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 Winds of Change [message #706695]
Sun, 07 January 2018 21:39 Go to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 11568
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

So the Oilers are almost certainly going to make a splash soon. There's a lot of anger, and that usually precedes a blood-letting with this organization. The media guys are suddenly very critical of the GM (while protecting the coach) which often means someone in the upper office has told them something - they're generally afraid to criticize any off-ice personnel unless they've been given the green light (or unless they've just been fired).

My best guess is that Chiarelli isn't going to survive the season. Lowe, Nicholson & Co. are going to dump him soon. I think we saw a hint of this even last month when Gretzky said something about what you need to be successful in today's NHL is speed, depth and goaltending or something to that extent (I"m struggling to find the quote again today.)

Because it's the Oilers, they won't fire anyone else. Lowe & MacT keep their jobs and maybe get promotions. And the new GM is likely to be one of Scott Howson, Keith Gretzky or Wayne Gretzky. Best case scenario is that that person is saddled with an interim tag, and the team does a more proper search in the summer, but I wouldn't count on it.

McLellan will get the rest of the season to work with. Everyone has to be painfully aware that they have to pay Chiarelli millions for years to come, and McLellan has a lucrative deal too...it will be expensive for the Oilers to flush both guys at once.

New guy is going to get the unenviable task of trying to get something for Maroon and Cammalleri. The latter might be difficult, the former shouldn't be - but you never know with the Oilers. The returns MacT got for Hemsky and Petry have shown that they can even fumble on easy rental deals because teams know the Oilers have sucked at negotiating trades basically since 2006.

I hope there's not a lot of player moves made on a kneejerk basis. Trading Nuge or Draisaitl or Klefbom would be another travesty. I would love to see the team act professionally and find the best people for the job, and remove all the hangers-on that make taking a job with the Oilers so unappealing, but I have little faith that they're going to do anything more than promote from within. SIGH.

Incredible to see the end of McDavid's rookie deal with not much more progress than we saw under Hall's.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706700 is a reply to message #706695 ]
Sun, 07 January 2018 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 11568
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

As Matheson and Stauffer tweet out their (team requested) support of the coach, Peter Chiarelli reaches out to Spector this evening to give the ol' vote of confidence to his coach.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-gm-peter-chiarelli -no-intentions-firing-todd-mclellan/

Quote:

“I have no intentions of firing Todd (McLellan). I want to work with the coach, and I think he’s a very good coach,” Chiarelli said over the phone from Nashville. “As far as Todd goes, and (his staff), I am not considering firing them. At this point we’re going to solve it together.”


Quote:

“Everyone is under evaluation, including myself,” Chiarelli said. “We’ve had our challenges from a coaching perspective, and we’ve had our challenges from a player personnel perspective. We went into the season with certain expectations, and we’re not even close to them.

“I see the situation we’re in. I see levels of improvement, but I also see the losses piling up,” he said. “There’s a plan in place, and a plan to bring up through the ranks, at the proper time, younger players.

“But remember my press conference (on Nov. 28) with the ‘death by a thousand cuts?’ That’s still going on right now.”


- the first shot fired here, and it's definitely at the players, who haven't lived up to the expectations the team had of them.

Quote:

Why has Oscar Klefbom’s game descended so far? What happened to sophomores Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning? Why have Pat Maroon and Zack Kassian not been the players they were last season? What on earth happened to Mark Letestu's usually dependable game? Why does Leon Draisaitl’s game come and go like the wind?


- That's Spector helping to lay blame at players' feet, naming names where the GM did not.

Quote:

“I have to have a clear head,” he said. “I have to stick with what we have in place, what we’re trying to do, for more than two months or a (bad season). But, we also owe it to our fans to make sure the team is in a position (to win), whenever that time is. I have to look at the bigger picture, but having said that, that bigger picture includes the coaching staff, the players …

“I have to have a clear head, and I have to have someone in charge — meaning Todd — who has a clear head.”


- In short, I have no idea what we're going to do, and how we're getting out of this mess.

Quote:

“I know special teams have been lacking,” Chiarelli said. “They’ve been working non-stop on them. I have the utmost confidence in Todd and the coaching staff as a group. This is about working through it.”

As a GM, Chiarelli’s M.O. has been patience. He’s not a hothead who fires people, though if we’re having this same conversation 11 months from now, we suspect that will change.

“That’s not to say it’s not a tool in my toolbox, but I am apt to look at the bigger picture here now,” he said. “It doesn’t mean we’re (never) going to make change, but Todd is a very good coach.

“We’re going to look at other things, other than what people are asking for as an obvious change. Although they may be asking for my (head) too.”


- So Chia says he's not firing the coach, but saying he could fire it someday - it's a "tool in his toolbox". And then he acknowledges that people are calling for him and McLellan to be fired - as they should be.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706703 is a reply to message #706700 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 2263
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 January 2018 21:46


- the first shot fired here, and it's definitely at the players, who haven't lived up to the expectations the team had of them.

Quote:

Why has Oscar Klefbom’s game descended so far? What happened to sophomores Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning? Why have Pat Maroon and Zack Kassian not been the players they were last season? What on earth happened to Mark Letestu's usually dependable game? Why does Leon Draisaitl’s game come and go like the wind?


- That's Spector helping to lay blame at players' feet, naming names where the GM did not.



Spector represents the laziest of the lazy MSM.

Caggiula, Benning, Maroon, and Kassian are all scoring at basically the exact same rate they did last year. Benning has had his struggles, but he's a 2nd year defenceman coming off of a concussion. Chia not realizing there was risk there is entirely his own fault. Leon has been fine, not worth $8.5MM, but that's also on Chia. Letestu found lightning in a bottle last year on the PP - he was 11th in PP goals in the NHL!! I'm not sure what to say if Chia was expecting him to repeat that. He had 18 EV pts last year. He's on pace for 13 this year. Not great, but not a huge drop off.

He mentions the Eberle trade as a "sore spot for fans", as if he doesn't really think it was a bad deal (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't given his comments about Eberle being mentally weak), and then immediately shifts the blame saying that the "downgrade in wingers has been exacerbated by all the regulars having poor seasons". Except they haven't. Lucic's numbers are about the same, RNH already has 15 goals and 30 points, he only scored 18/43 last year.

Klefbom has had a tough year for sure, but I would say Chia's decision to not replace Sekera at all has had a way bigger impact.

This isn't about the players not playing up to expectations, not by a long shot.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 pace: 262 GF / 219 GA (+43) after 21 games

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706707 is a reply to message #706700 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 5161
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

5 Cups

Chia gets axed, but then new GM comes in, gives McLellan a year (or less) to prove himself, then axes him to bring in "his man".

1. underperforms, Chia fired

2. Lombardi hired (Katz like winners, he's the most recent available Cup winning GM)

2a. Oilers slapped with draft penalty to Kings for stealing exec still under contract rtft

3. Lombardi guts roster to start over

4. team underperforms

5. Lombardi fires McLellen

6. Lombardi hires Sutter

7. goto 1 replacing names

...

998. nuclear war, humanity obliterated, only cochroaches survive

999. Buchberger longest serving/surviving member of organization, finally named head coach

(for entertainment purposes only)

[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2018 01:20]


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706708 is a reply to message #706707 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
Messages: 2521
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

nullterm wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 01:17



999. Buchberger longest serving/surviving member of organization, finally named head coach




Buchy is working for the NYI all year 2000 Oilers coaching staff with Doug Weight and Luke Richardson.

****EDIT**** ... and Freddie Braithwaite.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2018 03:18]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706711 is a reply to message #706708 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jakey  is currently offline Jakey
Messages: 362
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

If Chiarelli gets the boot I hope they go after Nashville asst GM Paul Fenton. He has an amazing resume, has a nose for drafting/development acumen & is supposed to be behind a lot of the trades that Poole has made the last 2-3 years.


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706714 is a reply to message #706703 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4746
Registered: January 2016

4 Cups

Goose wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 00:17

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 January 2018 21:46


- the first shot fired here, and it's definitely at the players, who haven't lived up to the expectations the team had of them.

Quote:

Why has Oscar Klefbom’s game descended so far? What happened to sophomores Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning? Why have Pat Maroon and Zack Kassian not been the players they were last season? What on earth happened to Mark Letestu's usually dependable game? Why does Leon Draisaitl’s game come and go like the wind?


- That's Spector helping to lay blame at players' feet, naming names where the GM did not.



Spector represents the laziest of the lazy MSM.

Caggiula, Benning, Maroon, and Kassian are all scoring at basically the exact same rate they did last year. Benning has had his struggles, but he's a 2nd year defenceman coming off of a concussion. Chia not realizing there was risk there is entirely his own fault. Leon has been fine, not worth $8.5MM, but that's also on Chia. Letestu found lightning in a bottle last year on the PP - he was 11th in PP goals in the NHL!! I'm not sure what to say if Chia was expecting him to repeat that. He had 18 EV pts last year. He's on pace for 13 this year. Not great, but not a huge drop off.

He mentions the Eberle trade as a "sore spot for fans", as if he doesn't really think it was a bad deal (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't given his comments about Eberle being mentally weak), and then immediately shifts the blame saying that the "downgrade in wingers has been exacerbated by all the regulars having poor seasons". Except they haven't. Lucic's numbers are about the same, RNH already has 15 goals and 30 points, he only scored 18/43 last year.

Klefbom has had a tough year for sure, but I would say Chia's decision to not replace Sekera at all has had a way bigger impact.

This isn't about the players not playing up to expectations, not by a long shot.


So you think that all the Oilers players, forget having a better year, have been just as good as last year. REALLY? I am not coming here to pass the buck. There is blame to be put on the coaches as the special teams are physically losing them games especially at home and whatever adjustments or systems or whatever else the coaches are doing just isn't working. There is definitely blame to put on the GM as he made some bets on some guys and very few aren't working. But how anyone can not also put blame on the players and say they are not playing up to expectations is baffling to me.

Other than McDavid and Nuge, who on the Oilers team has even had an OK year? Nurse has taken a step. But who else?

Leon hasn't been terrible because points wise 33 pts in 39 games is a 70 pt season. But he's got 1 PP goal and 4 PP pts. He had 10 goals, 27 pts on the PP. So I guess 5 on 5 he's doing awesome scoring but what the hell happened on the PP?

Klefbom had 12 goals, 38 pts last year. He has 3 goals, 10 pts in 39 games this year. That's a 21 pt pace. How do you as a team project Klefbom scoring HALF the points he did last year? Maybe you assume he will score the same or ever so slightly less but HALF as much? That's massive. That doesn't even count how brutal at times defensively he has been for most of the year.

Benning at times last year looked like a guy who in short order will have a second pairing spot locked up. When Russell was signed, many people were pissed with the argument being "When Benning passes him on the depth chart...." Is Benning passing anyone other than Gryba who's a 6-7 dman? NO. As a team being that it's his second year, do you expect him to have some ups and downs? Absolutely. Do you expect him to not even look like an NHLer in probably HALF the games he's played? Not a chance. He's been scratched 4 times and on many a night he's been the Oilers worst dman by a mile.

Maroon. You say he is basically scoring at the same rate. HUH? He had 27 goals last year. He has 9 in 41. That's an 18 goal pace. As a team maybe you don't expect him to score 27 again but I don't think you expect him to be less than 20 and off McDavid's line because he's not good enough. Especially in a contract year. He hasn't been close to the say player with all the other things he usually does.

Caggulia had 7 goals, 18 pts in 61 games last year. As a team, do you seriously expect him to put up the same numbers again? Those are 4th liner numbers. I would expect him to at least slightly improve on those numbers. I don't see him as a 4th liner, do you?

Kassian hasn't been close to as good. He had what 4 goals called back last year. I thought he was a lock for over 10.

Slep I thought would be a lock to be in the line up every night. He doesn't even look like a full time NHLer.

Letestu has been brutal defensively. As a team you don't expect him to continue to score like he did last year but defensively, he's fallen off substantially.

Talbot was what 4th in vezina votes last year? He has a .902 save percentage and a 3.19 GA this year. Do you expect your pushing for a vezina nomination goalie to be putting up numbers you wouldn't even want to get from a back up? Are his numbers all his fault? No but he's been no where near as good this year.

There is what, 8 players I listed off the top of my head who aren't even having mediocre seasons. Leon is about the only one he's doing "OK" but I sure wouldn't saying he's having a good year. Where would the Oilers be if even half the guys I listed above for having average years? Hell if Talbot by himself was having just an average NHL starter year, they'd be a bubble playoff team.

So again, I am not giving a pass to McLellan, the rest of the coaches or the GM but there are WAY too many guys flat out playing like crap on many nights. The PK is a perfect example. On the road, the PK is I believe in the mid 80's. At home, it's barely 50%. It's not like they deploy different players on the road and a different system. It's the same guys, same system. If the players are blameless, then how can the PK as an example be that much different at home than away? If it's all the coaches and GM, then the PK should be just as crap on the road but it isn't.

People can complain about the Eberle trade and it being a downgrade. I won't argue with that. Strome hasn't been good enough but at the same time, I have a hard time ripping him when he's been on the 3rd line for the entire year. Out of camp, he didn't look too bad on McDavid's wing, scored a few goals, why the hell the coaches refused to try him with McDavid from the start is baffling to me. I had been calling for the Oilers to play Leon and McDavid on different lines in the summer and it took the coaches what 20 some games to break them up which is stupid. But if Eberle was here, Eberle wouldn't help them on the PK. Their PK is physically losing them games especially at home. Eberle wouldn't help them with the goaltending. The goaltending has lost them games all year long. Their defense and how bad Klefbom and Benning were, especially the first 20 games were losing them games. So while I am not excusing the trade, I don't see how the Oilers would have been much better because the 3 things that have been the major problem, PK, goaltending and the defense, Eberle doesn't help you with.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2018 09:33]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706718 is a reply to message #706714 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 14041
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 08:53

Goose wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 00:17

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 January 2018 21:46


- the first shot fired here, and it's definitely at the players, who haven't lived up to the expectations the team had of them.

Quote:

Why has Oscar Klefbom’s game descended so far? What happened to sophomores Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning? Why have Pat Maroon and Zack Kassian not been the players they were last season? What on earth happened to Mark Letestu's usually dependable game? Why does Leon Draisaitl’s game come and go like the wind?


- That's Spector helping to lay blame at players' feet, naming names where the GM did not.



Spector represents the laziest of the lazy MSM.

Caggiula, Benning, Maroon, and Kassian are all scoring at basically the exact same rate they did last year. Benning has had his struggles, but he's a 2nd year defenceman coming off of a concussion. Chia not realizing there was risk there is entirely his own fault. Leon has been fine, not worth $8.5MM, but that's also on Chia. Letestu found lightning in a bottle last year on the PP - he was 11th in PP goals in the NHL!! I'm not sure what to say if Chia was expecting him to repeat that. He had 18 EV pts last year. He's on pace for 13 this year. Not great, but not a huge drop off.

He mentions the Eberle trade as a "sore spot for fans", as if he doesn't really think it was a bad deal (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't given his comments about Eberle being mentally weak), and then immediately shifts the blame saying that the "downgrade in wingers has been exacerbated by all the regulars having poor seasons". Except they haven't. Lucic's numbers are about the same, RNH already has 15 goals and 30 points, he only scored 18/43 last year.

Klefbom has had a tough year for sure, but I would say Chia's decision to not replace Sekera at all has had a way bigger impact.

This isn't about the players not playing up to expectations, not by a long shot.


So you think that all the Oilers players, forget having a better year, have been just as good as last year. REALLY? I am not coming here to pass the buck. There is blame to be put on the coaches as the special teams are physically losing them games especially at home and whatever adjustments or systems or whatever else the coaches are doing just isn't working. There is definitely blame to put on the GM as he made some bets on some guys and very few aren't working. But how anyone can not also put blame on the players and say they are not playing up to expectations is baffling to me.

Other than McDavid and Nuge, who on the Oilers team has even had an OK year? Nurse has taken a step. But who else?

Leon hasn't been terrible because points wise 33 pts in 39 games is a 70 pt season. But he's got 1 PP goal and 4 PP pts. He had 10 goals, 27 pts on the PP. So I guess 5 on 5 he's doing awesome scoring but what the hell happened on the PP?

Klefbom had 12 goals, 38 pts last year. He has 3 goals, 10 pts in 39 games this year. That's a 21 pt pace. How do you as a team project Klefbom scoring HALF the points he did last year? Maybe you assume he will score the same or ever so slightly less but HALF as much? That's massive. That doesn't even count how brutal at times defensively he has been for most of the year.

Benning at times last year looked like a guy who in short order will have a second pairing spot locked up. When Russell was signed, many people were pissed with the argument being "When Benning passes him on the depth chart...." Is Benning passing anyone other than Gryba who's a 6-7 dman? NO. As a team being that it's his second year, do you expect him to have some ups and downs? Absolutely. Do you expect him to not even look like an NHLer in probably HALF the games he's played? Not a chance. He's been scratched 4 times and on many a night he's been the Oilers worst dman by a mile.

Maroon. You say he is basically scoring at the same rate. HUH? He had 27 goals last year. He has 9 in 41. That's an 18 goal pace. As a team maybe you don't expect him to score 27 again but I don't think you expect him to be less than 20 and off McDavid's line because he's not good enough. Especially in a contract year. He hasn't been close to the say player with all the other things he usually does.

Caggulia had 7 goals, 18 pts in 61 games last year. As a team, do you seriously expect him to put up the same numbers again? Those are 4th liner numbers. I would expect him to at least slightly improve on those numbers. I don't see him as a 4th liner, do you?

Kassian hasn't been close to as good. He had what 4 goals called back last year. I thought he was a lock for over 10.

Slep I thought would be a lock to be in the line up every night. He doesn't even look like a full time NHLer.

Letestu has been brutal defensively. As a team you don't expect him to continue to score like he did last year but defensively, he's fallen off substantially.

Talbot was what 4th in vezina votes last year? He has a .902 save percentage and a 3.19 GA this year. Do you expect your pushing for a vezina nomination goalie to be putting up numbers you wouldn't even want to get from a back up? Are his numbers all his fault? No but he's been no where near as good this year.

There is what, 8 players I listed off the top of my head who aren't even having mediocre seasons. Leon is about the only one he's doing "OK" but I sure wouldn't saying he's having a good year. Where would the Oilers be if even half the guys I listed above for having average years? Hell if Talbot by himself was having just an average NHL starter year, they'd be a bubble playoff team.

So again, I am not giving a pass to McLellan, the rest of the coaches or the GM but there are WAY too many guys flat out playing like crap on many nights. The PK is a perfect example. On the road, the PK is I believe in the mid 80's. At home, it's barely 50%. It's not like they deploy different players on the road and a different system. It's the same guys, same system. If the players are blameless, then how can the PK as an example be that much different at home than away? If it's all the coaches and GM, then the PK should be just as crap on the road but it isn't.

People can complain about the Eberle trade and it being a downgrade. I won't argue with that. Strome hasn't been good enough but at the same time, I have a hard time ripping him when he's been on the 3rd line for the entire year. Out of camp, he didn't look too bad on McDavid's wing, scored a few goals, why the hell the coaches refused to try him with McDavid from the start is baffling to me. I had been calling for the Oilers to play Leon and McDavid on different lines in the summer and it took the coaches what 20 some games to break them up which is stupid. But if Eberle was here, Eberle wouldn't help them on the PK. Their PK is physically losing them games especially at home. Eberle wouldn't help them with the goaltending. The goaltending has lost them games all year long. Their defense and how bad Klefbom and Benning were, especially the first 20 games were losing them games. So while I am not excusing the trade, I don't see how the Oilers would have been much better because the 3 things that have been the major problem, PK, goaltending and the defense, Eberle doesn't help you with.



As PO'd as I am at almost everything to do with this org right now, if I step back, I think the 2 major issues we had this year were:

1) Goaltending. This is partially Chia's fault for not having a real backup, but Talbot was just awful for the first maybe even 2 months of the year. No team can build any confidence if they feel like every mistake they make will end up in their net. Add on top of that a coach that obsesses about every mistake and has his BFF sending you custom videos of every one of them, and you probably can get pretty mind-f'd. This team started off hot this year, had some bad luck not scoring, but coupled with the brutal luck from their own goalies and a coach harping on mistakes, they slowly turned to playing scared, and that is a recipe for disaster.

2) Special teams. This is at this point 80% a coaching issue IMO. This coaching staff is incapable of making the best use of what they have on the PP. And their stubbornness coaching our overly aggressive PK is getting ridiculous. Maybe the PK is better on the road, but i think some of that is just dumb luck. We have still been allowing glorious chances on the road and teams have just been missing the wide open nets. Overall, it's still a historically bad PK, and just at home, it's by far the worst ever seen in the NHL.

Again, how can you play aggressive if you think every penalty you take will end up with a GA? Leads to more playing scared. Guys still take dumb penalties, but it's usually out of frustration, knowing that another loss is coming. In general though, most of our players play like they are neutered unless we are playing a "rival" (if you can call them that, mainly Calgary, Anaheim and the Sharks). And the PP, just whatever at this point, keep trying to set Letestu up boys, I'm sure it'll work one day again.


So, IMO, those 2 things have cratered this season the most. Can add on top how Klef may be playing injured (rumour that he was injured last playoffs? Did the org convince him to not get a surgery because Sek was out already?). Lack of wing depth obviously is a problem. Larsson seemed to get his back messed up at some point, but season was already pretty much over by then. General lack of D depth an issue too of course with Sek out, especially if we knew Klef was gonna be constantly rehabbing an injury.

There is not much left to really pay attention to, this team has mailed it in. They all know the season is over. Eventually I'm sure they will start playing loose and for some pride again, and McLellan will get credit for turning things around, but we are in danger of this season repeating if we don't at least find some help for this coaching staff and get a real backup goalie IMO. And if we want to ensure we are more than a bubble team, we need to find a way to get another puck moving D in the top 4, and at least 1 more fast winger that can put a puck in the net. Dahlin can probably take care of one of those :) Chia needs to make a move for the other. And of course I am ignoring cap hell, but whatever, Chia or the next GM need to figure it out.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2018 10:03]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706721 is a reply to message #706695 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 5824
Registered: February 2011

5 Cups

I actually still haven't given up on the season yet, but IMO the organization has to make a change to the coaching staff (top to bottom) at the least if they're going to turn things around. I'm going to keep asking "So, what's Darryl doing right now?" until I feel the season is a lost cause.


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706723 is a reply to message #706708 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 5161
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

5 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 02:09

nullterm wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 01:17



999. Buchberger longest serving/surviving member of organization, finally named head coach




Buchy is working for the NYI all year 2000 Oilers coaching staff with Doug Weight and Luke Richardson.

****EDIT**** ... and Freddie Braithwaite.


He’ll find a way back, they always do



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706724 is a reply to message #706718 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 09:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 08:53

Goose wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 00:17

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 January 2018 21:46


- the first shot fired here, and it's definitely at the players, who haven't lived up to the expectations the team had of them.

Quote:

Why has Oscar Klefbom’s game descended so far? What happened to sophomores Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning? Why have Pat Maroon and Zack Kassian not been the players they were last season? What on earth happened to Mark Letestu's usually dependable game? Why does Leon Draisaitl’s game come and go like the wind?


- That's Spector helping to lay blame at players' feet, naming names where the GM did not.



Spector represents the laziest of the lazy MSM.

Caggiula, Benning, Maroon, and Kassian are all scoring at basically the exact same rate they did last year. Benning has had his struggles, but he's a 2nd year defenceman coming off of a concussion. Chia not realizing there was risk there is entirely his own fault. Leon has been fine, not worth $8.5MM, but that's also on Chia. Letestu found lightning in a bottle last year on the PP - he was 11th in PP goals in the NHL!! I'm not sure what to say if Chia was expecting him to repeat that. He had 18 EV pts last year. He's on pace for 13 this year. Not great, but not a huge drop off.

He mentions the Eberle trade as a "sore spot for fans", as if he doesn't really think it was a bad deal (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't given his comments about Eberle being mentally weak), and then immediately shifts the blame saying that the "downgrade in wingers has been exacerbated by all the regulars having poor seasons". Except they haven't. Lucic's numbers are about the same, RNH already has 15 goals and 30 points, he only scored 18/43 last year.

Klefbom has had a tough year for sure, but I would say Chia's decision to not replace Sekera at all has had a way bigger impact.

This isn't about the players not playing up to expectations, not by a long shot.


So you think that all the Oilers players, forget having a better year, have been just as good as last year. REALLY? I am not coming here to pass the buck. There is blame to be put on the coaches as the special teams are physically losing them games especially at home and whatever adjustments or systems or whatever else the coaches are doing just isn't working. There is definitely blame to put on the GM as he made some bets on some guys and very few aren't working. But how anyone can not also put blame on the players and say they are not playing up to expectations is baffling to me.

Other than McDavid and Nuge, who on the Oilers team has even had an OK year? Nurse has taken a step. But who else?

Leon hasn't been terrible because points wise 33 pts in 39 games is a 70 pt season. But he's got 1 PP goal and 4 PP pts. He had 10 goals, 27 pts on the PP. So I guess 5 on 5 he's doing awesome scoring but what the hell happened on the PP?

Klefbom had 12 goals, 38 pts last year. He has 3 goals, 10 pts in 39 games this year. That's a 21 pt pace. How do you as a team project Klefbom scoring HALF the points he did last year? Maybe you assume he will score the same or ever so slightly less but HALF as much? That's massive. That doesn't even count how brutal at times defensively he has been for most of the year.

Benning at times last year looked like a guy who in short order will have a second pairing spot locked up. When Russell was signed, many people were pissed with the argument being "When Benning passes him on the depth chart...." Is Benning passing anyone other than Gryba who's a 6-7 dman? NO. As a team being that it's his second year, do you expect him to have some ups and downs? Absolutely. Do you expect him to not even look like an NHLer in probably HALF the games he's played? Not a chance. He's been scratched 4 times and on many a night he's been the Oilers worst dman by a mile.

Maroon. You say he is basically scoring at the same rate. HUH? He had 27 goals last year. He has 9 in 41. That's an 18 goal pace. As a team maybe you don't expect him to score 27 again but I don't think you expect him to be less than 20 and off McDavid's line because he's not good enough. Especially in a contract year. He hasn't been close to the say player with all the other things he usually does.

Caggulia had 7 goals, 18 pts in 61 games last year. As a team, do you seriously expect him to put up the same numbers again? Those are 4th liner numbers. I would expect him to at least slightly improve on those numbers. I don't see him as a 4th liner, do you?

Kassian hasn't been close to as good. He had what 4 goals called back last year. I thought he was a lock for over 10.

Slep I thought would be a lock to be in the line up every night. He doesn't even look like a full time NHLer.

Letestu has been brutal defensively. As a team you don't expect him to continue to score like he did last year but defensively, he's fallen off substantially.

Talbot was what 4th in vezina votes last year? He has a .902 save percentage and a 3.19 GA this year. Do you expect your pushing for a vezina nomination goalie to be putting up numbers you wouldn't even want to get from a back up? Are his numbers all his fault? No but he's been no where near as good this year.

There is what, 8 players I listed off the top of my head who aren't even having mediocre seasons. Leon is about the only one he's doing "OK" but I sure wouldn't saying he's having a good year. Where would the Oilers be if even half the guys I listed above for having average years? Hell if Talbot by himself was having just an average NHL starter year, they'd be a bubble playoff team.

So again, I am not giving a pass to McLellan, the rest of the coaches or the GM but there are WAY too many guys flat out playing like crap on many nights. The PK is a perfect example. On the road, the PK is I believe in the mid 80's. At home, it's barely 50%. It's not like they deploy different players on the road and a different system. It's the same guys, same system. If the players are blameless, then how can the PK as an example be that much different at home than away? If it's all the coaches and GM, then the PK should be just as crap on the road but it isn't.

People can complain about the Eberle trade and it being a downgrade. I won't argue with that. Strome hasn't been good enough but at the same time, I have a hard time ripping him when he's been on the 3rd line for the entire year. Out of camp, he didn't look too bad on McDavid's wing, scored a few goals, why the hell the coaches refused to try him with McDavid from the start is baffling to me. I had been calling for the Oilers to play Leon and McDavid on different lines in the summer and it took the coaches what 20 some games to break them up which is stupid. But if Eberle was here, Eberle wouldn't help them on the PK. Their PK is physically losing them games especially at home. Eberle wouldn't help them with the goaltending. The goaltending has lost them games all year long. Their defense and how bad Klefbom and Benning were, especially the first 20 games were losing them games. So while I am not excusing the trade, I don't see how the Oilers would have been much better because the 3 things that have been the major problem, PK, goaltending and the defense, Eberle doesn't help you with.



As PO'd as I am at almost everything to do with this org right now, if I step back, I think the 2 major issues we had this year were:

1) Goaltending. This is partially Chia's fault for not having a real backup, but Talbot was just awful for the first maybe even 2 months of the year. No team can build any confidence if they feel like every mistake they make will end up in their net. Add on top of that a coach that obsesses about every mistake and has his BFF sending you custom videos of every one of them, and you probably can get pretty mind-f'd. This team started off hot this year, had some bad luck not scoring, but coupled with the brutal luck from their own goalies and a coach harping on mistakes, they slowly turned to playing scared, and that is a recipe for disaster.

2) Special teams. This is at this point 80% a coaching issue IMO. This coaching staff is incapable of making the best use of what they have on the PP. And their stubbornness coaching our overly aggressive PK is getting ridiculous. Maybe the PK is better on the road, but i think some of that is just dumb luck. We have still been allowing glorious chances on the road and teams have just been missing the wide open nets. Overall, it's still a historically bad PK, and just at home, it's by far the worst ever seen in the NHL.

Again, how can you play aggressive if you think every penalty you take will end up with a GA? Leads to more playing scared. Guys still take dumb penalties, but it's usually out of frustration, knowing that another loss is coming. In general though, most of our players play like they are neutered unless we are playing a "rival" (if you can call them that, mainly Calgary, Anaheim and the Sharks). And the PP, just whatever at this point, keep trying to set Letestu up boys, I'm sure it'll work one day again.


So, IMO, those 2 things have cratered this season the most. Can add on top how Klef may be playing injured (rumour that he was injured last playoffs? Did the org convince him to not get a surgery because Sek was out already?). Lack of wing depth obviously is a problem. Larsson seemed to get his back messed up at some point, but season was already pretty much over by then. General lack of D depth an issue too of course with Sek out, especially if we knew Klef was gonna be constantly rehabbing an injury.

There is not much left to really pay attention to, this team has mailed it in. They all know the season is over. Eventually I'm sure they will start playing loose and for some pride again, and McLellan will get credit for turning things around, but we are in danger of this season repeating if we don't at least find some help for this coaching staff and get a real backup goalie IMO. And if we want to ensure we are more than a bubble team, we need to find a way to get another puck moving D in the top 4, and at least 1 more fast winger that can put a puck in the net. Dahlin can probably take care of one of those :) Chia needs to make a move for the other. And of course I am ignoring cap hell, but whatever, Chia or the next GM need to figure it out.




I agree with you a bit on the goaltending but not totally. On one hand they had Brossoit who's AHL numbers were pretty good, the organization had invested a ton of time developing him and at some point you have to give the guy the chance to prove himself. So how do you prove he can do the job if you bring in someone else. In my opinion, Brossoit not being able to be the back up is 100% on him. He turns 25 in March, at his age, he should be a cabable NHL back up if he has any chance of ever being a starter. It's all mental with him. But in hindsight, they should have had someone else. But where I disagree is I am not so sure how much of a difference having a capable back up would that have made. The Oilers schedule was pretty good in the amount of days between games for the first month and a half. They didn't have a single back to back until the middle of November. Every game had at least a couple of days between, some had more time between. So Talbot got plenty of rest. So I wonder how much any back up would have actually played? Talbot was way below his usual the first 6 weeks at least. Maybe a better back up gets in one or 2 more games but Talbot is their guy, he is coming off a season where he was 4th in Vezina votes last year. I just don't see how even when he was struggling you yank him and sit him for a stretch. I am not saying it's right but I just don't see a scenario where he is playing a ton less regardless of who the back up was.

I look at the Flames last year and this year. The Flames were a decent team last year but got crap goaltending for the first couple of months. THe goaltending got hot and the squeaked into the playoffs. This year, the Flames are again a decent team but they have gotten steady goaltending from Smith the whole season. The Oilers won 4 games in a row prior to Christmas where they played well but also got pretty good goaltending. Other than that, I can't remember a time when the Oilers have had really good goaltending for a big chunk of time.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2018 11:02]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706731 is a reply to message #706724 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 14041
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:56

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 09:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 08:53

Goose wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 00:17

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 January 2018 21:46


- the first shot fired here, and it's definitely at the players, who haven't lived up to the expectations the team had of them.

Quote:

Why has Oscar Klefbom’s game descended so far? What happened to sophomores Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning? Why have Pat Maroon and Zack Kassian not been the players they were last season? What on earth happened to Mark Letestu's usually dependable game? Why does Leon Draisaitl’s game come and go like the wind?


- That's Spector helping to lay blame at players' feet, naming names where the GM did not.



Spector represents the laziest of the lazy MSM.

Caggiula, Benning, Maroon, and Kassian are all scoring at basically the exact same rate they did last year. Benning has had his struggles, but he's a 2nd year defenceman coming off of a concussion. Chia not realizing there was risk there is entirely his own fault. Leon has been fine, not worth $8.5MM, but that's also on Chia. Letestu found lightning in a bottle last year on the PP - he was 11th in PP goals in the NHL!! I'm not sure what to say if Chia was expecting him to repeat that. He had 18 EV pts last year. He's on pace for 13 this year. Not great, but not a huge drop off.

He mentions the Eberle trade as a "sore spot for fans", as if he doesn't really think it was a bad deal (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't given his comments about Eberle being mentally weak), and then immediately shifts the blame saying that the "downgrade in wingers has been exacerbated by all the regulars having poor seasons". Except they haven't. Lucic's numbers are about the same, RNH already has 15 goals and 30 points, he only scored 18/43 last year.

Klefbom has had a tough year for sure, but I would say Chia's decision to not replace Sekera at all has had a way bigger impact.

This isn't about the players not playing up to expectations, not by a long shot.


So you think that all the Oilers players, forget having a better year, have been just as good as last year. REALLY? I am not coming here to pass the buck. There is blame to be put on the coaches as the special teams are physically losing them games especially at home and whatever adjustments or systems or whatever else the coaches are doing just isn't working. There is definitely blame to put on the GM as he made some bets on some guys and very few aren't working. But how anyone can not also put blame on the players and say they are not playing up to expectations is baffling to me.

Other than McDavid and Nuge, who on the Oilers team has even had an OK year? Nurse has taken a step. But who else?

Leon hasn't been terrible because points wise 33 pts in 39 games is a 70 pt season. But he's got 1 PP goal and 4 PP pts. He had 10 goals, 27 pts on the PP. So I guess 5 on 5 he's doing awesome scoring but what the hell happened on the PP?

Klefbom had 12 goals, 38 pts last year. He has 3 goals, 10 pts in 39 games this year. That's a 21 pt pace. How do you as a team project Klefbom scoring HALF the points he did last year? Maybe you assume he will score the same or ever so slightly less but HALF as much? That's massive. That doesn't even count how brutal at times defensively he has been for most of the year.

Benning at times last year looked like a guy who in short order will have a second pairing spot locked up. When Russell was signed, many people were pissed with the argument being "When Benning passes him on the depth chart...." Is Benning passing anyone other than Gryba who's a 6-7 dman? NO. As a team being that it's his second year, do you expect him to have some ups and downs? Absolutely. Do you expect him to not even look like an NHLer in probably HALF the games he's played? Not a chance. He's been scratched 4 times and on many a night he's been the Oilers worst dman by a mile.

Maroon. You say he is basically scoring at the same rate. HUH? He had 27 goals last year. He has 9 in 41. That's an 18 goal pace. As a team maybe you don't expect him to score 27 again but I don't think you expect him to be less than 20 and off McDavid's line because he's not good enough. Especially in a contract year. He hasn't been close to the say player with all the other things he usually does.

Caggulia had 7 goals, 18 pts in 61 games last year. As a team, do you seriously expect him to put up the same numbers again? Those are 4th liner numbers. I would expect him to at least slightly improve on those numbers. I don't see him as a 4th liner, do you?

Kassian hasn't been close to as good. He had what 4 goals called back last year. I thought he was a lock for over 10.

Slep I thought would be a lock to be in the line up every night. He doesn't even look like a full time NHLer.

Letestu has been brutal defensively. As a team you don't expect him to continue to score like he did last year but defensively, he's fallen off substantially.

Talbot was what 4th in vezina votes last year? He has a .902 save percentage and a 3.19 GA this year. Do you expect your pushing for a vezina nomination goalie to be putting up numbers you wouldn't even want to get from a back up? Are his numbers all his fault? No but he's been no where near as good this year.

There is what, 8 players I listed off the top of my head who aren't even having mediocre seasons. Leon is about the only one he's doing "OK" but I sure wouldn't saying he's having a good year. Where would the Oilers be if even half the guys I listed above for having average years? Hell if Talbot by himself was having just an average NHL starter year, they'd be a bubble playoff team.

So again, I am not giving a pass to McLellan, the rest of the coaches or the GM but there are WAY too many guys flat out playing like crap on many nights. The PK is a perfect example. On the road, the PK is I believe in the mid 80's. At home, it's barely 50%. It's not like they deploy different players on the road and a different system. It's the same guys, same system. If the players are blameless, then how can the PK as an example be that much different at home than away? If it's all the coaches and GM, then the PK should be just as crap on the road but it isn't.

People can complain about the Eberle trade and it being a downgrade. I won't argue with that. Strome hasn't been good enough but at the same time, I have a hard time ripping him when he's been on the 3rd line for the entire year. Out of camp, he didn't look too bad on McDavid's wing, scored a few goals, why the hell the coaches refused to try him with McDavid from the start is baffling to me. I had been calling for the Oilers to play Leon and McDavid on different lines in the summer and it took the coaches what 20 some games to break them up which is stupid. But if Eberle was here, Eberle wouldn't help them on the PK. Their PK is physically losing them games especially at home. Eberle wouldn't help them with the goaltending. The goaltending has lost them games all year long. Their defense and how bad Klefbom and Benning were, especially the first 20 games were losing them games. So while I am not excusing the trade, I don't see how the Oilers would have been much better because the 3 things that have been the major problem, PK, goaltending and the defense, Eberle doesn't help you with.



As PO'd as I am at almost everything to do with this org right now, if I step back, I think the 2 major issues we had this year were:

1) Goaltending. This is partially Chia's fault for not having a real backup, but Talbot was just awful for the first maybe even 2 months of the year. No team can build any confidence if they feel like every mistake they make will end up in their net. Add on top of that a coach that obsesses about every mistake and has his BFF sending you custom videos of every one of them, and you probably can get pretty mind-f'd. This team started off hot this year, had some bad luck not scoring, but coupled with the brutal luck from their own goalies and a coach harping on mistakes, they slowly turned to playing scared, and that is a recipe for disaster.

2) Special teams. This is at this point 80% a coaching issue IMO. This coaching staff is incapable of making the best use of what they have on the PP. And their stubbornness coaching our overly aggressive PK is getting ridiculous. Maybe the PK is better on the road, but i think some of that is just dumb luck. We have still been allowing glorious chances on the road and teams have just been missing the wide open nets. Overall, it's still a historically bad PK, and just at home, it's by far the worst ever seen in the NHL.

Again, how can you play aggressive if you think every penalty you take will end up with a GA? Leads to more playing scared. Guys still take dumb penalties, but it's usually out of frustration, knowing that another loss is coming. In general though, most of our players play like they are neutered unless we are playing a "rival" (if you can call them that, mainly Calgary, Anaheim and the Sharks). And the PP, just whatever at this point, keep trying to set Letestu up boys, I'm sure it'll work one day again.


So, IMO, those 2 things have cratered this season the most. Can add on top how Klef may be playing injured (rumour that he was injured last playoffs? Did the org convince him to not get a surgery because Sek was out already?). Lack of wing depth obviously is a problem. Larsson seemed to get his back messed up at some point, but season was already pretty much over by then. General lack of D depth an issue too of course with Sek out, especially if we knew Klef was gonna be constantly rehabbing an injury.

There is not much left to really pay attention to, this team has mailed it in. They all know the season is over. Eventually I'm sure they will start playing loose and for some pride again, and McLellan will get credit for turning things around, but we are in danger of this season repeating if we don't at least find some help for this coaching staff and get a real backup goalie IMO. And if we want to ensure we are more than a bubble team, we need to find a way to get another puck moving D in the top 4, and at least 1 more fast winger that can put a puck in the net. Dahlin can probably take care of one of those :) Chia needs to make a move for the other. And of course I am ignoring cap hell, but whatever, Chia or the next GM need to figure it out.




I agree with you a bit on the goaltending but not totally. On one hand they had Brossoit who's AHL numbers were pretty good, the organization had invested a ton of time developing him and at some point you have to give the guy the chance to prove himself. So how do you prove he can do the job if you bring in someone else. In my opinion, Brossoit not being able to be the back up is 100% on him. He turns 25 in March, at his age, he should be a cabable NHL back up if he has any chance of ever being a starter. It's all mental with him. But in hindsight, they should have had someone else. But where I disagree is I am not so sure how much of a difference having a capable back up would that have made. The Oilers schedule was pretty good in the amount of days between games for the first month and a half. They didn't have a single back to back until the middle of November. Every game had at least a couple of days between, some had more time between. So Talbot got plenty of rest. So I wonder how much any back up would have actually played? Talbot was way below his usual the first 6 weeks at least. Maybe a better back up gets in one or 2 more games but Talbot is their guy, he is coming off a season where he was 4th in Vezina votes last year. I just don't see how even when he was struggling you yank him and sit him for a stretch. I am not saying it's right but I just don't see a scenario where he is playing a ton less regardless of who the back up was.

I look at the Flames last year and this year. The Flames were a decent team last year but got crap goaltending for the first couple of months. THe goaltending got hot and the squeaked into the playoffs. This year, the Flames are again a decent team but they have gotten steady goaltending from Smith the whole season. The Oilers won 4 games in a row prior to Christmas where they played well but also got pretty good goaltending. Other than that, I can't remember a time when the Oilers have had really good goaltending for a big chunk of time.


I didn't think LB was ready before the season started, so from my perspective, we were setting ourselves up to have 2 bad goalies if Talbot struggled. A decent backup gives you some insulation if your starter is struggling, and maybe even a little competition. With LB though, you are scared to play the backup even when your starter is in the tank, and then when you do finally give up and play the backup, you just get another lousy performance and you have to throw your struggling starter back in ASAP. Basically, you have 1 point of failure, and that certainly happened this year.

I'm not sure if it's LB's fault for not being a starter at 25. Does every goalie have to be a starter at 25? AHL is full of guys older that can't make the NHL, and LB is not joining the flock. It's up to NHL management to know if a guy is ready or not, and they screwed up with LB and just kept on hoping.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706734 is a reply to message #706695 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
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Registered: January 2006
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I don't buy it. This regime will dig their heals in.

What will happen first?:

The "Winds of Change"

or

Release of "The Winds of Winter"



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706735 is a reply to message #706721 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fridge01  is currently offline Fridge01
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Location: Kelowna

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The more I see the screams our roster isn't good enough, the more I question who then would trade it for Vegas straight up?

Oilers are good enough. Oilers are not playing good enough.

Who is that on? The Coaches? The Players? Sure I believe Chia has made some terrible trades, but ultimately this roster is not worse than Vegas... but their record sure it.

This is an on ice problem, and unfortunately the first finger there is always the coaching staff.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706737 is a reply to message #706735 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Fridge01 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 12:13

The more I see the screams our roster isn't good enough, the more I question who then would trade it for Vegas straight up?

Oilers are good enough. Oilers are not playing good enough.

Who is that on? The Coaches? The Players? Sure I believe Chia has made some terrible trades, but ultimately this roster is not worse than Vegas... but their record sure it.

This is an on ice problem, and unfortunately the first finger there is always the coaching staff.


hehe, that's a good thought experiment.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure TMac and his BFF would have made Vegas perform just like we all thought they would before this season started.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706738 is a reply to message #706695 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 1840
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

I am just going to prepare myself for the day that Chiarelli is fired, and Lowe+MacT+Nicholson+Howson are still allowed to hire some other ding dong.


Clean house or bust

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706739 is a reply to message #706735 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Fridge01 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 12:13

The more I see the screams our roster isn't good enough, the more I question who then would trade it for Vegas straight up?

Oilers are good enough. Oilers are not playing good enough.

Who is that on? The Coaches? The Players? Sure I believe Chia has made some terrible trades, but ultimately this roster is not worse than Vegas... but their record sure it.

This is an on ice problem, and unfortunately the first finger there is always the coaching staff.

I'd trade Oilers management for Golden Knights management straight up right now. Yesterday, actually. Yes the Oilers roster isn't good enough (but they have McDavid, so no trade) but the roster isn't good enough because Chiarelli actively sabotaged it over the off season.



This is fine.

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706742 is a reply to message #706735 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
Messages: 1128
Registered: January 2009
Location: Medicine Hat,AB

1 Cup

This team is just a train wreck. Look what PC did to the Bruins. Doing the same stuff here. Turned Hall into Larsson. Turned Eberle into Strome. And did nothing to replace that offense lost. Didn't bring back Hendricks which was a complete mis read of the room and a huge hit to our PK. Basically they said we have McDavid. It doesn't matter who he plays with it will work. Other then some lightning in a bottle with Maroon last year it hasn't panned out. Honestly even having to put him with McDavid isn't ideal. He shouldn't be the best option that's for sure.


" If you have anything good to say, say it off!"

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706744 is a reply to message #706731 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 11:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:56

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 09:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 08:53

Goose wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 00:17

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 January 2018 21:46


- the first shot fired here, and it's definitely at the players, who haven't lived up to the expectations the team had of them.

Quote:

Why has Oscar Klefbom’s game descended so far? What happened to sophomores Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning? Why have Pat Maroon and Zack Kassian not been the players they were last season? What on earth happened to Mark Letestu's usually dependable game? Why does Leon Draisaitl’s game come and go like the wind?


- That's Spector helping to lay blame at players' feet, naming names where the GM did not.



Spector represents the laziest of the lazy MSM.

Caggiula, Benning, Maroon, and Kassian are all scoring at basically the exact same rate they did last year. Benning has had his struggles, but he's a 2nd year defenceman coming off of a concussion. Chia not realizing there was risk there is entirely his own fault. Leon has been fine, not worth $8.5MM, but that's also on Chia. Letestu found lightning in a bottle last year on the PP - he was 11th in PP goals in the NHL!! I'm not sure what to say if Chia was expecting him to repeat that. He had 18 EV pts last year. He's on pace for 13 this year. Not great, but not a huge drop off.

He mentions the Eberle trade as a "sore spot for fans", as if he doesn't really think it was a bad deal (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't given his comments about Eberle being mentally weak), and then immediately shifts the blame saying that the "downgrade in wingers has been exacerbated by all the regulars having poor seasons". Except they haven't. Lucic's numbers are about the same, RNH already has 15 goals and 30 points, he only scored 18/43 last year.

Klefbom has had a tough year for sure, but I would say Chia's decision to not replace Sekera at all has had a way bigger impact.

This isn't about the players not playing up to expectations, not by a long shot.


So you think that all the Oilers players, forget having a better year, have been just as good as last year. REALLY? I am not coming here to pass the buck. There is blame to be put on the coaches as the special teams are physically losing them games especially at home and whatever adjustments or systems or whatever else the coaches are doing just isn't working. There is definitely blame to put on the GM as he made some bets on some guys and very few aren't working. But how anyone can not also put blame on the players and say they are not playing up to expectations is baffling to me.

Other than McDavid and Nuge, who on the Oilers team has even had an OK year? Nurse has taken a step. But who else?

Leon hasn't been terrible because points wise 33 pts in 39 games is a 70 pt season. But he's got 1 PP goal and 4 PP pts. He had 10 goals, 27 pts on the PP. So I guess 5 on 5 he's doing awesome scoring but what the hell happened on the PP?

Klefbom had 12 goals, 38 pts last year. He has 3 goals, 10 pts in 39 games this year. That's a 21 pt pace. How do you as a team project Klefbom scoring HALF the points he did last year? Maybe you assume he will score the same or ever so slightly less but HALF as much? That's massive. That doesn't even count how brutal at times defensively he has been for most of the year.

Benning at times last year looked like a guy who in short order will have a second pairing spot locked up. When Russell was signed, many people were pissed with the argument being "When Benning passes him on the depth chart...." Is Benning passing anyone other than Gryba who's a 6-7 dman? NO. As a team being that it's his second year, do you expect him to have some ups and downs? Absolutely. Do you expect him to not even look like an NHLer in probably HALF the games he's played? Not a chance. He's been scratched 4 times and on many a night he's been the Oilers worst dman by a mile.

Maroon. You say he is basically scoring at the same rate. HUH? He had 27 goals last year. He has 9 in 41. That's an 18 goal pace. As a team maybe you don't expect him to score 27 again but I don't think you expect him to be less than 20 and off McDavid's line because he's not good enough. Especially in a contract year. He hasn't been close to the say player with all the other things he usually does.

Caggulia had 7 goals, 18 pts in 61 games last year. As a team, do you seriously expect him to put up the same numbers again? Those are 4th liner numbers. I would expect him to at least slightly improve on those numbers. I don't see him as a 4th liner, do you?

Kassian hasn't been close to as good. He had what 4 goals called back last year. I thought he was a lock for over 10.

Slep I thought would be a lock to be in the line up every night. He doesn't even look like a full time NHLer.

Letestu has been brutal defensively. As a team you don't expect him to continue to score like he did last year but defensively, he's fallen off substantially.

Talbot was what 4th in vezina votes last year? He has a .902 save percentage and a 3.19 GA this year. Do you expect your pushing for a vezina nomination goalie to be putting up numbers you wouldn't even want to get from a back up? Are his numbers all his fault? No but he's been no where near as good this year.

There is what, 8 players I listed off the top of my head who aren't even having mediocre seasons. Leon is about the only one he's doing "OK" but I sure wouldn't saying he's having a good year. Where would the Oilers be if even half the guys I listed above for having average years? Hell if Talbot by himself was having just an average NHL starter year, they'd be a bubble playoff team.

So again, I am not giving a pass to McLellan, the rest of the coaches or the GM but there are WAY too many guys flat out playing like crap on many nights. The PK is a perfect example. On the road, the PK is I believe in the mid 80's. At home, it's barely 50%. It's not like they deploy different players on the road and a different system. It's the same guys, same system. If the players are blameless, then how can the PK as an example be that much different at home than away? If it's all the coaches and GM, then the PK should be just as crap on the road but it isn't.

People can complain about the Eberle trade and it being a downgrade. I won't argue with that. Strome hasn't been good enough but at the same time, I have a hard time ripping him when he's been on the 3rd line for the entire year. Out of camp, he didn't look too bad on McDavid's wing, scored a few goals, why the hell the coaches refused to try him with McDavid from the start is baffling to me. I had been calling for the Oilers to play Leon and McDavid on different lines in the summer and it took the coaches what 20 some games to break them up which is stupid. But if Eberle was here, Eberle wouldn't help them on the PK. Their PK is physically losing them games especially at home. Eberle wouldn't help them with the goaltending. The goaltending has lost them games all year long. Their defense and how bad Klefbom and Benning were, especially the first 20 games were losing them games. So while I am not excusing the trade, I don't see how the Oilers would have been much better because the 3 things that have been the major problem, PK, goaltending and the defense, Eberle doesn't help you with.



As PO'd as I am at almost everything to do with this org right now, if I step back, I think the 2 major issues we had this year were:

1) Goaltending. This is partially Chia's fault for not having a real backup, but Talbot was just awful for the first maybe even 2 months of the year. No team can build any confidence if they feel like every mistake they make will end up in their net. Add on top of that a coach that obsesses about every mistake and has his BFF sending you custom videos of every one of them, and you probably can get pretty mind-f'd. This team started off hot this year, had some bad luck not scoring, but coupled with the brutal luck from their own goalies and a coach harping on mistakes, they slowly turned to playing scared, and that is a recipe for disaster.

2) Special teams. This is at this point 80% a coaching issue IMO. This coaching staff is incapable of making the best use of what they have on the PP. And their stubbornness coaching our overly aggressive PK is getting ridiculous. Maybe the PK is better on the road, but i think some of that is just dumb luck. We have still been allowing glorious chances on the road and teams have just been missing the wide open nets. Overall, it's still a historically bad PK, and just at home, it's by far the worst ever seen in the NHL.

Again, how can you play aggressive if you think every penalty you take will end up with a GA? Leads to more playing scared. Guys still take dumb penalties, but it's usually out of frustration, knowing that another loss is coming. In general though, most of our players play like they are neutered unless we are playing a "rival" (if you can call them that, mainly Calgary, Anaheim and the Sharks). And the PP, just whatever at this point, keep trying to set Letestu up boys, I'm sure it'll work one day again.


So, IMO, those 2 things have cratered this season the most. Can add on top how Klef may be playing injured (rumour that he was injured last playoffs? Did the org convince him to not get a surgery because Sek was out already?). Lack of wing depth obviously is a problem. Larsson seemed to get his back messed up at some point, but season was already pretty much over by then. General lack of D depth an issue too of course with Sek out, especially if we knew Klef was gonna be constantly rehabbing an injury.

There is not much left to really pay attention to, this team has mailed it in. They all know the season is over. Eventually I'm sure they will start playing loose and for some pride again, and McLellan will get credit for turning things around, but we are in danger of this season repeating if we don't at least find some help for this coaching staff and get a real backup goalie IMO. And if we want to ensure we are more than a bubble team, we need to find a way to get another puck moving D in the top 4, and at least 1 more fast winger that can put a puck in the net. Dahlin can probably take care of one of those :) Chia needs to make a move for the other. And of course I am ignoring cap hell, but whatever, Chia or the next GM need to figure it out.




I agree with you a bit on the goaltending but not totally. On one hand they had Brossoit who's AHL numbers were pretty good, the organization had invested a ton of time developing him and at some point you have to give the guy the chance to prove himself. So how do you prove he can do the job if you bring in someone else. In my opinion, Brossoit not being able to be the back up is 100% on him. He turns 25 in March, at his age, he should be a cabable NHL back up if he has any chance of ever being a starter. It's all mental with him. But in hindsight, they should have had someone else. But where I disagree is I am not so sure how much of a difference having a capable back up would that have made. The Oilers schedule was pretty good in the amount of days between games for the first month and a half. They didn't have a single back to back until the middle of November. Every game had at least a couple of days between, some had more time between. So Talbot got plenty of rest. So I wonder how much any back up would have actually played? Talbot was way below his usual the first 6 weeks at least. Maybe a better back up gets in one or 2 more games but Talbot is their guy, he is coming off a season where he was 4th in Vezina votes last year. I just don't see how even when he was struggling you yank him and sit him for a stretch. I am not saying it's right but I just don't see a scenario where he is playing a ton less regardless of who the back up was.

I look at the Flames last year and this year. The Flames were a decent team last year but got crap goaltending for the first couple of months. THe goaltending got hot and the squeaked into the playoffs. This year, the Flames are again a decent team but they have gotten steady goaltending from Smith the whole season. The Oilers won 4 games in a row prior to Christmas where they played well but also got pretty good goaltending. Other than that, I can't remember a time when the Oilers have had really good goaltending for a big chunk of time.


I didn't think LB was ready before the season started, so from my perspective, we were setting ourselves up to have 2 bad goalies if Talbot struggled. A decent backup gives you some insulation if your starter is struggling, and maybe even a little competition. With LB though, you are scared to play the backup even when your starter is in the tank, and then when you do finally give up and play the backup, you just get another lousy performance and you have to throw your struggling starter back in ASAP. Basically, you have 1 point of failure, and that certainly happened this year.

I'm not sure if it's LB's fault for not being a starter at 25. Does every goalie have to be a starter at 25? AHL is full of guys older that can't make the NHL, and LB is not joining the flock. It's up to NHL management to know if a guy is ready or not, and they screwed up with LB and just kept on hoping.

I agree with you that LB wasn't ready but how do you know that unless you give him the job? There is a jump in skill from the AHL to the NHL and practice only tells you so much. So at some point you have to see if he can make the jump and the only thing you do that is by playing. I also agree with you that it's not LB's fault that he isn't a NHL starter at 25 but at 25, if he is going to have a legit chance, he should be a back up by now. He was drafted in 2011. So this June it will be 7 years since he was drafted and he hasn't established himself as a full time NHLer. From everything I have heard about him, he's got the size, technical ability and skill, it's all mental and lacking focus. I believe a goalie coach and help you technically but I don't know how much they can improve a persons focus. A lot of that would be on the player.

At the start of the season, I didn't think back up goaltender was at the top of the list. There are a lot of teams who's back up are home grown guys just like LB who started in the minors for a few years then made the jump. So I thought LB given how he was been the minor league starter for several years, he did the job pretty well so it made sense to me to give him the job.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706746 is a reply to message #706742 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 3741
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Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

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Babaganoosh wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 15:28

This team is just a train wreck. Look what PC did to the Bruins. Doing the same stuff here. Turned Hall into Larsson. Turned Eberle into Strome. And did nothing to replace that offense lost. Didn't bring back Hendricks which was a complete mis read of the room and a huge hit to our PK.


Don't forget buying out Pouliot. He was (is) a very good PKer. Took dumb penalties time to time, and certainly not worth his salary, but he absolutely was and is an NHLer. Paying him to not play for 4 years was a dumb move.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706748 is a reply to message #706744 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 12:32

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 11:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 10:56

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 09:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 08:53

Goose wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 00:17

Adam wrote on Sun, 07 January 2018 21:46


- the first shot fired here, and it's definitely at the players, who haven't lived up to the expectations the team had of them.

Quote:

Why has Oscar Klefbom’s game descended so far? What happened to sophomores Drake Caggiula and Matt Benning? Why have Pat Maroon and Zack Kassian not been the players they were last season? What on earth happened to Mark Letestu's usually dependable game? Why does Leon Draisaitl’s game come and go like the wind?


- That's Spector helping to lay blame at players' feet, naming names where the GM did not.



Spector represents the laziest of the lazy MSM.

Caggiula, Benning, Maroon, and Kassian are all scoring at basically the exact same rate they did last year. Benning has had his struggles, but he's a 2nd year defenceman coming off of a concussion. Chia not realizing there was risk there is entirely his own fault. Leon has been fine, not worth $8.5MM, but that's also on Chia. Letestu found lightning in a bottle last year on the PP - he was 11th in PP goals in the NHL!! I'm not sure what to say if Chia was expecting him to repeat that. He had 18 EV pts last year. He's on pace for 13 this year. Not great, but not a huge drop off.

He mentions the Eberle trade as a "sore spot for fans", as if he doesn't really think it was a bad deal (and I'm pretty sure he doesn't given his comments about Eberle being mentally weak), and then immediately shifts the blame saying that the "downgrade in wingers has been exacerbated by all the regulars having poor seasons". Except they haven't. Lucic's numbers are about the same, RNH already has 15 goals and 30 points, he only scored 18/43 last year.

Klefbom has had a tough year for sure, but I would say Chia's decision to not replace Sekera at all has had a way bigger impact.

This isn't about the players not playing up to expectations, not by a long shot.


So you think that all the Oilers players, forget having a better year, have been just as good as last year. REALLY? I am not coming here to pass the buck. There is blame to be put on the coaches as the special teams are physically losing them games especially at home and whatever adjustments or systems or whatever else the coaches are doing just isn't working. There is definitely blame to put on the GM as he made some bets on some guys and very few aren't working. But how anyone can not also put blame on the players and say they are not playing up to expectations is baffling to me.

Other than McDavid and Nuge, who on the Oilers team has even had an OK year? Nurse has taken a step. But who else?

Leon hasn't been terrible because points wise 33 pts in 39 games is a 70 pt season. But he's got 1 PP goal and 4 PP pts. He had 10 goals, 27 pts on the PP. So I guess 5 on 5 he's doing awesome scoring but what the hell happened on the PP?

Klefbom had 12 goals, 38 pts last year. He has 3 goals, 10 pts in 39 games this year. That's a 21 pt pace. How do you as a team project Klefbom scoring HALF the points he did last year? Maybe you assume he will score the same or ever so slightly less but HALF as much? That's massive. That doesn't even count how brutal at times defensively he has been for most of the year.

Benning at times last year looked like a guy who in short order will have a second pairing spot locked up. When Russell was signed, many people were pissed with the argument being "When Benning passes him on the depth chart...." Is Benning passing anyone other than Gryba who's a 6-7 dman? NO. As a team being that it's his second year, do you expect him to have some ups and downs? Absolutely. Do you expect him to not even look like an NHLer in probably HALF the games he's played? Not a chance. He's been scratched 4 times and on many a night he's been the Oilers worst dman by a mile.

Maroon. You say he is basically scoring at the same rate. HUH? He had 27 goals last year. He has 9 in 41. That's an 18 goal pace. As a team maybe you don't expect him to score 27 again but I don't think you expect him to be less than 20 and off McDavid's line because he's not good enough. Especially in a contract year. He hasn't been close to the say player with all the other things he usually does.

Caggulia had 7 goals, 18 pts in 61 games last year. As a team, do you seriously expect him to put up the same numbers again? Those are 4th liner numbers. I would expect him to at least slightly improve on those numbers. I don't see him as a 4th liner, do you?

Kassian hasn't been close to as good. He had what 4 goals called back last year. I thought he was a lock for over 10.

Slep I thought would be a lock to be in the line up every night. He doesn't even look like a full time NHLer.

Letestu has been brutal defensively. As a team you don't expect him to continue to score like he did last year but defensively, he's fallen off substantially.

Talbot was what 4th in vezina votes last year? He has a .902 save percentage and a 3.19 GA this year. Do you expect your pushing for a vezina nomination goalie to be putting up numbers you wouldn't even want to get from a back up? Are his numbers all his fault? No but he's been no where near as good this year.

There is what, 8 players I listed off the top of my head who aren't even having mediocre seasons. Leon is about the only one he's doing "OK" but I sure wouldn't saying he's having a good year. Where would the Oilers be if even half the guys I listed above for having average years? Hell if Talbot by himself was having just an average NHL starter year, they'd be a bubble playoff team.

So again, I am not giving a pass to McLellan, the rest of the coaches or the GM but there are WAY too many guys flat out playing like crap on many nights. The PK is a perfect example. On the road, the PK is I believe in the mid 80's. At home, it's barely 50%. It's not like they deploy different players on the road and a different system. It's the same guys, same system. If the players are blameless, then how can the PK as an example be that much different at home than away? If it's all the coaches and GM, then the PK should be just as crap on the road but it isn't.

People can complain about the Eberle trade and it being a downgrade. I won't argue with that. Strome hasn't been good enough but at the same time, I have a hard time ripping him when he's been on the 3rd line for the entire year. Out of camp, he didn't look too bad on McDavid's wing, scored a few goals, why the hell the coaches refused to try him with McDavid from the start is baffling to me. I had been calling for the Oilers to play Leon and McDavid on different lines in the summer and it took the coaches what 20 some games to break them up which is stupid. But if Eberle was here, Eberle wouldn't help them on the PK. Their PK is physically losing them games especially at home. Eberle wouldn't help them with the goaltending. The goaltending has lost them games all year long. Their defense and how bad Klefbom and Benning were, especially the first 20 games were losing them games. So while I am not excusing the trade, I don't see how the Oilers would have been much better because the 3 things that have been the major problem, PK, goaltending and the defense, Eberle doesn't help you with.



As PO'd as I am at almost everything to do with this org right now, if I step back, I think the 2 major issues we had this year were:

1) Goaltending. This is partially Chia's fault for not having a real backup, but Talbot was just awful for the first maybe even 2 months of the year. No team can build any confidence if they feel like every mistake they make will end up in their net. Add on top of that a coach that obsesses about every mistake and has his BFF sending you custom videos of every one of them, and you probably can get pretty mind-f'd. This team started off hot this year, had some bad luck not scoring, but coupled with the brutal luck from their own goalies and a coach harping on mistakes, they slowly turned to playing scared, and that is a recipe for disaster.

2) Special teams. This is at this point 80% a coaching issue IMO. This coaching staff is incapable of making the best use of what they have on the PP. And their stubbornness coaching our overly aggressive PK is getting ridiculous. Maybe the PK is better on the road, but i think some of that is just dumb luck. We have still been allowing glorious chances on the road and teams have just been missing the wide open nets. Overall, it's still a historically bad PK, and just at home, it's by far the worst ever seen in the NHL.

Again, how can you play aggressive if you think every penalty you take will end up with a GA? Leads to more playing scared. Guys still take dumb penalties, but it's usually out of frustration, knowing that another loss is coming. In general though, most of our players play like they are neutered unless we are playing a "rival" (if you can call them that, mainly Calgary, Anaheim and the Sharks). And the PP, just whatever at this point, keep trying to set Letestu up boys, I'm sure it'll work one day again.


So, IMO, those 2 things have cratered this season the most. Can add on top how Klef may be playing injured (rumour that he was injured last playoffs? Did the org convince him to not get a surgery because Sek was out already?). Lack of wing depth obviously is a problem. Larsson seemed to get his back messed up at some point, but season was already pretty much over by then. General lack of D depth an issue too of course with Sek out, especially if we knew Klef was gonna be constantly rehabbing an injury.

There is not much left to really pay attention to, this team has mailed it in. They all know the season is over. Eventually I'm sure they will start playing loose and for some pride again, and McLellan will get credit for turning things around, but we are in danger of this season repeating if we don't at least find some help for this coaching staff and get a real backup goalie IMO. And if we want to ensure we are more than a bubble team, we need to find a way to get another puck moving D in the top 4, and at least 1 more fast winger that can put a puck in the net. Dahlin can probably take care of one of those :) Chia needs to make a move for the other. And of course I am ignoring cap hell, but whatever, Chia or the next GM need to figure it out.




I agree with you a bit on the goaltending but not totally. On one hand they had Brossoit who's AHL numbers were pretty good, the organization had invested a ton of time developing him and at some point you have to give the guy the chance to prove himself. So how do you prove he can do the job if you bring in someone else. In my opinion, Brossoit not being able to be the back up is 100% on him. He turns 25 in March, at his age, he should be a cabable NHL back up if he has any chance of ever being a starter. It's all mental with him. But in hindsight, they should have had someone else. But where I disagree is I am not so sure how much of a difference having a capable back up would that have made. The Oilers schedule was pretty good in the amount of days between games for the first month and a half. They didn't have a single back to back until the middle of November. Every game had at least a couple of days between, some had more time between. So Talbot got plenty of rest. So I wonder how much any back up would have actually played? Talbot was way below his usual the first 6 weeks at least. Maybe a better back up gets in one or 2 more games but Talbot is their guy, he is coming off a season where he was 4th in Vezina votes last year. I just don't see how even when he was struggling you yank him and sit him for a stretch. I am not saying it's right but I just don't see a scenario where he is playing a ton less regardless of who the back up was.

I look at the Flames last year and this year. The Flames were a decent team last year but got crap goaltending for the first couple of months. THe goaltending got hot and the squeaked into the playoffs. This year, the Flames are again a decent team but they have gotten steady goaltending from Smith the whole season. The Oilers won 4 games in a row prior to Christmas where they played well but also got pretty good goaltending. Other than that, I can't remember a time when the Oilers have had really good goaltending for a big chunk of time.


I didn't think LB was ready before the season started, so from my perspective, we were setting ourselves up to have 2 bad goalies if Talbot struggled. A decent backup gives you some insulation if your starter is struggling, and maybe even a little competition. With LB though, you are scared to play the backup even when your starter is in the tank, and then when you do finally give up and play the backup, you just get another lousy performance and you have to throw your struggling starter back in ASAP. Basically, you have 1 point of failure, and that certainly happened this year.

I'm not sure if it's LB's fault for not being a starter at 25. Does every goalie have to be a starter at 25? AHL is full of guys older that can't make the NHL, and LB is not joining the flock. It's up to NHL management to know if a guy is ready or not, and they screwed up with LB and just kept on hoping.

I agree with you that LB wasn't ready but how do you know that unless you give him the job? There is a jump in skill from the AHL to the NHL and practice only tells you so much. So at some point you have to see if he can make the jump and the only thing you do that is by playing. I also agree with you that it's not LB's fault that he isn't a NHL starter at 25 but at 25, if he is going to have a legit chance, he should be a back up by now. He was drafted in 2011. So this June it will be 7 years since he was drafted and he hasn't established himself as a full time NHLer. From everything I have heard about him, he's got the size, technical ability and skill, it's all mental and lacking focus. I believe a goalie coach and help you technically but I don't know how much they can improve a persons focus. A lot of that would be on the player.

At the start of the season, I didn't think back up goaltender was at the top of the list. There are a lot of teams who's back up are home grown guys just like LB who started in the minors for a few years then made the jump. So I thought LB given how he was been the minor league starter for several years, he did the job pretty well so it made sense to me to give him the job.


I really do think his body of work leading up to this season was enough to go off to know he wasn't ready, and that keeping him as the backup was a huge gamble. I thought he took a step back last year in the AHL too. Was outperformed by Gustavsson and Ellis.

McLellan clearly did not trust him last year, and he clearly did not trust him earlier this season, and turns out it was with good reason. Even if he puts up a good statistical night, you can see the panic in his game, and how he loses focus and gets super slow to react to things.

In the end, I just figured Chia would not want questionable backup goaltending for a 3rd year in a row. It finally burned him when it really mattered this time.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706751 is a reply to message #706744 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 12:32


I agree with you that LB wasn't ready but how do you know that unless you give him the job? There is a jump in skill from the AHL to the NHL and practice only tells you so much. So at some point you have to see if he can make the jump and the only thing you do that is by playing. I also agree with you that it's not LB's fault that he isn't a NHL starter at 25 but at 25, if he is going to have a legit chance, he should be a back up by now. He was drafted in 2011. So this June it will be 7 years since he was drafted and he hasn't established himself as a full time NHLer. From everything I have heard about him, he's got the size, technical ability and skill, it's all mental and lacking focus. I believe a goalie coach and help you technically but I don't know how much they can improve a persons focus. A lot of that would be on the player.

At the start of the season, I didn't think back up goaltender was at the top of the list. There are a lot of teams who's back up are home grown guys just like LB who started in the minors for a few years then made the jump. So I thought LB given how he was been the minor league starter for several years, he did the job pretty well so it made sense to me to give him the job.


You know LB isn't ready because, if you're the Oilers brass, you have seen almost his entire pro career develop before your eyes. His AHL numbers have never been spectacular, and you've seen him play in the NHL in several games already. There was nothing in his resume that made it seem like he was going to be a good NHL goaltender.

You also know that as much as Talbot was stellar last year, he could struggle for a time (as he did two years ago, and as he did again this year) or he could get hurt (as he ultimately would this year which may have impacted his early play). A back-up isn't just someone to spell off the starting netminder, it's an insurance policy against anything happening to the starter. The Oilers decided not to invest in insurance, betting on a goalie who'd proven exactly nothing in his pro career and was most likely NOT going to be able to handle the load if he was handed the ball.

Talbot couldn't be spelled off when he was initially hurt, because the coaches had no faith in the backup. When Talbot was unable to play, then Brossoit IS handed the ball - he went 3-7-1 in 11 starts this year. He's sporting a sparkling .886 save percentage. Now, he's playing behind a team that leaks quality chances (something that impacts Talbot's numbers this year as well), but was there anyone this summer who thought it wouldn't be a disaster if Talbot missed 10 straight games? Chiarelli apparently, but even McLellan seemed to know better (given his hesitation to start Brossoit other than when absolutely necessary).

No one is completely excusing the players for the travesty that is this season, but the fact is, the management and coaching has set them up for failure by counting on everything to turn up aces and making no contingency plans whatsoever.

This was the last cheap year for the Oilers. From now on, McDavid makes a mint. And the team threw it away and Chiarelli's even handcuffed them from making significant adjustments next year (unless he trades Draisaitl, but does anyone trust him not to lose any trade like that?)



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706759 is a reply to message #706751 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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The crazy thing about LB this season is he beat my expectations when he was the starter for two weeks.


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706776 is a reply to message #706759 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21  is currently offline Gator21
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More like the Winds of Shat....shat winds Ran, shat winds. It honestly amazes that Chiarelli is getting paid a six figure salary and can't identify obvious roster issues that 80% of this board could do better.

Worst part is that we didn't even take a run at Babcock that spring because we were all in on McLellan. Guaranteed Babs would get more out of this group than McLellan is currently.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706778 is a reply to message #706776 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Gator21 wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 22:27

More like the Winds of Shat....shat winds Ran, shat winds. It honestly amazes that Chiarelli is getting paid a six figure salary and can't identify obvious roster issues that 80% of this board could do better.

Worst part is that we didn't even take a run at Babcock that spring because we were all in on McLellan. Guaranteed Babs would get more out of this group than McLellan is currently.


It’s worse than you imagine. Chiarelli is well in to seven figures!



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706779 is a reply to message #706695 ]
Mon, 08 January 2018 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Again Chia today is claiming the Ebs deal HAD to be made to fend off an offersheet. Does he know how the cap works? You can be 10% over during the summer. And no team was gonna offersheet Drai more than 7.5M over 7 years. No one is giving up 4 1st round picks for a Drai in an age of 3 lottery rounds. Only a guy like McDavid would get that.

And in any case, he still made a deal as if he was over the cap and Bettman was holding a gun to his head saying he had to get under the cap within 15 minutes.

Although, to be fair, he also said he expected more from Strome. So, you can understand his frame of mind, that Strome was gonna be something he has never been. I mean fair in that he is not totally insane, he is just kinda clueless. I believe that is also called being a stable genius these days.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706780 is a reply to message #706714 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 08 January 2018 07:53


So you think that all the Oilers players, forget having a better year, have been just as good as last year. REALLY?

Other than McDavid and Nuge, who on the Oilers team has even had an OK year? Nurse has taken a step. But who else?

Klefbom had 12 goals, 38 pts last year. He has 3 goals, 10 pts in 39 games this year. That's a 21 pt pace. How do you as a team project Klefbom scoring HALF the points he did last year? Maybe you assume he will score the same or ever so slightly less but HALF as much? That's massive. That doesn't even count how brutal at times defensively he has been for most of the year.

Benning at times last year looked like a guy who in short order will have a second pairing spot locked up.

Maroon. You say he is basically scoring at the same rate. HUH? He had 27 goals last year. He has 9 in 41. That's an 18 goal pace. As a team maybe you don't expect him to score 27 again but I don't think you expect him to be less than 20 and off McDavid's line because he's not good enough. Especially in a contract year. He hasn't been close to the say player with all the other things he usually does.

Caggulia had 7 goals, 18 pts in 61 games last year. As a team, do you seriously expect him to put up the same numbers again? Those are 4th liner numbers. I would expect him to at least slightly improve on those numbers. I don't see him as a 4th liner, do you?

Kassian hasn't been close to as good. He had what 4 goals called back last year. I thought he was a lock for over 10.

Slep I thought would be a lock to be in the line up every night. He doesn't even look like a full time NHLer.

Talbot was what 4th in vezina votes last year? He has a .902 save percentage and a 3.19 GA this year. Do you expect your pushing for a vezina nomination goalie to be putting up numbers you wouldn't even want to get from a back up? Are his numbers all his fault? No but he's been no where near as good this year.



I clipped your post to save space, but kept in the parts I wanted to respond to.

Here are the points per game for most of the Oilers regulars for 16/17 and then 17/18:

McDavid - 1.22 / 1.09
Drai - 0.94 / 0.85
RNH - 0.52 / 0.70
Lucic - 0.61 / 0.63
Maroon - 0.52 / 0.51
Strome - 0.43 / 0.40
Letestu - 0.45 / 0.37
Khaira - 0.10 / 0.43
Kassian - 0.30 / 0.28
Puljujarvi - 0.29 / 0.42
Caggiula - 0.30 / 0.29
Slepyshev - 0.24 / 0.17

Russel - 0.19 / 0.37
Nurse - 0.25 / 0.33
Klefbom - 0.46 / 0.26
Benning - 0.24 / 0.23
Larsson - 0.24 / 0.11


I think this is about what we should expect. Some guys are up, some are down.

Maroon's goals are down (but his points are right in line with last year), but RNH is on pace to score 10 more goals than last year which more than makes up for it.

Lucic performing right where he was last year.

I agree that Letestu has on balance been worse, but Khaira has actually played quite well which makes Letestu's struggles less impactful.

Slep is down, but Puljujarvi is up.

Strome, Caggiula, Kassian all exactly where they were last year. If you're expecting guys that have only ever performed at a 4th line level (with the exception of one season of Kassian where he played a lot with the Sedins), to suddenly start performing above that level, then I would respectfully suggest that the issue is with your expectations, not the player's performance.

As fans, we can absolutely hope that everybody improves or stays the same, but it's just not realistic. And if you're the GM and paid 7-figures to build a winning team, you don't have the luxury of banking on those types of bets.

On defence, I think I was clear that Klef has struggled. Injured? Maybe. I think I've been pretty consistent that I felt the Oilers needed to go out and add another defenceman. So no, I'm not super surprised the group has struggled. Benning played most of the year last year with the Oilers most consistent defenceman. He's a 2nd year pro, nevermind NHLer, so no I'm not shocked he hasn't looked as good.

Nurse has, as you mentioned taken a step forward. Russell is scoring at double the rate he did last year - I know I was as shocked as you are icon_wink

So Nurse up, Benning down. Klef down, Russell up. Now, Klefbom plays a more significant role than Russell does, so his struggles hurt the team more. Not to mention that the other parts of Russell's game still leave a lot to be desired. But I bet if you had added another good top 4 defenceman into that group, the picture would be much different.

Here is, of course, what is missing from the list above:

Eberle - 0.62
Sekera - 0.44
Throw in Pitlick at 0.35 (and 8 even strength goals), and here we are.

As for Talbot, 100% agree that a .902 save % is not where I thought he would be. If you break down his numbers this year:

At even strength - .916 (24th out of 31 goalies that have played more than 20 games, )
On the PK - .807 (31st out of 31)

Last year:
EV - .927 (11th out of 32 goalies that played more than 40 games)
PK - .877 (14th out of 32)

So he's not exactly being helped by the Oilers historically bad PP. But yes, I totally agree that Talbot is part of the problem right now.

I don't put the Oilers struggles as much on the players as I do on the GM and coaches because I don't think any of these things are surprising with the exception of Talbot, but even with him I think there are mitigating factors (the PK), and as others have discussed Chia gave him no cover.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 January 2018 00:17]


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 pace: 262 GF / 219 GA (+43) after 21 games

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706781 is a reply to message #706779 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 00:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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I don't think he needs to disclose that information about an offer sheet either. Gives the media a reason to say that Draisaitl isn't loyal to the team...along with the coach saying that Leon skates for Leon...


Clean house or bust

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706786 is a reply to message #706781 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I wish Chia would just tell the truth on Eberle and why they traded him. Saying it was because of a threat of an offer sheet on Drai is insulting our intelligence. Based on capfriendly, the Oilers have just under 8.4 mill in cap space. I assume that is taking into account all of the potential bonuses that could be paid out. https://www.capfriendly.com/ . The Oilers have the 4th lowest payroll in the league this year. So a team could have offered Leon McDavid money and the Oilers would STILL have money left over. So saying it's because it was to protect against an offer sheet is stupid.

Here is what I think the reason is as to why they traded Eberle.
- Eberle had a rep before McLellan and Chia came in. The rep was probably that he is a good but streaky scorer who often lacked compete, was inconsistent and he didn't give a damn about defense. I don't think what I said is a news flash to any Oiler fan.
- Before those 2 came to the team, what I said above was what I believe they thought Eberle was but that is based on what they have been told by scouts and what they saw briefly when they played against him. So coming to the team, before you completely pass judgement, you want to see first hand if it was true. So they watched him up close for 2 seasons.
- IN the first season with the team, they saw first hand that everything was true BUT Eberle missed some time due to injury so maybe that played a factor and he had a hot finish, so you give him another season. Plus the team was down near the bottom again. Last season, the team takes off with Eberle being healthy but struggling. The Oilers are winning with Eberle chipping but not a ton. You eventually take him off McDavid's line, then you take him off your PP and all of a sudden the PP takes off like a rocket. The team is rolling even with Eberle playing lousy and not scoring a lot and all his warts look even worse. He has a bit of a late hot streak to somewhat make his numbers look OK. You go into the playoffs, win the first round with Eberle scoring nothing. You go up against the Ducks where Eberle was brutal. Not only did he not score a single goal or barely a point, his defensive warts cost you games.
- So before taking the team over, I think both the GM and coach, rightly or wrongly, had it in their minds that Eberle was not going to be an Oiler for very much longer. It was just a question of when. I think last season and the playoffs solidified in their minds that Eberle was not going to be part of the future and with the Oilers getting 103 pts, winning a playoff round and getting screwed out of going to the conference finals all with Eberle contributing very little, it only hammered the point home for them that they could do without Eberle just fine. Rightly or wrongly, I think that is how they felt. Cap space wise, they could keep him for 1 more season but they have already decided he needed to go. By waiting for a season you run the risk of Eberle playing worse and further diminishing the asset AND you probably get less for Eberle because if you wait one more season, then you HAVE to get rid of Eberle for cap reasons because both McDavid and Leon's contract will be on the books. If they traded him when they did, they get a player that can step in your line up and fill a role somewhere. If they wait for one more season, they get a pick or two, maybe a prospect but futures and nothing that will potentially help the team anytime soon. So a true sell off package. So they said "What are we waiting for, let's get what we can now."

So that is what I think the reason for trading Eberle was and as the season has gone on and the way Strome has panned out, I do not for a second think it is necessarily the right decision. BUT if that is the true reason, then tell us instead of feeding us a BS answer. Fans may not like that the reason they traded him was because they wanted him gone because they felt he wasn't an important part of the team but at least its the truth.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706787 is a reply to message #706695 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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This tweet by Rishaug this morning is amazing to me.

Quote:

@TSNRyanRishaug: The funny thing about all this Chiarelli backing McLellan stuff is, nobody as far as I know was seriously calling for him to be fired. None of the main beat reporters or analysts, certainly not me.. I don’t think he was in real jeopardy at this point.


He actually believes that he's basically the assistant GM of the team and that Chiarelli is forming opinions about what he should do with the team based on Rishaug's takes. https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/950476762428858368



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 pace: 262 GF / 219 GA (+43) after 21 games

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706789 is a reply to message #706787 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Goose wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 09:12

This tweet by Rishaug this morning is amazing to me.

Quote:

@TSNRyanRishaug: The funny thing about all this Chiarelli backing McLellan stuff is, nobody as far as I know was seriously calling for him to be fired. None of the main beat reporters or analysts, certainly not me.. I don’t think he was in real jeopardy at this point.


He actually believes that he's basically the assistant GM of the team and that Chiarelli is forming opinions about what he should do with the team based on Rishaug's takes. https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/950476762428858368

We know media has a cozy relationship with news makers. It shouldn't come as a surprise that he over values his opinion.

Edit to add: I'm listening to someone (Dreger?) on TSN 1260 right now argue that you can't make a coaching / management change because there are too many unknowns, but trading Eberle was fine because sometimes you just have to make a move and hope the unknowns work out. These aren't right holders, working for the team, they're just guys that are in the bag for their sources. It's shameful.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 January 2018 09:20]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706790 is a reply to message #706695 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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Chia with dumb trades galore:

Reinhart trade -DUMB
Hall trade - Should have got more
Eberle trade - DUMB (although I still contend he needed to be elsewhere)

Dumb moves:
Letting vet presence leave the room without replacing it (Hendricks)
Buyouts of serviceable players

Should Chia lose his job? I was in the camp to yes and while I think that's a possibility, it's not the right time. He just trade away Nuge or another important piece.

No to Howson, MacT or any Gretzky (I don't want to hate Wayne).

Then, put him into an advisory role (because of contract) and bring in a GM that is a smart up and comer, I like the idea of the assistant GM of Nashville.

I feel a bunch of this predicament is on the players, under playing as a group.



The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706792 is a reply to message #706789 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 08:17


We know media has a cozy relationship with news makers. It shouldn't come as a surprise that he over values his opinion.

Edit to add: I'm listening to someone (Dreger?) on TSN 1260 right now argue that you can't make a coaching / management change because there are too many unknowns, but trading Eberle was fine because sometimes you just have to make a move and hope the unknowns work out. These aren't right holders, working for the team, they're just guys that are in the bag for their sources. It's shameful.


I know it shouldn't surprise me at this point but it still does.

Rishaug believes Chiarrelli is sitting in his office thinking: you know, I have millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions of dollars if i really want it to spend on hiring professionals to analyze and digest every potential move I can make, but that Rishaug guy posts some really snappy 90 second video clips on the TSN website. Maybe i should just click over to see what he thinks instead.

Actually, now that I type that out that's probably how it actually works. We're forever screwed aren't we?



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 pace: 262 GF / 219 GA (+43) after 21 games

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706793 is a reply to message #706792 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Goose wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 09:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 08:17


We know media has a cozy relationship with news makers. It shouldn't come as a surprise that he over values his opinion.

Edit to add: I'm listening to someone (Dreger?) on TSN 1260 right now argue that you can't make a coaching / management change because there are too many unknowns, but trading Eberle was fine because sometimes you just have to make a move and hope the unknowns work out. These aren't right holders, working for the team, they're just guys that are in the bag for their sources. It's shameful.


I know it shouldn't surprise me at this point but it still does.

Rishaug believes Chiarrelli is sitting in his office thinking: you know, I have millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions of dollars if i really want it to spend on hiring professionals to analyze and digest every potential move I can make, but that Rishaug guy posts some really snappy 90 second video clips on the TSN website. Maybe i should just click over to see what he thinks instead.

Actually, now that I type that out that's probably how it actually works. We're forever screwed aren't we?

Yup! The owner just want to be friends with the staff. The staff just wants to be friends with the media. The media just wants their job to be easy. The players just... uh I have no idea what they want. The fans just want to be seen at the game.

And forever we circle 'round the drain.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706799 is a reply to message #706790 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Taking firings out of the equation for a minute. The season is basically lost because they are too far back and to make it, they have to win the huge majority of their games have have several teams blow up. Hard to see that all happening. But what I would like to see is to figure some things out that are killing this team. First and foremost is the PK. What I would like to see is someone else brought in as another set of eyes. Call him another assistant coach or consultant or whatever. The PK isn't working, it hasn't been working all year and extends into last season. Whatever system they are running either doesn't work or is too complicated for the players to execute. I lean towards too complicated because why they are so good on the road and so bad at home shows in my eyes that the system can work if executed, the players just struggle to execute it consistently. If the system didn't work, your PK should be bad at home and the road. Maybe luck plays a small part but not that much. So I would like to see someone brought in who is really good at the PK and can come up with a system that works and that the players can understand and execute consistently. For whatever reason the current coaches can't convey that message so maybe someone else can.

If they can find a system that works and that the players can consistently execute, then you can accurately assess your players to find out if they have enough guys good enough for the PK internally or if they need to bring people in. Roster changes happen after every season but you aren't going to completely turn over your roster. SO the Oilers need to figure out if they have the right guys now or if they need to bring in 1 guy or 2 or whatever.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706801 is a reply to message #706792 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Goose wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 09:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 08:17


We know media has a cozy relationship with news makers. It shouldn't come as a surprise that he over values his opinion.

Edit to add: I'm listening to someone (Dreger?) on TSN 1260 right now argue that you can't make a coaching / management change because there are too many unknowns, but trading Eberle was fine because sometimes you just have to make a move and hope the unknowns work out. These aren't right holders, working for the team, they're just guys that are in the bag for their sources. It's shameful.


I know it shouldn't surprise me at this point but it still does.

Rishaug believes Chiarrelli is sitting in his office thinking: you know, I have millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions of dollars if i really want it to spend on hiring professionals to analyze and digest every potential move I can make, but that Rishaug guy posts some really snappy 90 second video clips on the TSN website. Maybe i should just click over to see what he thinks instead.

Actually, now that I type that out that's probably how it actually works. We're forever screwed aren't we?


From the sound of it, Chia made all his off-season decisions based on a handful of playoff games he extrapolated out to a decade. So, going by some TSN clips it's that far off :)



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706809 is a reply to message #706799 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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The problem with the Oilers is in all seriousness I don't think personnel wise they are as bad as their record. If you look at their defense, is a top tier defense? NO but is it bad when everyone plays well and to their capabilities? NO I think it is a middle tier defense. They could use a little more offense but if Klefbom is playing up even close like he was last year, if Benning doesn't fall back as much as he did, it's good enough to make it in the playoffs. Forward wise, it's good enough to make it to the playoffs. Goaltending wise, they have what should be a top 10 goalie.

So rightly or wrongly, I think the plan was to stand pat and use the cap space to add at the deadline. I think most teams would like to add more at the deadline but most don't have the cap space to do it. I think the thinking was they would be good enough to either be in 8th or damn close. Then Sekera comes back to bolster the defense and they would also use all that cap space to add on more help. When I look at the roster, while not a championship team now, they have no business being there they are even before Sekera came back. IF Talbot gave the Oilers even average NHL goaltending early on, they are right on the cusp then you add on if the defense and more specifically Klefbom and Benning even gave them average NHL defense, they should be right on the cusp.




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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706810 is a reply to message #706809 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
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Registered: January 2009
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Ifs. You know IF your Aunt had balls she would be your uncle. Fact is PC had no clue where Eberles lost offense would come from. He had no idea where the PK help was when he dumped Pouliot and Hendricks. Two players who have what this team needs in spades in character. He had no backup for Talbot. He had no replacement for Sekera.

Our GM didn't plan to fail he to failed to plan. Unless expecting every player to perform at unprecidented levels, some how kill penalties with no penalty killers, and requiring Talbot to win a Vezina to be close. That is not a good plan. Something he should be fired for . Hell I was saying this exact stuff in July. How did these great hockey geniuses be so unprepared.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 January 2018 12:17]


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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706814 is a reply to message #706810 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:14

Ifs. You know IF your Aunt had balls she would be your uncle. Fact is PC had no clue where Eberles lost offense would come from. He had no idea where the PK help was when he dumped Pouliot and Hendricks. Two players who have what this team needs in spades in character. He had no backup for Talbot. He had no replacement for Sekera.

Our GM didn't plan to fail he to failed to plan. Unless expecting every player to perform at unprecidented levels, some how kill penalties with no penalty killers, and requiring Talbot to win a Vezina to be close. That is not a good plan. Something he should be fired for . Hell I was saying this exact stuff in July. How did these great hockey geniuses be so unprepared.


I am not excusing the GM but how about try some objectivity for a change.

If you are a GM are you expecting your almost vezina nominated goalie to give you well below NHL average goaltending? Maybe you don't expect him to be in the vezina conversation every year but he's 3.12 GA and .902 save percentage. That isn't even CLOSE to NHL average goaltending. Forget the back up, you aren't winning anything if your starter has numbers like that. If the Oilers are getting average NHL goaltending on a nightly basis from their starter, they are right there if not in the playoffs. They are 8 pts out of the wildcard, that's 4 wins. Their goaltending alone has lost them more than 4 games this whole season. So I would challenge you to point out what GM expects his high end starter to completely crap the bed and have back up plans in place to replace him during the season. Most teams expect their starter to play you 60+ games with most of them being high quality starts. If the starter has a bad season, they are screwed.

You can complain about not replacing Sekera. Sorry I don't buy that. With the emergence of Nurse, they would have Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Russell. While not great, that should be a decent enough top 4 to get you by until Sekera is ready to go. Klefbom is having a terrible season after having a good year. No GM is going to assume one of your best dmen is going to play as badly as he has. Not a chance in hell. Maybe he doesn't continue to trend up but you sure don't expect him to take 2 steps back like he as on many a night. Then you have Benning. Last season he looked like he was already a good 3rd pairing dman who at times could play in your top 4 and be OK. Now I think most expected him to have some bumps this season so maybe that means he is only in your 3rd pair for the whole year but no one expected him to take 2 steps back and for many games look like he isn't NHL ready. There are very few teams out there who have so much depth that they can afford to have one of their best dmen play like crap for most of the year as well as another guy who should be an NHL look like he can't play.

I am sounding like I am saying Chia should get no blame. That isn't the case. He has lots of blame as he has made some bad moves. But I don't care who is the GM here, no GM has a plan in place that fixes everything when your starter is bad for 3/4 of the season to date. No GM has plans in place to swap out your top pairing guy when he can't play any better than the 3rd pairing. If Doughty is playing like crap the whole year, are the Kings where they are? Not a chance in hell.



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 Re: Winds of Change [message #706815 is a reply to message #706814 ]
Tue, 09 January 2018 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:43

Babaganoosh wrote on Tue, 09 January 2018 12:14

Ifs. You know IF your Aunt had balls she would be your uncle. Fact is PC had no clue where Eberles lost offense would come from. He had no idea where the PK help was when he dumped Pouliot and Hendricks. Two players who have what this team needs in spades in character. He had no backup for Talbot. He had no replacement for Sekera.

Our GM didn't plan to fail he to failed to plan. Unless expecting every player to perform at unprecidented levels, some how kill penalties with no penalty killers, and requiring Talbot to win a Vezina to be close. That is not a good plan. Something he should be fired for . Hell I was saying this exact stuff in July. How did these great hockey geniuses be so unprepared.


I am not excusing the GM but how about try some objectivity for a change.

If you are a GM are you expecting your almost vezina nominated goalie to give you well below NHL average goaltending? Maybe you don't expect him to be in the vezina conversation every year but he's 3.12 GA and .902 save percentage. That isn't even CLOSE to NHL average goaltending. Forget the back up, you aren't winning anything if your starter has numbers like that. If the Oilers are getting average NHL goaltending on a nightly basis from their starter, they are right there if not in the playoffs. They are 8 pts out of the wildcard, that's 4 wins. Their goaltending alone has lost them more than 4 games this whole season. So I would challenge you to point out what GM expects his high end starter to completely crap the bed and have back up plans in place to replace him during the season. Most teams expect their starter to play you 60+ games with most of them being high quality starts. If the starter has a bad season, they are screwed.

You can complain about not replacing Sekera. Sorry I don't buy that. With the emergence of Nurse, they would have Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Russell. While not great, that should be a decent enough top 4 to get you by until Sekera is ready to go. Klefbom is having a terrible season after having a good year. No GM is going to assume one of your best dmen is going to play as badly as he has. Not a chance in hell. Maybe he doesn't continue to trend up but you sure don't expect him to take 2 steps back like he as on many a night. Then you have Benning. Last season he looked like he was already a good 3rd pairing dman who at times could play in your top 4 and be OK. Now I think most expected him to have some bumps this season so maybe that means he is only in your 3rd pair for the whole year but no one expected him to take 2 steps back and for many games look like he isn't NHL ready. There are very few teams out there who have so much depth that they can afford to have one of their best dmen play like crap for most of the year as well as another guy who should be an NHL look like he can't play.

I am sounding like I am saying Chia should get no blame. That isn't the case. He has lots of blame as he has made some bad moves. But I don't care who is the GM here, no GM has a plan in place that fixes everything when your starter is bad for 3/4 of the season to date. No GM has plans in place to swap out your top pairing guy when he can't play any better than the 3rd pairing. If Doughty is playing like crap the whole year, are the Kings where they are? Not a chance in hell.

If you're a competent GM you'd have a back up plan just in case the almost Vezina goaltender took a step back. In Edmonton we got to watch a incompetent GM start his third consecutive season without a serviceable back up.

You may say the Oilers had enough on D to soldier forward without Sekera however many said they weren't good enough. If you look at the season objectively... they weren't good enough. The people who said another defenseman was need were objectively correct.

The truth is Chiarelli failed to get McLellan a good enough team and McLellan has failed to get the performance that not-good-enough team is capable of.



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