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Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem [message #823870 is a reply to message #823868 ]	Tue, 23 May 2023 10:23

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 23 May 2023 09:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 23 May 2023 08:35

I thought I'd seen max crazy when a Leon trade was floated out there but then the crazy gets doubled down with trading Skinner.

Even if he isn't able to be your starter, he's already shown he can be an extremely good back up. Gone are the days where you have 1 guy playing 65+ games and all your need your back up to do is play the odd back to back and start maybe once every 2 weeks. In today's NHL you need your back up to be able to play 30-35 games. If the expectation is your starter wins 2/3 of his 50 starts, then to have a chance to be a good team, your back up needs to win at least 1/2 of his starts. So you need a legit GOOD goalie as your back up. At 2.6 mill, if Skinner is your back up, that's not a bad contract.

No RDO, neither of those ideas are crazy. Crazy is deciding with absolute certainty that the Oilers, who have simply not been good enough for the last 4 playoffs, should be sent back on the ice in 5 months with nothing more than a vague hope that we'll get a different result. Now is the time to at least think about crazy alternatives. At some point it may be decided that staying the course is the prudent decision, but for now we should be looking at all options and idea for improvement. What if a better team could be created by selling off a player at a premium right now? What's the problem in a mental exercise trying to figure out player value?

Like I said before. You lose a Leon traded 100 times out of 100 in my opinion.

The point of a trade is to improve the team. Leon is a 50+ goal, 115+ pt, every year big, strong, good skating center that skates well, wins draws, kills penalties, elite PP player, drives a line and elevates his team mates. That's not a bias opinion by me, that's what he does and has the stats to back it up. He's beloved by his team, works his ass off in the offseason. He plays hurt, he shows up in the playoffs. He does all of this for 8.5 mill which is probably 4 mill under what he should make. AND he's in his prime years. So what he did this year and the previous ones are totals he will put up for many years to come. To replace not only his goals and points, his ability as a center, his ability on the special teams, you need 2 guys minimum. You aren't getting 2 guys who can maybe produce what Leon does AND do all the other things for 8.5 mill. You aren't and in all likelihood, you don't get the same quality of play.

No team that is looking to bring in Leon to put them over the top, is going to give you a bunch of right now real good roster players because it will dilute their team. If they did, all they did was bring in Leon to go play on a worse team than before the trade. So you MIGHT get 1 decent roster player, then a bunch of picks and prospects with the hope that the prospect might be good in a couple of years to make the trade "a win". But when you are in a cup win mode, dumping players for futures is stupid. If you trade him to a bad team, you are getting a bad teams crap back or again a bunch of picks and prospects hoping that in a few years, those work out. Either way, if the goal is to win the cup in the next 2 seasons, you lose a Leon trade every single time. For a site and people that continuously bring up bad trades where the Oilers lost, I am baffled how people in here would float out a trade that in all likelihood they lose badly.

When it comes to Skinner. They have a homegrown, loves the market, under contract for 3 seasons goalie who just played 50 games for you and played at an above average level. So even if he drops off a little next year, at the worse is a very good backup easily capable of giving you 35 starts of decent goaltending which in the NHL, every team desperately needs. Good goaltending is a struggle for most NHL teams and you have a guy who can give you good goaltending at minimum as a back up signed for an affordable deal. So again, you lose this trade in all likelihood very badly because goalies don't have the same value as position players in trades generally AND then you have to go find a guy to replace him which in a league that lacks good goalies, is hard to do.

If you want to make a change to the core to shake it up with a player coming off a HIGH season. Trade Nuge. Sure his playoffs wasn't the greatest but he had 11 pts in 12 games, so on paper, it doesn't look that bad. He can play center or wing. He can play all your special teams and do a good job, PP especially. Good skater, good guy, never complains. Just scored 37 goals, 104 pts (totals he won't ever come close too again probably but don't tell anyone that). He's got a longer term deal but at 5.125 mill for a legit top 6 forward capable of scoring 25-30, 60+ pts. It's a bargain deal. Would it be a loss to the team? Yes but when you have McD and Leon, if you take out this one off season, you can replace what Nuge normally scores fairly easily. You can find a 25 goal scorer for what Nuge makes or less when you have one of the Oilers 2 centers feeding him pucks. You can give Nuge's PK time to someone else and not have it fall off. Not that the Oilers PK is that great.

So if you want to shock the team to it's core, that would be a bold trade where you don't automatically lose it. You can win a Nuge trade.

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2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 10:57
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 19 May 2023 12:33
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:16
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:26
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:36
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 19 May 2023 14:02
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: K.McC#24 on Sun, 21 May 2023 13:56
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Ragnarok73 on Fri, 19 May 2023 12:52
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:22
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 19 May 2023 15:41
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Fri, 19 May 2023 16:14
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Skookum Jim on Sat, 20 May 2023 01:49
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: nullterm on Sat, 20 May 2023 13:28
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Sun, 21 May 2023 16:13
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Sun, 21 May 2023 11:10
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Skookum Jim on Sun, 21 May 2023 21:44
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Sun, 21 May 2023 17:11
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Sun, 21 May 2023 21:14
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rowan Oil Fielding on Mon, 22 May 2023 16:32
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Mon, 22 May 2023 22:11
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Mon, 22 May 2023 23:40
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Mike on Tue, 23 May 2023 06:30
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 08:35
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Tue, 23 May 2023 09:48
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:39
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:01
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:09
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:03
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 23 May 2023 19:02
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 09:52
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:23
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:55
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:06
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:23
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:32
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:09
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:30
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:26
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 23 May 2023 13:17
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: tardigrade81 on Wed, 31 May 2023 12:06
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 31 May 2023 12:56
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:55
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:05
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:23
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:38
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 15:36
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 23 May 2023 19:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: smyth260 on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:06
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 10:32
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Jay on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 11:58
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:18
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:31
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Tue, 23 May 2023 12:31
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 23 May 2023 16:00
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 23 May 2023 19:53
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 00:17
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 08:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 09:48
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:16
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:25
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:34
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 10:44
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 11:08
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 11:26
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 11:47
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 12:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 12:58
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 13:50
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 14:55
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:17
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:23
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:01
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:44
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 15:52
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:05
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:19
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:58
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 24 May 2023 22:15
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Ragnarok73 on Wed, 24 May 2023 22:39
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Adam on Wed, 24 May 2023 22:55
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Jay on Wed, 24 May 2023 16:43
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 25 May 2023 09:39
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Wed, 24 May 2023 17:14
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 25 May 2023 10:35
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rutuu on Thu, 25 May 2023 15:08
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 25 May 2023 15:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rutuu on Thu, 25 May 2023 18:07
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 23 May 2023 19:10
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rowan Oil Fielding on Wed, 24 May 2023 09:45
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Wed, 24 May 2023 17:36
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Rutuu on Wed, 24 May 2023 18:15
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 25 May 2023 09:42
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Xombie on Thu, 25 May 2023 23:06
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 08:25
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Kr55 on Fri, 26 May 2023 08:28
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 08:46
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Fri, 26 May 2023 09:54
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 10:54
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Goose on Fri, 26 May 2023 10:24
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 11:05
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Goose on Fri, 26 May 2023 11:15
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 26 May 2023 12:21
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Mike on Fri, 26 May 2023 13:36
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Fri, 26 May 2023 14:35
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 30 May 2023 14:13
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Tue, 30 May 2023 14:37
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 30 May 2023 14:46
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Dragon_Matt on Tue, 30 May 2023 14:49
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: inverno76 on Tue, 30 May 2023 16:18
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 30 May 2023 15:57
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 30 May 2023 15:04
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 30 May 2023 16:01
Re: 2022-23 Post Mortem	By: Xombie on Fri, 26 May 2023 15:34

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