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 Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721164]
Sat, 27 October 2018 19:00 Go to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Elliot Friedman is saying that the Edmonton Oilers have given Zack Kassian permission to seek out a trade. Sounds like he is unhappy with the current situation.


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721165 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 19:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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NetBOG wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 19:00

Elliot Friedman is saying that the Edmonton Oilers have given Zack Kassian permission to seek out a trade. Sounds like he is unhappy with the current situation.


Don't get what happened with this guy. Gets a 2nd chance here. Re-establishes himself as a bottom 6 NHLer. Pretty good playoffs. Gets a new multi-year deal, and then starts to just play like ass. Lazy play, dumb penalties. Looks like an NHLer maybe once every 15 games.

Definitely a guy that needed the 1 year deals over and over.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721166 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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NetBOG wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 18:00

Elliot Friedman is saying that the Edmonton Oilers have given Zack Kassian permission to seek out a trade. Sounds like he is unhappy with the current situation.


He's seeing Chaisson go by him up the roster, I think he figures he's stuck on the 4th line or press box, watching his career slide by. He can play higher up, might get his chance if another team is willing to cough up enough. Unfortunate its now public. Probably its been the situation for awhile, which might explain his play, and his usage by the coach. There is a player there, he's proved it, a good coach should be able to get that out of his players.

I'll miss the guy, he provides a level of menace on the team that is sadly missing except for Lucic and Nurse.



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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks, K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721169 is a reply to message #721166 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 19:09

NetBOG wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 18:00

Elliot Friedman is saying that the Edmonton Oilers have given Zack Kassian permission to seek out a trade. Sounds like he is unhappy with the current situation.


He's seeing Chaisson go by him up the roster, I think he figures he's stuck on the 4th line or press box, watching his career slide by. He can play higher up, might get his chance if another team is willing to cough up enough. Unfortunate its now public. Probably its been the situation for awhile, which might explain his play, and his usage by the coach. There is a player there, he's proved it, a good coach should be able to get that out of his players.

I'll miss the guy, he provides a level of menace on the team that is sadly missing except for Lucic and Nurse.


Yeah, I don't share that optimism. For me he is textbook fourth liner. And for the first two years, pretty good in that role, but this year his defensive game had taken a nosedive, and he isn't one of the best 12 forwards on the Oilers roster.

He's never hit 30 points in six NHL seasons. He managed 29 when the Sedins were feeding him pucks, but traditionally he registers under 20 points. Throw in his tendency for bad penalties (which isn't offset by his ability to draw penalties), and the emergence of someone like Khaira (who I think fills the Kassian role better than Kassian), and I'm okay moving on from him. Loved him in the playoffs that one year though.

He'll be tough to move at his contract and at his production, but clearing his contract might be beneficial for the Oilers if they can.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721241 is a reply to message #721166 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 19:09

NetBOG wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 18:00

Elliot Friedman is saying that the Edmonton Oilers have given Zack Kassian permission to seek out a trade. Sounds like he is unhappy with the current situation.


He's seeing Chaisson go by him up the roster, I think he figures he's stuck on the 4th line or press box, watching his career slide by. He can play higher up, might get his chance if another team is willing to cough up enough. Unfortunate its now public. Probably its been the situation for awhile, which might explain his play, and his usage by the coach. There is a player there, he's proved it, a good coach should be able to get that out of his players.

I'll miss the guy, he provides a level of menace on the team that is sadly missing except for Lucic and Nurse.


The issue isn't just how he has been this season but all last year. There was no one pushing him for a spot and he was awful all last year. He was drafted 13th overall in 2009. He's got the size, speed and skill to be more than just a 4th line winger. He showed that his first year with the Oilers and they signed him thinking he could he a 3rd liner. He hasn't come close. I don't know what happened to him but he has not been good at all.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721300 is a reply to message #721241 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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...Kassian says his agent didn't ask for a trade just asked why he wasn't in the line-up...

https://www.tsn.ca/oilers-kassian-says-he-didn-t-request-tra de-1.1200902

....“I didn’t ask for a trade," Kassian said, per Jason Gregor of TSN Radio 1260 Winnipeg. "When I got healthy scratched my agent did his job and reached out to Peter to see what was up. I hadn’t played well early, but feel our line is coming on. I addressed my teammates and I want to help us. We are in a good spot now.”....

....didn't know that there was also a TSN 1260 in Winnipeg that had a reporter named Jason Gregor, too....interesting coincidence....

...just my own opinion, but I think Zack Kassian needs the Edmonton Oilers more than the Edmonton Oilers need Zack Kassian....I like Kassian when he is on top of his game, but he often seems unmotivated...





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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721301 is a reply to message #721300 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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If this is the case, why didn't the Oilers make a statement saying so?


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721303 is a reply to message #721301 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 12:43

If this is the case, why didn't the Oilers make a statement saying so?

Because why would a hockey club protect their assets? Makes no sense.

I wonder if Puljujarvi's agent has asked that sensible question.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721304 is a reply to message #721303 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 12:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 12:43

If this is the case, why didn't the Oilers make a statement saying so?

Because why would a hockey club protect their assets? Makes no sense.

I wonder if Puljujarvi's agent has asked that sensible question.


A few things on this:

- the full quote is much longer and does include the admission that there was a discussion between agent and GM about seeking other teams as a potential solution.
- this again shows that it was not in the players interest to have this leak. He's saying that his agent is doing his job here, so he's not unhappy with his agent. The leak almost certainly came from the Oilers.
- this, like so many other situations, has been mismanaged by the Oilers. They are leaking, they aren't issuing public denials. Either Kassian's downplaying what actually happened, or the Oilers over-reacted to being questioned by an agent. Both of those would be concerning.




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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721172 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
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I thought that was weird. So the agent is going to be calling GMs and try to arrange a trade? How often does this happen.


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721173 is a reply to message #721172 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Pseudoreality wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 20:56

I thought that was weird. So the agent is going to be calling GMs and try to arrange a trade? How often does this happen.


I don't think it's SUPER rare. It seems to me it happens usually when it is a player request and the GM isn't optimistic he can find a trading partner. Kind of permission to sell the player and do a sales pitch around the league.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721174 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Ah the effects of marriage on a guy.

Seriously though, something seems off with him of late. He’s also lost his, seemingly, best friend in the Organization in Patty Maroon this summer.

Don’t want to make excuses for a guy but that could play a part in it also.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721177 is a reply to message #721174 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 23:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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OilMJMOil wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 20:27

Ah the effects of marriage on a guy.

Seriously though, something seems off with him of late. He’s also lost his, seemingly, best friend in the Organization in Patty Maroon this summer.

Don’t want to make excuses for a guy but that could play a part in it also.


I agree something hasn't been right. He just got married this past summer, like mid July. I doubt he got his usual training in, and less hockey focus, as you'd expect. I would imagine being married AND a pro-hockey life can be a huge adjustment. I'm hoping he stays, Oilers will need him, super thin at NHL caliber forward.



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Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks, K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721184 is a reply to message #721177 ]
Sun, 28 October 2018 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 23:28

OilMJMOil wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 20:27

Ah the effects of marriage on a guy.

Seriously though, something seems off with him of late. He’s also lost his, seemingly, best friend in the Organization in Patty Maroon this summer.

Don’t want to make excuses for a guy but that could play a part in it also.


I agree something hasn't been right. He just got married this past summer, like mid July. I doubt he got his usual training in, and less hockey focus, as you'd expect. I would imagine being married AND a pro-hockey life can be a huge adjustment. I'm hoping he stays, Oilers will need him, super thin at NHL caliber forward.



What was his excuse for beijg useless last year? Guess he has been extra bad this year, but he took a step back last year too after getting his new contract.

[Updated on: Sun, 28 October 2018 08:12]


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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721188 is a reply to message #721184 ]
Sun, 28 October 2018 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
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We will see what his agent can do. It will be tough. I bet he would clear waivers right now and the Oilers can't take on any salary in a trade. So it would likely be a garbage in, garbage out trade. Any other bubble NHL players making $2MM/year looking for a new start in Edmonton?


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721195 is a reply to message #721188 ]
Sun, 28 October 2018 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
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Pseudoreality wrote on Sun, 28 October 2018 10:11

We will see what his agent can do. It will be tough. I bet he would clear waivers right now and the Oilers can't take on any salary in a trade. So it would likely be a garbage in, garbage out trade. Any other bubble NHL players making $2MM/year looking for a new start in Edmonton?

Unless the agent goes to PC and says, "I have a package: Kassian and Puljujarvi for X"

I'm not entirely convinced PC would say no to that. Might even be a better deal than what PC could swing on his own, given his track record.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721196 is a reply to message #721188 ]
Sun, 28 October 2018 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Pseudoreality wrote on Sun, 28 October 2018 10:11

We will see what his agent can do. It will be tough. I bet he would clear waivers right now and the Oilers can't take on any salary in a trade. So it would likely be a garbage in, garbage out trade. Any other bubble NHL players making $2MM/year looking for a new start in Edmonton?


I saw someone suggest Kassian for Gagner with Vancouver retaining some salary. Which would be pretty funny. This was a suggestion not a rumour.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721234 is a reply to message #721184 ]
Sun, 28 October 2018 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 28 October 2018 08:10

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 23:28

OilMJMOil wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 20:27

Ah the effects of marriage on a guy.

Seriously though, something seems off with him of late. He’s also lost his, seemingly, best friend in the Organization in Patty Maroon this summer.

Don’t want to make excuses for a guy but that could play a part in it also.


I agree something hasn't been right. He just got married this past summer, like mid July. I doubt he got his usual training in, and less hockey focus, as you'd expect. I would imagine being married AND a pro-hockey life can be a huge adjustment. I'm hoping he stays, Oilers will need him, super thin at NHL caliber forward.



What was his excuse for beijg useless last year? Guess he has been extra bad this year, but he took a step back last year too after getting his new contract.


Pretty certain that Zack Kassian was told early last year that if he took offensive zone penalties, he'd see negative consequences. That's in keeping with how McLellan handled Pouliot, and it's in keeping with the ultra conservative coaching style focussed on no mistakes.

If you're a player who forechecks hard and plays on the edge, eventually you will take penalties.

The stats bear this out too...I looked at his penalty stats, and saw at first that they only dropped from 101 to 92 last year, but then realized he had one game with a major meltdown - was assessed 28 minutes in penalties - and that when you take that out, he is way down year-over-year on the number of minors incurred. Now, penalties in isolation are a negative event, but if you have a guy who aggressively forechecks, they're going to be a fact of life. The gamble is that for every penalty you take, you've exacted a physical toll on the other team on so many other plays, you've created turnovers, you've generated scoring chances, and you've forced the other team to take penalties on you too.

I don't think Kassian forechecked the same after the first couple of months of last year, and you can see the results if you look at the game logs. He at one point goes a full month without a penalty!

As for the strategy the Oilers have employed here, as I said in the other thread, it's terrible. Having the agent make the calls is tantamount to saying that the team feels there's no value and will be no takers. They can't bluff that at all, and so any trade that happens is simply us getting minimal return and possibly keeping some salary.

The fact that this was blabbed to the media is again, so Oilers. There's no good reason to tell everyone that, except to irritate Oilers fans and make them more sympathetic to the Oilers management and less sympathetic to Kassian, so when we trade him for pennies on the dollar, there isn't people overly upset with the move.

There's a pattern here emerging too. Slepyshev, Lucic, and Kassian have all asked for trades in the last 10 months. They've all been told to get their agent to act as a go-between. They've all had their trade requests leaked to the media. This shouldn't be standard operating procedure, and it shouldn't be happening this often, especially on a team with Connor McDavid. Players should be wanting to come here, not be desperate to get out. Somehow, I don't believe that this is because it's cold and dry here in the winter...



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721302 is a reply to message #721234 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Sun, 28 October 2018 23:46

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 28 October 2018 08:10

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 23:28

OilMJMOil wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 20:27

Ah the effects of marriage on a guy.

Seriously though, something seems off with him of late. He’s also lost his, seemingly, best friend in the Organization in Patty Maroon this summer.

Don’t want to make excuses for a guy but that could play a part in it also.


I agree something hasn't been right. He just got married this past summer, like mid July. I doubt he got his usual training in, and less hockey focus, as you'd expect. I would imagine being married AND a pro-hockey life can be a huge adjustment. I'm hoping he stays, Oilers will need him, super thin at NHL caliber forward.



What was his excuse for beijg useless last year? Guess he has been extra bad this year, but he took a step back last year too after getting his new contract.


Pretty certain that Zack Kassian was told early last year that if he took offensive zone penalties, he'd see negative consequences. That's in keeping with how McLellan handled Pouliot, and it's in keeping with the ultra conservative coaching style focussed on no mistakes.

If you're a player who forechecks hard and plays on the edge, eventually you will take penalties.

The stats bear this out too...I looked at his penalty stats, and saw at first that they only dropped from 101 to 92 last year, but then realized he had one game with a major meltdown - was assessed 28 minutes in penalties - and that when you take that out, he is way down year-over-year on the number of minors incurred. Now, penalties in isolation are a negative event, but if you have a guy who aggressively forechecks, they're going to be a fact of life. The gamble is that for every penalty you take, you've exacted a physical toll on the other team on so many other plays, you've created turnovers, you've generated scoring chances, and you've forced the other team to take penalties on you too.

I don't think Kassian forechecked the same after the first couple of months of last year, and you can see the results if you look at the game logs. He at one point goes a full month without a penalty!

As for the strategy the Oilers have employed here, as I said in the other thread, it's terrible. Having the agent make the calls is tantamount to saying that the team feels there's no value and will be no takers. They can't bluff that at all, and so any trade that happens is simply us getting minimal return and possibly keeping some salary.

The fact that this was blabbed to the media is again, so Oilers. There's no good reason to tell everyone that, except to irritate Oilers fans and make them more sympathetic to the Oilers management and less sympathetic to Kassian, so when we trade him for pennies on the dollar, there isn't people overly upset with the move.

There's a pattern here emerging too. Slepyshev, Lucic, and Kassian have all asked for trades in the last 10 months. They've all been told to get their agent to act as a go-between. They've all had their trade requests leaked to the media. This shouldn't be standard operating procedure, and it shouldn't be happening this often, especially on a team with Connor McDavid. Players should be wanting to come here, not be desperate to get out. Somehow, I don't believe that this is because it's cold and dry here in the winter...


So you are telling us that it's physically impossible for a player to play hard and forecheck hard without taking a penalty? You can't be serious. I understand that penalties will happen sometimes but I don't think a coach asking his players to not take stupid penalties is a terrible thing.

What does your coach telling a player to not take dumb penalties have to do with Kassian not skating, giving the puck away, doing fly byes in the defensive zone, not picking up his man? The main reasons he was scratched. You can skate hard into the zone and give a guy a clean body check on the forecheck and not take a penalty. You don't have to give a guy the stick after or give him an extra shot to the head or ram your glove into his face. You can be physical and hard to play against and all that stuff that when Kassian is playing well and not take a ton of bad penalties. Lots of guys do it.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721305 is a reply to message #721302 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 12:51


So you are telling us that it's physically impossible for a player to play hard and forecheck hard without taking a penalty? You can't be serious. I understand that penalties will happen sometimes but I don't think a coach asking his players to not take stupid penalties is a terrible thing.

What does your coach telling a player to not take dumb penalties have to do with Kassian not skating, giving the puck away, doing fly byes in the defensive zone, not picking up his man? The main reasons he was scratched. You can skate hard into the zone and give a guy a clean body check on the forecheck and not take a penalty. You don't have to give a guy the stick after or give him an extra shot to the head or ram your glove into his face. You can be physical and hard to play against and all that stuff that when Kassian is playing well and not take a ton of bad penalties. Lots of guys do it.


Once again, you're inserting meaning that isn't there. Aggressive players who play on the edge will take penalties. It's part of the bargain there.

Remove the forgiveness for a certain amount of transgressions, and you can remove the aggression.

If it was only one player we saw this with, maybe you could simply point to player issues but we've seen with McLellan that he would prefer his depth players to be extremely low event. That means he'd prefer they lay less hits and turnover less pucks in favour of taking fewer penalties. The stats are there if you care to go looking for them.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721306 is a reply to message #721305 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 13:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 12:51


So you are telling us that it's physically impossible for a player to play hard and forecheck hard without taking a penalty? You can't be serious. I understand that penalties will happen sometimes but I don't think a coach asking his players to not take stupid penalties is a terrible thing.

What does your coach telling a player to not take dumb penalties have to do with Kassian not skating, giving the puck away, doing fly byes in the defensive zone, not picking up his man? The main reasons he was scratched. You can skate hard into the zone and give a guy a clean body check on the forecheck and not take a penalty. You don't have to give a guy the stick after or give him an extra shot to the head or ram your glove into his face. You can be physical and hard to play against and all that stuff that when Kassian is playing well and not take a ton of bad penalties. Lots of guys do it.


Once again, you're inserting meaning that isn't there. Aggressive players who play on the edge will take penalties. It's part of the bargain there.

Remove the forgiveness for a certain amount of transgressions, and you can remove the aggression.

If it was only one player we saw this with, maybe you could simply point to player issues but we've seen with McLellan that he would prefer his depth players to be extremely low event. That means he'd prefer they lay less hits and turnover less pucks in favour of taking fewer penalties. The stats are there if you care to go looking for them.

No I am not. You can be an aggressive player and not take a crap load of stupid penalties. Larsson is a very physical, aggressive, nasty player and because of the way he plays, some penalties will happen but he doesn't take a lot of dump penalties. Why can't Kassian do that? Why does Kassian have to take a roughing penalty with just over 5 mins left in Nashville? He didn't need to give Turris the extra stuff but he did. You can forecheck hard, you can play the body without throwing in an extra shot or do something else that causes a penalty. If Kassian goes hard on the forecheck, lays a clean body check on a player and the ref gives him a BS penalty for it, I really doubt he's catching crap from McLellan.

So I don't buy your excuse for Kassian. If he as a player can't find away to play his game without taking a bad penalty then that's on him. If he goes to another team and he's taking bad penalties, I can guarantee who ever is is coach won't be happy with it.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 October 2018 14:48]


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721308 is a reply to message #721306 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 14:45


No I am not. You can be an aggressive player and not take a crap load of stupid penalties. Larsson is a very physical, aggressive, nasty player and because of the way he plays, some penalties will happen but he doesn't take a lot of dump penalties. Why can't Kassian do that? Why does Kassian have to take a roughing penalty with just over 5 mins left in Nashville? He didn't need to give Turris the extra stuff but he did. You can forecheck hard, you can play the body without throwing in an extra shot or do something else that causes a penalty. If Kassian goes hard on the forecheck, lays a clean body check on a player and the ref gives him a BS penalty for it, I really doubt he's catching crap from McLellan.

So I don't buy your excuse for Kassian. If he as a player can't find away to play his game without taking a bad penalty then that's on him. If he goes to another team and he's taking bad penalties, I can guarantee who ever is is coach won't be happy with it.


Stupid penalties are ones for punching people after the whistle. Forechecking penalties are different, and for some reason in Edmonton, it was decided a few years ago that any penalty taken in the opposing zone is a bad penalty. We've heard it on the Oilers broadcasts since Moreau was here - "that's a penalty 200 ft from his net, and you just can't do that..." - it's the same thing we heard when the Oilers were running down Pouliot's value, and we've heard it with Kassian too.

I don't mind a little bit of snarl in a player, even knowing that will result in the occasional extra minor. I'd rather kill off those penalties than a weak slash, knowing that it has made the other team pay a price and potentially think twice going in to the corner the next time.

A good coach is going to take the good with the bad on players. You live with killing the extra penalties if there is enough generated by that player to cover for it. It's like giveaways - they can be very costly, but if you take risks, then you're going to have a higher rate of giveaways. If a player is generating more great chances through taking those risks than they're giving up, then it's worthwhile. Same thing goes with aggression and the penalties that come with it. If you simply focus on the one act and see that as a mistake without considering the other side of that coin? Then you're probably not a good coach.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721313 is a reply to message #721308 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 15:21

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 14:45


No I am not. You can be an aggressive player and not take a crap load of stupid penalties. Larsson is a very physical, aggressive, nasty player and because of the way he plays, some penalties will happen but he doesn't take a lot of dump penalties. Why can't Kassian do that? Why does Kassian have to take a roughing penalty with just over 5 mins left in Nashville? He didn't need to give Turris the extra stuff but he did. You can forecheck hard, you can play the body without throwing in an extra shot or do something else that causes a penalty. If Kassian goes hard on the forecheck, lays a clean body check on a player and the ref gives him a BS penalty for it, I really doubt he's catching crap from McLellan.

So I don't buy your excuse for Kassian. If he as a player can't find away to play his game without taking a bad penalty then that's on him. If he goes to another team and he's taking bad penalties, I can guarantee who ever is is coach won't be happy with it.


Stupid penalties are ones for punching people after the whistle. Forechecking penalties are different, and for some reason in Edmonton, it was decided a few years ago that any penalty taken in the opposing zone is a bad penalty. We've heard it on the Oilers broadcasts since Moreau was here - "that's a penalty 200 ft from his net, and you just can't do that..." - it's the same thing we heard when the Oilers were running down Pouliot's value, and we've heard it with Kassian too.

I don't mind a little bit of snarl in a player, even knowing that will result in the occasional extra minor. I'd rather kill off those penalties than a weak slash, knowing that it has made the other team pay a price and potentially think twice going in to the corner the next time.

A good coach is going to take the good with the bad on players. You live with killing the extra penalties if there is enough generated by that player to cover for it. It's like giveaways - they can be very costly, but if you take risks, then you're going to have a higher rate of giveaways. If a player is generating more great chances through taking those risks than they're giving up, then it's worthwhile. Same thing goes with aggression and the penalties that come with it. If you simply focus on the one act and see that as a mistake without considering the other side of that coin? Then you're probably not a good coach.


You don't like McLellan or anything he does, that is well documented. I don't think McLellan is the best coach ever, I think he is an adequate coach who has flaws. But I don't think for a second McLellan sat down Kassian and basically told him he's not allowed to do what had gotten him a career. I am sorry, I don't buy it one bit. I am sure the message to Kassian and every player on the team is its not good to take bad penalties and penalties in the offensive zone are never a good things. But that isn't a McLellan messages, every coach says that. I have heard coaches from all teams talking about it 100's of times. If Kassian took that message to mean he can't do anything, then that is on him. As I said, I understand McLellan isn't perfect and he definitely has faults but I refuse to believe he is so stupid he tells plays not to do what got them in the league and makes them effective.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721218 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Sun, 28 October 2018 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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If he plays like Kassian can when inspired to do so he is an asset to any team but he seems so disinterested this season and also most of last, like he's going through the motions for a paycheck. Better to get rid of him if that is going to continue but he would be a plus if playing up to his potential with the team trying to make the playoffs. Instead of sulking he should consider elevating his game and earn a spot higher up the roster.


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721231 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Sun, 28 October 2018 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 19:00

Elliot Friedman is saying that the Edmonton Oilers have given Zack Kassian permission to seek out a trade. Sounds like he is unhappy with the current situation.


Meh, I don't think they're going to get anything that motivates them to trade. Play better, and your value goes up. He's a 4th liner that might rotate up a line or two in situations. Textbook example of a guy who got a bit too comfortable with a 3 year deal.

Banged a goal against Chicago, hopefully continues to chip in.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721330 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I'll miss Kass. Every team needs a guy who can give the opposing team's bench the ol' "penitentiary stare".


Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721356 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Great to see Kass playing better after he didn’t ask for a trade. Also shows the heart of the guy with him addressing the room on the matter and telling them he wants to be there.


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721420 is a reply to message #721356 ]
Wed, 31 October 2018 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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OilMJMOil wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 20:29

Great to see Kass playing better after he didn’t ask for a trade. Also shows the heart of the guy with him addressing the room on the matter and telling them he wants to be there.


Agree.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721421 is a reply to message #721356 ]
Wed, 31 October 2018 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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OilMJMOil wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 21:29

Great to see Kass playing better after he didn’t ask for a trade. Also shows the heart of the guy with him addressing the room on the matter and telling them he wants to be there.

I agree with you. The Oilers need him to be better and the only way he gets traded if the ever wanted too be traded is to play better. I still think that as much as I like Kassian when he is good, the Oilers need to trade him to get rid of his salary. They aren't in a position to be paying a 4th line that kind of money.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721914 is a reply to message #721164 ]
Thu, 08 November 2018 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Thinking about this - doesn't it seem weird that the agent would have to ask the GM what's up regarding the healthy scratches? Is the coach again not giving any feedback to the players as he makes his decisions?


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721917 is a reply to message #721914 ]
Thu, 08 November 2018 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 08 November 2018 12:10

Thinking about this - doesn't it seem weird that the agent would have to ask the GM what's up regarding the healthy scratches? Is the coach again not giving any feedback to the players as he makes his decisions?

If you have to ask the question...



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721977 is a reply to message #721914 ]
Fri, 09 November 2018 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 08 November 2018 12:10

Thinking about this - doesn't it seem weird that the agent would have to ask the GM what's up regarding the healthy scratches? Is the coach again not giving any feedback to the players as he makes his decisions?

I really doubt the coaching staff just writes the lines up on a white board and doesn't say a damn thing to anyone. The player said they had meetings but oh well, ignore that. But let's pretend they did scratch him with out saying a word, completely against what came out of the players mouth. If you are Kassian or any player, how clues/don't give a damn are you that you don't know why you are scratched? When you have a particular role that Kassian would have which is to be physical, get in peoples faces, stir the pot, maybe chip in the odd goal and kill penalties. And then you as a player aren't being physical or engaged in the game, you aren't stirring the pot, you have zeros offensively, you are poor in your own zone, not doing very well on the PK and you aren't even skating, how is it a mystery you are scratched? They watch video every freaking day, you can see it. He can go look at his stats and see it.

You are Zach Kassian, you are a 4th line player, you have a set role and your skill set is not to score points. If you aren't doing what I described, you are literally doing nothing for your team.

[Updated on: Fri, 09 November 2018 08:38]


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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721979 is a reply to message #721977 ]
Fri, 09 November 2018 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 09 November 2018 08:36

Adam wrote on Thu, 08 November 2018 12:10

Thinking about this - doesn't it seem weird that the agent would have to ask the GM what's up regarding the healthy scratches? Is the coach again not giving any feedback to the players as he makes his decisions?

I really doubt the coaching staff just writes the lines up on a white board and doesn't say a damn thing to anyone. The player said they had meetings but oh well, ignore that. But let's pretend they did scratch him with out saying a word, completely against what came out of the players mouth. If you are Kassian or any player, how clues/don't give a damn are you that you don't know why you are scratched? When you have a particular role that Kassian would have which is to be physical, get in peoples faces, stir the pot, maybe chip in the odd goal and kill penalties. And then you as a player aren't being physical or engaged in the game, you aren't stirring the pot, you have zeros offensively, you are poor in your own zone, not doing very well on the PK and you aren't even skating, how is it a mystery you are scratched? They watch video every freaking day, you can see it. He can go look at his stats and see it.

You are Zach Kassian, you are a 4th line player, you have a set role and your skill set is not to score points. If you aren't doing what I described, you are literally doing nothing for your team.


Well, TMac says go be physical. Kassian does. Takes a penalty. Is told to sit. Goes out and is less physical so as to not take penalty. Gets scratched without being told why. Kassian hurts himself in his confusion. Other team throws Pokéball and captures a Kassian.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721982 is a reply to message #721979 ]
Fri, 09 November 2018 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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ziltoid wrote on Fri, 09 November 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 09 November 2018 08:36

Adam wrote on Thu, 08 November 2018 12:10

Thinking about this - doesn't it seem weird that the agent would have to ask the GM what's up regarding the healthy scratches? Is the coach again not giving any feedback to the players as he makes his decisions?

I really doubt the coaching staff just writes the lines up on a white board and doesn't say a damn thing to anyone. The player said they had meetings but oh well, ignore that. But let's pretend they did scratch him with out saying a word, completely against what came out of the players mouth. If you are Kassian or any player, how clues/don't give a damn are you that you don't know why you are scratched? When you have a particular role that Kassian would have which is to be physical, get in peoples faces, stir the pot, maybe chip in the odd goal and kill penalties. And then you as a player aren't being physical or engaged in the game, you aren't stirring the pot, you have zeros offensively, you are poor in your own zone, not doing very well on the PK and you aren't even skating, how is it a mystery you are scratched? They watch video every freaking day, you can see it. He can go look at his stats and see it.

You are Zach Kassian, you are a 4th line player, you have a set role and your skill set is not to score points. If you aren't doing what I described, you are literally doing nothing for your team.


Well, TMac says go be physical. Kassian does. Takes a penalty. Is told to sit. Goes out and is less physical so as to not take penalty. Gets scratched without being told why. Kassian hurts himself in his confusion. Other team throws Pokéball and captures a Kassian.

As I said in my previous post, the player when he was interviewed SAID they had meetings with the coach. I wouldn't think he would do this but I suppose the player could just be lying to everyone's face. Regardless, he's a 4th line player. He doesn't score. He's supposed to hit guys, not be a disaster defensively when he is out on the ice, forecheck, skate hard and kill some penalties. So even if McLellan said "don't take a penalty" so Kassian took that as meaning don't touch anyone or stir the pot. It doesn't change the fact that he wasn't skating, he wasn't forechecking, he was a disaster defensively and was lousy on the PK. He's got 1 goal in 13 games. He's a -4, he's negative in the give away/take away department, he's not a center. So for the majority of the 13 games he was played, what exactly was Kassian doing well that made his sitting an injustice? I actually like Kassian and think he can be an effective player and we saw how effective of a player he can be playing under the SAME COACH. But he was lousy all last year and has been mostly lousy all this season.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721983 is a reply to message #721979 ]
Fri, 09 November 2018 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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ziltoid wrote on Fri, 09 November 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 09 November 2018 08:36

Adam wrote on Thu, 08 November 2018 12:10

Thinking about this - doesn't it seem weird that the agent would have to ask the GM what's up regarding the healthy scratches? Is the coach again not giving any feedback to the players as he makes his decisions?

I really doubt the coaching staff just writes the lines up on a white board and doesn't say a damn thing to anyone. The player said they had meetings but oh well, ignore that. But let's pretend they did scratch him with out saying a word, completely against what came out of the players mouth. If you are Kassian or any player, how clues/don't give a damn are you that you don't know why you are scratched? When you have a particular role that Kassian would have which is to be physical, get in peoples faces, stir the pot, maybe chip in the odd goal and kill penalties. And then you as a player aren't being physical or engaged in the game, you aren't stirring the pot, you have zeros offensively, you are poor in your own zone, not doing very well on the PK and you aren't even skating, how is it a mystery you are scratched? They watch video every freaking day, you can see it. He can go look at his stats and see it.

You are Zach Kassian, you are a 4th line player, you have a set role and your skill set is not to score points. If you aren't doing what I described, you are literally doing nothing for your team.


Well, TMac says go be physical. Kassian does. Takes a penalty. Is told to sit. Goes out and is less physical so as to not take penalty. Gets scratched without being told why. Kassian hurts himself in his confusion. Other team throws Pokéball and captures a Kassian.


Yeah, I don't think there's productive communication happening. McLellan's expectation of bottom six players is mistake free hockey. No penalties, no risks. Oh, and he's disappointed if production also falls.

And we have now had more than one player say that there has been little to no communication from McLellan on coaching decisions.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #721991 is a reply to message #721983 ]
Fri, 09 November 2018 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 09 November 2018 09:50

ziltoid wrote on Fri, 09 November 2018 09:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 09 November 2018 08:36

Adam wrote on Thu, 08 November 2018 12:10

Thinking about this - doesn't it seem weird that the agent would have to ask the GM what's up regarding the healthy scratches? Is the coach again not giving any feedback to the players as he makes his decisions?

I really doubt the coaching staff just writes the lines up on a white board and doesn't say a damn thing to anyone. The player said they had meetings but oh well, ignore that. But let's pretend they did scratch him with out saying a word, completely against what came out of the players mouth. If you are Kassian or any player, how clues/don't give a damn are you that you don't know why you are scratched? When you have a particular role that Kassian would have which is to be physical, get in peoples faces, stir the pot, maybe chip in the odd goal and kill penalties. And then you as a player aren't being physical or engaged in the game, you aren't stirring the pot, you have zeros offensively, you are poor in your own zone, not doing very well on the PK and you aren't even skating, how is it a mystery you are scratched? They watch video every freaking day, you can see it. He can go look at his stats and see it.

You are Zach Kassian, you are a 4th line player, you have a set role and your skill set is not to score points. If you aren't doing what I described, you are literally doing nothing for your team.


Well, TMac says go be physical. Kassian does. Takes a penalty. Is told to sit. Goes out and is less physical so as to not take penalty. Gets scratched without being told why. Kassian hurts himself in his confusion. Other team throws Pokéball and captures a Kassian.


Yeah, I don't think there's productive communication happening. McLellan's expectation of bottom six players is mistake free hockey. No penalties, no risks. Oh, and he's disappointed if production also falls.

And we have now had more than one player say that there has been little to no communication from McLellan on coaching decisions.

Team needs to stop hiring coaches who have a God complex.

Apparently
TMac, Eakins, Quinn = good & given a long leash
Kruger, Nelson = bad & must be replaced asap

Kruger squeezed gold out of what he was given, and I suspect that's because he was the best communicator and most humble of the bunch.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #722219 is a reply to message #721991 ]
Tue, 13 November 2018 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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MacT was one of our better coaches, but beyond his best before.

Quinn wasn’t given a long leash, they got rid of him when convenient. Poor guy was just out of his element.

Renney probably should have got more patience, seemed like a decent guy n coach given a baaaaad roster.

Krueger and Nelson both deserved more.

Eakins should have been turfed ASAP.

McLellan got us to the playoffs but he’s used up all those brownie points and we need a change.



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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #724436 is a reply to message #722219 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan  is currently offline GabbyDugan
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....glad Kassian has stayed on with the Oilers....maybe Hitchcock is communicating to him what his role on the team is....I don't expect to see a whole lot of offense from Kassian and his linemates, but if they can contribute like they did this weekend under Hitchcock's strategies, fine by me...

...I may be stretching things, but I give Kassian most of the credit for neutralizing the effectiveness the Flames might have achieved by bringing in Peluso...Kassian was chirping and getting in Peluso's face even during the warmups, had 9 hits in the game, and was generally a menace to the Flames...Peluso only ended up with 2:28 of ice time, while Kassian was at 15:31...the Oilers needed grinders last night, and Kassian was grinding like I haven't seen an Oiler forward grind in a very long time...




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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #724438 is a reply to message #722219 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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nullterm wrote on Tue, 13 November 2018 19:56

MacT was one of our better coaches, but beyond his best before.



I still bristle at the suggestion was a good coach. Better than the rest, but that's measuring against low expectations.



This is fine.

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 Re: Zack Kassian allowed to look for a trade [message #724514 is a reply to message #724438 ]
Mon, 10 December 2018 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 10 December 2018 09:51

nullterm wrote on Tue, 13 November 2018 19:56

MacT was one of our better coaches, but beyond his best before.



I still bristle at the suggestion was a good coach. Better than the rest, but that's measuring against low expectations.


I think there's sufficient evidence to suggest he was a decent coach. They were always at least within field goal range of the playoffs, other than 2007, despite some rosters that were lacking in talent, and he outcoached Babcock and others in the 2006 playoffs. I don't think he's Scotty Bowman, but he wasn't bad at it.

Case in point - in his first season, he has 91-point Doug Weight leading the charge, and makes the playoffs with a 93 point season. He loses Weight in a brutally one-sided trade that summer, and still manages to have a 91 point season the following year (just missing the playoffs) despite the fact their best player is now 60-point Mike Comrie. He's back in the playoffs the next year with a 92 point season - led by 67-point Ryan Smyth.

Some of that is definitely Salo, who is underrated for just how good he was for the Oilers for a stretch there, but there's been a lot of rosters in the last several years much, much better than what MacT had to work with who didn't get nearly the same results.

For the record, if I was bringing back old coaches, Krueger, Renney and Nelson are all ahead of MacT on my list...



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