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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743167 is a reply to message #743159 ]
Mon, 23 September 2019 11:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum is currently offline Magnum
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Adam wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 10:26

Magnum wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 08:24

Adam wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 21:35

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 14:34


That seems pretty close to opening night roster. Those five guys battling for two press box seats. Probably one of Bear or Lagesson sticks around.

Hate seeing Cave in a 3C position, even though I think he's had a good camp (good camp meaning he probably earned the 4C or 13F spot).


As someone (Jonathan Willis?) pointed out on twitter today, Cave has 8 points in 56 NHL games as a forward. That's basically the definition of a fringe player. If he's an everyday player, then the Oilers are a weak team. If he's the third line center? That's damning.


It is possible that he’s changed something and is better.


He's 24. You don't usually see guys take quantum leaps forward at that age. His best full season in the AHL was 35 points in 76 games. He was doing really well last year in the AHL before being recalled by Boston - 6-12-18 in 15 games, but the sample size is so small that it's hard to make any judgements on it. Given everything else he's done, it looks more likely that that was just a really good hot streak than that he'd suddenly developed in to a point a game player at the AHL level - especially since he failed to duplicate results at the NHL level. His production was marginal when he came up to the Bruins, and then declined further when he came to the Oilers.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that he was an extremely late bloomer and he's suddenly going to be ready to be an NHL third liner...it's just extremely unlikely.


The extremely unlikely is where you find the best value/$. Point I'm making is that it's worth a look and not a good idea to conclude without.

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743173 is a reply to message #743159 ]
Mon, 23 September 2019 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 10:26

Magnum wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 08:24

Adam wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 21:35

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 14:34


That seems pretty close to opening night roster. Those five guys battling for two press box seats. Probably one of Bear or Lagesson sticks around.

Hate seeing Cave in a 3C position, even though I think he's had a good camp (good camp meaning he probably earned the 4C or 13F spot).


As someone (Jonathan Willis?) pointed out on twitter today, Cave has 8 points in 56 NHL games as a forward. That's basically the definition of a fringe player. If he's an everyday player, then the Oilers are a weak team. If he's the third line center? That's damning.


It is possible that he’s changed something and is better.


He's 24. You don't usually see guys take quantum leaps forward at that age. His best full season in the AHL was 35 points in 76 games. He was doing really well last year in the AHL before being recalled by Boston - 6-12-18 in 15 games, but the sample size is so small that it's hard to make any judgements on it. Given everything else he's done, it looks more likely that that was just a really good hot streak than that he'd suddenly developed in to a point a game player at the AHL level - especially since he failed to duplicate results at the NHL level. His production was marginal when he came up to the Bruins, and then declined further when he came to the Oilers.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that he was an extremely late bloomer and he's suddenly going to be ready to be an NHL third liner...it's just extremely unlikely.

I thought all players didn't develop on the same development curve, some taking way longer? I seem to remember that argument being used for JP. Not Cave is older but why can't this theory apply to him as well?

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743176 is a reply to message #743173 ]
Mon, 23 September 2019 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 11:25

Adam wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 10:26

Magnum wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 08:24

Adam wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 21:35

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 14:34


That seems pretty close to opening night roster. Those five guys battling for two press box seats. Probably one of Bear or Lagesson sticks around.

Hate seeing Cave in a 3C position, even though I think he's had a good camp (good camp meaning he probably earned the 4C or 13F spot).


As someone (Jonathan Willis?) pointed out on twitter today, Cave has 8 points in 56 NHL games as a forward. That's basically the definition of a fringe player. If he's an everyday player, then the Oilers are a weak team. If he's the third line center? That's damning.


It is possible that he’s changed something and is better.


He's 24. You don't usually see guys take quantum leaps forward at that age. His best full season in the AHL was 35 points in 76 games. He was doing really well last year in the AHL before being recalled by Boston - 6-12-18 in 15 games, but the sample size is so small that it's hard to make any judgements on it. Given everything else he's done, it looks more likely that that was just a really good hot streak than that he'd suddenly developed in to a point a game player at the AHL level - especially since he failed to duplicate results at the NHL level. His production was marginal when he came up to the Bruins, and then declined further when he came to the Oilers.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that he was an extremely late bloomer and he's suddenly going to be ready to be an NHL third liner...it's just extremely unlikely.

I thought all players didn't develop on the same development curve, some taking way longer? I seem to remember that argument being used for JP. Not Cave is older but why can't this theory apply to him as well?


Yep - all curves are different, but there's a difference between talking about someone who's performed at a fairly elite level as a teenager and got rushed in to the NHL as opposed to a guy who went undrafted, signed as an overager, never excelled at the AHL level and is producing at an extremely low level as an NHLer at 24 years old.

Puljujarvi scored 250% of Cave's entire NHL output as a 19 year old who couldn't speak English. I have more time for a player of that ilk, because there's a lot better chance of further development.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743178 is a reply to message #743176 ]
Mon, 23 September 2019 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 11:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 11:25

Adam wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 10:26

Magnum wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 08:24

Adam wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 21:35

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 14:34


That seems pretty close to opening night roster. Those five guys battling for two press box seats. Probably one of Bear or Lagesson sticks around.

Hate seeing Cave in a 3C position, even though I think he's had a good camp (good camp meaning he probably earned the 4C or 13F spot).


As someone (Jonathan Willis?) pointed out on twitter today, Cave has 8 points in 56 NHL games as a forward. That's basically the definition of a fringe player. If he's an everyday player, then the Oilers are a weak team. If he's the third line center? That's damning.


It is possible that he’s changed something and is better.


He's 24. You don't usually see guys take quantum leaps forward at that age. His best full season in the AHL was 35 points in 76 games. He was doing really well last year in the AHL before being recalled by Boston - 6-12-18 in 15 games, but the sample size is so small that it's hard to make any judgements on it. Given everything else he's done, it looks more likely that that was just a really good hot streak than that he'd suddenly developed in to a point a game player at the AHL level - especially since he failed to duplicate results at the NHL level. His production was marginal when he came up to the Bruins, and then declined further when he came to the Oilers.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that he was an extremely late bloomer and he's suddenly going to be ready to be an NHL third liner...it's just extremely unlikely.

I thought all players didn't develop on the same development curve, some taking way longer? I seem to remember that argument being used for JP. Not Cave is older but why can't this theory apply to him as well?


Yep - all curves are different, but there's a difference between talking about someone who's performed at a fairly elite level as a teenager and got rushed in to the NHL as opposed to a guy who went undrafted, signed as an overager, never excelled at the AHL level and is producing at an extremely low level as an NHLer at 24 years old.

Puljujarvi scored 250% of Cave's entire NHL output as a 19 year old who couldn't speak English. I have more time for a player of that ilk, because there's a lot better chance of further development.

That's great. JP was drafted with the idea that he would be a surefire top 6, maybe top line player. What's the production for those type of players? Well over 20 goals, way over 50 pts? Cave is looking to be a solid bottom 6 guy where you get what 10+ goals 25+ pts?

I'm not expecting Cave to do it but I am just making the point that in my opinion, it's unfair to use an argument for one player because it suits your opinion at the time then not apply it to someone else.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743181 is a reply to message #743178 ]
Mon, 23 September 2019 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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Monday's Oiler lineup at Kelowna

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/main-camp-kelowna-day-2/c-30 9400600

Markus Granlund is not skating.

Lines at morning skate appear to be:

Draisaitl - McDavid - Kassian

Gagner - Nugent-Hopkins - Neal

Chiasson - Cave - P. Russell

Nygard - Haas - Jurco

Defence:

Klefbom - Persson

Nurse - Larsson

K. Russell - Benning

Lagesson - Bear

Manning - Bouchard

Goal:

Koskinen, Smith, Starrett"

Way off topic. First day of autumn and Bruce Springsteen turns 70.


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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743187 is a reply to message #743178 ]
Mon, 23 September 2019 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 11:57

Adam wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 11:46

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 11:25

Adam wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 10:26

Magnum wrote on Mon, 23 September 2019 08:24

Adam wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 21:35

mightyreasoner wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 14:34


That seems pretty close to opening night roster. Those five guys battling for two press box seats. Probably one of Bear or Lagesson sticks around.

Hate seeing Cave in a 3C position, even though I think he's had a good camp (good camp meaning he probably earned the 4C or 13F spot).


As someone (Jonathan Willis?) pointed out on twitter today, Cave has 8 points in 56 NHL games as a forward. That's basically the definition of a fringe player. If he's an everyday player, then the Oilers are a weak team. If he's the third line center? That's damning.


It is possible that he’s changed something and is better.


He's 24. You don't usually see guys take quantum leaps forward at that age. His best full season in the AHL was 35 points in 76 games. He was doing really well last year in the AHL before being recalled by Boston - 6-12-18 in 15 games, but the sample size is so small that it's hard to make any judgements on it. Given everything else he's done, it looks more likely that that was just a really good hot streak than that he'd suddenly developed in to a point a game player at the AHL level - especially since he failed to duplicate results at the NHL level. His production was marginal when he came up to the Bruins, and then declined further when he came to the Oilers.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that he was an extremely late bloomer and he's suddenly going to be ready to be an NHL third liner...it's just extremely unlikely.

I thought all players didn't develop on the same development curve, some taking way longer? I seem to remember that argument being used for JP. Not Cave is older but why can't this theory apply to him as well?


Yep - all curves are different, but there's a difference between talking about someone who's performed at a fairly elite level as a teenager and got rushed in to the NHL as opposed to a guy who went undrafted, signed as an overager, never excelled at the AHL level and is producing at an extremely low level as an NHLer at 24 years old.

Puljujarvi scored 250% of Cave's entire NHL output as a 19 year old who couldn't speak English. I have more time for a player of that ilk, because there's a lot better chance of further development.

That's great. JP was drafted with the idea that he would be a surefire top 6, maybe top line player. What's the production for those type of players? Well over 20 goals, way over 50 pts? Cave is looking to be a solid bottom 6 guy where you get what 10+ goals 25+ pts?

I'm not expecting Cave to do it but I am just making the point that in my opinion, it's unfair to use an argument for one player because it suits your opinion at the time then not apply it to someone else.


Puljujarvi's next contract in the NHL (if he gets one) is unlikely to be over $1MM/season. He's going to deliver much more on that than you can expect of Cave. Cave's current pace suggests he's maybe a 10-point a season - never mind 10 goals. He's marginal at best.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743223 is a reply to message #743187 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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Expected Oiler line up vs.Coyotes, per Reid Wilkins

https://twitter.com/ReidWilkins/status/1176534767044419584

"Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
Gagner-RNH-Neal
Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
P.Russell-Cave-Chiasson

Klefbom-Persson
Nurse-Larsson
K.Russell-Benning

Smith"

Got a feeling Bouchard is headed to Bakersfield, which is okay. He will be back.


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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743229 is a reply to message #743223 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 24 September 2019 11:06

Expected Oiler line up vs.Coyotes, per Reid Wilkins

https://twitter.com/ReidWilkins/status/1176534767044419584

"Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
Gagner-RNH-Neal
Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
P.Russell-Cave-Chiasson

Klefbom-Persson
Nurse-Larsson
K.Russell-Benning

Smith"

Got a feeling Bouchard is headed to Bakersfield, which is okay. He will be back.

Looks kind of like the potential starting line up for the season opener doesn't it? I could see Nygard and Granlund maybe being extras. Haas going down to Baker to get more games in and time to get used to the NA game.

I think they need to have a more speedier player on the left side where Gagner is. Maybe Nygard factors in there at some point. I do wonder if Benning is on a short leash as he's been brutal.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743230 is a reply to message #743229 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 September 2019 11:48

GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 24 September 2019 11:06

Expected Oiler line up vs.Coyotes, per Reid Wilkins

https://twitter.com/ReidWilkins/status/1176534767044419584

"Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
Gagner-RNH-Neal
Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
P.Russell-Cave-Chiasson

Klefbom-Persson
Nurse-Larsson
K.Russell-Benning

Smith"

Got a feeling Bouchard is headed to Bakersfield, which is okay. He will be back.

Looks kind of like the potential starting line up for the season opener doesn't it? I could see Nygard and Granlund maybe being extras. Haas going down to Baker to get more games in and time to get used to the NA game.

I think they need to have a more speedier player on the left side where Gagner is. Maybe Nygard factors in there at some point. I do wonder if Benning is on a short leash as he's been brutal.

I count 8 bottom 6 players. And virtually the same D core as last year. Can we expect a different result? No Lucic helps I guess. Maybe Sheahan is such a defensive stud that the team won’t bleed goals against?

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743231 is a reply to message #743230 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 24 September 2019 11:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 24 September 2019 11:48

GabbyDugan wrote on Tue, 24 September 2019 11:06

Expected Oiler line up vs.Coyotes, per Reid Wilkins

https://twitter.com/ReidWilkins/status/1176534767044419584

"Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
Gagner-RNH-Neal
Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
P.Russell-Cave-Chiasson

Klefbom-Persson
Nurse-Larsson
K.Russell-Benning

Smith"

Got a feeling Bouchard is headed to Bakersfield, which is okay. He will be back.

Looks kind of like the potential starting line up for the season opener doesn't it? I could see Nygard and Granlund maybe being extras. Haas going down to Baker to get more games in and time to get used to the NA game.

I think they need to have a more speedier player on the left side where Gagner is. Maybe Nygard factors in there at some point. I do wonder if Benning is on a short leash as he's been brutal.

I count 8 bottom 6 players. And virtually the same D core as last year. Can we expect a different result? No Lucic helps I guess. Maybe Sheahan is such a defensive stud that the team won’t bleed goals against?

The Oilers bottom 6 almost set a record for the least amount of goals scored in NHL history. If they could get normal bottom 6 production from the guys they play, they will be better. How much better, remains to be seen.

The hope that I am clinging too is Tippett for years had a team full of bottom 6 guys who grossly out performed year after year. I am hoping he can get some bottom 6 guys to play above their heads and then you add in the nuclear weapons that is McDavid and Leon and maybe you can do something. Those Coyotes teams didn't even have a player as good as Nuge.

[Updated on: Tue, 24 September 2019 11:59]

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743145 is a reply to message #743140 ]
Sun, 22 September 2019 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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GabbyDugan wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 12:30


Kailer Yamamoto and Logan Day are not skating.



Sounds like surgery for both these guys so while they'll still show on the roster for a while, they're not really part of the team. Both will be out for some time yet.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743150 is a reply to message #743145 ]
Mon, 23 September 2019 08:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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It's still preseason so I don't read too much into the lines or pairings but I do wonder if we could see a move with Benning. He's been brutal this preseason and based on every media guy covering, Bear, Bouchard and Lagesson have been superior all through camp. For the last few years, he's been mostly bad for a good chunk of the season and then slowly comes around and is shows decent stretches. In my opinion, the only reason he gets the benefit of the doubt here is because he's right handed. I just wonder if there is a future trade coming.

IMO if the team is ever going to get better, they need to move on from guys who sputter along, show you the odd decent stretch but ultimately are underwhelming. He's in the 3rd pair, if you can't play consistent 3rd pairing mins, that says something.

My guess on the extra dman. Get ready for it. Russell. He hasn't played yet so he needs a game but by all accounts Lagesson has looked good.

I am glad that Bouchard appears to be going down. Holland basically said he was going to be down almost no matter what. I think it's the right call. I think we will see him later this year as he will light it up in the AHL. I am of the belief that it won't be long before both Russell and Benning are gone.

[Updated on: Tue, 24 September 2019 11:53]

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743250 is a reply to message #742559 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Yikes, Oilers just let Coyotes control the zone for a minute straight and Smith lets in a Koskinen special.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743255 is a reply to message #742559 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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PRussell looks good. Krussell looks bad
Persson hurt, looks not good. Bear or Bouchard starting on the Oilers?
RNH and Drai look ready for the season. McDavid looks rusty

After the 2 goals Smith made some good saves.

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743257 is a reply to message #742559 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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I know these games don't count, but that Arizona game today was as close to a typical regular season Oilers game as you can get.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743259 is a reply to message #743257 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 24 September 2019 21:59

I know these games don't count, but that Arizona game today was as close to a typical regular season Oilers game as you can get.

If that’s truly the case, then it’s already time to talk about the upcoming offseason and potential demand for a trade by Connor.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743258 is a reply to message #742559 ]
Tue, 24 September 2019 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daftmonk is currently offline Daftmonk
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https://twitter.com/JasonGregor/status/1176713889062543360

Bouchard and Starrett assigned to AHL... Ethan Bear making strong push on RD. #Oilers

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." — Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743267 is a reply to message #743258 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I will probably get some flack for saying this because it's me saying something remotely positive about the Oilers organization but I am going to give the Oilers and Holland a little credit here. Holland came in and said:

- He wanted to increase the depth of the Oilers. Given the mess he was left by Chia, to do that given his cap problems was going to be tough but he managed to do that. Still a work in progress as they need to add a little more skill but he's filled the team with at least NHLers rather than cross your fingers career AHLers can somehow magically be NHLers.

- He said he would be patient with making any moves either trades or signings. He didn't go Chi and blow his wad on a big signing that would probably not work or make a bad trade. His patience with JP is way more than I expected.

- The big thing. He said he wanted to develop the young players properly. He said he prefers to send them down and call them up when they are truly ready. He sent Benson, Marody and Jones down fairly early because they weren't ready. I saw many a mock line up by all kinds of media and bloggers that had at least Benson and Jones as locks. He said with Bouchard especially that he was pretty much going to go down no matter what. Bouchard went down.

The first 2 points I made I see as positives but at the same time, given the Oilers cap situation, maybe he didn't sign guys because he didn't have money in the first place. For trades, when you don't have a lot of assets to give up, it's pretty hard to make trades. So I can pass those off a bit. But the handling of the young guys is a big deal to me because it's anti Oilers of the past, I don't even know how long.

The Oilers could use some skill on the wings in the top 9, even the second line. That's what Benson brings. Benson had a great AHL season last year. Benson is pretty close to being ready. So the old Oilers would have rammed him in the line up rather than let him finish off that last bit of development. The Oilers could use a 3rd line center with some skill. That's what Marody could be. He had a great AHL season last year and is close. The old Oilers would have rammed him in rather than let him potentially finish off his development. The biggest one, is Bouchard. The Oilers need a puck moving, decent skating, right shot dman that brings some offense. Exactly what Bouchard is. Bouchard by all accounts had a pretty good camp. He has a few things to finish off development but he's pretty darn close. Then Persson goes down last night with something. I thought for sure he would stay up longer. But he went down anyway which shocked me. The old Oilers would have for sure kept Bouchard up and probably kept him up for the whole camp and the old Oilers would have probably had him on the team.

There is still a ways to go but maybe some actual positive things happening which is a long time coming.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743274 is a reply to message #743267 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 08:34

I will probably get some flack for saying this because it's me saying something remotely positive about the Oilers organization but I am going to give the Oilers and Holland a little credit here. Holland came in and said:

- He wanted to increase the depth of the Oilers. Given the mess he was left by Chia, to do that given his cap problems was going to be tough but he managed to do that. Still a work in progress as they need to add a little more skill but he's filled the team with at least NHLers rather than cross your fingers career AHLers can somehow magically be NHLers.

- He said he would be patient with making any moves either trades or signings. He didn't go Chi and blow his wad on a big signing that would probably not work or make a bad trade. His patience with JP is way more than I expected.

- The big thing. He said he wanted to develop the young players properly. He said he prefers to send them down and call them up when they are truly ready. He sent Benson, Marody and Jones down fairly early because they weren't ready. I saw many a mock line up by all kinds of media and bloggers that had at least Benson and Jones as locks. He said with Bouchard especially that he was pretty much going to go down no matter what. Bouchard went down.

The first 2 points I made I see as positives but at the same time, given the Oilers cap situation, maybe he didn't sign guys because he didn't have money in the first place. For trades, when you don't have a lot of assets to give up, it's pretty hard to make trades. So I can pass those off a bit. But the handling of the young guys is a big deal to me because it's anti Oilers of the past, I don't even know how long.

The Oilers could use some skill on the wings in the top 9, even the second line. That's what Benson brings. Benson had a great AHL season last year. Benson is pretty close to being ready. So the old Oilers would have rammed him in the line up rather than let him finish off that last bit of development. The Oilers could use a 3rd line center with some skill. That's what Marody could be. He had a great AHL season last year and is close. The old Oilers would have rammed him in rather than let him potentially finish off his development. The biggest one, is Bouchard. The Oilers need a puck moving, decent skating, right shot dman that brings some offense. Exactly what Bouchard is. Bouchard by all accounts had a pretty good camp. He has a few things to finish off development but he's pretty darn close. Then Persson goes down last night with something. I thought for sure he would stay up longer. But he went down anyway which shocked me. The old Oilers would have for sure kept Bouchard up and probably kept him up for the whole camp and the old Oilers would have probably had him on the team.

There is still a ways to go but maybe some actual positive things happening which is a long time coming.

I agree he sent people down who otherwise would still be up. Beeyond that it's all too early to tell.

Neal is probably an improvement on Lucic
"Insert Player Name" is probably an improvement on Reider
Is Sheahan a less offensive but better defensively Strome?
What's a Granlund? What's an Archibald/Haas/Nygaard?

This season, barring a miracle, was likely going to be a lost cause last September. I still feel that way.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743275 is a reply to message #743274 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 09:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 08:34

I will probably get some flack for saying this because it's me saying something remotely positive about the Oilers organization but I am going to give the Oilers and Holland a little credit here. Holland came in and said:

- He wanted to increase the depth of the Oilers. Given the mess he was left by Chia, to do that given his cap problems was going to be tough but he managed to do that. Still a work in progress as they need to add a little more skill but he's filled the team with at least NHLers rather than cross your fingers career AHLers can somehow magically be NHLers.

- He said he would be patient with making any moves either trades or signings. He didn't go Chi and blow his wad on a big signing that would probably not work or make a bad trade. His patience with JP is way more than I expected.

- The big thing. He said he wanted to develop the young players properly. He said he prefers to send them down and call them up when they are truly ready. He sent Benson, Marody and Jones down fairly early because they weren't ready. I saw many a mock line up by all kinds of media and bloggers that had at least Benson and Jones as locks. He said with Bouchard especially that he was pretty much going to go down no matter what. Bouchard went down.

The first 2 points I made I see as positives but at the same time, given the Oilers cap situation, maybe he didn't sign guys because he didn't have money in the first place. For trades, when you don't have a lot of assets to give up, it's pretty hard to make trades. So I can pass those off a bit. But the handling of the young guys is a big deal to me because it's anti Oilers of the past, I don't even know how long.

The Oilers could use some skill on the wings in the top 9, even the second line. That's what Benson brings. Benson had a great AHL season last year. Benson is pretty close to being ready. So the old Oilers would have rammed him in the line up rather than let him finish off that last bit of development. The Oilers could use a 3rd line center with some skill. That's what Marody could be. He had a great AHL season last year and is close. The old Oilers would have rammed him in rather than let him potentially finish off his development. The biggest one, is Bouchard. The Oilers need a puck moving, decent skating, right shot dman that brings some offense. Exactly what Bouchard is. Bouchard by all accounts had a pretty good camp. He has a few things to finish off development but he's pretty darn close. Then Persson goes down last night with something. I thought for sure he would stay up longer. But he went down anyway which shocked me. The old Oilers would have for sure kept Bouchard up and probably kept him up for the whole camp and the old Oilers would have probably had him on the team.

There is still a ways to go but maybe some actual positive things happening which is a long time coming.

I agree he sent people down who otherwise would still be up. Beeyond that it's all too early to tell.

Neal is probably an improvement on Lucic
"Insert Player Name" is probably an improvement on Reider
Is Sheahan a less offensive but better defensively Strome?
What's a Granlund? What's an Archibald/Haas/Nygaard?

This season, barring a miracle, was likely going to be a lost cause last September. I still feel that way.

If your expectation was that in 1 offseason Holland could magically fix all the problems that Chia left, then no disrespect but I think that's a pretty ridiculous expectation.

Last year the Oilers had Rattie play 50 games who is in the KHL. They had JP who is in a league lower than the KHL. Yamamoto played 17 games and wasn't close. Currie played 21 games and isn't an NHLer. They traded for Spooner which was stupid, he's in Europe. While not world beaters, I would say that Granlund, Archibald, Sheahan will be better players than guys who currently can't play in the NHL.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 September 2019 09:13]

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743278 is a reply to message #743275 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 09:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 09:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 08:34

I will probably get some flack for saying this because it's me saying something remotely positive about the Oilers organization but I am going to give the Oilers and Holland a little credit here. Holland came in and said:

- He wanted to increase the depth of the Oilers. Given the mess he was left by Chia, to do that given his cap problems was going to be tough but he managed to do that. Still a work in progress as they need to add a little more skill but he's filled the team with at least NHLers rather than cross your fingers career AHLers can somehow magically be NHLers.

- He said he would be patient with making any moves either trades or signings. He didn't go Chi and blow his wad on a big signing that would probably not work or make a bad trade. His patience with JP is way more than I expected.

- The big thing. He said he wanted to develop the young players properly. He said he prefers to send them down and call them up when they are truly ready. He sent Benson, Marody and Jones down fairly early because they weren't ready. I saw many a mock line up by all kinds of media and bloggers that had at least Benson and Jones as locks. He said with Bouchard especially that he was pretty much going to go down no matter what. Bouchard went down.

The first 2 points I made I see as positives but at the same time, given the Oilers cap situation, maybe he didn't sign guys because he didn't have money in the first place. For trades, when you don't have a lot of assets to give up, it's pretty hard to make trades. So I can pass those off a bit. But the handling of the young guys is a big deal to me because it's anti Oilers of the past, I don't even know how long.

The Oilers could use some skill on the wings in the top 9, even the second line. That's what Benson brings. Benson had a great AHL season last year. Benson is pretty close to being ready. So the old Oilers would have rammed him in the line up rather than let him finish off that last bit of development. The Oilers could use a 3rd line center with some skill. That's what Marody could be. He had a great AHL season last year and is close. The old Oilers would have rammed him in rather than let him potentially finish off his development. The biggest one, is Bouchard. The Oilers need a puck moving, decent skating, right shot dman that brings some offense. Exactly what Bouchard is. Bouchard by all accounts had a pretty good camp. He has a few things to finish off development but he's pretty darn close. Then Persson goes down last night with something. I thought for sure he would stay up longer. But he went down anyway which shocked me. The old Oilers would have for sure kept Bouchard up and probably kept him up for the whole camp and the old Oilers would have probably had him on the team.

There is still a ways to go but maybe some actual positive things happening which is a long time coming.

I agree he sent people down who otherwise would still be up. Beeyond that it's all too early to tell.

Neal is probably an improvement on Lucic
"Insert Player Name" is probably an improvement on Reider
Is Sheahan a less offensive but better defensively Strome?
What's a Granlund? What's an Archibald/Haas/Nygaard?

This season, barring a miracle, was likely going to be a lost cause last September. I still feel that way.

If your expectation was that in 1 offseason Holland could magically fix all the problems that Chia left, then no disrespect but I think that's a pretty ridiculous expectation.

Last year the Oilers had Rattie play 50 games who is in the KHL. They had JP who is in a league lower than the KHL. Yamamoto played 17 games and wasn't close. Currie played 21 games and isn't an NHLer. They traded for Spooner which was stupid, he's in Europe. While not world beaters, I would say that Granlund, Archibald, Sheahan will be better players than guys who currently can't play in the NHL.



That wasn't my expectation. I'm saying the opposite. There was no chance at salvaging this season. That being said, Holland did more than I thought possible by getting out from under the Lucic contract. But the Chia Effect isn't solvable in one offseason.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743279 is a reply to message #743278 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 09:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 09:07

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 09:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 08:34

I will probably get some flack for saying this because it's me saying something remotely positive about the Oilers organization but I am going to give the Oilers and Holland a little credit here. Holland came in and said:

- He wanted to increase the depth of the Oilers. Given the mess he was left by Chia, to do that given his cap problems was going to be tough but he managed to do that. Still a work in progress as they need to add a little more skill but he's filled the team with at least NHLers rather than cross your fingers career AHLers can somehow magically be NHLers.

- He said he would be patient with making any moves either trades or signings. He didn't go Chi and blow his wad on a big signing that would probably not work or make a bad trade. His patience with JP is way more than I expected.

- The big thing. He said he wanted to develop the young players properly. He said he prefers to send them down and call them up when they are truly ready. He sent Benson, Marody and Jones down fairly early because they weren't ready. I saw many a mock line up by all kinds of media and bloggers that had at least Benson and Jones as locks. He said with Bouchard especially that he was pretty much going to go down no matter what. Bouchard went down.

The first 2 points I made I see as positives but at the same time, given the Oilers cap situation, maybe he didn't sign guys because he didn't have money in the first place. For trades, when you don't have a lot of assets to give up, it's pretty hard to make trades. So I can pass those off a bit. But the handling of the young guys is a big deal to me because it's anti Oilers of the past, I don't even know how long.

The Oilers could use some skill on the wings in the top 9, even the second line. That's what Benson brings. Benson had a great AHL season last year. Benson is pretty close to being ready. So the old Oilers would have rammed him in the line up rather than let him finish off that last bit of development. The Oilers could use a 3rd line center with some skill. That's what Marody could be. He had a great AHL season last year and is close. The old Oilers would have rammed him in rather than let him potentially finish off his development. The biggest one, is Bouchard. The Oilers need a puck moving, decent skating, right shot dman that brings some offense. Exactly what Bouchard is. Bouchard by all accounts had a pretty good camp. He has a few things to finish off development but he's pretty darn close. Then Persson goes down last night with something. I thought for sure he would stay up longer. But he went down anyway which shocked me. The old Oilers would have for sure kept Bouchard up and probably kept him up for the whole camp and the old Oilers would have probably had him on the team.

There is still a ways to go but maybe some actual positive things happening which is a long time coming.

I agree he sent people down who otherwise would still be up. Beeyond that it's all too early to tell.

Neal is probably an improvement on Lucic
"Insert Player Name" is probably an improvement on Reider
Is Sheahan a less offensive but better defensively Strome?
What's a Granlund? What's an Archibald/Haas/Nygaard?

This season, barring a miracle, was likely going to be a lost cause last September. I still feel that way.

If your expectation was that in 1 offseason Holland could magically fix all the problems that Chia left, then no disrespect but I think that's a pretty ridiculous expectation.

Last year the Oilers had Rattie play 50 games who is in the KHL. They had JP who is in a league lower than the KHL. Yamamoto played 17 games and wasn't close. Currie played 21 games and isn't an NHLer. They traded for Spooner which was stupid, he's in Europe. While not world beaters, I would say that Granlund, Archibald, Sheahan will be better players than guys who currently can't play in the NHL.



That wasn't my expectation. I'm saying the opposite. There was no chance at salvaging this season. That being said, Holland did more than I thought possible by getting out from under the Lucic contract. But the Chia Effect isn't solvable in one offseason.

I agree with you then. If every goes well and they get decent goaltending, then in my opinion maybe they can challenge for a playoff spot. They were technically in hunt last year with a worse team so maybe they have a chance but I would be surprised if they made it. So I expect them to be closer but as you said, given what Chia left, it wasn't possible to fix everything in 1 year.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743282 is a reply to message #743279 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue is currently offline overdue
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It's not easy to be patient anymore as an Oiler fan with all we've been through but the way I see it now is at least we have a competent manager and coach who are on the same page. The players they brought in can't be expected to be world beaters right off the top, it takes time to mold a team out of a group of what are essentially strangers, but there is more potential with this group than we've seen for a long time. The increase in team speed is noticeable even in that loss to Arizona. If it all comes together like hoped, who knows what can happen. Playoffs aren't out of the question even though it still looks a bit shaky now, and we do have an ace in the hole.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743284 is a reply to message #743282 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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overdue wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 10:32

It's not easy to be patient anymore as an Oiler fan with all we've been through but the way I see it now is at least we have a competent manager and coach who are on the same page. The players they brought in can't be expected to be world beaters right off the top, it takes time to mold a team out of a group of what are essentially strangers, but there is more potential with this group than we've seen for a long time. The increase in team speed is noticeable even in that loss to Arizona. If it all comes together like hoped, who knows what can happen. Playoffs aren't out of the question even though it still looks a bit shaky now, and we do have an ace in the hole.

One year of patience is required right now. With the cap space crunch and personnel deficiencies there was (and is) almost no chance the Oilers were going to be good this season. One year of not making the future worse means next year might be fun. It could still be awful, but right now there is some reason to be quietly optimistic about 2020-21

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743290 is a reply to message #743284 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 10:49

overdue wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 10:32

It's not easy to be patient anymore as an Oiler fan with all we've been through but the way I see it now is at least we have a competent manager and coach who are on the same page. The players they brought in can't be expected to be world beaters right off the top, it takes time to mold a team out of a group of what are essentially strangers, but there is more potential with this group than we've seen for a long time. The increase in team speed is noticeable even in that loss to Arizona. If it all comes together like hoped, who knows what can happen. Playoffs aren't out of the question even though it still looks a bit shaky now, and we do have an ace in the hole.

One year of patience is required right now. With the cap space crunch and personnel deficiencies there was (and is) almost no chance the Oilers were going to be good this season. One year of not making the future worse means next year might be fun. It could still be awful, but right now there is some reason to be quietly optimistic about 2020-21

The one thing I will say is this season may be a loss but in my opinion, it looks like things are maybe trending in the right direction finally.

The GM didn't go out and make a stupid, knee jerk trade trading once of the few big names. i.e Chia with Hall.
The GM was gifted a problem young player in JP but the GM is doing the right thing and being patient. He opened the door for a return to the player, offering a clean slate but if that isn't in the cards, he didn't just dump the player for nothing like Chia did with Yak. Maybe a year in Finland, will clear his head and JP will come back but if he doesn't, I think there is the potential the Oilers will get something for JP.
The GM didn't go out and blow his wad on a UFA and ultimately crippling the team like Chia did with Lucic. The signings he made were pretty much all 1 yr, low money deals. There is a good chance some will work out well, some won't but regardless he will go into next year not tied to a bunch of bad deals and he will have money to spend.
The GM hasn't rushed young guys. There are a bunch of guys who look like they are close but just need a little bit more development time. At most some of them will need 1 more year in the AHL, my guess is several might only need part of an AHL season to be ready. But regardless, no young players are being thrown in the deep end out of desperation. They are being allowed to develop so in all likelihood, a few of them will be truly ready to fill holes on this team next year and actually contribute.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743292 is a reply to message #743290 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 10:41


The one thing I will say is this season may be a loss but in my opinion, it looks like things are maybe trending in the right direction finally.

The GM didn't go out and make a stupid, knee jerk trade trading once of the few big names. i.e Chia with Hall.
The GM was gifted a problem young player in JP but the GM is doing the right thing and being patient. He opened the door for a return to the player, offering a clean slate but if that isn't in the cards, he didn't just dump the player for nothing like Chia did with Yak. Maybe a year in Finland, will clear his head and JP will come back but if he doesn't, I think there is the potential the Oilers will get something for JP.
The GM didn't go out and blow his wad on a UFA and ultimately crippling the team like Chia did with Lucic. The signings he made were pretty much all 1 yr, low money deals. There is a good chance some will work out well, some won't but regardless he will go into next year not tied to a bunch of bad deals and he will have money to spend.
The GM hasn't rushed young guys. There are a bunch of guys who look like they are close but just need a little bit more development time. At most some of them will need 1 more year in the AHL, my guess is several might only need part of an AHL season to be ready. But regardless, no young players are being thrown in the deep end out of desperation. They are being allowed to develop so in all likelihood, a few of them will be truly ready to fill holes on this team next year and actually contribute.


I agree with all of this, although I'm not concerned about a guy like Benson needing more time in the AHL. It is a nice change to not see the Oilers forcing 3 rookies into the line-up, but I don't know what else Benson has to prove in the AHL.

I also didn't like the Chiasson signing, at all. And I worry about what it means for Nurse. Holland's biggest knock in Detroit was that he gave too big of contracts in re-signing his own guys. I think what he does with Nurse will be Holland's first big test.

And of course he didn't help the goalie situation by signing Mike Smith, but it's really the Koskinen deal that is hurting them right now. That was such a kick in the balls by Chia on his way out.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743293 is a reply to message #743292 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743295 is a reply to message #743293 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.



Ah, good call. Out of sight, out of mind. Not a fan of the Sekera buyout either.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743299 is a reply to message #743295 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:40

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.



Ah, good call. Out of sight, out of mind. Not a fan of the Sekera buyout either.

As I mentioned in my comment to smyth. I am curious to know what the alternative was? I don't like buyouts either what if no one will trade for him, what do you do? I am totally fine with people not loving what the Oilers do but give an alternative.

How do you get rid of a guy making 5.5 mill who's not capable of being in your top 4, shoots the wrong way for what you need and no team will trade for?
How does a team ever get better if they continually play guys incapable of giving you what they need?

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743302 is a reply to message #743299 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:55

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:40

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.



Ah, good call. Out of sight, out of mind. Not a fan of the Sekera buyout either.

As I mentioned in my comment to smyth. I am curious to know what the alternative was? I don't like buyouts either what if no one will trade for him, what do you do? I am totally fine with people not loving what the Oilers do but give an alternative.

How do you get rid of a guy making 5.5 mill who's not capable of being in your top 4, shoots the wrong way for what you need and no team will trade for?
How does a team ever get better if they continually play guys incapable of giving you what they need?


First, I don't think he's as bad as you think he is, and I'm not sure it's a lock that he ends up on Dallas' 3rd pairing. Are Polak and/or Oleksiak definitely better than Sekera? I don't think that's clear at this point.

What would I have done? I would have kept him and not signed Chiasson to that deal. I also would have looked at moving Russell or Nurse or both.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743306 is a reply to message #743302 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 13:15

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:55

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:40

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.



Ah, good call. Out of sight, out of mind. Not a fan of the Sekera buyout either.

As I mentioned in my comment to smyth. I am curious to know what the alternative was? I don't like buyouts either what if no one will trade for him, what do you do? I am totally fine with people not loving what the Oilers do but give an alternative.

How do you get rid of a guy making 5.5 mill who's not capable of being in your top 4, shoots the wrong way for what you need and no team will trade for?
How does a team ever get better if they continually play guys incapable of giving you what they need?


First, I don't think he's as bad as you think he is, and I'm not sure it's a lock that he ends up on Dallas' 3rd pairing. Are Polak and/or Oleksiak definitely better than Sekera? I don't think that's clear at this point.

What would I have done? I would have kept him and not signed Chiasson to that deal. I also would have looked at moving Russell or Nurse or both.

So the Oilers already lack scoring depth so you want to let Chiasson go who had 22 goals last year. I don't for a second think Chiasson will duplicate it again but could he get low teens? Sure he could. He's done it multiple times before. What I find baffling is that last year, I don't think there was a single person that I can remember who didn't think the Rieder signing wasn't a great deal. He signed for 2 mill. Rieder was a 12-15 goal, bottom 6 forward and people thought was awesome signing. Chiasson scores 22 goals, signs for just over 2 mill and people HATE it. WHY? If it's OK for Rieder to sign for 2 mill last year to give you 12-13 goals. Why doesn't it apply to Chiasson?

Then you want to potentially trade Nurse who's a young, skates like the wind, tough, for sure top 4 dman who's one of the teams core because he's buddies with Leon and McDavid so you can keep a 33 yr old dman coming off multiple MAJOR leg injuries? So you can save a couple million. You can't be serious.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 September 2019 14:36]

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743314 is a reply to message #743306 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 13:20


So the Oilers already lack scoring depth so you want to let Chiasson go who had 22 goals last year. I don't for a second think Chiasson will duplicate it again but could he get low teens? Sure he could. He's done it multiple times before. What I find baffling is that last year, I don't think there was a single person that I can remember who didn't think the Rieder signing wasn't a great deal. He signed for 2 mill. Rieder was a 12-15 goal, bottom 6 forward and people thought was awesome signing. Chiasson scores 22 goals, signs for just over 2 mill and people HATE it. WHY? If it's OK for Rieder to sign for 2 mill last year to give you 12-13 goals. Why doesn't it apply to Chiasson?

Then you want to potentially trade Nurse who's a young, skates like the wind, tough, for sure top 4 dman who's one of the teams core because he's buddies with Leon and McDavid so you can keep a 33 yr old dman coming off multiple MAJOR leg injuries? So you can save a couple million. You can't be serious.


I don't HATE the Chiasson deal, although I have a pretty strong dislike for the 2nd year. I think he's a 4th liner that shot 18% last year, and ideally shouldn't be anywhere near the top PP unit. He's entirely replaceable for cheaper than that. The Oilers signed Archibald for $1Mx1 year and Sheahan for $900k x 1 year, (heck, they signed Chiasson the year before for $650k), it's not like there aren't guys out there at his level that aren't available for cheaper.

As for Nurse, we've had this conversation before. It's not that I don't think Nurse has value. It's that I think his perceived value is higher than his actual value. So I'm not saying they should trade him for two 2nd's, nobody would ever do that. But if they can get a good young forward on a good deal that's signed for at least 3 years, then I would do that deal. My biggest fear right now is that Nurse is going to get paid like a top-pair defenceman on a long term deal, and I don't think he's worth that.

I have less optimism about this season than most. The goaltending is a mess. So I think the Oilers best move would have been to keep Sekera as a placeholder while 1 or 2 of their defence prospects develop, and potentially trade Nurse for a good forward. And if there wasn't a suitable deal for Nurse, then I'm fine with keeping him too, provided they don't go crazy on his next contract.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 September 2019 18:10]

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743318 is a reply to message #743302 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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Goose wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 13:15

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:55

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:40

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.



Ah, good call. Out of sight, out of mind. Not a fan of the Sekera buyout either.

As I mentioned in my comment to smyth. I am curious to know what the alternative was? I don't like buyouts either what if no one will trade for him, what do you do? I am totally fine with people not loving what the Oilers do but give an alternative.

How do you get rid of a guy making 5.5 mill who's not capable of being in your top 4, shoots the wrong way for what you need and no team will trade for?
How does a team ever get better if they continually play guys incapable of giving you what they need?


First, I don't think he's as bad as you think he is, and I'm not sure it's a lock that he ends up on Dallas' 3rd pairing. Are Polak and/or Oleksiak definitely better than Sekera? I don't think that's clear at this point.

What would I have done? I would have kept him and not signed Chiasson to that deal. I also would have looked at moving Russell or Nurse or both.


Yep - all of what you said is right.

Nurse could have got a huge haul in a trade, Russell probably is tradeable because NHL GMs are inherently stupid and value the wrong things.

If he wasn't tradeable, he's still a better buyout than Sekera, and Sekera as your overpaid third pairing LD guy is better than Russell as your overpaid third pairing LD guy.

Only one of those players is capable of making a good transition pass, and it isn't the one we kept.

Mike Smith is a disaster of a contract, but it fortunately only impacts this year. The brutal thing is that there's already been at least two goalies better available at much cheaper rates off waivers than the Oilers have with that broken down old dinosaur. The Oilers need to pull some Lamoriello magic to get rid of Koskinen. Maybe the KHL will steal him back!??!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743317 is a reply to message #743299 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:55

Goose wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:40

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 11:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.



Ah, good call. Out of sight, out of mind. Not a fan of the Sekera buyout either.

As I mentioned in my comment to smyth. I am curious to know what the alternative was? I don't like buyouts either what if no one will trade for him, what do you do? I am totally fine with people not loving what the Oilers do but give an alternative.

How do you get rid of a guy making 5.5 mill who's not capable of being in your top 4, shoots the wrong way for what you need and no team will trade for?
How does a team ever get better if they continually play guys incapable of giving you what they need?


Very curious to see if Sek makes us look dumb his season. He has played one preseason game, and he was put to the test with over 24 mins of ice time. Seemed to survive it.

Still think the Sek buyout was all about trying to sign Nyquist, and we struck out. The space turned into a way to create competition in the bottom 6 instead. Don’t think it all went according to the original plan. We Oilers fans are used to hoping it can all still work out though :). And hey, at least Holland actually used the cap space instead of sitting on it all year like Chia.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 September 2019 19:47]

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743297 is a reply to message #743293 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.


Question for you. You didn't like the Sekera buyout. So what would you have done with him?

He's 33 yrs old and was making 5.5 mill. He blew out the worst ligament in his knee that you can. Came back and was lousy when he came back. To be expected. Then he follows it up and blows out his Achilles. The NHL is moving towards a speed game and skating. He was never a good skater, he relied on his smarts. So he blows out his knee 1 year, then blows out his Achilles the next year. So basically doing the absolute worst thing for your skating, not to mention he's on the wrong side of 30.

The Oilers need puck moving and skating in their defense. They need more right shots and they need a right shot for the top 4. Sekera can pass but he can't skate anymore and he's not a right shot. He played OK last year towards the end of the season in limited mins, against weak competition. So in a 3rd pairing, he could probably play. On Dallas he's going to be in their 3rd pairing. So if the Oilers kept him, where exactly would you play him? They already have Russell making 4 mill as a left shot 3rd pairing.

I agree buying out Sekera wasn't ideal but they tried to trade him for months. Apparently, they even were prepared to eat 50% of his salary to get rid of him yet not a single team would do it. WHY? Because he's only worth 1.5 mill which is what he makes. So the only alternative was to either buy him out or keep him. So would your preference been to have both Russell and Sekera in the Oilers 3rd pairing? Seriously?

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743300 is a reply to message #743297 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:51

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.


Question for you. You didn't like the Sekera buyout. So what would you have done with him?

He's 33 yrs old and was making 5.5 mill. He blew out the worst ligament in his knee that you can. Came back and was lousy when he came back. To be expected. Then he follows it up and blows out his Achilles. The NHL is moving towards a speed game and skating. He was never a good skater, he relied on his smarts. So he blows out his knee 1 year, then blows out his Achilles the next year. So basically doing the absolute worst thing for your skating, not to mention he's on the wrong side of 30.

The Oilers need puck moving and skating in their defense. They need more right shots and they need a right shot for the top 4. Sekera can pass but he can't skate anymore and he's not a right shot. He played OK last year towards the end of the season in limited mins, against weak competition. So in a 3rd pairing, he could probably play. On Dallas he's going to be in their 3rd pairing. So if the Oilers kept him, where exactly would you play him? They already have Russell making 4 mill as a left shot 3rd pairing.

I agree buying out Sekera wasn't ideal but they tried to trade him for months. Apparently, they even were prepared to eat 50% of his salary to get rid of him yet not a single team would do it. WHY? Because he's only worth 1.5 mill which is what he makes. So the only alternative was to either buy him out or keep him. So would your preference been to have both Russell and Sekera in the Oilers 3rd pairing? Seriously?

This year isn’t the question with the Sekera buyout. In or out we are at best a wildcard team. But the buyout means we’re paying him for years. Better to have kept salary and thrown in a pick. We can’t develop those anyways. And you can’t say there wasn’t a market because Toronto got rid of all the contracts they needed to offload. So teams were looking to pick up salary.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743325 is a reply to message #743297 ]
Wed, 25 September 2019 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:51

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.


Question for you. You didn't like the Sekera buyout. So what would you have done with him?

He's 33 yrs old and was making 5.5 mill. He blew out the worst ligament in his knee that you can. Came back and was lousy when he came back. To be expected. Then he follows it up and blows out his Achilles. The NHL is moving towards a speed game and skating. He was never a good skater, he relied on his smarts. So he blows out his knee 1 year, then blows out his Achilles the next year. So basically doing the absolute worst thing for your skating, not to mention he's on the wrong side of 30.

The Oilers need puck moving and skating in their defense. They need more right shots and they need a right shot for the top 4. Sekera can pass but he can't skate anymore and he's not a right shot. He played OK last year towards the end of the season in limited mins, against weak competition. So in a 3rd pairing, he could probably play. On Dallas he's going to be in their 3rd pairing. So if the Oilers kept him, where exactly would you play him? They already have Russell making 4 mill as a left shot 3rd pairing.

I agree buying out Sekera wasn't ideal but they tried to trade him for months. Apparently, they even were prepared to eat 50% of his salary to get rid of him yet not a single team would do it. WHY? Because he's only worth 1.5 mill which is what he makes. So the only alternative was to either buy him out or keep him. So would your preference been to have both Russell and Sekera in the Oilers 3rd pairing? Seriously?


I would’ve tried to move out Russell and kept Sekera too. If Sekera re-injured himself he’s likely done and would be a LTIR case. I’d be comfortable with any of the kids replacing him in the bottom pair in sheltered minutes. A healthy Sekera would bring leadership and a good first pass in the bottom pairing with potential to move up if he was playing well.

Russell is dog crap. I don’t like him as a player and never have.

Best case scenario Sek would’ve been a 12-16 dman who could move the puck and be a leader a 4/5/6 dman. Worst case scenario he sucked and we are his deal for the year. I’m also at the belief of Sekera’s play slipped so much that he was a press box popcorn eater that he would’ve went the Brodziak route and slid into retirement while collecting his full salary on LTIR.

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743332 is a reply to message #743325 ]
Thu, 26 September 2019 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 20:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:51

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.


Question for you. You didn't like the Sekera buyout. So what would you have done with him?

He's 33 yrs old and was making 5.5 mill. He blew out the worst ligament in his knee that you can. Came back and was lousy when he came back. To be expected. Then he follows it up and blows out his Achilles. The NHL is moving towards a speed game and skating. He was never a good skater, he relied on his smarts. So he blows out his knee 1 year, then blows out his Achilles the next year. So basically doing the absolute worst thing for your skating, not to mention he's on the wrong side of 30.

The Oilers need puck moving and skating in their defense. They need more right shots and they need a right shot for the top 4. Sekera can pass but he can't skate anymore and he's not a right shot. He played OK last year towards the end of the season in limited mins, against weak competition. So in a 3rd pairing, he could probably play. On Dallas he's going to be in their 3rd pairing. So if the Oilers kept him, where exactly would you play him? They already have Russell making 4 mill as a left shot 3rd pairing.

I agree buying out Sekera wasn't ideal but they tried to trade him for months. Apparently, they even were prepared to eat 50% of his salary to get rid of him yet not a single team would do it. WHY? Because he's only worth 1.5 mill which is what he makes. So the only alternative was to either buy him out or keep him. So would your preference been to have both Russell and Sekera in the Oilers 3rd pairing? Seriously?


I would’ve tried to move out Russell and kept Sekera too. If Sekera re-injured himself he’s likely done and would be a LTIR case. I’d be comfortable with any of the kids replacing him in the bottom pair in sheltered minutes. A healthy Sekera would bring leadership and a good first pass in the bottom pairing with potential to move up if he was playing well.

Russell is dog crap. I don’t like him as a player and never have.

Best case scenario Sek would’ve been a 12-16 dman who could move the puck and be a leader a 4/5/6 dman. Worst case scenario he sucked and we are his deal for the year. I’m also at the belief of Sekera’s play slipped so much that he was a press box popcorn eater that he would’ve went the Brodziak route and slid into retirement while collecting his full salary on LTIR.


You don't think they tried to make trades for some of these guys? I am not sticking up for the sins of Oilers management, there is no way I can justify some of the things the previous guys did. But I just roll my eyes when I see people post "they should have traded, this guy or that guy". Do people actually think they didn't try that? To my surprise, the GM admitted he tried to trade Sekera for months and was even willing to eat 50%. Nobody wanted him.

We can all go down the list of players we all think are crap. Russell included. We can all complain about Russell's contract and say it's too much for where he is at in his career. But if we can see what he is and realize he makes too much for what he is, do people seriously think other GM's don't see that too? We are supposed to be an educated fan base here. I want guys like Russell and Gagner and whoever else we all think aren't very good or are overpaid gone just as much as the rest of you do. But someone has to actually be willing to take these guys from the Oilers. What amazes me Is how many people don't seem to understand that.
I bet the Oilers could have traded Russell but given he has 2 years left at a 4 mill cap hit and given this year he is actually paid 4 mill in real dollars, it wasn't an easy trade to make. I bet they could have traded Russell IF they included another asset or 2. Hamstringing your team just to move a guy so we fans feel better about it would be stupid.

I just don't think the Oilers would have had a trade for a Sekera or Russell sitting in front of them where they don't have to keep a ton of salary and they don't have to give up other assets to get it done and the Oilers said... NAH, let's just buy him out. If they could have got ANYTHING that didn't require them to hurt themselves worse than having a couple mill on the cap, I am sure they would have taken it. I get the negativity many fans have for the team especially the organization but come on guys.

[Updated on: Thu, 26 September 2019 08:39]

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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743334 is a reply to message #743332 ]
Thu, 26 September 2019 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 26 September 2019 08:34

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 20:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:51

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.


Question for you. You didn't like the Sekera buyout. So what would you have done with him?

He's 33 yrs old and was making 5.5 mill. He blew out the worst ligament in his knee that you can. Came back and was lousy when he came back. To be expected. Then he follows it up and blows out his Achilles. The NHL is moving towards a speed game and skating. He was never a good skater, he relied on his smarts. So he blows out his knee 1 year, then blows out his Achilles the next year. So basically doing the absolute worst thing for your skating, not to mention he's on the wrong side of 30.

The Oilers need puck moving and skating in their defense. They need more right shots and they need a right shot for the top 4. Sekera can pass but he can't skate anymore and he's not a right shot. He played OK last year towards the end of the season in limited mins, against weak competition. So in a 3rd pairing, he could probably play. On Dallas he's going to be in their 3rd pairing. So if the Oilers kept him, where exactly would you play him? They already have Russell making 4 mill as a left shot 3rd pairing.

I agree buying out Sekera wasn't ideal but they tried to trade him for months. Apparently, they even were prepared to eat 50% of his salary to get rid of him yet not a single team would do it. WHY? Because he's only worth 1.5 mill which is what he makes. So the only alternative was to either buy him out or keep him. So would your preference been to have both Russell and Sekera in the Oilers 3rd pairing? Seriously?


I would’ve tried to move out Russell and kept Sekera too. If Sekera re-injured himself he’s likely done and would be a LTIR case. I’d be comfortable with any of the kids replacing him in the bottom pair in sheltered minutes. A healthy Sekera would bring leadership and a good first pass in the bottom pairing with potential to move up if he was playing well.

Russell is dog crap. I don’t like him as a player and never have.

Best case scenario Sek would’ve been a 12-16 dman who could move the puck and be a leader a 4/5/6 dman. Worst case scenario he sucked and we are his deal for the year. I’m also at the belief of Sekera’s play slipped so much that he was a press box popcorn eater that he would’ve went the Brodziak route and slid into retirement while collecting his full salary on LTIR.


You don't think they tried to make trades for some of these guys? I am not sticking up for the sins of Oilers management, there is no way I can justify some of the things the previous guys did. But I just roll my eyes when I see people post "they should have traded, this guy or that guy". Do people actually think they didn't try that? To my surprise, the GM admitted he tried to trade Sekera for months and was even willing to eat 50%. Nobody wanted him.

We can all go down the list of players we all think are crap. Russell included. We can all complain about Russell's contract and say it's too much for where he is at in his career. But if we can see what he is and realize he makes too much for what he is, do people seriously think other GM's don't see that too? We are supposed to be an educated fan base here. I want guys like Russell and Gagner and whoever else we all think aren't very good or are overpaid gone just as much as the rest of you do. But someone has to actually be willing to take these guys from the Oilers. What amazes me Is how many people don't seem to understand that.
I bet the Oilers could have traded Russell but given he has 2 years left at a 4 mill cap hit and given this year he is actually paid 4 mill in real dollars, it wasn't an easy trade to make. I bet they could have traded Russell IF they included another asset or 2. Hamstringing your team just to move a guy so we fans feel better about it would be stupid.

I just don't think the Oilers would have had a trade for a Sekera or Russell sitting in front of them where they don't have to keep a ton of salary and they don't have to give up other assets to get it done and the Oilers said... NAH, let's just buy him out. If they could have got ANYTHING that didn't require them to hurt themselves worse than having a couple mill on the cap, I am sure they would have taken it. I get the negativity many fans have for the team especially the organization but come on guys.


Being unable to trade an asset is just as big an indictment of management as any of the other issues.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers 2019 Training Camp Roster [message #743335 is a reply to message #743334 ]
Thu, 26 September 2019 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 26 September 2019 08:43

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 26 September 2019 08:34

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 20:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:51

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.


Question for you. You didn't like the Sekera buyout. So what would you have done with him?

He's 33 yrs old and was making 5.5 mill. He blew out the worst ligament in his knee that you can. Came back and was lousy when he came back. To be expected. Then he follows it up and blows out his Achilles. The NHL is moving towards a speed game and skating. He was never a good skater, he relied on his smarts. So he blows out his knee 1 year, then blows out his Achilles the next year. So basically doing the absolute worst thing for your skating, not to mention he's on the wrong side of 30.

The Oilers need puck moving and skating in their defense. They need more right shots and they need a right shot for the top 4. Sekera can pass but he can't skate anymore and he's not a right shot. He played OK last year towards the end of the season in limited mins, against weak competition. So in a 3rd pairing, he could probably play. On Dallas he's going to be in their 3rd pairing. So if the Oilers kept him, where exactly would you play him? They already have Russell making 4 mill as a left shot 3rd pairing.

I agree buying out Sekera wasn't ideal but they tried to trade him for months. Apparently, they even were prepared to eat 50% of his salary to get rid of him yet not a single team would do it. WHY? Because he's only worth 1.5 mill which is what he makes. So the only alternative was to either buy him out or keep him. So would your preference been to have both Russell and Sekera in the Oilers 3rd pairing? Seriously?


I would’ve tried to move out Russell and kept Sekera too. If Sekera re-injured himself he’s likely done and would be a LTIR case. I’d be comfortable with any of the kids replacing him in the bottom pair in sheltered minutes. A healthy Sekera would bring leadership and a good first pass in the bottom pairing with potential to move up if he was playing well.

Russell is dog crap. I don’t like him as a player and never have.

Best case scenario Sek would’ve been a 12-16 dman who could move the puck and be a leader a 4/5/6 dman. Worst case scenario he sucked and we are his deal for the year. I’m also at the belief of Sekera’s play slipped so much that he was a press box popcorn eater that he would’ve went the Brodziak route and slid into retirement while collecting his full salary on LTIR.


You don't think they tried to make trades for some of these guys? I am not sticking up for the sins of Oilers management, there is no way I can justify some of the things the previous guys did. But I just roll my eyes when I see people post "they should have traded, this guy or that guy". Do people actually think they didn't try that? To my surprise, the GM admitted he tried to trade Sekera for months and was even willing to eat 50%. Nobody wanted him.

We can all go down the list of players we all think are crap. Russell included. We can all complain about Russell's contract and say it's too much for where he is at in his career. But if we can see what he is and realize he makes too much for what he is, do people seriously think other GM's don't see that too? We are supposed to be an educated fan base here. I want guys like Russell and Gagner and whoever else we all think aren't very good or are overpaid gone just as much as the rest of you do. But someone has to actually be willing to take these guys from the Oilers. What amazes me Is how many people don't seem to understand that.
I bet the Oilers could have traded Russell but given he has 2 years left at a 4 mill cap hit and given this year he is actually paid 4 mill in real dollars, it wasn't an easy trade to make. I bet they could have traded Russell IF they included another asset or 2. Hamstringing your team just to move a guy so we fans feel better about it would be stupid.

I just don't think the Oilers would have had a trade for a Sekera or Russell sitting in front of them where they don't have to keep a ton of salary and they don't have to give up other assets to get it done and the Oilers said... NAH, let's just buy him out. If they could have got ANYTHING that didn't require them to hurt themselves worse than having a couple mill on the cap, I am sure they would have taken it. I get the negativity many fans have for the team especially the organization but come on guys.


Being unable to trade an asset is just as big an indictment of management as any of the other issues.

I agree. But it's not the current GM's fault. He has to deal with the hand he was left and the hand is crap. If you are left with players no one else wants including the fan base they play for, fans can't whine about the team and the organization not making it better then turn around and whine about the moves or actions they did to try and make it better.

That's what I at times find baffling about this fan base that is supposed to be knowledge. We love our team and want desperately for it to be better. So the fans complain about the team being lousy and wanting them to make it better but then they turn around and whine about what the team does to try to do that.
Here is a typical exchange amongst Oilers fans in my opinion.
"This player makes too much money and he sucks. He's not even an NHLer. He's a anchor. God management sucks. We need to get rid of this guy. As long as we have this guy, we will suck."
"Why haven't they traded this guy who I think is way overpaid, shouldn't be in the league and just loses us games yet!! Why is he still here. God our GM sucks!!"
"What do you mean no one wants this guy!! Yes he's a horrible player and overpaid but someone must want them. We have a stupid GM, so there has to be another stupid GM."
"That's all you could get for this player who I think is grossly overpaid, would never trade for myself and is the worst player in the league. Why does our GM suck so bad."
"You can't trade this guy or that guy to improve our depth. You can't buyout this untradeable guy to get some cap space."
"Our team lacks talent so we need to get better right now. This team has no tradeable extra assets. You can't trade that guy because he's good. We have no cap space right now. Why the hell hasn't the GM made any moves yet? I don't know how they will make moves but he needs to make mores RIGHT NOW!! "

[Updated on: Thu, 26 September 2019 09:04]

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CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 26 September 2019 09:02

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 26 September 2019 08:43

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 26 September 2019 08:34

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 20:32

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:51

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 25 September 2019 12:32

I think the worst decision was buying out Sekera.

If they really thought this season was a loss, then why were they in a rush to have 4 years of dead cap? So they could acquire Granlund and Sheahan? Not a lot of foresight there I don't think.

I would have rather had Sekera back this year, and take your slim chances that he can push Russell out of the top 4. Buy him out next summer if need be, and save yourself 2 years of dead cap.

Remember Benoit Pouliot? The Oilers will still be paying for that buyout until the end of next season.


Question for you. You didn't like the Sekera buyout. So what would you have done with him?

He's 33 yrs old and was making 5.5 mill. He blew out the worst ligament in his knee that you can. Came back and was lousy when he came back. To be expected. Then he follows it up and blows out his Achilles. The NHL is moving towards a speed game and skating. He was never a good skater, he relied on his smarts. So he blows out his knee 1 year, then blows out his Achilles the next year. So basically doing the absolute worst thing for your skating, not to mention he's on the wrong side of 30.

The Oilers need puck moving and skating in their defense. They need more right shots and they need a right shot for the top 4. Sekera can pass but he can't skate anymore and he's not a right shot. He played OK last year towards the end of the season in limited mins, against weak competition. So in a 3rd pairing, he could probably play. On Dallas he's going to be in their 3rd pairing. So if the Oilers kept him, where exactly would you play him? They already have Russell making 4 mill as a left shot 3rd pairing.

I agree buying out Sekera wasn't ideal but they tried to trade him for months. Apparently, they even were prepared to eat 50% of his salary to get rid of him yet not a single team would do it. WHY? Because he's only worth 1.5 mill which is what he makes. So the only alternative was to either buy him out or keep him. So would your preference been to have both Russell and Sekera in the Oilers 3rd pairing? Seriously?


I would’ve tried to move out Russell and kept Sekera too. If Sekera re-injured himself he’s likely done and would be a LTIR case. I’d be comfortable with any of the kids replacing him in the bottom pair in sheltered minutes. A healthy Sekera would bring leadership and a good first pass in the bottom pairing with potential to move up if he was playing well.

Russell is dog crap. I don’t like him as a player and never have.

Best case scenario Sek would’ve been a 12-16 dman who could move the puck and be a leader a 4/5/6 dman. Worst case scenario he sucked and we are his deal for the year. I’m also at the belief of Sekera’s play slipped so much that he was a press box popcorn eater that he would’ve went the Brodziak route and slid into retirement while collecting his full salary on LTIR.


You don't think they tried to make trades for some of these guys? I am not sticking up for the sins of Oilers management, there is no way I can justify some of the things the previous guys did. But I just roll my eyes when I see people post "they should have traded, this guy or that guy". Do people actually think they didn't try that? To my surprise, the GM admitted he tried to trade Sekera for months and was even willing to eat 50%. Nobody wanted him.

We can all go down the list of players we all think are crap. Russell included. We can all complain about Russell's contract and say it's too much for where he is at in his career. But if we can see what he is and realize he makes too much for what he is, do people seriously think other GM's don't see that too? We are supposed to be an educated fan base here. I want guys like Russell and Gagner and whoever else we all think aren't very good or are overpaid gone just as much as the rest of you do. But someone has to actually be willing to take these guys from the Oilers. What amazes me Is how many people don't seem to understand that.
I bet the Oilers could have traded Russell but given he has 2 years left at a 4 mill cap hit and given this year he is actually paid 4 mill in real dollars, it wasn't an easy trade to make. I bet they could have traded Russell IF they included another asset or 2. Hamstringing your team just to move a guy so we fans feel better about it would be stupid.

I just don't think the Oilers would have had a trade for a Sekera or Russell sitting in front of them where they don't have to keep a ton of salary and they don't have to give up other assets to get it done and the Oilers said... NAH, let's just buy him out. If they could have got ANYTHING that didn't require them to hurt themselves worse than having a couple mill on the cap, I am sure they would have taken it. I get the negativity many fans have for the team especially the organization but come on guys.


Being unable to trade an asset is just as big an indictment of management as any of the other issues.

I agree. But it's not the current GM's fault. He has to deal with the hand he was left and the hand is crap. If you are left with players no one else wants including the fan base they play for, fans can't whine about the team and the organization not making it better then turn around and whine about the moves or actions they did to try and make it better.

That's what I at times find baffling about this fan base that is supposed to be knowledge. We love our team and want desperately for it to be better. So the fans complain about the team being lousy and wanting them to make it better but then they turn around and whine about what the team does to try to do that.
Here is a typical exchange amongst Oilers fans in my opinion.
"This player makes too much money and he sucks. He's not even an NHLer. He's a anchor. God management sucks. We need to get rid of this guy. As long as we have this guy, we will suck."
"Why haven't they traded this guy who I think is way overpaid, shouldn't be in the league and just loses us games yet!! Why is he still here. God our GM sucks!!"
"What do you mean no one wants this guy!! Yes he's a horrible player and overpaid but someone must want them. We have a stupid GM, so there has to be another stupid GM."
"That's all you could get for this player who I think is grossly overpaid, would never trade for myself and is the worst player in the league. Why does our GM suck so bad."
"You can't trade this guy or that guy to improve our depth. You can't buyout this untradeable guy to get some cap space."
"Our team lacks talent so we need to get better right now. This team has no tradeable extra assets. You can't trade that guy because he's good. We have no cap space right now. Why the hell hasn't the GM made any moves yet? I don't know how they will make moves but he needs to make mores RIGHT NOW!! "

Sure but that’s every fan base. And fans are individual people so of course there are varying opinions. Did you know some people still think trading Taylor Hall was a good thing? The only thing we can all agree on is that Lucic is the worst player Calgary added to their roster this year. Including Reider, Talbot and Gryba.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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