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Re: New Arena construction! [message #652751 is a reply to message #652734 ]	Wed, 13 May 2015 16:33

NetBOG
Messages: 2862
Registered: January 2006
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Goose wrote on Wed, 13 May 2015 13:45

That's what I'm saying though, it already is coming from you. The CRL isn't some magic money-generating program. In order for it to do what it says, generate the funds to pay for the arena without affecting the general revenues/expenses of the City, then all of the extra taxes generated from the arena district needs to be revenue that would not have existed without the arena. And there's lots of evidence that that isn't the case. Just thinking about it logically, it makes sense. A business isn't going to suddenly move to Edmonton or hire a whole bunch of new people because the Oilers built a new arena. And there have been lots of studies that people have limited entertainment dollars to spend, and they end up spending them whether new sports arenas are built or not, so you're not generating a whole bunch of new spending because of the arena. You're just concentrating it in one area of the City.

A great example of this is Katz's new office tower inside the CRL. He has a deal with the City that will see 2/3 of all City employees move into his new tower. Those 2000 employees are currently housed in 9 buildings across downtown. So the value of Katz's tower in the CRL goes up and tax revenues in the CRL get a boost. But what happens to the property values of those 9 other buildings now that they have large vacancies? So tax revenue in other parts of the City goes down and the whole thing ends up basically being a wash. Which means that no new tax revenues for the City and the arena payment is basically paid for by existing revenues, meaning the residents of Edmonton are all on the hook.

And even if those other buildings do manage to fill their vacancies, it's a pretty big leap to suggest that they did so solely because the arena district somehow attracted new businesses to Edmonton.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/02/06/edmonton-employees-hou sed-by-katz-group-by-2016

You can make an argument that you are in favour of the City paying for the arena because you think it will be a great venue and worth the cost. City's build museums and art spaces and things like that all the time. Generally, they don't build them for the sole economic benefit of one person, but that's besides the point. But I don't think that anyone can seriously make the argument that the $300-ish million that the City is now contributing to this thing will somehow not cost the residents of Edmonton anything.

You mean articles like this:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/commercial-real-esta te/Dominion+Securities+moving+into/11052607/story.html?__lsa =073d-f6f4

which are massively slanted towards how great Katz is and how lucky we are that he acknowledges us, even though buried in the middle is this little tidbit:

Quote:

RBC Dominion Securities currently has its office locations in Edmonton at Commerce Place, Manulife and Oxford towers.

which basically means they are moving from one building within the CRL to another building in the CRL, and adding no money to the CRL.

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Re: New Arena construction!	By: welcometotheOC on Thu, 01 September 2016 16:06
Re: New Arena construction!	By: WhoreableGuy on Thu, 01 September 2016 17:24
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Gator21 on Thu, 01 September 2016 19:19
Re: New Arena construction!	By: nullterm on Thu, 01 September 2016 20:08
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Thu, 01 September 2016 20:23
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Mullet on Fri, 02 September 2016 07:31
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 02 September 2016 08:23
Re: New Arena construction!	By: nullterm on Fri, 02 September 2016 11:42
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Thu, 01 September 2016 20:38
Re: New Arena construction!	By: smyth260 on Thu, 01 September 2016 22:16
Re: New Arena construction!	By: mightyreasoner on Fri, 02 September 2016 12:23
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 02 September 2016 14:02
Re: New Arena construction!	By: nullterm on Fri, 02 September 2016 20:06
Re: New Arena construction!	By: WhoreableGuy on Fri, 02 September 2016 20:12
Re: New Arena construction!	By: ChasinStanley on Sat, 03 September 2016 07:38
Re: New Arena construction!	By: mightyreasoner on Sun, 04 September 2016 14:02
Re: New Arena construction!	By: darkknight on Mon, 05 September 2016 19:25
Re: New Arena construction!	By: ryanc182 on Mon, 05 September 2016 23:39
Re: New Arena construction!	By: stemhovlichski on Thu, 08 September 2016 02:55
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Goose on Thu, 08 September 2016 09:12
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Thu, 08 September 2016 09:29
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Adam on Thu, 08 September 2016 09:34
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 08 September 2016 09:42
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Goose on Thu, 08 September 2016 10:33
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Thu, 08 September 2016 10:45
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Goose on Thu, 08 September 2016 12:20
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Mike on Thu, 08 September 2016 12:28
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 08 September 2016 12:46
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 08 September 2016 16:00
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Mike on Thu, 08 September 2016 17:53
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Gator21 on Fri, 09 September 2016 01:52
Re: New Arena construction!	By: g2k on Fri, 09 September 2016 06:55
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Fri, 09 September 2016 08:40
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 09 September 2016 08:43
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Adam on Fri, 09 September 2016 08:48
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Fri, 09 September 2016 08:50
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 09 September 2016 08:53
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Fri, 09 September 2016 08:56
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 09 September 2016 09:16
Re: New Arena construction!	By: g2k on Fri, 09 September 2016 17:19
Re: New Arena construction!	By: K.McC#24 on Fri, 09 September 2016 11:30
Re: New Arena construction!	By: feepa on Fri, 09 September 2016 15:56
Re: New Arena construction!	By: richksaun on Fri, 09 September 2016 16:03
Re: New Arena construction!	By: K.McC#24 on Fri, 09 September 2016 11:29
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Thu, 08 September 2016 10:36
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Goose on Thu, 08 September 2016 10:38
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 08 September 2016 10:40
Re: New Arena construction!	By: g2k on Fri, 09 September 2016 07:01
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Mullet on Fri, 09 September 2016 07:44
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Thu, 08 September 2016 11:54
Re: New Arena construction!	By: richksaun on Thu, 08 September 2016 16:49
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Magnum on Sat, 10 September 2016 16:11
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Fri, 09 September 2016 09:30
Re: New Arena construction!	By: mightyreasoner on Fri, 09 September 2016 11:20
Re: New Arena construction!	By: JPro on Sat, 10 September 2016 15:00
Re: New Arena construction!	By: haggis on Sat, 10 September 2016 20:10
Re: New Arena construction!	By: JPro on Sat, 10 September 2016 20:30
Re: New Arena construction!	By: haggis on Sat, 10 September 2016 20:47
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Sun, 11 September 2016 15:16
Re: New Arena construction!	By: JPro on Sun, 11 September 2016 20:42
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Sun, 11 September 2016 20:55
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Sun, 11 September 2016 21:36
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Hubbs on Mon, 12 September 2016 08:29
Re: New Arena construction!	By: JPro on Mon, 12 September 2016 12:21
Re: New Arena construction!	By: mightyreasoner on Mon, 12 September 2016 12:23
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Gator21 on Sun, 11 September 2016 17:41
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Magnum on Mon, 12 September 2016 08:59
Re: New Arena construction!	By: WhoreableGuy on Mon, 12 September 2016 21:33
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Mon, 12 September 2016 12:06
Re: New Arena construction!	By: bigEfromGP on Mon, 12 September 2016 15:08
Re: New Arena construction!	By: bigEfromGP on Mon, 12 September 2016 15:13
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Tue, 13 September 2016 08:49
Re: New Arena construction!	By: mightyreasoner on Mon, 12 September 2016 10:25
Re: New Arena construction!	By: McDavid97 on Mon, 12 September 2016 13:30
Re: New Arena construction!	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 12 September 2016 14:05
Re: New Arena construction!	By: MJ on Tue, 13 September 2016 11:42
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Ragnarok73 on Wed, 14 September 2016 21:00
Re: New Arena construction!	By: bigred75 on Thu, 15 September 2016 15:13
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Magnum on Thu, 15 September 2016 16:04
Re: New Arena construction!	By: JPro on Tue, 20 September 2016 12:24
Re: New Arena construction!	By: nullterm on Wed, 21 September 2016 21:52
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Skoobz on Thu, 22 September 2016 10:56
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Thu, 22 September 2016 11:00
Re: New Arena construction!	By: g2k on Fri, 23 September 2016 13:06
Re: New Arena construction!	By: WhoreableGuy on Sun, 25 September 2016 19:56
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Mon, 26 September 2016 15:37
Re: New Arena construction!	By: JPro on Mon, 26 September 2016 23:18
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Tue, 27 September 2016 09:19
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Wed, 05 October 2016 08:06
Re: New Arena construction!	By: hero on Fri, 07 October 2016 13:30
Re: New Arena construction!	By: feepa on Wed, 12 October 2016 10:38
Re: New Arena construction!	By: WhoreableGuy on Wed, 12 October 2016 12:23
Re: New Arena construction!	By: PlusOne on Wed, 12 October 2016 14:21
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Wed, 12 October 2016 14:24
Re: New Arena construction!	By: feepa on Sun, 30 October 2016 14:30
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Goose on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:41
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:45
Re: New Arena construction!	By: bigEfromGP on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:54
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Goose on Wed, 12 April 2017 09:56
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Oscargasm on Wed, 12 April 2017 10:04
Re: New Arena construction!	By: McDavid97 on Wed, 12 April 2017 11:06
Re: New Arena construction!	By: bigEfromGP on Wed, 12 April 2017 12:19
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Goose on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:29
Re: New Arena construction!	By: MJ on Tue, 16 May 2017 23:39
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 17 May 2017 00:14
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Goose on Wed, 17 May 2017 07:48
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 17 May 2017 08:23
Re: New Arena construction!	By: feepa on Wed, 17 May 2017 07:54
Re: New Arena construction!	By: NetBOG on Wed, 17 May 2017 10:53
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Rocksteady on Sat, 20 May 2017 11:10
Re: New Arena construction!	By: GabbyDugan on Tue, 12 September 2017 15:40
Re: New Arena construction!	By: GabbyDugan on Wed, 13 September 2017 11:39
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Ragnarok73 on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:02
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 13 September 2017 16:28
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Adam on Thu, 14 September 2017 02:02
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Magnum on Thu, 14 September 2017 08:56
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Greg on Thu, 14 September 2017 09:57
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Fri, 06 October 2017 13:13
Re: New Arena construction!	By: NetBOG on Fri, 29 June 2018 12:51
Re: New Arena construction!	By: feepa on Fri, 29 June 2018 14:08
Re: New Arena construction!	By: GabbyDugan on Sun, 14 July 2019 10:21
Re: New Arena construction!	By: NetBOG on Sun, 14 July 2019 10:58
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Sun, 14 July 2019 11:30
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Ragnarok73 on Sun, 14 July 2019 14:11
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Skookum Jim on Tue, 16 July 2019 09:29
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Sun, 14 July 2019 14:13
Re: New Arena construction!	By: philly boy on Mon, 15 July 2019 18:29
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Magnum on Wed, 17 July 2019 14:48
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 17 July 2019 15:34
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Magnum on Wed, 17 July 2019 16:11
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Kr55 on Wed, 17 July 2019 16:14
Re: New Arena construction!	By: GabbyDugan on Wed, 25 September 2019 10:51
Re: New Arena construction!	By: Gator21 on Fri, 25 October 2019 23:49
Re: New Arena construction!	By: CrudeRemarks on Sat, 26 October 2019 09:06
Re: New Arena construction!	By: philly boy on Sat, 26 October 2019 13:49
Re: New Arena construction!	By: stemhovlichski on Sun, 27 October 2019 16:13
Re: New Arena construction!	By: philly boy on Sun, 27 October 2019 19:30

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