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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802694 is a reply to message #802690 ]
Tue, 22 March 2022 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 15:43

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 14:41

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 12:58

Looks too young. Hasn't earned the official's respect yet.


Hasn't worked for McD.. beard.. chipped teeth.. scars.. torn knee ligaments..
NHL refereeing is just bad, they have been allowed/encouraged to "interpret" the rulebook as they see fit in order to manage the games/scores. For a laugh I'd like to see a team of SEL Swede or Liga Finnish refs do an NHL game just to see the difference, I predict the calls would be more consistent, initially a lot of PP's, then eventually the players stop the infractions.. simple cause and effect.



Honestly, I think it's worse than just being asked to ref as they see fit.

I think the NHL believes that people want to see more "battles" so let the players mug each other, and they want more parity, so they emphasize to refs not to give any special treatment to stars - which gets skewed because refs in trying not to give preference go too far the other way.

I think that 2006 showed that when asked to, the refs can call the rule book, but the NHL doesn't actually want that. Several GMs argued against that - Brian Burke specifically argued that no holding and hooking means people are going too fast so suggested that they need to allow more interference in order to prevent injuries. And the guys in charge of reffing and discipline are Campbell and Parros - who wouldn't have had careers if they weren't allowed to get towed around the ice behind better players.

The NHL needs a culture change at the top - then maybe they'll realize that they hurt themselves by deemphasizing skill in favour of illegal play. But it probably doesn't happen until after Bettman is gone. I don't think he's changing out any of his lieutenants at this stage of the game.

I have said this before and I firmly believe it to be true.

There needs to be a culture change form all the guys that run the teams and the league, there is not doubt BUT. There also needs to be a culture change amongst the players.

The players are the ones that deal with it especially the stars. WHEN do you hear a player say anything? Pretty rare. A player gets mugged all game long and all they say is it's a tough job to be a ref or they won't talk about it. blah, blah blah. The top guys get it the worse so if all of these guys stood up and said something, I believe people would listen. But it has to be consistent and all of them. Not just a one off. But they won't do it because if they do and the refs start calling the rule book, guys in their union will lose jobs.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802700 is a reply to message #802694 ]
Tue, 22 March 2022 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 15:58

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 15:43

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 14:41

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 12:58

Looks too young. Hasn't earned the official's respect yet.


Hasn't worked for McD.. beard.. chipped teeth.. scars.. torn knee ligaments..
NHL refereeing is just bad, they have been allowed/encouraged to "interpret" the rulebook as they see fit in order to manage the games/scores. For a laugh I'd like to see a team of SEL Swede or Liga Finnish refs do an NHL game just to see the difference, I predict the calls would be more consistent, initially a lot of PP's, then eventually the players stop the infractions.. simple cause and effect.



Honestly, I think it's worse than just being asked to ref as they see fit.

I think the NHL believes that people want to see more "battles" so let the players mug each other, and they want more parity, so they emphasize to refs not to give any special treatment to stars - which gets skewed because refs in trying not to give preference go too far the other way.

I think that 2006 showed that when asked to, the refs can call the rule book, but the NHL doesn't actually want that. Several GMs argued against that - Brian Burke specifically argued that no holding and hooking means people are going too fast so suggested that they need to allow more interference in order to prevent injuries. And the guys in charge of reffing and discipline are Campbell and Parros - who wouldn't have had careers if they weren't allowed to get towed around the ice behind better players.

The NHL needs a culture change at the top - then maybe they'll realize that they hurt themselves by deemphasizing skill in favour of illegal play. But it probably doesn't happen until after Bettman is gone. I don't think he's changing out any of his lieutenants at this stage of the game.

I have said this before and I firmly believe it to be true.

There needs to be a culture change form all the guys that run the teams and the league, there is not doubt BUT. There also needs to be a culture change amongst the players.

The players are the ones that deal with it especially the stars. WHEN do you hear a player say anything? Pretty rare. A player gets mugged all game long and all they say is it's a tough job to be a ref or they won't talk about it. blah, blah blah. The top guys get it the worse so if all of these guys stood up and said something, I believe people would listen. But it has to be consistent and all of them. Not just a one off. But they won't do it because if they do and the refs start calling the rule book, guys in their union will lose jobs.


I think it's more fear of putting a bull's eye on their backs. You stand up and complain and the refs might do the reverse and call less against you. Or make a point of calling every ticky tack thing you do.

I think even people just CLAIMING McDavid was complaining about officiating got him a bit of a backlash in the last year, and he said virtually nothing.

Agreed it would be good if it was stars across the league all saying it.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802813 is a reply to message #802687 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 14:41

Adam wrote on Tue, 22 March 2022 12:58

Looks too young. Hasn't earned the official's respect yet.


Hasn't worked for McD.. beard.. chipped teeth.. scars.. torn knee ligaments..
NHL refereeing is just bad, they have been allowed/encouraged to "interpret" the rulebook as they see fit in order to manage the games/scores. For a laugh I'd like to see a team of SEL Swede or Liga Finnish refs do an NHL game just to see the difference, I predict the calls would be more consistent, initially a lot of PP's, then eventually the players stop the infractions.. simple cause and effect.


A ref does need to manage the game depending on the score. The simple reason is teams play differently depending on the score. The problem is these refs don't know how to do it anymore. It used to be about keeping emotions in check. If team is getting blown out your likely to call everything to keep it from getting out of hand. If it's close you give a little leeway and don't make the call unless your sure. It didn't mean you put your whistle away and let anything go. I'd say the problem is a lack of game management abilities. It's a light touch. If you do it right no one is sure you did anything at all. NHL reffing quality has fallen so far since the 80s and 90s. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I just honestly think they aren't very good.

[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2022 12:40]

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802814 is a reply to message #802813 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
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For example this is how aware and observant NHL refs are. Pretty bad when the commentators can figure it out but they can't.


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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802815 is a reply to message #802813 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802817 is a reply to message #802815 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802819 is a reply to message #802817 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

And if you neuter the refs you also keep costs down. A bunch or hungry and disposable employees who are rightfully afraid to stand out to much... the future is now!

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802820 is a reply to message #802817 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

If it's indeed true that the refs aren't very good, then just call the rule book. Don't interpret the rules or make judgement calls, just call the rules. There will be a hell of a lot of penalties to start but eventually they will adjust. Coaches will cry big time but if their players hacks the guy in the shin pads or the stick, whether it's a baseball swing or a small tap, it's still a slash and by the rule book, not allowed.

I think what most fans hate the most is the inconsistency. On one play you will see a player hack the stick out of a guys hand stopping a scoring chance and not get called, the next play a player will give a guy a love tap in the shin pads as he passes him and the arm is up. SO just call the rules to the letter and if someone complains, just point to the book.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802821 is a reply to message #802820 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
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Location: Southern AB
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

If it's indeed true that the refs aren't very good, then just call the rule book. Don't interpret the rules or make judgement calls, just call the rules. There will be a hell of a lot of penalties to start but eventually they will adjust. Coaches will cry big time but if their players hacks the guy in the shin pads or the stick, whether it's a baseball swing or a small tap, it's still a slash and by the rule book, not allowed.

I think what most fans hate the most is the inconsistency. On one play you will see a player hack the stick out of a guys hand stopping a scoring chance and not get called, the next play a player will give a guy a love tap in the shin pads as he passes him and the arm is up. SO just call the rules to the letter and if someone complains, just point to the book.

All rules are need to be judged so how do you remove judgement calls. You can't. If you want consistency. Go back to one ref games. Get rid of half the worst. Can't get consistency with two different standards on what's acceptable. I'm sure players would take a few missed calls over not knowing what the standard is. In the end that's consistency. You know what a ref will let go and what he won't.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802822 is a reply to message #802821 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

If it's indeed true that the refs aren't very good, then just call the rule book. Don't interpret the rules or make judgement calls, just call the rules. There will be a hell of a lot of penalties to start but eventually they will adjust. Coaches will cry big time but if their players hacks the guy in the shin pads or the stick, whether it's a baseball swing or a small tap, it's still a slash and by the rule book, not allowed.

I think what most fans hate the most is the inconsistency. On one play you will see a player hack the stick out of a guys hand stopping a scoring chance and not get called, the next play a player will give a guy a love tap in the shin pads as he passes him and the arm is up. SO just call the rules to the letter and if someone complains, just point to the book.

All rules are need to be judged so how do you remove judgement calls. You can't. If you want consistency. Go back to one ref games. Get rid of half the worst. Can't get consistency with two different standards on what's acceptable. I'm sure players would take a few missed calls over not knowing what the standard is. In the end that's consistency. You know what a ref will let go and what he won't.

I don't agree.

If a player has the puck, a dman comes from behind, stick parallel to the ice and rams his stick into the guys back crumpling him to the ice, that's a crosscheck.

If a player is standing near the goal, a dman comes from behind, stick parallel to the ice and gives the guy a shot in the back with his stick, that's a cross check. We see that happen all the time. The old school boys call it "Battling".

Now one of them is a harder shot than the other but they are both still crosschecks whether you crumple the guy to the ice or not. The judgement right now is the refs deciding which one to call and which one to let go. They are both still penalties according to the rule. So if you just call the rules as they are written up meaning if you put your stick in the guys back its a penalty regardless of how hard you hit him, you get consistency.

If you trip a guy whether it stops a goal or not, call the trip.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Colorado (Game #63) [message #802827 is a reply to message #802822 ]
Wed, 23 March 2022 15:03 Go to previous message
Babaganoosh2.0 is currently offline Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
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Location: Southern AB
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 14:04

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 13:12

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 23 March 2022 12:37

I just honestly think they aren't very good.

I agree with this entirely.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it seems like they're cycling through refs and linesmen at an incredible rate now. Maybe the league just got too big and I stopped paying attention but I barely know anyone in stripes now.


I think part of that lack of knowledge of refs is by design. The league has done what they can to make refs not stand out. Eliminating jerseys, changing when they announce the referees for the night. The more anonymous they can make them, the less scrutiny they get.

That and I think they had a significant cohort that all retired over a relatively short period, which meant that all the old personalities are gone and gone fast. Makes it a bit harder.

If it's indeed true that the refs aren't very good, then just call the rule book. Don't interpret the rules or make judgement calls, just call the rules. There will be a hell of a lot of penalties to start but eventually they will adjust. Coaches will cry big time but if their players hacks the guy in the shin pads or the stick, whether it's a baseball swing or a small tap, it's still a slash and by the rule book, not allowed.

I think what most fans hate the most is the inconsistency. On one play you will see a player hack the stick out of a guys hand stopping a scoring chance and not get called, the next play a player will give a guy a love tap in the shin pads as he passes him and the arm is up. SO just call the rules to the letter and if someone complains, just point to the book.

All rules are need to be judged so how do you remove judgement calls. You can't. If you want consistency. Go back to one ref games. Get rid of half the worst. Can't get consistency with two different standards on what's acceptable. I'm sure players would take a few missed calls over not knowing what the standard is. In the end that's consistency. You know what a ref will let go and what he won't.

I don't agree.

If a player has the puck, a dman comes from behind, stick parallel to the ice and rams his stick into the guys back crumpling him to the ice, that's a crosscheck.

If a player is standing near the goal, a dman comes from behind, stick parallel to the ice and gives the guy a shot in the back with his stick, that's a cross check. We see that happen all the time. The old school boys call it "Battling".

Now one of them is a harder shot than the other but they are both still crosschecks whether you crumple the guy to the ice or not. The judgement right now is the refs deciding which one to call and which one to let go. They are both still penalties according to the rule. So if you just call the rules as they are written up meaning if you put your stick in the guys back its a penalty regardless of how hard you hit him, you get consistency.

If you trip a guy whether it stops a goal or not, call the trip.


Hockey is pussified enough as it is. Your idea would result either in a powerplay fest at best or completely tepid hockey at worse. There used to be a standard and working relationship the players had with the refs. They knew what they could get away with and what would be called on a individual basis. It worked good for a long time. Until the NHL started micro managing it that is.



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