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 Speculation » Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MMPages (2): [1  2  >  »]
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 Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766583]
Fri, 11 September 2020 12:24 Go to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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The Fourth Period reporting that all parties have agreed to a 5yr / $25MM contract extension for Lehner.

The Fourth Period isn't SN or TSN, but they're not a totally random, hack site either. If this ends up being true, that's a pretty good deal for the Knights.

Quote:

It had been widely speculated for the past week that the Vegas Golden Knights wanted to sign goalie Robin Lehner and keep him a part of the organization beyond this season.

That speculation can be put to bed, as multiple sources close to the organization have confirmed to TFP that Vegas and Lehner have agreed in principle to a five-year, $25 million contract extension and the deal will be formally signed after the playoffs.


https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagnotta/golden-knights-lehn er-agree-to-5-year-contract



Oilers Goal Differential
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19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766584 is a reply to message #766583 ]
Fri, 11 September 2020 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Goose wrote on Fri, 11 September 2020 11:24

The Fourth Period reporting that all parties have agreed to a 5yr / $25MM contract extension for Lehner.

The Fourth Period isn't SN or TSN, but they're not a totally random, hack site either. If this ends up being true, that's a pretty good deal for the Knights.

Quote:

It had been widely speculated for the past week that the Vegas Golden Knights wanted to sign goalie Robin Lehner and keep him a part of the organization beyond this season.

That speculation can be put to bed, as multiple sources close to the organization have confirmed to TFP that Vegas and Lehner have agreed in principle to a five-year, $25 million contract extension and the deal will be formally signed after the playoffs.


https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagnotta/golden-knights-lehn er-agree-to-5-year-contract


That would take $5.5 M for equivalent signing in Edmonton (Nevada has no State Tax)
This is lower than I expected for Lehner, turning into a buyers market, wonder what Markstrom would get? Or Holtby on a 2 year? Expect Oilers should be able to upgrade on their goal tandem relatively cheaply this year.



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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766587 is a reply to message #766584 ]
Fri, 11 September 2020 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently online GabbyDugan
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Lehner says no deal has been agreed upon.

https://www.tsn.ca/golden-knights-lehner-denies-reports-of-n ew-deal-1.1522820

" 'It's not true," Lehner told reporters on the team's Friday Zoom call about various reports that he had a five-year pact with Vegas. "Again, I've been on a lot of teams lately and you have some talks and kinda where you're at and what you want to do. Nothing has been finalized. We're here."'




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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766632 is a reply to message #766583 ]
Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766633 is a reply to message #766632 ]
Tue, 15 September 2020 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I like OEL and think he would be a good addition to the Oilers. I just don't like him at 8.25 mill. I see him as a slight upgrade on Klefbom but he's just not worth twice the price. If the Yotes were willing to retain a good chunk of his salary to get him close to what Klefbom makes, then sure. But I don't see why they would do that if they are looking to save money.


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766677 is a reply to message #766632 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 September 2020 08:32]


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766679 is a reply to message #766677 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently online GabbyDugan
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play.


Could be getting close to Arizona naming a GM, according to LeBrun.

https://www.tsn.ca/st-louis-blues-assistant-gm-bill-armstron g-leading-candidate-for-arizona-coyotes-gm-job-1.1525067

"St. Louis Blues assistant general manager Bill Armstrong is the leading candidate for the Arizona Coyotes vacant GM opening, depending on negotiating a deal with the club, TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun reported on Wednesday."

I'm intrigued by the possibility of Kuemper. He is signed for the next two seasons at $5 million per, same as Koskinen. No NMC for Kuemper.

As far as Larsson goes, he was fabulous with OEL back at the World Championships a couple of years ago. Could see Larsson going to Arizona either in the same deal or another one.

Jeez, I wish the Oilers knew how to recruit and develop goalies.




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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766680 is a reply to message #766679 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:39

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play.


Could be getting close to Arizona naming a GM, according to LeBrun.

https://www.tsn.ca/st-louis-blues-assistant-gm-bill-armstron g-leading-candidate-for-arizona-coyotes-gm-job-1.1525067

"St. Louis Blues assistant general manager Bill Armstrong is the leading candidate for the Arizona Coyotes vacant GM opening, depending on negotiating a deal with the club, TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun reported on Wednesday."

I'm intrigued by the possibility of Kuemper. He is signed for the next two seasons at $5 million per, same as Koskinen. No NMC for Kuemper.

As far as Larsson goes, he was fabulous with OEL back at the World Championships a couple of years ago. Could see Larsson going to Arizona either in the same deal or another one.

Jeez, I wish the Oilers knew how to recruit and develop goalies.



Konolov is getting lots of love from prospect reports. He’s been spectacular this year. 4 games, 1.57GAA and a .950 save percentage.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766683 is a reply to message #766680 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigred75  is currently offline bigred75
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:44



Konolov is getting lots of love from prospect reports. He’s been spectacular this year. 4 games, 1.57GAA and a .950 save percentage.



Looks good, but still only 4 games.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766684 is a reply to message #766677 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

I don't see any trade involving OEL unless the Coyotes eat some salary, otherwise its a bad trade for the Oilers. OEL is a good dman but he isn't an 8.25 mill dman, definitely not a 8.25 mill dman for 7 more years. He had 30 pts in 66 games, that's a 37 pt season. He's a marginal upgrade on Klefbom or Nurse. I get you dislike Nurse but Nurse is one of the better 5 on 5 scorers in the league. If OEL did come to the Oilers, I don't see him being on the PP. You have Bouchard and that is his skill set and he's a right shot when all your premium players are left shots. If you are paying a dman 8.25 mill, you better be getting more than 30-40 pts which is all he's been putting up and with Bouchard, OEL is probably on your second unit. So he won't be putting up the points to remotely justify paying him that much.

On top of it, if they didn't retain salary, they Oilers are taking away the horrible OEL contract AND doing them another favor and taking on the 6.5 mill of Stephan. So the trade is a mid round first in a really good draft, a younger, cheaper, top 3, not even at his peak yet, 35 pt 5 on 5 dman, a 15 goal scorer, you get Russell who people call it a contract dump, the guy can play and he saves your owner 2.5 mill which is a big deal for them, PLUS 4 mill in cap space for a decent but extremely overpriced, over term dman, a grossly over paid 3rd line center and a good goalie. If I am the Coyotes, I couldn't send that paperwork into the league fast enough.

I appreciate the attempt at coming up with a trade but I am not sure you are taking into account the value of cap space. Teams literally trade overpaid but still good players and at times add high picks or prospects just to get rid of a their cap hit for space. So the 4 mill the Oilers would be taking on is HUGE and worth a lot. I wouldn't even trade OEL for Nurse or Klefbom straight up just because while a slight upgrade, he's not enough of an upgrade to justify paying him that much more in salary. Even Stephan for Russell, it would have to be Stephan + for Russell because of the 2.5 mill extra in cap space on top of the fact that you are saving your team 2.5 mill in real money which these days is a big deal for some owners.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766686 is a reply to message #766684 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently online GabbyDugan
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What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766687 is a reply to message #766686 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26

What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.

I am not loving trading away a first in a deep draft and I am of the opinion that if they had a better goalie than Smith to back up Koskinen, I think they could be OK. Koskinen did put up a .917% behind the Oilers defense which isn't world beaters and I think their defense will continue to get better. But Kuemper has been really, really good and could be high end.

I'd consider a 1st, Russell/other small asset if required for Kuemper. Cap has to go back to Coyotes because cap space is HUGELY valuable. The only reason I swapped Russell for Larsson is for salary. There were stories of the Coyotes players not getting per diem money in the bubble and guys not getting their bonus cheques on time. So I have to think a player not making in salary their cap hit would be worth a lot to the owner.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766700 is a reply to message #766687 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigred75  is currently offline bigred75
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I think if Oilers were to give the 14th for Kuemper, then not only would they need to take Russell, but I think they would need to add a prospect, along the lines of Steenbergen.


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766707 is a reply to message #766687 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:39

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26

What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.

I am not loving trading away a first in a deep draft and I am of the opinion that if they had a better goalie than Smith to back up Koskinen, I think they could be OK. Koskinen did put up a .917% behind the Oilers defense which isn't world beaters and I think their defense will continue to get better. But Kuemper has been really, really good and could be high end.

I'd consider a 1st, Russell/other small asset if required for Kuemper. Cap has to go back to Coyotes because cap space is HUGELY valuable. The only reason I swapped Russell for Larsson is for salary. There were stories of the Coyotes players not getting per diem money in the bubble and guys not getting their bonus cheques on time. So I have to think a player not making in salary their cap hit would be worth a lot to the owner.

We need to think about when the player taken at 14 will actually benefit the team. Broberg was last year, he's two years away or more. Bouchard before that, might get a sniff this year. Yams took 2.5 years to make the team. We'll know the JP scenario. So this player might not be an NHL roster player until 2023-24 or later. McDavid would have 2 or 3 years left at that point. Team has to consider a trade to get better now.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766709 is a reply to message #766707 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 10:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:39

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26

What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.

I am not loving trading away a first in a deep draft and I am of the opinion that if they had a better goalie than Smith to back up Koskinen, I think they could be OK. Koskinen did put up a .917% behind the Oilers defense which isn't world beaters and I think their defense will continue to get better. But Kuemper has been really, really good and could be high end.

I'd consider a 1st, Russell/other small asset if required for Kuemper. Cap has to go back to Coyotes because cap space is HUGELY valuable. The only reason I swapped Russell for Larsson is for salary. There were stories of the Coyotes players not getting per diem money in the bubble and guys not getting their bonus cheques on time. So I have to think a player not making in salary their cap hit would be worth a lot to the owner.

We need to think about when the player taken at 14 will actually benefit the team. Broberg was last year, he's two years away or more. Bouchard before that, might get a sniff this year. Yams took 2.5 years to make the team. We'll know the JP scenario. So this player might not be an NHL roster player until 2023-24 or later. McDavid would have 2 or 3 years left at that point. Team has to consider a trade to get better now.


Yes. I loathe how much lack of urgency the Oilers have had at getting better during McDavid and Draisaitl's prime years.

Shop the pick if you can make the team better, just trade it for somebody better than Griffin Reinhart.

I imagine the Oilers would have had a pretty good team if they kept Hall, traded the Puljujarvi pick for a defenseman (rumour was that NYR offered McDonagh). But nahhh gotta keep holding onto lottery tickets while you have not one but two of the best players in the world.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766714 is a reply to message #766709 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 11:05

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 10:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:39

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26

What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.

I am not loving trading away a first in a deep draft and I am of the opinion that if they had a better goalie than Smith to back up Koskinen, I think they could be OK. Koskinen did put up a .917% behind the Oilers defense which isn't world beaters and I think their defense will continue to get better. But Kuemper has been really, really good and could be high end.

I'd consider a 1st, Russell/other small asset if required for Kuemper. Cap has to go back to Coyotes because cap space is HUGELY valuable. The only reason I swapped Russell for Larsson is for salary. There were stories of the Coyotes players not getting per diem money in the bubble and guys not getting their bonus cheques on time. So I have to think a player not making in salary their cap hit would be worth a lot to the owner.

We need to think about when the player taken at 14 will actually benefit the team. Broberg was last year, he's two years away or more. Bouchard before that, might get a sniff this year. Yams took 2.5 years to make the team. We'll know the JP scenario. So this player might not be an NHL roster player until 2023-24 or later. McDavid would have 2 or 3 years left at that point. Team has to consider a trade to get better now.


Yes. I loathe how much lack of urgency the Oilers have had at getting better during McDavid and Draisaitl's prime years.

Shop the pick if you can make the team better, just trade it for somebody better than Griffin Reinhart.

I imagine the Oilers would have had a pretty good team if they kept Hall, traded the Puljujarvi pick for a defenseman (rumour was that NYR offered McDonagh). But nahhh gotta keep holding onto lottery tickets while you have not one but two of the best players in the world.


Agreed. If it's not a top 5 pick, the Oilers should be trading their first round pick every year at this point, and using those trades to both get better and shed salary.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766722 is a reply to message #766714 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Goose wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 12:34

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 11:05

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 10:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:39

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26

What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.

I am not loving trading away a first in a deep draft and I am of the opinion that if they had a better goalie than Smith to back up Koskinen, I think they could be OK. Koskinen did put up a .917% behind the Oilers defense which isn't world beaters and I think their defense will continue to get better. But Kuemper has been really, really good and could be high end.

I'd consider a 1st, Russell/other small asset if required for Kuemper. Cap has to go back to Coyotes because cap space is HUGELY valuable. The only reason I swapped Russell for Larsson is for salary. There were stories of the Coyotes players not getting per diem money in the bubble and guys not getting their bonus cheques on time. So I have to think a player not making in salary their cap hit would be worth a lot to the owner.

We need to think about when the player taken at 14 will actually benefit the team. Broberg was last year, he's two years away or more. Bouchard before that, might get a sniff this year. Yams took 2.5 years to make the team. We'll know the JP scenario. So this player might not be an NHL roster player until 2023-24 or later. McDavid would have 2 or 3 years left at that point. Team has to consider a trade to get better now.


Yes. I loathe how much lack of urgency the Oilers have had at getting better during McDavid and Draisaitl's prime years.

Shop the pick if you can make the team better, just trade it for somebody better than Griffin Reinhart.

I imagine the Oilers would have had a pretty good team if they kept Hall, traded the Puljujarvi pick for a defenseman (rumour was that NYR offered McDonagh). But nahhh gotta keep holding onto lottery tickets while you have not one but two of the best players in the world.


Agreed. If it's not a top 5 pick, the Oilers should be trading their first round pick every year at this point, and using those trades to both get better and shed salary.


While I agree with this in principle, I don't think I'd trade it for an injury prone 30-year old goalie who didn't show much until the last couple of years. There's a price where I might bite the bullet and go for Kuemper, especially if I've confirmed some of the better options are either too expensive or not on the market. However, I think a 1st rounder is too much, especially given that you're only getting 2 years under team control.

If we're going to be one of the first to move on the goalie market, I'd hope we're getting one of the best options. I see Kuemper as a fall-back choice at best, so a deal for him at this point would be problematic to me. I would be left hoping there was another shoe to drop for the team or it would be another disappointing off-season.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766724 is a reply to message #766722 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 13:21

Goose wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 12:34

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 11:05

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 10:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:39

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26

What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.

I am not loving trading away a first in a deep draft and I am of the opinion that if they had a better goalie than Smith to back up Koskinen, I think they could be OK. Koskinen did put up a .917% behind the Oilers defense which isn't world beaters and I think their defense will continue to get better. But Kuemper has been really, really good and could be high end.

I'd consider a 1st, Russell/other small asset if required for Kuemper. Cap has to go back to Coyotes because cap space is HUGELY valuable. The only reason I swapped Russell for Larsson is for salary. There were stories of the Coyotes players not getting per diem money in the bubble and guys not getting their bonus cheques on time. So I have to think a player not making in salary their cap hit would be worth a lot to the owner.

We need to think about when the player taken at 14 will actually benefit the team. Broberg was last year, he's two years away or more. Bouchard before that, might get a sniff this year. Yams took 2.5 years to make the team. We'll know the JP scenario. So this player might not be an NHL roster player until 2023-24 or later. McDavid would have 2 or 3 years left at that point. Team has to consider a trade to get better now.


Yes. I loathe how much lack of urgency the Oilers have had at getting better during McDavid and Draisaitl's prime years.

Shop the pick if you can make the team better, just trade it for somebody better than Griffin Reinhart.

I imagine the Oilers would have had a pretty good team if they kept Hall, traded the Puljujarvi pick for a defenseman (rumour was that NYR offered McDonagh). But nahhh gotta keep holding onto lottery tickets while you have not one but two of the best players in the world.


Agreed. If it's not a top 5 pick, the Oilers should be trading their first round pick every year at this point, and using those trades to both get better and shed salary.


While I agree with this in principle, I don't think I'd trade it for an injury prone 30-year old goalie who didn't show much until the last couple of years. There's a price where I might bite the bullet and go for Kuemper, especially if I've confirmed some of the better options are either too expensive or not on the market. However, I think a 1st rounder is too much, especially given that you're only getting 2 years under team control.

If we're going to be one of the first to move on the goalie market, I'd hope we're getting one of the best options. I see Kuemper as a fall-back choice at best, so a deal for him at this point would be problematic to me. I would be left hoping there was another shoe to drop for the team or it would be another disappointing off-season.

What do you consider a good season if you think Kuemper hasn't shown much in the last 2 years?

18-19 - 55 games. 2.33 GA and a .925%
19-20 - 29 games. 2.22 GA. and a .928%

What do you consider good numbers if you don't think he's shown much over the last few years and who exactly is better on the goalie market? Please don't tell you you think soon to be 36 yr old, Fleury at 7 mill is better.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766726 is a reply to message #766724 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 13:44

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 13:21

Goose wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 12:34

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 11:05

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 10:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:39

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26

What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.

I am not loving trading away a first in a deep draft and I am of the opinion that if they had a better goalie than Smith to back up Koskinen, I think they could be OK. Koskinen did put up a .917% behind the Oilers defense which isn't world beaters and I think their defense will continue to get better. But Kuemper has been really, really good and could be high end.

I'd consider a 1st, Russell/other small asset if required for Kuemper. Cap has to go back to Coyotes because cap space is HUGELY valuable. The only reason I swapped Russell for Larsson is for salary. There were stories of the Coyotes players not getting per diem money in the bubble and guys not getting their bonus cheques on time. So I have to think a player not making in salary their cap hit would be worth a lot to the owner.

We need to think about when the player taken at 14 will actually benefit the team. Broberg was last year, he's two years away or more. Bouchard before that, might get a sniff this year. Yams took 2.5 years to make the team. We'll know the JP scenario. So this player might not be an NHL roster player until 2023-24 or later. McDavid would have 2 or 3 years left at that point. Team has to consider a trade to get better now.


Yes. I loathe how much lack of urgency the Oilers have had at getting better during McDavid and Draisaitl's prime years.

Shop the pick if you can make the team better, just trade it for somebody better than Griffin Reinhart.

I imagine the Oilers would have had a pretty good team if they kept Hall, traded the Puljujarvi pick for a defenseman (rumour was that NYR offered McDonagh). But nahhh gotta keep holding onto lottery tickets while you have not one but two of the best players in the world.


Agreed. If it's not a top 5 pick, the Oilers should be trading their first round pick every year at this point, and using those trades to both get better and shed salary.


While I agree with this in principle, I don't think I'd trade it for an injury prone 30-year old goalie who didn't show much until the last couple of years. There's a price where I might bite the bullet and go for Kuemper, especially if I've confirmed some of the better options are either too expensive or not on the market. However, I think a 1st rounder is too much, especially given that you're only getting 2 years under team control.

If we're going to be one of the first to move on the goalie market, I'd hope we're getting one of the best options. I see Kuemper as a fall-back choice at best, so a deal for him at this point would be problematic to me. I would be left hoping there was another shoe to drop for the team or it would be another disappointing off-season.

What do you consider a good season if you think Kuemper hasn't shown much in the last 2 years?

18-19 - 55 games. 2.33 GA and a .925%
19-20 - 29 games. 2.22 GA. and a .928%

What do you consider good numbers if you don't think he's shown much over the last few years and who exactly is better on the goalie market? Please don't tell you you think soon to be 36 yr old, Fleury at 7 mill is better.


I've highlighted the key word that you missed in my above post.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766727 is a reply to message #766726 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 13:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 13:44

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 13:21

Goose wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 12:34

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 11:05

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 10:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:39

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:26

What about the other way around? Adam Larsson going to Arizona in a deal involving Kuemper.

I am not loving trading away a first in a deep draft and I am of the opinion that if they had a better goalie than Smith to back up Koskinen, I think they could be OK. Koskinen did put up a .917% behind the Oilers defense which isn't world beaters and I think their defense will continue to get better. But Kuemper has been really, really good and could be high end.

I'd consider a 1st, Russell/other small asset if required for Kuemper. Cap has to go back to Coyotes because cap space is HUGELY valuable. The only reason I swapped Russell for Larsson is for salary. There were stories of the Coyotes players not getting per diem money in the bubble and guys not getting their bonus cheques on time. So I have to think a player not making in salary their cap hit would be worth a lot to the owner.

We need to think about when the player taken at 14 will actually benefit the team. Broberg was last year, he's two years away or more. Bouchard before that, might get a sniff this year. Yams took 2.5 years to make the team. We'll know the JP scenario. So this player might not be an NHL roster player until 2023-24 or later. McDavid would have 2 or 3 years left at that point. Team has to consider a trade to get better now.


Yes. I loathe how much lack of urgency the Oilers have had at getting better during McDavid and Draisaitl's prime years.

Shop the pick if you can make the team better, just trade it for somebody better than Griffin Reinhart.

I imagine the Oilers would have had a pretty good team if they kept Hall, traded the Puljujarvi pick for a defenseman (rumour was that NYR offered McDonagh). But nahhh gotta keep holding onto lottery tickets while you have not one but two of the best players in the world.


Agreed. If it's not a top 5 pick, the Oilers should be trading their first round pick every year at this point, and using those trades to both get better and shed salary.


While I agree with this in principle, I don't think I'd trade it for an injury prone 30-year old goalie who didn't show much until the last couple of years. There's a price where I might bite the bullet and go for Kuemper, especially if I've confirmed some of the better options are either too expensive or not on the market. However, I think a 1st rounder is too much, especially given that you're only getting 2 years under team control.

If we're going to be one of the first to move on the goalie market, I'd hope we're getting one of the best options. I see Kuemper as a fall-back choice at best, so a deal for him at this point would be problematic to me. I would be left hoping there was another shoe to drop for the team or it would be another disappointing off-season.

What do you consider a good season if you think Kuemper hasn't shown much in the last 2 years?

18-19 - 55 games. 2.33 GA and a .925%
19-20 - 29 games. 2.22 GA. and a .928%

What do you consider good numbers if you don't think he's shown much over the last few years and who exactly is better on the goalie market? Please don't tell you you think soon to be 36 yr old, Fleury at 7 mill is better.


I've highlighted the key word that you missed in my above post.


I didn't miss the key word, I didn't feel it was relevant. He has a career 2.46 and a .918 so it's not like he's been a bad goalie up until the last 2 years. He's been above average his whole career and outstanding the last 2 seasons. If Koskinen can put up a .917 on the Oilers, I would think there is a pretty good chance a goalie like Kuemper with his apparent upside that he's shown over the last 2 seasons could do pretty well. In all likelihood just on gaining more experience will get better.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 September 2020 14:04]


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766728 is a reply to message #766726 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).




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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766729 is a reply to message #766728 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03

His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).


Adam makes him out to be lousy up until 2 years ago and it's simply not true. I am not a huge fan of trading the pick either but at the same time, you have to improve the team and should be adding to what looks like a decent core. Who ever they draft at 14 is probably 2-3 years from even making the NHL. If the Oilers key players were all guys well over 30 then it doesn't make sense to trade the first but their best players, other than Nuge are 25 and under.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766734 is a reply to message #766729 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:08

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03

His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).


Adam makes him out to be lousy up until 2 years ago and it's simply not true. I am not a huge fan of trading the pick either but at the same time, you have to improve the team and should be adding to what looks like a decent core. Who ever they draft at 14 is probably 2-3 years from even making the NHL. If the Oilers key players were all guys well over 30 then it doesn't make sense to trade the first but their best players, other than Nuge are 25 and under.


What an eye-rollingly bad take.

You'll notice, I did not say Kuemper was junk or that I wouldn't have him here - rather that I think there are better options and that I wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him. I'm sorry if that offended your delicate sensibilities.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766735 is a reply to message #766734 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:08

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03

His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).


Adam makes him out to be lousy up until 2 years ago and it's simply not true. I am not a huge fan of trading the pick either but at the same time, you have to improve the team and should be adding to what looks like a decent core. Who ever they draft at 14 is probably 2-3 years from even making the NHL. If the Oilers key players were all guys well over 30 then it doesn't make sense to trade the first but their best players, other than Nuge are 25 and under.


What an eye-rollingly bad take.

You'll notice, I did not say Kuemper was junk or that I wouldn't have him here - rather that I think there are better options and that I wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him. I'm sorry if that offended your delicate sensibilities.

I'll ask a again WHO'S BETTER???? Why don't you just stick with the conversation instead of taking shots at me about not reading your post and throwing insults my way.

He's a career .918 which is above average and has posted .925 and .928 the last 2 years. So who's got better numbers than that, that you could actually go out and get?

[Updated on: Wed, 16 September 2020 16:02]


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766737 is a reply to message #766735 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:52

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:08

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03

His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).


Adam makes him out to be lousy up until 2 years ago and it's simply not true. I am not a huge fan of trading the pick either but at the same time, you have to improve the team and should be adding to what looks like a decent core. Who ever they draft at 14 is probably 2-3 years from even making the NHL. If the Oilers key players were all guys well over 30 then it doesn't make sense to trade the first but their best players, other than Nuge are 25 and under.


What an eye-rollingly bad take.

You'll notice, I did not say Kuemper was junk or that I wouldn't have him here - rather that I think there are better options and that I wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him. I'm sorry if that offended your delicate sensibilities.

I'll ask a again WHO'S BETTER???? Why don't you just stick with the conversation instead of taking shots at me about not reading your post and throwing insults my way.

He's a career .918 which is above average and has posted .925 and .928 the last 2 years. So who's got better numbers than that, that you could actually go out and get?


I've had multiple posts in multiple threads about who I'd look for as a goalie. Ideally, I'd be looking for someone where he's still RFA when his current deal expires. That way he's A) not too expensive now and B) he's under team control for several years. Given that we're wasting $4.5MM on the back-up right now, we may need some fiscal sanity on the first string guy so that we can afford to address other pressing concerns as well this off-season.

Kuemper isn't high on my list because:

A) he's 30
B) he's really only had one season as a starter despite his advancing age
C) with two years left on his deal, we're back to needing a new goalie pretty soon
D) he's injury prone including missing half a season this year.

If he was the only option, he's still a hell of a lot better than bringing back Mike Smith, but a first round pick is a big price to pay. Remember we got Talbot for a couple seconds.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766741 is a reply to message #766737 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:52

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:08

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03

His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).


Adam makes him out to be lousy up until 2 years ago and it's simply not true. I am not a huge fan of trading the pick either but at the same time, you have to improve the team and should be adding to what looks like a decent core. Who ever they draft at 14 is probably 2-3 years from even making the NHL. If the Oilers key players were all guys well over 30 then it doesn't make sense to trade the first but their best players, other than Nuge are 25 and under.


What an eye-rollingly bad take.

You'll notice, I did not say Kuemper was junk or that I wouldn't have him here - rather that I think there are better options and that I wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him. I'm sorry if that offended your delicate sensibilities.

I'll ask a again WHO'S BETTER???? Why don't you just stick with the conversation instead of taking shots at me about not reading your post and throwing insults my way.

He's a career .918 which is above average and has posted .925 and .928 the last 2 years. So who's got better numbers than that, that you could actually go out and get?


I've had multiple posts in multiple threads about who I'd look for as a goalie. Ideally, I'd be looking for someone where he's still RFA when his current deal expires. That way he's A) not too expensive now and B) he's under team control for several years. Given that we're wasting $4.5MM on the back-up right now, we may need some fiscal sanity on the first string guy so that we can afford to address other pressing concerns as well this off-season.

Kuemper isn't high on my list because:

A) he's 30
B) he's really only had one season as a starter despite his advancing age
C) with two years left on his deal, we're back to needing a new goalie pretty soon
D) he's injury prone including missing half a season this year.

If he was the only option, he's still a hell of a lot better than bringing back Mike Smith, but a first round pick is a big price to pay. Remember we got Talbot for a couple seconds.

Great, thanks for the half answer. All you did was give reasons why Kuemper wouldn't be your choice then fire off requirements for a goalie who may or may not exist but don't bother to give a name. I guess if all you do is never give a definitive answer to any question, you can never be wrong.

According to your criteria you want a young, cheap, signed, proven goalie who when they are done their cheap deal, they are still and RFA. Are you brave enough to give a name of this unicorn because in all honestly, I can't think of a single guy in the NHL who fits your requirements.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 September 2020 16:19]


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766747 is a reply to message #766741 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 16:14

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:52

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:08

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03

His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).


Adam makes him out to be lousy up until 2 years ago and it's simply not true. I am not a huge fan of trading the pick either but at the same time, you have to improve the team and should be adding to what looks like a decent core. Who ever they draft at 14 is probably 2-3 years from even making the NHL. If the Oilers key players were all guys well over 30 then it doesn't make sense to trade the first but their best players, other than Nuge are 25 and under.


What an eye-rollingly bad take.

You'll notice, I did not say Kuemper was junk or that I wouldn't have him here - rather that I think there are better options and that I wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him. I'm sorry if that offended your delicate sensibilities.

I'll ask a again WHO'S BETTER???? Why don't you just stick with the conversation instead of taking shots at me about not reading your post and throwing insults my way.

He's a career .918 which is above average and has posted .925 and .928 the last 2 years. So who's got better numbers than that, that you could actually go out and get?


I've had multiple posts in multiple threads about who I'd look for as a goalie. Ideally, I'd be looking for someone where he's still RFA when his current deal expires. That way he's A) not too expensive now and B) he's under team control for several years. Given that we're wasting $4.5MM on the back-up right now, we may need some fiscal sanity on the first string guy so that we can afford to address other pressing concerns as well this off-season.

Kuemper isn't high on my list because:

A) he's 30
B) he's really only had one season as a starter despite his advancing age
C) with two years left on his deal, we're back to needing a new goalie pretty soon
D) he's injury prone including missing half a season this year.

If he was the only option, he's still a hell of a lot better than bringing back Mike Smith, but a first round pick is a big price to pay. Remember we got Talbot for a couple seconds.

Great, thanks for the half answer. All you did was give reasons why Kuemper wouldn't be your choice then fire off requirements for a goalie who may or may not exist but don't bother to give a name. I guess if all you do is never give a definitive answer to any question, you can never be wrong.

According to your criteria you want a young, cheap, signed, proven goalie who when they are done their cheap deal, they are still and RFA. Are you brave enough to give a name of this unicorn because in all honestly, I can't think of a single guy in the NHL who fits your requirements.


I've said all along that my first targets would be one of the two Russians with New York. Failing that, I might try to see if either of the Blue Jackets guys or Colorado's guys can be popped loose.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766750 is a reply to message #766747 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 16:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 16:14

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:52

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:08

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03

His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).


Adam makes him out to be lousy up until 2 years ago and it's simply not true. I am not a huge fan of trading the pick either but at the same time, you have to improve the team and should be adding to what looks like a decent core. Who ever they draft at 14 is probably 2-3 years from even making the NHL. If the Oilers key players were all guys well over 30 then it doesn't make sense to trade the first but their best players, other than Nuge are 25 and under.


What an eye-rollingly bad take.

You'll notice, I did not say Kuemper was junk or that I wouldn't have him here - rather that I think there are better options and that I wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him. I'm sorry if that offended your delicate sensibilities.

I'll ask a again WHO'S BETTER???? Why don't you just stick with the conversation instead of taking shots at me about not reading your post and throwing insults my way.

He's a career .918 which is above average and has posted .925 and .928 the last 2 years. So who's got better numbers than that, that you could actually go out and get?


I've had multiple posts in multiple threads about who I'd look for as a goalie. Ideally, I'd be looking for someone where he's still RFA when his current deal expires. That way he's A) not too expensive now and B) he's under team control for several years. Given that we're wasting $4.5MM on the back-up right now, we may need some fiscal sanity on the first string guy so that we can afford to address other pressing concerns as well this off-season.

Kuemper isn't high on my list because:

A) he's 30
B) he's really only had one season as a starter despite his advancing age
C) with two years left on his deal, we're back to needing a new goalie pretty soon
D) he's injury prone including missing half a season this year.

If he was the only option, he's still a hell of a lot better than bringing back Mike Smith, but a first round pick is a big price to pay. Remember we got Talbot for a couple seconds.

Great, thanks for the half answer. All you did was give reasons why Kuemper wouldn't be your choice then fire off requirements for a goalie who may or may not exist but don't bother to give a name. I guess if all you do is never give a definitive answer to any question, you can never be wrong.

According to your criteria you want a young, cheap, signed, proven goalie who when they are done their cheap deal, they are still and RFA. Are you brave enough to give a name of this unicorn because in all honestly, I can't think of a single guy in the NHL who fits your requirements.


I've said all along that my first targets would be one of the two Russians with New York. Failing that, I might try to see if either of the Blue Jackets guys or Colorado's guys can be popped loose.

None of the Columbus guys meet your criterial.
Korposalo has 127 starts total.
Merzlikins has 33 NHL starts. None of them have been a full time starters for long.

You said a knock on Kuemper was his lack of starts, he has 215 starts. You also required that your guy was under contract AND an RFA so you have control for the next contract. You listed Kuemper and only have 2 years before he is a UFA as a problem. Both Columbus guys have 2 years then are UFA's. So you'd have the same problem as Kuemper. Trading away assets for unproven guys (they are less proven than Kuemper) who in 2 years could walk and you are left with nothing. So both don't meet the criteria you listed.

Rangers guys. Shesterkin is signed for under 1 mill and will be an RFA at the end of his contract but he has 12 NHL stats. That's it. So if Kuempers 215 starts isn't enough for you, how can 12 be OK?
Georgiev has 77 NHL starts. He currently isn't signed so I am assuming unless you lock him up long term, a short contract means he would be an RFA. But again, has way, way, way less starts. Kuemper has almost 3 times as many starts yet you said that wasn't enough. So how you be OK with Georgiev and his 77?

So none of the guys meet your criteria.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 September 2020 16:52]


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766752 is a reply to message #766750 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 16:47

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 16:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 16:14

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:52

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 15:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:08

GabbyDugan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:03

His career stats don't look too bad to me.. Playing behind Dubnyk and then Mike Smith when they were at their peak could be a factor.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102649

I'm not a big fan of trading away the 1st rounder for a veteran. The Oilers have drafted well when they select in the middle of round 1, compared with getting the first or near first overall (McDavid, of course, excluded from this generalization). A good veteran is going to be expensive, and an entry level guy might take a while but turn out fine in the long run. (Bear, Yamamoto).


Adam makes him out to be lousy up until 2 years ago and it's simply not true. I am not a huge fan of trading the pick either but at the same time, you have to improve the team and should be adding to what looks like a decent core. Who ever they draft at 14 is probably 2-3 years from even making the NHL. If the Oilers key players were all guys well over 30 then it doesn't make sense to trade the first but their best players, other than Nuge are 25 and under.


What an eye-rollingly bad take.

You'll notice, I did not say Kuemper was junk or that I wouldn't have him here - rather that I think there are better options and that I wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him. I'm sorry if that offended your delicate sensibilities.

I'll ask a again WHO'S BETTER???? Why don't you just stick with the conversation instead of taking shots at me about not reading your post and throwing insults my way.

He's a career .918 which is above average and has posted .925 and .928 the last 2 years. So who's got better numbers than that, that you could actually go out and get?


I've had multiple posts in multiple threads about who I'd look for as a goalie. Ideally, I'd be looking for someone where he's still RFA when his current deal expires. That way he's A) not too expensive now and B) he's under team control for several years. Given that we're wasting $4.5MM on the back-up right now, we may need some fiscal sanity on the first string guy so that we can afford to address other pressing concerns as well this off-season.

Kuemper isn't high on my list because:

A) he's 30
B) he's really only had one season as a starter despite his advancing age
C) with two years left on his deal, we're back to needing a new goalie pretty soon
D) he's injury prone including missing half a season this year.

If he was the only option, he's still a hell of a lot better than bringing back Mike Smith, but a first round pick is a big price to pay. Remember we got Talbot for a couple seconds.

Great, thanks for the half answer. All you did was give reasons why Kuemper wouldn't be your choice then fire off requirements for a goalie who may or may not exist but don't bother to give a name. I guess if all you do is never give a definitive answer to any question, you can never be wrong.

According to your criteria you want a young, cheap, signed, proven goalie who when they are done their cheap deal, they are still and RFA. Are you brave enough to give a name of this unicorn because in all honestly, I can't think of a single guy in the NHL who fits your requirements.


I've said all along that my first targets would be one of the two Russians with New York. Failing that, I might try to see if either of the Blue Jackets guys or Colorado's guys can be popped loose.

None of the Columbus guys meet your criterial.
Korposalo has 127 starts total.
Merzlikins has 33 NHL starts. None of them have been a full time starters for long.

You said a knock on Kuemper was his lack of starts, he has 215 starts. You also required that your guy was under contract AND an RFA so you have control for the next contract. You listed Kuemper and only have 2 years before he is a UFA as a problem. Both Columbus guys have 2 years then are UFA's. So you'd have the same problem as Kuemper. Trading away assets for unproven guys (they are less proven than Kuemper) who in 2 years could walk and you are left with nothing. So both don't meet the criteria you listed.

Rangers guys. Shesterkin is signed for under 1 mill and will be an RFA at the end of his contract but he has 12 NHL stats. That's it. So if Kuempers 215 starts isn't enough for you, how can 12 be OK?
Georgiev has 77 NHL starts. He currently isn't signed so I am assuming unless you lock him up long term, a short contract means he would be an RFA. But again, has way, way, way less starts. Kuemper has almost 3 times as many starts yet you said that wasn't enough. So how you be OK with Georgiev and his 77?

So none of the guys meet your criteria.


I never said they had to be a long-time NHL starter AND a young guy. I'm willing to bet on highly rated talent with some evidence based on their stats to date. There's also been some organizations who've done better at developing goaltenders in recent years and both the Rangers and Blue Jackets are in that category.

I think someone like Shersterkin is a better bet than Kuemper for success, and I think you have him for longer if he's successful.

The Oilers did a similar deal in 2015 when they traded for Cam Talbot. He had 57 NHL appearances to his name at that time, but he played more than that his first season. It's a better route.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766730 is a reply to message #766722 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 12:21


While I agree with this in principle, I don't think I'd trade it for an injury prone 30-year old goalie who didn't show much until the last couple of years. There's a price where I might bite the bullet and go for Kuemper, especially if I've confirmed some of the better options are either too expensive or not on the market. However, I think a 1st rounder is too much, especially given that you're only getting 2 years under team control.

If we're going to be one of the first to move on the goalie market, I'd hope we're getting one of the best options. I see Kuemper as a fall-back choice at best, so a deal for him at this point would be problematic to me. I would be left hoping there was another shoe to drop for the team or it would be another disappointing off-season.


Ya, this is fair, injuries definitely a concern with Kuemper, also the lack of really having shown he can carry the load over multiple full seasons.

I think goalie is the most straightforward areas where the Oilers can improve this year, and with, I think, what will be a decent market.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766736 is a reply to message #766730 ]
Wed, 16 September 2020 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Goose wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 14:29

Adam wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 12:21


While I agree with this in principle, I don't think I'd trade it for an injury prone 30-year old goalie who didn't show much until the last couple of years. There's a price where I might bite the bullet and go for Kuemper, especially if I've confirmed some of the better options are either too expensive or not on the market. However, I think a 1st rounder is too much, especially given that you're only getting 2 years under team control.

If we're going to be one of the first to move on the goalie market, I'd hope we're getting one of the best options. I see Kuemper as a fall-back choice at best, so a deal for him at this point would be problematic to me. I would be left hoping there was another shoe to drop for the team or it would be another disappointing off-season.


Ya, this is fair, injuries definitely a concern with Kuemper, also the lack of really having shown he can carry the load over multiple full seasons.

I think goalie is the most straightforward areas where the Oilers can improve this year, and with, I think, what will be a decent market.


Yeah, I think there are more options than their are teams that need a netminder, and no one is overpaying on a second goaltender ahead of an expansion draft where they might lose that guy for nothing.

Of the teams that need goalies, several are the league's bottom feeders and it's unlikely they'll pay a premium for a netminder in the middle of a rebuild.

I think things are lining up that you should be able to choose between several decent goalies and get them at a reasonable price (or get Holtby and pay a king's ransom).



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766803 is a reply to message #766684 ]
Thu, 17 September 2020 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:12

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

I don't see any trade involving OEL unless the Coyotes eat some salary, otherwise its a bad trade for the Oilers. OEL is a good dman but he isn't an 8.25 mill dman, definitely not a 8.25 mill dman for 7 more years. He had 30 pts in 66 games, that's a 37 pt season. He's a marginal upgrade on Klefbom or Nurse. I get you dislike Nurse but Nurse is one of the better 5 on 5 scorers in the league. If OEL did come to the Oilers, I don't see him being on the PP. You have Bouchard and that is his skill set and he's a right shot when all your premium players are left shots. If you are paying a dman 8.25 mill, you better be getting more than 30-40 pts which is all he's been putting up and with Bouchard, OEL is probably on your second unit. So he won't be putting up the points to remotely justify paying him that much.

On top of it, if they didn't retain salary, they Oilers are taking away the horrible OEL contract AND doing them another favor and taking on the 6.5 mill of Stephan. So the trade is a mid round first in a really good draft, a younger, cheaper, top 3, not even at his peak yet, 35 pt 5 on 5 dman, a 15 goal scorer, you get Russell who people call it a contract dump, the guy can play and he saves your owner 2.5 mill which is a big deal for them, PLUS 4 mill in cap space for a decent but extremely overpriced, over term dman, a grossly over paid 3rd line center and a good goalie. If I am the Coyotes, I couldn't send that paperwork into the league fast enough.

I appreciate the attempt at coming up with a trade but I am not sure you are taking into account the value of cap space. Teams literally trade overpaid but still good players and at times add high picks or prospects just to get rid of a their cap hit for space. So the 4 mill the Oilers would be taking on is HUGE and worth a lot. I wouldn't even trade OEL for Nurse or Klefbom straight up just because while a slight upgrade, he's not enough of an upgrade to justify paying him that much more in salary. Even Stephan for Russell, it would have to be Stephan + for Russell because of the 2.5 mill extra in cap space on top of the fact that you are saving your team 2.5 mill in real money which these days is a big deal for some owners.


I don’t dislike Nurse as much as I believe their are better defensemen out there that could be had. OEL is a better all around dman. He’s a leader. He would play the PP. Bouchard will not jump into the league running the power play full time. He might not even start the season in the NHL.

I do value cap space. Stepan deal is more focussed on next years cap space rather than this shortened abbreviated season. I think next year will be even a better opportunity to land deals as their won’t be a lot of revenue coming in from attendance.

My deal did not have a lot of thought out into it, but the root of it is we need to upgrade the D. No veteran is untouchable. We need to shed to shed some bad long term contracts. If taking a Derek Stepan back for one season to lose 2 additional seasons of Neal, while filling a void at centre for this year, then you gotta do it.

Cap space is important this year, but it’s more important long term when you’ve got Nuge going into UFA soon.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766805 is a reply to message #766803 ]
Thu, 17 September 2020 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:12

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

I don't see any trade involving OEL unless the Coyotes eat some salary, otherwise its a bad trade for the Oilers. OEL is a good dman but he isn't an 8.25 mill dman, definitely not a 8.25 mill dman for 7 more years. He had 30 pts in 66 games, that's a 37 pt season. He's a marginal upgrade on Klefbom or Nurse. I get you dislike Nurse but Nurse is one of the better 5 on 5 scorers in the league. If OEL did come to the Oilers, I don't see him being on the PP. You have Bouchard and that is his skill set and he's a right shot when all your premium players are left shots. If you are paying a dman 8.25 mill, you better be getting more than 30-40 pts which is all he's been putting up and with Bouchard, OEL is probably on your second unit. So he won't be putting up the points to remotely justify paying him that much.

On top of it, if they didn't retain salary, they Oilers are taking away the horrible OEL contract AND doing them another favor and taking on the 6.5 mill of Stephan. So the trade is a mid round first in a really good draft, a younger, cheaper, top 3, not even at his peak yet, 35 pt 5 on 5 dman, a 15 goal scorer, you get Russell who people call it a contract dump, the guy can play and he saves your owner 2.5 mill which is a big deal for them, PLUS 4 mill in cap space for a decent but extremely overpriced, over term dman, a grossly over paid 3rd line center and a good goalie. If I am the Coyotes, I couldn't send that paperwork into the league fast enough.

I appreciate the attempt at coming up with a trade but I am not sure you are taking into account the value of cap space. Teams literally trade overpaid but still good players and at times add high picks or prospects just to get rid of a their cap hit for space. So the 4 mill the Oilers would be taking on is HUGE and worth a lot. I wouldn't even trade OEL for Nurse or Klefbom straight up just because while a slight upgrade, he's not enough of an upgrade to justify paying him that much more in salary. Even Stephan for Russell, it would have to be Stephan + for Russell because of the 2.5 mill extra in cap space on top of the fact that you are saving your team 2.5 mill in real money which these days is a big deal for some owners.


I don’t dislike Nurse as much as I believe their are better defensemen out there that could be had. OEL is a better all around dman. He’s a leader. He would play the PP. Bouchard will not jump into the league running the power play full time. He might not even start the season in the NHL.

I do value cap space. Stepan deal is more focussed on next years cap space rather than this shortened abbreviated season. I think next year will be even a better opportunity to land deals as their won’t be a lot of revenue coming in from attendance.

My deal did not have a lot of thought out into it, but the root of it is we need to upgrade the D. No veteran is untouchable. We need to shed to shed some bad long term contracts. If taking a Derek Stepan back for one season to lose 2 additional seasons of Neal, while filling a void at centre for this year, then you gotta do it.

Cap space is important this year, but it’s more important long term when you’ve got Nuge going into UFA soon.

We will have to disagree then. OEL is 29 and only finished the first year of his contract. Is he a good player? You bet but is he elite? No he's not. Nothing about how he has played or his numbers for going on 4 seasons says he's elite, yet he's being paid to be elite. He's the 5th highest paid dman in the league. Taking out all the super rookies or the few guys that are really good who are on their ELC's, is OEL a top 5 dman in the league? Not even close but he's being paid like it. What's worse is that how he has been playing over the last 3-4 yrs which hasn't been that good, has been happening when he should be at his best, his prime years. A dman's prime years where he has gained enough experience, he's fully grown and developed are 25-32. He's 29. So he's played the bulk of his prime years already and they haven't been very good. He's going into year 2 of his deal that pays him 8.25 mill. So for the bulk of his contract, you are most likely getting declining years of hockey from him. Typically, most teams try to avoid paying their players big money for declining years. If he was making 6 mill, then sure make the trade but he's not a 2.6 mill better dman than Nurse especially since Nurse is just starting his prime years.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766811 is a reply to message #766805 ]
Thu, 17 September 2020 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:23

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:12

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

I don't see any trade involving OEL unless the Coyotes eat some salary, otherwise its a bad trade for the Oilers. OEL is a good dman but he isn't an 8.25 mill dman, definitely not a 8.25 mill dman for 7 more years. He had 30 pts in 66 games, that's a 37 pt season. He's a marginal upgrade on Klefbom or Nurse. I get you dislike Nurse but Nurse is one of the better 5 on 5 scorers in the league. If OEL did come to the Oilers, I don't see him being on the PP. You have Bouchard and that is his skill set and he's a right shot when all your premium players are left shots. If you are paying a dman 8.25 mill, you better be getting more than 30-40 pts which is all he's been putting up and with Bouchard, OEL is probably on your second unit. So he won't be putting up the points to remotely justify paying him that much.

On top of it, if they didn't retain salary, they Oilers are taking away the horrible OEL contract AND doing them another favor and taking on the 6.5 mill of Stephan. So the trade is a mid round first in a really good draft, a younger, cheaper, top 3, not even at his peak yet, 35 pt 5 on 5 dman, a 15 goal scorer, you get Russell who people call it a contract dump, the guy can play and he saves your owner 2.5 mill which is a big deal for them, PLUS 4 mill in cap space for a decent but extremely overpriced, over term dman, a grossly over paid 3rd line center and a good goalie. If I am the Coyotes, I couldn't send that paperwork into the league fast enough.

I appreciate the attempt at coming up with a trade but I am not sure you are taking into account the value of cap space. Teams literally trade overpaid but still good players and at times add high picks or prospects just to get rid of a their cap hit for space. So the 4 mill the Oilers would be taking on is HUGE and worth a lot. I wouldn't even trade OEL for Nurse or Klefbom straight up just because while a slight upgrade, he's not enough of an upgrade to justify paying him that much more in salary. Even Stephan for Russell, it would have to be Stephan + for Russell because of the 2.5 mill extra in cap space on top of the fact that you are saving your team 2.5 mill in real money which these days is a big deal for some owners.


I don’t dislike Nurse as much as I believe their are better defensemen out there that could be had. OEL is a better all around dman. He’s a leader. He would play the PP. Bouchard will not jump into the league running the power play full time. He might not even start the season in the NHL.

I do value cap space. Stepan deal is more focussed on next years cap space rather than this shortened abbreviated season. I think next year will be even a better opportunity to land deals as their won’t be a lot of revenue coming in from attendance.

My deal did not have a lot of thought out into it, but the root of it is we need to upgrade the D. No veteran is untouchable. We need to shed to shed some bad long term contracts. If taking a Derek Stepan back for one season to lose 2 additional seasons of Neal, while filling a void at centre for this year, then you gotta do it.

Cap space is important this year, but it’s more important long term when you’ve got Nuge going into UFA soon.

We will have to disagree then. OEL is 29 and only finished the first year of his contract. Is he a good player? You bet but is he elite? No he's not. Nothing about how he has played or his numbers for going on 4 seasons says he's elite, yet he's being paid to be elite. He's the 5th highest paid dman in the league. Taking out all the super rookies or the few guys that are really good who are on their ELC's, is OEL a top 5 dman in the league? Not even close but he's being paid like it. What's worse is that how he has been playing over the last 3-4 yrs which hasn't been that good, has been happening when he should be at his best, his prime years. A dman's prime years where he has gained enough experience, he's fully grown and developed are 25-32. He's 29. So he's played the bulk of his prime years already and they haven't been very good. He's going into year 2 of his deal that pays him 8.25 mill. So for the bulk of his contract, you are most likely getting declining years of hockey from him. Typically, most teams try to avoid paying their players big money for declining years. If he was making 6 mill, then sure make the trade but he's not a 2.6 mill better dman than Nurse especially since Nurse is just starting his prime years.

While I think OEL has a bit more to give than RDOF does, it is surprising that Chayka, who everyone saw as an analytics wiz, signed such a long term deal when it clearly does include years of decline at some point.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766814 is a reply to message #766811 ]
Thu, 17 September 2020 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 14:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:23

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:12

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

I don't see any trade involving OEL unless the Coyotes eat some salary, otherwise its a bad trade for the Oilers. OEL is a good dman but he isn't an 8.25 mill dman, definitely not a 8.25 mill dman for 7 more years. He had 30 pts in 66 games, that's a 37 pt season. He's a marginal upgrade on Klefbom or Nurse. I get you dislike Nurse but Nurse is one of the better 5 on 5 scorers in the league. If OEL did come to the Oilers, I don't see him being on the PP. You have Bouchard and that is his skill set and he's a right shot when all your premium players are left shots. If you are paying a dman 8.25 mill, you better be getting more than 30-40 pts which is all he's been putting up and with Bouchard, OEL is probably on your second unit. So he won't be putting up the points to remotely justify paying him that much.

On top of it, if they didn't retain salary, they Oilers are taking away the horrible OEL contract AND doing them another favor and taking on the 6.5 mill of Stephan. So the trade is a mid round first in a really good draft, a younger, cheaper, top 3, not even at his peak yet, 35 pt 5 on 5 dman, a 15 goal scorer, you get Russell who people call it a contract dump, the guy can play and he saves your owner 2.5 mill which is a big deal for them, PLUS 4 mill in cap space for a decent but extremely overpriced, over term dman, a grossly over paid 3rd line center and a good goalie. If I am the Coyotes, I couldn't send that paperwork into the league fast enough.

I appreciate the attempt at coming up with a trade but I am not sure you are taking into account the value of cap space. Teams literally trade overpaid but still good players and at times add high picks or prospects just to get rid of a their cap hit for space. So the 4 mill the Oilers would be taking on is HUGE and worth a lot. I wouldn't even trade OEL for Nurse or Klefbom straight up just because while a slight upgrade, he's not enough of an upgrade to justify paying him that much more in salary. Even Stephan for Russell, it would have to be Stephan + for Russell because of the 2.5 mill extra in cap space on top of the fact that you are saving your team 2.5 mill in real money which these days is a big deal for some owners.


I don’t dislike Nurse as much as I believe their are better defensemen out there that could be had. OEL is a better all around dman. He’s a leader. He would play the PP. Bouchard will not jump into the league running the power play full time. He might not even start the season in the NHL.

I do value cap space. Stepan deal is more focussed on next years cap space rather than this shortened abbreviated season. I think next year will be even a better opportunity to land deals as their won’t be a lot of revenue coming in from attendance.

My deal did not have a lot of thought out into it, but the root of it is we need to upgrade the D. No veteran is untouchable. We need to shed to shed some bad long term contracts. If taking a Derek Stepan back for one season to lose 2 additional seasons of Neal, while filling a void at centre for this year, then you gotta do it.

Cap space is important this year, but it’s more important long term when you’ve got Nuge going into UFA soon.

We will have to disagree then. OEL is 29 and only finished the first year of his contract. Is he a good player? You bet but is he elite? No he's not. Nothing about how he has played or his numbers for going on 4 seasons says he's elite, yet he's being paid to be elite. He's the 5th highest paid dman in the league. Taking out all the super rookies or the few guys that are really good who are on their ELC's, is OEL a top 5 dman in the league? Not even close but he's being paid like it. What's worse is that how he has been playing over the last 3-4 yrs which hasn't been that good, has been happening when he should be at his best, his prime years. A dman's prime years where he has gained enough experience, he's fully grown and developed are 25-32. He's 29. So he's played the bulk of his prime years already and they haven't been very good. He's going into year 2 of his deal that pays him 8.25 mill. So for the bulk of his contract, you are most likely getting declining years of hockey from him. Typically, most teams try to avoid paying their players big money for declining years. If he was making 6 mill, then sure make the trade but he's not a 2.6 mill better dman than Nurse especially since Nurse is just starting his prime years.

While I think OEL has a bit more to give than RDOF does, it is surprising that Chayka, who everyone saw as an analytics wiz, signed such a long term deal when it clearly does include years of decline at some point.


I’m not so hard OEL either and truthfully I’m not that hard on Nurse. My only issue with Nurse is in between the ears. If Nurse’s issues were skating, conditioning or toughness I know he could work through it. Can’t fix a broken toolbox.

OEL is just an example of I guy I’d look to improve the team. Ideally they are not signed through to infinity, but Nurse is an asset I’d move because of his perceived value.

Luckily for RDOF Stauffer hints to Klefbom being the odd man out.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766820 is a reply to message #766814 ]
Thu, 17 September 2020 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 15:18

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 14:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:23

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:12

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

I don't see any trade involving OEL unless the Coyotes eat some salary, otherwise its a bad trade for the Oilers. OEL is a good dman but he isn't an 8.25 mill dman, definitely not a 8.25 mill dman for 7 more years. He had 30 pts in 66 games, that's a 37 pt season. He's a marginal upgrade on Klefbom or Nurse. I get you dislike Nurse but Nurse is one of the better 5 on 5 scorers in the league. If OEL did come to the Oilers, I don't see him being on the PP. You have Bouchard and that is his skill set and he's a right shot when all your premium players are left shots. If you are paying a dman 8.25 mill, you better be getting more than 30-40 pts which is all he's been putting up and with Bouchard, OEL is probably on your second unit. So he won't be putting up the points to remotely justify paying him that much.

On top of it, if they didn't retain salary, they Oilers are taking away the horrible OEL contract AND doing them another favor and taking on the 6.5 mill of Stephan. So the trade is a mid round first in a really good draft, a younger, cheaper, top 3, not even at his peak yet, 35 pt 5 on 5 dman, a 15 goal scorer, you get Russell who people call it a contract dump, the guy can play and he saves your owner 2.5 mill which is a big deal for them, PLUS 4 mill in cap space for a decent but extremely overpriced, over term dman, a grossly over paid 3rd line center and a good goalie. If I am the Coyotes, I couldn't send that paperwork into the league fast enough.

I appreciate the attempt at coming up with a trade but I am not sure you are taking into account the value of cap space. Teams literally trade overpaid but still good players and at times add high picks or prospects just to get rid of a their cap hit for space. So the 4 mill the Oilers would be taking on is HUGE and worth a lot. I wouldn't even trade OEL for Nurse or Klefbom straight up just because while a slight upgrade, he's not enough of an upgrade to justify paying him that much more in salary. Even Stephan for Russell, it would have to be Stephan + for Russell because of the 2.5 mill extra in cap space on top of the fact that you are saving your team 2.5 mill in real money which these days is a big deal for some owners.


I don’t dislike Nurse as much as I believe their are better defensemen out there that could be had. OEL is a better all around dman. He’s a leader. He would play the PP. Bouchard will not jump into the league running the power play full time. He might not even start the season in the NHL.

I do value cap space. Stepan deal is more focussed on next years cap space rather than this shortened abbreviated season. I think next year will be even a better opportunity to land deals as their won’t be a lot of revenue coming in from attendance.

My deal did not have a lot of thought out into it, but the root of it is we need to upgrade the D. No veteran is untouchable. We need to shed to shed some bad long term contracts. If taking a Derek Stepan back for one season to lose 2 additional seasons of Neal, while filling a void at centre for this year, then you gotta do it.

Cap space is important this year, but it’s more important long term when you’ve got Nuge going into UFA soon.

We will have to disagree then. OEL is 29 and only finished the first year of his contract. Is he a good player? You bet but is he elite? No he's not. Nothing about how he has played or his numbers for going on 4 seasons says he's elite, yet he's being paid to be elite. He's the 5th highest paid dman in the league. Taking out all the super rookies or the few guys that are really good who are on their ELC's, is OEL a top 5 dman in the league? Not even close but he's being paid like it. What's worse is that how he has been playing over the last 3-4 yrs which hasn't been that good, has been happening when he should be at his best, his prime years. A dman's prime years where he has gained enough experience, he's fully grown and developed are 25-32. He's 29. So he's played the bulk of his prime years already and they haven't been very good. He's going into year 2 of his deal that pays him 8.25 mill. So for the bulk of his contract, you are most likely getting declining years of hockey from him. Typically, most teams try to avoid paying their players big money for declining years. If he was making 6 mill, then sure make the trade but he's not a 2.6 mill better dman than Nurse especially since Nurse is just starting his prime years.

While I think OEL has a bit more to give than RDOF does, it is surprising that Chayka, who everyone saw as an analytics wiz, signed such a long term deal when it clearly does include years of decline at some point.


I’m not so hard OEL either and truthfully I’m not that hard on Nurse. My only issue with Nurse is in between the ears. If Nurse’s issues were skating, conditioning or toughness I know he could work through it. Can’t fix a broken toolbox.

OEL is just an example of I guy I’d look to improve the team. Ideally they are not signed through to infinity, but Nurse is an asset I’d move because of his perceived value.

Luckily for RDOF Stauffer hints to Klefbom being the odd man out.


My preference is to keep both Klefbom and Nurse and add to the group. If their left side was Klefbom, Nurse, Jones, I think that is a pretty darn good left side that has some offense, skating, puck moving, physical play and toughness. I think they have a good player in Bear. Where they need to upgrade is Larsson as his style of dman which is the defensive, big, slow, nasty dman is being pushed out of the NHL. If you aren't at least a decent skater, you are going to have a harder time. I also would like to see them make a change on Benning. I don't have a problem with him but I am not prepared to pay him over 2 mill just to be OK and again, he doesn't skate that well. IF the cap wasn't so tight thanks to Covid, I could maybe stomach keeping him around at his qualifying number but it's not and won't be for a few years. IF there was a way to sign him for closer to 1 mill, I'd have no issue if he was kept but when every 100K counts, paying a guy 2 mill to potentially sit a lot of nights makes no sense to me.

If I had to choose between Nurse or Klefbom, I would take Nurse because he's younger and he's more durable. I like Klefbom but he's had 1 season where he played 82 games. Even in a short season this year, he missed 10 games. Last year he missed 21, the year before he missed 15. You don't help your team when you miss significant time every season.

[Updated on: Thu, 17 September 2020 16:27]


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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766841 is a reply to message #766820 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2348
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Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 16:25

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 15:18

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 14:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:23

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:12

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

I don't see any trade involving OEL unless the Coyotes eat some salary, otherwise its a bad trade for the Oilers. OEL is a good dman but he isn't an 8.25 mill dman, definitely not a 8.25 mill dman for 7 more years. He had 30 pts in 66 games, that's a 37 pt season. He's a marginal upgrade on Klefbom or Nurse. I get you dislike Nurse but Nurse is one of the better 5 on 5 scorers in the league. If OEL did come to the Oilers, I don't see him being on the PP. You have Bouchard and that is his skill set and he's a right shot when all your premium players are left shots. If you are paying a dman 8.25 mill, you better be getting more than 30-40 pts which is all he's been putting up and with Bouchard, OEL is probably on your second unit. So he won't be putting up the points to remotely justify paying him that much.

On top of it, if they didn't retain salary, they Oilers are taking away the horrible OEL contract AND doing them another favor and taking on the 6.5 mill of Stephan. So the trade is a mid round first in a really good draft, a younger, cheaper, top 3, not even at his peak yet, 35 pt 5 on 5 dman, a 15 goal scorer, you get Russell who people call it a contract dump, the guy can play and he saves your owner 2.5 mill which is a big deal for them, PLUS 4 mill in cap space for a decent but extremely overpriced, over term dman, a grossly over paid 3rd line center and a good goalie. If I am the Coyotes, I couldn't send that paperwork into the league fast enough.

I appreciate the attempt at coming up with a trade but I am not sure you are taking into account the value of cap space. Teams literally trade overpaid but still good players and at times add high picks or prospects just to get rid of a their cap hit for space. So the 4 mill the Oilers would be taking on is HUGE and worth a lot. I wouldn't even trade OEL for Nurse or Klefbom straight up just because while a slight upgrade, he's not enough of an upgrade to justify paying him that much more in salary. Even Stephan for Russell, it would have to be Stephan + for Russell because of the 2.5 mill extra in cap space on top of the fact that you are saving your team 2.5 mill in real money which these days is a big deal for some owners.


I don’t dislike Nurse as much as I believe their are better defensemen out there that could be had. OEL is a better all around dman. He’s a leader. He would play the PP. Bouchard will not jump into the league running the power play full time. He might not even start the season in the NHL.

I do value cap space. Stepan deal is more focussed on next years cap space rather than this shortened abbreviated season. I think next year will be even a better opportunity to land deals as their won’t be a lot of revenue coming in from attendance.

My deal did not have a lot of thought out into it, but the root of it is we need to upgrade the D. No veteran is untouchable. We need to shed to shed some bad long term contracts. If taking a Derek Stepan back for one season to lose 2 additional seasons of Neal, while filling a void at centre for this year, then you gotta do it.

Cap space is important this year, but it’s more important long term when you’ve got Nuge going into UFA soon.

We will have to disagree then. OEL is 29 and only finished the first year of his contract. Is he a good player? You bet but is he elite? No he's not. Nothing about how he has played or his numbers for going on 4 seasons says he's elite, yet he's being paid to be elite. He's the 5th highest paid dman in the league. Taking out all the super rookies or the few guys that are really good who are on their ELC's, is OEL a top 5 dman in the league? Not even close but he's being paid like it. What's worse is that how he has been playing over the last 3-4 yrs which hasn't been that good, has been happening when he should be at his best, his prime years. A dman's prime years where he has gained enough experience, he's fully grown and developed are 25-32. He's 29. So he's played the bulk of his prime years already and they haven't been very good. He's going into year 2 of his deal that pays him 8.25 mill. So for the bulk of his contract, you are most likely getting declining years of hockey from him. Typically, most teams try to avoid paying their players big money for declining years. If he was making 6 mill, then sure make the trade but he's not a 2.6 mill better dman than Nurse especially since Nurse is just starting his prime years.

While I think OEL has a bit more to give than RDOF does, it is surprising that Chayka, who everyone saw as an analytics wiz, signed such a long term deal when it clearly does include years of decline at some point.


I’m not so hard OEL either and truthfully I’m not that hard on Nurse. My only issue with Nurse is in between the ears. If Nurse’s issues were skating, conditioning or toughness I know he could work through it. Can’t fix a broken toolbox.

OEL is just an example of I guy I’d look to improve the team. Ideally they are not signed through to infinity, but Nurse is an asset I’d move because of his perceived value.

Luckily for RDOF Stauffer hints to Klefbom being the odd man out.


My preference is to keep both Klefbom and Nurse and add to the group. If their left side was Klefbom, Nurse, Jones, I think that is a pretty darn good left side that has some offense, skating, puck moving, physical play and toughness. I think they have a good player in Bear. Where they need to upgrade is Larsson as his style of dman which is the defensive, big, slow, nasty dman is being pushed out of the NHL. If you aren't at least a decent skater, you are going to have a harder time. I also would like to see them make a change on Benning. I don't have a problem with him but I am not prepared to pay him over 2 mill just to be OK and again, he doesn't skate that well. IF the cap wasn't so tight thanks to Covid, I could maybe stomach keeping him around at his qualifying number but it's not and won't be for a few years. IF there was a way to sign him for closer to 1 mill, I'd have no issue if he was kept but when every 100K counts, paying a guy 2 mill to potentially sit a lot of nights makes no sense to me.

If I had to choose between Nurse or Klefbom, I would take Nurse because he's younger and he's more durable. I like Klefbom but he's had 1 season where he played 82 games. Even in a short season this year, he missed 10 games. Last year he missed 21, the year before he missed 15. You don't help your team when you miss significant time every season.


What you get back for Larsson won’t replace the hole. He’s a 4/5 guy who plays top pair in Edmonton. You can’t push Bouchard up that fast and Bear shouldn’t be handed that much responsibility yet either.

Benning won’t get a great return. Our left side is deeper. Holland’s choices are limited. If he wants to make a significant deal it’s one of Klefbom or Nurse. I prefer Nurse due to the cost certainty of Klefbom and Oscargasm’s contributions to OilFans.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766845 is a reply to message #766841 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 7261
Registered: January 2016

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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 08:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 16:25

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 15:18

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 14:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:23

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 17 September 2020 13:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 09:12

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2020 08:14

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 15 September 2020 09:43

lots of chatter about a deal between the Oil and Coyotes for Kuemper. Other rumors about OEL. Could there be a blockbuster in the works?




Holland doesn’t have a huge Blockbuster history and the NHL rarely does Blockbuster deals, but it is 2020. Who knows.

Kinda scared to see what a deal to bring in that salary would look like. There would be a lot of big contracts floating around.

Coyotes could use a big scoring winger who’s lights out on the power play. Let’s go full on HF boards.

Nurse 5.6
Neal 5.75
Russell 4.0 expiring NMC
1st

15.35M

OEL 8.25 NMC
Kuemper 4.5
Stepan 6.5 expiring

19.5M

We get Neal and Russell out. Benson slides into Neal’s role and Bouchard goes to the third pair. We get a legit goalie, a great dman on a terrible contract and a third line centre in the last year of a deal (hello contract season!)

Arizona gets a 1st rounder and an athletically gifted defensemen, cap relief and less term on Neal vs OEL.

I don't see any trade involving OEL unless the Coyotes eat some salary, otherwise its a bad trade for the Oilers. OEL is a good dman but he isn't an 8.25 mill dman, definitely not a 8.25 mill dman for 7 more years. He had 30 pts in 66 games, that's a 37 pt season. He's a marginal upgrade on Klefbom or Nurse. I get you dislike Nurse but Nurse is one of the better 5 on 5 scorers in the league. If OEL did come to the Oilers, I don't see him being on the PP. You have Bouchard and that is his skill set and he's a right shot when all your premium players are left shots. If you are paying a dman 8.25 mill, you better be getting more than 30-40 pts which is all he's been putting up and with Bouchard, OEL is probably on your second unit. So he won't be putting up the points to remotely justify paying him that much.

On top of it, if they didn't retain salary, they Oilers are taking away the horrible OEL contract AND doing them another favor and taking on the 6.5 mill of Stephan. So the trade is a mid round first in a really good draft, a younger, cheaper, top 3, not even at his peak yet, 35 pt 5 on 5 dman, a 15 goal scorer, you get Russell who people call it a contract dump, the guy can play and he saves your owner 2.5 mill which is a big deal for them, PLUS 4 mill in cap space for a decent but extremely overpriced, over term dman, a grossly over paid 3rd line center and a good goalie. If I am the Coyotes, I couldn't send that paperwork into the league fast enough.

I appreciate the attempt at coming up with a trade but I am not sure you are taking into account the value of cap space. Teams literally trade overpaid but still good players and at times add high picks or prospects just to get rid of a their cap hit for space. So the 4 mill the Oilers would be taking on is HUGE and worth a lot. I wouldn't even trade OEL for Nurse or Klefbom straight up just because while a slight upgrade, he's not enough of an upgrade to justify paying him that much more in salary. Even Stephan for Russell, it would have to be Stephan + for Russell because of the 2.5 mill extra in cap space on top of the fact that you are saving your team 2.5 mill in real money which these days is a big deal for some owners.


I don’t dislike Nurse as much as I believe their are better defensemen out there that could be had. OEL is a better all around dman. He’s a leader. He would play the PP. Bouchard will not jump into the league running the power play full time. He might not even start the season in the NHL.

I do value cap space. Stepan deal is more focussed on next years cap space rather than this shortened abbreviated season. I think next year will be even a better opportunity to land deals as their won’t be a lot of revenue coming in from attendance.

My deal did not have a lot of thought out into it, but the root of it is we need to upgrade the D. No veteran is untouchable. We need to shed to shed some bad long term contracts. If taking a Derek Stepan back for one season to lose 2 additional seasons of Neal, while filling a void at centre for this year, then you gotta do it.

Cap space is important this year, but it’s more important long term when you’ve got Nuge going into UFA soon.

We will have to disagree then. OEL is 29 and only finished the first year of his contract. Is he a good player? You bet but is he elite? No he's not. Nothing about how he has played or his numbers for going on 4 seasons says he's elite, yet he's being paid to be elite. He's the 5th highest paid dman in the league. Taking out all the super rookies or the few guys that are really good who are on their ELC's, is OEL a top 5 dman in the league? Not even close but he's being paid like it. What's worse is that how he has been playing over the last 3-4 yrs which hasn't been that good, has been happening when he should be at his best, his prime years. A dman's prime years where he has gained enough experience, he's fully grown and developed are 25-32. He's 29. So he's played the bulk of his prime years already and they haven't been very good. He's going into year 2 of his deal that pays him 8.25 mill. So for the bulk of his contract, you are most likely getting declining years of hockey from him. Typically, most teams try to avoid paying their players big money for declining years. If he was making 6 mill, then sure make the trade but he's not a 2.6 mill better dman than Nurse especially since Nurse is just starting his prime years.

While I think OEL has a bit more to give than RDOF does, it is surprising that Chayka, who everyone saw as an analytics wiz, signed such a long term deal when it clearly does include years of decline at some point.


I’m not so hard OEL either and truthfully I’m not that hard on Nurse. My only issue with Nurse is in between the ears. If Nurse’s issues were skating, conditioning or toughness I know he could work through it. Can’t fix a broken toolbox.

OEL is just an example of I guy I’d look to improve the team. Ideally they are not signed through to infinity, but Nurse is an asset I’d move because of his perceived value.

Luckily for RDOF Stauffer hints to Klefbom being the odd man out.


My preference is to keep both Klefbom and Nurse and add to the group. If their left side was Klefbom, Nurse, Jones, I think that is a pretty darn good left side that has some offense, skating, puck moving, physical play and toughness. I think they have a good player in Bear. Where they need to upgrade is Larsson as his style of dman which is the defensive, big, slow, nasty dman is being pushed out of the NHL. If you aren't at least a decent skater, you are going to have a harder time. I also would like to see them make a change on Benning. I don't have a problem with him but I am not prepared to pay him over 2 mill just to be OK and again, he doesn't skate that well. IF the cap wasn't so tight thanks to Covid, I could maybe stomach keeping him around at his qualifying number but it's not and won't be for a few years. IF there was a way to sign him for closer to 1 mill, I'd have no issue if he was kept but when every 100K counts, paying a guy 2 mill to potentially sit a lot of nights makes no sense to me.

If I had to choose between Nurse or Klefbom, I would take Nurse because he's younger and he's more durable. I like Klefbom but he's had 1 season where he played 82 games. Even in a short season this year, he missed 10 games. Last year he missed 21, the year before he missed 15. You don't help your team when you miss significant time every season.


What you get back for Larsson won’t replace the hole. He’s a 4/5 guy who plays top pair in Edmonton. You can’t push Bouchard up that fast and Bear shouldn’t be handed that much responsibility yet either.

Benning won’t get a great return. Our left side is deeper. Holland’s choices are limited. If he wants to make a significant deal it’s one of Klefbom or Nurse. I prefer Nurse due to the cost certainty of Klefbom and Oscargasm’s contributions to OilFans.

I wouldn't trade Nurse because he's 25 yrs old and just entering his prime years as a dman. In my opinion, for most dmen, their prime years are between 25-32 because by that time they are fully mature physically. By the time you are 25, you have been in the league at least 5 seasons so you should have the experience level needed because for dmen experience is HUGE. Because Nurse is such an elite skater, I think his prime is even longer than others because if you can skate really, really well, it can make up for a lot of things.

So if they trade Nurse, you should be in my opinion getting a dman of similar age back because Nurse's best hockey is yet to come. If you are trading Nurse for an much older veteran, I think it's an absolute mistake. Maybe you get an immediate upgrade for a year or 2 but it will come back to haunt you. I said it before, trading Nurse would be redoing the Petry trade all over again. I would hope they would get more than what they got for Petry but if you look at Petry, he and Nurse are similar. Both came to the team and took on a prominent role very early in their career. Both played a lot of minutes in all situations. Both had their warts and made mistakes but overall were pretty good dmen. Both have their haters for whatever reason. Both were very similar in age when the haters starter to really pile on and call for him to go. I think Petry was 25/26 when he was traded. When Petry went to the Habs he was just entering his prime and he took off. If a Nurse trade happened, I would bet money he takes off even more that he has now for whoever gets him and in a few years people will be listing off a Nurse trade as one of the dumb moves that management made just like they do for Petry.



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766846 is a reply to message #766845 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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I hope you’re right. I don’t think you are. I think Nurse is what he is. 350 games.

The Petry comparison is a poor example. Petry had played 295 games for the Oil, but was never given the opportunity that Nurse has had. Petry had a career high 25 point season with the team. He looked good, but MacT had a hate on for him.

Nurse has worked his way up through the line up. He’s developed into a solid middle pair dman who wants 7M + long term. Hard pass from me. While Petrt had room to grow because of deployment, Nurse has had more opportunity and I think we have seen his potential.

He’s good, but his perceived value to other teams and his contract wants make me want to show him the door. He’s Jacob Trouba lite.

**disclaimer** I don’t hate Nurse. I don’t like what he is getting paid. I don’t like that he will want a raise. **disclaimer**



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 Re: Lehner has deal in place with VGK: 5 year / $25MM [message #766850 is a reply to message #766846 ]
Fri, 18 September 2020 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 18 September 2020 09:53

I hope you’re right. I don’t think you are. I think Nurse is what he is. 350 games.

The Petry comparison is a poor example. Petry had played 295 games for the Oil, but was never given the opportunity that Nurse has had. Petry had a career high 25 point season with the team. He looked good, but MacT had a hate on for him.

Nurse has worked his way up through the line up. He’s developed into a solid middle pair dman who wants 7M + long term. Hard pass from me. While Petrt had room to grow because of deployment, Nurse has had more opportunity and I think we have seen his potential.

He’s good, but his perceived value to other teams and his contract wants make me want to show him the door. He’s Jacob Trouba lite.

**disclaimer** I don’t hate Nurse. I don’t like what he is getting paid. I don’t like that he will want a raise. **disclaimer**

You are entitled to your opinion about my comparison but I don't see how you can say Petry wasn't given the opportunity like Nurse. He played 22:51 his first ever NHL game and if you scroll though the game logs and look at his time on ice for his time as an Oiler, he played most games well over 20 mins a night. That's putting a very young, inexperience dman in a top 4 role immediately just like Nurse. His 12th EVER NHL game he played over 27 mins. I don't know whatelse you think a team didn't give Petry in way of opportunity when they are playing a rookie that much immediately. In my opinion due to lack of quality dmen, they gave Petry too many mins too early just like they did Nurse.

But I guess we will never agree on this so I will let it go. I don't think even you are saying Nurse is a bad player, he's a good player he's just not an elite player you think he should be. We won't ever agree on this because if you think trading an already pretty darn good 25 yr old who is just moving into his prime years is the road to success for the Oilers, we won't ever agree on anything. The Oilers have cut bait on players who were pretty good players just heading into their primes over and over again and it's blew up in their face pretty much every time.



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