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 Oilers » Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance
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 Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819567]
Tue, 14 March 2023 22:51 Go to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 1023
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Is Connor McDavid the best athlete in the world right now?[ 23 vote(s) ]
1.Yes 20 / 87%
2.No 3 / 13%

At game 68, Connor McDavid has a cap era record with 129 points. He has 14 games to get to a coveted 150 points and 60 goals. He is well on pace to break both.

McDavid is 1st in goals at 56. 10 goals ahead of the ahead of Pastrnak in 2nd.

McDavid is 1st in points with 129. 29 points ahead of Draisaitl in 2nd. He is 33 points ahead of the next guy not on his team (Kucherov at 96).

McDavid is 1st in assists with 73. He is 4 assists ahead of Kucherov at 69. Karlsson is at 64. This is his tightest race.

If he leads the league in both goals and assist by the end, it would be a feat that hasn’t been accomplished since Lemieux in 1995-96. Only 4 players have accomplished it (Gretzky * 5, Howe * 2, Lemieux * 2, Esposito * 1). Notably, Lemieux tied his teammate Ron Francis in assists that year. The last to lead in both categories outright was Gretzky in 86-87.

Want more?

He is 1st in 5v5 goals with 29 (Hughes 26).

He trails Karlsson for 5v5 points (McDavid 51 to Karlsson 53).

He is 1st in PP points with 59. Draisaitl (50), Nuge (44), and Kucherov (41) are next.

He is even 5th in shorthanded points with 5. Pettersson leads with 9.


Is it fair to say that McDavid is the best athlete in the world right now? In the major sports, nobody dominates as consistently as he does. What about other sports? Serious question, who competes with his dominance right now?

His last Hart trophy in 2021, he was the unanimous MVP. It was the second time it has been done (Gretzky in 92). It’s a very rare feat in the big 4 sports as a whole. He may do it again…but you never know with sports writers.

He is poised to get his 5th Art Ross in 8 years, and 3rd in a row. That will tie him for 4th most times winning the trophy. He trails Howe (6), Lemieux (6), and Gretzky (10). Incredibly Crosby has only won the trophy twice.

The most stunning thing about all of this to me is how little world recognition he gets. Even in Canada, he is not a household name. I have had a lot of conversations with people who have no idea who he is. Then when I ask “Have you heard of Sidney Crosby”, they say yes and I say that he is like that. Maybe that is a symptom of not going to the Olympics.

Nonetheless, I think McDavid is the best athlete in the world right now, and has been for some time. It’s been tremendous to watch him.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 March 2023 01:45]


Clean house or bust

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819570 is a reply to message #819567 ]
Tue, 14 March 2023 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

In a team sport absolutely..
"athlete" is a broad category.. some decathlete might be argued to be best overall "athlete".. depending on criteria.. but team sport.. judging by how McD compares to his peers.. past and present.. his dominance..and the massive effect he has on game outcomes.. McDavid is the best IMHO.




McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819572 is a reply to message #819570 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 1023
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1 Cup

Most dominant is probably what I was getting at. The thing about a survey is there is always a better way to phrase the question.

Tom Brady of 3 years ago would be there. Not anymore obviously. Djokovic is maybe in the conversation? I don't follow tennis enough.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819574 is a reply to message #819572 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 03:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 986
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

No Cups

The fact he’s digging up numbers not seen for decades since the Lemieux era and the season isn’t even done yet… yes.

No one else in sports is doing that right now.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819577 is a reply to message #819567 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10434
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Pretty crazy

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?aggregate=0&reportType =season&seasonFrom=19961997&seasonTo=20222023&ga meType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals, assists&page=0&pageSize=50

Best points total for a season since he was born. And he's battling hard for playoffs still. Kuch's whole team was all in trying to help pump his stats for the last part of his season to get him his awards.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819578 is a reply to message #819577 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Registered: August 2005
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6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 March 2023 09:43

Pretty crazy

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?aggregate=0&reportType =season&seasonFrom=19961997&seasonTo=20222023&ga meType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals, assists&page=0&pageSize=50

Best points total for a season since he was born. And he's battling hard for playoffs still. Kuch's whole team was all in trying to help pump his stats for the last part of his season to get him his awards.


14 games to go. The non-99 or 66 best all-time years are:

Yzerman - 155
Esposito - 152
Nicholls - 150
Jagr - 149
Lafontaine -148
Bossy - 147
Esposito - 145
Oates - 142
Stastny - 139
Orr - 139
Coffey - 138
Yzerman - 137
Dionne - 137
Maruk - 136
Lafleur - 136
Kurri - 135
Dionne - 135
Orr - 135
Trottier - 134
Esposito - 133
Selanne - 132
Lafleur - 132
Turgeon - 132
Hull - 131
Kurri - 131
Nilsson - 131
Savard - 131
Dionne - 130
Esposito - 130
Hawerchuk - 130
McDavid - 129

I think he could challenge the top names on this list. If he can get 27 points then it's the highest scoring season ever for anyone not named Gretzky or Lemieux. That might be a stretch but I think he could get 150.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819654 is a reply to message #819578 ]
Fri, 17 March 2023 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Red Rage  is currently offline Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN

No Cups

Rest McDavid?[ 15 vote(s) ]
1.Yes, absolutely. The team comes first, and McDavid knows this. 2 / 13%
2.Ask McDavid, and respect his choice 10 / 67%
3.No, absolutely. He deserves every opportunity to achieve greatness. 3 / 20%

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 March 2023 10:38

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 March 2023 09:43

Pretty crazy

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?aggregate=0&reportType =season&seasonFrom=19961997&seasonTo=20222023&ga meType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals, assists&page=0&pageSize=50

Best points total for a season since he was born. And he's battling hard for playoffs still. Kuch's whole team was all in trying to help pump his stats for the last part of his season to get him his awards.


14 games to go. The non-99 or 66 best all-time years are:

Yzerman - 155
Esposito - 152
Nicholls - 150
Jagr - 149
Lafontaine -148

I think he could challenge the top names on this list. If he can get 27 points then it's the highest scoring season ever for anyone not named Gretzky or Lemieux. That might be a stretch but I think he could get 150.



Let's say there's two games left to go (@ Col and vs SJ) before the playoffs, and we are locked-in to face the LA Kings in the first round. McDavid sits at 63 goals and 153 pts, just shy of achieving two amazing modern-era feats. If you're Jay Woodcroft, do you rest McDavid??

[Updated on: Fri, 17 March 2023 13:28]


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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819658 is a reply to message #819654 ]
Fri, 17 March 2023 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4208
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Red Rage wrote on Fri, 17 March 2023 11:26

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 March 2023 10:38

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 March 2023 09:43

Pretty crazy

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?aggregate=0&reportType =season&seasonFrom=19961997&seasonTo=20222023&ga meType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals, assists&page=0&pageSize=50

Best points total for a season since he was born. And he's battling hard for playoffs still. Kuch's whole team was all in trying to help pump his stats for the last part of his season to get him his awards.


14 games to go. The non-99 or 66 best all-time years are:

Yzerman - 155
Esposito - 152
Nicholls - 150
Jagr - 149
Lafontaine -148

I think he could challenge the top names on this list. If he can get 27 points then it's the highest scoring season ever for anyone not named Gretzky or Lemieux. That might be a stretch but I think he could get 150.



Let's say there's two games left to go (@ Col and vs SJ) before the playoffs, and we are locked-in to face the LA Kings in the first round. McDavid sits at 63 goals and 153 pts, just shy of achieving two amazing modern-era feats. If you're Jay Woodcroft, do you rest McDavid??



McDavid is a freak.. best conditioning of anyone.. I say he keeps hummin' along at record pace.. carry the momentum into the playoffs at full throttle.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819659 is a reply to message #819658 ]
Fri, 17 March 2023 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Red Rage  is currently offline Red Rage
Messages: 66
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Location: ETOWN

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 17 March 2023 14:36



McDavid is a freak.. best conditioning of anyone.. I say he keeps hummin' along at record pace.. carry the momentum into the playoffs at full throttle.




Yes, I agree, and ultimately, if I'm Jay Woodcroft, I am deferring to Connor to make that call; however, I do recall how a certain player obtained the name "Kneeordano", and that disturbs me.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819660 is a reply to message #819659 ]
Fri, 17 March 2023 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 739
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No Cups

You can dress McDavid, and NOT play him 25 minutes...


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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819661 is a reply to message #819660 ]
Fri, 17 March 2023 17:21 Go to previous message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4208
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 17 March 2023 14:14

You can dress McDavid, and NOT play him 25 minutes...


True.. He'd probably be OK with only 20 minutes.. :)



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819579 is a reply to message #819567 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
benv  is currently offline benv
Messages: 573
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Back in 2017, the Hockey News published the list of top 50 players all time for each team (determined by a series of experts). McDavid had only two years under his belt at the time and finished 19th on the Oilers' list; Draisaitl didn't make the top 50. Top 10 were:

1. Gretzky
2. Messier
3. Kurri
4. Coffey
5. Fuhr
6. Anderson
7. Lowe
8. Smyth
9. Tikkanen
10. Weight

So how high would McDavid and Draisaitl be on the list today? I think I would put McDavid easily at no. 3, maybe no. 2. Messier's leadership, longevity and cup wins maybe still has him ahead of Connor, but I think a few more years of excellence could vault McDavid over Messier.

Placing Draisaitl is tougher. I think I would put him at 6, with the ability to climb the list if he stays with team and keeps racking up 100 point seasons.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819580 is a reply to message #819579 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I don't know if he gets past what Yzerman scored. 26 pts in 14 games is a lot. He could easily do it as I never bet against McD. I think his first priority is to of course win as many games as the team can but I think he deep down wants to completely blow past Matthews 60 goals. Matthews got the MVP in my opinion because he got 60 goals and I think McD took that personally.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 March 2023 11:42]


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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819581 is a reply to message #819579 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7041
Registered: August 2005
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6 Cups

benv wrote on Wed, 15 March 2023 11:31

Back in 2017, the Hockey News published the list of top 50 players all time for each team (determined by a series of experts). McDavid had only two years under his belt at the time and finished 19th on the Oilers' list; Draisaitl didn't make the top 50. Top 10 were:

1. Gretzky
2. Messier
3. Kurri
4. Coffey
5. Fuhr
6. Anderson
7. Lowe
8. Smyth
9. Tikkanen
10. Weight

So how high would McDavid and Draisaitl be on the list today? I think I would put McDavid easily at no. 3, maybe no. 2. Messier's leadership, longevity and cup wins maybe still has him ahead of Connor, but I think a few more years of excellence could vault McDavid over Messier.

Placing Draisaitl is tougher. I think I would put him at 6, with the ability to climb the list if he stays with team and keeps racking up 100 point seasons.


It's scary how good Draisaitl is too. His goals last night give him his fourth 100 point season, which ties him with Ovechkin as 3rd among active players. Crosby and McDavid are the only players to have more and play after the turn of the century.

Kurri Messier and Coffey all have more of them still - 6, 6, and 5 respectively, but playing in a different era. The lack of championships is the only thing holding back McDavid and Draisaitl. Certainly 80s Sather was worlds better than Chiarelli and Holland which makes a big difference.

I think your rankings are pretty good - I'd definitely put them all past Fuhr & Anderson now. I just really really hope we can overcome the management issues and win something while they're still here. It will be a huge disappointment to not really contend with them in their prime here.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819582 is a reply to message #819579 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 1023
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

McDavid is already 2 in my opinion.

Messier never won an Art Ross, despite holding down 2nd all time points for a long time. McDavid will eclipse Messier’s best single season once he scores another point. They both are tied in Hart trophies (2) until McDavid no doubt adds another this year.

Let’s get the man a cup.

I’d probably put Draisaitl ahead of Fuhr and Anderson.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819585 is a reply to message #819582 ]
Wed, 15 March 2023 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tardigrade81  is currently offline tardigrade81
Messages: 2164
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Yes. End of story


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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819597 is a reply to message #819579 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
benv  is currently offline benv
Messages: 573
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

benv wrote on Wed, 15 March 2023 11:31

Back in 2017, the Hockey News published the list of top 50 players all time for each team (determined by a series of experts). McDavid had only two years under his belt at the time and finished 19th on the Oilers' list; Draisaitl didn't make the top 50. Top 10 were:

1. Gretzky
2. Messier
3. Kurri
4. Coffey
5. Fuhr
6. Anderson
7. Lowe
8. Smyth
9. Tikkanen
10. Weight

So how high would McDavid and Draisaitl be on the list today? I think I would put McDavid easily at no. 3, maybe no. 2. Messier's leadership, longevity and cup wins maybe still has him ahead of Connor, but I think a few more years of excellence could vault McDavid over Messier.

Placing Draisaitl is tougher. I think I would put him at 6, with the ability to climb the list if he stays with team and keeps racking up 100 point seasons.


Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I was just looking at the entire list from the 2017 Hockey News:

1. Gretzky
2. Messier
3. Kurri
4. Coffey
5. Fuhr
6. Anderson
7. Lowe
8. Smyth
9. Tikkanen
10. Weight
11. Huddy
12. Ranford
13. Simpson
14. Hall
15. Moog
16. MacTavish
17. S Smith
18. Hemsky
19. McDavid
20. Gregg
21. Fogolin
22. J Smith
23. Horcoff
24. Eberle
25. Salo
26.Hunter
27. Marchant
28. Roloson
29. Nugent-Hopkins
30. Buchberger
31. Muni
32. Krushelnyski
33. Arnott
34. Cu Joseph
35. Richardson
36. Semenko
37. McClelland
38. Moreau
39. Niinimaa
40. Lumley
41. Mironov
42. Klima
43. Linseman
44. Gagner
45. Staios
46. Grier
47. Laraque
48. Pronger
49. Brewer
50. Dubnyk

...and wondering who from the last 6 years would move up or be added to the list. We've already talked about how McDavid would move up to #2 or 3 depending on your perspective while Draisaitl would go from off the list right to somewhere from #5-7. The other obvious one would be moving Nugent-Hopkins up from #29. If they had Hall at #14 in 2017, RNH would have to be higher now. He's currently 7th all time in games played and (if healthy) will be 5th all time by the end of the season. His breakout season this year has moved him past Weight and up to 8th all time in Oiler scoring (behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and the big 5 from the cup years). I think he may be around #10 now (and still moving up).

Outside of that who else could be added? Nurse probably merits an appearance somewhere in the bottom half. Anyone else? I don't think any of our goalies these last 6 years should be there (maybe you could make a case for Smith or Talbot, but I don't think I would). Klefbom perhaps? Larsson?

It makes me realize that the moderate success the Oilers have had over the last few years has really been McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse and a rotating cast.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819598 is a reply to message #819597 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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No Cups

I'm kind of surprised Hemsky and Salo aren't higher.


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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819599 is a reply to message #819597 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

benv wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:05



...and wondering who from the last 6 years would move up or be added to the list. We've already talked about how McDavid would move up to #2 or 3 depending on your perspective while Draisaitl would go from off the list right to somewhere from #5-7. The other obvious one would be moving Nugent-Hopkins up from #29. If they had Hall at #14 in 2017, RNH would have to be higher now. He's currently 7th all time in games played and (if healthy) will be 5th all time by the end of the season. His breakout season this year has moved him past Weight and up to 8th all time in Oiler scoring (behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and the big 5 from the cup years). I think he may be around #10 now (and still moving up).

Outside of that who else could be added? Nurse probably merits an appearance somewhere in the bottom half. Anyone else? I don't think any of our goalies these last 6 years should be there (maybe you could make a case for Smith or Talbot, but I don't think I would). Klefbom perhaps? Larsson?

It makes me realize that the moderate success the Oilers have had over the last few years has really been McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse and a rotating cast.

Yeah, Nurse needs to get added to the list and I think Hymen does too. RNH is definitely top 11 for me, maybe as high as 8th. That's probably about it for me. I'd sign off on Larsson or Klefbom, but wouldn't fight for them. Yammo might be next on the list if he sticks around.

The amount of turnover during the McDavid era has been incredible.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/61/edmonton-oilers/stats /all-time?sort=-first-season



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819600 is a reply to message #819599 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
benv  is currently offline benv
Messages: 573
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No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:22

benv wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:05



...and wondering who from the last 6 years would move up or be added to the list. We've already talked about how McDavid would move up to #2 or 3 depending on your perspective while Draisaitl would go from off the list right to somewhere from #5-7. The other obvious one would be moving Nugent-Hopkins up from #29. If they had Hall at #14 in 2017, RNH would have to be higher now. He's currently 7th all time in games played and (if healthy) will be 5th all time by the end of the season. His breakout season this year has moved him past Weight and up to 8th all time in Oiler scoring (behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and the big 5 from the cup years). I think he may be around #10 now (and still moving up).

Outside of that who else could be added? Nurse probably merits an appearance somewhere in the bottom half. Anyone else? I don't think any of our goalies these last 6 years should be there (maybe you could make a case for Smith or Talbot, but I don't think I would). Klefbom perhaps? Larsson?

It makes me realize that the moderate success the Oilers have had over the last few years has really been McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse and a rotating cast.

Yeah, Nurse needs to get added to the list and I think Hymen does too. RNH is definitely top 11 for me, maybe as high as 8th. That's probably about it for me. I'd sign off on Larsson or Klefbom, but wouldn't fight for them. Yammo might be next on the list if he sticks around.

The amount of turnover during the McDavid era has been incredible.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/61/edmonton-oilers/stats /all-time?sort=-first-season



Getting back on track to the greatness of McDavid--what would he need to do to supplant Gretzky for number one on the list? Is it even possible?

I would say: "yes". If McDavid retires in 2035 after a 20 year career, all with the Oilers, and there's a couple of Stanley Cups in there I would be willing to give him the title (assuming the excellence continues with just a slight drop off as he gets into his late 30s). He may never be a better PLAYER than Gretzky (he'll never have the 200 point seasons) but I would be willing to proclaim him a better OILER at that point.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819601 is a reply to message #819600 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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6 Cups

benv wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:52

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:22

benv wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:05



...and wondering who from the last 6 years would move up or be added to the list. We've already talked about how McDavid would move up to #2 or 3 depending on your perspective while Draisaitl would go from off the list right to somewhere from #5-7. The other obvious one would be moving Nugent-Hopkins up from #29. If they had Hall at #14 in 2017, RNH would have to be higher now. He's currently 7th all time in games played and (if healthy) will be 5th all time by the end of the season. His breakout season this year has moved him past Weight and up to 8th all time in Oiler scoring (behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and the big 5 from the cup years). I think he may be around #10 now (and still moving up).

Outside of that who else could be added? Nurse probably merits an appearance somewhere in the bottom half. Anyone else? I don't think any of our goalies these last 6 years should be there (maybe you could make a case for Smith or Talbot, but I don't think I would). Klefbom perhaps? Larsson?

It makes me realize that the moderate success the Oilers have had over the last few years has really been McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse and a rotating cast.

Yeah, Nurse needs to get added to the list and I think Hymen does too. RNH is definitely top 11 for me, maybe as high as 8th. That's probably about it for me. I'd sign off on Larsson or Klefbom, but wouldn't fight for them. Yammo might be next on the list if he sticks around.

The amount of turnover during the McDavid era has been incredible.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/61/edmonton-oilers/stats /all-time?sort=-first-season



Getting back on track to the greatness of McDavid--what would he need to do to supplant Gretzky for number one on the list? Is it even possible?

I would say: "yes". If McDavid retires in 2035 after a 20 year career, all with the Oilers, and there's a couple of Stanley Cups in there I would be willing to give him the title (assuming the excellence continues with just a slight drop off as he gets into his late 30s). He may never be a better PLAYER than Gretzky (he'll never have the 200 point seasons) but I would be willing to proclaim him a better OILER at that point.


It's hard for me to demote the all time great to second place but that sounds about right. 2 Stanley cups, 15 years of McDavid level play, and a non-acrimonious exit might do it for me. I might put them as 1a and 1b under such a scenario. Gretzky would be the guy who built the franchise and McDavid would be the guy who saved it.

Of course I saw Gretzky play as an Oiler. Anyone who is under 32 now never saw peak cup winning Gretz.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819603 is a reply to message #819601 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I'm older than that, but even then, I don't remember Gretz at all.


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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819605 is a reply to message #819603 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 16:01

I'm older than that, but even then, I don't remember Gretz at all.

Oh no. I'm older than I thought.

Gretzky's last Cup was 1988 ... 35 years ago. You'd have to be 40 to have a hope of remembering.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819602 is a reply to message #819600 ]
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Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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He would have to surpass Gretz in either points or cup rings.
Even JUST Oilers points, Gretz had 1669 meaning McDavid would have to pass Joe Sakic for 9th alltime at 1641.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819604 is a reply to message #819602 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 16:00

He would have to surpass Gretz in either points or cup rings.
Even JUST Oilers points, Gretz had 1669 meaning McDavid would have to pass Joe Sakic for 9th alltime at 1641.

I don't think McDavid would have to match Gretzky's point totals. The 80s were a far easier period for scoring. It would be a fun raw number / analytics / eye test debate arguing if the 215 in 1986 is more impressive than 158 in 2023.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819606 is a reply to message #819604 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:11

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 16:00

He would have to surpass Gretz in either points or cup rings.
Even JUST Oilers points, Gretz had 1669 meaning McDavid would have to pass Joe Sakic for 9th alltime at 1641.

I don't think McDavid would have to match Gretzky's point totals. The 80s were a far easier period for scoring. It would be a fun raw number / analytics / eye test debate arguing if the 215 in 1986 is more impressive than 158 in 2023.


I know that there are guys out there that have built more robust era adjustment models, but a simple comparison is that McDavid is currently 29% better in terms of points than the 2nd highest player (who also benefits from playing on a PP with McDavid).

Gretzky in 1986 had 52% more points than 2nd place (Mario).

McDavid is undoubtedly the best skater I've ever seen and has an ability to do things at top speed that no other player, probably ever, can do. But I think Gretzky's ability to put up points remains in a stratosphere of it's own, regardless of era.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819607 is a reply to message #819606 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Goose wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 16:38

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:11

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 16:00

He would have to surpass Gretz in either points or cup rings.
Even JUST Oilers points, Gretz had 1669 meaning McDavid would have to pass Joe Sakic for 9th alltime at 1641.

I don't think McDavid would have to match Gretzky's point totals. The 80s were a far easier period for scoring. It would be a fun raw number / analytics / eye test debate arguing if the 215 in 1986 is more impressive than 158 in 2023.


I know that there are guys out there that have built more robust era adjustment models, but a simple comparison is that McDavid is currently 29% better in terms of points than the 2nd highest player (who also benefits from playing on a PP with McDavid).

Gretzky in 1986 had 52% more points than 2nd place (Mario).

McDavid is undoubtedly the best skater I've ever seen and has an ability to do things at top speed that no other player, probably ever, can do. But I think Gretzky's ability to put up points remains in a stratosphere of it's own, regardless of era.


It's even more tilted if you look as a comparison versus #3 overall (which is relevant since Mario was a generational talent in his own right). Gretzky was so much better than anyone who played at the same time as him that he truly should be in the conversation for best player in team sports of all-time.

I agree with the 1A/1B thing if McDavid stays and wins some Cups...even if not as many Cups or points. In his favour, the league is harder to score in now, and there's also 11 more teams than in 1988 - that means it's much harder to make the playoffs and win too. He's also had to deal with much worse management, which really isn't his fault.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819647 is a reply to message #819607 ]
Fri, 17 March 2023 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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No Cups

THat's why I say either point totals OR cups.
If, god forbid, we never win a cup, or McDavid ends up far below Gretz, then I don't think there's a conversation still. Gretz would still be #1.
#2 is no small thing considering the guy McDavid would be knocking off.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819608 is a reply to message #819599 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:22


I think Hyman does too.


I'm not sure I see this yet. Eventually? Yeah - I could see him bumping guys like Brewer out of the list, but for now, he's only a year and a half in, so hard to rate his impact that high. He's maybe slightly above Jimmy Carson levels now...which I say half in jest, but Carson was a 100-point player in his first year here, so it's not far off. He also was incredibly important in the 1990 Cup win for the haul he helped us to get from Detroit!



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819611 is a reply to message #819608 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 16:57

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 15:22


I think Hyman does too.


I'm not sure I see this yet. Eventually? Yeah - I could see him bumping guys like Brewer out of the list, but for now, he's only a year and a half in, so hard to rate his impact that high. He's maybe slightly above Jimmy Carson levels now...which I say half in jest, but Carson was a 100-point player in his first year here, so it's not far off. He also was incredibly important in the 1990 Cup win for the haul he helped us to get from Detroit!

Maybe a little early but I’d have him on the top 50 over dubnyk, Richardson, or mironov now. I’d also leave pronger at number 50 forever.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819639 is a reply to message #819611 ]
Fri, 17 March 2023 06:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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With 3 goals and 7 point in his last 3GP, he's now on pace for just under 68 goals (67.73), around 88 assists (87.94) and just shy of 156 points (155.68).

I would love to see him get to something like 70G, 90A, 160P. That would require 13 goals and 16 assists in his last 13 games. Certainly a bit of a stretch, but one or 2 4-5 point games in there would certainly put him in striking distance.

On the one hand I don't want to see him gassed come playoff time, but on the other, I LOVE seeing those big numbers



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819644 is a reply to message #819639 ]
Fri, 17 March 2023 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Mike wrote on Fri, 17 March 2023 06:01

With 3 goals and 7 point in his last 3GP, he's now on pace for just under 68 goals (67.73), around 88 assists (87.94) and just shy of 156 points (155.68).

I would love to see him get to something like 70G, 90A, 160P. That would require 13 goals and 16 assists in his last 13 games. Certainly a bit of a stretch, but one or 2 4-5 point games in there would certainly put him in striking distance.

On the one hand I don't want to see him gassed come playoff time, but on the other, I LOVE seeing those big numbers



Given what they did last year, it wouldn't shock me to see the Oilers rest McDavid and Draisaitl for the last game or two of the season, so hopefully they can blow out a couple teams here. I'd love to see Draisaitl hit 50 goals again too - he's currently sitting on 44.



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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819588 is a reply to message #819567 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
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As a Chiefs fan, I'd say Mahomes is up there, but he's also in a well-run organization which is hand-in-glove built for him. McDavid is doing it in a dysfunctional organization, so doing what he's doing while the team around him are essentially the Browns/Jets makes me respect 97 even more.


97.

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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819594 is a reply to message #819588 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Suomalainen wrote on Thu, 16 March 2023 07:20

As a Chiefs fan, I'd say Mahomes is up there, but he's also in a well-run organization which is hand-in-glove built for him. McDavid is doing it in a dysfunctional organization, so doing what he's doing while the team around him are essentially the Browns/Jets makes me respect 97 even more.


Good point.. McDavid supporting cast has not been very good except for LD, a poor defense has taken away from his maximum potential in game dominance.. plus if he had top level finishers on all the gifts he's put on forwards sticks over the years.. he'd have another 200 points easy by now..

Gretzky had Kurri full time on his wing putting everything in the net 99 put on his stick (plus Kurri was excellent 2-way).. and he had a defense that could retrieve pucks, feed him the puck up the ice consistently.. 97 hasn't had the benefit of that at all.

In addition, 99 had a very dangerous 2nd line with Messier and Anderson other teams had to focus on as well.. 97 less so.

Still waiting for McDavid to get some snipe wingers with speed (when LD doesn't play on his wing).. he'd be even scarier

[Updated on: Thu, 16 March 2023 14:42]


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 Re: Connor McDavid’s Sporting Dominance [message #819595 is a reply to message #819588 ]
Thu, 16 March 2023 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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The only guy that immediately came to mind as a comparison for me what McDavid can do is Shohei Ohtani.


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