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 Speculation » Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed?Pages (2): [1  2  >  »]
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 Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760961]
Sat, 30 May 2020 02:16 Go to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Do Oilers get Hosed on Lucic for Neil 3rd Rounder?[ 42 vote(s) ]
1.Yes of Course! extrapolating Goals per Game % is a HARD NO, but just like the draft picks given up for Chiarelli, and Mclennan, the NHL likes to give the Oilers the "special" treatment ... 8 / 19%
2.Yes of Course, extrapolate the Goals per Game Played %, because extrapolation of imaginary trends makes total sense, and the fairest decision for everyone .. 2 / 5%
3.HARD NO! the season officially ENDED, all stats are as IS, apply the same reasoning that the NHL used to determine all the regular season awards... 32 / 76%

I'm just going to jump ahead to the topic of Oilers 3rd round pick Lucic for Neal.

There has been some talk about how the NHL should just extrapolate Neils' and Lucic's season goals per game percentage over their cancelled games as a way to simulate finishing the season. First problem is they are taking a 70 game trend line and extrapolating it for the remaining 12 games, like the scoring rate in October can be fairly applied to April.. If you were to do that then take the last 2 weeks they played and apply that goal percentage over the next 11-12 games ... and they can't even say Neal or Lucic would have been in their respective line ups down the stretch, certainly Neal anyway.

The other thing is that the NHL used a HARD end of season protocol to determine the stats for players in determining the regular season awards, for instance in the Rocket Richard, both Pasternak and Ovie had 48 goals, although Ovie played 2 fewer games.. and the NHL awarded the trophy to BOTH players.. they didn't extrapolate goals/game percentage in that decision... the goals put on the trophy will be 48 .. not some extrapolated "what if" number.. They should apply the same protocol with the Neal/Lucic trade. The NHL already set the precedent for determining scoring stats in this years regular season, they will have a really hard time explaining how it would not apply as well to the Neal/Lucic trade conditions, that agreement is based on black and white conditions.. both signed it... nothing grey there.

[Updated on: Sat, 30 May 2020 02:28]


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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760962 is a reply to message #760961 ]
Sat, 30 May 2020 07:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPro  is currently offline JPro
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Conditional draft picks are a gamble. The players didn’t satisfy the conditions during the season. Tough break that the season was short, but unless the agreement addresses shortened seasons, too bad, so sad.

Losing the 3rd rounder still makes dumping Lucic worth it, so I won’t riot, but it’s the principle.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760963 is a reply to message #760962 ]
Sat, 30 May 2020 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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JPro wrote on Sat, 30 May 2020 07:13

Conditional draft picks are a gamble. The players didn’t satisfy the conditions during the season. Tough break that the season was short, but unless the agreement addresses shortened seasons, too bad, so sad.

Losing the 3rd rounder still makes dumping Lucic worth it, so I won’t riot, but it’s the principle.

Performance bonuses are owner to nhlpa members. Trade compensation is owner to owner so there could end up being two sets of rules. What about deals where a draft pick improves if a team makes a certain playoff round? There’s an extra round now.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760969 is a reply to message #760963 ]
Sat, 30 May 2020 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Sat, 30 May 2020 07:01

JPro wrote on Sat, 30 May 2020 07:13

Conditional draft picks are a gamble. The players didn’t satisfy the conditions during the season. Tough break that the season was short, but unless the agreement addresses shortened seasons, too bad, so sad.

Losing the 3rd rounder still makes dumping Lucic worth it, so I won’t riot, but it’s the principle.

Performance bonuses are owner to nhlpa members. Trade compensation is owner to owner so there could end up being two sets of rules. What about deals where a draft pick improves if a team makes a certain playoff round? There’s an extra round now.


In the case you bring up, I think making the playoffs will be considered making it into the round of 16, the Play-In, or qualification, round won't count ... but with the NHL you never know...



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Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760970 is a reply to message #760961 ]
Sat, 30 May 2020 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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It would be pretty ridiculous for them to pro-rate for the sake of only trades with hard targets. Did they miss Lucic on McDavid's wing for 2 months scoring 0 goals? That Lucic had equal value to Neal last summer :)

Neal was battling injuries in the last half of the year, it's very possible he scores nothing the rest of the way, or even gets hurt again.

This would be nothing more than the NHL folding to lobbying by the Lames and possibly other teams that want to be lame. WOuldn't deciding to pro-rate stats for the purpose of some contracts open up the NHLPA to argue it should be applied to player contracts as well? If they pro-rate that, then Drai should have a 127 point season. Teams should have to pay extra bonus money with pro-rated goal/assist/points/games played targets. The league should be largely against this.

[Updated on: Sat, 30 May 2020 13:53]


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760993 is a reply to message #760970 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 06:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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My opinion does not have anything to do with what benefits the Oilers. I do not think the NHL can prorate the stats for this pick. If they did, it would open up prorating for everything. If you did it for this trade, then you'd have to do it for every other trade. If you prorate for a trade, then you have to do it for contract bonuses. You can't discriminate. If a player has 17 goals in 69 games and has a 20 goal bonus, you have to pay him that bonus based on prorating. If the Flames complain, just go look at their contracts. I'd be surprised if they didn't have some players who didn't have performance bonuses. In a year where revenue will be down across the league, potentially whatever they do for a living will be hurt financially, I am sure the Flames ownership wouldn't be too thrilled to shell out potentially millions of dollars to players to pay out prorated bonuses all so the team can get a 3rd round pick so maybe they pick a player who if everything works out perfect might be in the Flames line up in 5 yrs.

[Updated on: Mon, 01 June 2020 06:48]


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760994 is a reply to message #760970 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 06:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 30 May 2020 13:51

It would be pretty ridiculous for them to pro-rate for the sake of only trades with hard targets. Did they miss Lucic on McDavid's wing for 2 months scoring 0 goals? That Lucic had equal value to Neal last summer :)

Neal was battling injuries in the last half of the year, it's very possible he scores nothing the rest of the way, or even gets hurt again.

This would be nothing more than the NHL folding to lobbying by the Lames and possibly other teams that want to be lame. WOuldn't deciding to pro-rate stats for the purpose of some contracts open up the NHLPA to argue it should be applied to player contracts as well? If they pro-rate that, then Drai should have a 127 point season. Teams should have to pay extra bonus money with pro-rated goal/assist/points/games played targets. The league should be largely against this.

I know they already decided the trophies but if you prorate the stats for the trade, do you not have to prorate everything? How do you just decide it only applies to certain things. So if they allow it, then they should do it for all trophies.

[Updated on: Mon, 01 June 2020 06:51]


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760996 is a reply to message #760994 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 06:48

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 30 May 2020 13:51

It would be pretty ridiculous for them to pro-rate for the sake of only trades with hard targets. Did they miss Lucic on McDavid's wing for 2 months scoring 0 goals? That Lucic had equal value to Neal last summer :)

Neal was battling injuries in the last half of the year, it's very possible he scores nothing the rest of the way, or even gets hurt again.

This would be nothing more than the NHL folding to lobbying by the Lames and possibly other teams that want to be lame. WOuldn't deciding to pro-rate stats for the purpose of some contracts open up the NHLPA to argue it should be applied to player contracts as well? If they pro-rate that, then Drai should have a 127 point season. Teams should have to pay extra bonus money with pro-rated goal/assist/points/games played targets. The league should be largely against this.

I know they already decided the trophies but if you prorate the stats for the trade, do you not have to prorate everything? How do you just decide it only applies to certain things. So if they allow it, then they should do it for all trophies.



Expecting the league to be 100% consistent shows a lack of attention to how the NHL has done things. Just look at the wheel of justice for player discipline.

I expect that this will be argued by both the Flames and Oilers to the league, and it's a bit of a coin toss as to who wins there. I think it makes sense to leave us the draft pick. The stats are what they are, and there's no guarantee that if they played the last 11 games, Neal may not have scored two more goals - especially as he was coming off an injury. But the NHL doesn't always make sense, and so I do think there's a possibility the Flames case gets accepted.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #760998 is a reply to message #760996 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 08:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 06:48

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 30 May 2020 13:51

It would be pretty ridiculous for them to pro-rate for the sake of only trades with hard targets. Did they miss Lucic on McDavid's wing for 2 months scoring 0 goals? That Lucic had equal value to Neal last summer :)

Neal was battling injuries in the last half of the year, it's very possible he scores nothing the rest of the way, or even gets hurt again.

This would be nothing more than the NHL folding to lobbying by the Lames and possibly other teams that want to be lame. WOuldn't deciding to pro-rate stats for the purpose of some contracts open up the NHLPA to argue it should be applied to player contracts as well? If they pro-rate that, then Drai should have a 127 point season. Teams should have to pay extra bonus money with pro-rated goal/assist/points/games played targets. The league should be largely against this.

I know they already decided the trophies but if you prorate the stats for the trade, do you not have to prorate everything? How do you just decide it only applies to certain things. So if they allow it, then they should do it for all trophies.



Expecting the league to be 100% consistent shows a lack of attention to how the NHL has done things. Just look at the wheel of justice for player discipline.

I expect that this will be argued by both the Flames and Oilers to the league, and it's a bit of a coin toss as to who wins there. I think it makes sense to leave us the draft pick. The stats are what they are, and there's no guarantee that if they played the last 11 games, Neal may not have scored two more goals - especially as he was coming off an injury. But the NHL doesn't always make sense, and so I do think there's a possibility the Flames case gets accepted.

If they do agree to prorate his stats to satisfy the trade, if I am an agent I am licking my chops. I don't see how the league can allow the trade to happen due to prorating, then say no to any player who has a performance clause that he potentially didn't get because the season was cut short. I am no lawyer but I don't see how the law would rule in favor of a trade then say no to pay people and potentially impact a persons ability to provide for his family. So if the league says yes to it, they could be costing the owners MILLIONS of dollars. The league at the end of the day is all about money and mostly money for the ownership.

If I was an owner of a team not the Oilers or Flames, I am already losing big money due to the league being shut down, then I have to shell out more money to pay off players bonuses thanks to a the league prorating stats to fulfill a somewhat insignificant part of a trade that doesn't involve me, I'd be livid.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761002 is a reply to message #760996 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 08:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 06:48

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 30 May 2020 13:51

It would be pretty ridiculous for them to pro-rate for the sake of only trades with hard targets. Did they miss Lucic on McDavid's wing for 2 months scoring 0 goals? That Lucic had equal value to Neal last summer :)

Neal was battling injuries in the last half of the year, it's very possible he scores nothing the rest of the way, or even gets hurt again.

This would be nothing more than the NHL folding to lobbying by the Lames and possibly other teams that want to be lame. WOuldn't deciding to pro-rate stats for the purpose of some contracts open up the NHLPA to argue it should be applied to player contracts as well? If they pro-rate that, then Drai should have a 127 point season. Teams should have to pay extra bonus money with pro-rated goal/assist/points/games played targets. The league should be largely against this.

I know they already decided the trophies but if you prorate the stats for the trade, do you not have to prorate everything? How do you just decide it only applies to certain things. So if they allow it, then they should do it for all trophies.



Expecting the league to be 100% consistent shows a lack of attention to how the NHL has done things. Just look at the wheel of justice for player discipline.

I expect that this will be argued by both the Flames and Oilers to the league, and it's a bit of a coin toss as to who wins there. I think it makes sense to leave us the draft pick. The stats are what they are, and there's no guarantee that if they played the last 11 games, Neal may not have scored two more goals - especially as he was coming off an injury. But the NHL doesn't always make sense, and so I do think there's a possibility the Flames case gets accepted.


Doing random stuff like prorating stats for special purposes does leave an opening for the NHLPA to argue though, no? NHL can do stupid stuff in isolation all they please that has no implications or openings for the NHLPA to jump in and argue something in their own favour. In this case, opening up the pro-rating can of worms puts some money in reach of the PA if they call out the inconsistency.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761009 is a reply to message #761002 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 09:34

Adam wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 08:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 06:48

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 30 May 2020 13:51

It would be pretty ridiculous for them to pro-rate for the sake of only trades with hard targets. Did they miss Lucic on McDavid's wing for 2 months scoring 0 goals? That Lucic had equal value to Neal last summer :)

Neal was battling injuries in the last half of the year, it's very possible he scores nothing the rest of the way, or even gets hurt again.

This would be nothing more than the NHL folding to lobbying by the Lames and possibly other teams that want to be lame. WOuldn't deciding to pro-rate stats for the purpose of some contracts open up the NHLPA to argue it should be applied to player contracts as well? If they pro-rate that, then Drai should have a 127 point season. Teams should have to pay extra bonus money with pro-rated goal/assist/points/games played targets. The league should be largely against this.

I know they already decided the trophies but if you prorate the stats for the trade, do you not have to prorate everything? How do you just decide it only applies to certain things. So if they allow it, then they should do it for all trophies.



Expecting the league to be 100% consistent shows a lack of attention to how the NHL has done things. Just look at the wheel of justice for player discipline.

I expect that this will be argued by both the Flames and Oilers to the league, and it's a bit of a coin toss as to who wins there. I think it makes sense to leave us the draft pick. The stats are what they are, and there's no guarantee that if they played the last 11 games, Neal may not have scored two more goals - especially as he was coming off an injury. But the NHL doesn't always make sense, and so I do think there's a possibility the Flames case gets accepted.


Doing random stuff like prorating stats for special purposes does leave an opening for the NHLPA to argue though, no? NHL can do stupid stuff in isolation all they please that has no implications or openings for the NHLPA to jump in and argue something in their own favour. In this case, opening up the pro-rating can of worms puts some money in reach of the PA if they call out the inconsistency.


I hope you're right!!! If the Oilers are smart, they make that part of their argument.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761011 is a reply to message #760961 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761024 is a reply to message #761011 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46

I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.

What do you do about the teams not in it? If they use the stats from the play in to count and a player scores his 1 or 2 goal he needs to get a bonus, if I am an Ottawa guy or a Detroit guy or whoever and I am a goal short of a bonus, I'd be livid if a player was able to get his but I couldn't.

That is why I think the league even thought doing the right thing isn't always what the NHL ends up doing, I think they'd be nuts to allow ANY prorating. Just opens up way too many cans of worms. Let it cut and dry. Unless you had specific wording for prorating in the contract for whatever it is, the season is deemed over and the stats are what they are. Plus where do you stop the prorating? Once you do it once, how can you stop. If a player is on a 20 goal pace and some guy slashes him over the arm and breaks it ending his season. Prorate his numbers and he's over 20 if he finished. It wasn't his fault his arm was broken, the other guys slashed him.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761041 is a reply to message #761024 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 11:55

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46

I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.

What do you do about the teams not in it? If they use the stats from the play in to count and a player scores his 1 or 2 goal he needs to get a bonus, if I am an Ottawa guy or a Detroit guy or whoever and I am a goal short of a bonus, I'd be livid if a player was able to get his but I couldn't.

That is why I think the league even thought doing the right thing isn't always what the NHL ends up doing, I think they'd be nuts to allow ANY prorating. Just opens up way too many cans of worms. Let it cut and dry. Unless you had specific wording for prorating in the contract for whatever it is, the season is deemed over and the stats are what they are. Plus where do you stop the prorating? Once you do it once, how can you stop. If a player is on a 20 goal pace and some guy slashes him over the arm and breaks it ending his season. Prorate his numbers and he's over 20 if he finished. It wasn't his fault his arm was broken, the other guys slashed him.


I mean, there's literally no way to make this season normal. As it stands right now not every team has played the same number of regular season games, and not everyone had the same "opportunity" to reach their bonuses. With 77% of the league still playing though, it probably makes it more realistic than if you only had 16 teams playing.

The NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate what they want to do with the points. I can't see them wanting a whole new COVID category they have to reference for the rest of time. I think the NHLPA pushes for regular season, and I'm not sure that the NHL pushes back real hard (other than the embarrassment of backtracking, which honestly, isn't the first time it would have happened in the NHL).

I don't think they prorate. I think there's enough teams still playing that it's simply, if you're in, you get the chance to earn it.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761042 is a reply to message #761041 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 17:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 11:55

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46

I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.

What do you do about the teams not in it? If they use the stats from the play in to count and a player scores his 1 or 2 goal he needs to get a bonus, if I am an Ottawa guy or a Detroit guy or whoever and I am a goal short of a bonus, I'd be livid if a player was able to get his but I couldn't.

That is why I think the league even thought doing the right thing isn't always what the NHL ends up doing, I think they'd be nuts to allow ANY prorating. Just opens up way too many cans of worms. Let it cut and dry. Unless you had specific wording for prorating in the contract for whatever it is, the season is deemed over and the stats are what they are. Plus where do you stop the prorating? Once you do it once, how can you stop. If a player is on a 20 goal pace and some guy slashes him over the arm and breaks it ending his season. Prorate his numbers and he's over 20 if he finished. It wasn't his fault his arm was broken, the other guys slashed him.


I mean, there's literally no way to make this season normal. As it stands right now not every team has played the same number of regular season games, and not everyone had the same "opportunity" to reach their bonuses. With 77% of the league still playing though, it probably makes it more realistic than if you only had 16 teams playing.

The NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate what they want to do with the points. I can't see them wanting a whole new COVID category they have to reference for the rest of time. I think the NHLPA pushes for regular season, and I'm not sure that the NHL pushes back real hard (other than the embarrassment of backtracking, which honestly, isn't the first time it would have happened in the NHL).

I don't think they prorate. I think there's enough teams still playing that it's simply, if you're in, you get the chance to earn it.


But they can't count it as regular season can they? What if Leon pots 5? Is he now the Richard winner with OV and Pasta not playing? Even worse - what if Matthews pots 2? Is Toronto even allowed a parade?



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761044 is a reply to message #761042 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Mike wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 17:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 11:55

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46

I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.

What do you do about the teams not in it? If they use the stats from the play in to count and a player scores his 1 or 2 goal he needs to get a bonus, if I am an Ottawa guy or a Detroit guy or whoever and I am a goal short of a bonus, I'd be livid if a player was able to get his but I couldn't.

That is why I think the league even thought doing the right thing isn't always what the NHL ends up doing, I think they'd be nuts to allow ANY prorating. Just opens up way too many cans of worms. Let it cut and dry. Unless you had specific wording for prorating in the contract for whatever it is, the season is deemed over and the stats are what they are. Plus where do you stop the prorating? Once you do it once, how can you stop. If a player is on a 20 goal pace and some guy slashes him over the arm and breaks it ending his season. Prorate his numbers and he's over 20 if he finished. It wasn't his fault his arm was broken, the other guys slashed him.


I mean, there's literally no way to make this season normal. As it stands right now not every team has played the same number of regular season games, and not everyone had the same "opportunity" to reach their bonuses. With 77% of the league still playing though, it probably makes it more realistic than if you only had 16 teams playing.

The NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate what they want to do with the points. I can't see them wanting a whole new COVID category they have to reference for the rest of time. I think the NHLPA pushes for regular season, and I'm not sure that the NHL pushes back real hard (other than the embarrassment of backtracking, which honestly, isn't the first time it would have happened in the NHL).

I don't think they prorate. I think there's enough teams still playing that it's simply, if you're in, you get the chance to earn it.


But they can't count it as regular season can they? What if Leon pots 5? Is he now the Richard winner with OV and Pasta not playing? Even worse - what if Matthews pots 2? Is Toronto even allowed a parade?



OV and Pasta would be playing though, right? I'm assuming the seeding game between the top four would also count for points. The only teams that wouldn't be playing are San Jose, Anaheim, Los Angeles, New Jersey, Ottawa, and Detroit, and I don't think anyone was playing for any hardware.

But to be honest, I don't know. I think it probably works better to count as playoff points, though there is some intrigue added for the regular season point totals. And of course, I'd like to see McDavid reach 100 points.

[Updated on: Mon, 01 June 2020 14:42]


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761051 is a reply to message #761044 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:38

Mike wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 17:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 11:55

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46

I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.

What do you do about the teams not in it? If they use the stats from the play in to count and a player scores his 1 or 2 goal he needs to get a bonus, if I am an Ottawa guy or a Detroit guy or whoever and I am a goal short of a bonus, I'd be livid if a player was able to get his but I couldn't.

That is why I think the league even thought doing the right thing isn't always what the NHL ends up doing, I think they'd be nuts to allow ANY prorating. Just opens up way too many cans of worms. Let it cut and dry. Unless you had specific wording for prorating in the contract for whatever it is, the season is deemed over and the stats are what they are. Plus where do you stop the prorating? Once you do it once, how can you stop. If a player is on a 20 goal pace and some guy slashes him over the arm and breaks it ending his season. Prorate his numbers and he's over 20 if he finished. It wasn't his fault his arm was broken, the other guys slashed him.


I mean, there's literally no way to make this season normal. As it stands right now not every team has played the same number of regular season games, and not everyone had the same "opportunity" to reach their bonuses. With 77% of the league still playing though, it probably makes it more realistic than if you only had 16 teams playing.

The NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate what they want to do with the points. I can't see them wanting a whole new COVID category they have to reference for the rest of time. I think the NHLPA pushes for regular season, and I'm not sure that the NHL pushes back real hard (other than the embarrassment of backtracking, which honestly, isn't the first time it would have happened in the NHL).

I don't think they prorate. I think there's enough teams still playing that it's simply, if you're in, you get the chance to earn it.


But they can't count it as regular season can they? What if Leon pots 5? Is he now the Richard winner with OV and Pasta not playing? Even worse - what if Matthews pots 2? Is Toronto even allowed a parade?



OV and Pasta would be playing though, right? I'm assuming the seeding game between the top four would also count for points. The only teams that wouldn't be playing are San Jose, Anaheim, Los Angeles, New Jersey, Ottawa, and Detroit, and I don't think anyone was playing for any hardware.

But to be honest, I don't know. I think it probably works better to count as playoff points, though there is some intrigue added for the regular season point totals. And of course, I'd like to see McDavid reach 100 points.


I think the fact the NHL has announced award winners suggests this is final.

No idea what they'll do with the points. It definitely makes it an asterisk if there's someone who puts up 48 points, but with an extra round to do it in...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761113 is a reply to message #761051 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 15:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:38

Mike wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 17:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 11:55

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46

I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.

What do you do about the teams not in it? If they use the stats from the play in to count and a player scores his 1 or 2 goal he needs to get a bonus, if I am an Ottawa guy or a Detroit guy or whoever and I am a goal short of a bonus, I'd be livid if a player was able to get his but I couldn't.

That is why I think the league even thought doing the right thing isn't always what the NHL ends up doing, I think they'd be nuts to allow ANY prorating. Just opens up way too many cans of worms. Let it cut and dry. Unless you had specific wording for prorating in the contract for whatever it is, the season is deemed over and the stats are what they are. Plus where do you stop the prorating? Once you do it once, how can you stop. If a player is on a 20 goal pace and some guy slashes him over the arm and breaks it ending his season. Prorate his numbers and he's over 20 if he finished. It wasn't his fault his arm was broken, the other guys slashed him.


I mean, there's literally no way to make this season normal. As it stands right now not every team has played the same number of regular season games, and not everyone had the same "opportunity" to reach their bonuses. With 77% of the league still playing though, it probably makes it more realistic than if you only had 16 teams playing.

The NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate what they want to do with the points. I can't see them wanting a whole new COVID category they have to reference for the rest of time. I think the NHLPA pushes for regular season, and I'm not sure that the NHL pushes back real hard (other than the embarrassment of backtracking, which honestly, isn't the first time it would have happened in the NHL).

I don't think they prorate. I think there's enough teams still playing that it's simply, if you're in, you get the chance to earn it.


But they can't count it as regular season can they? What if Leon pots 5? Is he now the Richard winner with OV and Pasta not playing? Even worse - what if Matthews pots 2? Is Toronto even allowed a parade?



OV and Pasta would be playing though, right? I'm assuming the seeding game between the top four would also count for points. The only teams that wouldn't be playing are San Jose, Anaheim, Los Angeles, New Jersey, Ottawa, and Detroit, and I don't think anyone was playing for any hardware.

But to be honest, I don't know. I think it probably works better to count as playoff points, though there is some intrigue added for the regular season point totals. And of course, I'd like to see McDavid reach 100 points.


I think the fact the NHL has announced award winners suggests this is final.

No idea what they'll do with the points. It definitely makes it an asterisk if there's someone who puts up 48 points, but with an extra round to do it in...


Did they actually though? Or was it everyone announcing it on their behalf?

I think they said the season was done, points are complete, but that's the extent of it, no?



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761114 is a reply to message #761113 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 20:29

Adam wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 15:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:38

Mike wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 17:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 11:55

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46

I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.

What do you do about the teams not in it? If they use the stats from the play in to count and a player scores his 1 or 2 goal he needs to get a bonus, if I am an Ottawa guy or a Detroit guy or whoever and I am a goal short of a bonus, I'd be livid if a player was able to get his but I couldn't.

That is why I think the league even thought doing the right thing isn't always what the NHL ends up doing, I think they'd be nuts to allow ANY prorating. Just opens up way too many cans of worms. Let it cut and dry. Unless you had specific wording for prorating in the contract for whatever it is, the season is deemed over and the stats are what they are. Plus where do you stop the prorating? Once you do it once, how can you stop. If a player is on a 20 goal pace and some guy slashes him over the arm and breaks it ending his season. Prorate his numbers and he's over 20 if he finished. It wasn't his fault his arm was broken, the other guys slashed him.


I mean, there's literally no way to make this season normal. As it stands right now not every team has played the same number of regular season games, and not everyone had the same "opportunity" to reach their bonuses. With 77% of the league still playing though, it probably makes it more realistic than if you only had 16 teams playing.

The NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate what they want to do with the points. I can't see them wanting a whole new COVID category they have to reference for the rest of time. I think the NHLPA pushes for regular season, and I'm not sure that the NHL pushes back real hard (other than the embarrassment of backtracking, which honestly, isn't the first time it would have happened in the NHL).

I don't think they prorate. I think there's enough teams still playing that it's simply, if you're in, you get the chance to earn it.


But they can't count it as regular season can they? What if Leon pots 5? Is he now the Richard winner with OV and Pasta not playing? Even worse - what if Matthews pots 2? Is Toronto even allowed a parade?



OV and Pasta would be playing though, right? I'm assuming the seeding game between the top four would also count for points. The only teams that wouldn't be playing are San Jose, Anaheim, Los Angeles, New Jersey, Ottawa, and Detroit, and I don't think anyone was playing for any hardware.

But to be honest, I don't know. I think it probably works better to count as playoff points, though there is some intrigue added for the regular season point totals. And of course, I'd like to see McDavid reach 100 points.


I think the fact the NHL has announced award winners suggests this is final.

No idea what they'll do with the points. It definitely makes it an asterisk if there's someone who puts up 48 points, but with an extra round to do it in...


Did they actually though? Or was it everyone announcing it on their behalf?

I think they said the season was done, points are complete, but that's the extent of it, no?


Nope - check the official twitter account. Announced Hart, Jennings, Richard and President’s Trophy winners last week.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761115 is a reply to message #761114 ]
Mon, 01 June 2020 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 21:09

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 20:29

Adam wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 15:07

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:38

Mike wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 14:10

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 17:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 11:55

mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 10:46

I have a feeling NHLPA will push for play-in round to count for regular season points so that players have the chance to get bonuses. Apparently there has been no discussion yet by the NHL and NHLPA for where the Play-In points will count; I can't imagine a separate category for the history books, and while them counting as playoff points make more sense to me, I could see the NHLPA wishing for regular season point accumulation. Could be some good storylines and trophy chases that drum up support for the NHL too.

If that is the case, you can almost take it to the bank Neal gets two goals and the Oilers give up the pick.

What do you do about the teams not in it? If they use the stats from the play in to count and a player scores his 1 or 2 goal he needs to get a bonus, if I am an Ottawa guy or a Detroit guy or whoever and I am a goal short of a bonus, I'd be livid if a player was able to get his but I couldn't.

That is why I think the league even thought doing the right thing isn't always what the NHL ends up doing, I think they'd be nuts to allow ANY prorating. Just opens up way too many cans of worms. Let it cut and dry. Unless you had specific wording for prorating in the contract for whatever it is, the season is deemed over and the stats are what they are. Plus where do you stop the prorating? Once you do it once, how can you stop. If a player is on a 20 goal pace and some guy slashes him over the arm and breaks it ending his season. Prorate his numbers and he's over 20 if he finished. It wasn't his fault his arm was broken, the other guys slashed him.


I mean, there's literally no way to make this season normal. As it stands right now not every team has played the same number of regular season games, and not everyone had the same "opportunity" to reach their bonuses. With 77% of the league still playing though, it probably makes it more realistic than if you only had 16 teams playing.

The NHL and NHLPA will have to negotiate what they want to do with the points. I can't see them wanting a whole new COVID category they have to reference for the rest of time. I think the NHLPA pushes for regular season, and I'm not sure that the NHL pushes back real hard (other than the embarrassment of backtracking, which honestly, isn't the first time it would have happened in the NHL).

I don't think they prorate. I think there's enough teams still playing that it's simply, if you're in, you get the chance to earn it.


But they can't count it as regular season can they? What if Leon pots 5? Is he now the Richard winner with OV and Pasta not playing? Even worse - what if Matthews pots 2? Is Toronto even allowed a parade?



OV and Pasta would be playing though, right? I'm assuming the seeding game between the top four would also count for points. The only teams that wouldn't be playing are San Jose, Anaheim, Los Angeles, New Jersey, Ottawa, and Detroit, and I don't think anyone was playing for any hardware.

But to be honest, I don't know. I think it probably works better to count as playoff points, though there is some intrigue added for the regular season point totals. And of course, I'd like to see McDavid reach 100 points.


I think the fact the NHL has announced award winners suggests this is final.

No idea what they'll do with the points. It definitely makes it an asterisk if there's someone who puts up 48 points, but with an extra round to do it in...


Did they actually though? Or was it everyone announcing it on their behalf?

I think they said the season was done, points are complete, but that's the extent of it, no?


Nope - check the official twitter account. Announced Hart*, Jennings, Richard and President’s Trophy winners last week.


*Art Ross

They've certainly backed themselves into a corner and given this the thought it deserves, hey?



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761156 is a reply to message #761115 ]
Tue, 02 June 2020 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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Why would it be any different than a time when a player has been injured? Points have never been pro-rated in the past. Treat it just like every person has their season end as if they all were injured. Done.


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761161 is a reply to message #761156 ]
Tue, 02 June 2020 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 02 June 2020 15:55

Why would it be any different than a time when a player has been injured? Points have never been pro-rated in the past. Treat it just like every person has their season end as if they all were injured. Done.


What are you doing for the play-in rounds for points?

The NHL already said the play-in isn't "playoffs". But I feel like they have to count them as such. Otherwise when you are talking about McDavid and Crosby career point totals, you'll always have to refer to regular season, COVID play-in, and playoffs.

They might have to backtrack somewhere.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761198 is a reply to message #761161 ]
Wed, 03 June 2020 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 02 June 2020 17:06

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 02 June 2020 15:55

Why would it be any different than a time when a player has been injured? Points have never been pro-rated in the past. Treat it just like every person has their season end as if they all were injured. Done.


What are you doing for the play-in rounds for points?

The NHL already said the play-in isn't "playoffs". But I feel like they have to count them as such. Otherwise when you are talking about McDavid and Crosby career point totals, you'll always have to refer to regular season, COVID play-in, and playoffs.

They might have to backtrack somewhere.


It would be bizarre if they treated these like exhibition points. I do think if they're not regular season points, they're playoff points. It really has to be one or the other.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761200 is a reply to message #761198 ]
Wed, 03 June 2020 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Wed, 03 June 2020 11:18

mightyreasoner wrote on Tue, 02 June 2020 17:06

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 02 June 2020 15:55

Why would it be any different than a time when a player has been injured? Points have never been pro-rated in the past. Treat it just like every person has their season end as if they all were injured. Done.


What are you doing for the play-in rounds for points?

The NHL already said the play-in isn't "playoffs". But I feel like they have to count them as such. Otherwise when you are talking about McDavid and Crosby career point totals, you'll always have to refer to regular season, COVID play-in, and playoffs.

They might have to backtrack somewhere.


It would be bizarre if they treated these like exhibition points. I do think if they're not regular season points, they're playoff points. It really has to be one or the other.

Did they change how they counted playoff points when they went from 5 game series to 7 game series back in the 80's? If not we have our answer.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761611 is a reply to message #760961 ]
Thu, 11 June 2020 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Seems like JP's stance is progressing on coming back to Oil, says "never say never", maybe he's realizing his NHL career is starting to slip (has slipped) through his fingers.. him coming to camp would be a + for both the Oil and JP.
https://twitter.com/LonnbergMari/status/1271150091081003011
Chiarelli would have traded him for a 2 x 3rds by now... feels good to have a real GM now :)

[Updated on: Thu, 11 June 2020 17:33]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761612 is a reply to message #761611 ]
Thu, 11 June 2020 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 June 2020 17:31

Seems like JP's stance is progressing on coming back to Oil, says "never say never", maybe he's realizing his NHL career is starting to slip (has slipped) through his fingers.. him coming to camp would be a + for both the Oil and JP.
https://twitter.com/LonnbergMari/status/1271150091081003011
Chiarelli would have traded him for a 2 x 3rds by now... feels good to have a real GM now :)


Oh god, if Chia was still here... If I had to guess, likely he convinces Hitch to stick with the team, and then he caves with Pulju's agent and gives the kid a 4M 1 year deal and then Hitch goes on to bench him for 50%+ of games. And Chia is FINALLY fired and the next GM just lets Pulju walk as a UFA instead of giving him a QO at 4M.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 June 2020 17:49]


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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761623 is a reply to message #761611 ]
Fri, 12 June 2020 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie  is currently offline Xombie
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 June 2020 16:31

Seems like JP's stance is progressing on coming back to Oil, says "never say never", maybe he's realizing his NHL career is starting to slip (has slipped) through his fingers.. him coming to camp would be a + for both the Oil and JP.
https://twitter.com/LonnbergMari/status/1271150091081003011
Chiarelli would have traded him for a 2 x 3rds by now... feels good to have a real GM now :)

This LonnbergMari is good looking and is always seeking other people's approval of her attractiveness by posting many thirst traps on her twatter, along with Oilers news.

You follow for the Oiler news right Skook?



Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #761637 is a reply to message #761623 ]
Fri, 12 June 2020 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Xombie wrote on Fri, 12 June 2020 11:34

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 June 2020 16:31

Seems like JP's stance is progressing on coming back to Oil, says "never say never", maybe he's realizing his NHL career is starting to slip (has slipped) through his fingers.. him coming to camp would be a + for both the Oil and JP.
https://twitter.com/LonnbergMari/status/1271150091081003011
Chiarelli would have traded him for a 2 x 3rds by now... feels good to have a real GM now :)

This LonnbergMari is good looking and is always seeking other people's approval of her attractiveness by posting many thirst traps on her twatter, along with Oilers news.

You follow for the Oiler news right Skook?


Never even looked at her image, got the link from a Lowetide forum.. is she supposed to be the Finnish Tracy Lane? I'll go check her out right now..



OK, pretty skimpy data to go on but .. she's no Tracy Lane.. 3

[Updated on: Sat, 13 June 2020 01:32]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764274 is a reply to message #760961 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Officially yes. We get hosed.


You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764275 is a reply to message #764274 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 22:27

Officially yes. We get hosed.


Omfg. They can’t be serious. This is unreal.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764278 is a reply to message #764274 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 19:27

Officially yes. We get hosed.


I dont get it, or fully agree with the decision, but once I heard they were prorating stats for bonuses I assumed this would be the case



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764279 is a reply to message #764278 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gator21  is currently offline Gator21
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Effing BS!! And u leak this Friday night at 10 pm EST!? Sooo slimy. I thought there was suppose to be a hearing where both sides air their arguments...did this happen already? Conditions were not met plain and simple. NHL is a joke, easy fix was to give the lames a compensatory pick at the end of the round


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764281 is a reply to message #764278 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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PlusOne wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 21:02

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 19:27

Officially yes. We get hosed.


I dont get it, or fully agree with the decision, but once I heard they were prorating stats for bonuses I assumed this would be the case


I don't think they agreed to prorate bonuses - only the amount of games required to qualify for them:

Quote:

Regular Season Bonuses
In the Return to Play plan, the NHLPA and NHL have attempted to resolve issues around regular season bonuses. The two sides agreed to prorate the threshold of the minimum games needed for earning certain regular-season bonuses based on performance and games played. Typically, for a player to earn their bonus, a minimum games played threshold must be met. Since the 2019-20 season was shortened, the league and union have agreed to apply a proration factor of 70/82 to determine if a player has achieved bonuses. The plan outlines the following:

If a player meets the minimum games played thresholds only after the threshold is prorated by a factor of 70/82, he shall receive the Bonus amount prorated by a factor of 70/82.
If a player meets the minimum games played thresholds without the threshold being pro-rated by a factor of 70/82, he shall receive 100% of the Bonus amount.
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Therefore, for example, if a players contract provided a bonus of $100,000 for playing in a minimum of 75 games in a season, the proration factor would be applied, and the player would only receive $85,365.85, assuming they met the games threshold after the proration factor was applied.

However, if the contract only had a threshold of 65 games played, for example, the player would be entitled to the full bonus amount as long as they played in a minimum of 65 games.

This can have a profound impact on a player with a bonus heavy contract. According to Capfriendly.com, Elias Pettersson of the Vancouver Canucks can earn up to $2,850,000 in performance bonuses this season. Pettersson’s base salary is $832,500, with a signing bonus of $92,500 for a total salary of $925,000 or roughly a third of the total amount he can earn in performance bonuses. The proration rate will probably help Pettersson achieve some performance bonuses in his contract, however, it is unlikely that he will receive the full $2,850,000.

While the system is not perfect, it seems to be a fair process to determine whether a player should earn their bonus.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanlake/2020/07/16/nhl-return- to-play-impact-on-player-bonuses-and-player-opt-outs/#5b0229 eb56f6

Unless I read that completely wrong, if you needed 21 goals and at least 70 games played, and you had 19 goals and played in 67, then you're good on the games played piece but not on the goals. If you had 21 goals, then you now are good on the games played too.

That's totally different than what they're doing with Neal/Lucic.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764285 is a reply to message #764281 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 21:16

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 21:02

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 19:27

Officially yes. We get hosed.


I dont get it, or fully agree with the decision, but once I heard they were prorating stats for bonuses I assumed this would be the case


I don't think they agreed to prorate bonuses - only the amount of games required to qualify for them:

Quote:

Regular Season Bonuses
In the Return to Play plan, the NHLPA and NHL have attempted to resolve issues around regular season bonuses. The two sides agreed to prorate the threshold of the minimum games needed for earning certain regular-season bonuses based on performance and games played. Typically, for a player to earn their bonus, a minimum games played threshold must be met. Since the 2019-20 season was shortened, the league and union have agreed to apply a proration factor of 70/82 to determine if a player has achieved bonuses. The plan outlines the following:

If a player meets the minimum games played thresholds only after the threshold is prorated by a factor of 70/82, he shall receive the Bonus amount prorated by a factor of 70/82.
If a player meets the minimum games played thresholds without the threshold being pro-rated by a factor of 70/82, he shall receive 100% of the Bonus amount.
Recommended For You

Revealed: The Plan To Extract Lionel Messi’s Best Champions League Form For FC Barcelona
Lionel Messi: Inter Milan Reportedly Set Aside Astronomical €260 Million Fee To Land Barcelona Star
Donny Van De Beek And Manchester United: Would It Work?
Therefore, for example, if a players contract provided a bonus of $100,000 for playing in a minimum of 75 games in a season, the proration factor would be applied, and the player would only receive $85,365.85, assuming they met the games threshold after the proration factor was applied.

However, if the contract only had a threshold of 65 games played, for example, the player would be entitled to the full bonus amount as long as they played in a minimum of 65 games.

This can have a profound impact on a player with a bonus heavy contract. According to Capfriendly.com, Elias Pettersson of the Vancouver Canucks can earn up to $2,850,000 in performance bonuses this season. Pettersson’s base salary is $832,500, with a signing bonus of $92,500 for a total salary of $925,000 or roughly a third of the total amount he can earn in performance bonuses. The proration rate will probably help Pettersson achieve some performance bonuses in his contract, however, it is unlikely that he will receive the full $2,850,000.

While the system is not perfect, it seems to be a fair process to determine whether a player should earn their bonus.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanlake/2020/07/16/nhl-return- to-play-impact-on-player-bonuses-and-player-opt-outs/#5b0229 eb56f6

Unless I read that completely wrong, if you needed 21 goals and at least 70 games played, and you had 19 goals and played in 67, then you're good on the games played piece but not on the goals. If you had 21 goals, then you now are good on the games played too.

That's totally different than what they're doing with Neal/Lucic.


Interesting.
Thanks for the info, it is the first time I have seen it laid out with specifics. For the last couple of weeks, since the announced the return to play plan, this has been a topic a couple of times on satellite NHL radio. They have talked about player bonuses and how the players wouldnt have agreed to a new CBA/return to play without pro rating being part of it.
In hindsight I dont specifically remember them talking about stat related bonuses so it is entirely possible I just assumed that part of it.



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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764283 is a reply to message #764274 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 19:27

Officially yes. We get hosed.


We just have to accept that we're masters of getting the short end on everything...except draft lotteries.




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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764284 is a reply to message #764283 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 21:41

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 19:27

Officially yes. We get hosed.


We just have to accept that we're masters of getting the short end on everything...except draft lotteries.



And the draft lotteries is in spite of all the times they changed it to hurt our odds.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764276 is a reply to message #760961 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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I'm assuming that all stats are prorated then. Drai with 127 pts?


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764280 is a reply to message #764276 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Fri, 31 July 2020 20:14

I'm assuming that all stats are prorated then. Drai with 127 pts?


Just a ridiculous decision. I'd like someone to ask Bettman if that means that all players stats are getting prorated for bonuses too.

What a joke.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55


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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764291 is a reply to message #764280 ]
Sat, 01 August 2020 04:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rutuu  is currently offline Rutuu
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I'm pretty disappointed in the decision. Plus I remember you saying you worked with a lot of contracts in your professional life, so sadly I got excited we'd win this one like you said.

Oh well we've got McDavid and Drai and we're in the playoffs. It's still a winner trade.



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 Re: Lucic for Neal 3rd Rounder, Do Oilers get Hosed? [message #764277 is a reply to message #760961 ]
Fri, 31 July 2020 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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And to be totally transparent, there is no NHL release, just a leak to an insider at 7PM on a Friday before the long weekend the playoffs begin.

Just trying to bury it to get the minimal backlash from fans.



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