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 Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829996 is a reply to message #829995 ]
Wed, 21 February 2024 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10088
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 11:35

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 11:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 08:43

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 22:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:46

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.


Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

I didn't call him tiny but 180 lbs is hardly considered a big guy.

When one of the 200lbs Vegas dmen hit an 180lbs body, the 180 lbs guy will feel it more than the 200 lb guy. Most guys in the NHL at this point in the season isn't 100% healthy but I don't think trading for a guy who you already know is quite banged up, to the point he has to miss a month of games when his team is trying to squeak into the playoffs is a good idea.

You can disagree if you want, but trading for a guy that's hurt is a bigger risk than other players. If you trade for Guentzel, you are probably spending the majority of your tradeable assets and using up most of, if not all of the cap space you have, even if you get them to retain 50% on a guy who it's probably more likely he gets hurt again vs other players. I would be targeting other players.

My target would be Tarasenko. He's on a worse team. The GM probably isn't feeling as much pressure to get a haul as the Pens GM is with Crosby who apparently is very close with Guentzel. Taraenko makes 1 mill less so the cap hit is less and every dollar counts. He has a cup so you get that experience. If you like him, you probably have a better chance at resigning him than Guentzel who's American vs Tarasenko already signed with a Canadian team. He's played in the West pretty much his whole career so he knows how the hockey in the playoffs is. Plus he's 2 inches taller and 45 lbs heavier which in the West, which in the playoffs generally plays a more nastier style of hockey. I would think being 45 lbs heavier, his body is better equipped to handled the punishment than a 180 lb guy.


I think the size stuff comes from listening to too much Bob Stauffer. It's just really not that meaningful. There are bigger guys who are bandaids, and smaller guys who do just fine. Guentzel has missed very few games, under 10 in the last 4 years before this.

The nationality of players obsession sounds a lot like Oilers media too who are constantly generalizing about players from different countries and then worrying about whether they'll like Canada or not. The truth is, most of them are only here to play hockey. If they're winning, they'll love it, other than the crappy sports media guys asking idiotic questions every day.

Tarasenko would be another fine target as a top-6 player. But neither Guentzel's American-ness nor his size should scare anyone off. And if you can get an assessment on his health and comfort that he's back before the playoffs (or right at the playoffs even if you don't have cap room), then health shouldn't be a big factor either.

Cap hit and acquisition cost are the only real factors I'd be concerned about. And a big part of me would be hoping that several of the mediocre GMs in the league were too concerned about his health, his size and his nationality to bother putting in a proposal.

Look man, if you want me to not get bent out of shape over your comments, then please stop insulting me. You have made similar comments to me before and I find them offensive. I'm being civil here, I'm not coming at you so you don't need to take shots at me.

Yes I listen to sports talk radio. I listen to it at work. I keep it in the background. I don't have the time to scour the internet every day reading every article every hockey person writes. So sports talk radio is an easy way for me to hear the information and opinions of many of the same people who write articles. That's why I listen to it. I also listen to Stauffer because he brings in good guests generally and he's the mouth piece of the team. So I like hearing what the team is thinking. That being said, while I sometimes agree with what the Stauffers of the world say, I don't always agree with them nor do I just automatically adopt what they as as my own opinion. I am my own man, I have my own opinions. So I do find it offensive you insinuating that I am unable to form my own opinions and just some idiot regurgitating what the Stauffer's say.

I do engineering for a living, I have taken a lot of math courses and a lot of science and physics courses. So my comment about Guentzel has nothing to do with what Bob thinks. It's simple basic science. Force = MASS x acceleration. If you don't believe me, look it up. So a heavier object is going to exert more force than a lighter object. So when a 200 lbs dman skates and hits a 180 lbs forward, the 200lber is going to have more force than the 180lber. That's science.

So in the case of Guentzel, he has an upper body injury that is keeping him out for 4 weeks. I don't know what it is, nor did I see what happened but generally when someone is out with an upper body injury for a month, it's either a shoulder problem, head or maybe ribs. Regardless, none of them are good. So there is a risk involved in trading for a guy who probably has one of those injuries which after a month, in all likelihood, will maybe be healed enough to play but probably not fully because that's how they role in the NHL. So there is a risk in him reinjuring himself because he probably won't be 100% healthy. On top of that, because he is 180 lbs, he's not as thick and able to absorb as much physical punishment as heavier guys. So when someone tries to hit him, because he doesn't have the same amount of body mass as say Hyman who's 206, he won't able to absorb the hit as easily as Hyman and the risk of reinjuring himself is going to be higher.

So again, my comment has nothing to do with listening to Bob and not being able to formulate my own opinion without his help, it's simple science. Heavier objects in most cases will do better with contact scenario's than lighter ones.


I seem to recall us getting owned by a 5'9" guy that has been hurt a bunch of times in his career. a guy that almost had his career end with disc issues in his neck, and a guy that supposedly has constant chronic back pain. Also had a dman that seems to miss half of every season.

Hyman and Kane were basically cripples most of last playoffs and helped get us stuck with a 1 line team again because our wingers were useless.

All that matters is if guys can perform when the time comes. You do yourself favors and help your odds IMO if you get guys that have shown they can. Guentzel 100% has shown he can perform in the playoffs against teams big and small. He's one of those smart players that has a nose for open ice and can finish.

I am not against Guentzel if he's healthy. But none of what I said is incorrect like Adam said. If you are 180 lbs vs 200, your body typically isn't going to be able to take physical pounding as well. That's true.

So I am simply saying it's a risk to trade for him because he's already got an upper body injury severe enough he is missing a month when his team badly needs. That's it. Doesn't mean I am just another backward thinking guy who thinks smaller guys can't play.


I Would say everyone is different. Some bigger guys have low pain tolerance, weaker joints less core strength, etc... and can't take a hit nearly as good as some smaller guys. Some big guys experience concussions and whiplash far more easily. Lots of smaller guys can be stronger and denser, some big guys take their height for granted. And of course some small guys are far more heads up and can avoid a lot more than a big guy. It's all over the map.

Does suck he got hurt. Would have been awesome to trade for him before he was on IR, then we could have cap scammed and started him for game 1 :) Oh, who am I kidding, Holland would never.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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