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 Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795492]
Sun, 05 December 2021 20:30 Go to next message
OilFans  is currently offline OilFans
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Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

3 Cups

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795496 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently online Mike
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That was fun.

We need the rest of our D back, but more importantly, as has been said a million times, they need to find a way to start when the first puck drops. In the first period. It’s a problem that’s plagued this team for years and I just don’t understand what needs to happen to get them to put in a 60 minutes effort.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795497 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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3 Cups

Russell is awful. Credit where it is due, he had an average game and a half. That is the best he has been in years. Average is the BEST we can hope for from that guy.
Niemelainen brings all of the good that Russell is supposed to bring and 10% of the bad. I dont care if he blocks a lot of shots, he is god awful at keeping the puck out of the Oilers net.

Bad Kost-a-win is back. I can;t believe any hopes this team has in net rest on Smith making it to the end of the year and Skinner being a consistent young goalie because it sure as heck isnt going to be a success with Mikko in net. Does anyone here have the balls to bet on Koskinen being good over a full 7 game series?

I am ranting but this game is the exact fear I had fore this team. Complacency, no 60 min effort, bad goaltending and massive holes on D.

The Oilers will not get past the 2nd round any year that Mikko and Russel are playing consistent time.



Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795499 is a reply to message #795497 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently online Mike
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4 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Sun, 05 December 2021 23:37

Russell is awful. Credit where it is due, he had an average game and a half. That is the best he has been in years. Average is the BEST we can hope for from that guy.


Agree with everything you said. We need a goalie. But especially this - with Russell. Because it can be dealt with quite easily. Like you say, he had some
Of his best games of the last couple of years, and those were average at best. We have, IMO, much better solutions in house with Broberg and Niemelainen. Once Keith and Ceci are back, there should not be any reason for Russell to play again.

Seems like a good guy and all. And this is not an attack on his character, but he is costing this team.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795498 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster  is currently offline HamBlaster
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1 Cup

What a beatdown. End of story.

Looked like an NHL team against an ECHL team (after a bender night) out there.

No excuse... they just chose to play like garbage tonight.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 December 2021 20:40]


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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795500 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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6 Cups

Stink fest.
Niemelenan looked good <edit.. OK>. They should waive Barrie, Bouchard, Russell, Broberg send them down on rotation to Bako, maybe D. Manson can teach them to make some hits and play proper Defense.
Barrie atrocious.
Russell Bad. Walked like a dog with a bladder condition.
Kassian on crack. Brought absolutely nothing.
Yamo the physical presence of an inert gas.
Puljujarvi no finish, bare wood.

Other than Captain Nemo (and McDavid's) I can't recall any hits or finished checks. If the official game stats show any hits other than Nemo's & McD's, they will be of the marshmallow variety.

Two poor games in a row.
Its not an anomaly, its the beginning of a trend.


[Updated on: Sun, 05 December 2021 20:49]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795501 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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6 Cups

Being a contender takes a mindset that this group of players seemingly don’t have.


Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795504 is a reply to message #795501 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 21:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

On the one hand, it's a terrible weekend and the team played poorly and gave up two games to much inferior teams.

On the other hand, it's just two games, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it or start pushing to see everyone sent to Bakersfield just yet.

Some quick thoughts:

- obviously, the Oilers need to find ways to start games better. It's not just the other team scoring first a lot, it's getting badly outshot and outplayed in the first period of games. They have to find a way to be better.

- Some baffling choices on who to punish tonight by Tippett. Russell gets walked on the first goal, generally isn't great. He still gets 4 minutes more than his defence partner Broberg (who didn't get walked). Ryan's string of minuses got even worse as he was on for both the first two Kings goals. He's still up 3 minutes on Tyler Benson who was even. If you're a youngster, you can't even miss a check or you're sitting. If you're in your 30s? Doesn't matter how many times you screw up, you'll still get your ice time. That kind of inconsistency isn't the hallmark of a great coach.

- That penalty was a penalty, but a pretty iffy minor. There's no shortage of hits from behind like that in every game, and they usually don't get called at all. Only reason this one did is because Kempe's head rattled off the glass. It wasn't nearly as vicious as the cross-check from Larsson on Draisaitl's jaw Friday night that went uncalled.

- The call clearly took the wind out of the sails for the Oilers. They folded the tent the second 97 left down the tunnel.

- The other ridiculous thing with the refs this year is these behind the play "battles" where a guy just hangs on to a star player and fights with him and the refs just watch it and occasionally encourage them to stop and play nice. There were two of those with Draisaitl and Edler tonight. There was at least one similar one against the Kraken on Friday. And if you're watching clips, there's a ridiculous one against Matthews tonight in the Jets/Leafs game.

Anyhow, they better play better on Tuesday.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795505 is a reply to message #795504 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Adam wrote on Sun, 05 December 2021 20:19

On the one hand, it's a terrible weekend and the team played poorly and gave up two games to much inferior teams.

On the other hand, it's just two games, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it or start pushing to see everyone sent to Bakersfield just yet.

Some quick thoughts:

- obviously, the Oilers need to find ways to start games better. It's not just the other team scoring first a lot, it's getting badly outshot and outplayed in the first period of games. They have to find a way to be better.

- Some baffling choices on who to punish tonight by Tippett. Russell gets walked on the first goal, generally isn't great. He still gets 4 minutes more than his defence partner Broberg (who didn't get walked). Ryan's string of minuses got even worse as he was on for both the first two Kings goals. He's still up 3 minutes on Tyler Benson who was even. If you're a youngster, you can't even miss a check or you're sitting. If you're in your 30s? Doesn't matter how many times you screw up, you'll still get your ice time. That kind of inconsistency isn't the hallmark of a great coach.

- That penalty was a penalty, but a pretty iffy minor. There's no shortage of hits from behind like that in every game, and they usually don't get called at all. Only reason this one did is because Kempe's head rattled off the glass. It wasn't nearly as vicious as the cross-check from Larsson on Draisaitl's jaw Friday night that went uncalled.

- The call clearly took the wind out of the sails for the Oilers. They folded the tent the second 97 left down the tunnel.

- The other ridiculous thing with the refs this year is these behind the play "battles" where a guy just hangs on to a star player and fights with him and the refs just watch it and occasionally encourage them to stop and play nice. There were two of those with Draisaitl and Edler tonight. There was at least one similar one against the Kraken on Friday. And if you're watching clips, there's a ridiculous one against Matthews tonight in the Jets/Leafs game.

Anyhow, they better play better on Tuesday.


My main point with the suggestion for a rotation down in Bako is that its seems that the D call ups are playing better positional hockey than most of the D on the roster (Barrie especially), seem to be better positionally prepared, I credit Manson for that. Whatever they get taught down there isn't being practiced up here. Some need a refresher course on how to play D.

Ryan is a mess, another -2 to subtract from his season GA. But if Benson, Perlini, Turris were any better, I'm sure they would be out there, but they can't play center (other than Turris- badly), and none can PK. Maybe Ryan still has concussion symptoms, he doesn't seem all there.

Still too many weak and meek players on the roster that McD + LD's efforts can't totally overcome.. every game.

As soon as Shore is back at least that gets Ryan off the ice.. small positive.

Too bad Holloway was injured, he'd have a clear path to see what he can do on the top 6 as a winger, or as the #3 C, plus PK.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 December 2021 22:38]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795509 is a reply to message #795505 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 05 December 2021 21:45


My main point with the suggestion for a rotation down in Bako is that its seems that the D call ups are playing better positional hockey than most of the D on the roster (Barrie especially), seem to be better positionally prepared, I credit Manson for that. Whatever they get taught down there isn't being practiced up here. Some need a refresher course on how to play D.

Ryan is a mess, another -2 to subtract from his season GA. But if Benson, Perlini, Turris were any better, I'm sure they would be out there, but they can't play center (other than Turris- badly), and none can PK. Maybe Ryan still has concussion symptoms, he doesn't seem all there.

Still too many weak and meek players on the roster that McD + LD's efforts can't totally overcome.. every game.

As soon as Shore is back at least that gets Ryan off the ice.. small positive.

Too bad Holloway was injured, he'd have a clear path to see what he can do on the top 6 as a winger, or as the #3 C, plus PK.



I'm totally onboard with flipping Manson up to Edmonton and sending Playfair to Bakersfield or anywhere else. I'd be happy to see Tippett replaced too (although I'd like to have the team do an actual search for a coach as opposed to just bringing up the farm team guy if they were to pull the trigger on that).

I agree that the farm hands have looked decent, which is one more reason it's ridiculous that Tippett tried to play Russell/Barrie for Pronger/Niedermayer minutes for the prior couple games.

For that same reason, I think you're fooling yourself if you think that Holloway would have a bunch of rope if he came up. Either he's both contributing offence and playing mistake-free hockey, or he's alternating between 4 minutes a night and a view from the pressbox. Kid only just turned 20 in September, and if there's one thing we know about Tippett it is that generally he doesn't trust kids and won't play them unless his hand is forced.

Ryan's played every game he's been healthy for and Shore is literally one of the worst players in the league. Even with the problems with Ryan's game - whatever they are - I'm not sure that Shore is any kind of upgrade. McLeod should have permanently cemented the 3rd line center slot now though - He's just clearly better than the other options and he's starting to show a little more confidence.

Honestly, I don't know what it is with Ryan this year. He can't seem to step on the ice without the other team scoring on him, and the team doesn't seem to threaten the opposition net at all. He's lucky not to have been -3 with that one where Sceviour tied up the stick saving him.

But the weird thing is that it seems like he's a different player than he has been before. He was a +14 over 345 NHL games coming in to the season, and a -13 in 20 this year. He's averages well over a shot per game historically - this season he's at 0.75. Last year he scored 13 points in 43 games, about a point every three games - this year he has a single point in 20 appearances. Some of that maybe is luck - he's shooting well below his normal shooting percentage and the opposition has a tremendous shooting percentage when he's on the ice, but I think there's more to it than that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF46jGAVgAM6Bbd?format=png&name=900x900
Source - https://twitter.com/NHL_Sid/status/1467675067244900354

Ryan's in his mid-30s, so it's possible he's just fallen off the cliff but our depth is sinking in to an abyss despite an apparent airlift of skill upgrades this summer. To me, at some point I'm blaming that on Tippett rather than Derek Ryan and the others.

On an unrelated note:

Quote:


Allan Walsh
@walsha

Oilers defenseman William Lagesson had his best game in the NHL Friday night. What happens? Dave Tippett never told him he’s out tonight, didn’t tell him to skate with the scratches, he finds out just before the game. It’s the kind of disrespect from a coach that destroys teams.


Not sure I agree with Walsh (his agent) that that was his best NHL game on Friday, and someone had to come out with Nurse going in. But man, it's Coaching 101 to know that you have to communicate that stuff to your players. Big fail from Tippett, and clearly Lagesson wasn't happy if his agent is saying that (although it's not that helpful to his client - Lagesson will definitely be the first sent down now). [



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795511 is a reply to message #795509 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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6 Cups

More Walsh:

Quote:

Allan Walsh
@walsha

William Lagesson has done everything asked of him by the organization. Players get scratched and have no issues with that. All we ask is to be treated with respect and Dave Tippett has shown he doesn’t care to do that with his players.


Quote:

Allan Walsh
@walsha

Oilers dman William Lagesson Friday night-

CF%: 79.17
XGF%: 61.57
SCF% 71.43
HDCF%: 100.00


What a mess. You have to really make it awkward before a rookie lets his agent go off like this.

Seems like a situation that's avoided by a 2 minute conversation with the kid. Although I would guess that there's more here than just this snub.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795539 is a reply to message #795511 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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In a market with real media, you might expect that a player agent carving the head coach on twitter would create a bit of a splash and that you'd see some real commentary, so let's have a look around:

Jim Matheson - nothing
Terry Jones - nothing
Mark Spector - nothing
Ryan Rishaug - nothing
Bob Stauffer - nothing
Kurt Leavins - nothing
David Staples - nothing
Dustin Nielsen - "This literally doesn’t help anyone involved in the “situation” in any way."
Robin Brownlee - In reply to Nielsen: "My client William Lagesson . . ."
Jason Gregor -
https://oilersnation.com/2021/12/06/slow-starts-are-exposing -edmonton-oilers/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter More from him than anyone, but of course, just protecting the team and not digging in to the story any further.
Daniel Nugent-Bowman - nothing (this is the most surprising to me).

I was trying to remember the name of the other couple people who cover for the Journal/Sun, but they're so forgettable that I can't remember them. I'm sure they wrote long articles though...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795540 is a reply to message #795539 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 13:22

In a market with real media, you might expect that a player agent carving the head coach on twitter would create a bit of a splash and that you'd see some real commentary, so let's have a look around:

Jim Matheson - nothing
Terry Jones - nothing
Mark Spector - nothing
Ryan Rishaug - nothing
Bob Stauffer - nothing
Kurt Leavins - nothing
David Staples - nothing
Dustin Nielsen - "This literally doesn’t help anyone involved in the “situation” in any way."
Robin Brownlee - In reply to Nielsen: "My client William Lagesson . . ."
Jason Gregor -
https://oilersnation.com/2021/12/06/slow-starts-are-exposing -edmonton-oilers/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter More from him than anyone, but of course, just protecting the team and not digging in to the story any further.
Daniel Nugent-Bowman - nothing (this is the most surprising to me).

I was trying to remember the name of the other couple people who cover for the Journal/Sun, but they're so forgettable that I can't remember them. I'm sure they wrote long articles though...


Sucks, but I think Tippett really is becoming a problem. There is a clear pattern that he picks out easy targets to fixate and vent his frustration on. Bear was one of those guys last year. Bouch may have been one as well last season after a couple mistakes. Tippett's unfair targetting of younger guys basically cost us having one of the best cheap RHD groups in the league this year. Bouch-Bear-Ceci would have been a top 10 right side for ~6M. Instead we sign Barrie who is just waiting around every night to play with McDavid to look like he doesn't belong on a bad teams 3rd pair and we toss Bear for a guy we could have got for a 3rd round pick.




"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795541 is a reply to message #795540 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently online Mike
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 16:29

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 13:22

In a market with real media, you might expect that a player agent carving the head coach on twitter would create a bit of a splash and that you'd see some real commentary, so let's have a look around:

Jim Matheson - nothing
Terry Jones - nothing
Mark Spector - nothing
Ryan Rishaug - nothing
Bob Stauffer - nothing
Kurt Leavins - nothing
David Staples - nothing
Dustin Nielsen - "This literally doesn’t help anyone involved in the “situation” in any way."
Robin Brownlee - In reply to Nielsen: "My client William Lagesson . . ."
Jason Gregor -
https://oilersnation.com/2021/12/06/slow-starts-are-exposing -edmonton-oilers/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter More from him than anyone, but of course, just protecting the team and not digging in to the story any further.
Daniel Nugent-Bowman - nothing (this is the most surprising to me).

I was trying to remember the name of the other couple people who cover for the Journal/Sun, but they're so forgettable that I can't remember them. I'm sure they wrote long articles though...


Sucks, but I think Tippett really is becoming a problem. There is a clear pattern that he picks out easy targets to fixate and vent his frustration on. Bear was one of those guys last year. Bouch may have been one as well last season after a couple mistakes. Tippett's unfair targetting of younger guys basically cost us having one of the best cheap RHD groups in the league this year. Bouch-Bear-Ceci would have been a top 10 right side for ~6M. Instead we sign Barrie who is just waiting around every night to play with McDavid to look like he doesn't belong on a bad teams 3rd pair and we toss Bear for a guy we could have got for a 3rd round pick.




The whole team could realistically have been so much better, so easily. It's frustrating.

Though I admit, Ceci and Hyman, especially Hyman, have been much better than I expected.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795542 is a reply to message #795541 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 13:32

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 16:29

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 13:22

In a market with real media, you might expect that a player agent carving the head coach on twitter would create a bit of a splash and that you'd see some real commentary, so let's have a look around:

Jim Matheson - nothing
Terry Jones - nothing
Mark Spector - nothing
Ryan Rishaug - nothing
Bob Stauffer - nothing
Kurt Leavins - nothing
David Staples - nothing
Dustin Nielsen - "This literally doesn’t help anyone involved in the “situation” in any way."
Robin Brownlee - In reply to Nielsen: "My client William Lagesson . . ."
Jason Gregor -
https://oilersnation.com/2021/12/06/slow-starts-are-exposing -edmonton-oilers/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter More from him than anyone, but of course, just protecting the team and not digging in to the story any further.
Daniel Nugent-Bowman - nothing (this is the most surprising to me).

I was trying to remember the name of the other couple people who cover for the Journal/Sun, but they're so forgettable that I can't remember them. I'm sure they wrote long articles though...


Sucks, but I think Tippett really is becoming a problem. There is a clear pattern that he picks out easy targets to fixate and vent his frustration on. Bear was one of those guys last year. Bouch may have been one as well last season after a couple mistakes. Tippett's unfair targetting of younger guys basically cost us having one of the best cheap RHD groups in the league this year. Bouch-Bear-Ceci would have been a top 10 right side for ~6M. Instead we sign Barrie who is just waiting around every night to play with McDavid to look like he doesn't belong on a bad teams 3rd pair and we toss Bear for a guy we could have got for a 3rd round pick.




The whole team could realistically have been so much better, so easily. It's frustrating.

Though I admit, Ceci and Hyman, especially Hyman, have been much better than I expected.



Yeah, Ceci has lived up to being a Larsson replacement. Funny they have the same stat line too, 1-5-6. I'm excluding Larsson's 2nd goal since that was just an easy hockey gods gift as an ex-Oiler and really should not count.

Hyman definitely is as advertised.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795519 is a reply to message #795509 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently online Mike
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Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 02:26

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF46jGAVgAM6Bbd?format=png&name=900x900
Source - https://twitter.com/NHL_Sid/status/1467675067244900354

Ryan's in his mid-30s, so it's possible he's just fallen off the cliff but our depth is sinking in to an abyss despite an apparent airlift of skill upgrades this summer. To me, at some point I'm blaming that on Tippett rather than Derek Ryan and the others. [


That has to be approaching historically bad numbers doesn't it? Imagine how good this team could be if we were even close tp 50% without McDrai, let alone over.

There has to be something systemic - not ALL those guys can always be that bad can they? We bring in guys that we're pretty happy with and then they just get cratered. I don't get it.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795520 is a reply to message #795519 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 09:09

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 02:26

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF46jGAVgAM6Bbd?format=png&name=900x900
Source - https://twitter.com/NHL_Sid/status/1467675067244900354

Ryan's in his mid-30s, so it's possible he's just fallen off the cliff but our depth is sinking in to an abyss despite an apparent airlift of skill upgrades this summer. To me, at some point I'm blaming that on Tippett rather than Derek Ryan and the others. [


That has to be approaching historically bad numbers doesn't it? Imagine how good this team could be if we were even close tp 50% without McDrai, let alone over.

There has to be something systemic - not ALL those guys can always be that bad can they? We bring in guys that we're pretty happy with and then they just get cratered. I don't get it.


We were at the bottom of the league last year, and we're much much worse this year.

Most of the best teams would at least be near 50%. I mean, it's not like these are the guys you're putting out against the other teams stars. Derek Ryan is getting slaughtered by third and fourth liners. Warren Foegele's now -9 too playing mostly against depth, after being a + player in three of four seasons with Carolina. He's gone from scoring 10 goals in 53 games last year to just 2 in the first 23 this year. His assists are on pace, but his shots per game are way way down too (1.72 to 1.26).

I believe that Tippett is stressing defence only on those bottom lines, and asking them to take no risks. That leads to more time in the defensive zone, and worse performance generally. Couple that with a couple weak defence pairings, and it's a recipe for ruin.

Although, while I am blaming this mostly on Tippett at this point, it's pretty hard for anyone to see the Bear/Foegele trade as anything but an unmitigated disaster as Bear plays tough minutes on the top pairing, while Foegele's getting lit up by third liners.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795538 is a reply to message #795520 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 09:41

Mike wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 09:09

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 02:26

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF46jGAVgAM6Bbd?format=png&name=900x900
Source - https://twitter.com/NHL_Sid/status/1467675067244900354

Ryan's in his mid-30s, so it's possible he's just fallen off the cliff but our depth is sinking in to an abyss despite an apparent airlift of skill upgrades this summer. To me, at some point I'm blaming that on Tippett rather than Derek Ryan and the others. [


That has to be approaching historically bad numbers doesn't it? Imagine how good this team could be if we were even close tp 50% without McDrai, let alone over.

There has to be something systemic - not ALL those guys can always be that bad can they? We bring in guys that we're pretty happy with and then they just get cratered. I don't get it.


We were at the bottom of the league last year, and we're much much worse this year.

Most of the best teams would at least be near 50%. I mean, it's not like these are the guys you're putting out against the other teams stars. Derek Ryan is getting slaughtered by third and fourth liners. Warren Foegele's now -9 too playing mostly against depth, after being a + player in three of four seasons with Carolina. He's gone from scoring 10 goals in 53 games last year to just 2 in the first 23 this year. His assists are on pace, but his shots per game are way way down too (1.72 to 1.26).

I believe that Tippett is stressing defence only on those bottom lines, and asking them to take no risks. That leads to more time in the defensive zone, and worse performance generally. Couple that with a couple weak defence pairings, and it's a recipe for ruin.

Although, while I am blaming this mostly on Tippett at this point, it's pretty hard for anyone to see the Bear/Foegele trade as anything but an unmitigated disaster as Bear plays tough minutes on the top pairing, while Foegele's getting lit up by third liners.


Does it soften the pain a bit that we paid Barrie double what Bear makes to be a 40% corsi/fenwick guy on a 3rd pair?



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795530 is a reply to message #795509 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Sun, 05 December 2021 23:26

Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 05 December 2021 21:45


My main point with the suggestion for a rotation down in Bako is that its seems that the D call ups are playing better positional hockey than most of the D on the roster (Barrie especially), seem to be better positionally prepared, I credit Manson for that. Whatever they get taught down there isn't being practiced up here. Some need a refresher course on how to play D.

Ryan is a mess, another -2 to subtract from his season GA. But if Benson, Perlini, Turris were any better, I'm sure they would be out there, but they can't play center (other than Turris- badly), and none can PK. Maybe Ryan still has concussion symptoms, he doesn't seem all there.

Still too many weak and meek players on the roster that McD + LD's efforts can't totally overcome.. every game.

As soon as Shore is back at least that gets Ryan off the ice.. small positive.

Too bad Holloway was injured, he'd have a clear path to see what he can do on the top 6 as a winger, or as the #3 C, plus PK.



I'm totally onboard with flipping Manson up to Edmonton and sending Playfair to Bakersfield or anywhere else. I'd be happy to see Tippett replaced too (although I'd like to have the team do an actual search for a coach as opposed to just bringing up the farm team guy if they were to pull the trigger on that).

I agree that the farm hands have looked decent, which is one more reason it's ridiculous that Tippett tried to play Russell/Barrie for Pronger/Niedermayer minutes for the prior couple games.

For that same reason, I think you're fooling yourself if you think that Holloway would have a bunch of rope if he came up. Either he's both contributing offence and playing mistake-free hockey, or he's alternating between 4 minutes a night and a view from the pressbox. Kid only just turned 20 in September, and if there's one thing we know about Tippett it is that generally he doesn't trust kids and won't play them unless his hand is forced.

Ryan's played every game he's been healthy for and Shore is literally one of the worst players in the league. Even with the problems with Ryan's game - whatever they are - I'm not sure that Shore is any kind of upgrade. McLeod should have permanently cemented the 3rd line center slot now though - He's just clearly better than the other options and he's starting to show a little more confidence.

Honestly, I don't know what it is with Ryan this year. He can't seem to step on the ice without the other team scoring on him, and the team doesn't seem to threaten the opposition net at all. He's lucky not to have been -3 with that one where Sceviour tied up the stick saving him.

But the weird thing is that it seems like he's a different player than he has been before. He was a +14 over 345 NHL games coming in to the season, and a -13 in 20 this year. He's averages well over a shot per game historically - this season he's at 0.75. Last year he scored 13 points in 43 games, about a point every three games - this year he has a single point in 20 appearances. Some of that maybe is luck - he's shooting well below his normal shooting percentage and the opposition has a tremendous shooting percentage when he's on the ice, but I think there's more to it than that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FF46jGAVgAM6Bbd?format=png&name=900x900
Source - https://twitter.com/NHL_Sid/status/1467675067244900354

Ryan's in his mid-30s, so it's possible he's just fallen off the cliff but our depth is sinking in to an abyss despite an apparent airlift of skill upgrades this summer. To me, at some point I'm blaming that on Tippett rather than Derek Ryan and the others.

On an unrelated note:

Quote:


Allan Walsh
@walsha

Oilers defenseman William Lagesson had his best game in the NHL Friday night. What happens? Dave Tippett never told him he’s out tonight, didn’t tell him to skate with the scratches, he finds out just before the game. It’s the kind of disrespect from a coach that destroys teams.


Not sure I agree with Walsh (his agent) that that was his best NHL game on Friday, and someone had to come out with Nurse going in. But man, it's Coaching 101 to know that you have to communicate that stuff to your players. Big fail from Tippett, and clearly Lagesson wasn't happy if his agent is saying that (although it's not that helpful to his client - Lagesson will definitely be the first sent down now). [


lol, how can Ryan be this bad. It's nuts. 0.871 PDO now. That's by far the lowest in the entire NHL for guys that played at least 100 minutes. Broberg is 2nd last with 0.896. No other player in the league is worse than 0.9 now.

I'd say let him keep grinding and wait for things to even out, but maybe he's legit cursed. You put him out on the ice, and 1/6 shots on your net just keep going in.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795502 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Bottom line is that team, over all, is too weak, meek, and has a lack of quickness to win games against bigger opponents that play a tight system. Too many guys possess 2 of the 3 aforementioned characteristics.
Guys like D. Ryan, Barrie, Yamo, Turris, Perlini, McLeod, Benson, RNH, Kassian (he's playing like a kitten- did he discover Buddhism?). Some of this is lack of physical tools, but mostly its mental make-up and level of determination.

Oil made good additions with Hyman, Ceci, Foegle.. still too many holes in the line up to contend with the best in the playoffs.


You see what this team really is when McDavid's not on the ice. He gives a sad roster a chance to win every game.



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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795503 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Sun, 05 December 2021 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oh.. and someone needs to explain to Barrie that he is not a quick skater, he has to stop pinching for offence (that he never gets anyway), it creates way too many chances against that can take the team out of the game. Show him some video if he doesn't believe you, a compilation of his greatest 2 on 1's against.


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795515 is a reply to message #795503 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 05 December 2021 21:15

Oh.. and someone needs to explain to Barrie that he is not a quick skater, he has to stop pinching for offence (that he never gets anyway), it creates way too many chances against that can take the team out of the game. Show him some video if he doesn't believe you, a compilation of his greatest 2 on 1's against.


Barrie starts every year like a snail with a trailer hitch - slow and wobbly. Then he goes up a notch every 20 games or so until he's elite in the last 20 games of the season and everyone forgets he's a slow starter. Called it with Slim Jim Phantom Call over beers. He should be getting better over the next 20 games but still won't be on fire, the next 20 he'll be hot spit. Putting him with Russell was catastrophic for both of them - they have absolutely NO chemistry and are both roaming players with zero positioning. I figure Russell got the record for blocking shots because he's playing both sides at once so he gets twice the opportunities of any competent defenceman.




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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795516 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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If Barrie plays, he needs to drop down to the 3rd pair, against weak opposition, he's a defensive liability, still.
Not sure who the 1st and 2nd pair RHD would be though..
Maybe Ceci #1 RHD, Bouchard #2 RHD?



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795517 is a reply to message #795516 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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Sounds like I picked a good game to skip.


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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795518 is a reply to message #795517 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Not much to say about the game. Most of the team was pretty bad including a no show by any of the stars. I do think teams get really amped up to play the Oilers stars so they come out firing looking to bang the Oilers early and often to start games.

I saw a few times the Kings looked like they were playing a 1-3-1 and not really pressing much after the first. Oilers need to figure out a way to get around that as more teams are just going to sit back, not let the Oilers get any speed in the neutral zone and just wait for the Oilers to get frustrate, start pressing and make mistakes. I saw McD slamming some gates last night so teams are going to see that and just keep doing it. The Oilers players don't appear to be the type of team willing to change how they play. It's got to be show time, cross crease passes, 3 or 4 passes before the guy just taps it in. When things aren't working, sometimes you just have to simplify your game get lots of pucks on goal, look for tips and rebounds but they don't seem to be willing to do that.

I had hoped with Skinner getting the start in Seattle, it would break the cycle of Koskinen having a bad game after multiple good ones. NOPE. I thought the Oilers had some life after that Nurse goal and then in my opinion, visibly sagged big time after Koskinen let that second goal stinker.

I did find it pretty laughable and pathetic of the NHL that of all people McD gets a 5 and a game. Sure he hit him but given the amount of crap McD takes that doesn't get called, some of it dangerous, just shows how far gone the refs are. At least Tippet ripped a strip off the ref and from reading his lips, I am pretty sure he said exactly the same thing. Long, long, long, long overdue.

Move on, be better next game.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795524 is a reply to message #795518 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The problem with the continuous bad starts is in my opinion, it has to come from the top guys. Those guys need to set the tempo. If they come out guns a blazing, it will trickle down to rest. Bad starts have been a problem for a very, very long time with multiple coaches. It's a mindset that the big boys need to change. As an example, Nuge is in his 11th year as an Oiler and bad starts have been a thing since he started. I am not pinning it on him what so ever but just using him as an example of the top guys needing a mindset change.


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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795527 is a reply to message #795524 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:02

The problem with the continuous bad starts is in my opinion, it has to come from the top guys. Those guys need to set the tempo. If they come out guns a blazing, it will trickle down to rest. Bad starts have been a problem for a very, very long time with multiple coaches. It's a mindset that the big boys need to change. As an example, Nuge is in his 11th year as an Oiler and bad starts have been a thing since he started. I am not pinning it on him what so ever but just using him as an example of the top guys needing a mindset change.


While I know you love using Nugent-Hopkins as a whipping boy, I don't think that it's fair to say there's been 11 years of bad starts. That's not something I think you could objectively point to. There's been times where they've started well, and times where they have not.

It's a tough thing to fully define - if you looked just at who scored first, you have to remember that if it was even distribution than you'd expect that to be about 50% - and even then, that's a bad definition: you can start well and still be scored on first.

I think it makes more sense to look at the recent sample and try and diagnose that, rather than to make a sweeping generalization. They've got outshot starting the game badly in several games lately, so why is that. Is there a feeling in process? Are they worried about goaltending, so cheating for defence rather than attacking? Is there something wrong with the system they have been coached to play?

It is a team game, so I think bad starts are on everyone, and since it's so often (including last night) the depth guys getting scored on, I don't think you can simply point at the top players and say it's their responsibility to be better. Remember - two of those guys are leading the league in points and your favourite Nugent-Hopkins is on a point-per-game pace still.

If I was going to diagnose it - I think a big part of the problem is that the 5-on-5 system is weak - to the point where McDavid is only +9 and Nuge only +4 despite both being pretty good players this year. It's noticeable at the start of the game because there haven't been any special teams usually at that point, but I think it's actually more persistent than we notice - just that we have a couple players who tilt the ice, and when we get a powerplay, we get a ton of chances, shots and usually goals.

In short, I don't blame the top players for this.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795533 is a reply to message #795527 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:02

The problem with the continuous bad starts is in my opinion, it has to come from the top guys. Those guys need to set the tempo. If they come out guns a blazing, it will trickle down to rest. Bad starts have been a problem for a very, very long time with multiple coaches. It's a mindset that the big boys need to change. As an example, Nuge is in his 11th year as an Oiler and bad starts have been a thing since he started. I am not pinning it on him what so ever but just using him as an example of the top guys needing a mindset change.


While I know you love using Nugent-Hopkins as a whipping boy, I don't think that it's fair to say there's been 11 years of bad starts. That's not something I think you could objectively point to. There's been times where they've started well, and times where they have not.

It's a tough thing to fully define - if you looked just at who scored first, you have to remember that if it was even distribution than you'd expect that to be about 50% - and even then, that's a bad definition: you can start well and still be scored on first.

I think it makes more sense to look at the recent sample and try and diagnose that, rather than to make a sweeping generalization. They've got outshot starting the game badly in several games lately, so why is that. Is there a feeling in process? Are they worried about goaltending, so cheating for defence rather than attacking? Is there something wrong with the system they have been coached to play?

It is a team game, so I think bad starts are on everyone, and since it's so often (including last night) the depth guys getting scored on, I don't think you can simply point at the top players and say it's their responsibility to be better. Remember - two of those guys are leading the league in points and your favourite Nugent-Hopkins is on a point-per-game pace still.

If I was going to diagnose it - I think a big part of the problem is that the 5-on-5 system is weak - to the point where McDavid is only +9 and Nuge only +4 despite both being pretty good players this year. It's noticeable at the start of the game because there haven't been any special teams usually at that point, but I think it's actually more persistent than we notice - just that we have a couple players who tilt the ice, and when we get a powerplay, we get a ton of chances, shots and usually goals.

In short, I don't blame the top players for this.

I literally said I am not pinning the bad starts on him. FIRST paragraph! Then you follow it up with "I know you like to use Nuge as a whipping boy." You want to know why I get bent out of shape from time to time with your responses, there is exhibit A. I freaking qualify what I am saying with a statement and then you stuff words in my mouth saying I am doing the opposite.

The entire point was I don't think it's coaching which I also said in my statement. I used Nuge as an example only because he's been here for 11 yrs and is the longest standing Oiler. In his 11 yrs there have been many coaches yet the Oilers tend to have poor starts year after year. So I don't think this is a problem that a coach can just coach out of the players. They as a team have to want to come out guns a blazing. I also think it's on the top guys because they play the most. Lots of times one of the top lines starts the game. So asking the 4th line to get the team off to a good start when by the time they get in their first shift the game is probably 4+ mins old, I do not think is realistic.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795536 is a reply to message #795533 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 11:03

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:02

The problem with the continuous bad starts is in my opinion, it has to come from the top guys. Those guys need to set the tempo. If they come out guns a blazing, it will trickle down to rest. Bad starts have been a problem for a very, very long time with multiple coaches. It's a mindset that the big boys need to change. As an example, Nuge is in his 11th year as an Oiler and bad starts have been a thing since he started. I am not pinning it on him what so ever but just using him as an example of the top guys needing a mindset change.


While I know you love using Nugent-Hopkins as a whipping boy, I don't think that it's fair to say there's been 11 years of bad starts. That's not something I think you could objectively point to. There's been times where they've started well, and times where they have not.

It's a tough thing to fully define - if you looked just at who scored first, you have to remember that if it was even distribution than you'd expect that to be about 50% - and even then, that's a bad definition: you can start well and still be scored on first.

I think it makes more sense to look at the recent sample and try and diagnose that, rather than to make a sweeping generalization. They've got outshot starting the game badly in several games lately, so why is that. Is there a feeling in process? Are they worried about goaltending, so cheating for defence rather than attacking? Is there something wrong with the system they have been coached to play?

It is a team game, so I think bad starts are on everyone, and since it's so often (including last night) the depth guys getting scored on, I don't think you can simply point at the top players and say it's their responsibility to be better. Remember - two of those guys are leading the league in points and your favourite Nugent-Hopkins is on a point-per-game pace still.

If I was going to diagnose it - I think a big part of the problem is that the 5-on-5 system is weak - to the point where McDavid is only +9 and Nuge only +4 despite both being pretty good players this year. It's noticeable at the start of the game because there haven't been any special teams usually at that point, but I think it's actually more persistent than we notice - just that we have a couple players who tilt the ice, and when we get a powerplay, we get a ton of chances, shots and usually goals.

In short, I don't blame the top players for this.

I literally said I am not pinning the bad starts on him. FIRST paragraph! Then you follow it up with "I know you like to use Nuge as a whipping boy." You want to know why I get bent out of shape from time to time with your responses, there is exhibit A. I freaking qualify what I am saying with a statement and then you stuff words in my mouth saying I am doing the opposite.

The entire point was I don't think it's coaching which I also said in my statement. I used Nuge as an example only because he's been here for 11 yrs and is the longest standing Oiler. In his 11 yrs there have been many coaches yet the Oilers tend to have poor starts year after year. So I don't think this is a problem that a coach can just coach out of the players. They as a team have to want to come out guns a blazing. I also think it's on the top guys because they play the most. Lots of times one of the top lines starts the game. So asking the 4th line to get the team off to a good start when by the time they get in their first shift the game is probably 4+ mins old, I do not think is realistic.


I don't think it's an out of left field comment to say that you have some whipping boys amongst the team. You can say the same with me and Ken Holland or Bob Nicholson if you wish.

You said in your post:
Quote:

The problem with the continuous bad starts is in my opinion, it has to come from the top guys ... As an example, Nuge is in his 11th year as an Oiler and bad starts have been a thing since he started. I am not pinning it on him what so ever but just using him as an example of the top guys needing a mindset change.


So you're kind of blaming the top guys. I don't think this is about the first shift of the game - it's more about the first 10 minutes. Last night I think the shots were 10-1 for the Kings and the Oilers never covered that gap. We trailed by a similar margin the rest of the game.

I also think that fans tend to remember specific bad starts, but that there's no nuance to memory. There's no consistent 11 year theme here. There just isn't.

You can however look at this year and see that we tend to get out-shot in the first period, often badly, and that we're often getting behind before we seem to show up (we've trailed first in 14 games, scored first in 9). I think there's more trends here that you can look at, and honestly, I don't think the big guys are the biggest reason. If anything, they're the ones getting most of our chances, and even drawing most of the powerplays, despite the league's preference for refs to look the other way when our guys get mugged. As we've seen, often games turn on our powerplays. Digging a hole does make a difference though - we're 7-7 in the 14 games when the other team scores the first goal, and 9-0 when we score first.

I also reject the idea that this is simply about bad starts. I think it's more about poor 5v5 play. The Oilers are the 3rd worst team in the league for shots against. They are horrible when the top three players aren't on the ice by every metric. They changed up a lot of personnel, so either they did a terrible job identifying the right players to add to the team, or, more likely, the coaching is poor at 5v5. I mean, consider that 97 on the ice without 29 has an 12-10 goal share this year. That's ridiculous. If your system doesn't have McDavid outscoring the opposition when given decent but not elite wingers??? Then the system is broken.

#FireTippett.

[Updated on: Mon, 06 December 2021 13:07]


"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795523 is a reply to message #795492 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NCREDiBLE  is currently offline NCREDiBLE
Messages: 365
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

That was a terrible effort, with a very tough upcoming schedule..
Those are some scary facts about how Tippet is deploying the 3rd & 4th line to take no chances.
Holland hasn't addressed the needs in bottom six or the defence.. or goal really, Skinner bought him time and Koskinen is always a risk.

I'm loving the idea of Woodcroft as coach.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795525 is a reply to message #795523 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17032
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:00

That was a terrible effort, with a very tough upcoming schedule..
Those are some scary facts about how Tippet is deploying the 3rd & 4th line to take no chances.
Holland hasn't addressed the needs in bottom six or the defence.. or goal really, Skinner bought him time and Koskinen is always a risk.

I'm loving the idea of Woodcroft as coach.


Ugh - I hate defending Tippett and Holland but I'll do it just a little here:

- I don't know that Tippett is counselling no risks, just drawing implications from shot rates and production rates and trying to explain why they are worse this year than last, despite almost all new people. I can't claim that it's a fact he's doing that - just a working theory.

- To be fair to Holland, of the players in the bottom six and spares this year, really only Kassian, Turris and Shore were here all last year. Ryan, Foegele, McLeod, Benson, Sceviour and Perlini are all new. Holland failed with upgrading the goaltending, and he's likely botched the defence badly with his moves around Bear, Barrie, Keith, Ceci, and Koekkoek in the summer - but I think on paper that bottom six is better. That's one reason I am happy to hang that failure on Tippett instead.

- I do wonder if there are real issues with Tippett not just not allowing mistakes from young players, but also in communicating with them on it too, given the Lagesson thing. I wonder how much time someone like Tyler Benson is getting with the coaches, or whether they are just scratching him or benching him, and leaving it to him to figure out why. That would explain a lot of issues...

- Maybe it's time to add a #FireTippett to my signature...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795534 is a reply to message #795525 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 7257
Registered: January 2016

6 Cups

I do like what I have seen so far from Niemelainen. He's huge man that moves very well. He brings a physical element to the Oilers defense that they lack and I think they need. His puck moving needs to improve but if he can do that a little, they might having something in him.


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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795550 is a reply to message #795525 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NCREDiBLE  is currently offline NCREDiBLE
Messages: 365
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:07

NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:00

That was a terrible effort, with a very tough upcoming schedule..
Those are some scary facts about how Tippet is deploying the 3rd & 4th line to take no chances.
Holland hasn't addressed the needs in bottom six or the defence.. or goal really, Skinner bought him time and Koskinen is always a risk.

I'm loving the idea of Woodcroft as coach.


Ugh - I hate defending Tippett and Holland but I'll do it just a little here:

- I don't know that Tippett is counselling no risks, just drawing implications from shot rates and production rates and trying to explain why they are worse this year than last, despite almost all new people. I can't claim that it's a fact he's doing that - just a working theory.

- To be fair to Holland, of the players in the bottom six and spares this year, really only Kassian, Turris and Shore were here all last year. Ryan, Foegele, McLeod, Benson, Sceviour and Perlini are all new. Holland failed with upgrading the goaltending, and he's likely botched the defence badly with his moves around Bear, Barrie, Keith, Ceci, and Koekkoek in the summer - but I think on paper that bottom six is better. That's one reason I am happy to hang that failure on Tippett instead.

- I do wonder if there are real issues with Tippett not just not allowing mistakes from young players, but also in communicating with them on it too, given the Lagesson thing. I wonder how much time someone like Tyler Benson is getting with the coaches, or whether they are just scratching him or benching him, and leaving it to him to figure out why. That would explain a lot of issues...

- Maybe it's time to add a #FireTippett to my signature...


I can get behind the #FireTippett. I honestly thought with how much he got out of a bottom dweller team like Arizona, that he would do wonders here but he really doesn't.
the kids cant make any mistakes or they're punished. Outside of Mcdavid & Drai, whos really doing anything? 5 on 5 is a mess.. it's just not working out.. if it wasn't for the whole Chicago mess.. id have loved Coach Q but I believe that Jay Woodcroft is the guy.



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 Re: Review: Los Angeles @ Edmonton (Game #23) [message #795551 is a reply to message #795550 ]
Mon, 06 December 2021 18:07 Go to previous message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5280
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 16:39

Adam wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:07

NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 06 December 2021 10:00

That was a terrible effort, with a very tough upcoming schedule..
Those are some scary facts about how Tippet is deploying the 3rd & 4th line to take no chances.
Holland hasn't addressed the needs in bottom six or the defence.. or goal really, Skinner bought him time and Koskinen is always a risk.

I'm loving the idea of Woodcroft as coach.


Ugh - I hate defending Tippett and Holland but I'll do it just a little here:

- I don't know that Tippett is counselling no risks, just drawing implications from shot rates and production rates and trying to explain why they are worse this year than last, despite almost all new people. I can't claim that it's a fact he's doing that - just a working theory.

- To be fair to Holland, of the players in the bottom six and spares this year, really only Kassian, Turris and Shore were here all last year. Ryan, Foegele, McLeod, Benson, Sceviour and Perlini are all new. Holland failed with upgrading the goaltending, and he's likely botched the defence badly with his moves around Bear, Barrie, Keith, Ceci, and Koekkoek in the summer - but I think on paper that bottom six is better. That's one reason I am happy to hang that failure on Tippett instead.

- I do wonder if there are real issues with Tippett not just not allowing mistakes from young players, but also in communicating with them on it too, given the Lagesson thing. I wonder how much time someone like Tyler Benson is getting with the coaches, or whether they are just scratching him or benching him, and leaving it to him to figure out why. That would explain a lot of issues...

- Maybe it's time to add a #FireTippett to my signature...


I can get behind the #FireTippett. I honestly thought with how much he got out of a bottom dweller team like Arizona, that he would do wonders here but he really doesn't.
the kids cant make any mistakes or they're punished. Outside of Mcdavid & Drai, whos really doing anything? 5 on 5 is a mess.. it's just not working out.. if it wasn't for the whole Chicago mess.. id have loved Coach Q but I believe that Jay Woodcroft is the guy.


I'm not against a coaching change but this is a critical fricking moment and if the Oilers do that, then the brain trust had better be sure that the result is what is wanted, which is pretty much a Stanley Cup. A change can be what gets the entirety of the lineup on the same exact page and they're a juggernaut, or it can go sideways and you're back to square one with disillusioned star players. I'd be clenching a bit at running off Tippett right now if I were the GM. I don't know how much rope Tippett has, though. If the he's still here and the Oilers choke again in the playoffs, that's it, but what has to happen in the regular season for him to be skidded?



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