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 Kris Russell [message #676989]
Mon, 19 September 2016 01:11 Go to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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From Dustin Nielson on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/nielsonTSN1260

Quote:

Oilers reached out to Kris Russell a couple of days ago. Expect the two sides to start talking numbers/term etc as early as tomorrow.


Speculation seems to be that this would be similar to Versteeg in that it is signing an NHL vet to take the place of a young prospect (thus allowing them to develop in the AHL). The prospect in this place being Darnell Nurse.

Would give the Oilers a depth chart of:

Klefbom / Larsson
Sekera / Fayne
Russell / Davidson
Oesterle

AHL: Nurse, Reinhart, Benning, Musil, Fraser

One thing Russell might help with is providing a little offense to a pretty barren group. I also like the idea of Nurse getting some more AHL before he becomes a full-time NHLer. He'll get time this year with injuries, but I like the idea of adding a little depth.

The big area of concern is still that 2RD. I wish there was a better alternative (i.e. Tyson Barrie) to Mark Fayne. Beyond that major piece, it's actually starting to look a little respectable.

Another low-risk signing if it happens, and perhaps a late summer bargain. He's got some warts, and I don't think the analytics community will like it, but in the right situation, I think he could find success (much like Justin Schultz needed the right situation).



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #676990 is a reply to message #676989 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I am not sure what to think about this. On one hand, I don't mind the idea of putting young guys in the minors. The Oilers for years have rushed young players not because they are stupid but because they didn't have anyone better. The Oilers are loaded depth wise with young, lefties and Russell is left but in reality, who's better than Nurse? The Oilers have Klefbom, Sekera, Davidson as their best lefties. Given their depth chart, one of them has to be on the right side as they only have Larsson and Fayne on the right. So that means Nurse is your next best lefty.

I have said it that I don't want to see a young guy in the pressbox as your #7, so if Russel helps you do that, then I am OK with it. I would only sign him is the deal is short, cheap and there is no NMC in his deal. Perhaps signing a Russell opens the door to trade away another lefty for a right shot? Just spit balling here. I know the advanced stats guys hate him.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #676991 is a reply to message #676990 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 08:40

I am not sure what to think about this. On one hand, I don't mind the idea of putting young guys in the minors. The Oilers for years have rushed young players not because they are stupid but because they didn't have anyone better.




They never had any better options because they rarely took advantage of cheap in-fill free agents. They could have easily iced more competitive teams over the years, with any number of veterans. Instead, they ruined a multitude of promising young hockey players.

I was hating Chia for not changing this mistake, looks like he may have seen the error in Lowe/Tambo/MacT's ways. So happy to hear this.



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2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Kris Russell [message #676992 is a reply to message #676991 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I would agree. Injuries are going to happen so I would rather have a vet like Russel being available to play on your team vs your option being calling up Oesterle. That being said, I wouldn't sign him for a lot.

[Updated on: Mon, 19 September 2016 09:30]


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 Re: Kris Russell [message #676993 is a reply to message #676989 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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As long as he signs at or below 2M, can't hurt. Would love to see us let our young D develop more, and Russell is a good 3rd pairing guy.

For whatever reason there is this David Clarkson aura that seems to follow Russell around, like he's worth way more than he actually provides. The media tried to hype him up as this prime asset that all teams were after at the last deadline. I've seen claims of him commanding 3M+ AAV. I really hope we don't give him some ridiculous contract.

Dallas did give up a decent amount to get him, and they gave him lots of minutes in the playoffs. But, Corsi-wise he was by far their worst D in the playoffs. He played with Dougie Hamilton most of last year in Calgary, and Hamilton's Corsi % jumped 7% without Russell with the same quality of zone starts. His WOWY's are pretty bad with pretty much everyone. Think he was just playing over his head in a 2nd pairing role.

[Updated on: Mon, 19 September 2016 09:42]


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 Re: Kris Russell [message #676994 is a reply to message #676989 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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I hear the background noise that signing Russel would be a mistake, but I see it a huge positive in that, he's a 3rd pairing D and could push the likes of Nurse back to the AHL to dominate, and hone his defensive game.

Now I'm not fooling myself saying the point production can be filled with Russel with the subtraction of someone like Nurse, but I do think he's got some game left to be a stay at home D with the speed to stay with the defensive target and be a first pass to from the defensive zone to the offensive zone.

So, I'm okay with it..



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #676996 is a reply to message #676989 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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I'm hearing in the range of $4 Mill for 1 yr, but I have nothing to back that up.


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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677001 is a reply to message #676996 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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If that number is true, that's seems pretty steep for a guy who's waited all offseason and is only a couple weeks out from camps opening. I would not sign him if that is the number. If that number was half of that, I could live with it.

What I do like about the idea is he's an actual NHL dman. The Oilers for years have stuck their hopes on young guys and AHLers who they hoped were ready to take that step but in a lot of cases, weren't ready. So then they are screwed.

I personally think Nurse is close but I think he could stand to do some more developing. So if signing a Russel lets Nurse spend half a season playing huge minutes in the AHL, playing in all situations while be bangs off the rough patches to his game, that's great.

I think there is a player in Reinhart. Do I think they played a premium to get him, hell yeah they did. Maybe a little too much, I don't entirely know. What I do know is at the end of last season with all of the injuries and Reinhart played those 12-15 games straight, we started to see that player. So if signing a Russel lets Reinhart like Nurse play in the AHL to continue to develop, great.

But in general, provided they don't pay a ton, I like the idea just in that they are trying to bring in vets to help insulate the kids.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677000 is a reply to message #676989 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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I'm wondering if you pair him with a guy like Davidson, at least 5-on-5, someone with really strong Corsi and a (brief) history of helping elevate the play of his partners, if that might help.

And then you play Davidson on the PK, and Russell on the PP.

I don't like the idea of him on the second pairing, but he could provide a little bit of value on the third pairing, pushing down depth, and as a PP specialist.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677005 is a reply to message #677000 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 09:34

I'm wondering if you pair him with a guy like Davidson, at least 5-on-5, someone with really strong Corsi and a (brief) history of helping elevate the play of his partners, if that might help.

And then you play Davidson on the PK, and Russell on the PP.

I don't like the idea of him on the second pairing, but he could provide a little bit of value on the third pairing, pushing down depth, and as a PP specialist.


and I think the other piece is that although the depth on the right side is way, way worse there has to be at least some concern with Klefbom's health. If you assume that he is going to miss a portion of games this year (and the Oilers absolutely should be working under that assumption), signing Russell gives you a little bit of protection on the left side and protects you from having to ice 2, possibly 3 guys that should really be in the AHL right now. Ideally none of Nurse, Reinhart, Oesterle should be starting the season in Edmonton.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677006 is a reply to message #677005 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Stauffer just tweeted that he would be surprised if the Oilers signed Russel given their left depth. Usually if there is anything to a rumor, Stauffer will make a positive comment about the player. He might talk about past season, addressing a need or mentioned a past relationship. When Benning was out there and the Oilers were rumored to be in on him, Stauffer did that all the time.

Most of Stauffer information I believe comes from the team so it looks like it's dead. I supposed anything is possible.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677008 is a reply to message #677005 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Goose wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 11:23

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 09:34

I'm wondering if you pair him with a guy like Davidson, at least 5-on-5, someone with really strong Corsi and a (brief) history of helping elevate the play of his partners, if that might help.

And then you play Davidson on the PK, and Russell on the PP.

I don't like the idea of him on the second pairing, but he could provide a little bit of value on the third pairing, pushing down depth, and as a PP specialist.


and I think the other piece is that although the depth on the right side is way, way worse there has to be at least some concern with Klefbom's health. If you assume that he is going to miss a portion of games this year (and the Oilers absolutely should be working under that assumption), signing Russell gives you a little bit of protection on the left side and protects you from having to ice 2, possibly 3 guys that should really be in the AHL right now. Ideally none of Nurse, Reinhart, Oesterle should be starting the season in Edmonton.


I don't mind the idea of Oesterle starting the year, though I'd like to see it as a seventh defenseman.

He doesn't have the same high ceiling as Nurse, or perhaps even Reinhart, and he is older. If I'm not mistaken, I believe has to clear waivers this year. He's a cheap guy who can sit in pressbox, play on the third pairing if needed, and you don't really have to worry about ruining his development (being older he is further along on his growth curve than Reinhart or Nurse). Given how he looked at the end of last year, I'd rather he start on the Oilers than say, Musil. But I have him higher on the depth chart than many people I suppose (ahead of both Reinhart and possibly Nurse at this point).

But to the point you're making, absolutely agree. And looking through the remaining NHL UFAs, I honestly don't see much for alternatives.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677011 is a reply to message #677008 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 10:32


I don't mind the idea of Oesterle starting the year, though I'd like to see it as a seventh defenseman.

He doesn't have the same high ceiling as Nurse, or perhaps even Reinhart, and he is older. If I'm not mistaken, I believe has to clear waivers this year. He's a cheap guy who can sit in pressbox, play on the third pairing if needed, and you don't really have to worry about ruining his development (being older he is further along on his growth curve than Reinhart or Nurse). Given how he looked at the end of last year, I'd rather he start on the Oilers than say, Musil. But I have him higher on the depth chart than many people I suppose (ahead of both Reinhart and possibly Nurse at this point).

But to the point you're making, absolutely agree. And looking through the remaining NHL UFAs, I honestly don't see much for alternatives.


Ya, that's fair - I wouldn't mind Oesterle starting the season on the Oilers. Like you said though, ideally he's the 7th guy, and just seeing spot duty.

I still would like to see them get another RHD also. Lowetide speculated in his post this morning that if they sign Russell it opens up the possibility of trading a young LHD for a RHD, but we've heard that before (although I guess that's technically what they did when they traded Hall/signed Lucic).


http://lowetide.ca/2016/09/19/first-we-take-helsinki/



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677014 is a reply to message #676989 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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I will admit I dont know a LOT about Russell but I have a Flames fan for a friend that claims he is better than his numbers. Grit, heart, yadda, yadda.
I looked at his hero chart and such and the advanced stats really dont speak too highly of him. One thing I didnt look up is his penalty killing time/abilities. If he could adequately kill some PK time it would take a couple minutes off of Larsson which isnt a bad thing if he is going one on one with the other teams top line night in and night out.
I also dont know the exaqct details of the cap with bonus cushions, LTIR relied for Ference, etc but if he is willing to do a one year deal I am not too concerned about the dollar value.
In the end if he fits under the cap on a one year deal it isnt a bad thing to have another NHL player on a team that has been overstocked with players who had no business in this league for years.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677019 is a reply to message #677014 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilPeg  is currently offline OilPeg
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 13:06

I will admit I dont know a LOT about Russell but I have a Flames fan for a friend that claims he is better than his numbers. Grit, heart, yadda, yadda.
I looked at his hero chart and such and the advanced stats really dont speak too highly of him. One thing I didnt look up is his penalty killing time/abilities. If he could adequately kill some PK time it would take a couple minutes off of Larsson which isnt a bad thing if he is going one on one with the other teams top line night in and night out.
I also dont know the exaqct details of the cap with bonus cushions, LTIR relied for Ference, etc but if he is willing to do a one year deal I am not too concerned about the dollar value.
In the end if he fits under the cap on a one year deal it isnt a bad thing to have another NHL player on a team that has been overstocked with players who had no business in this league for years.


AND, he's another asset that can be dealt at the deadline to a contending team should we be out of it. Have to be careful on the AVV though, if it's too high, even on a one-year deal, teams may have trouble fitting him under the cap. But if another 2nd or 3rd can be had for him, then it's worth giving him a look.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677020 is a reply to message #677019 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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OilPeg wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 13:07

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 13:06

I will admit I dont know a LOT about Russell but I have a Flames fan for a friend that claims he is better than his numbers. Grit, heart, yadda, yadda.
I looked at his hero chart and such and the advanced stats really dont speak too highly of him. One thing I didnt look up is his penalty killing time/abilities. If he could adequately kill some PK time it would take a couple minutes off of Larsson which isnt a bad thing if he is going one on one with the other teams top line night in and night out.
I also dont know the exaqct details of the cap with bonus cushions, LTIR relied for Ference, etc but if he is willing to do a one year deal I am not too concerned about the dollar value.
In the end if he fits under the cap on a one year deal it isnt a bad thing to have another NHL player on a team that has been overstocked with players who had no business in this league for years.


AND, he's another asset that can be dealt at the deadline to a contending team should we be out of it. Have to be careful on the AVV though, if it's too high, even on a one-year deal, teams may have trouble fitting him under the cap. But if another 2nd or 3rd can be had for him, then it's worth giving him a look.

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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677021 is a reply to message #676989 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adrean  is currently offline Adrean
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According to Fat Bob, it ssounds like Russell's camp is looking for $4-5M on a 1 year and trumpeting that they are still talking to 8 teams. It sounds like posturing and positioning to me. If it was my call, I would tell his camp that they are now down to 7 teams to talk to.
Fight

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ kris-russell-likely-looking-for-1-year-deal-but-still-talkin g-to-many-teams-tsns-mckenzie-reports



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677024 is a reply to message #677021 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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If Russell thinks he's getting 4.5 mill 2 weeks before camp, he's dreaming. I have to assume that there were probably a few deals for him earlier in free agency with term but maybe not the dollars. They said no thinking someone else would come along, it never happened. Bad, bad advice by his agent.


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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677025 is a reply to message #677024 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PoolParty  is currently offline PoolParty
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We have about $7M in cap space, if he wants $4M for 1 year give it to him. Make our D better for a full season.


This forum has turned into a pessimistic cesspool of bitching and whining about the same topics consistently.

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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677029 is a reply to message #677025 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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PoolParty wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 14:17

We have about $7M in cap space, if he wants $4M for 1 year give it to him. Make our D better for a full season.


Do we actually have 7 mill in cap space? I thought there was something to do with the rookie bonuses and such that we had to save money for. If so we have Drai, McD, JP and Nurse with bonuses that may be earned, according to this;
http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/edmonton-oilers/cap/

I assume someone with more knowledge than me will explain but this is what I was referring to before. If Russell came in at 2.5 or 3 then so be it but I am hesitant to look past his poor numbers if it handcuffs us completely cap wise



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677030 is a reply to message #677029 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 14:57

PoolParty wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 14:17

We have about $7M in cap space, if he wants $4M for 1 year give it to him. Make our D better for a full season.


Do we actually have 7 mill in cap space? I thought there was something to do with the rookie bonuses and such that we had to save money for. If so we have Drai, McD, JP and Nurse with bonuses that may be earned, according to this;
http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/edmonton-oilers/cap/

I assume someone with more knowledge than me will explain but this is what I was referring to before. If Russell came in at 2.5 or 3 then so be it but I am hesitant to look past his poor numbers if it handcuffs us completely cap wise



Bonuses don't count on your cap unless the player actually earns them. You're allowed to exceed the cap with bonuses by 7.5% of the cap I believe. But, it's risky because at the end of the year if your base salary + bonuses earned exceeds the cap, the excess is a penalty off your cap the next season. Chicago has a 3M+ penalty this season because of Panarin's bonuses and it forced them to trade some guys.

So, McDavid is an automatic 2.85M of earned bonuses. Drai, probably 600k at last with Schedule A bonuses, if he breaks out he could very well challenge for an extra 1.6M of schedule B bonuses. Poolparty is a total wildcard, but he can get up to 2.5M of bonuses too.

This is not the year to be risking a cap penalty. Would like Chia to keep at least 5-6M of cap space free for bonuses.

There is also Ference on LTIR though, so that will free up 3.25M.


So, if I'm doing this right, and we can actually get Ference's cap hit off the books. We have 8.313M + 3.25M = 11.563M of space? Take off 6M for a cushion for bonuses, 5.563M left for Versteeg and D depth.

[Updated on: Mon, 19 September 2016 15:13]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677032 is a reply to message #677030 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 15:08

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 14:57

PoolParty wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 14:17

We have about $7M in cap space, if he wants $4M for 1 year give it to him. Make our D better for a full season.


Do we actually have 7 mill in cap space? I thought there was something to do with the rookie bonuses and such that we had to save money for. If so we have Drai, McD, JP and Nurse with bonuses that may be earned, according to this;
http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/edmonton-oilers/cap/

I assume someone with more knowledge than me will explain but this is what I was referring to before. If Russell came in at 2.5 or 3 then so be it but I am hesitant to look past his poor numbers if it handcuffs us completely cap wise



Bonuses don't count on your cap unless the player actually earns them. You're allowed to exceed the cap with bonuses by 7.5% of the cap I believe. But, it's risky because at the end of the year if your base salary + bonuses earned exceeds the cap, the excess is a penalty off your cap the next season. Chicago has a 3M+ penalty this season because of Panarin's bonuses and it forced them to trade some guys.

So, McDavid is an automatic 2.85M of earned bonuses. Drai, probably 600k at last with Schedule A bonuses, if he breaks out he could very well challenge for an extra 1.6M of schedule B bonuses. Poolparty is a total wildcard, but he can get up to 2.5M of bonuses too.

This is not the year to be risking a cap penalty. Would like Chia to keep at least 5-6M of cap space free for bonuses.

There is also Ference on LTIR though, so that will free up 3.25M.


So, if I'm doing this right, and we can actually get Ference's cap hit off the books. We have 8.313M + 3.25M = 11.563M of space? Take off 6M for a cushion for bonuses, 5.563M left for Versteeg and D depth.


Thanks KR.
How does the LTIR work? Is it as soon as he is declared out for the season you get the full amount? Or do you get a percentage back, so to speak, as the season passes



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677035 is a reply to message #677032 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 15:14

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 15:08

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 14:57

PoolParty wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 14:17

We have about $7M in cap space, if he wants $4M for 1 year give it to him. Make our D better for a full season.


Do we actually have 7 mill in cap space? I thought there was something to do with the rookie bonuses and such that we had to save money for. If so we have Drai, McD, JP and Nurse with bonuses that may be earned, according to this;
http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/edmonton-oilers/cap/

I assume someone with more knowledge than me will explain but this is what I was referring to before. If Russell came in at 2.5 or 3 then so be it but I am hesitant to look past his poor numbers if it handcuffs us completely cap wise



Bonuses don't count on your cap unless the player actually earns them. You're allowed to exceed the cap with bonuses by 7.5% of the cap I believe. But, it's risky because at the end of the year if your base salary + bonuses earned exceeds the cap, the excess is a penalty off your cap the next season. Chicago has a 3M+ penalty this season because of Panarin's bonuses and it forced them to trade some guys.

So, McDavid is an automatic 2.85M of earned bonuses. Drai, probably 600k at last with Schedule A bonuses, if he breaks out he could very well challenge for an extra 1.6M of schedule B bonuses. Poolparty is a total wildcard, but he can get up to 2.5M of bonuses too.

This is not the year to be risking a cap penalty. Would like Chia to keep at least 5-6M of cap space free for bonuses.

There is also Ference on LTIR though, so that will free up 3.25M.


So, if I'm doing this right, and we can actually get Ference's cap hit off the books. We have 8.313M + 3.25M = 11.563M of space? Take off 6M for a cushion for bonuses, 5.563M left for Versteeg and D depth.


Thanks KR.
How does the LTIR work? Is it as soon as he is declared out for the season you get the full amount? Or do you get a percentage back, so to speak, as the season passes



I think it's just basically you can exceed the cap by however much the LTIR players cap hit is. It's not a minus off your cap to put Ference on LTIR, it just means you can exceed the cap by his salary amount if needed. There's some other complication I think with how you can't put a guy on LTIR until the season starts, so you have to worry about exceeding the cap before the LTIR can be activated.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677036 is a reply to message #677032 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 15:14



Thanks KR.
How does the LTIR work? Is it as soon as he is declared out for the season you get the full amount? Or do you get a percentage back, so to speak, as the season passes



Cap space is calculated daily. LTIR doesn't mean you get the cap space back, It means you can spend that cap space on another player for that day. If you don't use it on that day, it doesn't carry over.

So, if you could bring in Russell for the same salary as Ference, it would be a strict replacement of cap hit.

What you can't do is use Ference's cap hit for a ~$10 million player at the trade deadline.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677039 is a reply to message #677036 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 15:24

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 15:14



Thanks KR.
How does the LTIR work? Is it as soon as he is declared out for the season you get the full amount? Or do you get a percentage back, so to speak, as the season passes



Cap space is calculated daily. LTIR doesn't mean you get the cap space back, It means you can spend that cap space on another player for that day. If you don't use it on that day, it doesn't carry over.

So, if you could bring in Russell for the same salary as Ference, it would be a strict replacement of cap hit.

What you can't do is use Ference's cap hit for a ~$10 million player at the trade deadline.


Thanks for the info guys.
That does make more sense now. In fact I remember the daily thing coming in with LA where they were dressing 5 D men because of the daily cap calculation



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677050 is a reply to message #677039 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Bonus money does count against the cap, but only at the end of the season when they know what actual bonus' they made. So if you believe a player will hit some or all of their bonus' then you better keep the cap space or you lose that space the following year.


Kris Russell would be fine for 1 year at $2.5 million. No more. If he does let some one else pay it.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677055 is a reply to message #677050 ]
Mon, 19 September 2016 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jakey wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 19:29

Bonus money does count against the cap, but only at the end of the season when they know what actual bonus' they made. So if you believe a player will hit some or all of their bonus' then you better keep the cap space or you lose that space the following year.


Kris Russell would be fine for 1 year at $2.5 million. No more. If he does let some one else pay it.



Just on this topic. Looked at the teams with bonus overage penalties this year. More teams than I expected have one:

Chicago - $3,070,000
Florida - $1,420,000
Calgary - $630,500
San Jose - $617,000
Detroit - $550,000
Toronto - $512,000
Edmonton - $322,083
Vancouver - $315,000
Tampa Bay - $314,168
St. Louis - $190,000

Poor Chicago. Shoulda benched Panarin that last week :)



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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677065 is a reply to message #677055 ]
Tue, 20 September 2016 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 21:28

Jakey wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 19:29

Bonus money does count against the cap, but only at the end of the season when they know what actual bonus' they made. So if you believe a player will hit some or all of their bonus' then you better keep the cap space or you lose that space the following year.


Kris Russell would be fine for 1 year at $2.5 million. No more. If he does let some one else pay it.



Just on this topic. Looked at the teams with bonus overage penalties this year. More teams than I expected have one:

Chicago - $3,070,000
Florida - $1,420,000
Calgary - $630,500
San Jose - $617,000
Detroit - $550,000
Toronto - $512,000
Edmonton - $322,083
Vancouver - $315,000
Tampa Bay - $314,168
St. Louis - $190,000

Poor Chicago. Shoulda benched Panarin that last week :)


This is a key area in the next round of bargaining in 2019. The big contracts with huge bonus laden deals that Ryan O'Reilly's contract started will be squashed by the NHL bigtime! The NHLPA will dig in hard, but I can't see how they would win this battle.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677067 is a reply to message #677065 ]
Tue, 20 September 2016 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Jakey wrote on Tue, 20 September 2016 08:21

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 21:28

Jakey wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 19:29

Bonus money does count against the cap, but only at the end of the season when they know what actual bonus' they made. So if you believe a player will hit some or all of their bonus' then you better keep the cap space or you lose that space the following year.


Kris Russell would be fine for 1 year at $2.5 million. No more. If he does let some one else pay it.



Just on this topic. Looked at the teams with bonus overage penalties this year. More teams than I expected have one:

Chicago - $3,070,000
Florida - $1,420,000
Calgary - $630,500
San Jose - $617,000
Detroit - $550,000
Toronto - $512,000
Edmonton - $322,083
Vancouver - $315,000
Tampa Bay - $314,168
St. Louis - $190,000

Poor Chicago. Shoulda benched Panarin that last week :)


This is a key area in the next round of bargaining in 2019. The big contracts with huge bonus laden deals that Ryan O'Reilly's contract started will be squashed by the NHL bigtime! The NHLPA will dig in hard, but I can't see how they would win this battle.


The same way any union wins: solidarity.

I think the biggest issue of the next CBA will be middle tier vets losing their jobs to cheap players on their first and second contracts. Kris Russell, for example.



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 Re: Kris Russell [message #677076 is a reply to message #677067 ]
Tue, 20 September 2016 11:25 Go to previous message
Jakey  is currently offline Jakey
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 September 2016 08:42

Jakey wrote on Tue, 20 September 2016 08:21

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 21:28

Jakey wrote on Mon, 19 September 2016 19:29

Bonus money does count against the cap, but only at the end of the season when they know what actual bonus' they made. So if you believe a player will hit some or all of their bonus' then you better keep the cap space or you lose that space the following year.


Kris Russell would be fine for 1 year at $2.5 million. No more. If he does let some one else pay it.



Just on this topic. Looked at the teams with bonus overage penalties this year. More teams than I expected have one:

Chicago - $3,070,000
Florida - $1,420,000
Calgary - $630,500
San Jose - $617,000
Detroit - $550,000
Toronto - $512,000
Edmonton - $322,083
Vancouver - $315,000
Tampa Bay - $314,168
St. Louis - $190,000

Poor Chicago. Shoulda benched Panarin that last week :)


This is a key area in the next round of bargaining in 2019. The big contracts with huge bonus laden deals that Ryan O'Reilly's contract started will be squashed by the NHL bigtime! The NHLPA will dig in hard, but I can't see how they would win this battle.


The same way any union wins: solidarity.

I think the biggest issue of the next CBA will be middle tier vets losing their jobs to cheap players on their first and second contracts. Kris Russell, for example.



Solidarity in the NHLPA is fleeting. They are good for a while, but each player starts to look at what's best for them based on their current & future positions. Yes there are vets who are concerned about losing their jobs to younger guys. This is a function of the Players wanting more dollars. The bigger the dollars are for the stars the less there is to go around to the middling vet players, thus the younger guys get more opportunities to make teams because of entry level deals the first 2-3 seasons.

So the super stars will push hard for more dollars & get it, while the middle to low-end guys get less because of exactly this. Also, the Canadian dollar has a massive role in determining if the cap goes up a lot or not. If it hovers between 0.75 - 0.80 the cap isn't going to move much at all. If it starts to get above the 85 cent area then you will see the cap start to rise a lot again.

The NHLPA will care about the middle to low-end veterans, but ultimately they will cave to more potential $$$ to their superstars...they always do.



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