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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766921 is a reply to message #766920 ]
Sun, 20 September 2020 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 18:36

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-oilers-nhl- hockey-bob-nicholson-peter-chiarelli-1.4617025


Dear lord. I forget how sure Nicholson still was in the Chia plan thew summer before he watched Chia just take a blow torch to the teams assets until he was finally fired.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766928 is a reply to message #766921 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 20:49

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 18:36

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-oilers-nhl- hockey-bob-nicholson-peter-chiarelli-1.4617025


Dear lord. I forget how sure Nicholson still was in the Chia plan thew summer before he watched Chia just take a blow torch to the teams assets until he was finally fired.

Yes in an alternate universe he calls up Katz and Nicholson, tells them what he can get for Taylor Hall and is immediately canned.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766935 is a reply to message #766928 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 10:08

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 20:49

CrudeRemarks wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 18:36

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-oilers-nhl- hockey-bob-nicholson-peter-chiarelli-1.4617025


Dear lord. I forget how sure Nicholson still was in the Chia plan thew summer before he watched Chia just take a blow torch to the teams assets until he was finally fired.

Yes in an alternate universe he calls up Katz and Nicholson, tells them what he can get for Taylor Hall and is immediately canned.


Normally, I think teams should be asking GM candidates for full-on plans before they make a hire, but I think the Oilers just saw Chiarelli become available and he knew Kevin Lowe from some Team Canada stuff, plus he had a Cup ring, so they just acted on the spot (hilariously without telling the current GM who they also weren't firing about those plans).



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766925 is a reply to message #766917 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766936 is a reply to message #766925 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766938 is a reply to message #766936 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.

If the Oilers could get themselves another decent goalie capable of putting up similar numbers as Koskinen, I think they will be fine. You can call Koskinen whatever you want, .917 in 38 games is pretty decent. He would have been well over 40 if they finished the season. Unless you have an elite guy, I think teams especially in the West need 2 goalies to split games. Just too much travel. I am not OK to spent 6 or 7 on a "starter" so he can play 10 more games than his back up.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766940 is a reply to message #766938 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.

If the Oilers could get themselves another decent goalie capable of putting up similar numbers as Koskinen, I think they will be fine. You can call Koskinen whatever you want, .917 in 38 games is pretty decent. He would have been well over 40 if they finished the season. Unless you have an elite guy, I think teams especially in the West need 2 goalies to split games. Just too much travel. I am not OK to spent 6 or 7 on a "starter" so he can play 10 more games than his back up.


Koskinen's regular season this year was the high water mark of his career. His playoffs were atrocious and little he's done before last year indicate that we can expect that level of play to continue.

I agree - we need two goalies who can play. I would prefer neither of them were Koskinen, but failing that, I'm happy to have him play 30-35 games behind someone better than him.

The only issue with spending $6-7MM on a good starting goalie is that we're over-committed on the back-up right now.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766941 is a reply to message #766940 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 8170
Registered: January 2016

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Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.

If the Oilers could get themselves another decent goalie capable of putting up similar numbers as Koskinen, I think they will be fine. You can call Koskinen whatever you want, .917 in 38 games is pretty decent. He would have been well over 40 if they finished the season. Unless you have an elite guy, I think teams especially in the West need 2 goalies to split games. Just too much travel. I am not OK to spent 6 or 7 on a "starter" so he can play 10 more games than his back up.


Koskinen's regular season this year was the high water mark of his career. His playoffs were atrocious and little he's done before last year indicate that we can expect that level of play to continue.

I agree - we need two goalies who can play. I would prefer neither of them were Koskinen, but failing that, I'm happy to have him play 30-35 games behind someone better than him.

The only issue with spending $6-7MM on a good starting goalie is that we're over-committed on the back-up right now.

What are you basing your opinion on other than you aren't a fan of him? I am not sticking up for the guy, I am asking because to say this season is a high water mark based on his body of work I don't know how you get there. Do I think he is an elite goalie? No but given the body of work to date, I kind of think you are wrong.

In his first year, he was pretty good for most of it then we saw his numbers fall off in the last part of the season when they played him something like 25 or 26 in a row. Brand new to the league, not used to the NHL game and especially the amount of work. This year he was .917 and at times extremely good. Like I said, I do not think he is elite but based on the bulk of his play, he looks to be capable of being around .915 as long as you don't play the crap put of him.

What I find interesting is you base part of your opinion of him on the week and a half of play in games they Oilers played. Most of the Oilers were a pile of junk for that short period of time. So if you are going to say Koskinen is not good based on a week and a half of hockey in which there was a 4 month break, does that apply to pretty much the whole team except McDavid, Leon and maybe Nuge?



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766943 is a reply to message #766941 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 3499
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.

If the Oilers could get themselves another decent goalie capable of putting up similar numbers as Koskinen, I think they will be fine. You can call Koskinen whatever you want, .917 in 38 games is pretty decent. He would have been well over 40 if they finished the season. Unless you have an elite guy, I think teams especially in the West need 2 goalies to split games. Just too much travel. I am not OK to spent 6 or 7 on a "starter" so he can play 10 more games than his back up.


Koskinen's regular season this year was the high water mark of his career. His playoffs were atrocious and little he's done before last year indicate that we can expect that level of play to continue.

I agree - we need two goalies who can play. I would prefer neither of them were Koskinen, but failing that, I'm happy to have him play 30-35 games behind someone better than him.

The only issue with spending $6-7MM on a good starting goalie is that we're over-committed on the back-up right now.

What are you basing your opinion on other than you aren't a fan of him? I am not sticking up for the guy, I am asking because to say this season is a high water mark based on his body of work I don't know how you get there. Do I think he is an elite goalie? No but given the body of work to date, I kind of think you are wrong.

In his first year, he was pretty good for most of it then we saw his numbers fall off in the last part of the season when they played him something like 25 or 26 in a row. Brand new to the league, not used to the NHL game and especially the amount of work. This year he was .917 and at times extremely good. Like I said, I do not think he is elite but based on the bulk of his play, he looks to be capable of being around .915 as long as you don't play the crap put of him.

What I find interesting is you base part of your opinion of him on the week and a half of play in games they Oilers played. Most of the Oilers were a pile of junk for that short period of time. So if you are going to say Koskinen is not good based on a week and a half of hockey in which there was a 4 month break, does that apply to pretty much the whole team except McDavid, Leon and maybe Nuge?


Thing with Koskinen is he is wildly inconsistent (same issue with Smith honestly).

He had a .906 in 18/19 and then was .917 in 19/20. Career average of .909. It's hard to guess exactly what to expect from him next year. He is definitely the better option of Smith and Koskinen, but the Oilers were a little too quick to lock him up to a four-year deal at $4M per season.

Of the 42 games he played last year, he had 17 games under .900 save percentage. He had 21 games under .910. So when he's on, he's on. But you just never know from one night to another if he'll be on.

He might be a 1B, but given the Oilers defense, I'd really like to see a 1A here.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766944 is a reply to message #766943 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 8170
Registered: January 2016

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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.

If the Oilers could get themselves another decent goalie capable of putting up similar numbers as Koskinen, I think they will be fine. You can call Koskinen whatever you want, .917 in 38 games is pretty decent. He would have been well over 40 if they finished the season. Unless you have an elite guy, I think teams especially in the West need 2 goalies to split games. Just too much travel. I am not OK to spent 6 or 7 on a "starter" so he can play 10 more games than his back up.


Koskinen's regular season this year was the high water mark of his career. His playoffs were atrocious and little he's done before last year indicate that we can expect that level of play to continue.

I agree - we need two goalies who can play. I would prefer neither of them were Koskinen, but failing that, I'm happy to have him play 30-35 games behind someone better than him.

The only issue with spending $6-7MM on a good starting goalie is that we're over-committed on the back-up right now.

What are you basing your opinion on other than you aren't a fan of him? I am not sticking up for the guy, I am asking because to say this season is a high water mark based on his body of work I don't know how you get there. Do I think he is an elite goalie? No but given the body of work to date, I kind of think you are wrong.

In his first year, he was pretty good for most of it then we saw his numbers fall off in the last part of the season when they played him something like 25 or 26 in a row. Brand new to the league, not used to the NHL game and especially the amount of work. This year he was .917 and at times extremely good. Like I said, I do not think he is elite but based on the bulk of his play, he looks to be capable of being around .915 as long as you don't play the crap put of him.

What I find interesting is you base part of your opinion of him on the week and a half of play in games they Oilers played. Most of the Oilers were a pile of junk for that short period of time. So if you are going to say Koskinen is not good based on a week and a half of hockey in which there was a 4 month break, does that apply to pretty much the whole team except McDavid, Leon and maybe Nuge?


Thing with Koskinen is he is wildly inconsistent (same issue with Smith honestly).

He had a .906 in 18/19 and then was .917 in 19/20. Career average of .909. It's hard to guess exactly what to expect from him next year. He is definitely the better option of Smith and Koskinen, but the Oilers were a little too quick to lock him up to a four-year deal at $4M per season.

Of the 42 games he played last year, he had 17 games under .900 save percentage. He had 21 games under .910. So when he's on, he's on. But you just never know from one night to another if he'll be on.

He might be a 1B, but given the Oilers defense, I'd really like to see a 1A here.

Like I said, I don't think he is a world beater but if you had a better back up than Smith, I think they could be fine. But that being said, if they can get rid of him and can get a upgrade, have at it.

I also think the Oilers defense will be better which will help goalies. Nurse will be 1 yr better. Bear will be better, replacing Russell with Jones will help.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 September 2020 14:45]


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766968 is a reply to message #766944 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 01:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 14:08

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.

If the Oilers could get themselves another decent goalie capable of putting up similar numbers as Koskinen, I think they will be fine. You can call Koskinen whatever you want, .917 in 38 games is pretty decent. He would have been well over 40 if they finished the season. Unless you have an elite guy, I think teams especially in the West need 2 goalies to split games. Just too much travel. I am not OK to spent 6 or 7 on a "starter" so he can play 10 more games than his back up.


Koskinen's regular season this year was the high water mark of his career. His playoffs were atrocious and little he's done before last year indicate that we can expect that level of play to continue.

I agree - we need two goalies who can play. I would prefer neither of them were Koskinen, but failing that, I'm happy to have him play 30-35 games behind someone better than him.

The only issue with spending $6-7MM on a good starting goalie is that we're over-committed on the back-up right now.

What are you basing your opinion on other than you aren't a fan of him? I am not sticking up for the guy, I am asking because to say this season is a high water mark based on his body of work I don't know how you get there. Do I think he is an elite goalie? No but given the body of work to date, I kind of think you are wrong.

In his first year, he was pretty good for most of it then we saw his numbers fall off in the last part of the season when they played him something like 25 or 26 in a row. Brand new to the league, not used to the NHL game and especially the amount of work. This year he was .917 and at times extremely good. Like I said, I do not think he is elite but based on the bulk of his play, he looks to be capable of being around .915 as long as you don't play the crap put of him.

What I find interesting is you base part of your opinion of him on the week and a half of play in games they Oilers played. Most of the Oilers were a pile of junk for that short period of time. So if you are going to say Koskinen is not good based on a week and a half of hockey in which there was a 4 month break, does that apply to pretty much the whole team except McDavid, Leon and maybe Nuge?


Thing with Koskinen is he is wildly inconsistent (same issue with Smith honestly).

He had a .906 in 18/19 and then was .917 in 19/20. Career average of .909. It's hard to guess exactly what to expect from him next year. He is definitely the better option of Smith and Koskinen, but the Oilers were a little too quick to lock him up to a four-year deal at $4M per season.

Of the 42 games he played last year, he had 17 games under .900 save percentage. He had 21 games under .910. So when he's on, he's on. But you just never know from one night to another if he'll be on.

He might be a 1B, but given the Oilers defense, I'd really like to see a 1A here.

Like I said, I don't think he is a world beater but if you had a better back up than Smith, I think they could be fine. But that being said, if they can get rid of him and can get a upgrade, have at it.

I also think the Oilers defense will be better which will help goalies. Nurse will be 1 yr better. Bear will be better, replacing Russell with Jones will help.


I think the discussion around whether Koski is a 1a or not is moot. I just don't think there's a body of work where he could be moved at his cap hit, and there is no cash for anything but a less expensive backup, probably $2.5 mil or less. Stuck for the upcoming season I think unless a miracle happens and Koskinen can be shipped for an upgrade or they can move salary out elsewhere on the roster, I can think of 3 contracts for sure that could miraculously be someone else's problem. I wish the Oilers could draft and develop better goaltenders. It'd be great to have a young guy come in on an ELC, backup at first, and take over on that same contract.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766971 is a reply to message #766968 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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K.McC#24 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 01:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 14:08

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.

If the Oilers could get themselves another decent goalie capable of putting up similar numbers as Koskinen, I think they will be fine. You can call Koskinen whatever you want, .917 in 38 games is pretty decent. He would have been well over 40 if they finished the season. Unless you have an elite guy, I think teams especially in the West need 2 goalies to split games. Just too much travel. I am not OK to spent 6 or 7 on a "starter" so he can play 10 more games than his back up.


Koskinen's regular season this year was the high water mark of his career. His playoffs were atrocious and little he's done before last year indicate that we can expect that level of play to continue.

I agree - we need two goalies who can play. I would prefer neither of them were Koskinen, but failing that, I'm happy to have him play 30-35 games behind someone better than him.

The only issue with spending $6-7MM on a good starting goalie is that we're over-committed on the back-up right now.

What are you basing your opinion on other than you aren't a fan of him? I am not sticking up for the guy, I am asking because to say this season is a high water mark based on his body of work I don't know how you get there. Do I think he is an elite goalie? No but given the body of work to date, I kind of think you are wrong.

In his first year, he was pretty good for most of it then we saw his numbers fall off in the last part of the season when they played him something like 25 or 26 in a row. Brand new to the league, not used to the NHL game and especially the amount of work. This year he was .917 and at times extremely good. Like I said, I do not think he is elite but based on the bulk of his play, he looks to be capable of being around .915 as long as you don't play the crap put of him.

What I find interesting is you base part of your opinion of him on the week and a half of play in games they Oilers played. Most of the Oilers were a pile of junk for that short period of time. So if you are going to say Koskinen is not good based on a week and a half of hockey in which there was a 4 month break, does that apply to pretty much the whole team except McDavid, Leon and maybe Nuge?


Thing with Koskinen is he is wildly inconsistent (same issue with Smith honestly).

He had a .906 in 18/19 and then was .917 in 19/20. Career average of .909. It's hard to guess exactly what to expect from him next year. He is definitely the better option of Smith and Koskinen, but the Oilers were a little too quick to lock him up to a four-year deal at $4M per season.

Of the 42 games he played last year, he had 17 games under .900 save percentage. He had 21 games under .910. So when he's on, he's on. But you just never know from one night to another if he'll be on.

He might be a 1B, but given the Oilers defense, I'd really like to see a 1A here.

Like I said, I don't think he is a world beater but if you had a better back up than Smith, I think they could be fine. But that being said, if they can get rid of him and can get a upgrade, have at it.

I also think the Oilers defense will be better which will help goalies. Nurse will be 1 yr better. Bear will be better, replacing Russell with Jones will help.


I think the discussion around whether Koski is a 1a or not is moot. I just don't think there's a body of work where he could be moved at his cap hit, and there is no cash for anything but a less expensive backup, probably $2.5 mil or less. Stuck for the upcoming season I think unless a miracle happens and Koskinen can be shipped for an upgrade or they can move salary out elsewhere on the roster, I can think of 3 contracts for sure that could miraculously be someone else's problem. I wish the Oilers could draft and develop better goaltenders. It'd be great to have a young guy come in on an ELC, backup at first, and take over on that same contract.


No argument from me, I don't call Koskinen a 1A goalie, I think he is a decent 1B. So like I keep saying, the Oilers need another good goalie and between the 2 of them, I think they can get the job done. If there is an opportunity to get a legit starter and in doing that they somehow get rid of Koskinen, then absolutely do it. But I don't see that happening.

I think there is the potential of getting a legit starter if they got Kuemper but there is of course risk in that. The only other way is if they were to trade for a younger, unproven guy and he turns into that starter. They tried that once with Talbot, it worked for a little over a year, then he regressed into a 1B.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766958 is a reply to message #766943 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 13:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 11:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 07:06

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 20 September 2020 09:51

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /no-big-moves-for-edmonton-oilers-just-tinkering-with-the-te am-says-team-exec/

Bobby Nicks predicts no big moves, just tinkering with the lineup.

He also gives Holland a pass, saying he didn't have much to work with. Of course this is because Bobby Nicks was sitting around with a thumb up his butt watching his employee Chiarelli crater the team.

I am of the opinion that there shouldn't be massive changes to the line up. They were first or second for the entire season, that's pretty darn good. In a normal season, the Oilers would have made the playoffs and I think they would have at least won a round. That's a pretty big step from where they have been. Their top 4 defense had a bad week and a bit and they lost the BS play in. Lots of other teams who were supposed to do damage in the playoffs struggled in the play in this season because of the break.

For changes.
Goalie: I think Koskinen is here. He's not a world beater, he's middle of the pack and his .917 to me says that. They need a good back up. Moving on from Smith to me isn't a big move because he's 39, you have too.

Defense: I think there will be a couple of changes. They will move Russell and Jones takes his place in the 3rd pairing. I don't see that has a big move because it's been coming for more than a season. I also think one of Benning or Larsson will be gone and a new dman is in their spot. Again not a big move in my books because Larsson is an upcoming UFA who's style of defense is leaving and Benning is a #6. Plus unless it's elite, you don't see a defense stay together without changes as long as the Oilers have. The same 5 guys have been on the Oilers defense since 2016.

Forward: I think they need a 3rd line center. I think there will be another top 9 forward added and then some dirt cheap depth guys much like last year added.

Seems like a lot but a lot of those moves are moves that need to happen which with guys getting old or their contract coming up.


It would sure be nice to see massive changes above the on-ice level though. Retire Kevin Lowe, fire Bob Nicholson. Finish a well-deserved purge of the head office.

I disagree with you on goalie - Koskinen is the back-up. We need a starter.

Ideally they also add a top-six winger and flush Russell.

If the Oilers could get themselves another decent goalie capable of putting up similar numbers as Koskinen, I think they will be fine. You can call Koskinen whatever you want, .917 in 38 games is pretty decent. He would have been well over 40 if they finished the season. Unless you have an elite guy, I think teams especially in the West need 2 goalies to split games. Just too much travel. I am not OK to spent 6 or 7 on a "starter" so he can play 10 more games than his back up.


Koskinen's regular season this year was the high water mark of his career. His playoffs were atrocious and little he's done before last year indicate that we can expect that level of play to continue.

I agree - we need two goalies who can play. I would prefer neither of them were Koskinen, but failing that, I'm happy to have him play 30-35 games behind someone better than him.

The only issue with spending $6-7MM on a good starting goalie is that we're over-committed on the back-up right now.

What are you basing your opinion on other than you aren't a fan of him? I am not sticking up for the guy, I am asking because to say this season is a high water mark based on his body of work I don't know how you get there. Do I think he is an elite goalie? No but given the body of work to date, I kind of think you are wrong.

In his first year, he was pretty good for most of it then we saw his numbers fall off in the last part of the season when they played him something like 25 or 26 in a row. Brand new to the league, not used to the NHL game and especially the amount of work. This year he was .917 and at times extremely good. Like I said, I do not think he is elite but based on the bulk of his play, he looks to be capable of being around .915 as long as you don't play the crap put of him.

What I find interesting is you base part of your opinion of him on the week and a half of play in games they Oilers played. Most of the Oilers were a pile of junk for that short period of time. So if you are going to say Koskinen is not good based on a week and a half of hockey in which there was a 4 month break, does that apply to pretty much the whole team except McDavid, Leon and maybe Nuge?


Thing with Koskinen is he is wildly inconsistent (same issue with Smith honestly).

He had a .906 in 18/19 and then was .917 in 19/20. Career average of .909. It's hard to guess exactly what to expect from him next year. He is definitely the better option of Smith and Koskinen, but the Oilers were a little too quick to lock him up to a four-year deal at $4M per season.

Of the 42 games he played last year, he had 17 games under .900 save percentage. He had 21 games under .910. So when he's on, he's on. But you just never know from one night to another if he'll be on.

He might be a 1B, but given the Oilers defense, I'd really like to see a 1A here.


Yeah, there's nothing about Koskinen that gives me any reason for confidence. He was not good enough to stick in the NHL earlier in his career. He came back after a spell in the KHL and at age 30 had a mediocre season. I say this is a high water mark because he's inconsistent and older. He's not likely to get better now. He failed to really take the starter's job here in Edmonton despite the fact that Mike Smith sucked. That's in part because of the coach's relationship, but even so, I think it's in part that Koskinen didn't force his hand at all. And ultimately, when he was given the responsibility in the playoffs, he failed.

Also, while I think small sample sizes need to be looked at critically, the Oilers did show poorly outside of the top three. The same issues that we've been talking about all year showed again. The team got nothing from it's depth. Kris Russell was a train wreck. Coaching was also exposed, which is still the biggest surprise for me. I hope that was a blip in a short series and not a sign that we've got another coach who time has passed by.

Goaltending and depth and a Kris Russell trade are all tweaks this team needs and the playoffs just underlined that.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766963 is a reply to message #766925 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgrabia  is currently offline sgrabia
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We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766965 is a reply to message #766963 ]
Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766973 is a reply to message #766965 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Even if the Oilers had the cap space, I don't think throwing a ton of money at a going to be 31 yr old in January dman even if right now he is good, is the answer. To get him, you'd have to give him big money and term. More times than not when a team throws big money and term at a guy who's close to 30 or over 30 yr, it ends up being a brutal contract in a few years.

I think the best route for the Oilers and I have said it before, build a defense like Carolina did. Build a good top 6 in which they are all good skaters and on top of that each pair has a good balance of puck movers, guys who can bring some offense, guys who can defend pretty well and guys who have some physical play. You don't have that guy who is scoring 60+ pts playing half the game and in norris talk but when you throw out your pairs, there isn't a big drop off from the 1st to the 3rd.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767004 is a reply to message #766973 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:21


I think the best route for the Oilers and I have said it before, build a defense like Carolina did. Build a good top 6 in which they are all good skaters and on top of that each pair has a good balance of puck movers, guys who can bring some offense, guys who can defend pretty well and guys who have some physical play. You don't have that guy who is scoring 60+ pts playing half the game and in norris talk but when you throw out your pairs, there isn't a big drop off from the 1st to the 3rd.


Funny enough, Slavin was 5th in Norris voting, and Hamilton was 7th.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767005 is a reply to message #767004 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 11:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:21


I think the best route for the Oilers and I have said it before, build a defense like Carolina did. Build a good top 6 in which they are all good skaters and on top of that each pair has a good balance of puck movers, guys who can bring some offense, guys who can defend pretty well and guys who have some physical play. You don't have that guy who is scoring 60+ pts playing half the game and in norris talk but when you throw out your pairs, there isn't a big drop off from the 1st to the 3rd.


Funny enough, Slavin was 5th in Norris voting, and Hamilton was 7th.


I see that but would you put them as top 10 dmen in the league? I sure wouldn't. The voting for a lot of these awards if a joke.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767008 is a reply to message #767005 ]
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 10:50

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 11:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:21


I think the best route for the Oilers and I have said it before, build a defense like Carolina did. Build a good top 6 in which they are all good skaters and on top of that each pair has a good balance of puck movers, guys who can bring some offense, guys who can defend pretty well and guys who have some physical play. You don't have that guy who is scoring 60+ pts playing half the game and in norris talk but when you throw out your pairs, there isn't a big drop off from the 1st to the 3rd.


Funny enough, Slavin was 5th in Norris voting, and Hamilton was 7th.


I see that but would you put them as top 10 dmen in the league? I sure wouldn't. The voting for a lot of these awards if a joke.


I feel like Hamilton's got to be close, no? 40 points in 47 games this year. That projects out to around 58 points if he plays 68 games, which would have been good for 3rd among defencemen. He has the most goals of any defenceman over the past 3 years. Fancy stats really like him.

Josi, Carlson, Hedman, Pietrangelo, Krug, Theodore are ahead of him for sure. Maybe Chabot. Maybe Letang. I don't think I'd put Burns ahead of Hamilton at this point. Hughes, DeAngelo, Makar all had great seasons, but you'd want to see more I think.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766974 is a reply to message #766965 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53

sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



Honestly, I'd rather overpay someone that is actually good, than over pay five guys that aren't good.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766975 is a reply to message #766974 ]
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:17

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53

sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



Honestly, I'd rather overpay someone that is actually good, than over pay five guys that aren't good.


Yes. Pietrangelo might get 8ish million...I'd happily take that over Larsson and Russell.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766976 is a reply to message #766975 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:33

Magnum wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:17

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53

sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



Honestly, I'd rather overpay someone that is actually good, than over pay five guys that aren't good.


Yes. Pietrangelo might get 8ish million...I'd happily take that over Larsson and Russell.



Klef (4.17) - Larsson (4.17)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Russell (4)

21.8M total



Klef (4.17) - Pietro (8-9)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Bouchard (0.863)

22.5M-23.5M total depending on Pietro's deal.



That change worth the extra ~0.7M to 1.7M? Probably (of course just making Russell/Larsson cap hits vanish is not that easy)


In the end though. I think the Laffs are dumping Nylander and going hard for Pietro.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766977 is a reply to message #766976 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:38

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:33

Magnum wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:17

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53

sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



Honestly, I'd rather overpay someone that is actually good, than over pay five guys that aren't good.


Yes. Pietrangelo might get 8ish million...I'd happily take that over Larsson and Russell.



Klef (4.17) - Larsson (4.17)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Russell (4)

21.8M total



Klef (4.17) - Pietro (8-9)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Bouchard (0.863)

22.5M-23.5M total depending on Pietro's deal.



That change worth the extra ~0.7M to 1.7M? Probably (of course just making Russell/Larsson cap hits vanish is not that easy)


In the end though. I think the Laffs are dumping Nylander and going hard for Pietro.


In my opinion to get him to come to Edmonton, he's getting over 9 and it's probably for 7 yrs. He turns 31. I could see him being good for 3 of those years then declining after that. The next issue is that defense has 3 out of the 6 with barely a season of games under their belt. Bouchard is a rookie, Bear and Jones are sort of second year players. That to me says disaster.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766978 is a reply to message #766977 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:47

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:38

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:33

Magnum wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:17

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53

sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



Honestly, I'd rather overpay someone that is actually good, than over pay five guys that aren't good.


Yes. Pietrangelo might get 8ish million...I'd happily take that over Larsson and Russell.



Klef (4.17) - Larsson (4.17)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Russell (4)

21.8M total



Klef (4.17) - Pietro (8-9)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Bouchard (0.863)

22.5M-23.5M total depending on Pietro's deal.



That change worth the extra ~0.7M to 1.7M? Probably (of course just making Russell/Larsson cap hits vanish is not that easy)


In the end though. I think the Laffs are dumping Nylander and going hard for Pietro.


In my opinion to get him to come to Edmonton, he's getting over 9 and it's probably for 7 yrs. He turns 31. I could see him being good for 3 of those years then declining after that. The next issue is that defense has 3 out of the 6 with barely a season of games under their belt. Bouchard is a rookie, Bear and Jones are sort of second year players. That to me says disaster.



One thing about elite D, a lot of the time they can still be good into their mid-30's. Especially the ones that have their game more revolving around smarts than just speed.

For the Oilers, I honestly wouldn't be worrying about 4+ years down the road. If we don't start winning ASAP, we're gonna be worrying about a lot more than how elite guys on our team will be declining in 4 years. We'll be worrying about elite guys of the Triple Crown winning variety skipping down because we suck.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766979 is a reply to message #766978 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:47

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:38

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:33

Magnum wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:17

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53

sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



Honestly, I'd rather overpay someone that is actually good, than over pay five guys that aren't good.


Yes. Pietrangelo might get 8ish million...I'd happily take that over Larsson and Russell.



Klef (4.17) - Larsson (4.17)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Russell (4)

21.8M total



Klef (4.17) - Pietro (8-9)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Bouchard (0.863)

22.5M-23.5M total depending on Pietro's deal.



That change worth the extra ~0.7M to 1.7M? Probably (of course just making Russell/Larsson cap hits vanish is not that easy)


In the end though. I think the Laffs are dumping Nylander and going hard for Pietro.


In my opinion to get him to come to Edmonton, he's getting over 9 and it's probably for 7 yrs. He turns 31. I could see him being good for 3 of those years then declining after that. The next issue is that defense has 3 out of the 6 with barely a season of games under their belt. Bouchard is a rookie, Bear and Jones are sort of second year players. That to me says disaster.



One thing about elite D, a lot of the time they can still be good into their mid-30's. Especially the ones that have their game more revolving around smarts than just speed.

For the Oilers, I honestly wouldn't be worrying about 4+ years down the road. If we don't start winning ASAP, we're gonna be worrying about a lot more than how elite guys on our team will be declining in 4 years. We'll be worrying about elite guys of the Triple Crown winning variety skipping down because we suck.

You could be right but I am just really against giving big money, long term contracts to guys over 30. Just too many times it never works out and the team is screwed. But I am also of the opinion that if they could upgrade Larsson's position both in skating and puck moving, that would be enough. I am more of building a good top 6 than blowing your wad on 1 guy then having to dress 2 or 3 rookies to make up the difference in money so as soon as that big guy sits down for a rest, you are praying about surviving the shifts he isn't playing.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766983 is a reply to message #766978 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:47

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:38

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 08:33

Magnum wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:17

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53

sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



Honestly, I'd rather overpay someone that is actually good, than over pay five guys that aren't good.


Yes. Pietrangelo might get 8ish million...I'd happily take that over Larsson and Russell.



Klef (4.17) - Larsson (4.17)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Russell (4)

21.8M total



Klef (4.17) - Pietro (8-9)
Nurse (5.6) - Bear (3)
Jones (0.85) - Bouchard (0.863)

22.5M-23.5M total depending on Pietro's deal.



That change worth the extra ~0.7M to 1.7M? Probably (of course just making Russell/Larsson cap hits vanish is not that easy)


In the end though. I think the Laffs are dumping Nylander and going hard for Pietro.


In my opinion to get him to come to Edmonton, he's getting over 9 and it's probably for 7 yrs. He turns 31. I could see him being good for 3 of those years then declining after that. The next issue is that defense has 3 out of the 6 with barely a season of games under their belt. Bouchard is a rookie, Bear and Jones are sort of second year players. That to me says disaster.



One thing about elite D, a lot of the time they can still be good into their mid-30's. Especially the ones that have their game more revolving around smarts than just speed.

For the Oilers, I honestly wouldn't be worrying about 4+ years down the road. If we don't start winning ASAP, we're gonna be worrying about a lot more than how elite guys on our team will be declining in 4 years. We'll be worrying about elite guys of the Triple Crown winning variety skipping down because we suck.


That does have the possibility of being a Brent Seabrook deal by the end. I'm leery of big term to older players, and I think Pietrangelo is going to hit the jackpot from someone.

I still think if you want to flush Larsson and replace him, you can probably get Tyson Barrie on a show-me deal as a nice stop-gap without much difference in cost.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766987 is a reply to message #766983 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The Leafs will clear out cap space and sign him for 7 yrs at close to 10. I've already seen articles referring to how he was a Leafs fan and the dream it would be for him.


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766991 is a reply to message #766987 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 12:32

The Leafs will clear out cap space and sign him for 7 yrs at close to 10. I've already seen articles referring to how he was a Leafs fan and the dream it would be for him.


To be fair, you see those same articles every single year when the latest crop of big name free agents arrives. Everyone dreams of playing for Toronto. Apparently.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #766993 is a reply to message #766983 ]
Tue, 22 September 2020 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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What's the worst that could happen? We wallow in the NHL basement for 15 years?

Have a great back and front end for 3 to 4 years, and then have a crappy team for 4 years. I'd take 4 years of glory then 4 years of unglory, over expecting our skeleton d-core to rise to the Cup occasion and being let down every one of the next 8 years.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767001 is a reply to message #766974 ]
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 22 September 2020 07:17

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:53

sgrabia wrote on Mon, 21 September 2020 21:00

We need at least one #1 defenceman and the only one available is Pietrangelo. When you build a team you start with defense first, we tried with offense and it didnt work. Pietrangelo would be the team builder for Bouchard, Jones, Bear, and eventually Broberg. Second most important thing is a real good number 3 center. Fix those 2 to start and just with that the team would be better. Last find another 2M number 2 goalie for one year. After this year the oiler will recoup 2.5 M in buyout so that could help find some help up front.


Pietrangelo is reportedly asking for 9.25M a year.

Not happening in Edmonton.



Honestly, I'd rather overpay someone that is actually good, than over pay five guys that aren't good.


Agree.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767171 is a reply to message #765657 ]
Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767172 is a reply to message #767171 ]
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.

Makes total sense. Every 100K counts when the cap is this tight. I have no problem if they keep Benning but he needs to be paid properly. Just because Chia overpaid him years ago, doesn't mean you continue the cycle. He's a 6/7 dman who if/when Bouchard makes the team, Benning will be sitting. If he's willing to get his number closer to 1 mill, if you have to give him an extra year to get that, so be it.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767174 is a reply to message #767171 ]
Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767203 is a reply to message #767174 ]
Tue, 29 September 2020 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the CBA but why can't a team and a player just sign a contract to whatever they want and not worry about the qualifying offer? I thought the big thing for qualifying a player is to hold his rights if a contract isn't reached by the free agent deadline but if you can agree too one before the deadline, it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard or read anyone in the hockey business who should know the CBA better than fans who think getting a deal done without qualifying Benning is a big deal. The player of course has to agree to it but if Benning was left handed does anyone think another team is dying to sign him for over 2 mill? I don't. He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't do anything overly well just lots of OK at times. His skating is below average which in the NHL these days is an issue and he has injury problems mostly concussions. That screams million dollar player to me at best. He being right handed makes him worth a little more but not over 2 mill.

[Updated on: Tue, 29 September 2020 08:06]


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767207 is a reply to message #767203 ]
Tue, 29 September 2020 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 07:49

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the CBA but why can't a team and a player just sign a contract to whatever they want and not worry about the qualifying offer? I thought the big thing for qualifying a player is to hold his rights if a contract isn't reached by the free agent deadline but if you can agree too one before the deadline, it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard or read anyone in the hockey business who should know the CBA better than fans who think getting a deal done without qualifying Benning is a big deal. The player of course has to agree to it but if Benning was left handed does anyone think another team is dying to sign him for over 2 mill? I don't. He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't do anything overly well just lots of OK at times. His skating is below average which in the NHL these days is an issue and he has injury problems mostly concussions. That screams million dollar player to me at best. He being right handed makes him worth a little more but not over 2 mill.

It's about retaining the player rights I believe. CBA says if they make over $1 million they need to get an offer of that or more. Unless the team goes into reverse arbitration but there hasn't ever been much appetite to do that. So if I'm matt benning I either get my same salary, a raise, or the chance at being a UFA. no reason I'd agree to a lower salary with those options on the table.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767215 is a reply to message #767207 ]
Tue, 29 September 2020 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 09:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 07:49

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the CBA but why can't a team and a player just sign a contract to whatever they want and not worry about the qualifying offer? I thought the big thing for qualifying a player is to hold his rights if a contract isn't reached by the free agent deadline but if you can agree too one before the deadline, it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard or read anyone in the hockey business who should know the CBA better than fans who think getting a deal done without qualifying Benning is a big deal. The player of course has to agree to it but if Benning was left handed does anyone think another team is dying to sign him for over 2 mill? I don't. He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't do anything overly well just lots of OK at times. His skating is below average which in the NHL these days is an issue and he has injury problems mostly concussions. That screams million dollar player to me at best. He being right handed makes him worth a little more but not over 2 mill.

It's about retaining the player rights I believe. CBA says if they make over $1 million they need to get an offer of that or more. Unless the team goes into reverse arbitration but there hasn't ever been much appetite to do that. So if I'm matt benning I either get my same salary, a raise, or the chance at being a UFA. no reason I'd agree to a lower salary with those options on the table.

If the Oilers don't qualify Benning, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to see what's out there. That being said, unless there is a team that thinks he is more than just a #6, which in my opinion, he's a #6 . A decent #6 but every time he gets more minutes, he falters. So unless he is willing to go to a crap team and chase the money, I don't see him getting 2 mill from another team that is remotely decent. The money just isn't there for a lot of teams, some for cap reasons other teams will have a self cap for financial reasons.

If I am the Oilers, I can't afford to be paying Benning 2 mill who in all likelihood will be a healthy scratch. I could see Bouchard maybe not being in the line up to start but much like Yamo, will find himself playing full time at some point.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767216 is a reply to message #767215 ]
Tue, 29 September 2020 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:06

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 09:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 07:49

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the CBA but why can't a team and a player just sign a contract to whatever they want and not worry about the qualifying offer? I thought the big thing for qualifying a player is to hold his rights if a contract isn't reached by the free agent deadline but if you can agree too one before the deadline, it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard or read anyone in the hockey business who should know the CBA better than fans who think getting a deal done without qualifying Benning is a big deal. The player of course has to agree to it but if Benning was left handed does anyone think another team is dying to sign him for over 2 mill? I don't. He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't do anything overly well just lots of OK at times. His skating is below average which in the NHL these days is an issue and he has injury problems mostly concussions. That screams million dollar player to me at best. He being right handed makes him worth a little more but not over 2 mill.

It's about retaining the player rights I believe. CBA says if they make over $1 million they need to get an offer of that or more. Unless the team goes into reverse arbitration but there hasn't ever been much appetite to do that. So if I'm matt benning I either get my same salary, a raise, or the chance at being a UFA. no reason I'd agree to a lower salary with those options on the table.

If the Oilers don't qualify Benning, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to see what's out there. That being said, unless there is a team that thinks he is more than just a #6, which in my opinion, he's a #6 . A decent #6 but every time he gets more minutes, he falters. So unless he is willing to go to a crap team and chase the money, I don't see him getting 2 mill from another team that is remotely decent. The money just isn't there for a lot of teams, some for cap reasons other teams will have a self cap for financial reasons.

If I am the Oilers, I can't afford to be paying Benning 2 mill who in all likelihood will be a healthy scratch. I could see Bouchard maybe not being in the line up to start but much like Yamo, will find himself playing full time at some point.

Well between pouliot, Sekera and Lucic we have about $4.5 million in dead space versus well run teams so maybe you’re right. But I’d say Russell’s money is more significant.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767218 is a reply to message #767216 ]
Tue, 29 September 2020 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:06

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 09:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 07:49

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the CBA but why can't a team and a player just sign a contract to whatever they want and not worry about the qualifying offer? I thought the big thing for qualifying a player is to hold his rights if a contract isn't reached by the free agent deadline but if you can agree too one before the deadline, it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard or read anyone in the hockey business who should know the CBA better than fans who think getting a deal done without qualifying Benning is a big deal. The player of course has to agree to it but if Benning was left handed does anyone think another team is dying to sign him for over 2 mill? I don't. He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't do anything overly well just lots of OK at times. His skating is below average which in the NHL these days is an issue and he has injury problems mostly concussions. That screams million dollar player to me at best. He being right handed makes him worth a little more but not over 2 mill.

It's about retaining the player rights I believe. CBA says if they make over $1 million they need to get an offer of that or more. Unless the team goes into reverse arbitration but there hasn't ever been much appetite to do that. So if I'm matt benning I either get my same salary, a raise, or the chance at being a UFA. no reason I'd agree to a lower salary with those options on the table.

If the Oilers don't qualify Benning, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to see what's out there. That being said, unless there is a team that thinks he is more than just a #6, which in my opinion, he's a #6 . A decent #6 but every time he gets more minutes, he falters. So unless he is willing to go to a crap team and chase the money, I don't see him getting 2 mill from another team that is remotely decent. The money just isn't there for a lot of teams, some for cap reasons other teams will have a self cap for financial reasons.

If I am the Oilers, I can't afford to be paying Benning 2 mill who in all likelihood will be a healthy scratch. I could see Bouchard maybe not being in the line up to start but much like Yamo, will find himself playing full time at some point.

Well between pouliot, Sekera and Lucic we have about $4.5 million in dead space versus well run teams so maybe you’re right. But I’d say Russell’s money is more significant.

Not sure what the dead cap space has to do with whether you give Benning 2 mill or not. If that cap space isn't tied up, doesn't mean you should be giving 6/7 dmen 2 mill. Having more cap space doesn't mean you should give out bad contracts. I think Benning is a 1-1.2 mill dman. If Benning wasn't right handed, no one in Edmonton would care if he left and frankly, not many teams would be lining up to sign him.

[Updated on: Tue, 29 September 2020 12:31]


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767223 is a reply to message #767218 ]
Tue, 29 September 2020 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:29

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:06

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 09:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 07:49

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the CBA but why can't a team and a player just sign a contract to whatever they want and not worry about the qualifying offer? I thought the big thing for qualifying a player is to hold his rights if a contract isn't reached by the free agent deadline but if you can agree too one before the deadline, it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard or read anyone in the hockey business who should know the CBA better than fans who think getting a deal done without qualifying Benning is a big deal. The player of course has to agree to it but if Benning was left handed does anyone think another team is dying to sign him for over 2 mill? I don't. He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't do anything overly well just lots of OK at times. His skating is below average which in the NHL these days is an issue and he has injury problems mostly concussions. That screams million dollar player to me at best. He being right handed makes him worth a little more but not over 2 mill.

It's about retaining the player rights I believe. CBA says if they make over $1 million they need to get an offer of that or more. Unless the team goes into reverse arbitration but there hasn't ever been much appetite to do that. So if I'm matt benning I either get my same salary, a raise, or the chance at being a UFA. no reason I'd agree to a lower salary with those options on the table.

If the Oilers don't qualify Benning, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to see what's out there. That being said, unless there is a team that thinks he is more than just a #6, which in my opinion, he's a #6 . A decent #6 but every time he gets more minutes, he falters. So unless he is willing to go to a crap team and chase the money, I don't see him getting 2 mill from another team that is remotely decent. The money just isn't there for a lot of teams, some for cap reasons other teams will have a self cap for financial reasons.

If I am the Oilers, I can't afford to be paying Benning 2 mill who in all likelihood will be a healthy scratch. I could see Bouchard maybe not being in the line up to start but much like Yamo, will find himself playing full time at some point.

Well between pouliot, Sekera and Lucic we have about $4.5 million in dead space versus well run teams so maybe you’re right. But I’d say Russell’s money is more significant.

Not sure what the dead cap space has to do with whether you give Benning 2 mill or not. If that cap space isn't tied up, doesn't mean you should be giving 6/7 dmen 2 mill. Having more cap space doesn't mean you should give out bad contracts. I think Benning is a 1-1.2 mill dman. If Benning wasn't right handed, no one in Edmonton would care if he left and frankly, not many teams would be lining up to sign him.

I think your assessment is off on Benning. When not forced into top pairing situations he's highly competent. You call him a number 6 but since they come in pairs that's no different than a number 5. Russell gets double the money (from a cap pov) for no additional benefit.

My point about the buyouts and retained salary is that we're starting in a hole versus well run teams. So it may be that Benning is asked to take a haircut, and athanasiou as well.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767229 is a reply to message #767223 ]
Tue, 29 September 2020 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 14:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:29

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:06

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 09:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 07:49

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the CBA but why can't a team and a player just sign a contract to whatever they want and not worry about the qualifying offer? I thought the big thing for qualifying a player is to hold his rights if a contract isn't reached by the free agent deadline but if you can agree too one before the deadline, it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard or read anyone in the hockey business who should know the CBA better than fans who think getting a deal done without qualifying Benning is a big deal. The player of course has to agree to it but if Benning was left handed does anyone think another team is dying to sign him for over 2 mill? I don't. He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't do anything overly well just lots of OK at times. His skating is below average which in the NHL these days is an issue and he has injury problems mostly concussions. That screams million dollar player to me at best. He being right handed makes him worth a little more but not over 2 mill.

It's about retaining the player rights I believe. CBA says if they make over $1 million they need to get an offer of that or more. Unless the team goes into reverse arbitration but there hasn't ever been much appetite to do that. So if I'm matt benning I either get my same salary, a raise, or the chance at being a UFA. no reason I'd agree to a lower salary with those options on the table.

If the Oilers don't qualify Benning, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to see what's out there. That being said, unless there is a team that thinks he is more than just a #6, which in my opinion, he's a #6 . A decent #6 but every time he gets more minutes, he falters. So unless he is willing to go to a crap team and chase the money, I don't see him getting 2 mill from another team that is remotely decent. The money just isn't there for a lot of teams, some for cap reasons other teams will have a self cap for financial reasons.

If I am the Oilers, I can't afford to be paying Benning 2 mill who in all likelihood will be a healthy scratch. I could see Bouchard maybe not being in the line up to start but much like Yamo, will find himself playing full time at some point.

Well between pouliot, Sekera and Lucic we have about $4.5 million in dead space versus well run teams so maybe you’re right. But I’d say Russell’s money is more significant.

Not sure what the dead cap space has to do with whether you give Benning 2 mill or not. If that cap space isn't tied up, doesn't mean you should be giving 6/7 dmen 2 mill. Having more cap space doesn't mean you should give out bad contracts. I think Benning is a 1-1.2 mill dman. If Benning wasn't right handed, no one in Edmonton would care if he left and frankly, not many teams would be lining up to sign him.

I think your assessment is off on Benning. When not forced into top pairing situations he's highly competent. You call him a number 6 but since they come in pairs that's no different than a number 5. Russell gets double the money (from a cap pov) for no additional benefit.

My point about the buyouts and retained salary is that we're starting in a hole versus well run teams. So it may be that Benning is asked to take a haircut, and athanasiou as well.

How many coaches have come and gone with the Oilers and none of them want to play him more than 14 bottom pairing minutes? Mclellan stopped playing him big minute, Hitchcock never elevated him. Tippett never did it. Larsson a right shot goes down in the play in early. Rather than keep the left- right combo that Tippett really likes, he elevated Russell and kept Benning in the 3rd pairing. If my assessment of Benning is off and he's capable of elevating, why would Tippet and Playflair - 2 guys that value left right and who did a pretty good job coaching this past year - not even consider elevating Benning?

When it comes to the wasted cap space on buy outs, I agree it sucks but if it was available, that still in my opinion does not justify overpaying lower end players. With under a salary cap, you have to find savings. With a flat cap, you definitely have to find savings. So you can't be overpaying your bottom 6 guys or your 3rd pairing defense. I think you need to spend some money on a good 3rd line center. After that, you should be filling your roster with cheaper guys. 3 mill for AA is too much, 2 mill for Bennign is too muc regardless of their cap situation.

[Updated on: Tue, 29 September 2020 14:33]


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767230 is a reply to message #767229 ]
Tue, 29 September 2020 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 14:28

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 14:08

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:29

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 12:06

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 09:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 29 September 2020 07:49

Adam wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:53

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 28 September 2020 16:15

Lots of speculation (most recently Jason Gregor) the Oilers won't qualify Matt Benning at $2M, though there may be interest in re-signing him at a cheaper price.


It will be interesting to see if there's a bunch of this this summer. If many teams do it, with the economics of a flat cap used, then it's probably not a bad play. If we're one of the only teams to do it, it could be bad.

You'd want to have a contract ready to offer him immediately after not qualifying him. If he gets to free agency, you have to think all else being equal he may accept an equivalent offer from someone else because he feels slighted.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the CBA but why can't a team and a player just sign a contract to whatever they want and not worry about the qualifying offer? I thought the big thing for qualifying a player is to hold his rights if a contract isn't reached by the free agent deadline but if you can agree too one before the deadline, it doesn't matter.

I haven't heard or read anyone in the hockey business who should know the CBA better than fans who think getting a deal done without qualifying Benning is a big deal. The player of course has to agree to it but if Benning was left handed does anyone think another team is dying to sign him for over 2 mill? I don't. He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't do anything overly well just lots of OK at times. His skating is below average which in the NHL these days is an issue and he has injury problems mostly concussions. That screams million dollar player to me at best. He being right handed makes him worth a little more but not over 2 mill.

It's about retaining the player rights I believe. CBA says if they make over $1 million they need to get an offer of that or more. Unless the team goes into reverse arbitration but there hasn't ever been much appetite to do that. So if I'm matt benning I either get my same salary, a raise, or the chance at being a UFA. no reason I'd agree to a lower salary with those options on the table.

If the Oilers don't qualify Benning, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to see what's out there. That being said, unless there is a team that thinks he is more than just a #6, which in my opinion, he's a #6 . A decent #6 but every time he gets more minutes, he falters. So unless he is willing to go to a crap team and chase the money, I don't see him getting 2 mill from another team that is remotely decent. The money just isn't there for a lot of teams, some for cap reasons other teams will have a self cap for financial reasons.

If I am the Oilers, I can't afford to be paying Benning 2 mill who in all likelihood will be a healthy scratch. I could see Bouchard maybe not being in the line up to start but much like Yamo, will find himself playing full time at some point.

Well between pouliot, Sekera and Lucic we have about $4.5 million in dead space versus well run teams so maybe you’re right. But I’d say Russell’s money is more significant.

Not sure what the dead cap space has to do with whether you give Benning 2 mill or not. If that cap space isn't tied up, doesn't mean you should be giving 6/7 dmen 2 mill. Having more cap space doesn't mean you should give out bad contracts. I think Benning is a 1-1.2 mill dman. If Benning wasn't right handed, no one in Edmonton would care if he left and frankly, not many teams would be lining up to sign him.

I think your assessment is off on Benning. When not forced into top pairing situations he's highly competent. You call him a number 6 but since they come in pairs that's no different than a number 5. Russell gets double the money (from a cap pov) for no additional benefit.

My point about the buyouts and retained salary is that we're starting in a hole versus well run teams. So it may be that Benning is asked to take a haircut, and athanasiou as well.

How many coaches have come and gone with the Oilers and none of them want to play him more than 14 bottom pairing minutes? Mclellan stopped playing him big minute, Hitchcock never elevated him. Tippett never did it. Larsson a right shot goes down in the play in early. Rather than keep the left- right combo that Tippett really likes, he elevated Russell and kept Benning in the 3rd pairing. If my assessment of Benning is off and he's capable of elevating, why would Tippet and Playflair - 2 guys that value left right and who did a pretty good job coaching this past year - not even consider elevating Benning?



No I agree he isn't a top guy. Not everyone is.

But Benning @ $2million > Russell @ $4 million

I'd save the Russell dollars because I think it makes a bigger dent in your cap issues.



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