This day on September 30
Acquired: Reed Larson (1988) Drake Berehowsky (1997) Steve MacIntyre (2008)
Departed: Ralph Intranuovo (1996) Ladislav Benysek (1999) Todd Reirden (1999)

F.A.Q. Terms of Use F.A.Q. F.A.Q.
Members Members   Search Search     Register Register   Login Login   Home Home
 Oilers » GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79)Pages (2): [ «  <  1  2]
Switch to flat viewSwitch to tree viewCreate a new topicSubmit Reply
 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690316 is a reply to message #690311 ]
Tue, 04 April 2017 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 17291
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 04 April 2017 22:51

Anaheim is going to win, looks like Sharks will too.

Home ice is in jeopardy...freaking ducks. Just lose a game.


Still in full control of our destiny for home ice in the 1st round if we lose tonight. SJ has 2 games left, we have 3, one against SJ and 2 against the Canucks.

Home ice vs SJ is looking ideal to me now. I really don't want to win the division and end up with Nashville.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690312 is a reply to message #690273 ]
Tue, 04 April 2017 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 7096
Registered: February 2011

6 Cups

Hopefully this marker will count to let Drai get redemption for the turnover earlier....


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690317 is a reply to message #690273 ]
Tue, 04 April 2017 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 7096
Registered: February 2011

6 Cups

Come on, Patty, you gotta dump it in when your goalie leaves the net.... Oh well. icon_dead


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690319 is a reply to message #690317 ]
Tue, 04 April 2017 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 17291
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

What in the hell was all that crap in our zone before that lame rush attempt? Sek and Russell confusing each other for 20 seconds.


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690318 is a reply to message #690273 ]
Tue, 04 April 2017 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove  is currently offline vsove
Messages: 930
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Great game for the 2nd line.

First line has been average. Would've loved a McDavid goal.



No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690322 is a reply to message #690273 ]
Tue, 04 April 2017 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
Messages: 8718
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

6 Cups

That was sure fun at about the 2:00 mark watching Sekera and Russell work at getting the puck out of their end as they burn about 30 seconds of time.

I swear to god, their endless indecision in these situations is gonna cause me to biff the remote at the TV one of these nights.



#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690326 is a reply to message #690322 ]
Tue, 04 April 2017 23:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 7629
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

g2k wrote on Tue, 04 April 2017 22:09

That was sure fun at about the 2:00 mark watching Sekera and Russell work at getting the puck out of their end as they burn about 30 seconds of time.

I swear to god, their endless indecision in these situations is gonna cause me to biff the remote at the TV one of these nights.



Invest in some chicken wire and it put up in front of your screen. Biff away!



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690342 is a reply to message #690326 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Disappointing game. I was a little surprised had how hard the Kings came at the Oilers with absolutely nothing to play for. So credit to them. If you go look at their minutes, it was business as usual for the Kings. All the old guys are getting big minutes, all the young guys are getting squat. The Kings need to get younger and faster up front. Brodzinski who was pretty good played less than 12 mins. Kempe who looked decent played 13 mins. Dustin Brown, one of the guys they are probably dying to get rid of and is exhibit A of who needs to go, played 17:24. Why? I heard a Kings reporter on Stauffers show saying the Kings need to get younger and faster up front and they need another good dman who can move the puck. Doughty played over 26 mins. Martinez played over 23 mins. Muzzin played over 21. All those guys have secure jobs. LaDue, a young up and comer played under 12 mins. Why is Doughty playing 26 mins in a game that means nothing to the Kings. Here is a good chance to see what LaDue can do against a good team playing a game that means something. You of course want to try to win so you don't sit Doughty but playing him 26 mins is insane when it means nothing. There is no value to the Kings or Doughty moving forward to play him 26 mins in game 79 when you aren't going to the playoffs. Here is a perfect chance to see what a young guy can do with nothing to lose. So what Sutter did with player utilization I thought was stupid and I was Lombardi, I'd be giving him crap but I doubt it will happen.

That being said, the Oilers didn't play well enough to win. I thought Nuge was excellent (please continue that). I thought Eberle was pretty decent and actually seemed a little scrappy (please continue that). I thought Lucic continued to be his was very effective self that he has been for the last month and a half. If the Oilers can get all 3 playing like that every night, they are in good shape. Other than that. I didn't think the McDavid line was that great. They seemed off. The 3rd line wasn't good at all. The 4th line was just meh. Defensively Klefbom-Larsson I didn't think were on. I thought Russel was decent, Sekera was OK. Benning was terrible from the start and didn't seem to know what he was doing defensively what so ever. He played less than 10 mins and might not have deserved even that much. Nurse I thought was decent in the first but then seemed to forget what he was supposed to do in the last 2 periods and he played just over 13 mins. I didn't think Talbot was sharp but given the tire fire that Benning and Nurse were as a pair and most of the Kings goals where scored when they were on the ice, I am not blaming him much.

I think first is out of the question. They have a game in hand on the Ducks but are 4 pts back with 3 games to go tall order and they need to Ducks to lose their last 2. The Sharks are tied with the Oilers but have one less game so I think second is realistic.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690344 is a reply to message #690342 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5380
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 11:28

Disappointing game. I was a little surprised had how hard the Kings came at the Oilers with absolutely nothing to play for. So credit to them. If you go look at their minutes, it was business as usual for the Kings. All the old guys are getting big minutes, all the young guys are getting squat. The Kings need to get younger and faster up front. Brodzinski who was pretty good played less than 12 mins. Kempe who looked decent played 13 mins. Dustin Brown, one of the guys they are probably dying to get rid of and is exhibit A of who needs to go, played 17:24. Why? I heard a Kings reporter on Stauffers show saying the Kings need to get younger and faster up front and they need another good dman who can move the puck. Doughty played over 26 mins. Martinez played over 23 mins. Muzzin played over 21. All those guys have secure jobs. LaDue, a young up and comer played under 12 mins. Why is Doughty playing 26 mins in a game that means nothing to the Kings. Here is a good chance to see what LaDue can do against a good team playing a game that means something. You of course want to try to win so you don't sit Doughty but playing him 26 mins is insane when it means nothing. There is no value to the Kings or Doughty moving forward to play him 26 mins in game 79 when you aren't going to the playoffs. Here is a perfect chance to see what a young guy can do with nothing to lose. So what Sutter did with player utilization I thought was stupid and I was Lombardi, I'd be giving him crap but I doubt it will happen.

That being said, the Oilers didn't play well enough to win. I thought Nuge was excellent (please continue that). I thought Eberle was pretty decent and actually seemed a little scrappy (please continue that). I thought Lucic continued to be his was very effective self that he has been for the last month and a half. If the Oilers can get all 3 playing like that every night, they are in good shape. Other than that. I didn't think the McDavid line was that great. They seemed off. The 3rd line wasn't good at all. The 4th line was just meh. Defensively Klefbom-Larsson I didn't think were on. I thought Russel was decent, Sekera was OK. Benning was terrible from the start and didn't seem to know what he was doing defensively what so ever. He played less than 10 mins and might not have deserved even that much. Nurse I thought was decent in the first but then seemed to forget what he was supposed to do in the last 2 periods and he played just over 13 mins. I didn't think Talbot was sharp but given the tire fire that Benning and Nurse were as a pair and most of the Kings goals where scored when they were on the ice, I am not blaming him much.

I think first is out of the question. They have a game in hand on the Ducks but are 4 pts back with 3 games to go tall order and they need to Ducks to lose their last 2. The Sharks are tied with the Oilers but have one less game so I think second is realistic.


Benning seemed small, and out of position a lot.....he's a better player than what he showed last night. I was actually surprised Gryba didn't start this game. Nurse was better, but a sub-par performance from him as well. The D in general will have to deal with some ferocity on the rush, on the cycle, and on the forecheck in the playoffs, hope they're up to it.

That 2nd line has to provide a secondary threat like they did last night, even though the 1st line didn't have its usual dominance going. Eberle had 2-3 really good looks, but the guy that used to be money on those looks in tight is missing a lot, it has to come. Last night was one of Nuge's best of the season. I hope these two elevate their games for their first sniff of playoffs in their NHL careers. For the Oilers to have any success in the postseason, I think it hinges on the 2nd line and the 2nd PP unit.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690346 is a reply to message #690344 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 12:38

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 11:28

Disappointing game. I was a little surprised had how hard the Kings came at the Oilers with absolutely nothing to play for. So credit to them. If you go look at their minutes, it was business as usual for the Kings. All the old guys are getting big minutes, all the young guys are getting squat. The Kings need to get younger and faster up front. Brodzinski who was pretty good played less than 12 mins. Kempe who looked decent played 13 mins. Dustin Brown, one of the guys they are probably dying to get rid of and is exhibit A of who needs to go, played 17:24. Why? I heard a Kings reporter on Stauffers show saying the Kings need to get younger and faster up front and they need another good dman who can move the puck. Doughty played over 26 mins. Martinez played over 23 mins. Muzzin played over 21. All those guys have secure jobs. LaDue, a young up and comer played under 12 mins. Why is Doughty playing 26 mins in a game that means nothing to the Kings. Here is a good chance to see what LaDue can do against a good team playing a game that means something. You of course want to try to win so you don't sit Doughty but playing him 26 mins is insane when it means nothing. There is no value to the Kings or Doughty moving forward to play him 26 mins in game 79 when you aren't going to the playoffs. Here is a perfect chance to see what a young guy can do with nothing to lose. So what Sutter did with player utilization I thought was stupid and I was Lombardi, I'd be giving him crap but I doubt it will happen.

That being said, the Oilers didn't play well enough to win. I thought Nuge was excellent (please continue that). I thought Eberle was pretty decent and actually seemed a little scrappy (please continue that). I thought Lucic continued to be his was very effective self that he has been for the last month and a half. If the Oilers can get all 3 playing like that every night, they are in good shape. Other than that. I didn't think the McDavid line was that great. They seemed off. The 3rd line wasn't good at all. The 4th line was just meh. Defensively Klefbom-Larsson I didn't think were on. I thought Russel was decent, Sekera was OK. Benning was terrible from the start and didn't seem to know what he was doing defensively what so ever. He played less than 10 mins and might not have deserved even that much. Nurse I thought was decent in the first but then seemed to forget what he was supposed to do in the last 2 periods and he played just over 13 mins. I didn't think Talbot was sharp but given the tire fire that Benning and Nurse were as a pair and most of the Kings goals where scored when they were on the ice, I am not blaming him much.

I think first is out of the question. They have a game in hand on the Ducks but are 4 pts back with 3 games to go tall order and they need to Ducks to lose their last 2. The Sharks are tied with the Oilers but have one less game so I think second is realistic.


Benning seemed small, and out of position a lot.....he's a better player than what he showed last night. I was actually surprised Gryba didn't start this game. Nurse was better, but a sub-par performance from him as well. The D in general will have to deal with some ferocity on the rush, on the cycle, and on the forecheck in the playoffs, hope they're up to it.

That 2nd line has to provide a secondary threat like they did last night, even though the 1st line didn't have its usual dominance going. Eberle had 2-3 really good looks, but the guy that used to be money on those looks in tight is missing a lot, it has to come. Last night was one of Nuge's best of the season. I hope these two elevate their games for their first sniff of playoffs in their NHL careers. For the Oilers to have any success in the postseason, I think it hinges on the 2nd line and the 2nd PP unit.


Benning was out of position all night and got out battled in front of the net several times. One for sure resulted in a goal. I agree with you, I would have played Gryba against the Kings. I hope it was a one off for Benning. The playoffs only get tougher.

One person I want to bring up is Lucic. He's been an absolute force the last 4-6 weeks. No one mentions it but he had 20 goals, 45 pts, 3 hits shy of 200. On the ice his presence is hard to miss. Off the ice, he's an assistant captain, gets interviewed a ton so you know he's one of their big time leaders and is one of the guys that has changed how the Oilers play and their culture. Plus he's been a massive help for McDavid in the leadership department as McDavid himself has said many times Lucic has been huge for him.

I personally think Lucic is earning every penny. I had said early on I was expecting at least 20 goals, 50 pts and over 200 hits plus bringing all the other things he brings. Well he's brought all the other things he brings, size, nasty, leadership, experience, culture changer. He's got his 20 goals. He's going to get his over 200 hits and he will get damn close to 50 pts. So in my opinion, I think it's pretty tough for anyone to complain about him. As the games get tougher, he's gotten better. I fully expect him to be a force in the playoffs.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690352 is a reply to message #690346 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 12975
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 13:17



One person I want to bring up is Lucic. He's been an absolute force the last 4-6 weeks. No one mentions it but he had 20 goals, 45 pts, 3 hits shy of 200. On the ice his presence is hard to miss. Off the ice, he's an assistant captain, gets interviewed a ton so you know he's one of their big time leaders and is one of the guys that has changed how the Oilers play and their culture. Plus he's been a massive help for McDavid in the leadership department as McDavid himself has said many times Lucic has been huge for him.

I personally think Lucic is earning every penny. I had said early on I was expecting at least 20 goals, 50 pts and over 200 hits plus bringing all the other things he brings. Well he's brought all the other things he brings, size, nasty, leadership, experience, culture changer. He's got his 20 goals. He's going to get his over 200 hits and he will get damn close to 50 pts. So in my opinion, I think it's pretty tough for anyone to complain about him. As the games get tougher, he's gotten better. I fully expect him to be a force in the playoffs.


It's interesting...you are over the moon about Lucic, but pretty down on Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins.

So far this year:

Eberle - 79GP 16-30-46
Lucic - 79GP 20-25-45
Nugent-Hopkins - 79GP 18-23-41

Of these three, only Lucic gets the push on the powerplay, playing first unit all season. Here's their PP stats:

Lucic - 10-13-23 215:09 - 6.41 PPPts/60
Eberle - 3-10-13 176:48 - 4.41 PPPts/60
Nugent-Hopkins - 5-6-11 147:46 - 4.47 PPPts/60

Lucic is benefiting from more powerplay time, and playing with McDavid on that unit, so not surprising to see that his stats get a push there.

That does leave ES numbers of

Eberle - 13-20-33 1153:29 1.71 ESPts/60
Nugent-Hopkins - 13-17-30 1119:52 1.61ESPts/60
Lucic - 10-13-23 1145:06 1.20 ESPts/60

Clearly, the two long-time Oilers have been a lot more effective at even strength, and again, Lucic has gotten more of a push than the other two with more time on the top line...WAY more time than Nugent-Hopkins in fact. Despite that, Nuge is providing almost a half a point per 60 more than Lucic. Nugent-Hopkins is also asked to penalty kill, which neither of the other two are.

I've been happy with Lucic's play lately as well. I think that that whole second line has been a lot better since sometime in February. But I think it's hard to say that Lucic has been worth every penny with one breath, while at the same time suggesting that Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins are basically robbing the team blind for their play.




"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690355 is a reply to message #690352 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 14:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 13:17



One person I want to bring up is Lucic. He's been an absolute force the last 4-6 weeks. No one mentions it but he had 20 goals, 45 pts, 3 hits shy of 200. On the ice his presence is hard to miss. Off the ice, he's an assistant captain, gets interviewed a ton so you know he's one of their big time leaders and is one of the guys that has changed how the Oilers play and their culture. Plus he's been a massive help for McDavid in the leadership department as McDavid himself has said many times Lucic has been huge for him.

I personally think Lucic is earning every penny. I had said early on I was expecting at least 20 goals, 50 pts and over 200 hits plus bringing all the other things he brings. Well he's brought all the other things he brings, size, nasty, leadership, experience, culture changer. He's got his 20 goals. He's going to get his over 200 hits and he will get damn close to 50 pts. So in my opinion, I think it's pretty tough for anyone to complain about him. As the games get tougher, he's gotten better. I fully expect him to be a force in the playoffs.


It's interesting...you are over the moon about Lucic, but pretty down on Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins.

So far this year:

Eberle - 79GP 16-30-46
Lucic - 79GP 20-25-45
Nugent-Hopkins - 79GP 18-23-41

Of these three, only Lucic gets the push on the powerplay, playing first unit all season. Here's their PP stats:

Lucic - 10-13-23 215:09 - 6.41 PPPts/60
Eberle - 3-10-13 176:48 - 4.41 PPPts/60
Nugent-Hopkins - 5-6-11 147:46 - 4.47 PPPts/60

Lucic is benefiting from more powerplay time, and playing with McDavid on that unit, so not surprising to see that his stats get a push there.

That does leave ES numbers of

Eberle - 13-20-33 1153:29 1.71 ESPts/60
Nugent-Hopkins - 13-17-30 1119:52 1.61ESPts/60
Lucic - 10-13-23 1145:06 1.20 ESPts/60

Clearly, the two long-time Oilers have been a lot more effective at even strength, and again, Lucic has gotten more of a push than the other two with more time on the top line...WAY more time than Nugent-Hopkins in fact. Despite that, Nuge is providing almost a half a point per 60 more than Lucic. Nugent-Hopkins is also asked to penalty kill, which neither of the other two are.

I've been happy with Lucic's play lately as well. I think that that whole second line has been a lot better since sometime in February. But I think it's hard to say that Lucic has been worth every penny with one breath, while at the same time suggesting that Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins are basically robbing the team blind for their play.



I'm "over the moon" on Lucic because he was brought in and being paid to do certain things and he's doing those things. Lucic was brought in to:
Be a leader - He's got an A, the media talks to him all the time and his teammates especially the captain talk about his leadership and how much leadership he has brought.
Bring experience - He teammates have mentioned how Lucic has step up in the room and talked about past situations and how they got out of it.
Be a culture changer- The Oilers are a different team on and off the ice. He's help that. He's helped them kick the "Woe is me" attitude they had for years when things got tough.
Brought in to add size to the top 6, physical play, nastiness, toughness - He's going to get over 200 hits, he's fought some guys. Haven't seen to many Oilers get run like they used too. The whole team plays bigger and tougher and are harder to play against. He's been one of the guys that have helped that.
Brought in to be a big body presence in front of the goal and on the PP -He's done that. Got 10 PP goals.
Brought in to score some goals - He's got 20.

I don't care about the useless stats of points per 60 or whatever. I care about what the player is supposed to do, what he is being paid to do and if they are doing it. I listed about what Lucic's job is and what he was brought into do and he's doing it.

Why am I "Down" on Eberle. Eberle makes 6 mill to score. That's it. He's not a checker, he's not big or strong, or physical or hard to play against. He's not a PK or a shut down guy. He makes 6 mill a year to put up points. When he doesn't score, he does little for your team. Is it important for Eberle to be somewhat defensively responsible? Yes, all NHLers need too. But if you walk into Chia's office and ask him what are you paying Eberle to do. The first and most important thing he will say that Eberle's job is on the Oilers is score goals and put up points. That's it, end of story. He's got 16 goals and 46 pts. It's very doubtful he will score 20 goals and I don't even know if he will get 50 pts. When you are paid 6 mill a year and all you do is score points, that's pathetic production.

Why am I a bit "down" on Nuge? Nuge is paid 6 mill to be a good second line, 2 way center. A good 2 way center means you put up points AND you defend really well. Offensively he has 41 pts. That is lousy numbers for a second line center. A good second line center should be well over 20 goals and have 55-60 points. He hasn't done that in 2 seasons. A good 2 way center should be passable at faceoffs. He a pathetic 43.7 % and has been that basically his entire career so he hasn't improved at all. Defensively he's a team worse -12. DOUBLE Lucic who plays on his line. So you can't even say he's really good defensively.

If Eberle was mid 20's in goals and 60+ pts, like he is being paid to be, I would have no problem with him despite is few warts. If Nuge has 20+ goals, 55 pts, was close to 50% at faceoffs and at least even +/- I would have no problems with Nuge. But these guys aren't even close to that. The Oilers have 12 mill invested in 2 guys who are flat out not doing their jobs. In a cap world, you can't have that.

If those 2 were free agents and on July 1, Chia announced he just signed Eberle and Nuge to a 6 mill deal after coming off a below 20 goal, below 50pt season for Eberle and a below 50 pt, 43% faceoff, not great defensive year for Nuge, fans would freak out. But because they are on the team, that's ok?

[Updated on: Wed, 05 April 2017 15:32]


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690359 is a reply to message #690355 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 12975
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 15:19


I'm "over the moon" on Lucic because he was brought in and being paid to do certain things and he's doing those things. Lucic was brought in to:
Be a leader - He's got an A, the media talks to him all the time and his teammates especially the captain talk about his leadership and how much leadership he has brought.
Bring experience - He teammates have mentioned how Lucic has step up in the room and talked about past situations and how they got out of it.
Be a culture changer- The Oilers are a different team on and off the ice. He's help that. He's helped them kick the "Woe is me" attitude they had for years when things got tough.
Brought in to add size to the top 6, physical play, nastiness, toughness - He's going to get over 200 hits, he's fought some guys. Haven't seen to many Oilers get run like they used too. The whole team plays bigger and tougher and are harder to play against. He's been one of the guys that have helped that.
Brought in to be a big body presence in front of the goal and on the PP -He's done that. Got 10 PP goals.
Brought in to score some goals - He's got 20.

I don't care about the useless points per 60 you posted. I care about what the player is supposed to do and what he is being paid to do. If you look at his stats, he usually scores 20 or more goals, usually gets 50 or more points, has over 200 hits. Looks like he's going to be just shy of the 50 pts but get all the rest. If his linemates scored more like they are supposed too, he'd have over 50 pts easily. So yes I am very happy with Lucic because he was brought into do certain things and he's doing exactly those things.

Why am I "Down" on Eberle. Eberle makes 6 mill to score. That's it. He's not a checker, he's not big or strong, or physical. He's not a PK or a shut down guy. He makes 6 mill a year to put up points. When he doesn't score, he does little for your team. Is it important for Eberle to be somewhat defensively responsible? Yes, all NHLers need too. But if you walk into Chia's office and ask him what are you paying Eberle to do. The first thing and most important thing he will say that Eberle's job is on the Oilers is score goals and put up points. That's it, end of story. He's got 16 goals and 46 pts. It's very doubtful he will score 20 goals and I don't even know if he will get 50 pts. When you are paid 6 mill a year and all you do is score points, that's pathetic production.

Why am I a bit "down" on Nuge? Nuge is paid 6 mill to be a good second line, 2 way center. A good 2 way center means you put up points AND you defend really well. Offensively he has 41 pts. That is lousy numbers for a second line center. A good second line center should be well over 20 goals and have 55-60 points. He hasn't done that in 2 seasons. A good 2 way center should be passable at faceoffs. He a pathetic 43.7 % and has been that basically his entire career so he hasn't improved at all. Defensively he's a team worse -12. DOUBLE Lucic who plays on his line. So you can't even say he's really good defensively.

If Eberle was mid 20's in goals and 60+ pts, like he is being paid to be, I would have no problem with him despite is few warts. If Nuge has 20+ goals, 55 pts, was close to 50% at faceoffs and at least even +/- I would have no problems with Nuge. But these guys aren't even close to that. The Oilers have 12 mill invested in 2 guys who are flat out not doing their jobs. In a cap world, you can't have that.


So basically, you think that Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins need to outscore Lucic and Maroon, because they're smaller and don't hit as much?

I put very little value on the whole "he's been there before" stuff. How much did Andrew Ference's winning attitude help the team? And I put even less stock in to how players answer the question of "How has so-and-so affected this room?" The canned answers about their impact are exactly the same, no matter who it is. I'm sure you could look back to any number of veterans brought in and find some audio of one of the young players waxing poetic about how great it has been to have them and their experience as part of the team.

And if you've ever been part of a sports team, you know that really, you affect your own play more than anyone else. Having another good player on the team is always a good thing, but how much off-ice impact does he likely have on anyone else's play? Likely very, very little if any. If anything, players who are new to a room have to be somewhat careful not to over-compare to their old surroundings, because it can alienate teammates quickly if every story starts with "when I was on the Bruins..."

41 points is low for a second line centre (although to be fair, Nugent-Hopkins played a portion of this year on the third line). It's not THAT far off though. He's tied for #61 among centers this season and that list includes guys like Draisaitl, who's played at least half the season on the wing.

Middle of the road for 2nd line centers? 45-51 points. #40 overall with 51 points is Bo Horvat (actually in 3-way tie for #39) and #50 with 45 points is Tyler Johnson (tied for #49 with three other players). One good game and Nugent-Hopkins could be right in that mix.

There's no doubt that all three of those players have had brutal seasons. Eberle's shooting percentage is 5% off his career average and over 6% lower than last year. He's actually going to finish with more shots this year than he's ever taken before, but he's not scoring at the same rate. Some of that is definitely luck-based...he's hit a lot of posts too. Some may, as kr55 has suggested, been related to him trying to change his shot over the summer to quicken his release.

And I disagree that Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins only jobs are to score. I think that they've both been asked by McLellan to play much more conservatively this season, and I think that has had an impact on their numbers (and possibly for Lucic, Pouliot and others). That said, if that IS your criteria, then you SHOULD care about the points/60 numbers that I posted. They show that both players are scoring at a significantly higher rate than Lucic at even strength (which is where they can be judged fairly evenly). In other words, they ARE producing significantly more than Lucic...which offsets whatever intangibles he brings that are actually worth anything (most of what hockey people talk about as intangibles is baloney talk for "I like the way he plays", but it means little unless it somehow translates to the scoreboard). If Lucic at his scoring rate, with his intangibles is worth $6MM, then wouldn't a player without those intangibles but who was scoring at a half a point more per 60 minutes be pretty close in value?

By the way, I'm pretty sure that your pre-season expectations of Lucic were for him to shatter his career highs this year...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690362 is a reply to message #690359 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 5420
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 15:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 15:19


I'm "over the moon" on Lucic because he was brought in and being paid to do certain things and he's doing those things. Lucic was brought in to:
Be a leader - He's got an A, the media talks to him all the time and his teammates especially the captain talk about his leadership and how much leadership he has brought.
Bring experience - He teammates have mentioned how Lucic has step up in the room and talked about past situations and how they got out of it.
Be a culture changer- The Oilers are a different team on and off the ice. He's help that. He's helped them kick the "Woe is me" attitude they had for years when things got tough.
Brought in to add size to the top 6, physical play, nastiness, toughness - He's going to get over 200 hits, he's fought some guys. Haven't seen to many Oilers get run like they used too. The whole team plays bigger and tougher and are harder to play against. He's been one of the guys that have helped that.
Brought in to be a big body presence in front of the goal and on the PP -He's done that. Got 10 PP goals.
Brought in to score some goals - He's got 20.

I don't care about the useless points per 60 you posted. I care about what the player is supposed to do and what he is being paid to do. If you look at his stats, he usually scores 20 or more goals, usually gets 50 or more points, has over 200 hits. Looks like he's going to be just shy of the 50 pts but get all the rest. If his linemates scored more like they are supposed too, he'd have over 50 pts easily. So yes I am very happy with Lucic because he was brought into do certain things and he's doing exactly those things.

Why am I "Down" on Eberle. Eberle makes 6 mill to score. That's it. He's not a checker, he's not big or strong, or physical. He's not a PK or a shut down guy. He makes 6 mill a year to put up points. When he doesn't score, he does little for your team. Is it important for Eberle to be somewhat defensively responsible? Yes, all NHLers need too. But if you walk into Chia's office and ask him what are you paying Eberle to do. The first thing and most important thing he will say that Eberle's job is on the Oilers is score goals and put up points. That's it, end of story. He's got 16 goals and 46 pts. It's very doubtful he will score 20 goals and I don't even know if he will get 50 pts. When you are paid 6 mill a year and all you do is score points, that's pathetic production.

Why am I a bit "down" on Nuge? Nuge is paid 6 mill to be a good second line, 2 way center. A good 2 way center means you put up points AND you defend really well. Offensively he has 41 pts. That is lousy numbers for a second line center. A good second line center should be well over 20 goals and have 55-60 points. He hasn't done that in 2 seasons. A good 2 way center should be passable at faceoffs. He a pathetic 43.7 % and has been that basically his entire career so he hasn't improved at all. Defensively he's a team worse -12. DOUBLE Lucic who plays on his line. So you can't even say he's really good defensively.

If Eberle was mid 20's in goals and 60+ pts, like he is being paid to be, I would have no problem with him despite is few warts. If Nuge has 20+ goals, 55 pts, was close to 50% at faceoffs and at least even +/- I would have no problems with Nuge. But these guys aren't even close to that. The Oilers have 12 mill invested in 2 guys who are flat out not doing their jobs. In a cap world, you can't have that.


So basically, you think that Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins need to outscore Lucic and Maroon, because they're smaller and don't hit as much?

I put very little value on the whole "he's been there before" stuff. How much did Andrew Ference's winning attitude help the team? And I put even less stock in to how players answer the question of "How has so-and-so affected this room?" The canned answers about their impact are exactly the same, no matter who it is. I'm sure you could look back to any number of veterans brought in and find some audio of one of the young players waxing poetic about how great it has been to have them and their experience as part of the team.

And if you've ever been part of a sports team, you know that really, you affect your own play more than anyone else. Having another good player on the team is always a good thing, but how much off-ice impact does he likely have on anyone else's play? Likely very, very little if any. If anything, players who are new to a room have to be somewhat careful not to over-compare to their old surroundings, because it can alienate teammates quickly if every story starts with "when I was on the Bruins..."

41 points is low for a second line centre (although to be fair, Nugent-Hopkins played a portion of this year on the third line). It's not THAT far off though. He's tied for #61 among centers this season and that list includes guys like Draisaitl, who's played at least half the season on the wing.

Middle of the road for 2nd line centers? 45-51 points. #40 overall with 51 points is Bo Horvat (actually in 3-way tie for #39) and #50 with 45 points is Tyler Johnson (tied for #49 with three other players). One good game and Nugent-Hopkins could be right in that mix.

There's no doubt that all three of those players have had brutal seasons. Eberle's shooting percentage is 5% off his career average and over 6% lower than last year. He's actually going to finish with more shots this year than he's ever taken before, but he's not scoring at the same rate. Some of that is definitely luck-based...he's hit a lot of posts too. Some may, as kr55 has suggested, been related to him trying to change his shot over the summer to quicken his release.

And I disagree that Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins only jobs are to score. I think that they've both been asked by McLellan to play much more conservatively this season, and I think that has had an impact on their numbers (and possibly for Lucic, Pouliot and others). That said, if that IS your criteria, then you SHOULD care about the points/60 numbers that I posted. They show that both players are scoring at a significantly higher rate than Lucic at even strength (which is where they can be judged fairly evenly). In other words, they ARE producing significantly more than Lucic...which offsets whatever intangibles he brings that are actually worth anything (most of what hockey people talk about as intangibles is baloney talk for "I like the way he plays", but it means little unless it somehow translates to the scoreboard). If Lucic at his scoring rate, with his intangibles is worth $6MM, then wouldn't a player without those intangibles but who was scoring at a half a point more per 60 minutes be pretty close in value?

By the way, I'm pretty sure that your pre-season expectations of Lucic were for him to shatter his career highs this year...


I said at the beginning of the year, I expected Lucic to score more than 20 goals and more than 50 pts playing with McDavid. I said if he played with McDavid, it wouldn't surprise me if he scored way more. It didn't work out. But he's still been productive. Eberle was also supposed to be McDavid's trigger man. He sucks with McDavid because he can't shoot. So not everything works out according to plan.

For Nuge & Eberle. If you are happy with Nuge being the worse +/- player on the team, scoring less than 45 pts and being horrible at faceoffs and you think he's good value at 6 mill, that's your opinion. If you also think Eberle scoring less than 20 goals and maybe 50 pts if he is lucky is worth 6 mill, that's your opinion too. I think they are totally wrong but you are entitled to your opinion.

If you also think that McLellan is super happy that Nuge and Eberle are scoring way below, even though he mentions those guys at times by name as needing to pick it up, that's your opinion. If you think he goes and tells them don't worry about scoring guys just play defense, defense, defense even though they are 2/3 of their second line. Again that's your opinion. If you think Chia and McLellan are wanting to turn Nuge and Eberle into shut down guys and think they are getting full value from the 12 mill they pay them, that is your opinion. I think your opinion is dead wrong and one of them will get dumped because they are so grossly overpaid for what they now bring, but you are entitled to your opinion.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690366 is a reply to message #690362 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21  is currently offline Gator21
Messages: 273
Registered: February 2016
Location: Kelowna, BC

No Cups

Ah yes, another thread devolved into an Adam/RDOF pissing match. Awesome icon_thumbsup


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690367 is a reply to message #690366 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
Messages: 1449
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

1 Cup

Gator21 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 17:27

Ah yes, another thread devolved into an Adam/RDOF pissing match. Awesome icon_thumbsup


If the Oilers win the Stanley Cup this year both Adam and RDOF should agree on meeting and giving each other a hug and proving it with a picture. Or if they are feeling really giddy from an Oiler Stanley Cup victory - an open mouth kiss. Either one works.



"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690412 is a reply to message #690367 ]
Thu, 06 April 2017 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
Messages: 8718
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

6 Cups

WhoreableGuy wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 20:17

Gator21 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 17:27

Ah yes, another thread devolved into an Adam/RDOF pissing match. Awesome icon_thumbsup


If the Oilers win the Stanley Cup this year both Adam and RDOF should agree on meeting and giving each other a hug and proving it with a picture. Or if they are feeling really giddy from an Oiler Stanley Cup victory - an open mouth kiss. Either one works.

No.

I like it this way more.



#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690413 is a reply to message #690412 ]
Thu, 06 April 2017 20:05 Go to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 12975
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

g2k wrote on Thu, 06 April 2017 18:40

WhoreableGuy wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 20:17

Gator21 wrote on Wed, 05 April 2017 17:27

Ah yes, another thread devolved into an Adam/RDOF pissing match. Awesome icon_thumbsup


If the Oilers win the Stanley Cup this year both Adam and RDOF should agree on meeting and giving each other a hug and proving it with a picture. Or if they are feeling really giddy from an Oiler Stanley Cup victory - an open mouth kiss. Either one works.

No.

I like it this way more.


Me too!

I actually appreciate having the dissenting viewpoint - if nothing else, RDOF serves as a foil that allows me to present numerical based arguments to prove my point (or disprove his). I find whenever I need to do that that I learn something from that every time. I had no idea until I ran the numbers how much better Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins were out scoring Lucic at evens, even in their admittedly off seasons.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: GDT: Edmonton @ Los Angeles (Game #79) [message #690368 is a reply to message #690273 ]
Wed, 05 April 2017 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
Messages: 727
Registered: October 2014

No Cups

Nice to see Hopkins waking up offensively, could be huge in the playoffs! Have to agree with RD, these guys didn't really show up for a lot of the games this season. It's as tho they are content to sit back and let McD line carry the load. Please show up for the playoffs!

[Updated on: Thu, 06 April 2017 19:14]


Send a private message to this user  

Pages (2): [ «  <  1  2]  
Previous Topic:GDT: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #80)
Next Topic:Pregame: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #80)
Oilers NHL Minors Speculation For Sale 


Copyright © OilFans.com 1996-2022.
All content is property of OilFans.com and cannot be used without expressed, written consent from this site.
Questions, comments and suggestions can be directed to oilfans@OilFans.com
Privacy Statement


Hosted by LogicalHosting.ca