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NHL » Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena

Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena [message #823733 is a reply to message #823729 ]	Thu, 18 May 2023 11:05

Adam
Messages: 6911
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

stemhovlichski wrote on Wed, 17 May 2023 21:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 May 2023 16:32

A couple thoughts:

1) why would they vote down an arena with no public funds? That seemed to me a pretty good deal for the city. I don't know why it even had to be referendumed - just seems like something designed for any large project to be NIMBYed out of existence.

2) I don't give a flying...friend...about another Canadian team. It's just one more group for me to hate. I don't care if it stays in Arizona, or if some other city in the US gets it. I'll never understand why so many Canadian fans are so up in arms about warmer places getting hockey teams, or about what the attendance is for teams that they otherwise don't care about. It doesn't really bother me at all.

I do think the University rink is a bit of a joke though...at least they don't have the curtained off dressing rooms any more.

Tempe development info: https://kjzz.org/content/1844391/what-tempe-voters-need-know -about-props-301-302-303-coyotes-arena-and-entertainment

Looks like Tempe voted on facts not fantasy. They have Proposition votes in the States because the public believes in democracy and holds their politicians accountable to the point they can recall their elected officials if they feel the need. You want the job, you do what the public expects of you right or wrong. Spending public money on private deals makes much less sense in AZ where income tax is low and any losses would have to made up with property and/or sales tax increases which are political suicide with the retirement population.

Edmonton has had mayors and councils who made downtown Edmonton easy for big business and developers to have their way. The Oilers have a sweetheart deal of an arena. Katz Group doesn't have to compete with Northlands anymore because the City nuked that organization. Qualico is developing the Station Lands as fast as possible right now too. Property taxes keep going up to the limit to pay for it all too. Mandel also worked hard to shut down the Municipal Airport here so big buildings could go up up up. There's never really been a public accounting of the true cost of the arena here, so we don't know if it's been a good deal or not. Edmonton City Centre is a ghost mall, downtown is a zombie apocalypse, the area around the arena is a set for Breaking Bad, but, hey, if you were watching the playoffs you saw what a great deal a condo in Ice District is for $850k including parking and a couple of Oilers' tickets thrown in. I hope downtown and area revitalizes once the developments start filling up, but for now it's depressing.

Reading through that argument against, it sounds like it was framed that this development will make a rich guy richer because he gets to develop a new community, and that some of the condos might go to rich guys because they might sell for a million dollars each.

Considering the average home in Edmonton is almost half a million bucks, that doesn't sound too outlandish at all actually for penthouse suites, but I guess that's a matter of perspective.

As expected, there's a bunch of NIMBY mumbo jumbo in there - like the bookstore owner who doesn't want events near her store because it causes congestion and parking issues.

The fact is, anytime anything gets developed, a big developer stands to make money. If they didn't, it wouldn't happen.

As for some of your other stuff - I mean, Northlands wasn't a serious competitor to Katz Group. It was an influence peddler that impacted Alberta politics for decades. I don't think anyone should mourn their demise. I'm no Katz Group fan, and I think there was some problematic things around the arena development. I think there's been lots of problematic development projects in almost every city over the years, but I think it still is a positive development. And I do think that leaving the Oilers in the old Coliseum wasn't a real option. At some point it had to go. There's a legitimate debate about whether the deal the city got was the best possible, but I'm glad it didn't go to the voters because I think the chances of ANY large project getting vetoed then is high for so many reasons - and ultimately if you never develop anything, then no one is drawn to your city and you lose services, entertainment options, jobs and talent.

For what it's worth, recall voting is impractical, costly and mostly abused. While it makes some sense to have methods of impeachment for elected officials (Mayor Bill Hawreluk was impeached multiple times in Edmonton's history!) simply allowing for a petition to create run-off elections again and again isn't an effective use of taxpayer dollars. It's not like people are elected for life. If you don't like how someone has performed as your elected official, you'll have another shot at replacing them in under 5 years. I've been pretty clear that there's a lot of elected officials that I'm not a fan of - however they got elected, and short of criminal or corrupt activity, I don't believe that they need to be removed from office - or to just undergo countless mini-elections because 10,000 people signed a stupid petition.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Skookum Jim on Tue, 16 May 2023 22:39
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 16 May 2023 23:35
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Mike on Wed, 17 May 2023 05:46
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 17 May 2023 09:20
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Mike on Wed, 17 May 2023 10:15
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 17 May 2023 10:17
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Skookum Jim on Wed, 17 May 2023 12:20
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 17 May 2023 13:26
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Steve on Wed, 17 May 2023 10:27
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: kungpaobenji27 on Wed, 17 May 2023 11:03
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 17 May 2023 11:14
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: kungpaobenji27 on Wed, 17 May 2023 11:25
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: smyth260 on Wed, 17 May 2023 12:37
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Skookum Jim on Wed, 17 May 2023 13:06
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 17 May 2023 13:28
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Dragon_Matt on Wed, 17 May 2023 14:37
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Ragnarok73 on Wed, 17 May 2023 15:33
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Adam on Wed, 17 May 2023 16:34
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Adam on Wed, 17 May 2023 16:32
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: smyth260 on Wed, 17 May 2023 17:17
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: stemhovlichski on Wed, 17 May 2023 21:46
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: kungpaobenji27 on Thu, 18 May 2023 09:09
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Adam on Thu, 18 May 2023 11:05
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 May 2023 10:29
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Adam on Thu, 18 May 2023 11:06
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 May 2023 11:38
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 18 May 2023 12:28
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 May 2023 12:40
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 18 May 2023 13:02
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 May 2023 13:11
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 18 May 2023 14:16
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Mike on Fri, 19 May 2023 05:32
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Adam on Thu, 18 May 2023 14:25
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Kr55 on Wed, 17 May 2023 18:26
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 18 May 2023 21:28
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Kr55 on Thu, 18 May 2023 21:32
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 00:16
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 19 May 2023 14:10
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: g2k on Wed, 17 May 2023 20:36
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Rowan Oil Fielding on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:27
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 13:41
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 19 May 2023 14:36
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 19 May 2023 15:39
Re: Coyotes lose referendum Vote on New Arena	By: g2k on Fri, 19 May 2023 19:24

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