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 Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683045]
Tue, 06 December 2016 03:00 Go to next message
OilFans is currently offline OilFans
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2016-17 Regular Season
Sunday, October 16, 2016Buffalo 6 @ Edmonton 2Loss
Tuesday, December 6, 2016Edmonton 3 @ Buffalo 4 (OT)Loss
Home Record: 0-1-0       Road Record: 0-0-1       Overall Record: 0-1-1
Home / Road Goals For: 2/3 Total: 5
Home / Road Goals Against: 6/4 Total: 10

2015-16 Regular Season
Sunday, December 6, 2015Buffalo 2 @ Edmonton 4Win
Tuesday, March 1, 2016Edmonton 2 @ Buffalo 1 (OT)Win
Home Record: 1-0-0       Road Record: 1-0-0       Overall Record: 2-0-0
Home / Road Goals For: 4/2 Total: 6
Home / Road Goals Against: 2/1 Total: 3



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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683055 is a reply to message #683045 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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The Oilers need to take care of business tonight and on Dec 8th against the Flyers. Buffalo is banged up and is the second lowest scoring team in the league. They played last night and Eichel even tweaked his ankle. If he does play, I would give him a good wack on the ankle in the scrum real early.



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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683057 is a reply to message #683045 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683061 is a reply to message #683057 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 09:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


It's the trickle down effect. They've been willing to put up with a less than ideal front office for a decade, so that's just the way things are done in Oilerville.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683062 is a reply to message #683057 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


I think you are looking at the bottom of the roster coming in and out. While I have liked Slepychev overall he hasn't earned a full time job. As far as Pouliot I think he has played his way out of the lineup. He is now in the "he is what he is" group for me and what he is seems to be nothing very valuable to this team moving forward.
Hendricks is also in the is what he is group but at least he brings effort. I would rather see Pitlick as well but this might be a case of not having too much youth/learning players in the linup at once.
If you put the players in two groups, improving, are what they are, you can then split the are what they are into "are useful" and "are not". The improving group is split into earned a full time spot and not.
I think you have Slepychev, and Pitlick in the improving but not full time yet and Pouliot and Hendricks in the other.
My long winded answer is me saying I think this is just them adding some veteran effort to the young guys lineup.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683064 is a reply to message #683062 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 10:37

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


I think you are looking at the bottom of the roster coming in and out. While I have liked Slepychev overall he hasn't earned a full time job. As far as Pouliot I think he has played his way out of the lineup. He is now in the "he is what he is" group for me and what he is seems to be nothing very valuable to this team moving forward.
Hendricks is also in the is what he is group but at least he brings effort. I would rather see Pitlick as well but this might be a case of not having too much youth/learning players in the linup at once.
If you put the players in two groups, improving, are what they are, you can then split the are what they are into "are useful" and "are not". The improving group is split into earned a full time spot and not.
I think you have Slepychev, and Pitlick in the improving but not full time yet and Pouliot and Hendricks in the other.
My long winded answer is me saying I think this is just them adding some veteran effort to the young guys lineup.



I have no issue with Slepyshev swapping spots with Puljujarvi, but Hendricks won't get out of single digit points this year. Pouliot is having a disappointing season, but he's already at 5 points. I care very little about effort without talent. If you're a fading fourth liner, you better bring lots of effort, but for me, I'd rather see Pouliot - who actually has a chance of impacting the game, rather than #23.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683067 is a reply to message #683064 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 10:56

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 10:37

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


I think you are looking at the bottom of the roster coming in and out. While I have liked Slepychev overall he hasn't earned a full time job. As far as Pouliot I think he has played his way out of the lineup. He is now in the "he is what he is" group for me and what he is seems to be nothing very valuable to this team moving forward.
Hendricks is also in the is what he is group but at least he brings effort. I would rather see Pitlick as well but this might be a case of not having too much youth/learning players in the linup at once.
If you put the players in two groups, improving, are what they are, you can then split the are what they are into "are useful" and "are not". The improving group is split into earned a full time spot and not.
I think you have Slepychev, and Pitlick in the improving but not full time yet and Pouliot and Hendricks in the other.
My long winded answer is me saying I think this is just them adding some veteran effort to the young guys lineup.



I have no issue with Slepyshev swapping spots with Puljujarvi, but Hendricks won't get out of single digit points this year. Pouliot is having a disappointing season, but he's already at 5 points. I care very little about effort without talent. If you're a fading fourth liner, you better bring lots of effort, but for me, I'd rather see Pouliot - who actually has a chance of impacting the game, rather than #23.


The guy I think could probably move in and out of the lineup a little more than he is, is Zack Kassian.

He's been fine, and he always looks dangerous, but he never has put up points, and he's not putting up points this year. He adds something to the lineup, but if you are looking for guys to rotate in and out of the lineup, Kassian can join the likes of Hendricks and Slepyshev. I think Puljujarvi should be Bakersfield-bound rather than in and out, and for me, Pitlick likely stays in - he's putting up points and has been a positive contributor every game he's played this year.

Pouliot - man, I don't know. Based on previous seasons, yes, you're right. Based on this year, he has to be in that mix of moving in and out of the lineup too. He's been very bad, and honestly, I'm so frustrated and angry with his play this year, it's really hard for me to objectively defend him. For me, him and RNH have been the most disappointing Oilers this year as far as failing to deliver on expectations. While you may be right, I honestly have no hard feelings seeing him in the pressbox. The Oilers haven't looked any better with him in the lineup than they have with him out of the lineup.

FWIW, the Points Per Game for Hendricks (0.20) are almost the same as they are for Pouliot (0.21) and Kassian (0.25), despite having fewer games, no powerplay time, and less talented linemates. Small sample size that won't last, but that's actually how bad Pouliot has been this year.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 11:13]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683071 is a reply to message #683067 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 10:56

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 10:37

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


I think you are looking at the bottom of the roster coming in and out. While I have liked Slepychev overall he hasn't earned a full time job. As far as Pouliot I think he has played his way out of the lineup. He is now in the "he is what he is" group for me and what he is seems to be nothing very valuable to this team moving forward.
Hendricks is also in the is what he is group but at least he brings effort. I would rather see Pitlick as well but this might be a case of not having too much youth/learning players in the linup at once.
If you put the players in two groups, improving, are what they are, you can then split the are what they are into "are useful" and "are not". The improving group is split into earned a full time spot and not.
I think you have Slepychev, and Pitlick in the improving but not full time yet and Pouliot and Hendricks in the other.
My long winded answer is me saying I think this is just them adding some veteran effort to the young guys lineup.



I have no issue with Slepyshev swapping spots with Puljujarvi, but Hendricks won't get out of single digit points this year. Pouliot is having a disappointing season, but he's already at 5 points. I care very little about effort without talent. If you're a fading fourth liner, you better bring lots of effort, but for me, I'd rather see Pouliot - who actually has a chance of impacting the game, rather than #23.


The guy I think could probably move in and out of the lineup a little more than he is, is Zack Kassian.

He's been fine, and he always looks dangerous, but he never has put up points, and he's not putting up points this year. He adds something to the lineup, but if you are looking for guys to rotate in and out of the lineup, Kassian can join the likes of Hendricks and Slepyshev. I think Puljujarvi should be Bakersfield-bound rather than in and out, and for me, Pitlick likely stays in - he's putting up points and has been a positive contributor every game he's played this year.

Pouliot - man, I don't know. Based on previous seasons, yes, you're right. Based on this year, he has to be in that mix of moving in and out of the lineup too. He's been very bad, and honestly, I'm so frustrated and angry with his play this year, it's really hard for me to objectively defend him. For me, him and RNH have been the most disappointing Oilers this year as far as failing to deliver on expectations. While you may be right, I honestly have no hard feelings seeing him in the pressbox. The Oilers haven't looked any better with him in the lineup than they have with him out of the lineup.

FWIW, the Points Per Game for Hendricks (0.20) are almost the same as they are for Pouliot (0.21) and Kassian (0.25), despite having fewer games, no powerplay time, and less talented linemates. Small sample size that won't last, but that's actually how bad Pouliot has been this year.


That sample size is too small to count. He's got a single assist in 5 games. That's basically the same as Fayne's points/60 stat. It's not representative at all.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683074 is a reply to message #683071 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:21

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:08

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 10:56

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 10:37

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


I think you are looking at the bottom of the roster coming in and out. While I have liked Slepychev overall he hasn't earned a full time job. As far as Pouliot I think he has played his way out of the lineup. He is now in the "he is what he is" group for me and what he is seems to be nothing very valuable to this team moving forward.
Hendricks is also in the is what he is group but at least he brings effort. I would rather see Pitlick as well but this might be a case of not having too much youth/learning players in the linup at once.
If you put the players in two groups, improving, are what they are, you can then split the are what they are into "are useful" and "are not". The improving group is split into earned a full time spot and not.
I think you have Slepychev, and Pitlick in the improving but not full time yet and Pouliot and Hendricks in the other.
My long winded answer is me saying I think this is just them adding some veteran effort to the young guys lineup.



I have no issue with Slepyshev swapping spots with Puljujarvi, but Hendricks won't get out of single digit points this year. Pouliot is having a disappointing season, but he's already at 5 points. I care very little about effort without talent. If you're a fading fourth liner, you better bring lots of effort, but for me, I'd rather see Pouliot - who actually has a chance of impacting the game, rather than #23.


The guy I think could probably move in and out of the lineup a little more than he is, is Zack Kassian.

He's been fine, and he always looks dangerous, but he never has put up points, and he's not putting up points this year. He adds something to the lineup, but if you are looking for guys to rotate in and out of the lineup, Kassian can join the likes of Hendricks and Slepyshev. I think Puljujarvi should be Bakersfield-bound rather than in and out, and for me, Pitlick likely stays in - he's putting up points and has been a positive contributor every game he's played this year.

Pouliot - man, I don't know. Based on previous seasons, yes, you're right. Based on this year, he has to be in that mix of moving in and out of the lineup too. He's been very bad, and honestly, I'm so frustrated and angry with his play this year, it's really hard for me to objectively defend him. For me, him and RNH have been the most disappointing Oilers this year as far as failing to deliver on expectations. While you may be right, I honestly have no hard feelings seeing him in the pressbox. The Oilers haven't looked any better with him in the lineup than they have with him out of the lineup.

FWIW, the Points Per Game for Hendricks (0.20) are almost the same as they are for Pouliot (0.21) and Kassian (0.25), despite having fewer games, no powerplay time, and less talented linemates. Small sample size that won't last, but that's actually how bad Pouliot has been this year.


That sample size is too small to count. He's got a single assist in 5 games. That's basically the same as Fayne's points/60 stat. It's not representative at all.


Right, but what is a good sample size is Pouliot's 24 games. He's been bad.

I agree with you that there's a net positive having Pouliot in over Hendricks, but I think we feel the gap of that net positive varies. I'm unimpressed with Pouliot and thinks he's been a negative contributor on as many nights as he's been a positive one this year. But I'm sour on him, so grain of salt I guess.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 11:32]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683102 is a reply to message #683064 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:56

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 10:37

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


I think you are looking at the bottom of the roster coming in and out. While I have liked Slepychev overall he hasn't earned a full time job. As far as Pouliot I think he has played his way out of the lineup. He is now in the "he is what he is" group for me and what he is seems to be nothing very valuable to this team moving forward.
Hendricks is also in the is what he is group but at least he brings effort. I would rather see Pitlick as well but this might be a case of not having too much youth/learning players in the linup at once.
If you put the players in two groups, improving, are what they are, you can then split the are what they are into "are useful" and "are not". The improving group is split into earned a full time spot and not.
I think you have Slepychev, and Pitlick in the improving but not full time yet and Pouliot and Hendricks in the other.
My long winded answer is me saying I think this is just them adding some veteran effort to the young guys lineup.



I have no issue with Slepyshev swapping spots with Puljujarvi, but Hendricks won't get out of single digit points this year. Pouliot is having a disappointing season, but he's already at 5 points. I care very little about effort without talent. If you're a fading fourth liner, you better bring lots of effort, but for me, I'd rather see Pouliot - who actually has a chance of impacting the game, rather than #23.


All true and I agree with you. I wasn't disagreeing in this case but rather saying the logic of the Oilers was to not put all the young guys in at the same time.
Fun polarization that the team has always wanted to rush every high pick rookie but now we have a few developing players and they seem to be rotating item in and out

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683066 is a reply to message #683057 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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If the fortunes of the team are based on swapping out a tweener NHLer in Slep and Pouliot who looks like a skating corpse out there, then the Oilers are in real trouble.

If Pouliot was playing remotely well, then yes taking him out is a mistake. He's not. He was awful early on, got sat for 3 games. Came back and has done almost nothing again. Pouliot isn't even bringing any kind of energy. In Hendricks. He's probably closing in on the end of his career and probably not an every day guy anymore. But for tonight's game, you at least know he's going to come out and give you what he's got, he's going to dive in front of a puck with his face if necessary and being that he sat for a few games, he's going to bring energy to the room because the players list that as one of his attributes he brings and he's going to come out with some energy on the ice.

What's Pouliot going to do most likely? Come out over the boards, skate up and down the wings, do a couple of twirls, maybe register a shot then sit back on the bench and take a drink. This season he is showing that you aren't going to get much out of him even in a 3rd line role. So if you bump him down to the 4th line, what's he going to do there? I have always felt the role of the 4th line is to be physical, bring energy and once in awhile chip in a goal. Pouliot last game in over 15 mins on a line with 2 other offensive players did nothing. This from a guy who's position and roster spot is in question. How motivated is he going to be on a 4th line. Like I said, at least you know Hendricks is going to come out and give you what he's got

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 11:12]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683069 is a reply to message #683066 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Why the hell is Puljujarvi still here!?

Is it team policy to burn through every rookie's entry level contact as soon as possible?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683072 is a reply to message #683069 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:19

Why the hell is Puljujarvi still here!?

Is it team policy to burn through every rookie's entry level contact as soon as possible?


You'll be thrilled to see Bob McKenzie's tweet on Puljujarvi today...said that if Finland asks about him for World Juniors, the Oilers have indicated it will be a hard no.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683076 is a reply to message #683072 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:22

Magnum wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:19

Why the hell is Puljujarvi still here!?

Is it team policy to burn through every rookie's entry level contact as soon as possible?


You'll be thrilled to see Bob McKenzie's tweet on Puljujarvi today...said that if Finland asks about him for World Juniors, the Oilers have indicated it will be a hard no.


I don't understand what they are doing with him. This just screams same old, same old (Nurse, Yakupov, Gagner, Paajarvi, Schultz, etc.)

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683078 is a reply to message #683076 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:30

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:22

Magnum wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:19

Why the hell is Puljujarvi still here!?

Is it team policy to burn through every rookie's entry level contact as soon as possible?


You'll be thrilled to see Bob McKenzie's tweet on Puljujarvi today...said that if Finland asks about him for World Juniors, the Oilers have indicated it will be a hard no.


I don't understand what they are doing with him. This just screams same old, same old (Nurse, Yakupov, Gagner, Paajarvi, Schultz, etc.)


Slight variation to most of those guys, with Pulju they are not playing him over his head for extended periods and letting his confidence erode (Gags, Schultz) and not being total a-holes to him for every mistake he makes (Yak). Magnus just never had it, timid player that was just never able to take charge of his career. Nurse was developed half way properly :) I think Nurse was actually taking a step this year and unfortunately got his injury.

For sure I would rather Pulju go to the AHL, but if he's sticking, I don't mind how we've handled him. He was getting some momentum in his game, we tried him with McDavid, he had a bit of a good run, but hit a road block and McLellan gave him a break before that roadblock turned into something bad for his confidence. Hopefully they're working hard with him in practice and off the ice, and he's working on his english and feeling more comfortable.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 11:37]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683082 is a reply to message #683078 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/line-combinations-at-morning -skate-in-buffalo/c-284425436?tid=281885062

Lucic-McDavid-Draisaitl
Maroon-RNH-Eberle
Puljujarvi-Caggiula-Kassian
Hendricks-Letestu-Pitlick

Pouliot and Slepyshev appear to be the odd-men out.

Russell-Larsson
Klefbom-Fayne
Sekera-Benning

Simpson and Davidson are paired up.

....Russell seems to be a polarizing figure...loved by Oiler brass, who payed him well for this season when he seemed to have no other offers and now apparently are looking to re-sign him for next season...some internet bloggers like Matt Henderson are ready to ship Russell away ASAP....

....not exactly sure how to interpret "Simpson and Davidson are paired up"...maybe Davidson is close to being able to play? (hope so)


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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683084 is a reply to message #683082 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:33

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/line-combinations-at-morning -skate-in-buffalo/c-284425436?tid=281885062

Lucic-McDavid-Draisaitl
Maroon-RNH-Eberle
Puljujarvi-Caggiula-Kassian
Hendricks-Letestu-Pitlick

Pouliot and Slepyshev appear to be the odd-men out.

Russell-Larsson
Klefbom-Fayne
Sekera-Benning

Simpson and Davidson are paired up.

....Russell seems to be a polarizing figure...loved by Oiler brass, who payed him well for this season when he seemed to have no other offers and now apparently are looking to re-sign him for next season...some internet bloggers like Matt Henderson are ready to ship Russell away ASAP....

....not exactly sure how to interpret "Simpson and Davidson are paired up"...maybe Davidson is close to being able to play? (hope so)



That Russell / Larsson pairing isn't doing either of them any favours. Both struggle to advance the puck; would make sense to put them with a partner who has that strength.

Me? I'd go with:

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Fayne
Russell / Benning

... at least until Davidson is back. I might then pull Fayne and play Davidson with either Sekera or Benning.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683085 is a reply to message #683084 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:45

GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:33

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/line-combinations-at-morning -skate-in-buffalo/c-284425436?tid=281885062

Lucic-McDavid-Draisaitl
Maroon-RNH-Eberle
Puljujarvi-Caggiula-Kassian
Hendricks-Letestu-Pitlick

Pouliot and Slepyshev appear to be the odd-men out.

Russell-Larsson
Klefbom-Fayne
Sekera-Benning

Simpson and Davidson are paired up.

....Russell seems to be a polarizing figure...loved by Oiler brass, who payed him well for this season when he seemed to have no other offers and now apparently are looking to re-sign him for next season...some internet bloggers like Matt Henderson are ready to ship Russell away ASAP....

....not exactly sure how to interpret "Simpson and Davidson are paired up"...maybe Davidson is close to being able to play? (hope so)



That Russell / Larsson pairing isn't doing either of them any favours. Both struggle to advance the puck; would make sense to put them with a partner who has that strength.

Me? I'd go with:

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Fayne
Russell / Benning

... at least until Davidson is back. I might then pull Fayne and play Davidson with either Sekera or Benning.


I'd swap Benning and Fayne. I know he's young but Benning to me is a superior player than Fayne, he brings way more. Benning makes the odd rookie mistake but not often. Once Davidson is back, I'd take Fayne out and have Russell/Davidson as the 3rd pairing.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683086 is a reply to message #683085 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:54

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:45

GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:33

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/line-combinations-at-morning -skate-in-buffalo/c-284425436?tid=281885062

Lucic-McDavid-Draisaitl
Maroon-RNH-Eberle
Puljujarvi-Caggiula-Kassian
Hendricks-Letestu-Pitlick

Pouliot and Slepyshev appear to be the odd-men out.

Russell-Larsson
Klefbom-Fayne
Sekera-Benning

Simpson and Davidson are paired up.

....Russell seems to be a polarizing figure...loved by Oiler brass, who payed him well for this season when he seemed to have no other offers and now apparently are looking to re-sign him for next season...some internet bloggers like Matt Henderson are ready to ship Russell away ASAP....

....not exactly sure how to interpret "Simpson and Davidson are paired up"...maybe Davidson is close to being able to play? (hope so)



That Russell / Larsson pairing isn't doing either of them any favours. Both struggle to advance the puck; would make sense to put them with a partner who has that strength.

Me? I'd go with:

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Fayne
Russell / Benning

... at least until Davidson is back. I might then pull Fayne and play Davidson with either Sekera or Benning.


I'd swap Benning and Fayne. I know he's young but Benning to me is a superior player than Fayne, he brings way more. Benning makes the odd rookie mistake but not often. Once Davidson is back, I'd take Fayne out and have Russell/Davidson as the 3rd pairing.


Problem is, Fayne isn't a very good puck mover either. I would say the three strongest are Klefbom, Sekera, Benning, so putting one with those who are not strong at the (Larsson, Fayne, Russell) in theory might help you get pinned in your own end less because both guys struggle to advance it north.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683089 is a reply to message #683086 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:54

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:45

GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:33

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/line-combinations-at-morning -skate-in-buffalo/c-284425436?tid=281885062

Lucic-McDavid-Draisaitl
Maroon-RNH-Eberle
Puljujarvi-Caggiula-Kassian
Hendricks-Letestu-Pitlick

Pouliot and Slepyshev appear to be the odd-men out.

Russell-Larsson
Klefbom-Fayne
Sekera-Benning

Simpson and Davidson are paired up.

....Russell seems to be a polarizing figure...loved by Oiler brass, who payed him well for this season when he seemed to have no other offers and now apparently are looking to re-sign him for next season...some internet bloggers like Matt Henderson are ready to ship Russell away ASAP....

....not exactly sure how to interpret "Simpson and Davidson are paired up"...maybe Davidson is close to being able to play? (hope so)



That Russell / Larsson pairing isn't doing either of them any favours. Both struggle to advance the puck; would make sense to put them with a partner who has that strength.

Me? I'd go with:

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Fayne
Russell / Benning

... at least until Davidson is back. I might then pull Fayne and play Davidson with either Sekera or Benning.


I'd swap Benning and Fayne. I know he's young but Benning to me is a superior player than Fayne, he brings way more. Benning makes the odd rookie mistake but not often. Once Davidson is back, I'd take Fayne out and have Russell/Davidson as the 3rd pairing.


Problem is, Fayne isn't a very good puck mover either. I would say the three strongest are Klefbom, Sekera, Benning, so putting one with those who are not strong at the (Larsson, Fayne, Russell) in theory might help you get pinned in your own end less because both guys struggle to advance it north.

My thinking is Sekera plays close to 20 mins a night most of the time. You put Fayne with Sekera, he's playing high teens a night at least. I want no part of Fayne playing anything more than 15 mins a night. In the 2 games he's played in, Fayne played 12:44 against the Ducks and 11:55 against the Wild and I thought he did a good job.

Plus since when is Russell a terrible puck mover? He might not be Karlsson but he skates pretty well and as a pairing, when he played the off side with Sekera the puck seemed to move north not too bad and it wasn't all Sekera doing it.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 13:23]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683090 is a reply to message #683089 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 13:21

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:54

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:45

GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:33

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/line-combinations-at-morning -skate-in-buffalo/c-284425436?tid=281885062

Lucic-McDavid-Draisaitl
Maroon-RNH-Eberle
Puljujarvi-Caggiula-Kassian
Hendricks-Letestu-Pitlick

Pouliot and Slepyshev appear to be the odd-men out.

Russell-Larsson
Klefbom-Fayne
Sekera-Benning

Simpson and Davidson are paired up.

....Russell seems to be a polarizing figure...loved by Oiler brass, who payed him well for this season when he seemed to have no other offers and now apparently are looking to re-sign him for next season...some internet bloggers like Matt Henderson are ready to ship Russell away ASAP....

....not exactly sure how to interpret "Simpson and Davidson are paired up"...maybe Davidson is close to being able to play? (hope so)



That Russell / Larsson pairing isn't doing either of them any favours. Both struggle to advance the puck; would make sense to put them with a partner who has that strength.

Me? I'd go with:

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Fayne
Russell / Benning

... at least until Davidson is back. I might then pull Fayne and play Davidson with either Sekera or Benning.


I'd swap Benning and Fayne. I know he's young but Benning to me is a superior player than Fayne, he brings way more. Benning makes the odd rookie mistake but not often. Once Davidson is back, I'd take Fayne out and have Russell/Davidson as the 3rd pairing.


Problem is, Fayne isn't a very good puck mover either. I would say the three strongest are Klefbom, Sekera, Benning, so putting one with those who are not strong at the (Larsson, Fayne, Russell) in theory might help you get pinned in your own end less because both guys struggle to advance it north.

My thinking is Sekera plays close to 20 mins a night most of the time. You put Fayne with Sekera, he's playing high teens a night at least. I want no part of Fayne playing anything more than 15 mins a night. In the 2 games he's played in, Fayne played 12:44 against the Ducks and 11:55 against the Wild and I thought he did a good job.

Plus since when is Russell a terrible puck mover? He might not be Karlsson but he skates pretty well and as a pairing, when he played the off side with Sekera the puck seemed to move north not too bad and it wasn't all Sekera doing it.


Russell isn't good at passing.

He's a good penalty killer because it plays to his strengths. Get in shooting lanes and bang the puck out. At even-strength, he struggles to move the puck up-ice efficiently. His preferred play is off the boards and out - surrendering possession back to the other team who just advance it back in to our zone again and again. It's a big reason that his advanced stats are so bad. He's not good at preventing zone entries, and he's not good at maintaining possession during zone exits.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683091 is a reply to message #683090 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan is currently online NZ Oiler Fan
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Location: Kensington, PEI
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Ugh. I know the Oilers brass seem to have a hard on for Russell, but I really really detest him on that first pairing with Larsson.
Just curious: Has anyone looked up Larsson's fancy stats before and after getting paired with Russell? My eye test has him falling drastically.
I'd have Sekera or Klefbom up there over Russell, who should really be on the third pairing. Nice to hear that Davidson could be returning this road trip - we've missed him.

Interesting that they have JP on the left wing. Wonder if he'll get a look on the pp. I'd probably rather have him on that first unit than Letestu

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683092 is a reply to message #683091 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:15

Ugh. I know the Oilers brass seem to have a hard on for Russell, but I really really detest him on that first pairing with Larsson.
Just curious: Has anyone looked up Larsson's fancy stats before and after getting paired with Russell? My eye test has him falling drastically.
I'd have Sekera or Klefbom up there over Russell, who should really be on the third pairing. Nice to hear that Davidson could be returning this road trip - we've missed him.

Interesting that they have JP on the left wing. Wonder if he'll get a look on the pp. I'd probably rather have him on that first unit than Letestu


Last stat that I saw had Russell crushing everyone's stats when paired with them. Basically everyone does better without him.

But David Staples likes him...so there's that?

As for Puljujarvi, I don't quite get why he doesn't get any top line PP time. Seems like a time where they could use his natural gifts and he'd have a little more space...and yet he never has seen a minute on the top PP to my knowledge.

To be fair to the coaching staff on that, he's done nothing in all his second unit minutes. I wonder what he could do on the top AHL unit PP for a little while?

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 14:27]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683094 is a reply to message #683091 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:15

Ugh. I know the Oilers brass seem to have a hard on for Russell, but I really really detest him on that first pairing with Larsson.
Just curious: Has anyone looked up Larsson's fancy stats before and after getting paired with Russell? My eye test has him falling drastically.
I'd have Sekera or Klefbom up there over Russell, who should really be on the third pairing. Nice to hear that Davidson could be returning this road trip - we've missed him.

Interesting that they have JP on the left wing. Wonder if he'll get a look on the pp. I'd probably rather have him on that first unit than Letestu


Larsson Corsi % with Russell: 37.76%
Larsson Corsi % without Russel: 51.84%

Russell without Larsson: 47.08%


Larsson overall this season: 50.23%
Russell overall this season: 45.55%


It's just a bad pair, period, you can very easily see both guys just throwing the puck away over and over when we are trying to break out. No idea what McLellan is trying to do there.

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683093 is a reply to message #683090 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 13:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 13:21

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:54

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:45

GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:33

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/line-combinations-at-morning -skate-in-buffalo/c-284425436?tid=281885062

Lucic-McDavid-Draisaitl
Maroon-RNH-Eberle
Puljujarvi-Caggiula-Kassian
Hendricks-Letestu-Pitlick

Pouliot and Slepyshev appear to be the odd-men out.

Russell-Larsson
Klefbom-Fayne
Sekera-Benning

Simpson and Davidson are paired up.

....Russell seems to be a polarizing figure...loved by Oiler brass, who payed him well for this season when he seemed to have no other offers and now apparently are looking to re-sign him for next season...some internet bloggers like Matt Henderson are ready to ship Russell away ASAP....

....not exactly sure how to interpret "Simpson and Davidson are paired up"...maybe Davidson is close to being able to play? (hope so)



That Russell / Larsson pairing isn't doing either of them any favours. Both struggle to advance the puck; would make sense to put them with a partner who has that strength.

Me? I'd go with:

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Fayne
Russell / Benning

... at least until Davidson is back. I might then pull Fayne and play Davidson with either Sekera or Benning.


I'd swap Benning and Fayne. I know he's young but Benning to me is a superior player than Fayne, he brings way more. Benning makes the odd rookie mistake but not often. Once Davidson is back, I'd take Fayne out and have Russell/Davidson as the 3rd pairing.


Problem is, Fayne isn't a very good puck mover either. I would say the three strongest are Klefbom, Sekera, Benning, so putting one with those who are not strong at the (Larsson, Fayne, Russell) in theory might help you get pinned in your own end less because both guys struggle to advance it north.

My thinking is Sekera plays close to 20 mins a night most of the time. You put Fayne with Sekera, he's playing high teens a night at least. I want no part of Fayne playing anything more than 15 mins a night. In the 2 games he's played in, Fayne played 12:44 against the Ducks and 11:55 against the Wild and I thought he did a good job.

Plus since when is Russell a terrible puck mover? He might not be Karlsson but he skates pretty well and as a pairing, when he played the off side with Sekera the puck seemed to move north not too bad and it wasn't all Sekera doing it.


Russell isn't good at passing.

He's a good penalty killer because it plays to his strengths. Get in shooting lanes and bang the puck out. At even-strength, he struggles to move the puck up-ice efficiently. His preferred play is off the boards and out - surrendering possession back to the other team who just advance it back in to our zone again and again. It's a big reason that his advanced stats are so bad. He's not good at preventing zone entries, and he's not good at maintaining possession during zone exits.


OK great. It still doesn't change the fact that when he was paired with Sekera he wasn't going Gryba and firing it off the glass every chance he got and they somehow are tied for first in their division with Sekera and Russell playing together for the majority of the season. I am not trying to beat the Russell drum nor do I think he should be an Oiler next season. I think he is and should be a 1 year, stop gap guy. But the guy has averaged over 21 mins a night so he must not be completely useless in other areas other than killing penalties and block shots. It also still doesn't change the fact that if you go with Might's suggestion and have Fayne with Sekera, you are playing a guy in Fayne who for the past 2 seasons has proven he can't be in your top 4 and have your defense be overly good.

So the question is, do you bite the bullet, put Benning with Sekera and have 2 decent NHL pairings - Klefbom/Larsson & Sekera/Benning - who are capable of giving you decent 20+ mins a night. OR do you bump Fayne up knowing he can't handle more than 15 mins a night and potentially neutralize 2 pairings? Personally, I would rather go in having 2 good pairings who can give the Oilers typically close to 20 solid mins a night and spot in the 3rd pairing.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 14:30]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683095 is a reply to message #683093 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:27


Ummm OK. It still doesn't change the fact that when he was paired with Sekera he wasn't going Gryba and firing it off the glass every chance he got and they somehow are tied for first in their division with Sekera and Russell playing together for the majority of the season. So as much as I am not trying to beat the Russell drum nor do I think he should be an Oiler next season, he must be able to do something other than kill penalties and block shots. The guy so far has averaged over 21 mins a night so he can't be completely useless in all areas other than shot blocking and PK. It also still doesn't change the fact that if you go with Might's suggestion and have Fayne with Sekera, you are playing a guy in Fayne who for the past 2 seasons has proven he can't be in your top 4 and have your defense be overly good.

So the question is, do you bite the bullet, put Benning with Sekera and have 2 decent NHL pairings - Klefbom/Larsson & Sekera/Benning - who are capable of giving you decent 20+ mins a night. OR do you bump Fayne up knowing he can't handle more than 15 mins a night and potentially neutralize 2 pairings? Personally, I would rather go in having 2 good pairings who can give the Oilers typically close to 20 solid mins a night and spot in the 3rd pairing.



I think you've hit a key point of mightyreasoner's though...Russell will look better if he's paired with someone who can actually move the puck. Sekera's been our most consistent puck mover all season, so he's a better fit with Russell than Larsson - even though one of them has to play his off-side.

I think that mightyreasoner was trying to balance righties and lefties...if you have Fayne/Benning, that's two righties and Sekera/Russell is two lefties, so you'll have two different pairings where guys are playing their off-side without needing too.

If you're concerned about Russell's puck-moving and Fayne's mobility, putting them together doesn't seem like a recipe for success. A defence pairing is harder to shelter than a fourth line, so that's living a little dangerously.

Fayne did well with Sekera last year, and if you're worried about his minutes, then you can always double shift Benning or Larsson occasionally.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683098 is a reply to message #683095 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:27


Ummm OK. It still doesn't change the fact that when he was paired with Sekera he wasn't going Gryba and firing it off the glass every chance he got and they somehow are tied for first in their division with Sekera and Russell playing together for the majority of the season. So as much as I am not trying to beat the Russell drum nor do I think he should be an Oiler next season, he must be able to do something other than kill penalties and block shots. The guy so far has averaged over 21 mins a night so he can't be completely useless in all areas other than shot blocking and PK. It also still doesn't change the fact that if you go with Might's suggestion and have Fayne with Sekera, you are playing a guy in Fayne who for the past 2 seasons has proven he can't be in your top 4 and have your defense be overly good.

So the question is, do you bite the bullet, put Benning with Sekera and have 2 decent NHL pairings - Klefbom/Larsson & Sekera/Benning - who are capable of giving you decent 20+ mins a night. OR do you bump Fayne up knowing he can't handle more than 15 mins a night and potentially neutralize 2 pairings? Personally, I would rather go in having 2 good pairings who can give the Oilers typically close to 20 solid mins a night and spot in the 3rd pairing.



I think you've hit a key point of mightyreasoner's though...Russell will look better if he's paired with someone who can actually move the puck. Sekera's been our most consistent puck mover all season, so he's a better fit with Russell than Larsson - even though one of them has to play his off-side.

I think that mightyreasoner was trying to balance righties and lefties...if you have Fayne/Benning, that's two righties and Sekera/Russell is two lefties, so you'll have two different pairings where guys are playing their off-side without needing too.

If you're concerned about Russell's puck-moving and Fayne's mobility, putting them together doesn't seem like a recipe for success. A defence pairing is harder to shelter than a fourth line, so that's living a little dangerously.

Fayne did well with Sekera last year, and if you're worried about his minutes, then you can always double shift Benning or Larsson occasionally.


I have heard the "Fayne and Sekera played well together last year" a lot. Yes, after Fayne was waived, spent time in the minors and came back due to injure replaces, Fayne played better. But in saying that Fayne and Sekera looked good as a pairing on a defense that featured:
- Nurse - rookie (69)
- Gryba - 6th/7th dman at best. (53)
- Davidson up and comer (51)
- Nikitin played games - non NHLer (11)
- Pardy played games - non NHLer (9)
- Clendening played games - borderline NHLer (20)
- Schultz - 3rd pairing, situational dman (45)
- Reinhart - AHLer (29)
- Osterle - AHLer (17)

So saying they looked good when those are the guys that played, some a lot doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683101 is a reply to message #683098 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 15:14


I have heard the "Fayne and Sekera played well together last year" a lot. Yes, after Fayne was waived, spent time in the minors and came back due to injure replaces, Fayne played better. But in saying that Fayne and Sekera looked good as a pairing on a defense that featured:
- Nurse - rookie (69)
- Gryba - 6th/7th dman at best. (53)
- Davidson up and comer (51)
- Nikitin played games - non NHLer (11)
- Pardy played games - non NHLer (9)
- Clendening played games - borderline NHLer (20)
- Schultz - 3rd pairing, situational dman (45)
- Reinhart - AHLer (29)
- Osterle - AHLer (17)

So saying they looked good when those are the guys that played, some a lot doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me.


In the 2015 playoffs, Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook were a pretty good pairing on a defence that featured an over-the-hill Kimmo Timonen, Kyle Comiskey, David Rundblad, and Trevor Van Riemsdyk. So given who they played with? Do you have confidence in my statement about how well Keith and Seabrook played? (Please note, I have NOT compared Sekera/Fayne to Keith/Seabrook - this was used only as an example).

If the only thing people were saying was that Fayne/Sekera sure looked good compared to Adam Clendening and Nikita Nikitin, I think you might have a point. But the numbers support the argument that Fayne and Sekera were generally an effective pairing. Their advanced stats were generally pretty strong together (which is why Jonathan Willis talks about this pairing all the time).

Sekera is a good puck mover. Fayne is strong positionally and knows to defer to Sekera whenever possible. One shoots right, the other shoots left. It's generally been a pretty good fit, regardless of what the other pairings on any given night might be.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683108 is a reply to message #683101 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 15:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 15:14


I have heard the "Fayne and Sekera played well together last year" a lot. Yes, after Fayne was waived, spent time in the minors and came back due to injure replaces, Fayne played better. But in saying that Fayne and Sekera looked good as a pairing on a defense that featured:
- Nurse - rookie (69)
- Gryba - 6th/7th dman at best. (53)
- Davidson up and comer (51)
- Nikitin played games - non NHLer (11)
- Pardy played games - non NHLer (9)
- Clendening played games - borderline NHLer (20)
- Schultz - 3rd pairing, situational dman (45)
- Reinhart - AHLer (29)
- Osterle - AHLer (17)

So saying they looked good when those are the guys that played, some a lot doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me.


In the 2015 playoffs, Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook were a pretty good pairing on a defence that featured an over-the-hill Kimmo Timonen, Kyle Comiskey, David Rundblad, and Trevor Van Riemsdyk. So given who they played with? Do you have confidence in my statement about how well Keith and Seabrook played? (Please note, I have NOT compared Sekera/Fayne to Keith/Seabrook - this was used only as an example).

If the only thing people were saying was that Fayne/Sekera sure looked good compared to Adam Clendening and Nikita Nikitin, I think you might have a point. But the numbers support the argument that Fayne and Sekera were generally an effective pairing. Their advanced stats were generally pretty strong together (which is why Jonathan Willis talks about this pairing all the time).

Sekera is a good puck mover. Fayne is strong positionally and knows to defer to Sekera whenever possible. One shoots right, the other shoots left. It's generally been a pretty good fit, regardless of what the other pairings on any given night might be.

You can not be serious in using that comparison.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CHI/2016.html
There is a link to the 2015 Hawks stats where if you scroll to about the middle you can see the playoff stats.

Keith played 31.28 - more than half the game literally.
Seabrook - 27.09
Hjalmarsson (who you left off and easily as good as Sekera) played 24.11
Van Riemsdyke - who's a lot better skater than Fayne, played 23.53. I would take him over Fayne any day.
Rozsival - (who you also left off) played 16.13.

Anyway, this debate is going off the rails in my opinion. When you factor in how bad the Oilers defense was last year and the coach felt they were better off to waive Fayne and he passed through waivers. Then you factor in that any team could have traded for Fayne and given up next to nothing in the offseason and no one touched him. Then you factor in he needed to have a good camp and was lousy. Then you factor in he was waived again and passed through again (twice in about 1 year). All of that strengthens my opinion that if you are playing Fayne more than 15 mins a night you are asking for trouble and if you pair him with Sekera, you are decreasing the effectiveness of one of your best dmen by a lot. If Nurse doesn't go down, Fayne is in the pressbox. As soon as Davidson comes back, Fayne is in the pressbox. So I don't see how it makes sense to play Fayne with one of your best dmen when as soon as they can, Fayne is out of the line up for Davidson.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 16:33]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683112 is a reply to message #683108 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 16:29

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016


In the 2015 playoffs, Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook were a pretty good pairing on a defence that featured an over-the-hill Kimmo Timonen, Kyle Comiskey, David Rundblad, and Trevor Van Riemsdyk. So given who they played with? Do you have confidence in my statement about how well Keith and Seabrook played? (Please note, I have NOT compared Sekera/Fayne to Keith/Seabrook - this was used only as an example).

If the only thing people were saying was that Fayne/Sekera sure looked good compared to Adam Clendening and Nikita Nikitin, I think you might have a point. But the numbers support the argument that Fayne and Sekera were generally an effective pairing. Their advanced stats were generally pretty strong together (which is why Jonathan Willis talks about this pairing all the time).

Sekera is a good puck mover. Fayne is strong positionally and knows to defer to Sekera whenever possible. One shoots right, the other shoots left. It's generally been a pretty good fit, regardless of what the other pairings on any given night might be.

You can not be serious in using that comparison.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CHI/2016.html
There is a link to the 2015 Hawks stats where if you scroll to about the middle you can see the playoff stats.

Keith played 31.28 - more than half the game literally.
Seabrook - 27.09
Hjalmarsson (who you left off and easily as good as Sekera) played 24.11
Van Riemsdyke - who's a lot better skater than Fayne, played 23.53. I would take him over Fayne any day.
Rozsival - (who you also left off) played 16.13.

Anyway, this debate is going off the rails in my opinion. When you factor in how bad the Oilers defense was last year and the coach felt they were better off to waive Fayne and he passed through waivers. Then you factor in that any team could have traded for Fayne and given up next to nothing in the offseason and no one touched him. Then you factor in he needed to have a good camp and was lousy. Then you factor in he was waived again and passed through again (twice in about 1 year). All of that strengthens my opinion that if you are playing Fayne more than 15 mins a night you are asking for trouble and if you pair him with Sekera, you are decreasing the effectiveness of one of your best dmen by a lot. If Nurse doesn't go down, Fayne is in the pressbox. As soon as Davidson comes back, Fayne is in the pressbox. So I don't see how it makes sense to play Fayne with one of your best dmen when as soon as they can, Fayne is out of the line up for Davidson.



Maybe I should have bolded this line: (Please note, I have NOT compared Sekera/Fayne to Keith/Seabrook - this was used only as an example) We could discuss that team - Roscival was injured in the second round, for instance, but it doesn't really matter because it was an example of why your logic is flawed, not a comparable for Fayne/Sekera.

Maybe I should have just said Pronger played on the same team as Alexei Semenov, so how good was he really? (Please note, I have NOT compared Sekera OR Fayne to Chris Pronger OR Alexei Semenov - this was used only as an example)

As for waivers, Fayne doesn't pass through waivers because he can't play. He passes through waivers because the Oilers are paying him an obscene amount for what he brings and most teams are extremely conscious of how much they're outlaying to a depth defenceman. That's more on Craig MacTavish than Mark Fayne (although his performance at the start of last season didn't help, and he clearly got on the wrong side of McLellan - who doesn't seem like the kind of coach that you ever have a blank slate with again once you slide to the wrong side of the ledger).

Fundamentally, I disagree that Fayne automatically drags down Sekera, based on the empirical data that exists showing the two can be an effective pairing. I also think the fact that Fayne doesn't see a lot of special team play means he won't play too many minutes, and that if there's a concern he's playing too much, they can always double shift another defenceman in his spot.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 16:45]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683116 is a reply to message #683095 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 17:10 Go to previous message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:27


Ummm OK. It still doesn't change the fact that when he was paired with Sekera he wasn't going Gryba and firing it off the glass every chance he got and they somehow are tied for first in their division with Sekera and Russell playing together for the majority of the season. So as much as I am not trying to beat the Russell drum nor do I think he should be an Oiler next season, he must be able to do something other than kill penalties and block shots. The guy so far has averaged over 21 mins a night so he can't be completely useless in all areas other than shot blocking and PK. It also still doesn't change the fact that if you go with Might's suggestion and have Fayne with Sekera, you are playing a guy in Fayne who for the past 2 seasons has proven he can't be in your top 4 and have your defense be overly good.

So the question is, do you bite the bullet, put Benning with Sekera and have 2 decent NHL pairings - Klefbom/Larsson & Sekera/Benning - who are capable of giving you decent 20+ mins a night. OR do you bump Fayne up knowing he can't handle more than 15 mins a night and potentially neutralize 2 pairings? Personally, I would rather go in having 2 good pairings who can give the Oilers typically close to 20 solid mins a night and spot in the 3rd pairing.



I think you've hit a key point of mightyreasoner's though...Russell will look better if he's paired with someone who can actually move the puck. Sekera's been our most consistent puck mover all season, so he's a better fit with Russell than Larsson - even though one of them has to play his off-side.

I think that mightyreasoner was trying to balance righties and lefties...if you have Fayne/Benning, that's two righties and Sekera/Russell is two lefties, so you'll have two different pairings where guys are playing their off-side without needing too.



Yeah, pretty much nailed it. For me,i t's less about Fayne or Benning in isolation, so much as how do we get the most out of each player and their strengths and weaknesses. What pairings help get the puck out of our end, keep teams from entering our zone, and defend well once they do enter?

Also, something to remember: Benning only has 18 NHL games experience too, so while he is rocking it, he isn't an ideal candidate for a Top-4 role either. So you kind of look for who can help each other out the most. That's how I arrived at how I would do it.

It will be nice to have Davidson back.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683105 is a reply to message #683089 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:21



Plus since when is Russell a terrible puck mover? He might not be Karlsson but he skates pretty well and as a pairing, when he played the off side with Sekera the puck seemed to move north not too bad and it wasn't all Sekera doing it.


There is zero evidence that Russell is a good puck mover, this year or years past. I agree with all that he is a good one year stop gap but he tends to just blindly send the puck up ice.
Both stats and eye test show he has very few controlled tape to tape zone exits.
I actually like a lot of what he has brought. Especially surprised by his physical play but puck moving is not what he has helped with.
I would say he rarely puts the puck to the other team, cutting down on the fire drills, but he isn't the one to count on to start a good breakout.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683111 is a reply to message #683105 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 15:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 14:21



Plus since when is Russell a terrible puck mover? He might not be Karlsson but he skates pretty well and as a pairing, when he played the off side with Sekera the puck seemed to move north not too bad and it wasn't all Sekera doing it.


There is zero evidence that Russell is a good puck mover, this year or years past. I agree with all that he is a good one year stop gap but he tends to just blindly send the puck up ice.
Both stats and eye test show he has very few controlled tape to tape zone exits.
I actually like a lot of what he has brought. Especially surprised by his physical play but puck moving is not what he has helped with.
I would say he rarely puts the puck to the other team, cutting down on the fire drills, but he isn't the one to count on to start a good breakout.


I am not a fan but I am not a hater either. Russell is what he is, a stop gap to me that has filled a vet void on the team and allowed younger guys to be slotted in the 3rd pair and I believe it paid off with Benning and Nurse. I also believe you are probably better off if he is in your 3rd pairing. If Davidson didn't get hurt, Russell probably isn't playing top 4. Maybe you disagree but I would play Russell over Fayne any day. Other than give guys a rest, I don't see what Fayne brings to your team.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683073 is a reply to message #683069 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:19

Why the hell is Puljujarvi still here!?

Is it team policy to burn through every rookie's entry level contact as soon as possible?


Seems certain now that the Oilers are committed to getting this kid going in the NHL ASAP. I hope they are working with him a lot while he's missing games.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683070 is a reply to message #683066 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:04

If the fortunes of the team are based on swapping out a tweener NHLer in Slep and Pouliot who looks like a skating corpse out there, then the Oilers are in real trouble.

If Pouliot was playing remotely well, then yes taking him out is a mistake. He's not. He was awful early on, got sat for 3 games. Came back and has done almost nothing again. Pouliot isn't even bringing any kind of energy. In Hendricks. He's probably closing in on the end of his career and probably not an every day guy anymore. But for tonight's game, you at least know he's going to come out and give you what he's got, he's going to dive in front of a puck with his face if necessary and being that he sat for a few games, he's going to bring energy to the room because the players list that as one of his attributes he brings and he's going to come out with some energy on the ice.

What's Pouliot going to do most likely? Come out over the boards, skate up and down the wings, do a couple of twirls, maybe register a shot then sit back on the bench and take a drink. This season he is showing that you aren't going to get much out of him even in a 3rd line role. So if you bump him down to the 4th line, what's he going to do there? I have always felt the role of the 4th line is to be physical, bring energy and once in awhile chip in a goal. Pouliot last game in over 15 mins on a line with 2 other offensive players did nothing. This from a guy who's position and roster spot is in question. How motivated is he going to be on a 4th line. Like I said, at least you know Hendricks is going to come out and give you what he's got


I think that's an archaic view of the fourth line (although rather consistent with the Oilers' belief most of the time). Having an energy line that you hope just doesn't get scored on is a waste of 5-12 minutes a game. You want a fourth line that can at least out-play and out-score the other team's fourth line. Having players who can score goals makes a difference.

Pouliot has four goals, despite not having a great season. Hendricks had five ALL of last year. Who's got the better chance of lighting up the other team's fourth line?

As I said, effort without skill is meaningless. If many of us had a chance to play for a game with the Oilers, we'd try as hard as we possibly could...and be way over our head. It doesn't matter without results, and Hendricks wasn't getting a lot of results last year, and he's a year older and slowed by an injury...I don't put him back in the lineup unless injuries force me too, but if I AM putting him in the lineup, I'm not taking out a guy who's consistently scored 2-3 times more points the last few years.


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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683077 is a reply to message #683070 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 11:04

If the fortunes of the team are based on swapping out a tweener NHLer in Slep and Pouliot who looks like a skating corpse out there, then the Oilers are in real trouble.

If Pouliot was playing remotely well, then yes taking him out is a mistake. He's not. He was awful early on, got sat for 3 games. Came back and has done almost nothing again. Pouliot isn't even bringing any kind of energy. In Hendricks. He's probably closing in on the end of his career and probably not an every day guy anymore. But for tonight's game, you at least know he's going to come out and give you what he's got, he's going to dive in front of a puck with his face if necessary and being that he sat for a few games, he's going to bring energy to the room because the players list that as one of his attributes he brings and he's going to come out with some energy on the ice.

What's Pouliot going to do most likely? Come out over the boards, skate up and down the wings, do a couple of twirls, maybe register a shot then sit back on the bench and take a drink. This season he is showing that you aren't going to get much out of him even in a 3rd line role. So if you bump him down to the 4th line, what's he going to do there? I have always felt the role of the 4th line is to be physical, bring energy and once in awhile chip in a goal. Pouliot last game in over 15 mins on a line with 2 other offensive players did nothing. This from a guy who's position and roster spot is in question. How motivated is he going to be on a 4th line. Like I said, at least you know Hendricks is going to come out and give you what he's got


I think that's an archaic view of the fourth line (although rather consistent with the Oilers' belief most of the time). Having an energy line that you hope just doesn't get scored on is a waste of 5-12 minutes a game. You want a fourth line that can at least out-play and out-score the other team's fourth line. Having players who can score goals makes a difference.

Pouliot has four goals, despite not having a great season. Hendricks had five ALL of last year. Who's got the better chance of lighting up the other team's fourth line?

As I said, effort without skill is meaningless. If many of us had a chance to play for a game with the Oilers, we'd try as hard as we possibly could...and be way over our head. It doesn't matter without results, and Hendricks wasn't getting a lot of results last year, and he's a year older and slowed by an injury...I don't put him back in the lineup unless injuries force me too, but if I AM putting him in the lineup, I'm not taking out a guy who's consistently scored 2-3 times more points the last few years.


I guess that is where we differ then. I understand that players, especially offensive guys go through slumps and have bad years. So if that is the case as is with Pouliot this season, then go out there and do something else. Whatever he is doing, isn't working. So change it up, do something else to bring value to your team. Skating around in circles like he is doing doesn't bring value to your team.
Here are his game logs.
https://www.nhl.com/player/benoit-pouliot-8471678?stats=game logs-r-nhl&season=20162017

Pouliot in 24 games this season, he has 4 goals, 5 pts and 13 hits. On Oct 26th he scored 2 goals on 2 shots. After Oct 26th, in 17 games, he has 1 goal, 24 shots and is a -3. If you look at the game logs in those 17 games since the 26th, he plays well over 15 mins a night on average . So what in the last 17 games is he bringing of value to the team? I agree that Hendricks shouldn't be an every day forward. But going into tonight's game against a lower team where the Oilers at times have a tendency to play down to competition. I will take the 10 mins of energy, physical play and rah rah on the bench that we all know Hendricks will bring vs Pouliot stare blankly onto the ice when on the bench then watch him doing donuts during his shift.

[Updated on: Tue, 06 December 2016 11:51]

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683075 is a reply to message #683057 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 09:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


Rumours floating around they are trying to trade Hendricks, so guessing showcase.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683104 is a reply to message #683075 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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nullterm wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:30

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 09:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


Rumours floating around they are trying to trade Hendricks, so guessing showcase.


I hate showcasing.
I was watching the Pens/Sens game yesterday and they talked about showcasing Fleury. Worked out real bad.
For a vet the league knows what they are it isn't like playing a game or two will up the value. The only exception I caneed see is a guy coming back from injury to prove he is healthy.

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683109 is a reply to message #683104 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 15:47

nullterm wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 12:30

Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 09:21

Anders Nilsson in net for the Sabres!?!!?

Also, Hendricks and Puljujarvi in, Slepyshev and Pouliot out. In the questionable coaching moves department, I can't think of any reasons to play Hendricks over Pouliot. If you want to bring him in to the lineup, I'd have taken Ryan Rishaug's favourite player (Tyler Pitlick) out instead.

I'll never understand why the Oilers are willing to ice less than their best lineup so often.


Rumours floating around they are trying to trade Hendricks, so guessing showcase.


I hate showcasing.
I was watching the Pens/Sens game yesterday and they talked about showcasing Fleury. Worked out real bad.
For a vet the league knows what they are it isn't like playing a game or two will up the value. The only exception I can see is a guy coming back from injury to prove he is healthy.


Agreed completely. Every point is important, so you have to dress the lineup that gives you the best chance of success. I don't change my lineup so that some other GM can have one more look at a guy who may or may not have a good game that night.

There's massive amount of video available on players these days. If someone really wants to see a certain player in action, maybe I send them a video package (showing only his good moments).

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 Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Buffalo (Game #28) [message #683110 is a reply to message #683109 ]
Tue, 06 December 2016 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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Adam wrote on Tue, 06 December 2016 15:31


Agreed completely. Every point is important, so you have to dress the lineup that gives you the best chance of success. I don't change my lineup so that some other GM can have one more look at a guy who may or may not have a good game that night.

There's massive amount of video available on players these days. If someone really wants to see a certain player in action, maybe I send them a video package (showing only his good moments).


I will also agree with this. It seems like the analytics community seems to be one of the main drivers of this idea.

I wonder if it comes from their general disdain for hockey front offices in general, and therefore they think that you can basically trick any other GM if you can somehow moderately boost a guys numbers for a couple of weeks.

If the Oilers are doing anything other than trying their hardest to win games right now, then they're doing it wrong.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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