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Oilers » Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)

Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28) [message #779301 is a reply to message #779293 ]	Fri, 12 March 2021 13:34

Kr55
Messages: 9882
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 12 March 2021 12:40

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 12 March 2021 13:13

Adam wrote on Fri, 12 March 2021 11:05

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 12 March 2021 10:14

K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 12 March 2021 09:41

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 20:41

Just don't think that's true in terms of generating offense. Athletically he was certainly not spectacular, but he has always been a smart and talented player that plays an efficient game. He knows how to do things that lead to offensive chances. Nuge is far less able to create offense 5v5, and there is a whole career of his stats that back that up. Nuge needs 1 less opposing player on the ice to look like a self sufficient competent playmaker.

Jaysus Kr, you have to be trolling here. Who would trade RNH for Eberle straight up even at Eberle's lower AAV and if Eberle were younger? I wouldn't.

Hard to say. Look at where the islanders are in the standings. Their best expected goals for player is...Eberle, by a few % (62.81%. Barzal is 58.88%).

If we want to have McDrai each playing C, I certainly would be open to an upgrade on the wing. Eberle is a better winger than Nuge, without a doubt. Gotta consider age and versatility of course, if McDavid or Drai are injured, Nuge is more useful then. Eberle likely starts falling off before Nuge. But right now, Eberle continues to be a better offensive hockey player and up in the air on the defensive side. Not much has been happening against with Eberle on the ice for the Islanders. Maybe that's Trotz and the system, but Eberle still stands out compared to his teammates.

Back when we were looking at trading one of Nuge/Hall/Ebs to try to improve the team, I think I was pretty honest about it here that Nuge was the guy that should go. We did the other 2, and many pathetic seasons followed as we just kept having to do McDrai on the same line to see any offense and with coaches scared to put the effort into figuring out how to get 2 lines going. Hard to blame them maybe because of how pitiful our winger situation was. And here we are again, full circle...bleh. Thank goodness for the north division at least.

I don't think I'd have traded Nugent-Hopkins for Eberle at any point in their careers, but I do think Eberle is badly underrated by Oilers fans. I think people have a hard time separating the results of bad teams with the good players on those teams. It doesn't help Eberle that he had a down season in his final year here and didn't have a huge production in the 2017 playoffs. He's shown since then that the narrative that he's not a playoff performer is total bunk. Is he a perfect player? No - but then who is? He's a very helpful player and while he's getting a little longer in the tooth now, he is still probably better than any right wing on our roster - at least at putting up points. Maybe Puljujarvi or Yamamoto can get there at some point, but at their age, Eberle was a more effective and impactful player.

Nuge is more valuable because he plays C for sure. With our current roster though, if you just swap Nuge and Eberle in our lineup, I think you could argue it could lead to more wins. Nuge hasn't really found his place on this roster this year, aside from being on the left wall on the PP which Eberle would do just as well at.

I dont think RNH is Bergeron but he is one of the teams more consistently reliable two way forwards. On a team that struggles mightily to defend I dont think that can be overlooked.
RNH is a swiss army knife right now on a team with a LOT of holes to fill.
In addition to the overall 2 way hockey he can kill penalties when needed, play on a line with tough matchups, is an overlooked key to a very successful powerplay, can play wing or center and is a senior leader on the team.
I like Eberle but you cant just compare offensive numbers and line driving anecdotal evidence when making a point that team would be better in trading for Ebs.
Eberle, like Hall, made a convenient scapegoat, and both would make the team better right now as they play a position of need. I wouldnt trade RNH for either of them straight up.

Moving RNH for any one dimensional winger that only fills that role would be a pretty massive mistake.

Definitely agree that Nuge's versatility gives him value. I think a lot of my view of the Nuge right now is affected by how our coach has zero interest in playing him in the spot he gave arguably the best performance of his entire career 5v5, by a decent margin. If Nuge is never again allowed to play wing with Drai, I think his value really drops a lot for us.

I do still believe his defensive game is overrated and still largely fueled by a reputation that has been created around him. Much by coaches that like how hard he is trying to be better defensively, but usually the losses just kept piling up in the mean time while most of the rest of the lineup bleed goals. Good for him being one of the better in terrible lineups though. His shot suppression stats while on the ice have never been that good. He has his fair share of brain farts in his own end. He can't push the river offensively without a driver on his line either. There is a lot of results that argue against his Datsyuk-lite reputation. I appreciate his effort to try to be more responsible defensively, but I've felt for a long time that is a big reason he's killed his offensive game, and for not that much in return in being able to actually shut down opposition.

My view currently of Nuge is that his greatest value is as a winger with linemates that are strong offensive zone possession players. Framing his role, on a team that actually has a shot to win a cup, as a winger I think begs the question of how he compares to other wingers and the value of the cap space he seems to be commanding.

I'm not saying trade him straight up for Ebs either :) I totally recognize the value difference. Ebs is 3 years older. Nuge plays C and I think most certainly has more value around the league. And heck, if we just played him with Drai, maybe Nuge would be near Eberle's 5v5 production this year too. In his 35 5v5 mins with Drai he has 3 points vs the whole 6 points he has with McDavid in 331 minutes. Shame on Tippett letting that Nuge+Drai ice time happen. Better avoid it or people might start asking questions again. But, if Nuge isn't allowed to play wing with Drai, then I still think just swapping him right now with Eberle could result in a better team today, ignoring all value considerations of a trade and worse case scenarios with injuries, etc...

[Updated on: Fri, 12 March 2021 13:36]

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Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: OilFans on Wed, 10 March 2021 02:00
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 10 March 2021 06:50
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 10 March 2021 08:44
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: K.McC#24 on Wed, 10 March 2021 09:52
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Adam on Wed, 10 March 2021 09:26
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 10 March 2021 09:53
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: CrudeRemarks on Wed, 10 March 2021 10:19
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: K.McC#24 on Wed, 10 March 2021 10:24
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 10 March 2021 10:52
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Ragnarok73 on Wed, 10 March 2021 10:48
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 10 March 2021 10:53
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 10 March 2021 10:56
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 10 March 2021 10:59
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: inverno76 on Wed, 10 March 2021 14:03
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Adam on Wed, 10 March 2021 15:04
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Wed, 10 March 2021 15:12
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Adam on Wed, 10 March 2021 15:27
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Wed, 10 March 2021 15:30
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 10 March 2021 15:36
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 10 March 2021 16:28
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Adam on Wed, 10 March 2021 17:19
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 10 March 2021 17:29
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Adam on Wed, 10 March 2021 20:49
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 10 March 2021 20:52
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Wed, 10 March 2021 18:27
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: K.McC#24 on Thu, 11 March 2021 10:30
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Thu, 11 March 2021 10:47
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: K.McC#24 on Thu, 11 March 2021 12:52
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: jds308 on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:25
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Adam on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:29
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:41
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:27
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Gator21 on Thu, 11 March 2021 18:34
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Thu, 11 March 2021 20:41
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: K.McC#24 on Fri, 12 March 2021 09:41
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Fri, 12 March 2021 10:14
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Adam on Fri, 12 March 2021 11:05
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Fri, 12 March 2021 12:13
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Fri, 12 March 2021 12:39
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: PlusOne on Fri, 12 March 2021 12:40
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Fri, 12 March 2021 13:34
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: PlusOne on Fri, 12 March 2021 18:57
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Fri, 12 March 2021 21:10
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Goose on Fri, 12 March 2021 12:41
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Adam on Fri, 12 March 2021 13:41
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Fri, 12 March 2021 13:45
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Goose on Fri, 12 March 2021 14:09
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Kr55 on Fri, 12 March 2021 14:30
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 10 March 2021 17:37
Re: Pregame: Ottawa @ Edmonton (Game #28)	By: inverno76 on Thu, 11 March 2021 20:36

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