This day on August 14
Acquired: Kevin Brown (1998)
Departed: Michel Picard (2000)

Happy Birthday To: Trueblue26, Belleu

F.A.Q. Terms of Use F.A.Q. F.A.Q.
Members Members   Search Search     Register Register   Login Login   Home Home
 Oilers » Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAVPages (3): [ «  <  1  2  3  >  »]
Switch to flat viewSwitch to tree viewCreate a new topicSubmit Reply
 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696282 is a reply to message #696275 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17983
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696284 is a reply to message #696282 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
Messages: 4452
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?


Do Strome or Puljujarvi get to play with Connor? If yes then yes.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696286 is a reply to message #696284 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17983
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:43

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?


Do Strome or Puljujarvi get to play with Connor? If yes then yes.


How did that work for Lucic and Eberle? Weren't both supposed to be 60-70 point guys playing with McDavid?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696287 is a reply to message #696286 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
Messages: 4452
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:44

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:43

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?


Do Strome or Puljujarvi get to play with Connor? If yes then yes.


How did that work for Lucic and Eberle? Weren't both supposed to be 60-70 point guys playing with McDavid?


I think that's what we are trying to tell you, Eberle didn't do enough to keep his job, and certainly didn't do enough to earn his high salary.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696289 is a reply to message #696287 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove  is currently offline vsove
Messages: 1057
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:44

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:43

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?


Do Strome or Puljujarvi get to play with Connor? If yes then yes.


How did that work for Lucic and Eberle? Weren't both supposed to be 60-70 point guys playing with McDavid?


I think that's what we are trying to tell you, Eberle didn't do enough to keep his job, and certainly didn't do enough to earn his high salary.


He got 51 points in an off year.

Do you think we're better off using that cap space and salary for Strome and 4 years of a declining Russell?



No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696291 is a reply to message #696289 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
Messages: 4452
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

4 Cups

vsove wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:51

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:44

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:43

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?


Do Strome or Puljujarvi get to play with Connor? If yes then yes.


How did that work for Lucic and Eberle? Weren't both supposed to be 60-70 point guys playing with McDavid?


I think that's what we are trying to tell you, Eberle didn't do enough to keep his job, and certainly didn't do enough to earn his high salary.


He got 51 points in an off year.

Do you think we're better off using that cap space and salary for Strome and 4 years of a declining Russell?


He got 51 points in an off year ......... playing with the best player on the planet.

He asked if I expect either of his replacements will score 50 points, and I said yes as long as they play with Conner.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696292 is a reply to message #696291 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 15420
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:59

vsove wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:51

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:44

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:43

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?


Do Strome or Puljujarvi get to play with Connor? If yes then yes.


How did that work for Lucic and Eberle? Weren't both supposed to be 60-70 point guys playing with McDavid?


I think that's what we are trying to tell you, Eberle didn't do enough to keep his job, and certainly didn't do enough to earn his high salary.


He got 51 points in an off year.

Do you think we're better off using that cap space and salary for Strome and 4 years of a declining Russell?


He got 51 points in an off year ......... playing with the best player on the planet.

He asked if I expect either of his replacements will score 50 points, and I said yes as long as they play with Conner.


Now THAT is great point to a debate to be centered on. Is McDavid so good that his wing almost instantly becomes a plug and play 50 point position? Time will tell if that position, and Chiarelli, is correct. Interesting gamble by the GM.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696307 is a reply to message #696291 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 18:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17983
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:59

vsove wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:51

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:44

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:43

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?


Do Strome or Puljujarvi get to play with Connor? If yes then yes.


How did that work for Lucic and Eberle? Weren't both supposed to be 60-70 point guys playing with McDavid?


I think that's what we are trying to tell you, Eberle didn't do enough to keep his job, and certainly didn't do enough to earn his high salary.


He got 51 points in an off year.

Do you think we're better off using that cap space and salary for Strome and 4 years of a declining Russell?


He got 51 points in an off year ......... playing with the best player on the planet.

He asked if I expect either of his replacements will score 50 points, and I said yes as long as they play with Conner.



Okay, I'm willing to bet that neither Strome nor Puljujarvi scores 55 points this season, nor beats Eberle in points/game. $100 for either bet.

Any takers?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696328 is a reply to message #696307 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 4864
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 21:10

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:59

vsove wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:51

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:46

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:44

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:43

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:41

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:30

Not once did I say he was garbage. I said he doesn't fit the style played here anymore. He will be extremely hard to replace but he was not going to get anymore valuable as an asset than he was this year. If he has another "off year" what do they get back in trade? As for Russel I think the deal is a year too long but it's also front loaded so should be trade-able to a team trying to hit the floor. I would have liked to see a little less money as well but I'm sure he would have gotten the 4 in free agency. Sometimes the devil you know is better.


Out of interest, how likely do you think it is that Slepyshev or Caggiula ever have a 50 point season?

Do you think it's likely that Puljujarvi or Strome has a 50 point season this year? Do you think they're likely to reach 60?


Do Strome or Puljujarvi get to play with Connor? If yes then yes.


How did that work for Lucic and Eberle? Weren't both supposed to be 60-70 point guys playing with McDavid?


I think that's what we are trying to tell you, Eberle didn't do enough to keep his job, and certainly didn't do enough to earn his high salary.


He got 51 points in an off year.

Do you think we're better off using that cap space and salary for Strome and 4 years of a declining Russell?


He got 51 points in an off year ......... playing with the best player on the planet.

He asked if I expect either of his replacements will score 50 points, and I said yes as long as they play with Conner.



Okay, I'm willing to bet that neither Strome nor Puljujarvi scores 55 points this season, nor beats Eberle in points/game. $100 for either bet.

Any takers?



I'd put a $100 on that as well in case there is more than one taker.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696206 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2917
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

@TSNRyanRishaug: Russell deal 5, 4.5, 4, 2.5 signing bonus of $2M in year 1 and $1M in year 4.


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696208 is a reply to message #696206 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17983
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 12:55

@TSNRyanRishaug: Russell deal 5, 4.5, 4, 2.5 signing bonus of $2M in year 1 and $1M in year 4.


Last year signing bonus is important because it give Russell some buy-out proofing. You get 100% of your bonus, so if they were to buy him out after 3 years, he gets $1.67MM out of that last $2MM.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696209 is a reply to message #696208 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2917
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 11:57

Goose wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 12:55

@TSNRyanRishaug: Russell deal 5, 4.5, 4, 2.5 signing bonus of $2M in year 1 and $1M in year 4.


Last year signing bonus is important because it give Russell some buy-out proofing. You get 100% of your bonus, so if they were to buy him out after 3 years, he gets $1.67MM out of that last $2MM.


This is true. You're still likely stuck with him for at least 3 years though as there is no relief after year 2 in terms of cap hit relative to actual salary, and then the modified NTC kicks in.

The crazy thing to me is that, given the structure of the contract, it's like the Oilers know that he won't live up to it over the life of the contract, but they gave it to him anyways. I have a really hard time trying to understand what leverage Russell had in these negotiations.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696213 is a reply to message #696209 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 8119
Registered: January 2016

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 13:01

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 11:57

Goose wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 12:55

@TSNRyanRishaug: Russell deal 5, 4.5, 4, 2.5 signing bonus of $2M in year 1 and $1M in year 4.


Last year signing bonus is important because it give Russell some buy-out proofing. You get 100% of your bonus, so if they were to buy him out after 3 years, he gets $1.67MM out of that last $2MM.


This is true. You're still likely stuck with him for at least 3 years though as there is no relief after year 2 in terms of cap hit relative to actual salary, and then the modified NTC kicks in.

The crazy thing to me is that, given the structure of the contract, it's like the Oilers know that he won't live up to it over the life of the contract, but they gave it to him anyways. I have a really hard time trying to understand what leverage Russell had in these negotiations.

You can say Russell is a 3rd pairing guy all you want but he played on the second pair of a 103 pt team so he had to do something right. You don't become a 103pt if you have a garbage second pairing and it takes 2 guys to make a pairing. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

As for leverage, you don't think Sekera, the other half of the second pairing of a 103 pts team, blowing out his knee and being out until January if they are lucky then taking another month to get up to speed isn't some leverage? In a week UFA market, you don't think most remotely decent dmen out there are going to get a hell of a lot of money and term? I am not a fan of the 4 years what so ever but there is no way Russell can't get that term if he went to free agency. I think he gets it easily, maybe longer.

I dislike the length of the deal but not a chance in hell do I want the Oilers rolling the dice that Nurse and Benning, 2 very young dmen, Nurse being the "vet" of the 2 at 115 games can take over the second pairing.

[Updated on: Fri, 23 June 2017 13:15]


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696215 is a reply to message #696213 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2917
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 12:11

You don't think Sekera blowing out his knee and being out until January if they are lucky then taking another month to get up to speed isn't some leverage? In a week UFA market, you don't think most remotely decent dmen out there are going to get a hell of a lot of money and term? I am not a fan of the 4 years what so ever but there is no way Russell can't get that term if he went to free agency. I think he gets it easily, maybe longer.

I dislike the length of the deal but not a chance in hell do I want the Oilers rolling the dice that Nurse and Benning, 2 very young dmen, Nurse being the "vet" of the 2 at 115 games can take over the second pairing.


No, I don't think he has leverage. Schlemko for a 5th and Hjalmarsson for a 3rd pairing and an AHLer would seem to back me up on that.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696220 is a reply to message #696215 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 8119
Registered: January 2016

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 13:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 12:11

You don't think Sekera blowing out his knee and being out until January if they are lucky then taking another month to get up to speed isn't some leverage? In a week UFA market, you don't think most remotely decent dmen out there are going to get a hell of a lot of money and term? I am not a fan of the 4 years what so ever but there is no way Russell can't get that term if he went to free agency. I think he gets it easily, maybe longer.

I dislike the length of the deal but not a chance in hell do I want the Oilers rolling the dice that Nurse and Benning, 2 very young dmen, Nurse being the "vet" of the 2 at 115 games can take over the second pairing.


No, I don't think he has leverage. Schlemko for a 5th and Hjalmarsson for a 3rd pairing and an AHLer would seem to back me up on that.


You are entitled to your opinion. A team doesn't get 103 points by fluke and they sure as heck don't get 103 pts if your second pairing is garbage. IF Russell is as crappy as you say, their second pairing would have sucked. So either Sekera is the second coming of Pronger or maybe Russell isn't as bad as you think. So something doesn't add up.

I understand he's not the greatest dman. I understand he has limitations to his game but he's not a 3rd pairing guy. He's a #4. The only people who say he's a 3rd pairing guy are fans who have a problem with him, most people in hockey say he's a second pairing guy.

[Updated on: Fri, 23 June 2017 13:21]


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696223 is a reply to message #696220 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2917
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 12:18


You are entitled to your opinion. A team doesn't get 103 points by fluke and they sure as heck don't get 103 pts if your second pairing is garbage. IF Russell is as crappy as you say, their second pairing would have sucked. So either Sekera is the second coming of Pronger or maybe Russell isn't as bad as you think. So something doesn't add up.


Thanks for letting me know that I'm entitled to my opinion, because that's not dismissive at all.

I didn't say Russell is crappy. I think he's a 3rd pair defenceman that played 2nd pairing. And Russell's numbers away from Sekera were absolutely horrible. So yes, I think Russell benefited from that pairing.

I don't think you overpay that guy for 4 years when you could have traded a 4th round pick to get an equivalent player for half the price.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696225 is a reply to message #696220 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 3227
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

3 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 13:18



You are entitled to your opinion. A team doesn't get 103 points by fluke and they sure as heck don't get 103 pts if your second pairing is garbage. IF Russell is as crappy as you say, their second pairing would have sucked. So either Sekera is the second coming of Pronger or maybe Russell isn't as bad as you think. So something doesn't add up.

I understand he's not the greatest dman. I understand he has limitations to his game but he's not a 3rd pairing guy. He's a #4. The only people who say he's a 3rd pairing guy are fans who have a problem with him, most people in hockey say he's a second pairing guy.



Your style of quoting "facts not opinions" as you put it to defend your opinion is very confusing (I know you didnt say it hear but it is a pretty constant theme.)

This is what you had to say in the Eberle thread (again, that you keep directing people to to see the "abuse" you took)

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 14 June 2017 13:42



Defense by committee doesn't work? The Pens won the cup what was it 3 days ago? Please list off who on their defense is a top end dman on any team? Here is the link to the Pens lines.
http://www2.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/lines/36/pittsburgh-pengu ins

Cole - Schultz
Maata -Daley
Dumoulin - Hainsey

I believe those are the 6 guys that played the majority of all of the Pens playoffs games. Which one of them is anything higher than a #4 on any team? Maybe one of of the 6 would be considered a #3 on another team at best but not a one would any other team have any of them in their top pairing. They were missing their 25+ min, norris guy in Letang. So I would call the latest STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS as having a defense by committee. Would you not?

[/url]


So you state that defense by committee is just fine and you dont need "anything higher than a #4 on any team" to win a cup but now you say "they sure as heck don't get 103 pts if your second pairing is garbage."

So let me make sure I am clear on your stance;
- trading for middle pairing or worse defenceman can help win a cup
- you CANT get to 103 points and the playoffs without a good second pairing

Sum it up pretty good?



Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696230 is a reply to message #696220 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2917
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 12:18

most people in hockey say he's a second pairing guy.


Oh, come on. "Most people in hockey". What does that even mean? Are those the same "most people in hockey" that wouldn't pay him more than $3.1M on a one year deal a year ago? Because that sounds like a pretty good bargain for a 2nd pair defenceman.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696222 is a reply to message #696213 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17983
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 13:11

Goose wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 13:01

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 11:57

Goose wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 12:55

@TSNRyanRishaug: Russell deal 5, 4.5, 4, 2.5 signing bonus of $2M in year 1 and $1M in year 4.


Last year signing bonus is important because it give Russell some buy-out proofing. You get 100% of your bonus, so if they were to buy him out after 3 years, he gets $1.67MM out of that last $2MM.


This is true. You're still likely stuck with him for at least 3 years though as there is no relief after year 2 in terms of cap hit relative to actual salary, and then the modified NTC kicks in.

The crazy thing to me is that, given the structure of the contract, it's like the Oilers know that he won't live up to it over the life of the contract, but they gave it to him anyways. I have a really hard time trying to understand what leverage Russell had in these negotiations.

You don't think Sekera blowing out his knee and being out until January if they are lucky then taking another month to get up to speed isn't some leverage? In a week UFA market, you don't think most remotely decent dmen out there are going to get a hell of a lot of money and term? I am not a fan of the 4 years what so ever but there is no way Russell can't get that term if he went to free agency. I think he gets it easily, maybe longer.

I dislike the length of the deal but not a chance in hell do I want the Oilers rolling the dice that Nurse and Benning, 2 very young dmen, Nurse being the "vet" of the 2 at 115 games can take over the second pairing.


That gives him leverage for this year, and so at very worst, if I'm in Chiarelli's shoes and I figure I need someone to come in, then I overpay on a one-year deal for Russell. But giving him four years is lunacy.

He apparently likes the team, the coach likes him, he knows he fits in with the guys here and we have the best player in the game - which means there's a chance of being part of something big. If those aren't enough reasons to sign for a reasonable amount, then you HAVE to be able to walk away from the negotiations and try to address your weaknesses another way. Certainly there are pieces available out there. It's clear that Vegas is stockpiling draft picks, and they have lots of third pairing guys who could fill a stop gap role. At worst, you could start with a less than ideal lineup and then either sign a guy like Russell who'd been passed over during the summer, or wait a month and pick someone up off a team looking to make a change. The Oilers had a defence hole in 2005-06, and were able to address it with two deals in one day when teams started dropping out of the playoff picture. There's no reason to think there weren't other ways of doing this.

But, as I've said before, Chiarelli has tunnel vision on these things. He decides on a path and doesn't seem to look at the other options around him. It's a major failing because it means he's committed to an action and doesn't have the fortitude and sense to know when to walk away.

The rumours held that this was exactly the contract that Russell's camp asked for at the start of the summer. The only thing that changed was that we got rid of Eberle. There's no more evidence to suggest Russell was going to get this from someone else, and we should know by now that longer deals for declining defencemen in their 30s can bite you down the road. One can only hope with this deal that Russell is a little bit allergic to hockey equipment...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696221 is a reply to message #696209 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
Messages: 2555
Registered: March 2007

2 Cups

Goose wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 13:01

The crazy thing to me is that, given the structure of the contract, it's like the Oilers know that he won't live up to it over the life of the contract, but they gave it to him anyways. I have a really hard time trying to understand what leverage Russell had in these negotiations.


Agreed, the Oilers know absolutely he won't be on this team past year 3, he may not even make it there. I'm thinking that Chia is banking that he'll be a trade deadline deal at the end of year two, most of the money paid out and an easy out to those teams struggling to to get the the cap floor.

At the end of the day the deal isn't as bad as it could have been, front loaded (maybe to circumvent the cap) and get him for a year or two as a stop gap.



The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696217 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
Messages: 4452
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

4 Cups

I'm a fan of the player, don't like the contract


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696236 is a reply to message #696217 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
Messages: 425
Registered: January 2011

No Cups

NetBOG wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 13:15

I'm a fan of the player, don't like the contract


I hate the player and I despise the contract.

From the speculation thread:

ziltoid wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 01:42

Kris Russell is a tire fire of a defenceman, and a 4x4 deal is so unfathomably stupid that any GM who signs that deal should be fired.

Last year there were 263 defensemen who played 50+ minutes over the course of the season. Kris Russell ranked 227th overall with respect to CF% (46.41%, which is an objectively terrible number). His CF% per 60 relative to his linemates was 10th worse in the league at an ungodly -5.82, and his CF% per 60 relative to the team was 34th worse in the entire league at an equally appalling -4.27%. To be fair, though, he did have the 28th best GA per 60 at 1.70 (best on the team), which fits with the narrative that Kris Russel is a good defender, but can't manage a clean breakout (it's off the glass and out after sustained pressure, which simply leads to the opposition re-grouping and re-attacking). Given the evidence that clean zone exits and entries are the backbone of a successful team, paying a 30-year old Russell 4x4 when you could spend that money on someone who is younger and can manage a breakout (and post WAY better corsi and offense numbers) is just stupid.... objectively stupid.


Russell can't move the puck in a controlled fashion. Full stop. This is a problem because controlled offensive zone entries are significantly better than uncontrolled offensive zone entries, and if you don't maintain clean possession out of your own zone and through the neutral zone, then you can't enter the offensive zone in a controlled fashion.

http://www.hockeyanalytics.com/Research_files/Using%20Zone%2 0Entry%20Data%20To%20Separate%20Offensive,%20Neutral,%20And% 20Defensive%20Zone%20Performance.pdf

ziltoid wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 03:23



.
.
.

Chiarelli seems to be focusing on players who excel specifically at keeping the puck out the net, but without paying attention to how they do it. There is a big conceptual difference between keeping the puck out of the net because you are maintaining possession and moving the puck up ice in a controlled fashion, and keeping the puck out of the net because you block a lot of shots and then dump it off the glass and out (or ice the puck). One is clearly superior to the other, and I am not sure Chiarrelli gets that, which to me highlights a failure by their stats department (or, more cynically, a major character flaw in Chiarelli for not listening to them when they explain the difference), which is troubling because it does not take a math wiz to make sense of the player data, so there is no excuse for not being able to understand what the stats say and how to properly utilize them.



If you look at Russell's WOWY numbers, Russell brings Sekera's CF% down by 10 points! In fact everyone's CF% is better away from Russell than with him.


https://puckalytics.com/#/players?pid=464

Russell is yesterday's defenseman and signing him to a 4x4 deal is horrible.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696219 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 15420
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

I have nothing to add to this thread, but I like to go one record after trades and signing so I can remember what I thought of it. So, future CrusaderPi, this is what you thought.

Bad signing now. Bad signing in the future. Bad term. Bad amount. Overrated player. I don't trust Oilers super-secret analytics. Defense will continue to be a weakness. God help us if there's one playoff injury during McDavid's prime cup winning years.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696228 is a reply to message #696219 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clutchlikeeberle  is currently offline clutchlikeeberle
Messages: 462
Registered: April 2012

No Cups

It is amazing how PC is taking a spirited playoff run and flushing it down the toilet. Back to back amateur bush league moves. Jesus he must want the summer off and just ticking the easiest boxes he can reach with a pen. Why can't the Oil every have a competent GM.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696241 is a reply to message #696228 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cosmicheretic  is currently offline cosmicheretic
Messages: 328
Registered: November 2007

No Cups

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 13:31

It is amazing how PC is taking a spirited playoff run and flushing it down the toilet. Back to back amateur bush league moves. Jesus he must want the summer off and just ticking the easiest boxes he can reach with a pen. Why can't the Oil every have a competent GM.


Yes but this goes to the top. Look at his Boston trades and then tell me was the right GM for the Oil? Ownership fail.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696244 is a reply to message #696241 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilerfan79  is currently offline oilerfan79
Messages: 118
Registered: August 2006
Location: Windsor Ontario

No Cups

So all is lost. The point increase last season was a fluke and had nothing to do with astute moves by a terrible GM and he really must be terrible because he signed a dman who played in his top 4 to a contract that matches up with many other dmen who play in the top 4 for their teams. What do you do when it rains hide inside and curse the world?


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696245 is a reply to message #696244 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 15420
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 14:08

So all is lost. The point increase last season was a fluke and had nothing to do with astute moves by a terrible GM and he really must be terrible because he signed a dman who played in his top 4 to a contract that matches up with many other dmen who play in the top 4 for their teams. What do you do when it rains hide inside and curse the world?

No, all is not lost, but it is possible to see where certain problems are arising based on managers and the decisions they make. Personally I would like to see those issues proactively addressed, and maybe they will be, but right now it's not hard to say that the Edmonton Oilers are worse than they were at the end of last season. I'm certainly not going inside because it's raining, but it is raining.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696250 is a reply to message #696245 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilerfan79  is currently offline oilerfan79
Messages: 118
Registered: August 2006
Location: Windsor Ontario

No Cups

Can we see a game first next season before declaring that the GM has no plan and the team will be terrible because he traded 1 guy who no longer fit and signed another that the stats guys hate but who the coach and GM seem to value a great deal. I mean the stats guys were going on and on about how good Fayne was and that turned out pretty good right? I for one think most of Chia's moves have been pretty astute. The only real blemish I see is Reinhart, but I believe he had no faith in the scouting staff and was being fed a line about how good a player he was by people he had been told he could trust. Since then I have seen no bad moves and that includes Larsson for Hall.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696274 is a reply to message #696250 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17983
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 14:19

Can we see a game first next season before declaring that the GM has no plan and the team will be terrible because he traded 1 guy who no longer fit and signed another that the stats guys hate but who the coach and GM seem to value a great deal. I mean the stats guys were going on and on about how good Fayne was and that turned out pretty good right? I for one think most of Chia's moves have been pretty astute. The only real blemish I see is Reinhart, but I believe he had no faith in the scouting staff and was being fed a line about how good a player he was by people he had been told he could trust. Since then I have seen no bad moves and that includes Larsson for Hall.


I am generally a person who appreciates stats, but I did not like the Fayne deal when it happened. He didn't put up points. If you're driving possession and playing decent minutes, you should be picking up some points almost by accident, and yet Fayne never did. It raised too many questions for me.

That said, his numbers in Edmonton haven't been bad. He's out of favour, but he hasn't looked terrible in the bulk of his games in Edmonton, despite first having to play for Eakins (which made everyone look bad) and then struggling at the start of the McLellan era.

Russell doesn't just look bad from a numbers point of view though. I challenge anyone to go watch him in isolation. Pull up some old games and see how he advances the puck. If he can't pass to Sekera, there's almost no chance he's completing a pass. He fires it up the boards and out. That leads to surrendering possession again and again and again, or to icings which strand our guys out on the ice while the other team is able to change and once again starts in our zone. Russell doesn't pass the eye test if you're watching carefully.

Even the shot blocks - watch what happens when someone fakes a shot. He sprawls quite regularly. This is effective if they shoot, but when they don't he takes himself out of the play.

Watch him on zone entries. Compare how he challenges the puck carrier compared to other defencemen. He leaves a wide gap and allows them easy entry to the zone each time. Again, the level of gap he leaves helps him with shot blocks, but it means that they have much more room to operate and if they pass or look to skate the puck? Then the Oilers are disadvantaged.

The stats are meaningful with him too. They show what the eye test does. He doesn't maintain possession well, so the opposition attacks in waves when he's on the ice. He's decent at winning possession, but he then tends to give it back away, which removes the benefit.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696288 is a reply to message #696274 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ziltoid  is currently offline ziltoid
Messages: 425
Registered: January 2011

No Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 15:29

oilerfan79 wrote on Fri, 23 June 2017 14:19

Can we see a game first next season before declaring that the GM has no plan and the team will be terrible because he traded 1 guy who no longer fit and signed another that the stats guys hate but who the coach and GM seem to value a great deal. I mean the stats guys were going on and on about how good Fayne was and that turned out pretty good right? I for one think most of Chia's moves have been pretty astute. The only real blemish I see is Reinhart, but I believe he had no faith in the scouting staff and was being fed a line about how good a player he was by people he had been told he could trust. Since then I have seen no bad moves and that includes Larsson for Hall.


I am generally a person who appreciates stats, but I did not like the Fayne deal when it happened. He didn't put up points. If you're driving possession and playing decent minutes, you should be picking up some points almost by accident, and yet Fayne never did. It raised too many questions for me.

That said, his numbers in Edmonton haven't been bad. He's out of favour, but he hasn't looked terrible in the bulk of his games in Edmonton, despite first having to play for Eakins (which made everyone look bad) and then struggling at the start of the McLellan era.

Russell doesn't just look bad from a numbers point of view though. I challenge anyone to go watch him in isolation. Pull up some old games and see how he advances the puck. If he can't pass to Sekera, there's almost no chance he's completing a pass. He fires it up the boards and out. That leads to surrendering possession again and again and again, or to icings which strand our guys out on the ice while the other team is able to change and once again starts in our zone. Russell doesn't pass the eye test if you're watching carefully.

Even the shot blocks - watch what happens when someone fakes a shot. He sprawls quite regularly. This is effective if they shoot, but when they don't he takes himself out of the play.

Watch him on zone entries. Compare how he challenges the puck carrier compared to other defencemen. He leaves a wide gap and allows them easy entry to the zone each time. Again, the level of gap he leaves helps him with shot blocks, but it means that they have much more room to operate and if they pass or look to skate the puck? Then the Oilers are disadvantaged.

The stats are meaningful with him too. They show what the eye test does. He doesn't maintain possession well, so the opposition attacks in waves when he's on the ice. He's decent at winning possession, but he then tends to give it back away, which removes the benefit.



The problem with Russell goes so much deeper than that, too. There is good evidence that a notable chuck of player performance can be chalked up to the interactive effects of player combinations, and by every metric Russell makes those on the ice with him worse. He is just an objectively bad player who makes those on the ice with him worse.

http://projecteuclid.org/download/pdfview_1/euclid.aoas/1380 804804



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696246 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TeemaJeema  is currently offline TeemaJeema
Messages: 224
Registered: March 2011
Location: Out in the Country

No Cups

As most have said, it is a year maybe two, too long. Money is easily what he would have gotten on the market this year if not more.

All in all a quality player though who helped this team to playoff hockey for the first time in 10 years.

The Oilers D core has been solidified for less than 20M going into this season. Most playoff teams average 24M. Quality prospects coming up within the Oilers development system in the next 2 years as well. Very positive looking forward. Still wouldn't mind the Oilers pushing for Hamonic though.



Oiler Fan For Life.
Go Esks Go!

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696248 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
messier11  is currently offline messier11
Messages: 262
Registered: July 2006
Location: Manitoba

No Cups

Sometimes I wonder if a player doesn't get paid as much for his locker-room presence as he does his on-ice play...

What if Russell is a killer (alternate captain-like) locker room guy and the team values him as a glue kind of player??

We don't know much about what goes on in the locker room and I do think there is some value to that type of player even if they don't put up big numbers.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696261 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove  is currently offline vsove
Messages: 1057
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Terrible signing. I think we'll be answering the questions about making the playoffs and not winning a cup for a while now.

Chia is not a good GM. I still think the Hall Larsson trade was the right one, but Eberle for Strome and now this aren't giving me much confidence in him.



No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696266 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 2657
Registered: November 2007

2 Cups

Is it too early to be in a fire Chiarelli camp? I just don't think he understands value or leverage or negotiations very well.




Clean house or bust

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696300 is a reply to message #696178 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 7126
Registered: February 2011

6 Cups

So has the sky finished falling yet? I'm sure Chia isn't done yet this offseason, so maybe hold off on getting out the cross and nails, hmm?


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696333 is a reply to message #696300 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ryanc182  is currently offline ryanc182
Messages: 114
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer

No Cups

Amen.

I honestly don't know if I've ever seen the fan base so irrational, or divided over one player.

Fire the GM? He's incompetent? Russell is the worst signing ever? Jesus guys step back off the edge. Some of the moves Chia made last year made got us into the playoffs for the first time in a decade last year. (Yes, yes before someone yells at me I'll acknowledge McDavid, Talbot, Leon and a healthy year) but for gods sake give the guy some respect for what the team accomplished. Why does this fan base constantly need a whipping boy? No matter what the team does no one is ever satisfied.





Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696334 is a reply to message #696333 ]
Fri, 23 June 2017 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mad90  is currently offline mad90
Messages: 84
Registered: July 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

No Cups

Agreed! People think there opinions matter when they don't. The whole whipping boy mentality has run enough players out of town, and people wonder why players don't want to stay or want to come. Does it really matter to the fan on how much a player makes? he wants to be here and that is all what matters.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696423 is a reply to message #696300 ]
Sun, 25 June 2017 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
Messages: 885
Registered: October 2014

No Cups

Just wondering if anyone has a clear idea of what Chia's options were. The flames overpaid big time for Hamonic and he has to be looking at some of the young guys coming along that will be playing here shortly. I liked Russel in the playoffs but not sure he can stay injury free given how much of a pounding his body takes with his style of play. You can't question his heart and that goes a long way from one of the more vetran players on the team. But if not him then who? They needed a reliable defenceman especially with Reinhart being taken by Vegas.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696433 is a reply to message #696423 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 8119
Registered: January 2016

6 Cups

In the days leading up to the Russell contract and then after it was signed, it's been divided. There are those who hate it and those you love it. I fall in the middle. I think the contract is a bit too long. My preference was 2 years, 3 if you had too, I didn't want 4. I was hoping for a cap hit that started with a 3 but its at an even 4. I am confident in saying that on the open market, Russell easily gets over 4 mill and at least 4 years. So I don't think they overpaid but they didn't get a discount which I had hoped for.

But for the people that hate Russell, they are pissed. I have read a ton about all the things he can't do. I have read a ton about all the certain numbers that say he's not good. The Oilers were a 103 pts team, went to game 7 in the Western Semi's, a series they kind of got screwed out of but they did that with Russell - who to some is a borderline NHLer - playing in their top 4 and playing a significant role. I have seen some people up in arms that the Oilers aren't trying to dramatically upgrade their defense.

So my question is, Russell played a significant role on the Oilers and they had a 103pt season. If he is so bad, how did that happen? How can you get that many points having a guy play that many mins for your team if he is as bad as some people say? Did the Oilers improve thanks to McDavid? Yes but he isn't the sole reason. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't play the whole game. Did the Oilers improve because Talbot was good? Yes but without at least a competent defense, I don't care how good your goalie is, he can only do so much. SO what was it. Are we talking fluke, act of god, what is it?



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696439 is a reply to message #696433 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
vsove  is currently offline vsove
Messages: 1057
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 09:04

In the days leading up to the Russell contract and then after it was signed, it's been divided. There are those who hate it and those you love it. I fall in the middle. I think the contract is a bit too long. My preference was 2 years, 3 if you had too, I didn't want 4. I was hoping for a cap hit that started with a 3 but its at an even 4. I am confident in saying that on the open market, Russell easily gets over 4 mill and at least 4 years. So I don't think they overpaid but they didn't get a discount which I had hoped for.

But for the people that hate Russell, they are pissed. I have read a ton about all the things he can't do. I have read a ton about all the certain numbers that say he's not good. The Oilers were a 103 pts team, went to game 7 in the Western Semi's, a series they kind of got screwed out of but they did that with Russell - who to some is a borderline NHLer - playing in their top 4 and playing a significant role. I have seen some people up in arms that the Oilers aren't trying to dramatically upgrade their defense.

So my question is, Russell played a significant role on the Oilers and they had a 103pt season. If he is so bad, how did that happen? How can you get that many points having a guy play that many mins for your team if he is as bad as some people say? Did the Oilers improve thanks to McDavid? Yes but he isn't the sole reason. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't play the whole game. Did the Oilers improve because Talbot was good? Yes but without at least a competent defense, I don't care how good your goalie is, he can only do so much. SO what was it. Are we talking fluke, act of god, what is it?


This is a bad argument.

We didn't have a 103 point season because we had Russell on the team. We had a 103 point season, and also, Russell was on the team. McDavid and Talbot were huge drivers of our success last season, as were players like Draisatl and Klefbom.

Russell is not bad enough to lose us games. He is a perfectly serviceable bottom pair defenceman who will give you a consistently top-level bottom pair performance. But we gave him 4 million over 4 yars. That's second pairing money, or bargain first pairing money. It handcuffs us on flexibility, and it means we're going to have a harder time addressing our other holes which concerns me.

I don't hate Russell. I just think he's not a great option and he's emblematic of a problem I have with Chiarelli, which is his weird laser-focus on specific players. It's clear that he decided, early on, that Russell was his guy, and I don't think he did his due diligence. Would Russell have gotten 4 x 4 elsewhere? Maybe! And we should've wished him luck and let him go while we targeted other players.

I don't think it's as dire as some people think, but I still don't like the signing. And it has less to do with Russell than it has to do with Chiarelli, and a worrying trend I'm seeing developing.



No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Russell signs with Oilers 4yr 4M AAV [message #696441 is a reply to message #696433 ]
Mon, 26 June 2017 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17983
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2017 09:04

In the days leading up to the Russell contract and then after it was signed, it's been divided. There are those who hate it and those you love it. I fall in the middle. I think the contract is a bit too long. My preference was 2 years, 3 if you had too, I didn't want 4. I was hoping for a cap hit that started with a 3 but its at an even 4. I am confident in saying that on the open market, Russell easily gets over 4 mill and at least 4 years. So I don't think they overpaid but they didn't get a discount which I had hoped for.

But for the people that hate Russell, they are pissed. I have read a ton about all the things he can't do. I have read a ton about all the certain numbers that say he's not good. The Oilers were a 103 pts team, went to game 7 in the Western Semi's, a series they kind of got screwed out of but they did that with Russell - who to some is a borderline NHLer - playing in their top 4 and playing a significant role. I have seen some people up in arms that the Oilers aren't trying to dramatically upgrade their defense.

So my question is, Russell played a significant role on the Oilers and they had a 103pt season. If he is so bad, how did that happen? How can you get that many points having a guy play that many mins for your team if he is as bad as some people say? Did the Oilers improve thanks to McDavid? Yes but he isn't the sole reason. He doesn't play defense, he doesn't play the whole game. Did the Oilers improve because Talbot was good? Yes but without at least a competent defense, I don't care how good your goalie is, he can only do so much. SO what was it. Are we talking fluke, act of god, what is it?


I've laid out my beliefs on why the team improved last year. A) Best player in the game in Connor McDavid. B) Very good goaltending from Talbot, who played in 20 more games than year before. C) Top 6 forwards and top 3 defence miss a grand total of 6 games due to injury.

As for why Russell doesn't cost us more last year, part of that comes down to Talbot too. Russell's on-ice save percentage was abnormally high. While overall, Talbot's save percentage was .918, when Russell was on the ice last year, it was .938. There will be those who try to interpret that as evidence that he's doing something to make it easier for his goalie to save the puck, but if that was the case, then he should see a similar phenomenon every year. (Hint: he doesn't). On-ice save percentage, like shooting percentage, fluctuates and outlying numbers tend to regress to the norm.

This article was dismissed angrily by some of Edmonton's mainstream media, but Matt Henderson is providing statistical evidence to back up why Russell isn't good. Basically it comes down to this - when he's on the ice, the Oilers spend more time in their own zone, shoot less and get shot on more.

https://oilersnation.com/2017/06/15/signing-kris-russell-wou ld-be-a-horrible-mistake/

Now, I've seen the argument you've made here about the 103 point season again and again both here and on twitter and even from media guys who should know better. The problem is, that the Oilers should have expected that kind of bounce last year. They have a healthy generational player on their team - that's what happens with players like that.

They should now be looking to capture a championship. That should be the stated goal for this year. Any year in the next ten that they don't win is a missed opportunity. So given that, the management should be looking at this as a season that fell short and be analyzing what they need to make the next step. They can't pat themselves on the back, and they can't be complacent.

It was clear in the playoffs that the Sharks and Ducks had a better defence and a better break-out than the Oilers did. Puck-moving from the defence of those two teams was very good, and they weren't even class of the conference. To me, it was clearly an area that looked in need of an upgrade even before Sekera went down. Now, with #2 out until Christmas, there's a giant hole. We've addressed it by re-signing Kris Russell and indicating interest in bringing back Gryba too. You have to hope there's something more coming there, because it's just not enough yet.

Add to that getting worse at right wing, and you've got a 103 point team that looks objectively worse on June 26th than it did at the end of the season. Does that give you comfort we're going to challenge for the Cup next year?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

Pages (3): [ «  <  1  2  3  >  »]  
Previous Topic:Review: Edmonton @ Dallas (Game #20)
Next Topic:GDT: Edmonton @ Dallas (Game #20)
Oilers NHL Minors Speculation For Sale 


Copyright © OilFans.com 1996-2022.
All content is property of OilFans.com and cannot be used without expressed, written consent from this site.
Questions, comments and suggestions can be directed to oilfans@OilFans.com
Privacy Statement


Hosted by LogicalHosting.ca