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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745507 is a reply to message #745496 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 16:55

K.McC#24
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Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

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Adam wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 13:47

JPro wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00

I completely agree that they could use an upgrade on Chiasson but you don't think Neal is a second line winger? As I said, he's got 10 - 20+ goal seasons. Nuge's boy Eberle doesn't have that. Even when he had Hall AND Eberle on his wing, the best he could muster was 56 pts. Who is this mythical winger for Nuge?

Neal was traded for Milan Lucic. I don't care how many 10+ goals he has had in the past, Neal is a straight up has-been. His good start was fun, but let's not hang our judgement on Nuge based off a guy that Calgary is still happy to be rid of despite having Lucic in return.

Playing second line to a team that has McDavid and Drai on the top line is a lot different than playing second line on most other teams given how our top line is going to be given more opportunities (such as playing 26 minutes a night!). Between mediocre linemates and the primo chances going to the top line, I'm not ready to stick it to Nuge yet. I'd reevaluate at Xmas.

As I said. For a good chunk of his career, Nuge had Eberle AND Hall on his wing and all he could muster was 56 pts. Hall was an all star and won an MVP. Those were 2 pretty damn good wingers and all he could put up was second line center numbers. Who are the Oilers supposed to get, Kucherov before Nuge can score at a decent rate?

I know this is me basically swearing but has it crossed anyone's mind that Nuge just isn't that good? I watched him in junior, I am a fan of his but at some point in my opinion, people need to realize that Nuge is nothing more than an OK 2nd line center who is a bit of a complimentary player.

I specifically said it wasn't time for a "I used to be a big Nuge fan, but" speech!

Let's look at Nuge's career:

2011-12 - As a rookie, Nugent-Hopkins plays 62 games, scoring 52 points. That put him 33rd in scoring for centers according to NHL.com, although there's some issues with that since they included among others, Jordan Eberle as a center. On a points per game basis, Nuge was 19th in the league (although the 18 above him still includes Eberle and Phil Kessel). So in this year, he produced like a middle of the road first line center. Pretty solid for a rookie!

2012-13 - Lockout shortened season, and Nuge was playing injured all season because Oilers. He tallied 24 points in 40 games, for 0.60 points per game. That put him 59th in points among centers (w/ errors) and 56th for points per game. Assume there's a few mistakes in there and while an injured 19 year old, he's a middle of the road 2nd line center.

2013-14 - 56 points in 80 games (30th) for 0.70 PPG (39th). So high end second line center or low end first line center.

2014-15 - 56 points in 76 games (29th) for 0.74 PPG (32nd). Last year before McDavid, so last time he's getting the prime spot on the team. He's a low end first line center.

2015-16 - Injuries again shorten his season. 34 points in 55 games. Sample size is too low to really compare on total point production, but he's in 99th place. Points per game, he's at 0.62 good for a tie for 60th. So low end 2nd line center in a year where he's playing 2nd line C and injured.

2016-17 - 43 points in 82 games (72nd) for 0.52 PPG (89th). By far his worst year. If all the years looked like this one, you'd have a good argument that he's not a great second line center.

2017-18 - 48 points in 62 games (64th) for 0.77 PPG (42nd). By golly, that sure looks like a good 2nd line center.

2018-19 - 69 points in 82 games (36th) for 0.84 PPG (42nd). Most years he'd be higher on the list with that production, but lots of guys with good campaigns last year. Again, high end 2nd line center.

So what does that look like for his career? 388 points in 549 games (28th over that span among "centers") and 44th in points per game at 0.71. Again - points to one of the better 2nd line centers in the league, despite playing for the worst team in the league over that span with a succession of mostly bad coaches, and some pretty poor linemates at times - especially since McDavid arrived and got the prime time.

I'd like him to generate more at even strength this year, but let's not kid ourselves - he's still a pretty good player. So it's okay to STILL be a Nuge fan, with no buts.

Good analysis, I'd be interested to know where there's a better 2nd line center to plug in there at that price point, that's not on an ELC.

I liked Jurco on that line better than Chaisson, to be honest, but that was just by eye. I'm not sure what the analytics were.

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Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: OilFans on Thu, 24 October 2019 03:00
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: WhoreableGuy on Thu, 24 October 2019 08:18
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Oscargasm on Thu, 24 October 2019 08:51
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: CrudeRemarks on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:00
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: CrudeRemarks on Fri, 25 October 2019 08:04
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Ragnarok73 on Fri, 25 October 2019 11:54
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:12
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:54
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 24 October 2019 10:59
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Goose on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:13
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:30
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Adam on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:51
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Adam on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:06
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: JPro on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:12
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 24 October 2019 13:47
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Adam on Thu, 24 October 2019 14:14
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 24 October 2019 14:32
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: overdue on Thu, 24 October 2019 15:45
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 24 October 2019 16:36
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: K.McC#24 on Thu, 24 October 2019 17:02
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Adam on Thu, 24 October 2019 17:23
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: K.McC#24 on Fri, 25 October 2019 12:27
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: K.McC#24 on Thu, 24 October 2019 16:55
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: PlusOne on Thu, 24 October 2019 19:01
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: K.McC#24 on Fri, 25 October 2019 12:32
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 24 October 2019 14:40
Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11)	By: Adam on Thu, 24 October 2019 15:10

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