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Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808855]	Sat, 11 June 2022 20:02

sinfulchimp306
Messages: 942
Registered: June 2008
Location: Wilkie saskatchewan

No Cups

Just watching between periods of the east final, and Friedman saying that both have a decision to make. I mean that's pretty obvious, the interesting thing is that he said the Oilers have given both a deadline of July 1 to let the team know. I think for Elliott to be implying that both are considering it there's a fair chance we see at least one gone. I really hope it's Keith the extra cap next year would be amazing.

Formerly gagnerisgod.
PLAY LABAMBA BABY

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Re: Both smith and Keith considering retirement. [message #808856 is a reply to message #808855 ]	Sat, 11 June 2022 20:11

Kr55
Messages: 17118
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

https://i.ibb.co/6FMYCHK/giphy-2.gif

Fingers crossed we get the double!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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Re: Both smith and Keith considering retirement. [message #808857 is a reply to message #808855 ]	Sat, 11 June 2022 21:22

Oscargasm
Messages: 6623
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

6 Cups

That cap from Keith, along with the hit it provides the Blackhawks… then Dylan Strome is dealt to Edmonton. 👀

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Re: Both smith and Keith considering retirement. [message #808859 is a reply to message #808857 ]	Sat, 11 June 2022 22:03

inverno76
Messages: 2451
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 11 June 2022 21:22

That cap from Keith, along with the hit it provides the Blackhawks… then Dylan Strome is dealt to Edmonton. 👀

Too good to be true. We know how this ends.

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Re: Both smith and Keith considering retirement. [message #808863 is a reply to message #808855 ]	Sun, 12 June 2022 01:32

K.McC#24
Messages: 5373
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

sinfulchimp306 wrote on Sat, 11 June 2022 20:02

Just watching between periods of the east final, and freidman saying that both have a decision to make. I mean that's pretty obvious, the interesting thing is that he saalid the oilers have given both a deadline of July 1 to let the team know. I think for Elliott to be implying that both are considering it there's a fair chance we see at least one gone. I really hope it's Keith the extra cap next year would be amazing.

I'll believe the Duncan Keith thing when I see it, because iirc there are significant negative cap implications for Chicago if he does.

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Re: Both smith and Keith considering retirement. [message #808866 is a reply to message #808863 ]	Sun, 12 June 2022 10:02

Jakey
Messages: 205
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

My guess is Smith retires.

Keith’s actual salary is only $1.5 Million, so the incentive to play next year would only be for a chance to win potentially vs $$$. So I would say 65-35% he would retire. bet he stays the last year.

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Re: Both smith and Keith considering retirement. [message #808869 is a reply to message #808866 ]	Sun, 12 June 2022 11:26

Kr55
Messages: 17118
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Jakey wrote on Sun, 12 June 2022 10:02

My guess is Smith retires.

Keith’s actual salary is only $1.5 Million, so the incentive to play next year would only be for a chance to win potentially vs $$$. So I would say 65-35% he would retire. bet he stays the last year.

Offer Keith 2M to do whatever it is Coffey does as Coffey gets promoted to assistant GM.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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Re: Both smith and Keith considering retirement. [message #808871 is a reply to message #808869 ]	Sun, 12 June 2022 12:11

inverno76
Messages: 2451
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 June 2022 11:26

Jakey wrote on Sun, 12 June 2022 10:02

My guess is Smith retires.

Keith’s actual salary is only $1.5 Million, so the incentive to play next year would only be for a chance to win potentially vs $$$. So I would say 65-35% he would retire. bet he stays the last year.

Offer Keith 2M to do whatever it is Coffey does as Coffey gets promoted to assistant GM.

I think we need an amateur scout in the Okanagon interior region. Box checked?

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Re: Both smith and Keith considering retirement. [message #808883 is a reply to message #808869 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 08:20

Adam
Messages: 12703
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 June 2022 11:26

Jakey wrote on Sun, 12 June 2022 10:02

My guess is Smith retires.

Keith’s actual salary is only $1.5 Million, so the incentive to play next year would only be for a chance to win potentially vs $$$. So I would say 65-35% he would retire. bet he stays the last year.

Offer Keith 2M to do whatever it is Coffey does as Coffey gets promoted to assistant GM.

I would absolutely offer Duncan Keith a job as Advisor to the GM for ridiculous dollars with no responsibilities in order to free up his cap space. And I would be telling Mike Smith that I agreed with his assessment that he's done.

With Dylan Strome, I would be careful to do my diligence. Apparently Chicago has been trying desperately to flush him all season, and he was apparently on the Team Canada with the sexual misconduct allegations. That's all coming out eventually, so I would want to make sure I'm not bringing in something that's going to blow up in my face.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808875 is a reply to message #808855 ]	Sun, 12 June 2022 21:13

Kr55
Messages: 17118
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

sinfulchimp306 wrote on Sat, 11 June 2022 20:02

Just watching between periods of the east final, and Friedman saying that both have a decision to make. I mean that's pretty obvious, the interesting thing is that he said the Oilers have given both a deadline of July 1 to let the team know. I think for Elliott to be implying that both are considering it there's a fair chance we see at least one gone. I really hope it's Keith the extra cap next year would be amazing.

Not sure if this what you meant with the last sentence, but I didn't know that Keith retiring would not only give us his 5.5M, but it would also give us a 3.4M credit for next season because we paid him so much less than his cap hit last year.

gd it, retire Keith!!! DO IT!!!

https://c.tenor.com/ZpWIgnTC1dQAAAAM/shia-la-beouf-just-do-it.gif

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808968 is a reply to message #808875 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 18:37

K.McC#24
Messages: 5373
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 12 June 2022 21:13

sinfulchimp306 wrote on Sat, 11 June 2022 20:02

Just watching between periods of the east final, and Friedman saying that both have a decision to make. I mean that's pretty obvious, the interesting thing is that he said the Oilers have given both a deadline of July 1 to let the team know. I think for Elliott to be implying that both are considering it there's a fair chance we see at least one gone. I really hope it's Keith the extra cap next year would be amazing.

Not sure if this what you meant with the last sentence, but I didn't know that Keith retiring would not only give us his 5.5M, but it would also give us a 3.4M credit for next season because we paid him so much less than his cap hit last year.

gd it, retire Keith!!! DO IT!!!

https://c.tenor.com/ZpWIgnTC1dQAAAAM/shia-la-beouf-just-do-it.gif

Keith isn't going to dirty the Hawks with that cap hit, I dont think. Unless there's some bad blood there.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808876 is a reply to message #808855 ]	Sun, 12 June 2022 23:28

Oscargasm
Messages: 6623
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

6 Cups

Friedman giving oilers fans hope!? Pfft. Old news, what with the McDavid video going round twitter tonight of him with some other woman not Lauren… presumably with Kass and Nurse as well.

https://twitter.com/jpsgoat/status/1536213288953864192?s=21& amp; amp;t=-5JjjCV6y8B3SKE25_-S4g

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVG2nQgUsAANosf?format=jpg&name=small

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OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808877 is a reply to message #808876 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 00:40

MJ
Messages: 2035
Registered: November 1997
Location: Victoria

2 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 12 June 2022 22:28

Friedman giving oilers fans hope!? Pfft. Old news, what with the McDavid video going round twitter tonight of him with some other woman not Lauren… presumably with Kass and Nurse as well.

https://twitter.com/jpsgoat/status/1536213288953864192?s=21& amp; amp; amp;t=-5JjjCV6y8B3SKE25_-S4g

That one has been deleted. Found another: https://twitter.com/i/status/1536214507235602438

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808878 is a reply to message #808877 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 01:03

inverno76
Messages: 2451
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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Shoot. Hopefully that’s old footage otherwise he’s got some explaining to do.

To be fair, he looks to hammered to finish the deed.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808952 is a reply to message #808878 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 16:11

Skoobz
Messages: 1528
Registered: January 2006

1 Cup

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 01:03

Shoot. Hopefully that’s old footage otherwise he’s got some explaining to do.

To be fair, he looks to hammered to finish the deed.

People are saying it has to be old, because Nurse doesn't have a tattoo sleeve in the video.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808954 is a reply to message #808952 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 16:12

CrusaderPi
Messages: 13042
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Skoobz wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 16:11

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 01:03

Shoot. Hopefully that’s old footage otherwise he’s got some explaining to do.

To be fair, he looks to hammered to finish the deed.

People are saying it has to be old, because Nurse doesn't have a tattoo sleeve in the video.

I love it! CSI: Edmonchuk

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808879 is a reply to message #808877 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 01:27

Kr55
Messages: 17118
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

MJ wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 00:40

Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 12 June 2022 22:28

Friedman giving oilers fans hope!? Pfft. Old news, what with the McDavid video going round twitter tonight of him with some other woman not Lauren… presumably with Kass and Nurse as well.

https://twitter.com/jpsgoat/status/1536213288953864192?s=21& amp; amp; amp; amp;t=-5JjjCV6y8B3SKE25_-S4g

That one has been deleted. Found another: https://twitter.com/i/status/1536214507235602438

omg, trade him immediately!!

#TeamLauren

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808880 is a reply to message #808879 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 06:48

Mike
Messages: 4129
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

4 Cups

Man, if Smith AND Keith were to retire, and we somehow find someone to take Kassian, all of a sudden our cap troubles are more or less gone. That would be what, like $14M in cap space for just those 3? More than enough to sign Kane, JP, and Yamamoto, add a top shelf goalie, and even a top 4D if we are able to swap Barrie for an upgrade.

Honestly, if Holland could surround himself with competent people, Keith retiring alone should be enough to allow him to build a contender immediately.

Then next year, Sekera and Lucic come off the books, so that's another $2.25M.

I really hope they don't go stupid and buyout someone like Kassian. The cap hit would be around $667K next year, but then almost $2M the following year, and $1M the next 2.

He's not horrible. He's still an NHL player, just overpaid, but it's not like it's a $10M contract. Surely some old school GM will like the hits and whatever he brings for $3.2M. Send over a C prospect if that's what it takes, but please just stop using stupid buyouts.

[Updated on: Mon, 13 June 2022 06:54]

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808888 is a reply to message #808880 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 08:31

inverno76
Messages: 2451
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 06:48

Man, if Smith AND Keith were to retire, and we somehow find someone to take Kassian, all of a sudden our cap troubles are more or less gone. That would be what, like $14M in cap space for just those 3? More than enough to sign Kane, JP, and Yamamoto, add a top shelf goalie, and even a top 4D if we are able to swap Barrie for an upgrade.

Honestly, if Holland could surround himself with competent people, Keith retiring alone should be enough to allow him to build a contender immediately.

Then next year, Sekera and Lucic come off the books, so that's another $2.25M.

I really hope they don't go stupid and buyout someone like Kassian. The cap hit would be around $667K next year, but then almost $2M the following year, and $1M the next 2.

He's not horrible. He's still an NHL player, just overpaid, but it's not like it's a $10M contract. Surely some old school GM will like the hits and whatever he brings for $3.2M. Send over a C prospect if that's what it takes, but please just stop using stupid buyouts.

It really feels like this is a manageable job for a competent GM (I know, I know, I know).
We see these players being dealt all around the league. There will always be a buyer, but if you cannot find a sucker then you need to add a sweetener.

The timeshare philosophy.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808898 is a reply to message #808888 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 08:52

RDOilerfan
Messages: 5212
Registered: January 2016

5 Cups

I think Smith is done. So much of how he looked after the game, how he talked in the presser said he's done. He's about as cocky and arrogant and sure of himself as it gets. He got asked if he thinks he can be a starter again and he says he doesn't know if he has it in him, he has to think. That is not a usual Smith answer. Then he talks about not sure if he wants to train. He has to think. He's done.

Keith, I am not as sure. He talked a ton about how much fun it was, how cool it was his kid was around the room. The only thing in my opinion is he has nothing to prove. Everything he could win, he's won. Cups, medals, individual awards, there is nothing left to prove. He will probably make the hall of fame. This past season, before the season, people thought he was done, nothing left. He played pretty well for the Oilers. +15 on the year, played in a top 4 role and did mostly fine. He did help Bouchard learn the NHL. He helped an injury riddled Oilers team make the playoffs, finish second and make the conference finals. He wasn't the Keith of old, yes his cap hit isn't great but he was pretty good. Go out on a high. You proved you can still play, had a decent season. You aren't making a ton of money this season so is it worth beating yourself up again. There are ways in hockey teams you can make back the 1.5 mill, be a consultant. The guy has seen it all, done it all and won it all playing defense at an extreme high level while not being a huge man. Could he pass on how to play defense and be a nasty SOB while not drilling guys through the boards that guys like Bouchard could continue to learn from and Broberg absolutely could learn from? Hell yes. Could he be OK next year? Maybe but there is more of a chance his play declines or he gets injured when you are 38/39, that's life. Go out on a high having a good season where you played decent, helped a young maybe star in Bouchard take a step and helped and Oilers team take a BIG step in their search for a championship plus you are healthy. Be a dad.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808970 is a reply to message #808880 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 18:55

Skookum Jim
Messages: 7489
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 05:48

Man, if Smith AND Keith were to retire, and we somehow find someone to take Kassian, all of a sudden our cap troubles are more or less gone. That would be what, like $14M in cap space for just those 3? More than enough to sign Kane, JP, and Yamamoto, add a top shelf goalie, and even a top 4D if we are able to swap Barrie for an upgrade.

Honestly, if Holland could surround himself with competent people, Keith retiring alone should be enough to allow him to build a contender immediately.

Then next year, Sekera and Lucic come off the books, so that's another $2.25M.

I really hope they don't go stupid and buyout someone like Kassian. The cap hit would be around $667K next year, but then almost $2M the following year, and $1M the next 2.

He's not horrible. He's still an NHL player, just overpaid, but it's not like it's a $10M contract. Surely some old school GM will like the hits and whatever he brings for $3.2M. Send over a C prospect if that's what it takes, but please just stop using stupid buyouts.

I agree, no need to buy out Kassian.. you can deal him to a sub cap team..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808928 is a reply to message #808879 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 11:41

welcometotheOC
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That sure looks like a much younger McD to me. My guess is it is at least 5 years old, maybe older.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808931 is a reply to message #808928 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 11:58

inverno76
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welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 11:41

That sure looks like a much younger McD to me. My guess is it is at least 5 years old, maybe older.

Looks like they were clubbing too. Can Nurse really be doing the Macarena already?

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808972 is a reply to message #808928 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 19:06

Skookum Jim
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welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 10:41

That sure looks like a much younger McD to me. My guess is it is at least 5 years old, maybe older.

You're probably right, can't see Nurse with a kid, and Kassian with 2 (?) out clubbing it..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808966 is a reply to message #808855 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 18:06

Adam
Messages: 12703
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Stauffer reporting and other outlets confirming that the NHL doesn’t think negative cap hit should be a thing and may not let us have it if Keith were to retire.

If the Oilers meekly accept another arbitrary change to the rules to the Oilers detriment, then I’m going to lose my mind. This is written in to the CBA rules so the Oilers should be getting a lawyer if this happens.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808967 is a reply to message #808966 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 18:13

Kr55
Messages: 17118
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 18:06

Stauffer reporting and other outlets confirming that the NHL doesn’t think negative cap hit should be a thing and may not let us have it if Keith were to retire.

If the Oilers meekly accept another arbitrary change to the rules to the Oilers detriment, then I’m going to lose my mind. This is written in to the CBA rules so the Oilers should be getting a lawyer if this happens.

wow, no mercy eh? Get handicapped by a cap hit 3.4M over a guys salary and league just gives us a finger when the rules say we get it back.

Holland should argue the reason he let Bowman bend him over was because of the potential of the by the rules cap benefit if Keith retired. If that was not in the rules we would have extracted more value from Chicago. Of course that would all be a lie and maybe the league knows Holland gets squeezed all the time, but just on the surface it could make sense.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808971 is a reply to message #808966 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 19:01

Skookum Jim
Messages: 7489
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6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 17:06

Stauffer reporting and other outlets confirming that the NHL doesn’t think negative cap hit should be a thing and may not let us have it if Keith were to retire.

If the Oilers meekly accept another arbitrary change to the rules to the Oilers detriment, then I’m going to lose my mind. This is written in to the CBA rules so the Oilers should be getting a lawyer if this happens.

Anyone that doesn't think the NHL considers the Oilers a 2nd or 3rd tier franchise just needs to look at the NHL rulings against us.. trade arbitrations (Neal).. fired coach.. fired GM.. years of lopsided DOPS rulings.. goalie interference (Kessler).. etc.. etc..

If Keith did retire, and the NHL steps in to drop a new interpretation of the existing rule.. then Katz definitely should sue the NHL for breach of league governance regulations (CBA).

This from DNB
https://twitter.com/DNBsports/status/1536510579493376001?cxt =HHwWgsCoxeaO5NIqAAAA

Quote:

Daniel Nugent-Bowman @DNBsports
I’ve heard whispers of this, too.

Considering the cap recapture rules are outlined in the CBA, this would be some next-level nonsense IF the Oilers don’t benefit IF Keith retires.

[Updated on: Mon, 13 June 2022 23:55]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808975 is a reply to message #808971 ]	Mon, 13 June 2022 20:26

inverno76
Messages: 2451
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2 Cups

That’s some kind of donkey

donkey

Has any team had this many rulings against them?

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808977 is a reply to message #808975 ]	Tue, 14 June 2022 00:07

Skookum Jim
Messages: 7489
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 19:26

That’s some kind of donkey

donkey

Has any team had this many rulings against them?

I have a feeling I missed another one or two over the years..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808980 is a reply to message #808966 ]	Tue, 14 June 2022 06:27

Mike
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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 21:06

Stauffer reporting and other outlets confirming that the NHL doesn’t think negative cap hit should be a thing and may not let us have it if Keith were to retire.

If the Oilers meekly accept another arbitrary change to the rules to the Oilers detriment, then I’m going to lose my mind. This is written in to the CBA rules so the Oilers should be getting a lawyer if this happens.

I mean how would they even justify that? The Neal pro-rated goals one so far is the worst, with Nichushkin "onside" not far behind, but this would trump them.

It's like at one end you've got the Oilers who seem to have the worst case outcome time and time again. Often even worse than what was thought to be worst case. At the other end, you've got Lou Lamoriello who gets fined a 1st round pick for cap circumvention and just tells the league to piss off "no - I don't think I'll give up 1st round pick", and the league is just like "ok, sure thing Mr Lamoriello"

At any rate - that $5.5 coming off the books would go a long way to giving us room to get something done this summer. An extra $3.4 would be a godsend. Here's to hoping.

Honestly, I can see Keith calling it a career - he was fine, but surely he felt himself running on empty by the end of the first round, let alone by the 3rd round. He will be a year older. Does he really want to put himself through the rigors of another NHL season for $1.5M? He's made almost $80M over his career. Like inverno76 says, surely he can be talked into taking a scouting position in the Okanagan.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808989 is a reply to message #808980 ]	Tue, 14 June 2022 08:16

RDOilerfan
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I don't get why the NHL does this to the Oilers. Did someone from the organization sleep with Bettman and the rest of the leagues head staff wives? The make up those idiot rules where you have to pay compensation for hiring a fired GM and coach which last 1 year, the year the Oilers needed a new GM and coach. So they penalize the Oilers, then scrap it immediately after. Now this? If you don't even follow the rules you draw up as a league, then what good is the CBA!

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808992 is a reply to message #808989 ]	Tue, 14 June 2022 09:29

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 14 June 2022 08:16

I don't get why the NHL does this to the Oilers. Did someone from the organization sleep with Bettman and the rest of the leagues head staff wives? The make up those idiot rules where you have to pay compensation for hiring a fired GM and coach which last 1 year, the year the Oilers needed a new GM and coach. So they penalize the Oilers, then scrap it immediately after. Now this? If you don't even follow the rules you draw up as a league, then what good is the CBA!

I think this is like the thing where the Oilers hate to criticize refs. The team believes if we're just good little soldiers, eventually we'll get the breaks somewhere. But other owners and managers take a different approach and the NHL always caters to the squeaky wheels.

I still think it's ridiculous that the Oilers just meekly handed over an extra draft pick for James Neal based on pro-rating his season. He'd scored a huge percentage of his goals early, and it was far from a certainty he was going to continue at that scoring rate. There was no provision for prorating in the event of injury, and players around the league didn't get bonuses based on prorating - because the wording is clear. The player needs to achieve X for Y to occur. Neal didn't score the goals, and the NHL still told us to give up our pick, and the management team never said a word about it. That one is especially galling because the NHL can just add extra 3rd round picks if they feel they need to, so they could potentially have given Calgary compensation without taking it from us.

If the Oilers continue to be the team that meekly complies whenever something comes up, we can expect to keep ending up on the wrong side of these things. If Keith does retire, then Holland needs to claim (even though we all know it's untrue) that he factored this in to his calculations when he made the trade for Duncan Keith. He was always counting on this likely resulting in extra cap room in 2022-23, and since it is written in black and white that that's how the rules are, we're going to kick and scream and fuss and hire lawyers to get this enforced properly, not just in a weird slap dash change because Rocky Wirtz doesn't want to have a cap penalty.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #808998 is a reply to message #808992 ]	Tue, 14 June 2022 09:58

CrusaderPi
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I'd like to propose the following alternatives:

1. The Oilers don't get a shafted more than anyone else. We just pay more attention to them and suffer from a normal amount of confirmation bias.
2. The Oilers do more stupid stuff than other teams and the NHL has to spend more time dealing with dumb things.
3. The Oilers are dumber than other teams and don't know what they're doing.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #809003 is a reply to message #808998 ]	Tue, 14 June 2022 10:23

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 14 June 2022 09:58

I'd like to propose the following alternatives:

1. The Oilers don't get a shafted more than anyone else. We just pay more attention to them and suffer from a normal amount of confirmation bias.
2. The Oilers do more stupid stuff than other teams and the NHL has to spend more time dealing with dumb things.
3. The Oilers are dumber than other teams and don't know what they're doing.

I don't necessarily think the league is out to screw the Oilers, but I think the Oilers do get screwed by arbitrary league decisions - like the decision to penalize teams for hiring coaches & managers under contract, and then deciding that included people removed from their responsibilities, and then deciding after really only the Oilers got dinged for it, that it was a ridiculous rule and that they were changing it back - BUT that the Oilers still needed to give up their picks.

I think there are teams that would fight that stuff tooth and nail - the cap circumvention penalties for New Jersey are definitely the most glaring - and then there's the Oilers who just sigh and accept their fate. I would posit that if the Oilers had raised a major fuss, or even threatened to raise a major fuss, about the extra James Neal pick that the league would have backed down and either found a compromise, or at least stuck by the letter of the agreement, which spelled out exactly how many goals he would have to score in order for the Flames to get compensation.

This Keith thing would be another of those areas - it would impact only the Oilers if the negative recapture wasn't allowed. Other teams have benefitted previously from similar situations and it's right in the agreement what it looks like. It would be absolutely bizarre for the Oilers to just let this go...but I think it's better than even odds that they wouldn't fight and would just hope that next time they'll finally get the break.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #809048 is a reply to message #808855 ]	Wed, 15 June 2022 01:43

Skookum Jim
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Here is Hart Levine (Puckpedia guru) on Stauffer talking about the cap ramifications to the Oilers and Blackhawks if Keith decided to retire (which is extremely doubtful)
https://globalnews.ca/edmonton/program/oilers-now-with-bob-s tauffer
To summarize.. Levine said that the NHL would have a hard time re-writing the CBA terms and negating the cap relief the Oilers would get because the NHLPA would likely file a grievance.. since that extra cap (Oilers cap relief) would in effect be taken away from the salary pool available to sign players.. i.e. reduces the overall league cap.. which otherwise the Oilers would spend on NHL players. Gary might have a fight on his hands.. and not just from the Oilers.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #809049 is a reply to message #809048 ]	Wed, 15 June 2022 02:16

Kr55
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Location: Edmonton

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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 15 June 2022 01:43

Here is Hart Levine (Puckpedia guru) on Stauffer talking about the cap ramifications to the Oilers and Blackhawks if Keith decided to retire (which is extremely doubtful)
https://globalnews.ca/edmonton/program/oilers-now-with-bob-s tauffer
To summarize.. Levine said that the NHL would have a hard time re-writing the CBA terms and negating the cap relief the Oilers would get because the NHLPA would likely file a grievance.. since that extra cap (Oilers cap relief) would in effect be taken away from the salary pool available to sign players.. i.e. reduces the overall league cap.. which otherwise the Oilers would spend on NHL players. Gary might have a fight on his hands.. and not just from the Oilers.

Makes sense.

Chicago, by the rules, gets a 7.4M penalty. If the Oilers don't get the 3.4M of space, then the NHLPA is being cut out of that money. What do you do to make up the 3.4M? Give it to Chicago to ease their pain? That would be ridiculous, they got all the benefit of the backdiving deal and it helped them win cups. The Oilers got all the penalty of his cap hit being 3.4M higher than his salary. It's completely obvious how this should be worked and it's already there in the rules.

I'm sure the NHL is working hard now though to figure out how to argue Chicago should get a 4M penalty instead of 7.4M.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #809053 is a reply to message #809049 ]	Wed, 15 June 2022 09:37

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 June 2022 02:16

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 15 June 2022 01:43

Here is Hart Levine (Puckpedia guru) on Stauffer talking about the cap ramifications to the Oilers and Blackhawks if Keith decided to retire (which is extremely doubtful)
https://globalnews.ca/edmonton/program/oilers-now-with-bob-s tauffer
To summarize.. Levine said that the NHL would have a hard time re-writing the CBA terms and negating the cap relief the Oilers would get because the NHLPA would likely file a grievance.. since that extra cap (Oilers cap relief) would in effect be taken away from the salary pool available to sign players.. i.e. reduces the overall league cap.. which otherwise the Oilers would spend on NHL players. Gary might have a fight on his hands.. and not just from the Oilers.

Makes sense.

Chicago, by the rules, gets a 7.4M penalty. If the Oilers don't get the 3.4M of space, then the NHLPA is being cut out of that money. What do you do to make up the 3.4M? Give it to Chicago to ease their pain? That would be ridiculous, they got all the benefit of the backdiving deal and it helped them win cups. The Oilers got all the penalty of his cap hit being 3.4M higher than his salary. It's completely obvious how this should be worked and it's already there in the rules.

I'm sure the NHL is working hard now though to figure out how to argue Chicago should get a 4M penalty instead of 7.4M.

Oh please let him retire and make this point not moot.

If I'm Holland, I'm asking Katz to make Keith the highest paid scout in the world for this coming season.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #809058 is a reply to message #809053 ]	Wed, 15 June 2022 10:11

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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Wishful thinking aside, I do wonder if there is a legit change Keith does retire. Smith I think it's a given. Just the way he talked, all the I don't knows when asked, even saying I don't know if he has it in him to train again, says a lot. But the fact Holland put it out there he gave Keith a deadline to let him know says to me, something was said in their end of year meeting that he was thinking about it seriously.

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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #809059 is a reply to message #809058 ]	Wed, 15 June 2022 10:16

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 June 2022 10:11

Wishful thinking aside, I do wonder if there is a legit change Keith does retire. Smith I think it's a given. Just the way he talked, all the I don't knows when asked, even saying I don't know if he has it in him to train again, says a lot. But the fact Holland put it out there he gave Keith a deadline to let him know says to me, something was said in their end of year meeting that he was thinking about it seriously.

I worry the Oilers are trying to talk Keith and Smith out of retirement, instead of pushing as hard as they can to get them gone...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Both Smith and Keith considering retirement [message #809062 is a reply to message #809059 ]	Wed, 15 June 2022 10:22

CrusaderPi
Messages: 13042
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Adam wrote on Wed, 15 June 2022 10:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 June 2022 10:11

Wishful thinking aside, I do wonder if there is a legit change Keith does retire. Smith I think it's a given. Just the way he talked, all the I don't knows when asked, even saying I don't know if he has it in him to train again, says a lot. But the fact Holland put it out there he gave Keith a deadline to let him know says to me, something was said in their end of year meeting that he was thinking about it seriously.

I worry the Oilers are trying to talk Keith and Smith out of retirement, instead of pushing as hard as they can to get them gone...

I can't see Keith sticking it to the Blackhawks after they did him a solid by trading him near Kelowna. It might happen, but I'd be stunned. The Smith situation is a little different. He won't hurt anyone by retiring and probably help his body a lot. The contract is set up so retirement can happen, which is nice. The problem is Smith is still the Oilers best option in net and he comes with a low cap hit.

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