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 Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753981]
Sat, 08 February 2020 23:19 Go to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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Fitness testing on at least 20 draft eligible players. Minimum fine of $250,000 per.

This puts Gary in an awkward spot. He loves his franchise in Arizona.

Is he just gonna tell Bill to wag his finger at them?

https://www.tsn.ca/arizona-coyotes-believed-to-have-fitness- tested-20-plus-draft-eligible-players-1.1439740

[Updated on: Sat, 08 February 2020 23:20]


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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753982 is a reply to message #753981 ]
Sat, 08 February 2020 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowebudget  is currently offline lowebudget
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Honestly, the NHL should penalize Arizona by taking away draft picks. A fine does nothing.


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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753983 is a reply to message #753982 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 02:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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lowebudget wrote on Sat, 08 February 2020 23:45

Honestly, the NHL should penalize Arizona by taking away draft picks. A fine does nothing.

Like they did with NJ? And then NJ just ended up saying, nah we good dawg and never actually gave up the pick.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753985 is a reply to message #753983 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 03:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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bigEfromGP wrote on Sun, 09 February 2020 01:13

lowebudget wrote on Sat, 08 February 2020 23:45

Honestly, the NHL should penalize Arizona by taking away draft picks. A fine does nothing.

Like they did with NJ? And then NJ just ended up saying, nah we good dawg and never actually gave up the pick.


I personally think that the only appropriate punishment is to disqualify them from the playoffs and have them surrender all players to their originally drafted teams.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753987 is a reply to message #753982 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 07:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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lowebudget wrote on Sat, 08 February 2020 23:45

Honestly, the NHL should penalize Arizona by taking away draft picks. A fine does nothing.

It would never happen but a better punishment I think is making a team sit out an entire draft for something this blatant.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753988 is a reply to message #753982 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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lowebudget wrote on Sat, 08 February 2020 23:45

Honestly, the NHL should penalize Arizona by taking away draft picks. A fine does nothing.

Lose picks and the 5 million comes off the cap.

Forced into moving Hall or OEL in order to fit under the CAP in time.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753989 is a reply to message #753988 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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g2k wrote on Sun, 09 February 2020 08:51

lowebudget wrote on Sat, 08 February 2020 23:45

Honestly, the NHL should penalize Arizona by taking away draft picks. A fine does nothing.

Lose picks and the 5 million comes off the cap.

Forced into moving Hall or OEL in order to fit under the CAP in time.


When this first came out I was expecting to hear it was maybe 5 prospects, not at least 20. Yeah, a $250,000 per prospect fine is pretty steep when you take 20 plus prospects into account. But!!! It has to be something other than just a real money fine to make any punishment effective.

It’s a pretty big no no. And from a team that consistently gets considerable assistance from other markets in the form of profit share, a financial hit is a slap on the wrist.

The penalty should be in some form of hockey related discipline, be it cap hit or draft pick loss. The NHL are in a #MUSTWIN situation on this one and can set a real precedent here.

The Oilers had to supply draft picks to teams for hiring their FIRED GM and HC. Just saying.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753993 is a reply to message #753982 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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lowebudget wrote on Sat, 08 February 2020 23:45

Honestly, the NHL should penalize Arizona by taking away draft picks. A fine does nothing.


Would be funny if the punishment made the Devils lose the picks that Arizona traded them. Bettman's revenge after Lou manipulating him so many times.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753990 is a reply to message #753981 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Meh, it's just fitness testing. Not a huge deal.


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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753991 is a reply to message #753990 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Sun, 09 February 2020 10:42

Meh, it's just fitness testing. Not a huge deal.


A rule is a rule and is in place to give teams an equal playing field on prospects. AZ got caught breaking the rule and should be punished accordingly.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #753997 is a reply to message #753991 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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PlusOne wrote on Sun, 09 February 2020 09:58

NetBOG wrote on Sun, 09 February 2020 10:42

Meh, it's just fitness testing. Not a huge deal.


A rule is a rule and is in place to give teams an equal playing field on prospects. AZ got caught breaking the rule and should be punished accordingly.


I agree. Maybe if we had some one on one fitness testing with Puljujarvi we would’ve learned some other things about him that would’ve made us bypass him in the draft. I get that it’s “fitness testing”, but you can’t tell me there wasn’t some sort of discussions going on where they got to know the kid better.

Monetary fines will hurt that franchise, but the Canadian clubs are essentially paying their bill with revenue sharing. Hammer them with draft pick penalties. I’m tired of them receiving only benefits from the league when they provide nothing of value or entertainment.

The only thing they’re good for is cheap NHL tickets when I go on golf trips to Arizona. I don’t go enough to miss them.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754003 is a reply to message #753981 ]
Sun, 09 February 2020 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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So many player agents didn’t pick up on this? I’m sure there is some duplicity, but I doubt it’s one clown representing all of them.

Wonder how may other organizations are thinking “oh crap” right now?



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754078 is a reply to message #754003 ]
Mon, 10 February 2020 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Charging the Yotes fines for each player doesn't do much in my opinion. The Yotes are a heavily subsidized team in revenue sharing. What's the league going to do, cut themselves a cheque for the fine? Losing a few draft picks would be a better punishment but it won't happen.


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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754082 is a reply to message #753981 ]
Mon, 10 February 2020 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Penalize with draft picks, same as what the WHL did to Portland when they were up to no good with their recruiting.


Quote:

The Winterhawks have been fined $200,000 and GM and head coach Mike Johnston has been suspended for the rest of the 2012-13 season, including the playoffs. Additionally, the Winterhawks cannot select a player in the first five rounds of the 2013 WHL bantam draft and also forfeit their first-round selections in the 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 bantam drafts.


https://www.timescolonist.com/sports/whl-slams-portland-for- violations-club-fined-coach-banned-bantam-draft-picks-forfei ted-1.24832



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754084 is a reply to message #754082 ]
Mon, 10 February 2020 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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In my opinion, if the league wants this to be taken seriously, giving a fine doesn't do that. Maybe for a cash strapped team like the Yotes, losing millions hurts but if I was a rich team like the Leafs or others, would paying a couple million to get extra intel on potential players be worth it? Hell yeah.

The draft has come a long way but you are still trying to project what a 17 yr old will be like when he is in 20, 25, 30. So it's still a crap shoot to some degree. So if it costs you 250k to get extra information on a player and that could be the difference between picking a guy that is really good for you for a long time, or a guy who may or may not even make it. So that's a small price to pay in my books. So if the league wants to stop teams from doing it, has to be more than a fine.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754092 is a reply to message #754082 ]
Mon, 10 February 2020 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Assuming the NHL doesn't want to completely remove draft picks from Arizona, because that will hurt their system for potentially years to come, there's an opportunity for them to be a little creative - move all their 2020 draft picks to the last pick of the round. They still get to pick, but they'll get ~15 picks worse with every selection.

Because they dealt their 1st and 3rd round picks away this year anyhow, they wouldn't be hurt as badly as they might in any other year (the NHL would probably have to allow New Jersey and Colorado to maintain their spot in the draft order - not really fair to penalize them for what Arizona did - but anyone else would know that it's the 31st pick of each round if they dealt for them subsequent to the penalties). The precedent would be pretty painful for anyone caught doing this in the future though.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754107 is a reply to message #754092 ]
Mon, 10 February 2020 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 12:12

Assuming the NHL doesn't want to completely remove draft picks from Arizona, because that will hurt their system for potentially years to come, there's an opportunity for them to be a little creative - move all their 2020 draft picks to the last pick of the round. They still get to pick, but they'll get ~15 picks worse with every selection.

Because they dealt their 1st and 3rd round picks away this year anyhow, they wouldn't be hurt as badly as they might in any other year (the NHL would probably have to allow New Jersey and Colorado to maintain their spot in the draft order - not really fair to penalize them for what Arizona did - but anyone else would know that it's the 31st pick of each round if they dealt for them subsequent to the penalties). The precedent would be pretty painful for anyone caught doing this in the future though.



Do it up like the Dub did. Play by the rules or face the consequences.

https://nationalpost.com/sports/whl-suspends-portland-winter hawks-coachgm-and-fines-team-for-violations



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754108 is a reply to message #754107 ]
Mon, 10 February 2020 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 14:33

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 12:12

Assuming the NHL doesn't want to completely remove draft picks from Arizona, because that will hurt their system for potentially years to come, there's an opportunity for them to be a little creative - move all their 2020 draft picks to the last pick of the round. They still get to pick, but they'll get ~15 picks worse with every selection.

Because they dealt their 1st and 3rd round picks away this year anyhow, they wouldn't be hurt as badly as they might in any other year (the NHL would probably have to allow New Jersey and Colorado to maintain their spot in the draft order - not really fair to penalize them for what Arizona did - but anyone else would know that it's the 31st pick of each round if they dealt for them subsequent to the penalties). The precedent would be pretty painful for anyone caught doing this in the future though.



Do it up like the Dub did. Play by the rules or face the consequences.

https://nationalpost.com/sports/whl-suspends-portland-winter hawks-coachgm-and-fines-team-for-violations


That probably makes some sense - but I don't think the NHL is going to take that hard a line here. This is a franchise they've spent considerable effort on, in a market they feel is important and they just aren't going to want to slap them so hard that it significantly hampers the team's ability to compete.

So if they're not going to throw the book at them, they need something that looks heavy-handed enough to discourage other teams from cheating in the future, while not crippling the Coyotes now.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754210 is a reply to message #754108 ]
Tue, 11 February 2020 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 15:12

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 14:33

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 12:12

Assuming the NHL doesn't want to completely remove draft picks from Arizona, because that will hurt their system for potentially years to come, there's an opportunity for them to be a little creative - move all their 2020 draft picks to the last pick of the round. They still get to pick, but they'll get ~15 picks worse with every selection.

Because they dealt their 1st and 3rd round picks away this year anyhow, they wouldn't be hurt as badly as they might in any other year (the NHL would probably have to allow New Jersey and Colorado to maintain their spot in the draft order - not really fair to penalize them for what Arizona did - but anyone else would know that it's the 31st pick of each round if they dealt for them subsequent to the penalties). The precedent would be pretty painful for anyone caught doing this in the future though.



Do it up like the Dub did. Play by the rules or face the consequences.

https://nationalpost.com/sports/whl-suspends-portland-winter hawks-coachgm-and-fines-team-for-violations


That probably makes some sense - but I don't think the NHL is going to take that hard a line here. This is a franchise they've spent considerable effort on, in a market they feel is important and they just aren't going to want to slap them so hard that it significantly hampers the team's ability to compete.

So if they're not going to throw the book at them, they need something that looks heavy-handed enough to discourage other teams from cheating in the future, while not crippling the Coyotes now.


I also don't think they will either, but if you drew a line in the sand and followed through with heavy tactics if someone crossed, I guarantee you it would be a deterrent for others who were considering on breaking rules in the future. That line SHOULD apply to everyone equally.

Really my only wish is for League wide consistency. It was terrible watching Lou get away with BS, while we got penalized for hiring someone's sloppy seconds.Then you have teams circumventing the cap with some pretty sketchy injury claims (Hossa, Lupul) or trading guys who are on LTIR or who have left the NHL (Pronger/Datysyuk). Frustrating.

The league is a farce. If Kevin Lowe feels he can tier his Oilers supporters it comes from a place of familiarity. The League has been flavouring franchises forever. In the eyes of NHL, Canadian teams west of Toronto are Tier 3's.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #754212 is a reply to message #754210 ]
Tue, 11 February 2020 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 11 February 2020 13:12

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 15:12

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 14:33

Adam wrote on Mon, 10 February 2020 12:12

Assuming the NHL doesn't want to completely remove draft picks from Arizona, because that will hurt their system for potentially years to come, there's an opportunity for them to be a little creative - move all their 2020 draft picks to the last pick of the round. They still get to pick, but they'll get ~15 picks worse with every selection.

Because they dealt their 1st and 3rd round picks away this year anyhow, they wouldn't be hurt as badly as they might in any other year (the NHL would probably have to allow New Jersey and Colorado to maintain their spot in the draft order - not really fair to penalize them for what Arizona did - but anyone else would know that it's the 31st pick of each round if they dealt for them subsequent to the penalties). The precedent would be pretty painful for anyone caught doing this in the future though.



Do it up like the Dub did. Play by the rules or face the consequences.

https://nationalpost.com/sports/whl-suspends-portland-winter hawks-coachgm-and-fines-team-for-violations


That probably makes some sense - but I don't think the NHL is going to take that hard a line here. This is a franchise they've spent considerable effort on, in a market they feel is important and they just aren't going to want to slap them so hard that it significantly hampers the team's ability to compete.

So if they're not going to throw the book at them, they need something that looks heavy-handed enough to discourage other teams from cheating in the future, while not crippling the Coyotes now.


I also don't think they will either, but if you drew a line in the sand and followed through with heavy tactics if someone crossed, I guarantee you it would be a deterrent for others who were considering on breaking rules in the future. That line SHOULD apply to everyone equally.

Really my only wish is for League wide consistency. It was terrible watching Lou get away with BS, while we got penalized for hiring someone's sloppy seconds.Then you have teams circumventing the cap with some pretty sketchy injury claims (Hossa, Lupul) or trading guys who are on LTIR or who have left the NHL (Pronger/Datysyuk). Frustrating.

The league is a farce. If Kevin Lowe feels he can tier his Oilers supporters it comes from a place of familiarity. The League has been flavouring franchises forever. In the eyes of NHL, Canadian teams west of Toronto are Tier 3's.


As if hiring Chiarelli wasn’t enough of a punishment on its own!



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #762608 is a reply to message #753981 ]
Sat, 27 June 2020 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Underrated moment in the Yzerman press conference was when he was talking about how no teams have the testing they normally would have gotten at the combine.

"Every team but one, actually."



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #762626 is a reply to message #762608 ]
Sun, 28 June 2020 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 27 June 2020 13:15

Max Bultman @m_bultman
Underrated moment in the Yzerman press conference was when he was talking about how no teams have the testing they normally would have gotten at the combine.

"Every team but one, actually."



Did he actually say that ? LOL! rofl
Beauty.

Just when Arizona and their NHL backers were thinking everyone had probably forgotten about it .. Stevie puts it on the front burner.. awesome.



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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765965 is a reply to message #762626 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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And the price Arizona pays is:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/coyotes-forfeit-two-dra ft-picks-penalty-combine-testing-violation/





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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765966 is a reply to message #765965 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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DAMN!! The NHL actually disciplined a team for being bad. I am a bit surprised.


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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765988 is a reply to message #765966 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:02

DAMN!! The NHL actually disciplined a team for being bad. I am a bit surprised.



Hey, Lou Lamarillo wasn't the GM this time.. still Arizona is an NHL incubator franchise.. surprised at the 1st, but happy about it. I think the Arizona GM that just left, it was speculated he left for a better job, I think he was booted out or he'd have been removed by the NHL.



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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765993 is a reply to message #765988 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 18:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:02

DAMN!! The NHL actually disciplined a team for being bad. I am a bit surprised.



Hey, Lou Lamarillo wasn't the GM this time.. still Arizona is an NHL incubator franchise.. surprised at the 1st, but happy about it. I think the Arizona GM that just left, it was speculated he left for a better job, I think he was booted out or he'd have been removed by the NHL.


Given the statements from the Coyotes on his departure, I don't believe for a second he was fired. He's resurfacing very soon with the Devils & their larger sports organization. He ends up walking away scot-free for his transgressions. Who knows - maybe it was that willingness to break the rules that attracted the other team to him (also in violation of tampering rules)...



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765968 is a reply to message #765965 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:56

And the price Arizona pays is:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/coyotes-forfeit-two-dra ft-picks-penalty-combine-testing-violation/



Way more than I was expecting for Arizona. That first has got to hurt.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765974 is a reply to message #765968 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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JPro wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 13:34

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:56

And the price Arizona pays is:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/coyotes-forfeit-two-dra ft-picks-penalty-combine-testing-violation/



Way more than I was expecting for Arizona. That first has got to hurt.


Guess they better hope the sneaky stuff lets them land a gem in a later round :)



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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765976 is a reply to message #765974 ]
Wed, 26 August 2020 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 14:40

JPro wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 13:34

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:56

And the price Arizona pays is:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/coyotes-forfeit-two-dra ft-picks-penalty-combine-testing-violation/



Way more than I was expecting for Arizona. That first has got to hurt.


Guess they better hope the sneaky stuff lets them land a gem in a later round :)


Now we have to wait and see if they stick to the punishment or they don't just give them a pass on it next year like they did for the Devils around the Kovalchuk contract...



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765994 is a reply to message #765976 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I heard Gregor talking yesterday how he knows Coyotes staff would show up at junior games and ask players to do workouts right after a game. Both major junior and Junior A. He's got a nephew that is just starting out his NHL career so I assume he has first hand knowledge.

I would think what they did was pretty significant. Taking away a teams first round pick is a a pretty big punishment. Those are gold to teams.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765998 is a reply to message #765994 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:06

I heard Gregor talking yesterday how he knows Coyotes staff would show up at junior games and ask players to do workouts right after a game. Both major junior and Junior A. He's got a nephew that is just starting out his NHL career so I assume he has first hand knowledge.

I would think what they did was pretty significant. Taking away a teams first round pick is a a pretty big punishment. Those are gold to teams.


Again - if they stick to their guns and actually hold Arizona to the punishment. I could see them arguing similar to the Devils with Kovalchuk that the offender is gone from there anyhow, so why should the team get penalized? They'll have already lost their second round pick, so take pity on them!

It shouldn't work but it might.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #765999 is a reply to message #765998 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Adam wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 13:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:06

I heard Gregor talking yesterday how he knows Coyotes staff would show up at junior games and ask players to do workouts right after a game. Both major junior and Junior A. He's got a nephew that is just starting out his NHL career so I assume he has first hand knowledge.

I would think what they did was pretty significant. Taking away a teams first round pick is a a pretty big punishment. Those are gold to teams.


Again - if they stick to their guns and actually hold Arizona to the punishment. I could see them arguing similar to the Devils with Kovalchuk that the offender is gone from there anyhow, so why should the team get penalized? They'll have already lost their second round pick, so take pity on them!

It shouldn't work but it might.


Dammit - we couldn't have argued "Chia and McLellan suck, give us back our picks"?



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #766001 is a reply to message #765998 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:06

I heard Gregor talking yesterday how he knows Coyotes staff would show up at junior games and ask players to do workouts right after a game. Both major junior and Junior A. He's got a nephew that is just starting out his NHL career so I assume he has first hand knowledge.

I would think what they did was pretty significant. Taking away a teams first round pick is a a pretty big punishment. Those are gold to teams.


Again - if they stick to their guns and actually hold Arizona to the punishment. I could see them arguing similar to the Devils with Kovalchuk that the offender is gone from there anyhow, so why should the team get penalized? They'll have already lost their second round pick, so take pity on them!

It shouldn't work but it might.

But the organization is not just 1 guy. There is the owner, Presidents, GM's, assistant GM's, scouts etc. The GM is gone but the rest aren't. I doubt it was the former GM going to small Canadian towns making kids to a workout in front of him. Others would have been involved.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #766005 is a reply to message #766001 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:43

Adam wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:06

I heard Gregor talking yesterday how he knows Coyotes staff would show up at junior games and ask players to do workouts right after a game. Both major junior and Junior A. He's got a nephew that is just starting out his NHL career so I assume he has first hand knowledge.

I would think what they did was pretty significant. Taking away a teams first round pick is a a pretty big punishment. Those are gold to teams.


Again - if they stick to their guns and actually hold Arizona to the punishment. I could see them arguing similar to the Devils with Kovalchuk that the offender is gone from there anyhow, so why should the team get penalized? They'll have already lost their second round pick, so take pity on them!

It shouldn't work but it might.

But the organization is not just 1 guy. There is the owner, Presidents, GM's, assistant GM's, scouts etc. The GM is gone but the rest aren't. I doubt it was the former GM going to small Canadian towns making kids to a workout in front of him. Others would have been involved.


Hey, I'm with you. I don't think the NHL should back down...but I thought the same with the Kovalchuk penalty and the NHL didn't even explain their reasoning as they gave back the Devils the pick they forfeited for trying to end-run the system.


Mike wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:32


Dammit - we couldn't have argued "Chia and McLellan suck, give us back our picks"?



Yes - we SHOULD have argued that. And that it was unfair since it was a stupid rule that they stopped right afterwards and almost no one got dinged on it except us.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #766007 is a reply to message #766005 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 12:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:43

Adam wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:06

I heard Gregor talking yesterday how he knows Coyotes staff would show up at junior games and ask players to do workouts right after a game. Both major junior and Junior A. He's got a nephew that is just starting out his NHL career so I assume he has first hand knowledge.

I would think what they did was pretty significant. Taking away a teams first round pick is a a pretty big punishment. Those are gold to teams.


Again - if they stick to their guns and actually hold Arizona to the punishment. I could see them arguing similar to the Devils with Kovalchuk that the offender is gone from there anyhow, so why should the team get penalized? They'll have already lost their second round pick, so take pity on them!

It shouldn't work but it might.

But the organization is not just 1 guy. There is the owner, Presidents, GM's, assistant GM's, scouts etc. The GM is gone but the rest aren't. I doubt it was the former GM going to small Canadian towns making kids to a workout in front of him. Others would have been involved.


Hey, I'm with you. I don't think the NHL should back down...but I thought the same with the Kovalchuk penalty and the NHL didn't even explain their reasoning as they gave back the Devils the pick they forfeited for trying to end-run the system.


Mike wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 10:32


Dammit - we couldn't have argued "Chia and McLellan suck, give us back our picks"?



Yes - we SHOULD have argued that. And that it was unfair since it was a stupid rule that they stopped right afterwards and almost no one got dinged on it except us.

That is Lou though when he was with the Devils. He does what he wants. He probably has dirt on everyone in the NHL that he just reminds people about when it's needed.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #766011 is a reply to message #766007 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 12:22


That is Lou though when he was with the Devils. He does what he wants. He probably has dirt on everyone in the NHL that he just reminds people about when it's needed.



I think the problem is more at the NHL level than who the GM is. They're remarkably inconsistent with these things. Look no further than the ridiculous Lucic/Neal decision.

This shouldn't come down to whether someone at league offices owes a favour to someone or whether the guy has enough pull or "has dirt" on people.

The NHL's levied a punishment. We've seen in the past that doesn't always mean they're going to enforce that - and this is a team who's success the league is heavily invested in to. I hope they do stick to their guns, but I know better than to think that's a certainty - especially with the league making the more painful punishment come further out and with the easy excuse that this was all the GM's fault anyhow...whether that's true at all or not.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #766014 is a reply to message #765965 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:56

And the price Arizona pays is:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/coyotes-forfeit-two-dra ft-picks-penalty-combine-testing-violation/




John Chayka really sewered this team, before just abandoning them.

Really interesting that the first round pick they traded this year for Taylor Hall was to the New Jersey Devils... the ownership team Chayka was reportedly interviewing with at the time and wants to go work for now. I don't think you can negate that trade at this point (and the price was actually probably fair), but there clearly was a conflict of interest and the NHL should not approve letting him anywhere near the Devils organization (or perhaps any other for a while)

The Coyotes behaved unethically, but that very much seems to be the mode of operation for Chayka.



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #766027 is a reply to message #766014 ]
Thu, 27 August 2020 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 27 August 2020 14:09

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 26 August 2020 12:56

And the price Arizona pays is:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/coyotes-forfeit-two-dra ft-picks-penalty-combine-testing-violation/




John Chayka really sewered this team, before just abandoning them.

Really interesting that the first round pick they traded this year for Taylor Hall was to the New Jersey Devils... the ownership team Chayka was reportedly interviewing with at the time and wants to go work for now. I don't think you can negate that trade at this point (and the price was actually probably fair), but there clearly was a conflict of interest and the NHL should not approve letting him anywhere near the Devils organization (or perhaps any other for a while)

The Coyotes behaved unethically, but that very much seems to be the mode of operation for Chayka.


Depends when the conversations between Chayka and the ownership of the Devils took place. It's certainly possible that they were impressed with him in those negotiations but had not had any discussions about Chayka's future before the trade was made. My understanding is that most of the drama happened after the league was shut down in the Spring, which would mean the deal was untainted.

If I was the owner though, I'd be pushing Bettman to give me back the picks from New Jersey for tampering...



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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #766342 is a reply to message #766027 ]
Sun, 06 September 2020 08:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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I would never have gussed this guy would ever be considered to become General Manager of the Coyotes.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/broadcaster-pierre-mcgu ire-interviewed-coyotes-gm-position/

No love for Peter Chiarelli?




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 Re: Arizona is in deep doo doo [message #766359 is a reply to message #766342 ]
Mon, 07 September 2020 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Leia  is currently offline Leia
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GabbyDugan wrote on Sun, 06 September 2020 08:29

I would never have gussed this guy would ever be considered to become General Manager of the Coyotes.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/broadcaster-pierre-mcgu ire-interviewed-coyotes-gm-position/

No love for Peter Chiarelli?


Chiarelli will be President of Hockey operations...... A double whammy.



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