NHL forward this year. I know Panarin's line mates weren't stars but I don't think that's enough of an argument to overcome a 15 point difference. Also, Kucherov had some pretty great line mates too, that didn't seem to alter voting. I also refuse to discount powerplay points. It's part of hockey, and I wouldn't take that away from anybody else either.

The media seems to really wanna push this rhetoric that you should get the Hart Trophy if you drag a weak team into the playoffs. I think it's absolute nonsense to limiting the conversation of "who is the best player" to that very small subset of players.

In my eyes, John Carlson has a way better argument than any of Panarin or MacKinnon. Those guys weren't even in the top 3 for forward scoring, I see not much of an argument there. Carlson on the other hand was by far the most productive defenseman with 75 points in 69 games. He was on pace for an 89 point season. Nobody in the 2000's has even hit that mark. The most productive defense season in this millenium was Brent Burns 83 points in 2018-19. Carlson was likely going to crush that, and it's too bad he didn't get a chance. I haven't heard his name at all in the Hart conversation. That's par for the course though. A defenseman can put up a historic season in the modern day and they aren't even really mentioned.

In summation, Hart Trophy voting sucks.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761676 is a reply to message #761673 ]
Mon, 15 June 2020 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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smyth260 wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 10:55

The rhetoric out there grinds my gears.

If McDavid and Draisaitl swap scoring totals, I don't think there is much of a question that McDavid would win it. Draisaitl is always going to have the "carried by McDavid" nonsense. He is 15 points ahead of the next best forward that isn't on his team, so he was by and large the most productive NHL forward this year. I know Panarin's line mates weren't stars but I don't think that's enough of an argument to overcome a 15 point difference. Also, Kucherov had some pretty great line mates too, that didn't seem to alter voting. I also refuse to discount powerplay points. It's part of hockey, and I wouldn't take that away from anybody else either.

The media seems to really wanna push this rhetoric that you should get the Hart Trophy if you drag a weak team into the playoffs. I think it's absolute nonsense to limiting the conversation of "who is the best player" to that very small subset of players.

In my eyes, John Carlson has a way better argument than any of Panarin or MacKinnon. Those guys weren't even in the top 3 for forward scoring, I see not much of an argument there. Carlson on the other hand was by far the most productive defenseman with 75 points in 69 games. He was on pace for an 89 point season. Nobody in the 2000's has even hit that mark. The most productive defense season in this millenium was Brent Burns 83 points in 2018-19. Carlson was likely going to crush that, and it's too bad he didn't get a chance. I haven't heard his name at all in the Hart conversation. That's par for the course though. A defenseman can put up a historic season in the modern day and they aren't even really mentioned.

In summation, Hart Trophy voting sucks.


My bet? Draisaitl wins, but it's a lot closer than it should be because some reporters suggest you can't be the MVP of the league if you're not the best player on your team. I expect we're going to see some funny votes on the ballots too - Matthews getting more votes than he should, for example.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761730 is a reply to message #761668 ]
Mon, 15 June 2020 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Pasta wants our boy to win it :)

https://nesn.com/2020/06/why-david-pastrnak-thinks-leon-drai saitl-no-question-should-win-hart-trophy/



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761734 is a reply to message #761730 ]
Tue, 16 June 2020 06:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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I really feel like a conspiracy theory nut, but it really seems to me like whenever an Oiler is up for consideration for a major award, all sorts of mental gymnastics start to get bandied about to support why it should be anyone but the Oiler.

If he doesn't win this year it will be highway robbery.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761735 is a reply to message #761734 ]
Tue, 16 June 2020 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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The one thin that Leon has is the points. Points usually matter in this. He has a 13 pt lead on McDavid and a 15 pt lead on Panarin. He was on pace for 127pts which is more than what Kucherov had last year and no one debated that Kucherov wasn't the Hart winner. If Leon had a 1 or 2 pt lead in pts, maybe you debate it more but he's running away with the scoring title. On top of that, he had a chance at 50 goals again. He had 43 goals and had 11 games left. I think he would have got to 50.

Voters in my opinion don't necessarily see this award as how it's written. It's supposed to be the most valuable player to his team. So if a guy is the only reason why a team scores or wins like was the case a few years ago with McDavid, then where a team ends up in the standings shouldn't carry as much weight as it does. But the voters attach team success to the award regardless of what happens outside of his control. His team was in a playoff spot when the season ended which is very important to most voters. His team has been in a playoff spot since the beginning of the season. They spent a fair amount of time at the top of their division and haven't been out of the top 3 of their division all year I believe. He's played significant amounts of time driving his own line. He spent a fair amount of time without McDavid in the line up and carried his team. I believe he's had weekly or month NHL recognition and he's been one of the best, most dominate players in the NHL this season. There really shouldn't be any reason he doesn't win.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761825 is a reply to message #761730 ]
Wed, 17 June 2020 13:50 Go to previous message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 22:52

Pasta wants our boy to win it :)

https://nesn.com/2020/06/why-david-pastrnak-thinks-leon-drai saitl-no-question-should-win-hart-trophy/


And then the writer goes on to say that Panarin should win.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761760 is a reply to message #761668 ]
Tue, 16 June 2020 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
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I will be annoyed if he loses, but in no way will I be surprised.

I don't fuss too much over individual awards to be honest. Winning the stats game is good enough for me.

There's only one trophy I care about in this sport.



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761762 is a reply to message #761760 ]
Tue, 16 June 2020 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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JPro wrote on Tue, 16 June 2020 11:15

I will be annoyed if he loses, but in no way will I be surprised.

I don't fuss too much over individual awards to be honest. Winning the stats game is good enough for me.

There's only one trophy I care about in this sport.


Best record in the pre-season?



This is fine.

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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761766 is a reply to message #761762 ]
Tue, 16 June 2020 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 16 June 2020 14:31

JPro wrote on Tue, 16 June 2020 11:15

I will be annoyed if he loses, but in no way will I be surprised.

I don't fuss too much over individual awards to be honest. Winning the stats game is good enough for me.

There's only one trophy I care about in this sport.


Best record in the pre-season?


Lady Byng! Make love, not war!!! rock



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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761769 is a reply to message #761760 ]
Tue, 16 June 2020 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie  is currently offline Xombie
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JPro wrote on Tue, 16 June 2020 10:15

I will be annoyed if he loses, but in no way will I be surprised.

I don't fuss too much over individual awards to be honest. Winning the stats game is good enough for me.

There's only one trophy I care about in this sport.


Draft order lottery ball trophy?



Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761799 is a reply to message #761668 ]
Tue, 16 June 2020 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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I say he gets robbed, have zero faith in hockey media IQ.
They support their hockey beat, mostly East, and US media will find a way to contort logic to pick a player from a USA market

It won't matter though.. when Leon or Connor win the Con Smyth! Wave Towel

[Updated on: Tue, 16 June 2020 17:43]


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 Re: Does Drai win the Hart?? [message #761808 is a reply to message #761799 ]
Tue, 16 June 2020 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 June 2020 17:40

I say he gets robbed, have zero faith in hockey media IQ.
They support their hockey beat, mostly East, and US media will find a way to contort logic to pick a player from a USA market

It won't matter though.. when Leon or Connor win the Con Smyth! Wave Towel


The other reason I think he'll win? I think that there's no 100% clear rival. There are definitely some who'll vote Panarin, but I think others will put McKinnon first. I think it'll be closer than it should be, but it'll be our boy.



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