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 Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #730408]
Tue, 12 February 2019 20:53 Go to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Alex Ovechkin has 645 goals in 1058 games played. He turned 33 in September, and is on track to lead the league in goals again this year. He has 38 currently and is on pace for 56. I think it's pretty astounding what he has done in a lower scoring era, and so this would be an interesting discussion. I will be making some numbers comparisons to Gretzky, as most would probably agree that he owns the GOAT title for goals.

Some notes:

- Ovechkin has led the league in goals 7 times already. This is tied for the record with Bobby Hull. Gretzky led the league 5 times. If Ovechkin leads the league again this year, he will own the record for himself.

- Ovechkin was the 4th fastest player to 600 goals (990 games). He his behind Gretzky (718 games), Lemieux (719) and Brett Hull (900).

- Ovechkin currently has 645 goals. Gretzky has 894 goals in 1487 games.

- The next 5 points are going to be a mathematical attempt to compare Gretzky and Ovechkin while removing the the goal scoring effects of their respective era. Since Gretzky played in a very high scoring era, how can we reasonably compare the two? My theory is that a player's share of the total league wide goals will give us a useful number to compare just how dominant they were. If Gretzky scored 100 goals in a season where there were 1000 total NHL goals, he would have a 10% share of the NHL's goals. If Ovechkin scored 50 goals in a season where there were 500 total NHL goals, he would also have a 10% share of the total goals. Now we could infer that they may have similar goal scoring capabilities in this hypothetical example, instead of claiming that Gretzky was twice the goal scorer. There will be more to it than that, but this is the basis of this stat. I think this is a reasonable way to eliminate the era effects, so let's go into the actual numbers for Gretzky/Ovechkin.

- From the beginning of Ovechkin's career to today (age 33 season), there have been 91,170 total goals across the league in 16,383 games played. Ovechkin scored 645 goals in 1058 games played during this period.

- From the beginning of Gretzky's career to the end of his age 33 season (94-95), there were 100,340 total goals across the league in 13,684 games played. Gretzky scored 814 goals in 1173 games played.

- Now for the calculation. We are going to divide Ovechkin's own goals by his games played. This results in 0.61 G/GP for Ovechkin. If we divide this number by the league wide G/GP over the same period (5.56 G/GP), we'll get a ratio. This ratio represents Ovechkin's scoring rate relative to the league. This number is 0.110 for Ovechkin.

- Similarly for Gretzky's, we divide his G/GP over the same ages (0.694 G/GP) by the league wide G/GP (7.33 G/GP). This number is 0.094 for Gretzky.

- Now a higher value is better as it means that relative to the league averages in their respective eras, Ovechkin scored more goals than Gretzky. Pretty impressive.

- This method probably isn't perfect, but I think it makes comparing eras quite a bit easier. What do you think about it?

- It's also worth noting that Ovechkin's first eligible NHL season was a full season lockout. He also potentially missed 34 games due to the 12-13 lockout, for a total of 116 games missed. Gretzky would have missed 34 due to the 94-95 lockout.

If Ovechkin can lead the league for an 8th time, and score at a reasonably declining pace to finish his career, I think the conversation is going to shift in his favour quite a bit.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 February 2019 11:06]


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #730431 is a reply to message #730408 ]
Wed, 13 February 2019 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Ovi is amazing and I think there’s a good chance he gets to #2 all time. Gretzky in his prime was better and there’s no debate. Each player gets a maximum of 82 games to score their goals. Any other factors are irrelevant. Everybody gets injured, labour stoppages are a fact of life (there may be another one in ovechkin’s career). If Ovi has come close to threatening 50 goals in 39 games there could be more debate.

I will say that Ovechkin’s consistency is impressive though, and he’s certainly fun to watch.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #730432 is a reply to message #730431 ]
Wed, 13 February 2019 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PoolParty  is currently offline PoolParty
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This forum has turned into a pessimistic cesspool of bitching and whining about the same topics consistently.

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#RDOilerfan is possibly reformed, time will tell.

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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #730452 is a reply to message #730431 ]
Wed, 13 February 2019 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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If Ovechkin can lead the league 8 times (or more), there has to be some debate I think. Gretzky did it only 5 times, which surprised me. How can the greatest goal scorer of all time lead the league much less than another guy?


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #730463 is a reply to message #730452 ]
Wed, 13 February 2019 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC is currently online welcometotheOC
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Less competition?


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #730479 is a reply to message #730463 ]
Wed, 13 February 2019 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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welcometotheOC wrote on Wed, 13 February 2019 10:52

Less competition?


Mario started five years after Gretzky. He's also probably in the top five of all-time for goal-scoring too. I don't think Ovechkin has had the same level of competition. There's been no other goal-scorer who's at the same level during his career. Some great players, but no true goal scorers like him.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #730482 is a reply to message #730479 ]
Wed, 13 February 2019 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Adam wrote on Wed, 13 February 2019 11:22

welcometotheOC wrote on Wed, 13 February 2019 10:52

Less competition?


Mario started five years after Gretzky. He's also probably in the top five of all-time for goal-scoring too. I don't think Ovechkin has had the same level of competition. There's been no other goal-scorer who's at the same level during his career. Some great players, but no true goal scorers like him.


Of course, this could be spun as a testament to Ovechkin's abilities...figuring out how to consistently lead the league as scoring got harder for everyone. Better goalies, bigger pads, faster skaters, less time and space etc. The competition got better against him.

Forget goal scoring titles anyway. If he gets to 800 in this era, I think you could make a real solid argument for him on that alone.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 February 2019 13:37]


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #732181 is a reply to message #730408 ]
Fri, 01 March 2019 23:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Ovi put up goal #45 tonight. That makes him the first in history to score 45 ten times. Bossy and Gretzky both did it nine times.


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #760448 is a reply to message #730408 ]
Wed, 20 May 2020 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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It seems more and more likely everyday that the NHL will not play any regular season games this year.

If that happens it would mean that Ovechkin and Pastrnak share the Rocket Richard trophy this year with 48 goals each. That would be Ovechkin's NINTH time winning it. 4 more times than Gretzky, 2 more times than Bobby Hull.

He is at 706 right now and turns 35 in September. If the guy manages to play past 40, he could get close to the record, but 188 goals is a lot for a guy at that age. He's gonna need at least another 45-50 season and some 30s, but 800 should be in the stars.

It's too bad he has had 1.5 years of lockout, he'd really have a shot and it would be exciting to watch.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #760467 is a reply to message #730408 ]
Thu, 21 May 2020 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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On this topic in general, you see Bossy's name come up all the time. I think there are many ways to look at goal scoring per game and relative to peers where Bossy ends up being arguable the best ever. And he's nicer to compare to OV, because of his goal scoring style being far more similar. Gretzky was more about outsmarting everyone and being creative to score, finding new ways to end up with an open net to pop the puck into. OV is more shoot shoot shoot and shoot some more, who gives a crap where the goalie is.


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #760475 is a reply to message #760467 ]
Thu, 21 May 2020 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 21 May 2020 11:01

On this topic in general, you see Bossy's name come up all the time. I think there are many ways to look at goal scoring per game and relative to peers where Bossy ends up being arguable the best ever. And he's nicer to compare to OV, because of his goal scoring style being far more similar. Gretzky was more about outsmarting everyone and being creative to score, finding new ways to end up with an open net to pop the puck into. OV is more shoot shoot shoot and shoot some more, who gives a crap where the goalie is.


Bossy is in the conversation often, but I think Wayne has him beat easily. They played largely in the same era (Bossy is 4 years older). Wayne put up four 70+ goal seasons in the 80s while Bossy was still at peak. But 70 goals is a feat that Bossy never hit. I haven't run the numbers, but if you look at their seasons by age, and then compare goals per game, I would bet that Wayne comes out ahead in most years.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #760469 is a reply to message #730408 ]
Thu, 21 May 2020 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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even though I still say Gretzky, there's another factor effecting his numbers. The number of teams effects the dilution of talent, and goals scored.
Imagine if you consolidated the league to 20 teams today what that could do to overall scoring.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #760476 is a reply to message #760469 ]
Thu, 21 May 2020 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 21 May 2020 12:06

even though I still say Gretzky, there's another factor effecting his numbers. The number of teams effects the dilution of talent, and goals scored.
Imagine if you consolidated the league to 20 teams today what that could do to overall scoring.


The flip side of this is that you're drawing from a much deeper pool now. In the 1980s, you had 80% of the players coming from Canada. Now you have just over 50%. The game has grown in the US and Western Europe. It's shrinking in Czechia and Slovakia, but you see more players than ever from places like Denmark, Switzerland, Germany...



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #760522 is a reply to message #760476 ]
Thu, 21 May 2020 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Didn't grow up in Canada and so never watched games from the 80s. In these times of 'no sports' i've got to watch some of these classic games on TV and have come to realise how utterly crap the goalies were back then. It was like watching kids on the driveway take shots at a faulty tutor shooter. Amazed there weren't more 300 goal seasons icon_biggrin


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #760524 is a reply to message #760522 ]
Fri, 22 May 2020 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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haggis wrote on Thu, 21 May 2020 23:40

Didn't grow up in Canada and so never watched games from the 80s. In these times of 'no sports' i've got to watch some of these classic games on TV and have come to realise how utterly crap the goalies were back then. It was like watching kids on the driveway take shots at a faulty tutor shooter. Amazed there weren't more 300 goal seasons icon_biggrin

I just finished watching Gretzky's 5-goal game against Philly in December of 1981 where he got to 50-goals in 39-games. That was a treat to watch. Fuhr gave up a bunch of goals but somehow still played phenomenal. Currently midway through Game 1 of the 1984 Stanley Cup Final and Fuhr is putting on another show, but this time, so is Billy Smith. Wow.

On that note, this is off topic, but do any of you know a place where you can find highlights from other games in the 1980s? I'm looking for games during the 1987-88 season. My neighbor's brother played 14 games during that season for the Oilers, and I'd love find video of his two goals. Specifically, October 16, 1987 versus Calgary and April 1, 1988 versus St. Louis. He had a few assists too, but I figure the goals would be easier to find. I've struck out on Youtube, doesn't mean they're not there, just that I lack the ability to find them. Can any of you help?

And what are the chances any of you remember John Miner? LOL

ETA: specifying that he played for the Oilers.

[Updated on: Fri, 22 May 2020 08:30]


Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 00:29

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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793838 is a reply to message #760524 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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This freak is leading the league again as a 36 year old. 1 goal/game 9 games in. He obviously won't maintain this pace, but he will be given every opportunity to pad his stats.

He should be passing Hull in the next few games for 4th place, and barring injury will likely pass Jagr by the end of this season.

I think 40 is a pretty conservative estimate for this season given that he's already at 9 with 73 games left. That would put him at 770. That would leave him behind only Howe (801) and Gretzky's 894.

He doesn't seem to be slowing down much and it's looking more and more likely that one of the sports biggest records will fall.

Part of me wants Gretzky to hold those records forever, but if OV is going to break it, I hope he gets to 1,000.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793840 is a reply to message #793838 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Mike wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 13:20

This freak is leading the league again as a 36 year old. 1 goal/game 9 games in. He obviously won't maintain this pace, but he will be given every opportunity to pad his stats.

He should be passing Hull in the next few games for 4th place, and barring injury will likely pass Jagr by the end of this season.

I think 40 is a pretty conservative estimate for this season given that he's already at 9 with 73 games left. That would put him at 770. That would leave him behind only Howe (801) and Gretzky's 894.

He doesn't seem to be slowing down much and it's looking more and more likely that one of the sports biggest records will fall.

Part of me wants Gretzky to hold those records forever, but if OV is going to break it, I hope he gets to 1,000.

IT's going to come down to health. If he misses a large chunk of time in the next 1-3 seasons he might miss out because his production drops off. Or if something like a shoulder goes and his release/accuracy suffers that could derail it. A healthy Ovi plays until the record falls imo



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793841 is a reply to message #730408 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Mike Bossy.. until his lower back was destroyed from all the lumber he took in front of the net.
Forced to retire at AGE 30 due to the debilitating pain from his back. You can see the drop off in 1987 before he retired the next season, still managed 38 goals in 63 games.

His goals per game while healthy(1st nine years) was 0.776 gpg , and 0.762 gpg for the career.
Nine consecutive 50+ goal seasons (NHL record) starting from his draft year as a rookie.

Ovie is 0.613 career so far, with only 166 more goals, while playing an extra 7 seasons and 454 games.

Plus Bossy was a playmaker as well, had almost as many assists as goals, 0.735 assists per game. Ovie is more uni-dimensional his assists are only 0.494 per game.

So I'm picking Bossy! icon_nod

1977-78	New York Islanders	NHL	73	53	38	91	
1978-79	New York Islanders	NHL	80	69	57	126	
1979-80	New York Islanders	NHL	75	51	41	92	
1980-81	New York Islanders	NHL	79	68	51	119	
1981-82	New York Islanders	NHL	80	64	83	147	
1982-83	New York Islanders	NHL	79	60	58	118	
1983-84	New York Islanders	NHL	67	51	67	118	
1984-85	New York Islanders	NHL	76	58	59	117	
1985-86	New York Islanders	NHL	80	61	62	123	
1986-87	New York Islanders	NHL	63	38	37	75	

NHL Totals		
Games 752	Goals 573	Assists 553	Pts 1126	




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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793842 is a reply to message #793841 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 16:18

Mike Bossy.. until his lower back was destroyed from all the lumber he took in front of the net.
Forced to retire at AGE 30 due to the debilitating pain from his back. You can see the drop off in 1987 before he retired the next season, still managed 38 goals in 63 games.

His goals per game while healthy(1st nine years) was 0.776 gpg , and 0.762 gpg for the career.
Nine consecutive 50+ goal seasons (NHL record) starting from his draft year as a rookie.

Ovie is 0.613 career so far, with only 166 more goals, while playing an extra 7 seasons and 454 games.

Plus Bossy was a playmaker as well, had almost as many assists as goals, 0.735 assists per game. Ovie is more uni-dimensional his assists are only 0.494 per game.

So I'm picking Bossy! icon_nod

1977-78	New York Islanders	NHL	73	53	38	91	
1978-79	New York Islanders	NHL	80	69	57	126	
1979-80	New York Islanders	NHL	75	51	41	92	
1980-81	New York Islanders	NHL	79	68	51	119	
1981-82	New York Islanders	NHL	80	64	83	147	
1982-83	New York Islanders	NHL	79	60	58	118	
1983-84	New York Islanders	NHL	67	51	67	118	
1984-85	New York Islanders	NHL	76	58	59	117	
1985-86	New York Islanders	NHL	80	61	62	123	
1986-87	New York Islanders	NHL	63	38	37	75	

NHL Totals		
Games 752	Goals 573	Assists 553	Pts 1126	



That’s always the debate. Health is part of the equation. Maybe Lemieux beats some of Gretzky’s totals if he’s healthy, maybe Ovi would be closer if not for lockouts and shortened seasons. Ultimately if he breaks the record he’s the greatest goal scorer of all time, if he doesn’t, it’s still Gretzky.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793843 is a reply to message #793842 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Bossy wasn't even the best goal scorer of his era. 69 goals is super cool and all, but some guy scored 92 one season. I can't remember who did that, but the number is so astonishing I don't even have to look it up. 92 freaking goals.

Of course that was the era where some defensemen couldn't skate backwards and goaltenders weren't allowed to stop pucks, unless it was accidental. OV is far and away the best goal scorer in an era where it's much tougher to score goals. I've got him above players like Bossy, Lemieux, and Gretzky because there's no debate between OV and his peers.

2007–08	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	65	82	1
2008–09	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	56	79	2
2009–10	Sidney Crosby....	Pittsburgh Penguins	51	81	1
2009-10    Steven Stamkos     Tampa Bay Lightning	51	82	1
2010–11	Corey Perry.......	Anaheim Ducks...	50	82	1
2011–12	Steven Stamkos	.....   Tampa Bay Lightning	60	82	2
2012–13	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	32	48	3
2013–14	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	51	78	4
2014–15	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	53	81	5
2015–16	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	50	79	6
2016–17	Sidney Crosby....	Pittsburgh Penguins	44	75	2
2017–18	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	49	82	7
2018–19	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	51	81	8
2019–20	Alexander Ovechkin	Washington Capitals	48	68	9
2019-20    David Pastrnak...	Boston Bruins.....	48	70	1
2020–21	Auston Matthews....	Toronto Maple Leafs	41	52	1

[Updated on: Tue, 02 November 2021 16:43]


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793849 is a reply to message #793843 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 15:39

Bossy wasn't even the best goal scorer of his era. 69 goals is super cool and all, but some guy scored 92 one season. I can't remember who did that, but the number is so astonishing I don't even have to look it up. 92 freaking goals.



Yeah Gretzky was the greatest, tend to take him for granted sometimes when it comes to goal scoring, he has the same number of 50+ goal seasons as Bossy.. Gretz had a GPG avg of 0.838 for his first nine seasons, all with the Oil before going to LA. While in LA his GPG average decreased to 0.456 overall, and 0.393 overall after leaving the Oilers until he retired. He was 0.61 GPG for the entire career.
If Bossy could have had even 5 more years, I think he would've been close to another 250 goals (he hadn't shown any signs of slowing down), and over 800 total.. but he didn't.. just thought I'd add him to the discussion because he often gets overlooked due to his shortened career while in the middle of his peak production.

In comparison, Ovie over his 1st 9 seasons was 0.622 GPG average.

I revise my opinion, Gretz is the best.. but a full career of Bossy would have been amazing!

[Updated on: Tue, 02 November 2021 21:14]


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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793844 is a reply to message #793842 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 15:22

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 16:18

Mike Bossy.. until his lower back was destroyed from all the lumber he took in front of the net.
Forced to retire at AGE 30 due to the debilitating pain from his back. You can see the drop off in 1987 before he retired the next season, still managed 38 goals in 63 games.

His goals per game while healthy(1st nine years) was 0.776 gpg , and 0.762 gpg for the career.
Nine consecutive 50+ goal seasons (NHL record) starting from his draft year as a rookie.

Ovie is 0.613 career so far, with only 166 more goals, while playing an extra 7 seasons and 454 games.

Plus Bossy was a playmaker as well, had almost as many assists as goals, 0.735 assists per game. Ovie is more uni-dimensional his assists are only 0.494 per game.

So I'm picking Bossy! icon_nod

1977-78	New York Islanders	NHL	73	53	38	91	
1978-79	New York Islanders	NHL	80	69	57	126	
1979-80	New York Islanders	NHL	75	51	41	92	
1980-81	New York Islanders	NHL	79	68	51	119	
1981-82	New York Islanders	NHL	80	64	83	147	
1982-83	New York Islanders	NHL	79	60	58	118	
1983-84	New York Islanders	NHL	67	51	67	118	
1984-85	New York Islanders	NHL	76	58	59	117	
1985-86	New York Islanders	NHL	80	61	62	123	
1986-87	New York Islanders	NHL	63	38	37	75	

NHL Totals		
Games 752	Goals 573	Assists 553	Pts 1126	



That’s always the debate. Health is part of the equation. Maybe Lemieux beats some of Gretzky’s totals if he’s healthy, maybe Ovi would be closer if not for lockouts and shortened seasons. Ultimately if he breaks the record he’s the greatest goal scorer of all time, if he doesn’t, it’s still Gretzky.


Ya, I think Gretzky is penalized sometimes in these debates because he wasn't just overpowering goalies with his shot or anything, but the numbers for Gretzky are mind-boggling.

To try and compare somewhat apples to apples, Gretzky's gpg in the first 9 years of his career was 0.838. If you take each player's best 5 year stretch, Bossy's is from 1979-80 to 1982-83, and he scored 312 goals. Gretzky's best 5 year stretch is from 1980-81 to 1984-85 and he scored 378 goals (basically a full season's worth of goals more than Bossy).

In the 8 years where they were both in the NHL, Bossy only topped Gretzky in goals twice (in 80/81 and 85/86), they tied once (79/80) and Gretzky scored more 5 times.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793846 is a reply to message #793844 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 4757
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Goose wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 19:58

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 15:22

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 16:18

Mike Bossy.. until his lower back was destroyed from all the lumber he took in front of the net.
Forced to retire at AGE 30 due to the debilitating pain from his back. You can see the drop off in 1987 before he retired the next season, still managed 38 goals in 63 games.

His goals per game while healthy(1st nine years) was 0.776 gpg , and 0.762 gpg for the career.
Nine consecutive 50+ goal seasons (NHL record) starting from his draft year as a rookie.

Ovie is 0.613 career so far, with only 166 more goals, while playing an extra 7 seasons and 454 games.

Plus Bossy was a playmaker as well, had almost as many assists as goals, 0.735 assists per game. Ovie is more uni-dimensional his assists are only 0.494 per game.

So I'm picking Bossy! icon_nod

1977-78	New York Islanders	NHL	73	53	38	91	
1978-79	New York Islanders	NHL	80	69	57	126	
1979-80	New York Islanders	NHL	75	51	41	92	
1980-81	New York Islanders	NHL	79	68	51	119	
1981-82	New York Islanders	NHL	80	64	83	147	
1982-83	New York Islanders	NHL	79	60	58	118	
1983-84	New York Islanders	NHL	67	51	67	118	
1984-85	New York Islanders	NHL	76	58	59	117	
1985-86	New York Islanders	NHL	80	61	62	123	
1986-87	New York Islanders	NHL	63	38	37	75	

NHL Totals		
Games 752	Goals 573	Assists 553	Pts 1126	



That’s always the debate. Health is part of the equation. Maybe Lemieux beats some of Gretzky’s totals if he’s healthy, maybe Ovi would be closer if not for lockouts and shortened seasons. Ultimately if he breaks the record he’s the greatest goal scorer of all time, if he doesn’t, it’s still Gretzky.


Ya, I think Gretzky is penalized sometimes in these debates because he wasn't just overpowering goalies with his shot or anything, but the numbers for Gretzky are mind-boggling.

To try and compare somewhat apples to apples, Gretzky's gpg in the first 9 years of his career was 0.838. If you take each player's best 5 year stretch, Bossy's is from 1979-80 to 1982-83, and he scored 312 goals. Gretzky's best 5 year stretch is from 1980-81 to 1984-85 and he scored 378 goals (basically a full season's worth of goals more than Bossy).

In the 8 years where they were both in the NHL, Bossy only topped Gretzky in goals twice (in 80/81 and 85/86), they tied once (79/80) and Gretzky scored more 5 times.


Yeah, the Bossy as the best goal scorer ever thing always makes my chuckle. Best shot of all time? Sure, whatever, maybe. OV probably gets that title from me, but it is somewhat subjective, so whatever.

But Bossy as the best goal scorer of all time? Like you point out, people like to point to his goals per game compared to Gretzky, ignoring that with the same number of games played Gretzky was miles ahead, never mind the fact 99 had 4 seasons with more goals than Bossy ever got.

No - Bossy who played in pretty much the same era as Gretzky is not the best goal scorer of all time. He’s definitely top 10, very likely top 5, but the title of best ever is still Gretzky’s for now, but OV’s consistency and longevity in a much tougher era will likely see him regarded as the best once he’s done.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #793845 is a reply to message #793842 ]
Tue, 02 November 2021 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 15:22



That’s always the debate. Health is part of the equation. Maybe Lemieux beats some of Gretzky’s totals if he’s healthy, maybe Ovi would be closer if not for lockouts and shortened seasons. Ultimately if he breaks the record he’s the greatest goal scorer of all time, if he doesn’t, it’s still Gretzky.


I already think he’s the greatest goal scorer to live now. What he has done in this era is more impressive to me. If he gets to 800, I don’t even think it’s much of a debate anymore.

He’s now lead the league in goals an astounding 9 times to Gretzky’s 5 times.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #794617 is a reply to message #793842 ]
Wed, 17 November 2021 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NCREDiBLE  is currently offline NCREDiBLE
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 16:22

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 02 November 2021 16:18

Mike Bossy.. until his lower back was destroyed from all the lumber he took in front of the net.
Forced to retire at AGE 30 due to the debilitating pain from his back. You can see the drop off in 1987 before he retired the next season, still managed 38 goals in 63 games.

His goals per game while healthy(1st nine years) was 0.776 gpg , and 0.762 gpg for the career.
Nine consecutive 50+ goal seasons (NHL record) starting from his draft year as a rookie.

Ovie is 0.613 career so far, with only 166 more goals, while playing an extra 7 seasons and 454 games.

Plus Bossy was a playmaker as well, had almost as many assists as goals, 0.735 assists per game. Ovie is more uni-dimensional his assists are only 0.494 per game.

So I'm picking Bossy! icon_nod

1977-78	New York Islanders	NHL	73	53	38	91	
1978-79	New York Islanders	NHL	80	69	57	126	
1979-80	New York Islanders	NHL	75	51	41	92	
1980-81	New York Islanders	NHL	79	68	51	119	
1981-82	New York Islanders	NHL	80	64	83	147	
1982-83	New York Islanders	NHL	79	60	58	118	
1983-84	New York Islanders	NHL	67	51	67	118	
1984-85	New York Islanders	NHL	76	58	59	117	
1985-86	New York Islanders	NHL	80	61	62	123	
1986-87	New York Islanders	NHL	63	38	37	75	

NHL Totals		
Games 752	Goals 573	Assists 553	Pts 1126	



That’s always the debate. Health is part of the equation. Maybe Lemieux beats some of Gretzky’s totals if he’s healthy, maybe Ovi would be closer if not for lockouts and shortened seasons. Ultimately if he breaks the record he’s the greatest goal scorer of all time, if he doesn’t, it’s still Gretzky.


Fair point however, I then look to how fast each guy did it or do you look at Ovechkin's facing harder competition / better quality of players?



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #794618 is a reply to message #794617 ]
Wed, 17 November 2021 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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if you take quality of players into consideration, then you have to also consider, what kind of player could Gretzky have been if he lived in an era that didn't really have an offseason, as players do nowadays?


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #794622 is a reply to message #794618 ]
Wed, 17 November 2021 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NCREDiBLE  is currently offline NCREDiBLE
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 11:30

if you take quality of players into consideration, then you have to also consider, what kind of player could Gretzky have been if he lived in an era that didn't really have an offseason, as players do nowadays?


Exactly and my belief is he would have still been the greatest, making Ovechkin the #2 imo or GOAT Russian born player.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #794626 is a reply to message #794622 ]
Wed, 17 November 2021 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I think I agree with one of the above. Gretz is the best goal scorer of all time, unless Ovechkin beats his total. simple leader is the winner.


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #794673 is a reply to message #794626 ]
Thu, 18 November 2021 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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In relative terms, no OV goal scoring season has ever been as impressive as a few of Gretzky's.

OV's best relative to his peers was 2007-2008 when he scored 65, 13 more than Kovalchuk's 52 - 25% more than 2nd place.

Gretzky's record setting year when he scored 92, that was 28 more than Bossy's 64, 43.8% more than 2nd place. Even better, 2 years later when he potted 87 and 2nd place Goulet got 56. A 31 goal gap - 55.4% more!

People talk about the crazy scoring in that era - yes it was a bit higher, but Gretzky was just blowing away his peers.

But the most dominating Rocket Richard victory ever (though the trophy didn't actually exist then) was Brett Hull's amazing 1991-1992 season when he scored 86 goals with Steve Yzerman putting up 51. A 35 goal gap. Yzerman had a great goal scoring season and the leader had 68.6% more than him!!! icon_eek

Anyway - objectively, the records currently belong to Gretzky. If OV scores more then he will own the record. But I'm not sure just having the most over a career makes you the greatest.

From a consistency and longevity side, he has surpassed Gartner for sure. Definitely one of the best shooters ever. I see him, Hull, and Bossy as similar kinds of scorers. Gretzky though? He really was one of a kind. Not the fastest, not the hardest shot, not big, not the strongest, but man did he get it done.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #794674 is a reply to message #730408 ]
Thu, 18 November 2021 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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If and when Ovechkin surpasses Gretzky's total, he assumes the title. It's probably the metric that has to be observed given all the variables between eras. I tried looking up goals vs league avg over their careers but I don't know if that stat exists.

Bossy and even Lemieux might have been in the conversation if they had the longevity. They didnt.




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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #801869 is a reply to message #730408 ]
Wed, 16 March 2022 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Ovechkin officially 3rd all time in goals scored, passing Jagr with 767.

Next is Gordie Howe at 801.

Ever since Adam mentioned PEDs its hard not to wonder at this age.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #801873 is a reply to message #801869 ]
Wed, 16 March 2022 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94  is currently offline oilfan94
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:32

Ovechkin officially 3rd all time in goals scored, passing Jagr with 767.

Next is Gordie Howe at 801.

Ever since Adam mentioned PEDs its hard not to wonder at this age.


There are a handful of players I have noticed who somehow have a career renaissance in an older age the past few seasons. I would have no way of knowing if any of them are actually guilty of any PEDs, but I have been more and more suspicious that it is a growing problem that the NHL is turning a blind eye to. IF (big if) Ovechkin is doing it and the NHL suspects it, then I think 100% he would be the reason they don't want to start looking into it more now.

This is one of those things that I wonder if it will get more attention when Bettman is no longer commissioner. There are some things that I do like about Bettman, which I never thought I would say, but at this point I think the NHL really needs someone new in that position.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #801879 is a reply to message #801873 ]
Wed, 16 March 2022 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 10:46

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:32

Ovechkin officially 3rd all time in goals scored, passing Jagr with 767.

Next is Gordie Howe at 801.

Ever since Adam mentioned PEDs its hard not to wonder at this age.


There are a handful of players I have noticed who somehow have a career renaissance in an older age the past few seasons. I would have no way of knowing if any of them are actually guilty of any PEDs, but I have been more and more suspicious that it is a growing problem that the NHL is turning a blind eye to. IF (big if) Ovechkin is doing it and the NHL suspects it, then I think 100% he would be the reason they don't want to start looking into it more now.

This is one of those things that I wonder if it will get more attention when Bettman is no longer commissioner. There are some things that I do like about Bettman, which I never thought I would say, but at this point I think the NHL really needs someone new in that position.


Rod "the Bod" Brind'amour is definitely one guy I'm suspicious of and it bothers me every time I think about 2006. The guy looks to be on a pretty steep decline having scored 12G/38pts in 03/04, hadn't score 30 goals in almost a decade, and then scores 31G/70 pts in 05/06 at the age of 36. And then went on to score 26G/82 pts the next year at the age of 37. Almost 30 points higher than he had been scoring 5 years earlier.

The league scoring more coming out of the lockout might have had something to do with it, but I don't think a lot of guys on the wrong side of 35 were scoring 30 more points than they were pre-lockout.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #801887 is a reply to message #801879 ]
Wed, 16 March 2022 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94  is currently offline oilfan94
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Goose wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 14:04

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 10:46

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:32

Ovechkin officially 3rd all time in goals scored, passing Jagr with 767.

Next is Gordie Howe at 801.

Ever since Adam mentioned PEDs its hard not to wonder at this age.


There are a handful of players I have noticed who somehow have a career renaissance in an older age the past few seasons. I would have no way of knowing if any of them are actually guilty of any PEDs, but I have been more and more suspicious that it is a growing problem that the NHL is turning a blind eye to. IF (big if) Ovechkin is doing it and the NHL suspects it, then I think 100% he would be the reason they don't want to start looking into it more now.

This is one of those things that I wonder if it will get more attention when Bettman is no longer commissioner. There are some things that I do like about Bettman, which I never thought I would say, but at this point I think the NHL really needs someone new in that position.


Rod "the Bod" Brind'amour is definitely one guy I'm suspicious of and it bothers me every time I think about 2006. The guy looks to be on a pretty steep decline having scored 12G/38pts in 03/04, hadn't score 30 goals in almost a decade, and then scores 31G/70 pts in 05/06 at the age of 36. And then went on to score 26G/82 pts the next year at the age of 37. Almost 30 points higher than he had been scoring 5 years earlier.

The league scoring more coming out of the lockout might have had something to do with it, but I don't think a lot of guys on the wrong side of 35 were scoring 30 more points than they were pre-lockout.


I never thought about Brind'Amour much there because, like you said, there was that big scoring bump in 2006 and 2007.

The other player I always think about is Dustin Brown. Huge drop off in 2013-14 and was under 30 points 3 years in a row, then a little bump up to 36 and suddenly 61 points for a career high at age 34. He has slowly declined again, but still not as low as he was from ages 28-32. I suppose you could make the argument that he was used differently under Sutter, but that is a big decline and a big jump to blame on the coach.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #802045 is a reply to message #801887 ]
Thu, 17 March 2022 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:05

Goose wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 14:04

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 10:46

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:32

Ovechkin officially 3rd all time in goals scored, passing Jagr with 767.

Next is Gordie Howe at 801.

Ever since Adam mentioned PEDs its hard not to wonder at this age.


There are a handful of players I have noticed who somehow have a career renaissance in an older age the past few seasons. I would have no way of knowing if any of them are actually guilty of any PEDs, but I have been more and more suspicious that it is a growing problem that the NHL is turning a blind eye to. IF (big if) Ovechkin is doing it and the NHL suspects it, then I think 100% he would be the reason they don't want to start looking into it more now.

This is one of those things that I wonder if it will get more attention when Bettman is no longer commissioner. There are some things that I do like about Bettman, which I never thought I would say, but at this point I think the NHL really needs someone new in that position.


Rod "the Bod" Brind'amour is definitely one guy I'm suspicious of and it bothers me every time I think about 2006. The guy looks to be on a pretty steep decline having scored 12G/38pts in 03/04, hadn't score 30 goals in almost a decade, and then scores 31G/70 pts in 05/06 at the age of 36. And then went on to score 26G/82 pts the next year at the age of 37. Almost 30 points higher than he had been scoring 5 years earlier.

The league scoring more coming out of the lockout might have had something to do with it, but I don't think a lot of guys on the wrong side of 35 were scoring 30 more points than they were pre-lockout.


I never thought about Brind'Amour much there because, like you said, there was that big scoring bump in 2006 and 2007.

The other player I always think about is Dustin Brown. Huge drop off in 2013-14 and was under 30 points 3 years in a row, then a little bump up to 36 and suddenly 61 points for a career high at age 34. He has slowly declined again, but still not as low as he was from ages 28-32. I suppose you could make the argument that he was used differently under Sutter, but that is a big decline and a big jump to blame on the coach.


Let's not forget Shawn Horcoff as well.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #804381 is a reply to message #802045 ]
Thu, 21 April 2022 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NCREDiBLE  is currently offline NCREDiBLE
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 17 March 2022 22:00

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:05

Goose wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 14:04

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 10:46

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:32

Ovechkin officially 3rd all time in goals scored, passing Jagr with 767.

Next is Gordie Howe at 801.

Ever since Adam mentioned PEDs its hard not to wonder at this age.


There are a handful of players I have noticed who somehow have a career renaissance in an older age the past few seasons. I would have no way of knowing if any of them are actually guilty of any PEDs, but I have been more and more suspicious that it is a growing problem that the NHL is turning a blind eye to. IF (big if) Ovechkin is doing it and the NHL suspects it, then I think 100% he would be the reason they don't want to start looking into it more now.

This is one of those things that I wonder if it will get more attention when Bettman is no longer commissioner. There are some things that I do like about Bettman, which I never thought I would say, but at this point I think the NHL really needs someone new in that position.


Rod "the Bod" Brind'amour is definitely one guy I'm suspicious of and it bothers me every time I think about 2006. The guy looks to be on a pretty steep decline having scored 12G/38pts in 03/04, hadn't score 30 goals in almost a decade, and then scores 31G/70 pts in 05/06 at the age of 36. And then went on to score 26G/82 pts the next year at the age of 37. Almost 30 points higher than he had been scoring 5 years earlier.

The league scoring more coming out of the lockout might have had something to do with it, but I don't think a lot of guys on the wrong side of 35 were scoring 30 more points than they were pre-lockout.


I never thought about Brind'Amour much there because, like you said, there was that big scoring bump in 2006 and 2007.

The other player I always think about is Dustin Brown. Huge drop off in 2013-14 and was under 30 points 3 years in a row, then a little bump up to 36 and suddenly 61 points for a career high at age 34. He has slowly declined again, but still not as low as he was from ages 28-32. I suppose you could make the argument that he was used differently under Sutter, but that is a big decline and a big jump to blame on the coach.


Let's not forget Shawn Horcoff as well.


On NHL 14 I once scored 76 goals with Shawn Horcoff on be a gm mode lmao

Seriously tho, can Ovechkin hit 50 again next year and hold the record to himself? Kind of shocked with how Bossy & Gretzky owned the league that they didn't get 50 over 10 times. Imagine if Lemieux was healthy too I'm sure he would have had some hard numbers to break.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #804383 is a reply to message #804381 ]
Thu, 21 April 2022 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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or how many Jagr could have put up if he played his whole career in the NHL.


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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #804385 is a reply to message #804381 ]
Thu, 21 April 2022 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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NCREDiBLE wrote on Thu, 21 April 2022 14:28


On NHL 14 I once scored 76 goals with Shawn Horcoff on be a gm mode lmao

Seriously tho, can Ovechkin hit 50 again next year and hold the record to himself? Kind of shocked with how Bossy & Gretzky owned the league that they didn't get 50 over 10 times. Imagine if Lemieux was healthy too I'm sure he would have had some hard numbers to break.


I think the biggest thing is health for all those players.

Bossy only played 10 seasons and only missed scoring 50 in the last one - even there, he had 38 in 63 games so pretty solid pace, even with his body breaking down.

Gretzky, despite being a pass-first player, scored over 50 his first eight seasons, and he too missed finally because of injury. He had 40 goals in 64 games in Season Nine (his last with Edmonton). Up until that point he's extremely durable and misses virtually no time - just 8 games in 8 seasons. After that, he never played a full season again until 1996-97. He was always a great player in his career, but Gary Suter did him significant damage with the dirty hit in the 1991 Canada Cup and he wasn't really the same after that. Still a brilliant playmaker, but the scoring numbers drop and don't recover. Gary Suter was the worst.

Mario, well, obviously, he had cancer and back issues. Just six 50 goal campaigns and missed 50 in his first two seasons which I'm definitely pointing out to my "Mario-is-the-best-scorer-ever" friends next time this comes up...

Also, completely unrelated sidenote from looking this stuff up on hockeydb. Saw this on the side of the screen and it made me laugh:

Quote:

Similar Players
Not the Wayne Gretzky you're looking for? We have one other player with a similar name.
Wayne Grotski (AJHL) [1974-1978]



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #804386 is a reply to message #804381 ]
Thu, 21 April 2022 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0  is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
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NCREDiBLE wrote on Thu, 21 April 2022 14:28

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 17 March 2022 22:00

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:05

Goose wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 14:04

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 10:46

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:32

Ovechkin officially 3rd all time in goals scored, passing Jagr with 767.

Next is Gordie Howe at 801.

Ever since Adam mentioned PEDs its hard not to wonder at this age.


There are a handful of players I have noticed who somehow have a career renaissance in an older age the past few seasons. I would have no way of knowing if any of them are actually guilty of any PEDs, but I have been more and more suspicious that it is a growing problem that the NHL is turning a blind eye to. IF (big if) Ovechkin is doing it and the NHL suspects it, then I think 100% he would be the reason they don't want to start looking into it more now.

This is one of those things that I wonder if it will get more attention when Bettman is no longer commissioner. There are some things that I do like about Bettman, which I never thought I would say, but at this point I think the NHL really needs someone new in that position.


Rod "the Bod" Brind'amour is definitely one guy I'm suspicious of and it bothers me every time I think about 2006. The guy looks to be on a pretty steep decline having scored 12G/38pts in 03/04, hadn't score 30 goals in almost a decade, and then scores 31G/70 pts in 05/06 at the age of 36. And then went on to score 26G/82 pts the next year at the age of 37. Almost 30 points higher than he had been scoring 5 years earlier.

The league scoring more coming out of the lockout might have had something to do with it, but I don't think a lot of guys on the wrong side of 35 were scoring 30 more points than they were pre-lockout.


I never thought about Brind'Amour much there because, like you said, there was that big scoring bump in 2006 and 2007.

The other player I always think about is Dustin Brown. Huge drop off in 2013-14 and was under 30 points 3 years in a row, then a little bump up to 36 and suddenly 61 points for a career high at age 34. He has slowly declined again, but still not as low as he was from ages 28-32. I suppose you could make the argument that he was used differently under Sutter, but that is a big decline and a big jump to blame on the coach.


Let's not forget Shawn Horcoff as well.


On NHL 14 I once scored 76 goals with Shawn Horcoff on be a gm mode lmao

Seriously tho, can Ovechkin hit 50 again next year and hold the record to himself? Kind of shocked with how Bossy & Gretzky owned the league that they didn't get 50 over 10 times. Imagine if Lemieux was healthy too I'm sure he would have had some hard numbers to break.

I once accomplished a similar feat where I broke all NHL single season scoring records with Tony Salmelainen. Was NHL 03 or 04.



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 Re: Is Ovechkin the Greatest Goal Scorer of All Time? [message #804392 is a reply to message #804386 ]
Thu, 21 April 2022 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Thu, 21 April 2022 16:36

NCREDiBLE wrote on Thu, 21 April 2022 14:28

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 17 March 2022 22:00

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:05

Goose wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 14:04

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 10:46

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 March 2022 13:32

Ovechkin officially 3rd all time in goals scored, passing Jagr with 767.

Next is Gordie Howe at 801.

Ever since Adam mentioned PEDs its hard not to wonder at this age.


There are a handful of players I have noticed who somehow have a career renaissance in an older age the past few seasons. I would have no way of knowing if any of them are actually guilty of any PEDs, but I have been more and more suspicious that it is a growing problem that the NHL is turning a blind eye to. IF (big if) Ovechkin is doing it and the NHL suspects it, then I think 100% he would be the reason they don't want to start looking into it more now.

This is one of those things that I wonder if it will get more attention when Bettman is no longer commissioner. There are some things that I do like about Bettman, which I never thought I would say, but at this point I think the NHL really needs someone new in that position.


Rod "the Bod" Brind'amour is definitely one guy I'm suspicious of and it bothers me every time I think about 2006. The guy looks to be on a pretty steep decline having scored 12G/38pts in 03/04, hadn't score 30 goals in almost a decade, and then scores 31G/70 pts in 05/06 at the age of 36. And then went on to score 26G/82 pts the next year at the age of 37. Almost 30 points higher than he had been scoring 5 years earlier.

The league scoring more coming out of the lockout might have had something to do with it, but I don't think a lot of guys on the wrong side of 35 were scoring 30 more points than they were pre-lockout.


I never thought about Brind'Amour much there because, like you said, there was that big scoring bump in 2006 and 2007.

The other player I always think about is Dustin Brown. Huge drop off in 2013-14 and was under 30 points 3 years in a row, then a little bump up to 36 and suddenly 61 points for a career high at age 34. He has slowly declined again, but still not as low as he was from ages 28-32. I suppose you could make the argument that he was used differently under Sutter, but that is a big decline and a big jump to blame on the coach.


Let's not forget Shawn Horcoff as well.


On NHL 14 I once scored 76 goals with Shawn Horcoff on be a gm mode lmao

Seriously tho, can Ovechkin hit 50 again next year and hold the record to himself? Kind of shocked with how Bossy & Gretzky owned the league that they didn't get 50 over 10 times. Imagine if Lemieux was healthy too I'm sure he would have had some hard numbers to break.

I once accomplished a similar feat where I broke all NHL single season scoring records with Tony Salmelainen. Was NHL 03 or 04.


Guy was stupid fast in that game.



Clean house or bust

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