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Oilers » Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)

Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794682 is a reply to message #794679 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 15:22

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3798
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:12

Goose wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:59

I know they don't matter to you Adam. You are what, an arm chair GM, know it all fan that does whatever non NHL, non hockey related job you do for a living who posts on a fan site. Those things seem to matter to any coach or former coach you hear talk about the game. Any ex. NHL player who is a commentator or media guy. But what the hell do they know, they only work/played in the NHL while you post from your computer somewhere.

Here's the stat line for Shore and Benson.

Shore: 8 GP, 1g, 2 pts, -3. 5 shots, 10 hits, 5 block shots, 53.7% on faceoffs. Killed penalties on the #4 ranked PK in the NHL. Plays center or wing.

Benson: 5GP 0 pts, -2, 3 shots, 7 hits. No blocks. Only a winger, plays zero special teams.

Now I am just a fan that played some hockey when I was a kid. I watch a lot of hockey on TV and go to as many games as I can. I try to follow stats and read up on things as much as I can or time allows. I have an opinion on a lot of things hockey related and the Oilers but I do nothing hockey related for my job and never will. I like to think that I know some things but I am not so arrogant that I think I know more and am smarter when it comes to what it takes and what is important to be an NHL player and contribute something to go against what people who make a living working in hockey or used to play the game.

With all that being said. With my limited knowledge as a fan and what it takes to be a pro hockey player and contribute in a pro game. When I see a player who has zeros for just about ALL of the stats you can have in a NHL game that I could look up quickly so it basically looks like he almost did nothing on the ice at all to contribute anything to the team winning in 5 games. Then compare them to another player who played similar games and I all kinds of usable stats that would have helped the team make plays and win games, not to mention he plays multiple positions, good on faceoffs and chips in on a really good special teams. I really have a hard time buying in that the team is better off having Shore sit out when healthy in place of Benson.

To be fair, Benson has been throwing hits at a higher rate than Shore this year, he's just played less minutes.

Shore is also averaging 1 PK shift per game (48 seconds), so I don't know that we can give him a ton of credit for the PKs success.

In terms of faceoffs, that does seem to be a plus for Shore, but because he plays so little, he's only averaging about 5 per game and has won 3 more faceoffs than he's lost this season. Again not something that I think is moving the needle in terms of wins and losses.

On the other hand, Shore is a guy that has been on the ice for 20 more goals against than goals for over the past 3 seasons. That is something that moves the needle. He's literally one of the worst players in the league over the past 3 seasons in 5x5 GF%.

I'm not saying that Tyler Benson is the answer. But given his success in the AHL, and the fact that we know the Oilers bottom 6 is not good, I don't see why they wouldn't give him more of a push.

So what are you saying to me, that nothing Shore did has any value what so ever?

I am not saying Shore is the key to the Oilers PK. He's not. But the point is he's played on it and contributed something to it. Whether it's 1 shift or 5, who cares. The point is, he CAN do it and he's done it. The Oilers deploy a fair amount of top 6 guys in the PK. Hyman, Nuge, Yamo. But if one of the Oilers main PK guys goes down in a game, (it does happen), or they need a break, he could be used on the PK and most likely can because he's done it before successfully.

You downplay his faceoffs because in your estimate he doesn't do enough. The Oilers don't play their 4th line a hell of a lot. So he doesn't get the opportunity to do them a lot. BUT. HE CAN DO THEM. He's at 53.66% this year and was 52.78% last season. So he's shown an ability to win a faceoff. The Oilers lost an OT game last playoff right off a faceoff loss because Khaira sucked at them. So if the Oilers get an icing and the 4th line is out there, there's a good chance Shore could win you a draw and get you out of your zone. Benson can't do that.

I am no a Shore lover but in the just over 8 mins of ice time he gets, his stat line says he can do something for your team. He's scored a goal, blocked some shots, won some draws. Benson has ZERO'S in his stat line. ZERO'S in very similar ice time. Take away the 48 seconds of PK time you basically think is meaningless and the 2 guys almost play exactly the same time on ice. Shore as some stats, Benson has ZERO.

In my opinion, you can't have a player no matter how much ice time they get contribute absolutely nothing on the ice. So if you only get 7 mins of ice time, then try to make that 7 mins as impactful as you can. DO SOMETHING when you are out there. All I hear over and over again about Benson is "Well he scored in the AHL". SO WHAT. There are 100's if not 1000's of players over the years who scored lots of points in the AHL and did nothing in the NHL. Benson has to go out there on the ice and freaking do something. He's got 3 shots on goal in 5 games. Play with some desperation.

Answer me this.

What exactly other than having good AHL stats has Benson done to date? I have nothing against the guy. The bottom 6 could use better players but is it not the job of the actual player to seize opportunity? Benson is in the game tonight. So if he puts up zeros again, who's fault is that other than his own?

Once again, you're focused on things that don't really matter, for instance, faceoff percentage.

Yes, 52% is greater than 50%, so if he takes 100 faceoffs, he'll win 4 more than he loses. That's not actually very significant. Khaira was 45% last year (55% this year, so maybe doesn't suck as much as you think), so it wasn't exactly a foregone conclusion he'd lose a critical draw, and even if he was 55%, he still could have lost that particular draw and got scored on.

One might point out that if the coaches were concerned about that, then it's a coaching error to have him take a critical defensive zone start, but that's a different question.

Shore getting a miniscule number of face-offs doesn't trump the fact that the guy has been caved in for goals against and shots against for the last two seasons. We know what we're getting and it ain't good. Even if it looks like he's REALLY TRYING out there.

As Goose says, Benson has shown he can play at other levels, so let's see what he can do here. It's not like the guys playing ahead of him are killing it. If they were, then I'm fine leaving him in the pressbox, but our bottom six is the worst in the league so let's mix it up, shall we?

As for your point about trusting the hockey guys because they're in the industry - it's unbelievable that any Oilers fan can say that after the last couple decades here. It's pretty clear that most posters in Oilfans could have done a better job than most of the GMs the team has had. I mean, when Tambellini is in the mix for best GM of the past two decades, it's pretty mind-boggling if you're still blindly following along and trusting these guys.

For coaches, possibly the best post-MacT coach was Tom Renney who's teams finished at the very bottom of the league going 57-85-22 in his two years.

You should probably not put blind trust in the hockey guys running this organization ever. Even if they "played the game".

Well Benson has played 5 games so far and put up zeros. He's playing again tonight.

He doesn't play center what so ever. I know that all NHL coaches and ex players are stupid and Adam is smart. But I assume you aren't demoting one of the top 6 wingers in Hyman, JP, Nuge or Yamo for a guy who scored lots of points at the AHL? Am I wrong again in assuming you wouldn't do that?

For the bottom 6, as I said he doesn't play center, so there is only 4 spots left. I assume you aren't playing an AHL player over Foegele or Kassian, 2 proven NHL bottom 6 guys. They would be on most teams 3rd line vs the jury is out on Benson if he would make anyone team.

I personally do not think Benson is a better NHL player than any of the top 6 wingers of the 2 wingers on the 3rd line. So he's down to 4th line mins. I have no issue trying him on the 4th line. Now of course Adam, you are all knowing and smarter than all coaches, GM's and ex players and all fans, so maybe there is some brand new rules out there that the NHL is implementing that gives credit for AHL scoring in the NHL that I or no one is aware about yet. But if there isn't, at some point Benson has to do more than just score at the AHL level to warrant being in the NHL every night.

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Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: OilFans on Thu, 18 November 2021 02:00
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Oscargasm on Thu, 18 November 2021 08:17
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 November 2021 08:36
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: GabbyDugan on Thu, 18 November 2021 09:17
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: NetBOG on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:00
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:40
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: CrudeRemarks on Thu, 18 November 2021 08:53
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Oscargasm on Thu, 18 November 2021 09:12
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:46
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Adam on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:57
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 November 2021 11:09
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 November 2021 11:11
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Adam on Thu, 18 November 2021 11:20
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 November 2021 11:59
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Goose on Thu, 18 November 2021 13:22
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:12
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Adam on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:36
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 18 November 2021 15:22
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Adam on Thu, 18 November 2021 17:16
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Dragon_Matt on Fri, 19 November 2021 10:59
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Adam on Fri, 19 November 2021 11:19
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Dragon_Matt on Fri, 19 November 2021 11:25
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Goose on Thu, 18 November 2021 17:29
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: Kr55 on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:47
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: NCREDiBLE on Thu, 18 November 2021 15:50
Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16)	By: inverno76 on Thu, 18 November 2021 18:58

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