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 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784291]
Tue, 04 May 2021 19:29 Go to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 7247
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

Been watching a few of these games, some real Canadian talent coming up.. kid for real is Shane Wright (F), he's 2022 eligible, he's already probably the best player on the team, and the Captain!. Add to that Mason McTavish (F), Brandt Clarke (D), Corson Ceulemans (D), Dylan Guenther (F), Connor Bedard (2023 eligible, only 15!), Olen Zellwegger (D).. plus a few more..

Too bad Oilers don't have a 2nd, or 3rd this year.. lots of value available.
If possible, be worth making a trade to get a 2nd or 3rd. Love to get McTavish, just to see McTavish 2.0 on an Oiler jersey!

Whoever gets S. Wright next year will get a franchise player.

USA out of the tournament, which is hilarious. Lose 5-2 to Sweden, who Canada beat 12-1. This is USA's tournament usually because they load up on college and US development team guys, and usually have all their best age eligible guys on the team, unless they have some in the CHL, which is usually a small number.
Canada usually has half their best guys in the CHL playoffs, this was the first time USA had to compete best on best.

[Updated on: Tue, 04 May 2021 19:50]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784296 is a reply to message #784291 ]
Tue, 04 May 2021 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 3026
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Location: Regina, Sask

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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 04 May 2021 19:29

Been watching a few of these games, some real Canadian talent coming up.. kid for real is Shane Wright (F), he's 2022 eligible, he's already probably the best player on the team, and the Captain!. Add to that Mason McTavish (F), Brandt Clarke (D), Corson Ceulemans (D), Dylan Guenther (F), Connor Bedard (2023 eligible, only 15!), Olen Zellwegger (D).. plus a few more..

Too bad Oilers don't have a 2nd, or 3rd this year.. lots of value available.
If possible, be worth making a trade to get a 2nd or 3rd. Love to get McTavish, just to see McTavish 2.0 on an Oiler jersey!

Whoever gets S. Wright next year will get a franchise player.

USA out of the tournament, which is hilarious. Lose 5-2 to Sweden, who Canada beat 12-1. This is USA's tournament usually because they load up on college and US development team guys, and usually have all their best age eligible guys on the team, unless they are in the CHL.
Canada usually has half their best guys in the CHL playoffs, this was the first time USA had to compete best on best.


A couple of comments/notes. Take them all with the caveat that I watch almost no hockey outside of the NHL. I get 90% of my junior player info from Twitter and friends who are huge Pats fans here in Regina. I get 99% of my Oiler prospect info from you and people like you on this board!

RE; Bedard. I was pretty stoked when the Pats got him then pretty bummed when I didnt get to see him play. I have a couple of buddies that worked in the WHL "bubble" here in Regina and said he is something else. A couple of the guys have worked WHL games for 20 years and said he is the best young player they have ever seen. Only negative they mentioned was his size. Hopefully I get to see him play live next year.

RE; this years draft and the Oilers. I cold have sworn I read this isnt a great draft year. Very little high end talent and after the few who do have it things dry up real fast. I think this was around the deadline and during a preview they said that teams shouldnt be hesitant to trade this years picks given the relative crappiness of the draft.
Thoughts on this draft's quality aside I am never a fan of trading specifically for 2nd or later picks. If you are able to get more in a bigger deal great but the odds of those players being useful is so low you better not be giving up much to add picks.
Additionally, the Oilers dont have a tonne of blue chip prospects, especially at Forward but there are enough that are close to NHL ready the teams is trouble getting them all into games. From reports and posters on here there are 3-5 rookie F's who could push for a spot next year and 2-3 D. I know you have to have a cycle to replenish but the next 3-5 years is window wide open time. All non-useful prospects and picks need to be moved for players that help in that timeframe.

RE; Shane Wright. I remember hearing his name a couple years ago as 15 yr old as the next big thing. Tough he didnt get to play this year. Does he look elite? As in, heads and shoulders above the rest?

RE; 2022 draft; I googled Shane Wright and this is the first result I clicked on; https://www.eliteprospects.com/draft-center/2022
I recognize a very small list of names on that list. Going to be a weird year for teams to ran players. Some have zero or limited games. Less intl tourneys and the ones played have limited viewing availability.
One of the I guys I mentioned earlier is a scout and he said he expects teams to draft way more "local" players given scouting limits this year.

Lastly, on that list is a player named Rutger McGroarty. Never heard of him but I really hope the Oilers draft him for the name alone.





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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784343 is a reply to message #784296 ]
Tue, 04 May 2021 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Location: Burnaby, BC

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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 04 May 2021 19:04



A couple of comments/notes. Take them all with the caveat that I watch almost no hockey outside of the NHL. I get 90% of my junior player info from Twitter and friends who are huge Pats fans here in Regina. I get 99% of my Oiler prospect info from you and people like you on this board!

RE; Bedard. I was pretty stoked when the Pats got him then pretty bummed when I didnt get to see him play. I have a couple of buddies that worked in the WHL "bubble" here in Regina and said he is something else. A couple of the guys have worked WHL games for 20 years and said he is the best young player they have ever seen. Only negative they mentioned was his size. Hopefully I get to see him play live next year.

RE; this years draft and the Oilers. I cold have sworn I read this isnt a great draft year. Very little high end talent and after the few who do have it things dry up real fast. I think this was around the deadline and during a preview they said that teams shouldnt be hesitant to trade this years picks given the relative crappiness of the draft.
Thoughts on this draft's quality aside I am never a fan of trading specifically for 2nd or later picks. If you are able to get more in a bigger deal great but the odds of those players being useful is so low you better not be giving up much to add picks.
Additionally, the Oilers dont have a tonne of blue chip prospects, especially at Forward but there are enough that are close to NHL ready the teams is trouble getting them all into games. From reports and posters on here there are 3-5 rookie F's who could push for a spot next year and 2-3 D. I know you have to have a cycle to replenish but the next 3-5 years is window wide open time. All non-useful prospects and picks need to be moved for players that help in that timeframe.

RE; Shane Wright. I remember hearing his name a couple years ago as 15 yr old as the next big thing. Tough he didnt get to play this year. Does he look elite? As in, heads and shoulders above the rest?

RE; 2022 draft; I googled Shane Wright and this is the first result I clicked on; https://www.eliteprospects.com/draft-center/2022
I recognize a very small list of names on that list. Going to be a weird year for teams to ran players. Some have zero or limited games. Less intl tourneys and the ones played have limited viewing availability.
One of the I guys I mentioned earlier is a scout and he said he expects teams to draft way more "local" players given scouting limits this year.

Lastly, on that list is a player named Rutger McGroarty. Never heard of him but I really hope the Oilers draft him for the name alone.



Yeah Bedard is small, now, but the kid is only 15! He'll be even better in 2 years in his draft year.

Yeah Wright never played this year, went, into the tourney cold, still dominates, some of the others (like Bedard), played in Europe. He's only 17, 6'-1" 187 lbs.. NHL snipe shot, team leader. You never know how these kids develop into the NHL, sometimes not a straight line, (I thought LaFreniere would do better for the NYR), but I think Wright will be real deal elite.

Probably too late to acquire a 2nd or 3rd round pick this year, most expensive near the draft, cheapest to get at the trade deadline, would be real nice to have that 3rd the NHL stole from the Oilers for Lucic.





McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784349 is a reply to message #784296 ]
Tue, 04 May 2021 23:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 16717
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 04 May 2021 20:04


RE; this years draft and the Oilers. I cold have sworn I read this isnt a great draft year. Very little high end talent and after the few who do have it things dry up real fast. I think this was around the deadline and during a preview they said that teams shouldnt be hesitant to trade this years picks given the relative crappiness of the draft.
Thoughts on this draft's quality aside I am never a fan of trading specifically for 2nd or later picks. If you are able to get more in a bigger deal great but the odds of those players being useful is so low you better not be giving up much to add picks.
Additionally, the Oilers dont have a tonne of blue chip prospects, especially at Forward but there are enough that are close to NHL ready the teams is trouble getting them all into games. From reports and posters on here there are 3-5 rookie F's who could push for a spot next year and 2-3 D. I know you have to have a cycle to replenish but the next 3-5 years is window wide open time. All non-useful prospects and picks need to be moved for players that help in that timeframe.



A few thoughts on this:

- Whever I hear it's a weak draft, I remember reading an article written before the 2003 draft suggesting it was possibly a weak draft year and that players hadn't really stood out from their peers. I was reading this article 8-10 years after the draft and just had to laugh because the crop was such a strong one, and that actually seemed clear even just a year or two later. I think that perhaps when it's a deep field, and there's a lot of strong players, you just see that no one is head and shoulders above their peers.

- I think the funnel is decent currently for the Oilers. On defence, we have too many good LH prospects and should probably look to move one or two in trades. On forward, there's not a lot of really high end guys, but McLeod, Benson, Holloway...there's something there. I would like to see a little more nose for the net from McLeod. Five games in, he's only had two shots. Might be confidence a bit, but he's gotta start putting pucks on net if he ever expects to see them go in. Early in his career though, so can't judge too harshly yet. At goalie, signing Konovalov is good, and Skinner is back in the picture after trying to drop completely out last year. I'm still not sold on him as the goalie of the future, but at least he's not a sub .900 AHL and ECHL guy any more. Reality is, few teams are going to have blue chip prospects at every position. This is probably the most depth we've had in a decade or more.

- Yeah, I don't know what you trade for a 2nd round pick or later that doesn't leave you potentially looking silly. I just think of Andrew Cogliano for a 2nd - we got Marco Roy. Or Ales Hemsky for a 3rd and a 5th - it turned out to be Liam Coughlin and Sergey Zborovskiy (who wasn't even drafted by us). Giving up an NHLer for a lottery pick only makes sense if you really need to lose that player and there's some level of addition by subtraction.



"This team needs an enema!"
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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784354 is a reply to message #784349 ]
Wed, 05 May 2021 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Adam wrote on Tue, 04 May 2021 23:22



- Yeah, I don't know what you trade for a 2nd round pick or later that doesn't leave you potentially looking silly. I just think of Andrew Cogliano for a 2nd - we got Marco Roy. Or Ales Hemsky for a 3rd and a 5th - it turned out to be Liam Coughlin and Sergey Zborovskiy (who wasn't even drafted by us). Giving up an NHLer for a lottery pick only makes sense if you really need to lose that player and there's some level of addition by subtraction.


I mean, Hemsky was way past his best before date when he was dealt, and then signed a 3x$4 million deal that summer with the Stars, which only turned out slightly better than the James Neal contract.

Cogliano was behind Nuge, Gagner, and Hemsky on the depth chart. He still had a lot of good years left, but even as a player with 4 RFA years left, it took $2.7 million to get him signed, and I'm not sure the team thought that was a good use of funds.

You've hand picked two where the draft picks / prospects don't work. Sometimes your rental of Ron Tugnutt costs you Martin Ruchinsky or a rental of Dustin Penner gets you Oscar Klefbom.

Teams need to make as many draft picks as possible. It costs no cap to develop players, but established players are expensive. Even when this team drafted high, they always seemed to try to find a shortcut and it doesn't work. Colorado and Tampa are where they are because they spent time drafting and developing properly.



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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784371 is a reply to message #784354 ]
Wed, 05 May 2021 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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NetBOG wrote on Wed, 05 May 2021 01:03

Adam wrote on Tue, 04 May 2021 23:22



- Yeah, I don't know what you trade for a 2nd round pick or later that doesn't leave you potentially looking silly. I just think of Andrew Cogliano for a 2nd - we got Marco Roy. Or Ales Hemsky for a 3rd and a 5th - it turned out to be Liam Coughlin and Sergey Zborovskiy (who wasn't even drafted by us). Giving up an NHLer for a lottery pick only makes sense if you really need to lose that player and there's some level of addition by subtraction.


I mean, Hemsky was way past his best before date when he was dealt, and then signed a 3x$4 million deal that summer with the Stars, which only turned out slightly better than the James Neal contract.

Cogliano was behind Nuge, Gagner, and Hemsky on the depth chart. He still had a lot of good years left, but even as a player with 4 RFA years left, it took $2.7 million to get him signed, and I'm not sure the team thought that was a good use of funds.

You've hand picked two where the draft picks / prospects don't work. Sometimes your rental of Ron Tugnutt costs you Martin Ruchinsky or a rental of Dustin Penner gets you Oscar Klefbom.

Teams need to make as many draft picks as possible. It costs no cap to develop players, but established players are expensive. Even when this team drafted high, they always seemed to try to find a shortcut and it doesn't work. Colorado and Tampa are where they are because they spent time drafting and developing properly.


I'm sure you always hated Hemsky anyhow. He doesn't like the sort of player a guy who hates Taylor Hall and Paul Coffey would like. It still is an exceptionally low return for a guy who absolutely still could play, but that's what happens when you hire MacT to be your GM and he announces in a press conference that he wants to trade Hemsky.

Martin Rucinsky was part of the Gretzky trade. The other first rounders we got in that trade were Nick Stadjuhar and Jason Miller (not picked by the Oilers due to a subsequent trade. We traded Rucinsky for Tugnutt, then lost Tugnutt to expansion draft.

We traded Cogliano because we signed Eric Belanger, and we thought Belanger made Cogliano redundant. Oops.

We got a 1st rounder for Penner - the discussion really is about later round picks. Even there, it took 5-6 years before Klefbom contributed to the Oilers from the time of that trade, while Penner was a significant contributor in the Kings winning the Cup the next season.

There's a lot more misses than hits in draft pick trades. Every so often, you trade David Perron for a 1st round pick and it turns out to be Mathew Barzal. More often you trade Ryan Smyth for a couple of them and end up with Riley Nash (through another draft pick trade to move up) and Alex Plante.

Let's look at a bunch more - I'll stick to non-1st round picks though, since that's more the point here:

Jochen Hecht for two 2nd round draft picks used to pick Stoll & Deslauriers
Jason Chimera for 2nd & 4th rounders (Paukovich & Reddox)
Brad Isbister for a 4th (Delory)
Alexei Semenov for a 5th (Pitton)
Lupul/Pitkanen deal included an extra 3rd for us (Cam Abney)
Brodziak & a 6th for 4th & 5th round picks (Bigos & O. Roy.)
Grebeshkov for a 2nd (C. Hamilton)
Visnovsky for Whitney & a 6th (B. Davidson)
Riley Nash for a 2nd (Marincin)
Horcoff & C. Hamilton for Larsen and a 7th (Lohin)
Nick Schultz for a 5th (T.Bird)
Petry for a 2nd & a 4th (Siegenthaler & C. Jones)
Larsen for a 5th (Karow)
A. Nilsson for a 5th (G. McPhee)
Yakupov for a 3rd (Crotty)
B. Davidson for a 3rd (Konovalov)
Maroon for a 3rd (A. Campbell)

You get the picture. Most of the time, these don't work out. It does a few times (Hecht most notably above), but in those situations, there's a lag of multiple years where you gave up an NHLer and don't have one in return.

Sometimes that makes sense to do anyhow - if you don't have room for someone in your roster or need to be rid of the salary, then getting something is better than getting nothing, even if it's just a lottery ticket (and the salary relief, which is often worth more than the pick). But the value of these picks is overblown. If we get a third round pick, it's probably not going to work in to a win of that trade.

And if the team is in a spot like it is now - where you need to win in the near term and a player 6 years away is of minimal value? Then we should only trade for later draft picks where we are doing so to shed salary or flush a player for his roster spot.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks #FireTheGretzkys #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland

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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784308 is a reply to message #784291 ]
Tue, 04 May 2021 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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I worked with Ceulemans' uncle a couple years back. He'd tell me about how the kid was pretty good and might have a shot, and how he got to take credit for making him stick handle around pylons in the basement as a three year old.


You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784346 is a reply to message #784308 ]
Tue, 04 May 2021 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 04 May 2021 20:08

I worked with Ceulemans' uncle a couple years back. He'd tell me about how the kid was pretty good and might have a shot, and how he got to take credit for making him stick handle around pylons in the basement as a three year old.


Ceulmans has a wicked slap shot, pretty mobile and has size, going to Wisconsin next year, he'll be good. McKenzie ranks him 18th.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784412 is a reply to message #784291 ]
Wed, 05 May 2021 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 7247
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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Team Canada beats down the Swedes .. again.. 8-1 .. their 1 goal coming on a 5 on 3... for a two game tally of 20-2

Connor Bedard with the hattie..



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784431 is a reply to message #784291 ]
Thu, 06 May 2021 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 7247
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

GOLD medal game tonight v. Russians
Russians will be faster than any other team Team Canada has faced so far, but their goalie is not strong, neither is their defense.

GO CANADA GO!!



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 U-18 WJHC (Texas, USA) [message #784530 is a reply to message #784291 ]
Thu, 06 May 2021 21:30 Go to previous message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 7247
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

GOLD !!


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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