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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824412 is a reply to message #824409 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 11:53

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Steve wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 10:35

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 09:06

Quote:

Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC

ARIZ places Zack Kassian and Patrik Nemeth on waivers for purposes of a buyout

So long Zack Kassian...after the last season, he's going to struggle to catch on anywhere, I'd think.

He was decent when he wanted to be, like during his last contract year. He has good tools, but he's a floater when he's not motivated. Someone might pick up for a cheap 1-year deal to see if he can bounce back. I hope it's not the Oilers.

Any team that can't give 1 year deals needs to stay far away from Kassian. I guess that means us, since we give minimum 2 to free agents.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824413 is a reply to message #824407 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824414 is a reply to message #824413 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824415 is a reply to message #824414 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824416 is a reply to message #824415 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824421 is a reply to message #824416 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7642
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824422 is a reply to message #824421 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 13:23

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

Those were just 12 normal Nuge games. Exactly the same player as the regular season. Did his PP work, needed 2 linemates 5v5 to drive all the play for him to be useful and we just couldn't give that to him with Kane, Hyman and Yams all pretty close to useless for various reasons. Maybe next year. But I don't see Nuge having much of a drop off any time soon, unless we trade McDrai. Statistically, Nuge will probably look like a bargain for years still.

[Updated on: Tue, 20 June 2023 13:25]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824434 is a reply to message #824422 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 15:05

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:23

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

Those were just 12 normal Nuge games. Exactly the same player as the regular season. Did his PP work, needed 2 linemates 5v5 to drive all the play for him to be useful and we just couldn't give that to him with Kane, Hyman and Yams all pretty close to useless for various reasons.

I agree with you.
Yamo to me has proven he's not a top 6 player, at least on the Oilers and will struggle in the playoffs dues to his size.
Kane almost had his hand cut off, had a broken finger plus was battling something with his knee.
Hyman got kneed plus whatever else he had so the 2 of them weren't healthy enough to make a what by all accounts seems to be a perfectly healthy Nuge play at a top 6 level.

I am sure Nuge will be able to put up decent points being the first touch on the Oilers record setting PP by doing a 12 ft pass to McD and then watching him do all the work to score or set someone else up and Nuge will play on the wing with one of McD or Leon and get his points while those 2 do all the work and fans tell everyone how amazing Nuge is, how much of an apparently great 2 way forward he is and #KeepNugeforever. If ever there was a player with a better situation than Nuge, I'd have a hard time thinking of one. You don't have to do much except show up, rack up your secondary points and watch the fans love you while they make excuses for why year after year you don't ever elevate your game.

[Updated on: Tue, 20 June 2023 15:07]

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824433 is a reply to message #824421 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824459 is a reply to message #824433 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 12:51

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

I was in the Keep Nuge Forever corner, and I still am. I think you undervalue his PP contributions. He is widely regarded as a PP wizard, and he does much more than provide secondary assists. He runs a lot of that PP and has that deceptive shot that gives the PP an element of scoring from the LW slot. His salary is great for a 50-65 point guy (that is not mediocre) and I doubt he ever approaches 100 points again, I am confident his basement will be in the 60 point range. Find me better value than that.

This feels like the old Eberle bashing days. Not all players will be play drivers, and I sure would love to have Jordan 'Perimeter Player' Eberle in my top 6. The hole from removing Nuge would not be replaced at his current price point.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824460 is a reply to message #824459 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 13:28

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

I was in the Keep Nuge Forever corner, and I still am. I think you undervalue his PP contributions. He is widely regarded as a PP wizard, and he does much more than provide secondary assists. He runs a lot of that PP and has that deceptive shot that gives the PP an element of scoring from the LW slot. His salary is great for a 50-65 point guy (that is not mediocre) and I doubt he ever approaches 100 points again, I am confident his basement will be in the 60 point range. Find me better value than that.

This feels like the old Eberle bashing days. Not all players will be play drivers, and I sure would love to have Jordan 'Perimeter Player' Eberle in my top 6. The hole from removing Nuge would not be replaced at his current price point.

For the record, if people actually read what I said in this thread, I have yet to say they Oilers need to get rid of him. This conversation started when K55 listed a bunch of long term contracts that Holland had signed that got bought out shortly after and all I said was could Nuge be next at some point. Then PI like he does, takes a shot at me about making that statement based on 12 games. So I responded that my comment was based on his body of work.

I haven't said they should get rid of him, I am not advocating to get rid him but if it ever came to pass, the reasons I stated would be why in my opinion.

But and what I am going to say isn't an opinion, it's a fact, if the Oilers are going to win the cup, guys like Nuge have to step up and have a better playoff than he just did. I am not saying what he does on the PP doesn't have value, it does. But he scored 1 goal period and had 1 goal, 1 assist 5 on 5. Like it or not because it's Nuge, that's not enough. That isn't a shot at Nuge, that's a fact. He has to score more than he did this past playoffs especially considering how much he plays.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824463 is a reply to message #824460 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 13:56

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:28

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

I was in the Keep Nuge Forever corner, and I still am. I think you undervalue his PP contributions. He is widely regarded as a PP wizard, and he does much more than provide secondary assists. He runs a lot of that PP and has that deceptive shot that gives the PP an element of scoring from the LW slot. His salary is great for a 50-65 point guy (that is not mediocre) and I doubt he ever approaches 100 points again, I am confident his basement will be in the 60 point range. Find me better value than that.

This feels like the old Eberle bashing days. Not all players will be play drivers, and I sure would love to have Jordan 'Perimeter Player' Eberle in my top 6. The hole from removing Nuge would not be replaced at his current price point.

For the record, if people actually read what I said in this thread, I have yet to say they Oilers need to get rid of him. This conversation started when K55 listed a bunch of long term contracts that Holland had signed that got bought out shortly after and all I said was could Nuge be next at some point. Then PI like he does, takes a shot at me about making that statement based on 12 games. So I responded that my comment was based on his body of work.

I haven't said they should get rid of him, I am not advocating to get rid him but if it ever came to pass, the reasons I stated would be why in my opinion.

But and what I am going to say isn't an opinion, it's a fact, if the Oilers are going to win the cup, guys like Nuge have to step up and have a better playoff than he just did. I am not saying what he does on the PP doesn't have value, it does. But he scored 1 goal period and had 1 goal, 1 assist 5 on 5. Like it or not because it's Nuge, that's not enough. That isn't a shot at Nuge, that's a fact. He has to score more than he did this past playoffs especially considering how much he plays.

Everyone has to play better to win a Cup. Not just 'guys like Nuge'. His 5v5 play dried up, but he was a key contributor on the PP. I did read what you said, but you yanked Nugent-Hopkin's name out of the blue. Our playoff success will not depend on an increase in scoring, but in the team's ability to keep the puck out of their own net. Our PP almost got us by Vegas.

If the point of your comment was to try and figure out the next buy-out then I do not understand your reasoning for bringing up #93. Coming off a career season and has 39 points in 49 playoff games almost mirroring his career regular season average ppg, .788 vs .796. Nuge is not going anywhere and he should not be any time soon.

Also, just say 'NO' to buyouts of any sort. Dead Cap is the root of all evil.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824464 is a reply to message #824463 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:00

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7642
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:56

Everyone has to play better to win a Cup. Not just 'guys like Nuge'. His 5v5 play dried up, but he was a key contributor on the PP. I did read what you said, but you yanked Nugent-Hopkin's name out of the blue. Our playoff success will not depend on an increase in scoring, but in the team's ability to keep the puck out of their own net. Our PP almost got us by Vegas.

If the point of your comment was to try and figure out the next buy-out then I do not understand your reasoning for bringing up #93. Coming off a career season and has 39 points in 49 playoff games almost mirroring his career regular season average ppg, .788 vs .796. Nuge is not going anywhere and he should not be any time soon.

Defense is the problem.
5 GAA against Vegas
5.5 GAA against Colorado

In case anyone is wondering Nuge and Hyman scored the name number of EV goals and total points. Hyman had two more EV assists. The bigger difference was Nuge's -6.

Quote:

Also, just say 'NO' to buyouts of any sort. Dead Cap is the root of all evil.

I couldn't agree more.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824466 is a reply to message #824463 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:05

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:28

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

I was in the Keep Nuge Forever corner, and I still am. I think you undervalue his PP contributions. He is widely regarded as a PP wizard, and he does much more than provide secondary assists. He runs a lot of that PP and has that deceptive shot that gives the PP an element of scoring from the LW slot. His salary is great for a 50-65 point guy (that is not mediocre) and I doubt he ever approaches 100 points again, I am confident his basement will be in the 60 point range. Find me better value than that.

This feels like the old Eberle bashing days. Not all players will be play drivers, and I sure would love to have Jordan 'Perimeter Player' Eberle in my top 6. The hole from removing Nuge would not be replaced at his current price point.

For the record, if people actually read what I said in this thread, I have yet to say they Oilers need to get rid of him. This conversation started when K55 listed a bunch of long term contracts that Holland had signed that got bought out shortly after and all I said was could Nuge be next at some point. Then PI like he does, takes a shot at me about making that statement based on 12 games. So I responded that my comment was based on his body of work.

I haven't said they should get rid of him, I am not advocating to get rid him but if it ever came to pass, the reasons I stated would be why in my opinion.

But and what I am going to say isn't an opinion, it's a fact, if the Oilers are going to win the cup, guys like Nuge have to step up and have a better playoff than he just did. I am not saying what he does on the PP doesn't have value, it does. But he scored 1 goal period and had 1 goal, 1 assist 5 on 5. Like it or not because it's Nuge, that's not enough. That isn't a shot at Nuge, that's a fact. He has to score more than he did this past playoffs especially considering how much he plays.

Everyone has to play better to win a Cup. Not just 'guys like Nuge'. His 5v5 play dried up, but he was a key contributor on the PP. I did read what you said, but you yanked Nugent-Hopkin's name out of the blue. Our playoff success will not depend on an increase in scoring, but in the team's ability to keep the puck out of their own net. Our PP almost got us by Vegas.

If the point of your comment was to try and figure out the next buy-out then I do not understand your reasoning for bringing up #93. Coming off a career season and has 39 points in 49 playoff games almost mirroring his career regular season average ppg, .788 vs .796. Nuge is not going anywhere and he should not be any time soon.

Also, just say 'NO' to buyouts of any sort. Dead Cap is the root of all evil.

I know for some, any talk about Nuge that isn't he's great is a no go. That's fine.

I like Nuge, I am fine he's on the team but I was never a KeepNugeForever guy. I was a keep Nuge if he will take a contract that you can't refuse. He did that. I don't love the turn but at 5.125 mill that's a price point for a good player that is next to impossible to replace for cheaper. I wish he was more of a driver, I wish he was more intense, I wish he wasn't as much if a complimentary guy as he is but he's a good player in what he does for the most part. I have always wanted more from him because there should be more there but it's likely never to come.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824469 is a reply to message #824466 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:20

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 14:05

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:28

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

I was in the Keep Nuge Forever corner, and I still am. I think you undervalue his PP contributions. He is widely regarded as a PP wizard, and he does much more than provide secondary assists. He runs a lot of that PP and has that deceptive shot that gives the PP an element of scoring from the LW slot. His salary is great for a 50-65 point guy (that is not mediocre) and I doubt he ever approaches 100 points again, I am confident his basement will be in the 60 point range. Find me better value than that.

This feels like the old Eberle bashing days. Not all players will be play drivers, and I sure would love to have Jordan 'Perimeter Player' Eberle in my top 6. The hole from removing Nuge would not be replaced at his current price point.

For the record, if people actually read what I said in this thread, I have yet to say they Oilers need to get rid of him. This conversation started when K55 listed a bunch of long term contracts that Holland had signed that got bought out shortly after and all I said was could Nuge be next at some point. Then PI like he does, takes a shot at me about making that statement based on 12 games. So I responded that my comment was based on his body of work.

I haven't said they should get rid of him, I am not advocating to get rid him but if it ever came to pass, the reasons I stated would be why in my opinion.

But and what I am going to say isn't an opinion, it's a fact, if the Oilers are going to win the cup, guys like Nuge have to step up and have a better playoff than he just did. I am not saying what he does on the PP doesn't have value, it does. But he scored 1 goal period and had 1 goal, 1 assist 5 on 5. Like it or not because it's Nuge, that's not enough. That isn't a shot at Nuge, that's a fact. He has to score more than he did this past playoffs especially considering how much he plays.

Everyone has to play better to win a Cup. Not just 'guys like Nuge'. His 5v5 play dried up, but he was a key contributor on the PP. I did read what you said, but you yanked Nugent-Hopkin's name out of the blue. Our playoff success will not depend on an increase in scoring, but in the team's ability to keep the puck out of their own net. Our PP almost got us by Vegas.

If the point of your comment was to try and figure out the next buy-out then I do not understand your reasoning for bringing up #93. Coming off a career season and has 39 points in 49 playoff games almost mirroring his career regular season average ppg, .788 vs .796. Nuge is not going anywhere and he should not be any time soon.

Also, just say 'NO' to buyouts of any sort. Dead Cap is the root of all evil.

I know for some, any talk about Nuge that isn't he's great is a no go. That's fine.

I like Nuge, I am fine he's on the team but I was never a KeepNugeForever guy. I was a keep Nuge if he will take a contract that you can't refuse. He did that. I don't love the turn but at 5.125 mill that's a price point for a good player that is next to impossible to replace for cheaper. I wish he was more of a driver, I wish he was more intense, I wish he wasn't as much if a complimentary guy as he is but he's a good player in what he does for the most part. I have always wanted more from him because there should be more there but it's likely never to come.

I do not think many people believe Nuge is "great", but the Nuge lovers see the intangibles that he brings, along side consistent 60 point scoring. You can wish for a lot of things, and sometimes #93 surprises you with a big hit or a fight from time to time. Those moments are few and far between, but he rarely underperforms from his baseline and many people see the value in that.

You do not need to be a fan of his RD, he has enough already. Having an contrarian opinion is allowed, but you are going to find it tough if you are looking for allies in this dispute.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824470 is a reply to message #824469 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:33

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 14:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 14:05

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 13:28

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:16

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 11:54

Agents love Holland

Brian King @Kinger999

Zach Kassian: 4x3.2. 10 goals, bought out after 3.

Stephen Weiss: 5x4.9. 11 goals, bought out after 2.

Justin Abdelkator: 7x4.25 26 goals, bought out after 4.

Fran Neilson: 6x5.25 48 goals, bought out after 5.

Lots of guys getting some cash beyond their useable NHL years.

So Nuge is next?

Why would you think that?

I don't yet but he was listing off forwards and Nuge's name jumped into my mind given how brutal he was in the playoffs with no apparent reason. There is 6 more years on Nuge's deal and if he has another playoff like he just did, that contract won't look to great.

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

I was in the Keep Nuge Forever corner, and I still am. I think you undervalue his PP contributions. He is widely regarded as a PP wizard, and he does much more than provide secondary assists. He runs a lot of that PP and has that deceptive shot that gives the PP an element of scoring from the LW slot. His salary is great for a 50-65 point guy (that is not mediocre) and I doubt he ever approaches 100 points again, I am confident his basement will be in the 60 point range. Find me better value than that.

This feels like the old Eberle bashing days. Not all players will be play drivers, and I sure would love to have Jordan 'Perimeter Player' Eberle in my top 6. The hole from removing Nuge would not be replaced at his current price point.

For the record, if people actually read what I said in this thread, I have yet to say they Oilers need to get rid of him. This conversation started when K55 listed a bunch of long term contracts that Holland had signed that got bought out shortly after and all I said was could Nuge be next at some point. Then PI like he does, takes a shot at me about making that statement based on 12 games. So I responded that my comment was based on his body of work.

I haven't said they should get rid of him, I am not advocating to get rid him but if it ever came to pass, the reasons I stated would be why in my opinion.

But and what I am going to say isn't an opinion, it's a fact, if the Oilers are going to win the cup, guys like Nuge have to step up and have a better playoff than he just did. I am not saying what he does on the PP doesn't have value, it does. But he scored 1 goal period and had 1 goal, 1 assist 5 on 5. Like it or not because it's Nuge, that's not enough. That isn't a shot at Nuge, that's a fact. He has to score more than he did this past playoffs especially considering how much he plays.

Everyone has to play better to win a Cup. Not just 'guys like Nuge'. His 5v5 play dried up, but he was a key contributor on the PP. I did read what you said, but you yanked Nugent-Hopkin's name out of the blue. Our playoff success will not depend on an increase in scoring, but in the team's ability to keep the puck out of their own net. Our PP almost got us by Vegas.

If the point of your comment was to try and figure out the next buy-out then I do not understand your reasoning for bringing up #93. Coming off a career season and has 39 points in 49 playoff games almost mirroring his career regular season average ppg, .788 vs .796. Nuge is not going anywhere and he should not be any time soon.

Also, just say 'NO' to buyouts of any sort. Dead Cap is the root of all evil.

I know for some, any talk about Nuge that isn't he's great is a no go. That's fine.

I like Nuge, I am fine he's on the team but I was never a KeepNugeForever guy. I was a keep Nuge if he will take a contract that you can't refuse. He did that. I don't love the turn but at 5.125 mill that's a price point for a good player that is next to impossible to replace for cheaper. I wish he was more of a driver, I wish he was more intense, I wish he wasn't as much if a complimentary guy as he is but he's a good player in what he does for the most part. I have always wanted more from him because there should be more there but it's likely never to come.

I do not think many people believe Nuge is "great", but the Nuge lovers see the intangibles that he brings, along side consistent 60 point scoring. You can wish for a lot of things, and sometimes #93 surprises you with a big hit or a fight from time to time. Those moments are few and far between, but he rarely underperforms from his baseline and many people see the value in that.

You do not need to be a fan of his RD, he has enough already. Having an contrarian opinion is allowed, but you are going to find it tough if you are looking for allies in this dispute.

Trust me, I have learned a long time ago, I have zero allies in here about anything. I think differently and people often don't like different. Is what it is.

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824474 is a reply to message #824470 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 14:46

Adam
Messages: 6827
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 14:33

Trust me, I have learned a long time ago, I have zero allies in here about anything. I think differently and people often don't like different. Is what it is.

Now, now. I don't think there's anyone who doesn't like you here. I appreciate your role here, personally. I personally enjoy alternative positions, because if everyone just nodded along at all my posts, then there'd be no engagement. This is always more fun.

I do think you're migrating far away from Kassian and his buyout though, so we should move the Nuge talk to speculation, and move this back to a sad lament for Zack.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Kassian traded to AZ [message #824482 is a reply to message #824474 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 18:07

inverno76
Messages: 2122
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

I like RD. I also like how RD believes everyone is out to get him. I enjoying hearing your differing opinions, but I am only on board with a small percentage of the takes.

Guys like RD makes this forum better, even if he thinks we are all waiting to pounce him.

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