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Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem [message #823875 is a reply to message #823872 ]	Tue, 23 May 2023 11:01

Kr55
Messages: 9805
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:39

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 May 2023 09:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 May 2023 08:35

I thought I'd seen max crazy when a Leon trade was floated out there but then the crazy gets doubled down with trading Skinner.

Even if he isn't able to be your starter, he's already shown he can be an extremely good back up. Gone are the days where you have 1 guy playing 65+ games and all your need your back up to do is play the odd back to back and start maybe once every 2 weeks. In today's NHL you need your back up to be able to play 30-35 games. If the expectation is your starter wins 2/3 of his 50 starts, then to have a chance to be a good team, your back up needs to win at least 1/2 of his starts. So you need a legit GOOD goalie as your back up. At 2.6 mill, if Skinner is your back up, that's not a bad contract.

I wish I could trust this org to make a well educated call on goaltending. We don't even seem willing to mix things up in the coaching department after over a decade of seeing goalies have their games decay once they are on the NHL roster. We seemed to make a bad misread of Campbell last summer. We can't even tell which goalie is rolling or had zero confidence.

I'd be cool trading Skinner at a high IF I had any faith this org could identify a low cost replacement. I don't know what magic Vegas is pulling to have Adin Hill as their 3rd goalie that can come in and outplay everyone, but ... I want that lol.

Skinner still had potential I think. Some big improvements needed in his game. I think the talking heads were right that teams realized how little he uses his stick, so they started feeling like they could hold onto pucks and make moves easily in close on him (one D pair in particular constantly abandoning the area around our net obviously helped with this too). His confidence clearly needs some hardening and how his 2nd/3rd efforts on saves vanishes when he's not feeling it. Lateral movement was an issue too. Not a goalie expert, but if you think that stuff is hard to just all fix in the short term, maybe you do need to sell high on him. Clearly there are lots of goalies capable of stellar play out there to be had. Some teams seem to keep on finding them for cheap. Can we though? Not hopeful.

The problem is, who are you getting that is better than Skinner, that you know is better and is cheaper? That's the problem.

My argument against the trade is any trade has to be a win for the Oilers based on where they are. To win a trade for the Oilers, they have to be getting back a play right now at a high level player that is productive right now and will be for multiple years and who's cheaper cap wise for what is going out. So any trade for Skinner won't involve a better goalie back unless that goalie costs way more money or you are getting a futeres goalie who is less proven than Skinner. So if you trade him for whatever package, you have to find a replacement even if that's just a back up and I don't think you can replace Skinners ability as a back up at the price point in the UFA market.

For sure that is the problem, finding quality goalies. There are teams that seem to do it well, we just got goalied by a team that everyone thought would collapse this season without a legit starter. Their 3rd string guy ends up stonewalling us and vastly outplaying our "starter".

We are most definitely not one of teams able to find good goalies, and I don't see signs this org is improving or even trying to improve in that area. A revamp of our goalie coaching side would be a nice sign, but maybe that's not even happening, Dustin Schwartz 4LIFE.

Being consistently bad at evaluating/improving at a position that in many years is one of the top reasons teams go on long playoff runs is something that needs to be fixed though. Just playing with a time bomb if we can't do it. Especially if the coach can't even tell that the guy he's fixated on starting has zero confidence.

Just to summarize, I think many teams could replace Skinner in a pretty passable way, for cheap. It's very bad that we all think the Oilers don't have that capability and that the org doesn't seem to be moving towards being the kind of team that could.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 10:57
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 19 May 2023 12:33
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:16
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:26
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:36
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 19 May 2023 14:02
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: K.McC#24 on Sun, 21 May 2023 13:56
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Ragnarok73 on Fri, 19 May 2023 12:52
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:22
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 19 May 2023 15:41
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Fri, 19 May 2023 16:14
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Skookum Jim on Sat, 20 May 2023 01:49
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: nullterm on Sat, 20 May 2023 13:28
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Sun, 21 May 2023 16:13
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Sun, 21 May 2023 11:10
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Skookum Jim on Sun, 21 May 2023 21:44
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Sun, 21 May 2023 17:11
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Sun, 21 May 2023 21:14
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rowan Oil Fielding on Mon, 22 May 2023 16:32
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Mon, 22 May 2023 22:11
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Mon, 22 May 2023 23:40
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Mike on Tue, 23 May 2023 06:30
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 08:35
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Tue, 23 May 2023 09:48
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:39
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:01
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:09
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:03
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 23 May 2023 19:02
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 09:52
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:23
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:55
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:06
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:23
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:32
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:09
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:30
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:26
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 13:17
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: tardigrade81 on Wed, 31 May 2023 12:06
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 31 May 2023 12:56
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:55
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:05
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:23
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:38
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 15:36
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 23 May 2023 19:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: smyth260 on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:06
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:32
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Jay on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:58
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:18
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:31
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:31
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 16:00
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 23 May 2023 19:53
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 00:17
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 08:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 09:48
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:16
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:25
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:34
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:44
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 11:08
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 11:26
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 11:47
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 12:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 12:58
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 13:50
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 14:55
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:17
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:23
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:01
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:44
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:52
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:05
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:19
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:58
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 22:15
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Ragnarok73 on Wed, 24 May 2023 22:39
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 22:55
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Jay on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:43
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 25 May 2023 09:39
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Wed, 24 May 2023 17:14
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 25 May 2023 10:35
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rutuu on Thu, 25 May 2023 15:08
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 25 May 2023 15:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rutuu on Thu, 25 May 2023 18:07
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 23 May 2023 19:10
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rowan Oil Fielding on Wed, 24 May 2023 09:45
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 17:36
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rutuu on Wed, 24 May 2023 18:15
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 25 May 2023 09:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Xombie on Thu, 25 May 2023 23:06
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 08:25
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Fri, 26 May 2023 08:28
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 08:46
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Fri, 26 May 2023 09:54
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 10:54
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Goose on Fri, 26 May 2023 10:24
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 11:05
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Goose on Fri, 26 May 2023 11:15
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 12:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Mike on Fri, 26 May 2023 13:36
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Fri, 26 May 2023 14:35
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 30 May 2023 14:13
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Tue, 30 May 2023 14:37
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 30 May 2023 14:46
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Tue, 30 May 2023 14:49
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 30 May 2023 16:18
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 30 May 2023 15:57
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 30 May 2023 15:04
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 30 May 2023 16:01
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Xombie on Fri, 26 May 2023 15:34

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