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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #714947 is a reply to message #714938 ]
Thu, 24 May 2018 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 May 2018 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 24 May 2018 14:13

Derek Van Diest @DerekVanDiest

#Oilers expected to announce the hiring of assistants Trent Yawney, Glen Gulutzan and Manny Vivieros possibly as early as tomorrow. That's a lot of hockey knowledge on one staff ... #NHL




Guess Manny is gonna be our hope for a competent PP?


Are you sure? According to Adam who knows everything, assistants do jack squat with special teams. It's all the head coach apparently. That is completely the opposite of my understand and what I have heard but who am I to disagree with Adam. I am not even sure what the point of an assistant is really.


Adam said assistant coaches do jack squat? Perhaps you skipped over this part..

”The assistants can have input, they can draw up plans, they can brainstorm, they can be responsible for communicating the plan to the players.”

Nice tantrum though..



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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #714971 is a reply to message #714947 ]
Fri, 25 May 2018 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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g2k wrote on Thu, 24 May 2018 18:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 May 2018 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 24 May 2018 14:13

Derek Van Diest @DerekVanDiest

#Oilers expected to announce the hiring of assistants Trent Yawney, Glen Gulutzan and Manny Vivieros possibly as early as tomorrow. That's a lot of hockey knowledge on one staff ... #NHL




Guess Manny is gonna be our hope for a competent PP?


Are you sure? According to Adam who knows everything, assistants do jack squat with special teams. It's all the head coach apparently. That is completely the opposite of my understand and what I have heard but who am I to disagree with Adam. I am not even sure what the point of an assistant is really.


Adam said assistant coaches do jack squat? Perhaps you skipped over this part..

”The assistants can have input, they can draw up plans, they can brainstorm, they can be responsible for communicating the plan to the players.”

Nice tantrum though..




As far as the input of the assistants I doubt any of us REALY know how it works with TM. It is different from head coach to head coach.

I did play high enough hockey to have experienced a "real" coaching staff or five. Two examples seem relevant here.
- on one team the head coach was very hands off special teams. I am sure there was coach meeting group discussions but when it came to practice the head coach was mostly in the neutral zone watching while PP1 and PK 1 worked in slow motion through the systems in one end. In the other PP2 and PK2 went full speed in a live drill. Then we switched.
During the game the coach tended to be watching the ice, deciding matchups, etc. The assistants did all of the talking to players on the bench. I almost never heard from the head coach during the game.
- on another it was the basically the opposite. The coach was very hands on, constantly in the middle of drills, explaining, talking. Same on the bench, he was hunched over, one on one, in a a players ear, after almost every shift. The assistants ran the respective matchups during the game.

I guess what I am getting at is this is one move I am happy to have a wait and see attitude on. Almost all of us agreed that the assistants had to change and it is hard for me to think of better choices of the top of my head.
The only concern I have is the two many cooks in the kitchen issue with one head coach and two former head coaches. That is a double edged sword as we have three guys with head coach experience which I think I would rather have than life long assistants.

IMO the success of the staff will come down to delegation, TM accepting change if there are good ideas, and the ability of the group to be a cohesive unit.



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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #714973 is a reply to message #714971 ]
Fri, 25 May 2018 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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PlusOne wrote on Fri, 25 May 2018 09:38

g2k wrote on Thu, 24 May 2018 18:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 May 2018 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 24 May 2018 14:13

Derek Van Diest @DerekVanDiest

#Oilers expected to announce the hiring of assistants Trent Yawney, Glen Gulutzan and Manny Vivieros possibly as early as tomorrow. That's a lot of hockey knowledge on one staff ... #NHL




Guess Manny is gonna be our hope for a competent PP?


Are you sure? According to Adam who knows everything, assistants do jack squat with special teams. It's all the head coach apparently. That is completely the opposite of my understand and what I have heard but who am I to disagree with Adam. I am not even sure what the point of an assistant is really.


Adam said assistant coaches do jack squat? Perhaps you skipped over this part..

”The assistants can have input, they can draw up plans, they can brainstorm, they can be responsible for communicating the plan to the players.”

Nice tantrum though..




As far as the input of the assistants I doubt any of us REALY know how it works with TM. It is different from head coach to head coach.

I did play high enough hockey to have experienced a "real" coaching staff or five. Two examples seem relevant here.
- on one team the head coach was very hands off special teams. I am sure there was coach meeting group discussions but when it came to practice the head coach was mostly in the neutral zone watching while PP1 and PK 1 worked in slow motion through the systems in one end. In the other PP2 and PK2 went full speed in a live drill. Then we switched.
During the game the coach tended to be watching the ice, deciding matchups, etc. The assistants did all of the talking to players on the bench. I almost never heard from the head coach during the game.
- on another it was the basically the opposite. The coach was very hands on, constantly in the middle of drills, explaining, talking. Same on the bench, he was hunched over, one on one, in a a players ear, after almost every shift. The assistants ran the respective matchups during the game.

I guess what I am getting at is this is one move I am happy to have a wait and see attitude on. Almost all of us agreed that the assistants had to change and it is hard for me to think of better choices of the top of my head.
The only concern I have is the two many cooks in the kitchen issue with one head coach and two former head coaches. That is a double edged sword as we have three guys with head coach experience which I think I would rather have than life long assistants.

IMO the success of the staff will come down to delegation, TM accepting change if there are good ideas, and the ability of the group to be a cohesive unit.


I would bet a lot that McLellan hell under your case #1.

He had been working with those assistants forever. Woodcroft for over a decade. If he can't leave something completely in Woodcroft's hands (unless it goes very bad), then that would be pretty damn ridiculous hehe. If we go by the comments through the year as well from McLellan and the media covering the team, it was highlighted very well when mcLellan actually took over the PK, and I think PP later as well, when things were getting historically bad.

Guess we'll see how he treats the new guys. I'd hope he gives them a shot. Might actually be to his benefit to put sole responsibility for things on these new guys, to keep the target off him a bit.



Not sure if I would prefer life long assistants. There is probably a pretty steep quality of creativity and smarts between guys that are just never able to show HC potential, and guys that have shown it. I think I would prefer to always have the highest quality guys on the bench at all times. It probably means you have guys rotating out more as they look for promotions, but that might be good too, letting players get different voices and perspectives to help evolve their game.

[Updated on: Fri, 25 May 2018 09:49]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #714978 is a reply to message #714973 ]
Fri, 25 May 2018 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Oilers made it official. https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/release-oilers-name-gulutzan -yawney-and-viveiros-assistant-coaches/c-298789660

Gulutzan, Yawney, Viveiros all have been hired. Let the trashing of these guys continue.



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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #714979 is a reply to message #714978 ]
Fri, 25 May 2018 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilMJMOil  is currently offline OilMJMOil
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 25 May 2018 10:37

Oilers made it official. https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/release-oilers-name-gulutzan -yawney-and-viveiros-assistant-coaches/c-298789660

Gulutzan, Yawney, Viveiros all have been hired. Let the trashing of these guys continue.


Good hirings. Let’s wait and see but should bring some optimism.



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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #714984 is a reply to message #714979 ]
Fri, 25 May 2018 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Something of note with the new hires.

Woodguy @Woodguy55
List of players who played under Yawney in his 3 years as an AHL HC that graduated to the NHL: (might not be complete)
Patrick Maroon, Peter Holland, Kyle Palmeri, Nick Bonino, Sami Vatanen, Devante Smith-Pelly, Emmerson Etem, Chris Wagner, Hampus Lindholm and Rickard Rakell


Phil Maroon @phillyphilstl2
I know Pat gives Coach Yawney all the credit on getting him from AHL to NHL.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715010 is a reply to message #714904 ]
Fri, 25 May 2018 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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At the risk of being labeled a pessimist, Sunil Agnihotri at thesuperfan.ca dug into Yawney's performance in Anaheim a bit and results are not ideal. Basically the ducks pk has been below average and Gibson is the best pk goalie in the league.

Quote:

Below are the Ducks numbers from the last four seasons, including the rate of goals against, the rate of expected goals against and the team save percentage. I’ve also included the Ducks league ranking in parentheses (Source: Corsica Hockey)

Season GA/60 xGA/60 Save%
2014/15 5.45 (3rd) 6.61 (19th) 88.92 (3rd)
2015/16 4.15 (1st) 5.79 (10th) 91.27 (1st)
2016/17 4.86 (2nd) 7.44 (28th) 90.80 (1st)
2017/18 5.48 (4th) 7.23 (18th) 90.35 (3rd)


thesuperfan.ca/2018/05/25/looking-into-the-ducks-penalty-kil l-under-trent-yawney/amp/

Just looking at shots against/60 on the pk this year, Anaheim was 23rd in the league at 58.15. Shockingly, the Oilers were best in the league at 49.45

www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php?season=20172018&s type=2&sit=pk&score=all&rate=y&vs=all&lo c=B&gpf=82&fd=2018-04-11&td=2018-05-23

[Updated on: Sat, 26 May 2018 09:28]


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games!!

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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715013 is a reply to message #715010 ]
Sat, 26 May 2018 01:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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Does that take into account quality of shots? I'd rather allow more low percentage shots than fewer shots but from prime scoring spots, which happened all too often last year.


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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715014 is a reply to message #715013 ]
Sat, 26 May 2018 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Sat, 26 May 2018 01:00

Does that take into account quality of shots? I'd rather allow more low percentage shots than fewer shots but from prime scoring spots, which happened all too often last year.


Expected goals (xG) is supposed to try to account for quality, but it isn't perfect. a shot from 10 feet away at a wide open net off a cross ice pass has the same xG as a guy taking a shot 10 ft away at a perfectly set goalie. we were the masters at allowing that wide open version last year.

it is possible to consistently get results where you give up a decent amount of shots, but your goalie is consistently getting good sav% results, if you are playing a system that makes your goalies job very easy, funneling teams to take shots at your fully prepared goalie. who knows though, I have never paid attention to the ducks PK. Let us all just hope for the best.



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[Updated on: Sat, 26 May 2018 08:15]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715016 is a reply to message #715013 ]
Sat, 26 May 2018 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Sat, 26 May 2018 00:00

Does that take into account quality of shots? I'd rather allow more low percentage shots than fewer shots but from prime scoring spots, which happened all too often last year.


Ya, as Kr55 mentioned the xG does take into account where the shot came from and the type of shot. It's not perfect for sure. The heat maps from hockeyviz.com also give a bit more context. These don't account for the type of shot, or quality, but I think it's pretty hard to argue that giving up a higher than average number of shots from the slot is a good thing.

https://sunilagni.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/duckspk20172018.png

https://sunilagni.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/duckspk20162017.png



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games!!

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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715020 is a reply to message #715010 ]
Sat, 26 May 2018 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Fri, 25 May 2018 18:25

At the risk of being labeled a pessimist, Sunil Agnihotri at thesuperfan.ca dug into Yawney's performance in Anaheim a bit and results are not ideal. Basically the ducks pk has been below average and Gibson is the best pk goalie in the league.

Quote:

Below are the Ducks numbers from the last four seasons, including the rate of goals against, the rate of expected goals against and the team save percentage. I’ve also included the Ducks league ranking in parentheses (Source: Corsica Hockey)

Season GA/60 xGA/60 Save%
2014/15 5.45 (3rd) 6.61 (19th) 88.92 (3rd)
2015/16 4.15 (1st) 5.79 (10th) 91.27 (1st)
2016/17 4.86 (2nd) 7.44 (28th) 90.80 (1st)
2017/18 5.48 (4th) 7.23 (18th) 90.35 (3rd)


thesuperfan.ca/2018/05/25/looking-into-the-ducks-penalty-kil l-under-trent-yawney/amp/

Just looking at shots against/60 on the pk this year, Anaheim was 23rd in the league at 58.15. Shockingly, the Oilers were best in the league at 49.45

www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php?season=20172018&s type=2&sit=pk&score=all&rate=y&vs=all&lo c=B&gpf=82&fd=2018-04-11&td=2018-05-23


We were high up because the opposing teams didn’t need to generate many shots to score.



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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715022 is a reply to message #715020 ]
Sun, 27 May 2018 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Sat, 26 May 2018 19:28

Goose wrote on Fri, 25 May 2018 18:25

At the risk of being labeled a pessimist, Sunil Agnihotri at thesuperfan.ca dug into Yawney's performance in Anaheim a bit and results are not ideal. Basically the ducks pk has been below average and Gibson is the best pk goalie in the league.

Quote:

Below are the Ducks numbers from the last four seasons, including the rate of goals against, the rate of expected goals against and the team save percentage. I’ve also included the Ducks league ranking in parentheses (Source: Corsica Hockey)

Season GA/60 xGA/60 Save%
2014/15 5.45 (3rd) 6.61 (19th) 88.92 (3rd)
2015/16 4.15 (1st) 5.79 (10th) 91.27 (1st)
2016/17 4.86 (2nd) 7.44 (28th) 90.80 (1st)
2017/18 5.48 (4th) 7.23 (18th) 90.35 (3rd)


thesuperfan.ca/2018/05/25/looking-into-the-ducks-penalty-kil l-under-trent-yawney/amp/

Just looking at shots against/60 on the pk this year, Anaheim was 23rd in the league at 58.15. Shockingly, the Oilers were best in the league at 49.45

www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php?season=20172018&s type=2&sit=pk&score=all&rate=y&vs=all&lo c=B&gpf=82&fd=2018-04-11&td=2018-05-23


We were high up because the opposing teams didn’t need to generate many shots to score.


Other than shot quality, I can’t see why a goalie would be better on the power play when compared to 5 on 5.

To me that suggests a shot quality difference.



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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715023 is a reply to message #715020 ]
Sun, 27 May 2018 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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inverno76 wrote on Sat, 26 May 2018 19:28

Goose wrote on Fri, 25 May 2018 18:25

At the risk of being labeled a pessimist, Sunil Agnihotri at thesuperfan.ca dug into Yawney's performance in Anaheim a bit and results are not ideal. Basically the ducks pk has been below average and Gibson is the best pk goalie in the league.

Quote:

Below are the Ducks numbers from the last four seasons, including the rate of goals against, the rate of expected goals against and the team save percentage. I’ve also included the Ducks league ranking in parentheses (Source: Corsica Hockey)

Season GA/60 xGA/60 Save%
2014/15 5.45 (3rd) 6.61 (19th) 88.92 (3rd)
2015/16 4.15 (1st) 5.79 (10th) 91.27 (1st)
2016/17 4.86 (2nd) 7.44 (28th) 90.80 (1st)
2017/18 5.48 (4th) 7.23 (18th) 90.35 (3rd)


thesuperfan.ca/2018/05/25/looking-into-the-ducks-penalty-kil l-under-trent-yawney/amp/

Just looking at shots against/60 on the pk this year, Anaheim was 23rd in the league at 58.15. Shockingly, the Oilers were best in the league at 49.45

www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php?season=20172018&s type=2&sit=pk&score=all&rate=y&vs=all&lo c=B&gpf=82&fd=2018-04-11&td=2018-05-23


We were high up because the opposing teams didn’t need to generate many shots to score.


I think at one point this season we were the best team at suppressing SA/60, but bottom 2 or 3 in the NHL at high danger chances against/60.

We were offering up gold, and teams just didn't feel the need to take low percentage shots against us. And our goalies being sieves didn't help much either.

Same kinda principle we saw under Eakins. If you want to lower your shot attempts against, just leave the slot wide open, teams will start only shooting when they get the puck there because they see the golden opportunity.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715017 is a reply to message #714904 ]
Sat, 26 May 2018 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I will say i really like this quote from Yawney. Hopefully it rubs off on Todd.

Quote:

@JasonGregor: "I'm a big believer that when your players are playing well you stand behind them, and when things go off the rails you jump in front of them to help them. Often even in the coaches room protecting them knowing a coach has their back." Yawney #Oilers


https://twitter.com/JasonGregor/status/1000126534353596421?s =19



Wins in a row the Oilers need to get to playoff pace: infinity
games!!

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 Re: Yawney & Gulutzan Confirmed to Join Coaching Staff [message #715018 is a reply to message #715017 ]
Sat, 26 May 2018 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Sat, 26 May 2018 10:40

I will say i really like this quote from Yawney. Hopefully it rubs off on Todd.

Quote:

@JasonGregor: "I'm a big believer that when your players are playing well you stand behind them, and when things go off the rails you jump in front of them to help them. Often even in the coaches room protecting them knowing a coach has their back." Yawney #Oilers


https://twitter.com/JasonGregor/status/1000126534353596421?s =19


Between Yawn’s quote and Gully basically saying he’ll get the guys a beer when he suspects they need a beer, there shouldn’t be any reason these coaches lose the room. icon_wink



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2018: We need to get faster, and we need a defenseman!

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