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 "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461140]
Wed, 04 February 2009 07:51 Go to next message
Oiler Prime  is currently offline Oiler Prime
Messages: 13
Registered: August 2005
Location: Dawson Creek, BC

No Cups

That's what our GM said during the intermission on the PPV last night.

I'm not a MacT basher but I thinK he has lost this team as far as the message he is trying to send. You can only hear the same message so many times until you eventually tune it out and the way this team has been playing this year, it looks like the team is trying to send their own message to Managament and Ownership but they aren't listening.

MacT may be highly thought of through the League but there have been better coaches who have won Stanley Cup that have been fired. Hmmmmm.......



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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461152 is a reply to message #461140 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chiefbender  is currently offline chiefbender
Messages: 766
Registered: December 2006
Location: Illinois

No Cups

I think it is a certainty that MacTavish is among the greatest coaches of all time. Just take a look at the way he runs practices.......


Practice Schedule, Feb. 4 2009:

9:00 - Warm up

9:10 - Free skate (pucks optional)

9:20 - (Defensemen and Goaltenders) Losing your man in the Defensive zone

(Forwards) Turnovers in the neutral zone

9:35 - (All) Losing battles along the boards

9:50 - (All) Slow skating for line changes/getting too many men on the ice

10:00 - (Defensemen and Goaltenders) Ringing the puck blindly around the boards

(Forwards) Mental exercise (thinking of marshmallows)

10:15 - (All) Losing control of the puck at the blueline

10:30 - (All) Avoiding contact with the opposition

10:40 - Bag Skate (Not Horcoff or Moreau)

11:00 - Video breakdown (That Darn Cat)

11:30 - Cocktails



"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."

- Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower

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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461154 is a reply to message #461152 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
marcmatras  is currently offline marcmatras
Messages: 26
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

Thats gold! icon_lol


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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461158 is a reply to message #461154 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 08:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RSN2004  is currently offline RSN2004
Messages: 23
Registered: July 2005
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

What do you expect him to say? Don't worry, I am pretty sure Tambo knows that MacT isn't one of the best coaches in the league.


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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461162 is a reply to message #461158 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 09:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Treads  is currently offline Treads
Messages: 144
Registered: January 2006
Location: Calgary (which sucks)

No Cups

RSN2004 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 08:51

What do you expect him to say? Don't worry, I am pretty sure Tambo knows that MacT isn't one of the best coaches in the league.


Exactly. He never said his job was safe, which would have been the kiss of death, but he didn't give one of those non-commital answers either. I hope he has read MacT the riot act, if not, dust it off Tambo.

I don't disagree that MacT is probably a great X's and O's guy, like Muckler was back in the day. But Muckler came at the right time, when the team had matured and could motivate themselves. If Muckler is coaching, not Slats, we win 1 cup, maybe 2. Slats knew when to kick guys and fire them up, and he could do it with any type of player.

MacT is not a master motivator, I think his best trait is knowing when to leave the team alone, like in the 06 run. I think he let the room run itself, said a few words when he had to, and when the chips were down (Game 6 SCF) he brings in Mess to say a few words to fire the team up. At the time I thought it was a great move, but if, as a coach, you need to bring in outside help to fire your team up for Game 6 of the SCF, at home, down 3-2, you don't belong in the game.

In fact, your job as coach in that situation is probably to make sure the team doesn't get too revved up and blow their brains out in the first 10 minutes.

As a coach, you are judged on results. MacT doesn't have them. 2 or 3 more wins by the nucks in 05-06, and he has nothing to show for his tenure. I know the margin in the NHL is small between winning and losing, and management has to bear some blame too, but he needs to be held to account. I'll give him up to the lockout and say that we could not have done much better with the teams we had. Maybe we could have beaten Dallas once in his tenure, but really we had no business doing that even back in 97. But since the lockout he has failed to get this team to the next level. To me that is consistently challenging for a) NW Title b) Top 4 seed in the West, c) Western conference Championship. I think we have a team that can be close to Calgary in the division, and to Chicago/Anaheim in the West, but we aren't.

Management continually starts the season by setting expectations, in busienss we call that goal-setting. Most people are held to account for reaching or not reaching the goals set for them. Very rarely (like now) businesses will reset goals to make them more realisitic. The oilers talk about how good this team is, how exciting it is etc etc. They talk about winning the Division and getting back to the Finals.

Then, somewhere along the way, these expectations get dropped. Why? Because the organization is fixated on realtive success, not real success.

If we get 2 more points than last year, and still miss the playoffs, that will be the silver lining. There will be talk about injuries and bad breaks and the hope of next year.

Really good organizations measure themselves against the competition, not past performance. They aim for certain goals in the industry and then translate that into realtive goals for their people. "We want to be a top quartile producer, which means we need to increase production by 12% and lower our F&D cost by 3%"

But the goal is to be a top quartile company. The oilers seem happy with just doing better than last year, which really nothing special at all.

Mr.Katz, you are a business man, if this performance was happening in the Rexall business world, I know you would not hesitate to act. This is a business, and the sooner this organization is held to account for their performance, the better.



Faster than Pronger's retreat
More powerful than David Frost's Ego,
Able to leap small d-men in a single bound...

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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461160 is a reply to message #461152 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Unscarred  is currently offline Unscarred
Messages: 14
Registered: August 2006
Location: City of Champions

No Cups

Post of the year (so far).... Well done.

/standing ovation



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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461170 is a reply to message #461152 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Free Agent

Nice work, chiefbender. That gem deserves to be placed on the Oilfans front page.

With respect to Tambellini's quote, maybe he just meant MacTavish was one of the 30 best coaches in the league. Yeah, that makes more sense.



 

 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461209 is a reply to message #461152 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilerinvan  is currently offline oilerinvan
Messages: 1900
Registered: September 2007
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

chiefbender wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 08:32

I think it is a certainty that MacTavish is among the greatest coaches of all time. Just take a look at the way he runs practices.......


Practice Schedule, Feb. 4 2009:

9:00 - Warm up

9:10 - Free skate (pucks optional)

9:20 - (Defensemen and Goaltenders) Losing your man in the Defensive zone

(Forwards) Turnovers in the neutral zone

9:35 - (All) Losing battles along the boards

9:50 - (All) Slow skating for line changes/getting too many men on the ice

10:00 - (Defensemen and Goaltenders) Ringing the puck blindly around the boards

(Forwards) Mental exercise (thinking of marshmallows)

10:15 - (All) Losing control of the puck at the blueline

10:30 - (All) Avoiding contact with the opposition

10:40 - Bag Skate (Not Horcoff or Moreau)

11:00 - Video breakdown (That Darn Cat)

11:30 - Cocktails


I assume what you are pointing out is that much of what is happenign has nothing to do with the coach. I would agree.



Horcoff and MacIntyre rule.

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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461165 is a reply to message #461140 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dr. Oil  is currently offline Dr. Oil
Messages: 1270
Registered: June 2003
Location: BC

1 Cup

The worst part is, we're on a crash course with the most aggravating of all finishes this year, as we have about every third season with MacT: specifically, allowing Calgary to have the honour of eliminating us.

We need to be in a confirmed playoff spot before the last two games of the season. Otherwise, we all know which of the two Alberta teams plays with more pride and more fire when the chips are down against each other. Even though Cgy will be comfortably in 3rd place, they will still play with that extra vigour required to escort us to the Derrick golf course. And the fans will be that much more peeved as Lowe/Tambo/MacT lament about how close we were...

I just wish we had the "best coach in the NHL" to motivate the team when it mattered, namely bitter divisional games. This has not been seen with any regularity.



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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461166 is a reply to message #461140 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
haggis  is currently offline haggis
Messages: 201
Registered: September 2000
Location: St. Albert

No Cups

If he's one of the best in the league and we're still sat out of a playoff spot playing uninspried hockey wouldn't that imply it's therefore the GM that's not doing his job as the "one of the best coaches in the league" can't even make them perform?


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 It's Time (Still) [message #461187 is a reply to message #461140 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5833
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

There comes a time in professional team sports, all team sports, when the coach's message doesn't getting through to the players. The logical result is for the coach to be replaced. This isn't something new and innovative, it has happened for a century in professional sports.

When the coach's message becomes stale, when the team underachieves on a consistent basis, when the market dictates that you have to pretty much go with the players you have.... the time-tested response from management is to change the message to the players. Change the coach...bring fresh perspective, fresh tactics, fresh ideas to the dressing room, to practice and to the bench.

Even the most successful coaches in team sports face the end of their run with an organization. Every coach eventually will grow stale over time....either he needs the change of scenery or the team does....and he either resigns or is fired.

It's happened this way for over a century of professional sports, I see absolutely no reason why the Edmonton Oilers somehow aren't grasping this.

It's a tired rant, but I'll say it again....the coach over the years has had a stream of players come and go out of the dressing room, some very good players.....personnel has been changed & tweaked over the years, and the only decent result was with a roster who played mediocre for the season and only backed into the playoffs luckily because of a Vancouver collapse.....subsequently riding a goaltender to the finals. Assets in players come and go with the Oilers (as with every other team), and the common threads are MacT and poor/mediocre results.

Given these conditions, which are blatantly plain to see, the logical step for the Oilers is to try and extract a response from the play of the players through a change behind the bench, while the season's result is still in question.

MacT has had his run here. His approach is stale. His players are not responding.....several players are mired in slumps, and are not contributing in other ways with even an iota of intensity. The results game in and game out make this abundantly clear, and I'm not sure why the organization is not seeing this.




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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461189 is a reply to message #461187 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
Messages: 2550
Registered: March 2007

2 Cups

Ok, so the Oil decide they want to put MacT away.

Does that mean the oilers tank the season? Not many teams can get an upward stride with a coaching change, and with this tight race in our conference, this simply doesn't make sense to actually do that, it would mess the room up further not enhance it.

If we miss the playoffs then I think the change will occur, not before.

Secondly, the calling out of Penner by MacT, do good coaches even do that? It was effective the first time, the second, I don't think he had an impact. Penner battled a little bit last night but not in the form of his impact the first go around. I personally think Penner is playing himself out of town, he wants out of the big E.



The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461192 is a reply to message #461189 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sniper  is currently offline Sniper
Messages: 176
Registered: November 2004
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 12:22

Ok, so the Oil decide they want to put MacT away.

Does that mean the oilers tank the season? Not many teams can get an upward stride with a coaching change, and with this tight race in our conference, this simply doesn't make sense to actually do that, it would mess the room up further not enhance it.

If we miss the playoffs then I think the change will occur, not before.

Secondly, the calling out of Penner by MacT, do good coaches even do that? It was effective the first time, the second, I don't think he had an impact. Penner battled a little bit last night but not in the form of his impact the first go around. I personally think Penner is playing himself out of town, he wants out of the big E.


I agree. I think Penner is really regretting his decision to sign the Offer Sheet. Sure, he enjoys the money but I highly doubt he's enjoying playing hockey under MacT and the Oilers system, or lack there of.



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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461213 is a reply to message #461192 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
willy_lindstrom  is currently offline willy_lindstrom
Messages: 19
Registered: December 1997

No Cups

Random thoughts as i avoid work for a second:

1) I can't look at Tambo without getting ridiculously angry. He's waited a long, long time to be a GM, the titanic is sinking, and he's sitting on his hands doing nothing. For a franchise that talked about winning the division, fighting for a playoff spot is NOT what i signed on for at the beginning of the year.

2) I assumed Tambo's hiring gave KLowe the insullation he needed at the beginning of the year to fire MacT if the front office didn't like what they saw behind the bench (aka the "MacT, it wasn't my idea, i'm not the GM anymore" defence). The fact that MacT's still around, when clearly the team is not responding to him, is maddening.

3) The team clearly is not responding to MacT. I think it's significant the team had it's best recent stretch after a players' only meeting. I think the boys are ready for a new voice and a new system. I also think there's some "if the Oilers aren't going to make MacT accountable why should i be accountable to MacT" thing going on.

3) I look at the standings and can't believe we're still in the race. The team has no system; hates it's coach; and has only moderate interest in playing any single game. I hate the standings. I want this team to go on a 2006-07 run and lose 20 out of 21.

4) Penner wants out. The thing is, no one wants to pay him 4 mil. Katz is going to have to buy him out. That's the only way Pens moves before his contract is done.



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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461205 is a reply to message #461189 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5833
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 12:22

Ok, so the Oil decide they want to put MacT away.

Does that mean the oilers tank the season? Not many teams can get an upward stride with a coaching change, and with this tight race in our conference, this simply doesn't make sense to actually do that, it would mess the room up further not enhance it.

If we miss the playoffs then I think the change will occur, not before.

Secondly, the calling out of Penner by MacT, do good coaches even do that? It was effective the first time, the second, I don't think he had an impact. Penner battled a little bit last night but not in the form of his impact the first go around. I personally think Penner is playing himself out of town, he wants out of the big E.


I agree that a coaching change will not happen before the playoffs, but it should.

I think this team would get a bounce from a change. Is it a coincidence that half the players are mired in serious slumps, or that there is little cohesion, no jam, and apparently not a lot of pride? NO, we've seen all these things at one time or another, but never all at once.

There aren't a lot of options here the way things are now.....at best this season dinks and dunks into a 9th-10th place finish, at worst it totally tanks. I'd be very happy to see success and the team get in somehow, but I don't think it's in the cards. I don't think I've ever seen the natives so restless about this hockey team in damn near 30 years as a fan.

I also agree about Penner. He's not playing like he wants to be an Oiler.

I'd be shocked if there aren't a lot of players that would welcome a change at the bench. How could most of these players not look at many of MacT's decisions and strategies this year (and in years past) and not think WTF?

So basically, my opinion is that I see another mediocre result at best, a tanking at worst. Odds are there is no bounce coming with the status quo. Given that a mediocre, non-playoff finish is a very good possibility, why wait until the offseason? Why not try a logical change at the coaching position prior to the end of the season, while the season can still have a decent result? At worst you'll get the same result you would have anyway. At best, you will get a bounce and make the playoffs on a positive note....plus you will find out a lot about your players, prior to the trade deadline and prior to the draft.

I don't think the Oilers as an organization really have anything to lose by replacing their coach, and I'm disappointed but not surprised that it hasn't happened yet. It would be great if I'm way off on my take here, but I don't think I am.



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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461218 is a reply to message #461205 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Treads  is currently offline Treads
Messages: 144
Registered: January 2006
Location: Calgary (which sucks)

No Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 12:50

Rocksteady wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 12:22

Ok, so the Oil decide they want to put MacT away.

Does that mean the oilers tank the season? Not many teams can get an upward stride with a coaching change, and with this tight race in our conference, this simply doesn't make sense to actually do that, it would mess the room up further not enhance it.

If we miss the playoffs then I think the change will occur, not before.

Secondly, the calling out of Penner by MacT, do good coaches even do that? It was effective the first time, the second, I don't think he had an impact. Penner battled a little bit last night but not in the form of his impact the first go around. I personally think Penner is playing himself out of town, he wants out of the big E.


I agree that a coaching change will not happen before the playoffs, but it should.

I think this team would get a bounce from a change. Is it a coincidence that half the players are mired in serious slumps, or that there is little cohesion, no jam, and apparently not a lot of pride? NO, we've seen all these things at one time or another, but never all at once.

There aren't a lot of options here the way things are now.....at best this season dinks and dunks into a 9th-10th place finish, at worst it totally tanks. I'd be very happy to see success and the team get in somehow, but I don't think it's in the cards. I don't think I've ever seen the natives so restless about this hockey team in damn near 30 years as a fan.

I also agree about Penner. He's not playing like he wants to be an Oiler.

I'd be shocked if there aren't a lot of players that would welcome a change at the bench. How could most of these players not look at many of MacT's decisions and strategies this year (and in years past) and not think WTF?

So basically, my opinion is that I see another mediocre result at best, a tanking at worst. Odds are there is no bounce coming with the status quo. Given that a mediocre, non-playoff finish is a very good possibility, why wait until the offseason? Why not try a logical change at the coaching position prior to the end of the season, while the season can still have a decent result? At worst you'll get the same result you would have anyway. At best, you will get a bounce and make the playoffs on a positive note....plus you will find out a lot about your players, prior to the trade deadline and prior to the draft.

I don't think the Oilers as an organization really have anything to lose by replacing their coach, and I'm disappointed but not surprised that it hasn't happened yet. It would be great if I'm way off on my take here, but I don't think I am.



What I don't get is why they wouldn't make a move. Let's assume they know it is time for MacT to go, but they don't want to risk the team this season. The only reason they believe that is they believe that if we made the playoffs, we'd go back to the big dance. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!! This team has as much chance of making the SCF as I do getting into a 3-way with the Hilton sisters.

So if we accept that this team will not go all the way, no matter who the coach is, why not change? Give players a 30 game try out and if the team turns it around and makes the playoffs, the new regime starts with good vibes. If not, the new coach gets a freebie. Downside? If the team goes into the crapper, we get a high pick and maybe we can start building something.

Sorry, I am not seeing the reason to keep MacT. Contract? How much extra do you pay him over 30 games? Katz can cover that and pick up lunch.

At the end of the day, if the new coach gets to see players in action, he can have some input into where we go from here. Like dropping a certain anCHor over the side, sans cable.

Whoops.





Faster than Pronger's retreat
More powerful than David Frost's Ego,
Able to leap small d-men in a single bound...

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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461221 is a reply to message #461218 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 4837
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

4 Cups

Treads wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 16:36

At the end of the day, if the new coach gets to see players in action, he can have some input into where we go from here. Like dropping a certain anCHor over the side, sans cable.

Whoops.



lmao Well done.

And I agree 100%. Worst case? We do the same damned thing we've always done in 8 years of MacT.



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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461223 is a reply to message #461221 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beerfish Revisited  is currently offline Beerfish Revisited
Messages: 1472
Registered: May 2005

1 Cup

Mikey wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 13:40

Treads wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 16:36

At the end of the day, if the new coach gets to see players in action, he can have some input into where we go from here. Like dropping a certain anCHor over the side, sans cable.

Whoops.



lmao Well done.

And I agree 100%. Worst case? We do the same damned thing we've always done in 8 years of MacT.


That horribly premature move of replacing Savard with Quenville sure didn't work eh?....oh....wait.

That horrific move of turfing Glen Hanlon last year and bringing in Boudreau was a disaster!




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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461217 is a reply to message #461187 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goalpost  is currently offline goalpost
Messages: 331
Registered: March 2007
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 12:10



Assets in players come and go with the Oilers (as with every other team), and the common threads are MacT and poor/mediocre results.


MacT has had his run here. His approach is stale. His players are not responding.....several players are mired in slumps, and are not contributing in other ways with even an iota of intensity. The results game in and game out make this abundantly clear, and I'm not sure why the organization is not seeing this.



As I see it -- there are the three following options here:
1. As you've mentioned, good coach or bad coach, MacT has lost his dressing room;
2. In 2008/2009 season ticket drive / introduction of Katz ownership the Oilers overvalued their players [particularly the sophomore players] and overhyped fan expectations; and/or
3. Various mixtures of #1 and #2.

It would seem to me that the Oilers in not replacing MacT and Tambo supporting MacT as one of the best coaches in the NHL, the Oilers are effectively saying that it's more option 2 than option 1.
In which event, does this not lie at the feet of KLowe, or simply over-marketing because the Oilers marketing knew that the fans would revolt at any mention of "re-build"?



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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461224 is a reply to message #461217 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
Messages: 5833
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

5 Cups

goalpost wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 13:27

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 12:10



Assets in players come and go with the Oilers (as with every other team), and the common threads are MacT and poor/mediocre results.


MacT has had his run here. His approach is stale. His players are not responding.....several players are mired in slumps, and are not contributing in other ways with even an iota of intensity. The results game in and game out make this abundantly clear, and I'm not sure why the organization is not seeing this.



As I see it -- there are the three following options here:
1. As you've mentioned, good coach or bad coach, MacT has lost his dressing room;
2. In 2008/2009 season ticket drive / introduction of Katz ownership the Oilers overvalued their players [particularly the sophomore players] and overhyped fan expectations; and/or
3. Various mixtures of #1 and #2.

It would seem to me that the Oilers in not replacing MacT and Tambo supporting MacT as one of the best coaches in the NHL, the Oilers are effectively saying that it's more option 2 than option 1.
In which event, does this not lie at the feet of KLowe, or simply over-marketing because the Oilers marketing knew that the fans would revolt at any mention of "re-build"?


I see nothing wrong with the goal and the expectation to publicly be to achieve success....in this case to challenge for the division title. I think this is the case certainly for Katz's other business ventures...you can't really run a good business without setting goals, it enables measurement to see if you're really on track or if you're spinning your wheels.

I don't have a problem with the stated expectations, I think that's healthy. It follows that every attempt has to be made to deliver and to achieve those expectations. I don't think that's been the case.

Where Lowe is at fault is that some of his decisions in terms of contracts and valuing assets are appearing weak. Maybe there was recognition to that effect on the part of Lowe, and he took himself out of the GM position. Regardless, Lowe isn't going to get canned....I think he's on solid ground in the organization whether or not anyone thinks he should be.

Friendships and alliances aside, it's curious why Lowe wouldn't be seriously looking at the coaching position as something that's quite possibly keeping many of the assets HE signed/acquired from playing even to their past levels, let alone realizing their potential. What could be blinding him from this and not exerting influence on the GM, if he's not able to make the decision outright himself?



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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461251 is a reply to message #461224 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Free Agent

You know who I think is one of the best coaches in the league? Claude Julien, that's who. Oh, if only the Oilers could ever land a fish like that!


 

 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461260 is a reply to message #461224 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Darth Greene  is currently offline Darth Greene
Messages: 187
Registered: February 2008
Location: E-Town

No Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 13:47

goalpost wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 13:27

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 12:10



Assets in players come and go with the Oilers (as with every other team), and the common threads are MacT and poor/mediocre results.


MacT has had his run here. His approach is stale. His players are not responding.....several players are mired in slumps, and are not contributing in other ways with even an iota of intensity. The results game in and game out make this abundantly clear, and I'm not sure why the organization is not seeing this.



As I see it -- there are the three following options here:
1. As you've mentioned, good coach or bad coach, MacT has lost his dressing room;
2. In 2008/2009 season ticket drive / introduction of Katz ownership the Oilers overvalued their players [particularly the sophomore players] and overhyped fan expectations; and/or
3. Various mixtures of #1 and #2.

It would seem to me that the Oilers in not replacing MacT and Tambo supporting MacT as one of the best coaches in the NHL, the Oilers are effectively saying that it's more option 2 than option 1.
In which event, does this not lie at the feet of KLowe, or simply over-marketing because the Oilers marketing knew that the fans would revolt at any mention of "re-build"?


I see nothing wrong with the goal and the expectation to publicly be to achieve success....in this case to challenge for the division title. I think this is the case certainly for Katz's other business ventures...you can't really run a good business without setting goals, it enables measurement to see if you're really on track or if you're spinning your wheels.

I don't have a problem with the stated expectations, I think that's healthy. It follows that every attempt has to be made to deliver and to achieve those expectations. I don't think that's been the case.

Where Lowe is at fault is that some of his decisions in terms of contracts and valuing assets are appearing weak. Maybe there was recognition to that effect on the part of Lowe, and he took himself out of the GM position. Regardless, Lowe isn't going to get canned....I think he's on solid ground in the organization whether or not anyone thinks he should be.

Friendships and alliances aside, it's curious why Lowe wouldn't be seriously looking at the coaching position as something that's quite possibly keeping many of the assets HE signed/acquired from playing even to their past levels, let alone realizing their potential. What could be blinding him from this and not exerting influence on the GM, if he's not able to make the decision outright himself?


I hate how people condemn the Oilers for stating they had high expectations coming into the year. Better than the alternative I would think, aim high and try to get there. Also could have an impact down the road on the culture in the room. Change the mindset to a winning one instead of a "just make the P/O's and hope we can win a round" philosophy.

Another thing that is usually omitted when people criticize on this point is that it wasn't just the Oilers that had high expectations, it was the knowledgeable fans that can see this team has as much talent as any Oiler team in the last 15 years. It was also the hockey media that was projecting big things for this team. At the beginning of the year most hockey insiders were talking about the B-Hawks and the Oilers as being the "up-and-coming" teams this year. The young teams that would challenge the established order in the Western Conference.

People that state the Oilers "mislead" them into thinking this was a good team are wrong and are engaged in some serious revisionist history. If you are going to blame someone for over hyping the Oilers blame the team, AND the media, AND the fans.

And in reality there is only one reason this team has underachieved. It's not the talent, b/c I believe that on paper this team is as good as any in our division. Maybe a little bit beneath CAL to be truthful. The reason starts with a C, and ends with raig MacTavish. I don't think that a change with 30 games to go will have much impact (but hey, who knows), but there absolutely has to be a new coach/coaching staff in place for training camp.

Maybe the players already know Mac-T is gone at the end of the year, and are responding accordingly



And with the 1st pick overall the Edmonton Oilers are proud to select from the Swedish highschool league: Lars Svendsson.

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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461262 is a reply to message #461224 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goalpost  is currently offline goalpost
Messages: 331
Registered: March 2007
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 13:47


Friendships and alliances aside, it's curious why Lowe wouldn't be seriously looking at the coaching position as something that's quite possibly keeping many of the assets HE signed/acquired from playing even to their past levels, let alone realizing their potential. What could be blinding him from this and not exerting influence on the GM, if he's not able to make the decision outright himself?


It may very well be that we have the blind leading the blind [option 3] with KLowe having over valued assets and MacT failing to properly use them.
Instead of getting into cutthroat defenses [pointing fingers], as the management, coach and players have all alluded to they are likely all thinking that as long as the Oilers make the playoffs all will be forgiven, because "anything is possible" in the playoffs [although catching Detroit / San Jose with their pants down again is imo unlikely].
However, the blowouts, consistent complete lack of effort and disorganized play this year have been so prevalent this year that even in this results oriented business having required the fans to pay the freight for a years worth of embarrassing play to get knocked out in the first round may make the ends pale in comparison to the pain of the means.



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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461275 is a reply to message #461187 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 18:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 21683
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Oilers are setting the standard for when the time is to get rid of a lousy coach.

MacT has coached the most consecutive games for 1 team without getting his team a top 1/3 finish in either his conference or the league.

Perhaps this is just another example of Lowe thinking outside the box.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: It's Time (Still) [message #461280 is a reply to message #461275 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beerfish Revisited  is currently offline Beerfish Revisited
Messages: 1472
Registered: May 2005

1 Cup

pp has fallen to 20th in the league.
pk is steady at 28th
We now have played 2 more home games than road games.



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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL" [message #461259 is a reply to message #461140 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 5786
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

5 Cups

"One of the best coaches in the NHL"

Okay, then what's the explanation from the GM as to why the team that was supposed to be a division leader is currently sitting out of the playoffs after 50 games?

And what is the organization doing to improve?



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL [message #461268 is a reply to message #461140 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Longcat  is currently offline Longcat
Messages: 498
Registered: June 2002

No Cups

The funniest part of this thread is that people actually bought that PPV.


CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 14:57

I'm just going to say it, this Longcat fellow is quite possibly the best poster on Oilfans.

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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL [message #461270 is a reply to message #461268 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rekkin  is currently offline Rekkin
Messages: 330
Registered: September 2003
Location: Halfway 'tween Heaven and...

No Cups

Longcat wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 16:52

The funniest part of this thread is that people actually bought that PPV.


No doubt eh =p, the only reason my 6-2 prediction didn't come true was Roli standing on his head and the absolute lack of offense the team generates.

I'm truly amazed we're even in this playoff race at all right now but with Lubo gone that could change quickly...



The people you are sure are wrong are just as sure that you are wrong. The only difference is they're wrong. - God @TheTweetOfGod

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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL [message #461299 is a reply to message #461268 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oiler Prime  is currently offline Oiler Prime
Messages: 13
Registered: August 2005
Location: Dawson Creek, BC

No Cups

Longcat wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 16:52

The funniest part of this thread is that people actually bought that PPV.


Jokes on you, out of area CI subscribers get them as part of the CI package icon_smile I didn't pay a thing



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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL [message #461300 is a reply to message #461299 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh  is currently offline Babaganoosh
Messages: 1128
Registered: January 2009
Location: Medicine Hat,AB

1 Cup

I bought the season PPV package in advance. Oh well. Still better than half the crap on tv these days.


" If you have anything good to say, say it off!"

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 Re: "One of the best coaches in the NHL [message #461302 is a reply to message #461300 ]
Wed, 04 February 2009 23:56 Go to previous message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 15299
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Babaganoosh wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 23:29

I bought the season PPV package in advance. Oh well. Still better than half the crap on tv these days.

Really? Did you say that with a straight face? 'cause it sorta sounds like you are saying something out loud so you'll believe its true.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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