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 The Oilers' top players [message #717746]
Fri, 17 August 2018 12:12 Go to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17628
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Quick question for the group here. Who do you see as the Oilers' top 4 forwards and top 4 defencemen right now?

For me:

F1. McDavid
F2. Draisaitl
F3. Nugent-Hopkins
F4. Lucic (although Strome & Puljujarvi are close here now)

D1. Klefbom
D2. Larsson
D3. Nurse
D4. Sekera (even injured, I put him ahead of Russell & Benning)

I have a point here, but I think it's worth polling the room first before I get in to my discussion...

[Updated on: Fri, 17 August 2018 12:17]


"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717747 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Fri, 17 August 2018 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PoolParty  is currently offline PoolParty
Messages: 192
Registered: November 2009
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

F1. McDavid
F2. Draisaitl
F3. Nugent-Hopkins
F4. Kharia

D1. Klefbom
D2. Larsson
D3. Nurse
D4. Russell



This forum has turned into a pessimistic cesspool of bitching and whining about the same topics consistently.

#Adam #Kr55 #CrusaderPi #inverno76

#RDOilerfan is possibly reformed, time will tell.

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717754 is a reply to message #717747 ]
Fri, 17 August 2018 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 2078
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

2 Cups

McD
Drai
Nuge
Lucic

Larsson
Sekera (when healthy)
Klef
Nurse



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717755 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Fri, 17 August 2018 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
Messages: 425
Registered: January 2011

No Cups

Are talking straight skill, or the extent to which they succeed in their role?

Skill:

McDavid
Draisaitl
Nuge
Puljujarvi

Klefbom
Larsson
Nurse
Sekera (when healthy, otherwise Benning)


Role:

McDavid
Draisaitl
Nuge
Strome

Larsson
Nurse
Klefbom
Benning



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717756 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Fri, 17 August 2018 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 3492
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

3 Cups

McDavid
Draisaitl
Nugent-Hopkins
Strome

Klefbom
Larsson
Nurse
Benning



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717757 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Sat, 18 August 2018 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2853
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

McDavid
Draisaitl
RNH
Rieder

Klefbom
Larsson
Nurse
Sekera



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717758 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Sat, 18 August 2018 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 21269
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Based on last year:

McDavid
Draisaitl
Nugent-Hopkins
Strome

Nurse
Klefbom
Larsson
Russell



What we really really need it to be right now.

McDavid
Draisaitl
Nugent-Hopkins
Puljujarvi/Lucic tied

Klefbom
Larsson
Nurse
Benning



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717761 is a reply to message #717758 ]
Sat, 18 August 2018 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17628
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Nothing surprising here. Pretty much across the board, the top three forwards are 97, 29, 93 and the top defence are 77, 6, 25. That's how I expected this would shake out. Incidentally, there's only six players on the Oilers now that were not acquired in the Chiarelli era:

McDavid
Draisaitl
Nugent-Hopkins
Klefbom
Nurse
Khaira

(You could possibly include Willam Lagesson & Tyler Vesel in that too if you wanted to go to the AHL group too)

The amazing thing about that even with all the moves that he's made - the core of the team is 5/6 made up of those players were Oilers before Chiarelli came on board (yes, technically we hadn't drafted McDavid yet, but it's not like it was in doubt at all that he was going to be an Oiler). The only member of that group he did acquire came with a massive overpay on the part of the GM and delivered a guy who while he is a core player for the Oilers, he's never going to be a star player - just a lunch pail player.

So three years later, how much improvement has their actually been in the supporting cast? We still have extremely limited depth scoring, but much worse wings. Slightly better defence, a better starting goalie, and no proven back-up 'tender.

We enter the year with only a single year left on the contract for our goalie too...leaving another potentially massive hole for our incompetent management to patch.

It's depressing to think that we had this core three years ago, and we're no closer to a championship, with the general manager actually suggesting that he doesn't expect us to be a conference semi-finalist next year!?

The crazy thing about all the suckiness is that the rebuild actually worked in restocking the cupboards for the Oilers and giving us a core that a team could hope to build around. I'd feel comfortable with the comparison putting up that group of players against the Kane/Toews/Hossa/Keith/Seabrook group that led the Blackhawks to three Cups...and yet the Blackhawks were already Champions by this point and consistent contenders and the Oilers management is managing expectations of the fanbase, rather than expecting success...

It's a bad sign.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717766 is a reply to message #717761 ]
Sun, 19 August 2018 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
Messages: 425
Registered: January 2011

No Cups

Adam wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 15:38

Nothing surprising here. Pretty much across the board, the top three forwards are 97, 29, 93 and the top defence are 77, 6, 25. That's how I expected this would shake out. Incidentally, there's only six players on the Oilers now that were not acquired in the Chiarelli era:

McDavid
Draisaitl
Nugent-Hopkins
Klefbom
Nurse
Khaira

(You could possibly include Willam Lagesson & Tyler Vesel in that too if you wanted to go to the AHL group too)

The amazing thing about that even with all the moves that he's made - the core of the team is 5/6 made up of those players were Oilers before Chiarelli came on board (yes, technically we hadn't drafted McDavid yet, but it's not like it was in doubt at all that he was going to be an Oiler). The only member of that group he did acquire came with a massive overpay on the part of the GM and delivered a guy who while he is a core player for the Oilers, he's never going to be a star player - just a lunch pail player.

So three years later, how much improvement has their actually been in the supporting cast? We still have extremely limited depth scoring, but much worse wings. Slightly better defence, a better starting goalie, and no proven back-up 'tender.

We enter the year with only a single year left on the contract for our goalie too...leaving another potentially massive hole for our incompetent management to patch.

It's depressing to think that we had this core three years ago, and we're no closer to a championship, with the general manager actually suggesting that he doesn't expect us to be a conference semi-finalist next year!?

The crazy thing about all the suckiness is that the rebuild actually worked in restocking the cupboards for the Oilers and giving us a core that a team could hope to build around. I'd feel comfortable with the comparison putting up that group of players against the Kane/Toews/Hossa/Keith/Seabrook group that led the Blackhawks to three Cups...and yet the Blackhawks were already Champions by this point and consistent contenders and the Oilers management is managing expectations of the fanbase, rather than expecting success...

It's a bad sign.


Not to mention three additional years of development.

It was pretty clear to everyone when PC came in that all he needed to do was sort out the goaltending situation, find a top pairing D-man, and round out the bottom of the roster. Now, I can understand moving a top FW talent for a top D talent (Hall was an overpay, though I am a Larsson fan), but to use top end FW talent to fill out the bottom of the roster, despite having cap room to keep the top end FW talent, is terrible management. Ebs for Strome, 16th for Reinhart, Maroon for depth picks... it all points to PC getting hired with the intention of doing a rebuild. I think he came in with the idea that in order to build a winner he would have to create a clone of the Bruins, instead of looking at where the league was heading and building around that. Signs Lucic (big & tough former Bruin), which was a huge gamble as he was not needed on the roster (our top 6 FW group was strong). Gives Russell (tough "shut down" type typical of the Bruins) a 4x4 deal with a NMC that makes him a boat anchor. Overpays, overvalues, and over-projects nearly every depth player (why he was eventually fired from Boston). Disregards the need for a proven NHL backup (Rask had ~50GP before 10-11, and I suspect PC so badly wanted Brossoit to be his next Rask).

Overall, It seems the team has always been a trend chaser instead of projecting into the future, and because of that we keep treading water. There is nothing inherently wrong with trend chasing if your team has a foundation that keeps it in the hunt year-after-year, but we are sitting behind the pack, and the only way to make up ground is to build for the league of tomorrow. Sadly, the core we had in place was exactly what we needed to make up that ground (save for the aforementioned tweaks), but PC squandered it.

I will, however, concede that PC et al. have found their way into three solid pieces of the future (Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Bouchard) that will put us into roughly the same position we were in when he took over (on the cusp of a competitive team built around the future of the game). But Puljujarvi and Yamamoto is an inferior duo to Hall and Ebs, and although we come out ahead with Bouchard, astute trading could have landed us a similar RHD without giving up one of Hall/Ebs. Thus even if we got a weaker RHD than the max potential of Bouchard, we would likely still have come out ahead with the Hall-Ebs duo, plus we'd have avoided wasting 3 to 6 years.

PC's whole tenure reeks of an attempt to built the Bruins 2.0, and given what we know about the OBC and how they think, I believe they were fully on board with this. Dellow only spent a year in an analytics role, then was given an "adjusted role" in summer 2015, then no longer employed by summer 2016. If I had to speculate, he was probably pushing hard against a lot of what PC and the OBC were thinking, and was cast aside because of it.

Moral of the story: until PC and the entire OBC is gone (or has a tectonic shift in thinking and a massive ego reduction), this team will flounder; the only thing we can do is sit here and imagine what path into failure they will take this time around.



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717778 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Mon, 20 August 2018 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5733
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 12:12

Quick question for the group here. Who do you see as the Oilers' top 4 forwards and top 4 defencemen right now?

For me:

F1. McDavid
F2. Draisaitl
F3. Nugent-Hopkins
F4. Lucic (although Strome & Puljujarvi are close here now)

D1. Klefbom
D2. Larsson
D3. Nurse
D4. Sekera (even injured, I put him ahead of Russell & Benning)

I have a point here, but I think it's worth polling the room first before I get in to my discussion...


Agree with everything but Sekera, because even a d-man with skills if he's chronically unavailable due to injury rockets down on the depth chart.



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717969 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Mon, 27 August 2018 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 8225
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

F1. McDavid
F2. Draisaitl
F3. Nugent-Hopkins
F4. Puljujarvi

D1. Nurse
D2. Larsson
D3. Klefbom
D4. Russell



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717981 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Mon, 27 August 2018 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
Messages: 2545
Registered: March 2007

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 17 August 2018 12:12

Quick question for the group here. Who do you see as the Oilers' top 4 forwards and top 4 defencemen right now?

For me:

F1. McDavid
F2. Draisaitl
F3. Nugent-Hopkins
F4. Lucic (although Strome & Puljujarvi are close here now)

D1. Klefbom
D2. Larsson
D3. Nurse
D4. Sekera (even injured, I put him ahead of Russell & Benning)

I have a point here, but I think it's worth polling the room first before I get in to my discussion...

Me:

F1. McDavid
F2. Draisaitl
F3. Nugent-Hopkins
F4. Puljujarvi

D1. Larsson
D2. Klefbom
D3. Nurse
D4. Bouchard (yep)

I have no faith in our defensive units besides the 4 I listed. Klefbom drop down because if his shoulder is bummed then he's not reliable and oft-injured. Larsson has been stellar and while he was messed up because his family issues he sagged a bit, he was better than Klefbom on most nights. The only logical choice is Bouchard who should not be on this team at all, but he's a blue chipper that should be on the team in 2 to 3 years time... but I fear like most Oilers things, they rush him.

JP I certainly hope takes a giant leap forward. His size and his ability on the skates is right there.. he just needs to know how to use it. With great power comes great responsibility.




The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717982 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Mon, 27 August 2018 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17628
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Apparently the Hockey News believes that D1 is Darnell Nurse:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /darnell-nurse-ranked-as-27th-best-out-of-31-no-1-national-h ockey-league-defencemen
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/a-ranking-of-the-31-n hl-teams-no-1-defenseman-in-2018-19

They also believe that among D1s, there's only 4 teams worse off - although putting the guy most here have ranked third among Oilers d-men is probably handicapping the team a bit. I'd think that Klefbom at least moves you past Chris Tanev and the Vancouver Canucks...

They really don't say a lot about him:

Quote:

27. Darnell Nurse, Edmonton Oilers
A tough customer who was one of the brighter lights in a dark season for Edmonton last year.


The Journal's article looks hopelessly optimistic - almost as if Nurse was the 27th best defenceman in the league. They clarify that in the article at least.

Some other fun things? Is Morgan Rielly really better than Kris Letang? Dougie Hamilton's ranked really high for someone who doesn't even go bar-hopping! Cam Fowler the best Duck defenceman? Would you pick Subban over Josi (that one is pretty close for me)?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #717984 is a reply to message #717982 ]
Mon, 27 August 2018 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 21269
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 12:41

Apparently the Hockey News believes that D1 is Darnell Nurse:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /darnell-nurse-ranked-as-27th-best-out-of-31-no-1-national-h ockey-league-defencemen
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/a-ranking-of-the-31-n hl-teams-no-1-defenseman-in-2018-19

They also believe that among D1s, there's only 4 teams worse off - although putting the guy most here have ranked third among Oilers d-men is probably handicapping the team a bit. I'd think that Klefbom at least moves you past Chris Tanev and the Vancouver Canucks...

They really don't say a lot about him:

Quote:

27. Darnell Nurse, Edmonton Oilers
A tough customer who was one of the brighter lights in a dark season for Edmonton last year.


The Journal's article looks hopelessly optimistic - almost as if Nurse was the 27th best defenceman in the league. They clarify that in the article at least.

Some other fun things? Is Morgan Rielly really better than Kris Letang? Dougie Hamilton's ranked really high for someone who doesn't even go bar-hopping! Cam Fowler the best Duck defenceman? Would you pick Subban over Josi (that one is pretty close for me)?


Nurse may well have been our #1D last year. Actually, I guess I put him #1 on my list :)

How much is that really saying? Think it says lots of guys had rough seasons on the D for our team.

I guess the article is kind of saying we had the 27th best D group in the NHL last year, which is reasonable.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718002 is a reply to message #717984 ]
Mon, 27 August 2018 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 8225
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 11:45

Adam wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 12:41

Apparently the Hockey News believes that D1 is Darnell Nurse:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /darnell-nurse-ranked-as-27th-best-out-of-31-no-1-national-h ockey-league-defencemen
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/a-ranking-of-the-31-n hl-teams-no-1-defenseman-in-2018-19

They also believe that among D1s, there's only 4 teams worse off - although putting the guy most here have ranked third among Oilers d-men is probably handicapping the team a bit. I'd think that Klefbom at least moves you past Chris Tanev and the Vancouver Canucks...

They really don't say a lot about him:

Quote:

27. Darnell Nurse, Edmonton Oilers
A tough customer who was one of the brighter lights in a dark season for Edmonton last year.


The Journal's article looks hopelessly optimistic - almost as if Nurse was the 27th best defenceman in the league. They clarify that in the article at least.

Some other fun things? Is Morgan Rielly really better than Kris Letang? Dougie Hamilton's ranked really high for someone who doesn't even go bar-hopping! Cam Fowler the best Duck defenceman? Would you pick Subban over Josi (that one is pretty close for me)?


Nurse may well have been our #1D last year. Actually, I guess I put him #1 on my list :)

How much is that really saying? Think it says lots of guys had rough seasons on the D for our team.

I guess the article is kind of saying we had the 27th best D group in the NHL last year, which is reasonable.


I agree with you on Nurse, I think he really turns a corner this year with the coaching of Yawney, he's the best skater of all the D, toughest, meanest (Larsson may be a tie), has a good shot, used to run the PP in junior, but not given much opportunity on it so far by Mac, maybe that changes this year with new coaching. I think he'll surprise a few people.

I put Larsson ahead of K-bomb, because IMO K-bomb was awful last year, and I don't think it was all because of his shoulder injury, as many hope it was. I'm afraid what you saw is what he might be... I hope for the best with him too .. but don't be surprised if K-bombs needle doesn't move. I feel the same about Benning, an underwhelming outcome.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718144 is a reply to message #718002 ]
Fri, 31 August 2018 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5733
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 18:21

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 11:45

Adam wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 12:41

Apparently the Hockey News believes that D1 is Darnell Nurse:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /darnell-nurse-ranked-as-27th-best-out-of-31-no-1-national-h ockey-league-defencemen
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/a-ranking-of-the-31-n hl-teams-no-1-defenseman-in-2018-19

They also believe that among D1s, there's only 4 teams worse off - although putting the guy most here have ranked third among Oilers d-men is probably handicapping the team a bit. I'd think that Klefbom at least moves you past Chris Tanev and the Vancouver Canucks...

They really don't say a lot about him:

Quote:

27. Darnell Nurse, Edmonton Oilers
A tough customer who was one of the brighter lights in a dark season for Edmonton last year.


The Journal's article looks hopelessly optimistic - almost as if Nurse was the 27th best defenceman in the league. They clarify that in the article at least.

Some other fun things? Is Morgan Rielly really better than Kris Letang? Dougie Hamilton's ranked really high for someone who doesn't even go bar-hopping! Cam Fowler the best Duck defenceman? Would you pick Subban over Josi (that one is pretty close for me)?


Nurse may well have been our #1D last year. Actually, I guess I put him #1 on my list :)

How much is that really saying? Think it says lots of guys had rough seasons on the D for our team.

I guess the article is kind of saying we had the 27th best D group in the NHL last year, which is reasonable.


I agree with you on Nurse, I think he really turns a corner this year with the coaching of Yawney, he's the best skater of all the D, toughest, meanest (Larsson may be a tie), has a good shot, used to run the PP in junior, but not given much opportunity on it so far by Mac, maybe that changes this year with new coaching. I think he'll surprise a few people.

I put Larsson ahead of K-bomb, because IMO K-bomb was awful last year, and I don't think it was all because of his shoulder injury, as many hope it was. I'm afraid what you saw is what he might be... I hope for the best with him too .. but don't be surprised if K-bombs needle doesn't move. I feel the same about Benning, an underwhelming outcome.


It makes you wonder about the self-image of players, young D in particular, and how they see themselves as a player in the pecking order of their team and in the league as their careers progress. I wonder if Klefbom signing a long term deal for middle pairing money basically indicates that that's where he sees himself in terms of career, and whether that self-image puts limits on his development?



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718150 is a reply to message #718144 ]
Fri, 31 August 2018 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 8225
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 31 August 2018 14:20

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 18:21

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 11:45

Adam wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 12:41

Apparently the Hockey News believes that D1 is Darnell Nurse:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /darnell-nurse-ranked-as-27th-best-out-of-31-no-1-national-h ockey-league-defencemen
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/a-ranking-of-the-31-n hl-teams-no-1-defenseman-in-2018-19

They also believe that among D1s, there's only 4 teams worse off - although putting the guy most here have ranked third among Oilers d-men is probably handicapping the team a bit. I'd think that Klefbom at least moves you past Chris Tanev and the Vancouver Canucks...

They really don't say a lot about him:

Quote:

27. Darnell Nurse, Edmonton Oilers
A tough customer who was one of the brighter lights in a dark season for Edmonton last year.


The Journal's article looks hopelessly optimistic - almost as if Nurse was the 27th best defenceman in the league. They clarify that in the article at least.

Some other fun things? Is Morgan Rielly really better than Kris Letang? Dougie Hamilton's ranked really high for someone who doesn't even go bar-hopping! Cam Fowler the best Duck defenceman? Would you pick Subban over Josi (that one is pretty close for me)?


Nurse may well have been our #1D last year. Actually, I guess I put him #1 on my list :)

How much is that really saying? Think it says lots of guys had rough seasons on the D for our team.

I guess the article is kind of saying we had the 27th best D group in the NHL last year, which is reasonable.


I agree with you on Nurse, I think he really turns a corner this year with the coaching of Yawney, he's the best skater of all the D, toughest, meanest (Larsson may be a tie), has a good shot, used to run the PP in junior, but not given much opportunity on it so far by Mac, maybe that changes this year with new coaching. I think he'll surprise a few people.

I put Larsson ahead of K-bomb, because IMO K-bomb was awful last year, and I don't think it was all because of his shoulder injury, as many hope it was. I'm afraid what you saw is what he might be... I hope for the best with him too .. but don't be surprised if K-bombs needle doesn't move. I feel the same about Benning, an underwhelming outcome.


It makes you wonder about the self-image of players, young D in particular, and how they see themselves as a player in the pecking order of their team and in the league as their careers progress. I wonder if Klefbom signing a long term deal for middle pairing money basically indicates that that's where he sees himself in terms of career, and whether that self-image puts limits on his development?


You might be right, the most important trait of great players is they are always trying to be better.. their drive to succeed is through the roof.. can't achieve high goals if you don't think you are good enough..
But another point to consider is the top Swedes seem to care less about squeezing out the last drops out of their their contract potential.

All that said K-bomb is a big question for me. His shoulder is good so no excuses. this time.
Lots of players on this team will prove their NHL value one way or another this year.



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718151 is a reply to message #718150 ]
Fri, 31 August 2018 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 31 August 2018 18:50

K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 31 August 2018 14:20

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 18:21

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 11:45

Adam wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 12:41

Apparently the Hockey News believes that D1 is Darnell Nurse:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /darnell-nurse-ranked-as-27th-best-out-of-31-no-1-national-h ockey-league-defencemen
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/a-ranking-of-the-31-n hl-teams-no-1-defenseman-in-2018-19

They also believe that among D1s, there's only 4 teams worse off - although putting the guy most here have ranked third among Oilers d-men is probably handicapping the team a bit. I'd think that Klefbom at least moves you past Chris Tanev and the Vancouver Canucks...

They really don't say a lot about him:

Quote:

27. Darnell Nurse, Edmonton Oilers
A tough customer who was one of the brighter lights in a dark season for Edmonton last year.


The Journal's article looks hopelessly optimistic - almost as if Nurse was the 27th best defenceman in the league. They clarify that in the article at least.

Some other fun things? Is Morgan Rielly really better than Kris Letang? Dougie Hamilton's ranked really high for someone who doesn't even go bar-hopping! Cam Fowler the best Duck defenceman? Would you pick Subban over Josi (that one is pretty close for me)?


Nurse may well have been our #1D last year. Actually, I guess I put him #1 on my list :)

How much is that really saying? Think it says lots of guys had rough seasons on the D for our team.

I guess the article is kind of saying we had the 27th best D group in the NHL last year, which is reasonable.


I agree with you on Nurse, I think he really turns a corner this year with the coaching of Yawney, he's the best skater of all the D, toughest, meanest (Larsson may be a tie), has a good shot, used to run the PP in junior, but not given much opportunity on it so far by Mac, maybe that changes this year with new coaching. I think he'll surprise a few people.

I put Larsson ahead of K-bomb, because IMO K-bomb was awful last year, and I don't think it was all because of his shoulder injury, as many hope it was. I'm afraid what you saw is what he might be... I hope for the best with him too .. but don't be surprised if K-bombs needle doesn't move. I feel the same about Benning, an underwhelming outcome.


It makes you wonder about the self-image of players, young D in particular, and how they see themselves as a player in the pecking order of their team and in the league as their careers progress. I wonder if Klefbom signing a long term deal for middle pairing money basically indicates that that's where he sees himself in terms of career, and whether that self-image puts limits on his development?


You might be right, the most important trait of great players is they are always trying to be better.. their drive to succeed is through the roof.. can't achieve high goals if you don't think you are good enough..
But another point to consider is the top Swedes seem to care less about squeezing out the last drops out of their their contract potential.

All that said K-bomb is a big question for me. His shoulder is good so no excuses. this time.
Lots of players on this team will prove their NHL value one way or another this year.


I agree on the points about great players and striving to be better but have a question about the bolded.
Do you mean they dont look to get top dollar and more often take team friendly deals?



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718153 is a reply to message #718151 ]
Sat, 01 September 2018 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5733
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 31 August 2018 19:12

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 31 August 2018 18:50

K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 31 August 2018 14:20

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 18:21

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 11:45

Adam wrote on Mon, 27 August 2018 12:41

Apparently the Hockey News believes that D1 is Darnell Nurse:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /darnell-nurse-ranked-as-27th-best-out-of-31-no-1-national-h ockey-league-defencemen
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/a-ranking-of-the-31-n hl-teams-no-1-defenseman-in-2018-19

They also believe that among D1s, there's only 4 teams worse off - although putting the guy most here have ranked third among Oilers d-men is probably handicapping the team a bit. I'd think that Klefbom at least moves you past Chris Tanev and the Vancouver Canucks...

They really don't say a lot about him:

Quote:

27. Darnell Nurse, Edmonton Oilers
A tough customer who was one of the brighter lights in a dark season for Edmonton last year.


The Journal's article looks hopelessly optimistic - almost as if Nurse was the 27th best defenceman in the league. They clarify that in the article at least.

Some other fun things? Is Morgan Rielly really better than Kris Letang? Dougie Hamilton's ranked really high for someone who doesn't even go bar-hopping! Cam Fowler the best Duck defenceman? Would you pick Subban over Josi (that one is pretty close for me)?


Nurse may well have been our #1D last year. Actually, I guess I put him #1 on my list :)

How much is that really saying? Think it says lots of guys had rough seasons on the D for our team.

I guess the article is kind of saying we had the 27th best D group in the NHL last year, which is reasonable.


I agree with you on Nurse, I think he really turns a corner this year with the coaching of Yawney, he's the best skater of all the D, toughest, meanest (Larsson may be a tie), has a good shot, used to run the PP in junior, but not given much opportunity on it so far by Mac, maybe that changes this year with new coaching. I think he'll surprise a few people.

I put Larsson ahead of K-bomb, because IMO K-bomb was awful last year, and I don't think it was all because of his shoulder injury, as many hope it was. I'm afraid what you saw is what he might be... I hope for the best with him too .. but don't be surprised if K-bombs needle doesn't move. I feel the same about Benning, an underwhelming outcome.


It makes you wonder about the self-image of players, young D in particular, and how they see themselves as a player in the pecking order of their team and in the league as their careers progress. I wonder if Klefbom signing a long term deal for middle pairing money basically indicates that that's where he sees himself in terms of career, and whether that self-image puts limits on his development?


You might be right, the most important trait of great players is they are always trying to be better.. their drive to succeed is through the roof.. can't achieve high goals if you don't think you are good enough..
But another point to consider is the top Swedes seem to care less about squeezing out the last drops out of their their contract potential.

All that said K-bomb is a big question for me. His shoulder is good so no excuses. this time.
Lots of players on this team will prove their NHL value one way or another this year.


I agree on the points about great players and striving to be better but have a question about the bolded.
Do you mean they dont look to get top dollar and more often take team friendly deals?



I don't know about this era, but Peter Forsberg, Mats Sundin.



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718155 is a reply to message #718153 ]
Sat, 01 September 2018 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17628
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 01 September 2018 16:49


I don't know about this era, but Peter Forsberg, Mats Sundin.



Wasn't Forsberg getting $10MM per year pre-lockout?



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718156 is a reply to message #718155 ]
Sun, 02 September 2018 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Sat, 01 September 2018 17:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 01 September 2018 16:49


I don't know about this era, but Peter Forsberg, Mats Sundin.



Wasn't Forsberg getting $10MM per year pre-lockout?



Sounds about right, but he put it all on the line and he earned his cheque just like McDavid does now. Injuries derailed him.



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718165 is a reply to message #718156 ]
Mon, 03 September 2018 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5733
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Sun, 02 September 2018 09:50

Adam wrote on Sat, 01 September 2018 17:07

K.McC#24 wrote on Sat, 01 September 2018 16:49


I don't know about this era, but Peter Forsberg, Mats Sundin.



Wasn't Forsberg getting $10MM per year pre-lockout?



Sounds about right, but he put it all on the line and he earned his cheque just like McDavid does now. Injuries derailed him.



Probably injured himself trying to draw a penalty.



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 Re: The Oilers' top players [message #718243 is a reply to message #717746 ]
Wed, 05 September 2018 08:07 Go to previous message
Phozzwald  is currently offline Phozzwald
Messages: 2
Registered: September 2018

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For me its:
Mcdavid
Draisaitl
Nugent-Hopkins
Puljujarvi

Klefbom
Larsson
Nurse
Sekera

I do believe however, Bouchard will make the team this season and will jump ahead of Sekera on the list.



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