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 Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741909]
Tue, 27 August 2019 06:30 Go to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/11662428375177420 82?s=12

“Oulu Karpat announces a one-year deal with #Oilers RFA Jesse Puljujarvi, which includes an #NHL opt-out until Dec. 1”

I honestly think this is the best case scenario now. He’s betting on himself. He’s out of sight so he’s out of the media. Put up or shut up.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741910 is a reply to message #741909 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 07:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 06:30

https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/11662428375177420 82?s=12

“Oulu Karpat announces a one-year deal with #Oilers RFA Jesse Puljujarvi, which includes an #NHL opt-out until Dec. 1”

I honestly think this is the best case scenario now. He’s betting on himself. He’s out of sight so he’s out of the media. Put up or shut up.


I hope he ups his trade value!



2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741911 is a reply to message #741910 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 07:40

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 06:30

https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/11662428375177420 82?s=12

“Oulu Karpat announces a one-year deal with #Oilers RFA Jesse Puljujarvi, which includes an #NHL opt-out until Dec. 1”

I honestly think this is the best case scenario now. He’s betting on himself. He’s out of sight so he’s out of the media. Put up or shut up.


I hope he ups his trade value!


Me too but I am a little concern. He doesn't seem to be a guy who knows what he is doing or what he needs to do. My concern is he has signed up to play in a league which from what I read this morning is in the ball park of being on par with the AHL but might not be. So if he goes over and is just OK which could easily happen, now he has 3 years of pro hockey in North America where he did nothing and another season of playing in a lesser league where he didn't stand out.

At least the distraction of JP is gone for awhile which is a good thing.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741914 is a reply to message #741910 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Magnum wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 07:40

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 06:30

https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/11662428375177420 82?s=12

“Oulu Karpat announces a one-year deal with #Oilers RFA Jesse Puljujarvi, which includes an #NHL opt-out until Dec. 1”

I honestly think this is the best case scenario now. He’s betting on himself. He’s out of sight so he’s out of the media. Put up or shut up.


I hope he ups his trade value!


Or just grows the F up, and gets some confidence back. Him playing a year there is best for everyone.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741913 is a reply to message #741909 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741915 is a reply to message #741913 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38

He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.

But but but there's a new GM and coach. Just like when Chia came... and there was a new GM and coach. Everything will change. He's probably done as an NHL player anyway, so who cares? Just another busted pick we can argue over who is to blame.

So long and thanks for all the fish.



This is fine.

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741917 is a reply to message #741913 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38

He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.


Oh Rishaug - how fast we can bite the hand that feeds us. Chiarelli fed him scoops in exchange for favourable coverage, but now that Chia's gone, Rishaug's happy to throw him under the bus. I suspect Rishaug isn't even a defender of the Hall for Larsson swap now.

Nothing really changing here other than some certainty as to where Puljujarvi starts the season. There's apparently an out clause until December 1. I really hope the kid plays well.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741918 is a reply to message #741917 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38

He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.


Oh Rishaug - how fast we can bite the hand that feeds us. Chiarelli fed him scoops in exchange for favourable coverage, but now that Chia's gone, Rishaug's happy to throw him under the bus. I suspect Rishaug isn't even a defender of the Hall for Larsson swap now.

Nothing really changing here other than some certainty as to where Puljujarvi starts the season. There's apparently an out clause until December 1. I really hope the kid plays well.


Pulju was IMO the worst case of management being a pushover with an ELC prospect. At least with Drai we had no other C options and we desperately needed him. And MacT still demoted him before the RFA year was burned. Pulju... He was just hanging around not being used at all and we just sat there and waited for the RFA year to be burned before sending him down.

Oilers management was bad for a long long time. But Chia cranked it up to 11.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741921 is a reply to message #741918 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:14

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38

He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.


Oh Rishaug - how fast we can bite the hand that feeds us. Chiarelli fed him scoops in exchange for favourable coverage, but now that Chia's gone, Rishaug's happy to throw him under the bus. I suspect Rishaug isn't even a defender of the Hall for Larsson swap now.

Nothing really changing here other than some certainty as to where Puljujarvi starts the season. There's apparently an out clause until December 1. I really hope the kid plays well.


Pulju was IMO the worst case of management being a pushover with an ELC prospect. At least with Drai we had no other C options and we desperately needed him. And MacT still demoted him before the RFA year was burned. Pulju... He was just hanging around not being used at all and we just sat there and waited for the RFA year to be burned before sending him down.

Oilers management was bad for a long long time. But Chia cranked it up to 11.

I agree with you. The Oilers in my opinion got blinded by the physical tools JP had and ignored the fact he was no where near as mature as most players his age are when they are drafted. They assumed that given his physical size he was way more ready than he actually was. Maybe physically he was close to being ready but mentally, he was very far off. On top of it, JP is extremely stubborn and delusional on where he is at. Another sign of his extreme immaturity. To make matters worse his agent is just as delusional and clearly isn't giving his client good advice. So you put that all together and you have yourself a difficult prospect to deal with. The problem was compounded by the fact that Chia bent over and did whatever the JP camp wanted. So the Oilers made the mistake of ignoring where he was at development wise assuming he would be like most other players taken that high and then they gave in the to delusional expectations of an immature kid which further stunted his development.

I still think that the upside for JP is a 3rd liner regardless if he was developed properly or not but that doesn't change the fact that big time mistakes were made with this player.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741922 is a reply to message #741918 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:14

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38

He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.


Oh Rishaug - how fast we can bite the hand that feeds us. Chiarelli fed him scoops in exchange for favourable coverage, but now that Chia's gone, Rishaug's happy to throw him under the bus. I suspect Rishaug isn't even a defender of the Hall for Larsson swap now.

Nothing really changing here other than some certainty as to where Puljujarvi starts the season. There's apparently an out clause until December 1. I really hope the kid plays well.


Pulju was IMO the worst case of management being a pushover with an ELC prospect. At least with Drai we had no other C options and we desperately needed him. And MacT still demoted him before the RFA year was burned. Pulju... He was just hanging around not being used at all and we just sat there and waited for the RFA year to be burned before sending him down.

Oilers management was bad for a long long time. But Chia cranked it up to 11.


Both years we saw the same things - the Oilers at draft time SAID the right things: "We want to let this player develop." "He probably doesn't start the year in the NHL."

But in reality they started preparing for him to make it. I think they felt it's an even better story if it seems like he forces his way on to the team.

In both cases they made way for the player. There were lots of center options available in the summer of 2014. Their eventual fix, Derek Roy, was unsigned until December. The Oilers ignored all that, meaning that Draisaitl had to beat out one of Anton Lander or Will Acton in order to make the NHL from his first camp. The team's centers out of camp were Nugent-Hopkins, Draisaitl, Arcobello, Gordon and Acton.

It was more of the same in 2016. Chiarelli said that Puljujarvi's availability in the draft helped to make Taylor Hall expendable. He didn't sign any wingers of note that summer other than college free agent Caggiula (who also made the team, showing just how weak that position was). The most notable player who Caggiula and Puljujarvi beat out for opening night roster spots was Anton Slepyshev - and despite the fact that Puljujarvi didn't have a great training camp at all, the team cleared room for him just before the season started by trading Nail Yakupov for nothing of note and allowing Kris Versteeg to sign with Calgary rather than inking the free agent tryout (who HAD had a decent training camp). I believe Versteeg even commented that the Oilers had indicated they wanted to give the kids more ice time when he was talking about why he chose to go to the Flames.

There's always this talk that maybe there was a side-deal, but side-deals aren't enforceable, and a good GM and coach aren't going to lose the player by simply doing the right thing for him. It would have meant actually communicating with the player and the agent - which is a major issue for this franchise, but that's no excuse.

If that meant he plays his 18 year old season on loan to a European team? So be it. The Oilers blindly continued on while a player floundered. Then they were inconsistent in their approach ever since. They never let him play any extended period in the AHL - always bouncing him back up to the NHL the first time he had a good game or two.

They allowed things to get so bad that we are where we are now - having wasted a fourth overall pick and blown it on a player ahead of his 21st birthday.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741924 is a reply to message #741922 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:49

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:14

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38

He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.


Oh Rishaug - how fast we can bite the hand that feeds us. Chiarelli fed him scoops in exchange for favourable coverage, but now that Chia's gone, Rishaug's happy to throw him under the bus. I suspect Rishaug isn't even a defender of the Hall for Larsson swap now.

Nothing really changing here other than some certainty as to where Puljujarvi starts the season. There's apparently an out clause until December 1. I really hope the kid plays well.


Pulju was IMO the worst case of management being a pushover with an ELC prospect. At least with Drai we had no other C options and we desperately needed him. And MacT still demoted him before the RFA year was burned. Pulju... He was just hanging around not being used at all and we just sat there and waited for the RFA year to be burned before sending him down.

Oilers management was bad for a long long time. But Chia cranked it up to 11.


Both years we saw the same things - the Oilers at draft time SAID the right things: "We want to let this player develop." "He probably doesn't start the year in the NHL."

But in reality they started preparing for him to make it. I think they felt it's an even better story if it seems like he forces his way on to the team.

In both cases they made way for the player. There were lots of center options available in the summer of 2014. Their eventual fix, Derek Roy, was unsigned until December. The Oilers ignored all that, meaning that Draisaitl had to beat out one of Anton Lander or Will Acton in order to make the NHL from his first camp. The team's centers out of camp were Nugent-Hopkins, Draisaitl, Arcobello, Gordon and Acton.

It was more of the same in 2016. Chiarelli said that Puljujarvi's availability in the draft helped to make Taylor Hall expendable. He didn't sign any wingers of note that summer other than college free agent Caggiula (who also made the team, showing just how weak that position was). The most notable player who Caggiula and Puljujarvi beat out for opening night roster spots was Anton Slepyshev - and despite the fact that Puljujarvi didn't have a great training camp at all, the team cleared room for him just before the season started by trading Nail Yakupov for nothing of note and allowing Kris Versteeg to sign with Calgary rather than inking the free agent tryout (who HAD had a decent training camp). I believe Versteeg even commented that the Oilers had indicated they wanted to give the kids more ice time when he was talking about why he chose to go to the Flames.

There's always this talk that maybe there was a side-deal, but side-deals aren't enforceable, and a good GM and coach aren't going to lose the player by simply doing the right thing for him. It would have meant actually communicating with the player and the agent - which is a major issue for this franchise, but that's no excuse.

If that meant he plays his 18 year old season on loan to a European team? So be it. The Oilers blindly continued on while a player floundered. Then they were inconsistent in their approach ever since. They never let him play any extended period in the AHL - always bouncing him back up to the NHL the first time he had a good game or two.

They allowed things to get so bad that we are where we are now - having wasted a fourth overall pick and blown it on a player ahead of his 21st birthday.


It's similar, but worse. We still have some wingers in 2016, enough to make the playoffs without Pulju really contributing anything. But we still just let McLellan bench him, and play him 10 or less mins a night until we finally wasted the RFA year.

Drai, we just kept hoping he would break out, kept giving him ice time, and when the next deadline approached, MacT did what he could to give Drai the best situation he could in the WHL while saving the RFA year.

FOr sure, handshake agreements are not enforceable, but...it's Chia. He is a generational pushover. Pulju's agent owned us for 3 years straight, ensuring Pulju was making at least 450k+ a year, and then on 2 Koskinen contracts.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741926 is a reply to message #741924 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 10:15

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:49

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:14

Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38

He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.


Oh Rishaug - how fast we can bite the hand that feeds us. Chiarelli fed him scoops in exchange for favourable coverage, but now that Chia's gone, Rishaug's happy to throw him under the bus. I suspect Rishaug isn't even a defender of the Hall for Larsson swap now.

Nothing really changing here other than some certainty as to where Puljujarvi starts the season. There's apparently an out clause until December 1. I really hope the kid plays well.


Pulju was IMO the worst case of management being a pushover with an ELC prospect. At least with Drai we had no other C options and we desperately needed him. And MacT still demoted him before the RFA year was burned. Pulju... He was just hanging around not being used at all and we just sat there and waited for the RFA year to be burned before sending him down.

Oilers management was bad for a long long time. But Chia cranked it up to 11.


Both years we saw the same things - the Oilers at draft time SAID the right things: "We want to let this player develop." "He probably doesn't start the year in the NHL."

But in reality they started preparing for him to make it. I think they felt it's an even better story if it seems like he forces his way on to the team.

In both cases they made way for the player. There were lots of center options available in the summer of 2014. Their eventual fix, Derek Roy, was unsigned until December. The Oilers ignored all that, meaning that Draisaitl had to beat out one of Anton Lander or Will Acton in order to make the NHL from his first camp. The team's centers out of camp were Nugent-Hopkins, Draisaitl, Arcobello, Gordon and Acton.

It was more of the same in 2016. Chiarelli said that Puljujarvi's availability in the draft helped to make Taylor Hall expendable. He didn't sign any wingers of note that summer other than college free agent Caggiula (who also made the team, showing just how weak that position was). The most notable player who Caggiula and Puljujarvi beat out for opening night roster spots was Anton Slepyshev - and despite the fact that Puljujarvi didn't have a great training camp at all, the team cleared room for him just before the season started by trading Nail Yakupov for nothing of note and allowing Kris Versteeg to sign with Calgary rather than inking the free agent tryout (who HAD had a decent training camp). I believe Versteeg even commented that the Oilers had indicated they wanted to give the kids more ice time when he was talking about why he chose to go to the Flames.

There's always this talk that maybe there was a side-deal, but side-deals aren't enforceable, and a good GM and coach aren't going to lose the player by simply doing the right thing for him. It would have meant actually communicating with the player and the agent - which is a major issue for this franchise, but that's no excuse.

If that meant he plays his 18 year old season on loan to a European team? So be it. The Oilers blindly continued on while a player floundered. Then they were inconsistent in their approach ever since. They never let him play any extended period in the AHL - always bouncing him back up to the NHL the first time he had a good game or two.

They allowed things to get so bad that we are where we are now - having wasted a fourth overall pick and blown it on a player ahead of his 21st birthday.


It's similar, but worse. We still have some wingers in 2016, enough to make the playoffs without Pulju really contributing anything. But we still just let McLellan bench him, and play him 10 or less mins a night until we finally wasted the RFA year.

Drai, we just kept hoping he would break out, kept giving him ice time, and when the next deadline approached, MacT did what he could to give Drai the best situation he could in the WHL while saving the RFA year.

FOr sure, handshake agreements are not enforceable, but...it's Chia. He is a generational pushover. Pulju's agent owned us for 3 years straight, ensuring Pulju was making at least 450k+ a year, and then on 2 Koskinen contracts.


Yeah, as WheatNOil says, someone asks for something, especially if it's not a money item, and Chiarelli would always just roll over.

I do think it's pretty incredible with both those situations how long it takes for the Oilers to do anything. Draisaitl was a healthy scratch 11 times before they finally demoted him. He missed out on an opportunity to star for Germany in the World Juniors, or to get 25 minutes a night in the WHL in the first half of that year - he probably would have taken home even more hardware if he had been sent down early as his play warranted.

Puljujarvi, it's more of the same. Keep him to almost exactly the same point in the season, burn off a year of his contract and a year towards UFA (which doesn't look like it'll matter much in the end!) and then finally demote him. They could have sent him to the AHL or they could have let him go back to Europe. Either of those would be better than playing sparingly on a team where he was out of place.

Ugh. Oilers.



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#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741919 is a reply to message #741917 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 08:38

He better light it up there. If he is just putting up Yak-like stats (5-6th best forward on his KHL team)...well, kid is almost done with his NHL potential.

Side note, Rishaug was just on the radio calling out Chia for giving guarantees to Pulju's camp on how limited his AHL time would be during his ELC. Sigh...that's some classic Chia.


Oh Rishaug - how fast we can bite the hand that feeds us. Chiarelli fed him scoops in exchange for favourable coverage, but now that Chia's gone, Rishaug's happy to throw him under the bus. I suspect Rishaug isn't even a defender of the Hall for Larsson swap now.

Nothing really changing here other than some certainty as to where Puljujarvi starts the season. There's apparently an out clause until December 1. I really hope the kid plays well.

At least Rishaug is back from summer hibernation. It's nice having somebody local to retweet all the breaking stories.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741920 is a reply to message #741909 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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A nice summary here:

Quote:

WheatNOil
@WheatNOil

Jesse Puljujarvi is younger than Tyler Benson.

...

Puljujarvi hasn’t knocked it out of the park in his NHL time (though given the context of who he played with, it’s not as bad as people claim).

However, only the Oilers could run a player out of town before he plays a game as a 21 year old.

...

Let’s take a stroll through Puljujarvi history.

He was drafted as a young 18 year old (May birthday). Despite this, Chiarelli was quoted as saying the Hall trade was easier to make b/c JP was drafted. They thought he’d be ready quickly. His NHLe in his draft year was 20.

...

Which means, based on his production in Finland, you’d expect ‘on average’ he’d get about 20 points in 82 games in his draft+1 year in the NHL.

He actually scored 8 in 28 games in his rookie season, which is 23 points/82 games.

So exactly what you’d expect.

...

The Oilers, I think, got caught up with JP’s size & thought he was ready. But based on his actual production, it should’ve been clear he would benefit from another year abroad. At 17, he hadn’t destroyed the Liiga yet.

Much like Broberg, he needed time.

...

Obviously some of that is hindsight but the NHLe was known at the time, as well as his later birthday. The data hasn’t changed, it has merely been born out.

...

In his rookie year, he played a total of 28 games. 10 of those games were under 10 minutes of TOI. He had only 3 games of 15 minutes or more.

He was on the roster for exactly 40 games (enough to burn a RFA year, then sent him to the AHL.)

...

One assumes that staying 40 games on the NHL roster was a negotiated contractual move. I ‘assume’ that came from JP’s party. I don’t know if JP didn’t want to come over yet & the Oilers pushed so he negotiated this in. Or if this was a negotiating tactic from the beginning.

...

Or perhaps they just asked and Chiarelli said ‘yes’, the same way he said ‘yes’ to all those NMCs and other contracts he signed. Chiarelli wasn’t much of a negotiator.

...

Regardless, Chiarelli clearly thought he was NHL ready. McLellan did not and played him as such.

One of many rifts between the GM & Coach not seeing eye-to-eye on player evaluation, leading to collateral damage.

...

In any case, he went down to Bakersfield and scored 28 points in 39 games as an 18 year old (Remember, most of the AHL is 20+ years old.)

That’s an NHLe of 27.5.

He’s improving his stock year over year.

...

Next year he starts in the AHL, scores 5 points in 10 games. Then gets called up.

That’s the entirety of his AHL time in the AHL. Throughout the remainder of the year, there’s this verbal that the ‘team’ doesn’t want to send JP down b/c there’s no centre to play with down there.

...

This 2nd year as a 19 year old is where JP gets a shot. He plays 65 games. He gets 12 goals and 20 points.

He gets 13 games with over 15 minutes and only 6 games with less than 10. He’s a middle 6 winger on a bad team.

...

His most common linemate is Milan Lucic who he spends more than 50% of his time with.

He gets some time with Connor McDavid (Lucic on the other wing) and the team does well when they’re on the ice together in shots and goals (though many do well with McDavid).

...

When he’s not playing with McDavid, he plays with Strome. They pretty much break even in shots and do outscore the opposition.

JP isn’t drowning but he’s not excelling. Yet the Oilers aren’t sending him down to the AHL (where he started).

He is 19.

...

Now we go to Year 3. JP starts on Ryan Strome’s wing. During the start of the year, they are fantastic in outshooting the opposition (57.8% CF), outchancing the opposition (55.6% scoring chances, 55.2% xGF), but can’t buy a goal.

...

He goes down to the AHL again. Scores 4 points in 4 games. In that time, Strome (the centre he was doing well with to start the year but Sh% got in the way) is traded. McLellan is fired. Hitchcock is hired.

JP is recalled again.

...

He spends most of the remainder of the year with RNH and either Lucic or Khaira as the other linemate. Nothing rhymes and things don’t go well.

Just before the trade deadline they try to send him down again. Then things get weird.

...

It seems JP at this point is frustrated. His agent indicates he’s unhappy. Turns out he also has a lingering hip issue. He gets surgical correction. Year is done. (Side note: How long has this been bothering him? Was he playing through it? Was this holding him back?)

...

Up to this point, I actually think the only time Puljujarvi hasn’t been an NHL player was the back part of this season, at least in terms of statistical events when he’s on the ice.

He hasn’t been doing ‘well’ but he hasn’t been holding anyone back until this recent run with RNH

...

His rookie year he performed basically where you’d expect him despite 3rd/4th line ice time.

His 2nd year he didn’t excel but he wasn’t holding anyone back in shots/goals.

3rd yr couldn’t buy a goal with Strome, then legit struggled w/ RNH, then got surgery.

...

Now we can extrapolate all this out and say JP isn’t going to make it. He’s not good enough. He’s whatever whatever. And maybe he won’t.

I also think a new GM & coach is a great opportunity for JP. It may be a better opportunity than whatever awaits him on a new team.

...

However, he’s made his choice and cast his die. Maybe he changes his mind, maybe he doesn’t.

Regardless, I can’t look at that timeline and think it makes good logical sense.

If JP succeeded, it would be ‘despite’ his developmental path, not because of it.

...

In life you’ve got to make hay of whatever few opportunities you get. JP didn’t, though I maintain he’s been ‘ok’ but for this last run.

If you’re an organization, you’ve got to put people in positions to succeed. Otherwise they won’t & you won’t.

And the Oilers haven’t.

...

So here we are.

Maybe Puljujarvi needs to learn some lessons. I sure as hell did when I was 21.

However, I do think his biggest sin was not being what the Oilers needed him to be before he was ready to be that.

And that’s a system issue.



The team definitely gets an F on this one. Interestingly, for all the media guys looking to put daggers in the player, only one I've seen suggesting culpability for the Oilers is Jason Gregor...

EDITED TO ADD ADDITIONAL CONTENT FROM WheatNOil

[Updated on: Tue, 27 August 2019 10:27]


"This team needs an enema!"
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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741936 is a reply to message #741920 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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Good riddance! One player does not a team make unless of course you are McDavid or Crosby. I am doubtful he is making the right choice here, turning down an NHL job even if his goal is to play for anyone but the Oilers eventually. Finland isn't the best place to showcase you're game to prospective NHL teams . North American style hockey on the smaller ice surface would have been a lot better. He's taking a step back but I'm glad the show is over and we can move on to more important issues with the team. Hopefully Holland can find good value for him in a trade eventually.


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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741925 is a reply to message #741909 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Tikkanen with his take on what happened to Pulju, complete with intangibles comment to clarify, hehe.


Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Puljujärvi never really had what it takes to make it in #Oilers. He is a very skilled player but in Edmonton you just need to have something more. Believe me, I know!!

However all the best to Jesse. He makes upcoming #Liiga season very interesting 👍👍👍

Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Edmonton is 100% hockey town where everyone expects you to give 110%. And not just game days but all the time! I loved it but I know it can be hard for many players!! Especially when you are a young kid with high expectations.




Meh, time will tell how this works out. Kid just needs to play right now and try to get his confidence back.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 August 2019 10:22]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741929 is a reply to message #741925 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 10:21

Tikkanen with his take on what happened to Pulju, complete with intangibles comment to clarify, hehe.


Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Puljujärvi never really had what it takes to make it in #Oilers. He is a very skilled player but in Edmonton you just need to have something more. Believe me, I know!!

However all the best to Jesse. He makes upcoming #Liiga season very interesting 👍👍👍

Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Edmonton is 100% hockey town where everyone expects you to give 110%. And not just game days but all the time! I loved it but I know it can be hard for many players!! Especially when you are a young kid with high expectations.




Meh, time will tell how this works out. Kid just needs to play right now and try to get his confidence back.

Tikkanen may have ties to the Oilers but he is not the first Finnish guy who have said very similar things. I have read multiple Finnish media people with zero ties to Edmonton say similar. Immature, lacks the commitment and want to succeed.

The ball is in JP's court to salvage himself but I think the fact he is willing to sign over in a lesser league in his home country rather than get a fresh start with a new GM and new coach who let it be known to JP that he was welcome back, speaks to how he is as a person and player. I am not expecting anything more than just and OK season from him. Hopefully I am wrong.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741937 is a reply to message #741929 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 11:07

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 10:21

Tikkanen with his take on what happened to Pulju, complete with intangibles comment to clarify, hehe.


Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Puljujärvi never really had what it takes to make it in #Oilers. He is a very skilled player but in Edmonton you just need to have something more. Believe me, I know!!

However all the best to Jesse. He makes upcoming #Liiga season very interesting 👍👍👍

Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Edmonton is 100% hockey town where everyone expects you to give 110%. And not just game days but all the time! I loved it but I know it can be hard for many players!! Especially when you are a young kid with high expectations.




Meh, time will tell how this works out. Kid just needs to play right now and try to get his confidence back.

Tikkanen may have ties to the Oilers but he is not the first Finnish guy who have said very similar things. I have read multiple Finnish media people with zero ties to Edmonton say similar. Immature, lacks the commitment and want to succeed.

The ball is in JP's court to salvage himself but I think the fact he is willing to sign over in a lesser league in his home country rather than get a fresh start with a new GM and new coach who let it be known to JP that he was welcome back, speaks to how he is as a person and player. I am not expecting anything more than just and OK season from him. Hopefully I am wrong.

It's true regardless of what went on before this that JP is making an odd decision. On the face of it, with a new coach and GM, it looks like it could be a fresh start for a player that struggled under the old regime. Two possible reasons are a conflict in the dressing room, or that the management changes didn't go deep enough...



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741938 is a reply to message #741937 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 14:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 11:07

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 10:21

Tikkanen with his take on what happened to Pulju, complete with intangibles comment to clarify, hehe.


Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Puljujärvi never really had what it takes to make it in #Oilers. He is a very skilled player but in Edmonton you just need to have something more. Believe me, I know!!

However all the best to Jesse. He makes upcoming #Liiga season very interesting 👍👍👍

Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Edmonton is 100% hockey town where everyone expects you to give 110%. And not just game days but all the time! I loved it but I know it can be hard for many players!! Especially when you are a young kid with high expectations.




Meh, time will tell how this works out. Kid just needs to play right now and try to get his confidence back.

Tikkanen may have ties to the Oilers but he is not the first Finnish guy who have said very similar things. I have read multiple Finnish media people with zero ties to Edmonton say similar. Immature, lacks the commitment and want to succeed.

The ball is in JP's court to salvage himself but I think the fact he is willing to sign over in a lesser league in his home country rather than get a fresh start with a new GM and new coach who let it be known to JP that he was welcome back, speaks to how he is as a person and player. I am not expecting anything more than just and OK season from him. Hopefully I am wrong.

It's true regardless of what went on before this that JP is making an odd decision. On the face of it, with a new coach and GM, it looks like it could be a fresh start for a player that struggled under the old regime. Two possible reasons are a conflict in the dressing room, or that the management changes didn't go deep enough...


There's another possibilty. It's been widely speculated that Chia and the JP camp had handshake agreements in place for NHL time and/or limited AHL time. Who knows what other deals were in place, pizza Thursdays maybe? The fact that Chia has been given the boot would also now void any and all handshake deals, meaning the player would have to be treated like everyone else and earn his spot based on merrit. Maybe teammates were aware of these agreements and weren't happy about it and resentment formed. With Chia gone, JP has no upper level support, and as a result doesn't want to deal with the fall out in the dressing room making a trade the only NHL option for him. So if Chia was still around, JP would be as well. That's my consipary theory for the day anyway.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741939 is a reply to message #741938 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


This is fine.

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741941 is a reply to message #741939 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 August 2019 16:33]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741944 is a reply to message #741941 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.

I agree completely. He's done nothing in the NHL. What I would like to know is how much is really on the Oilers and how much is on JP? I have said many times that the Oilers screwed up developing him. He needed to stay in Finland his 18 yr old year, then spend at least 1 year in the AHL, potentially 2 years in the AHL. Then maybe he could be a top 9 NHL forward. That's a big maybe.

But there was a time when he was ranked higher than Laine and they were neck and neck pretty much right to the draft. Laine stepped right into the NHL at 18, so he got zero development time. He scored 36 goals that first year and has 110 goals in 3 years. JP has 17 goals in 3 years. JP was neck and neck with Laine. How can that be? So there is no way it is all on the Oilers. So I would love to know how much is on both side. If the Oilers developed JP properly and he spent at least 2, maybe 3 years not in the NHL. Does anyone seriously think JP steps into the NHL and scores 36 goals like Laine did that first year? No way.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741945 is a reply to message #741944 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:43

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.

I agree completely. He's done nothing in the NHL. What I would like to know is how much is really on the Oilers and how much is on JP? I have said many times that the Oilers screwed up developing him. He needed to stay in Finland his 18 yr old year, then spend at least 1 year in the AHL, potentially 2 years in the AHL. Then maybe he could be a top 9 NHL forward. That's a big maybe.

But there was a time when he was ranked higher than Laine and they were neck and neck pretty much right to the draft. Laine stepped right into the NHL at 18, so he got zero development time. He scored 36 goals that first year and has 110 goals in 3 years. JP has 17 goals in 3 years. JP was neck and neck with Laine. How can that be? So there is no way it is all on the Oilers. So I would love to know how much is on both side. If the Oilers developed JP properly and he spent at least 2, maybe 3 years not in the NHL. Does anyone seriously think JP steps into the NHL and scores 36 goals like Laine did that first year? No way.

You're both confusing the issue. It doesn't necessarily matter if he's done nothing in the NHL *if* he simply needs out of Edmonton. The possibility exists, that this played out exactly as he wants, to the benefit of the player.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741950 is a reply to message #741945 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:43

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.

I agree completely. He's done nothing in the NHL. What I would like to know is how much is really on the Oilers and how much is on JP? I have said many times that the Oilers screwed up developing him. He needed to stay in Finland his 18 yr old year, then spend at least 1 year in the AHL, potentially 2 years in the AHL. Then maybe he could be a top 9 NHL forward. That's a big maybe.

But there was a time when he was ranked higher than Laine and they were neck and neck pretty much right to the draft. Laine stepped right into the NHL at 18, so he got zero development time. He scored 36 goals that first year and has 110 goals in 3 years. JP has 17 goals in 3 years. JP was neck and neck with Laine. How can that be? So there is no way it is all on the Oilers. So I would love to know how much is on both side. If the Oilers developed JP properly and he spent at least 2, maybe 3 years not in the NHL. Does anyone seriously think JP steps into the NHL and scores 36 goals like Laine did that first year? No way.

You're both confusing the issue. It doesn't necessarily matter if he's done nothing in the NHL *if* he simply needs out of Edmonton. The possibility exists, that this played out exactly as he wants, to the benefit of the player.


This was all some 4D chess by Pulju, to play bad so he at best gets a crap contract after his ELC, and looks like an entitled little baby that has accomplished nothing so far in the NHL and is worth a 3rd round pick at best so he has to play in Europe for 200-300k in his 4th pro season? It is pretty impressive if this all went according to plan.

Sigh...in the end, this all would have been so much easier if the kid was actually good at hockey. Will be a bummer if he has a mediocre season in the Fin league, but at least a step closer to not having to care about him anymore.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 August 2019 17:48]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741951 is a reply to message #741944 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:43

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.

I agree completely. He's done nothing in the NHL. What I would like to know is how much is really on the Oilers and how much is on JP? I have said many times that the Oilers screwed up developing him. He needed to stay in Finland his 18 yr old year, then spend at least 1 year in the AHL, potentially 2 years in the AHL. Then maybe he could be a top 9 NHL forward. That's a big maybe.

But there was a time when he was ranked higher than Laine and they were neck and neck pretty much right to the draft. Laine stepped right into the NHL at 18, so he got zero development time. He scored 36 goals that first year and has 110 goals in 3 years. JP has 17 goals in 3 years. JP was neck and neck with Laine. How can that be? So there is no way it is all on the Oilers. So I would love to know how much is on both side. If the Oilers developed JP properly and he spent at least 2, maybe 3 years not in the NHL. Does anyone seriously think JP steps into the NHL and scores 36 goals like Laine did that first year? No way.


You do understand that you can't put Player A and Player B beside each other and say that they were close to the same level of productiveness at 17, so they should always be the same. That isn't how it works. Not in hockey, not in anything else in life.

There's a development curve for all players - generally you'll get better as you grow and mature until you get to about 24-25, and then it'll level off and you'll eventually decline. But the steepness of that curve is different for everyone, and the peak is different for everyone. So just because at a snapshot in time two players look close to each other, it has no relevance on where they end up.

Let's look at a draft year:

Player A: OHL 42GP 31-38-69
Player B: QMJHL 59 40-45-85
Player C: OHL Injured in Draft year but in Draft-1 year - 68GP 31-52-83
Player D: Swe-1 43GP 8-9-17

Draft year+1
Player A: NHL 48GP 17-14-31 KHL 22GP 10-8-18
Player B: NHL 25GP 1-4-5 QMJHL 33GP 30-24-54
Player C: NHL 48GP 9-18-27 OHL 33GP 27-34-61
Player D: NHL 5GP 13GP 1-4-5 Swe-1 38GP 15-18-33

Draft year +2
Player A: NHL 63GP 11-13-24
Player B: NHL 18GP 2-1-3 QMJHL 23GP 15-24-39 AHL 9GP 0-4-4
Player C: NHL 65GP 13-18-31
Player D: NHL 13GP 1-4-5 AHL 47GP 15-19-34

Draft year +3
Player A: NHL 81GP 14-19-33
Player B: NHL 25GP 3-3-6 AHL 43GP 14-22-36
Player C: NHL 80GP 20-26-46
Player D: NHL 82GP 26-37-63

Now, all these players were highly rated and high picks in their draft year. Players A-C were all very closely rated at one point. Who has the best NHL career?

Right now, a few years later it's D, C, A, B with the latter two out of the league. Even after Year 2 following the draft, you wouldn't have necessarily tagged Player D to be the best of the bunch - he was even traded by his team 9 months after he was drafted.

This is of course Yakupov, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk and Forsberg. All of whom were older than Puljujarvi when drafted too...Grigorenko the only one close.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741952 is a reply to message #741951 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 18:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 17:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:43

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.

I agree completely. He's done nothing in the NHL. What I would like to know is how much is really on the Oilers and how much is on JP? I have said many times that the Oilers screwed up developing him. He needed to stay in Finland his 18 yr old year, then spend at least 1 year in the AHL, potentially 2 years in the AHL. Then maybe he could be a top 9 NHL forward. That's a big maybe.

But there was a time when he was ranked higher than Laine and they were neck and neck pretty much right to the draft. Laine stepped right into the NHL at 18, so he got zero development time. He scored 36 goals that first year and has 110 goals in 3 years. JP has 17 goals in 3 years. JP was neck and neck with Laine. How can that be? So there is no way it is all on the Oilers. So I would love to know how much is on both side. If the Oilers developed JP properly and he spent at least 2, maybe 3 years not in the NHL. Does anyone seriously think JP steps into the NHL and scores 36 goals like Laine did that first year? No way.


You do understand that you can't put Player A and Player B beside each other and say that they were close to the same level of productiveness at 17, so they should always be the same. That isn't how it works. Not in hockey, not in anything else in life.

There's a development curve for all players - generally you'll get better as you grow and mature until you get to about 24-25, and then it'll level off and you'll eventually decline. But the steepness of that curve is different for everyone, and the peak is different for everyone. So just because at a snapshot in time two players look close to each other, it has no relevance on where they end up.

Let's look at a draft year:

Player A: OHL 42GP 31-38-69
Player B: QMJHL 59 40-45-85
Player C: OHL Injured in Draft year but in Draft-1 year - 68GP 31-52-83
Player D: Swe-1 43GP 8-9-17

Draft year+1
Player A: NHL 48GP 17-14-31 KHL 22GP 10-8-18
Player B: NHL 25GP 1-4-5 QMJHL 33GP 30-24-54
Player C: NHL 48GP 9-18-27 OHL 33GP 27-34-61
Player D: NHL 5GP 13GP 1-4-5 Swe-1 38GP 15-18-33

Draft year +2
Player A: NHL 63GP 11-13-24
Player B: NHL 18GP 2-1-3 QMJHL 23GP 15-24-39 AHL 9GP 0-4-4
Player C: NHL 65GP 13-18-31
Player D: NHL 13GP 1-4-5 AHL 47GP 15-19-34

Draft year +3
Player A: NHL 81GP 14-19-33
Player B: NHL 25GP 3-3-6 AHL 43GP 14-22-36
Player C: NHL 80GP 20-26-46
Player D: NHL 82GP 26-37-63

Now, all these players were highly rated and high picks in their draft year. Players A-C were all very closely rated at one point. Who has the best NHL career?

Right now, a few years later it's D, C, A, B with the latter two out of the league. Even after Year 2 following the draft, you wouldn't have necessarily tagged Player D to be the best of the bunch - he was even traded by his team 9 months after he was drafted.

This is of course Yakupov, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk and Forsberg. All of whom were older than Puljujarvi when drafted too...Grigorenko the only one close.


This will be a telling year for Pulju, if he can get his career back on track.

I did this same exercise with Yak year after year, trying to find comparable careers. I think Teravainen is our man right now for Pulju. Naslund was the go-to for Yak, provided a nice long road to being a productive NHLer to compare to. Yak for sure was gonna be the next Naslund! Naslund is a gift that gave a lot for the sake of hopeful comparison :)

But, it was not meant to be. Yak is now the 5-6th best forward on Putin's favorite super stacked team that probably gets every call possible to please the leader. He shot 23% so got some decent unsustainable goal scoring last season (although barely over 2 shots a game, so couldn't really blow the doors off, even with the best Sh% he's ever had), but not much else was going on that was high end in the KHL. Fell back to earth a bit in playoffs. I think the Naslund comparison is officially bunk :(


We shall see how Pulju goes. I'm sure there are far more comparable careers to his current state that ended up just having mediocre to poor careers in the long run than guys that achieved their potential. Kid has a lot of ground to make up, and some big leaps to make in how competent he looks out on the ice. Although, even if he has another mediocre year, he could still compare well to Naslund icon_biggrin

[Updated on: Tue, 27 August 2019 19:07]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741959 is a reply to message #741951 ]
Wed, 28 August 2019 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 17:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:43

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.

I agree completely. He's done nothing in the NHL. What I would like to know is how much is really on the Oilers and how much is on JP? I have said many times that the Oilers screwed up developing him. He needed to stay in Finland his 18 yr old year, then spend at least 1 year in the AHL, potentially 2 years in the AHL. Then maybe he could be a top 9 NHL forward. That's a big maybe.

But there was a time when he was ranked higher than Laine and they were neck and neck pretty much right to the draft. Laine stepped right into the NHL at 18, so he got zero development time. He scored 36 goals that first year and has 110 goals in 3 years. JP has 17 goals in 3 years. JP was neck and neck with Laine. How can that be? So there is no way it is all on the Oilers. So I would love to know how much is on both side. If the Oilers developed JP properly and he spent at least 2, maybe 3 years not in the NHL. Does anyone seriously think JP steps into the NHL and scores 36 goals like Laine did that first year? No way.


You do understand that you can't put Player A and Player B beside each other and say that they were close to the same level of productiveness at 17, so they should always be the same. That isn't how it works. Not in hockey, not in anything else in life.

There's a development curve for all players - generally you'll get better as you grow and mature until you get to about 24-25, and then it'll level off and you'll eventually decline. But the steepness of that curve is different for everyone, and the peak is different for everyone. So just because at a snapshot in time two players look close to each other, it has no relevance on where they end up.

Let's look at a draft year:

Player A: OHL 42GP 31-38-69
Player B: QMJHL 59 40-45-85
Player C: OHL Injured in Draft year but in Draft-1 year - 68GP 31-52-83
Player D: Swe-1 43GP 8-9-17

Draft year+1
Player A: NHL 48GP 17-14-31 KHL 22GP 10-8-18
Player B: NHL 25GP 1-4-5 QMJHL 33GP 30-24-54
Player C: NHL 48GP 9-18-27 OHL 33GP 27-34-61
Player D: NHL 5GP 13GP 1-4-5 Swe-1 38GP 15-18-33

Draft year +2
Player A: NHL 63GP 11-13-24
Player B: NHL 18GP 2-1-3 QMJHL 23GP 15-24-39 AHL 9GP 0-4-4
Player C: NHL 65GP 13-18-31
Player D: NHL 13GP 1-4-5 AHL 47GP 15-19-34

Draft year +3
Player A: NHL 81GP 14-19-33
Player B: NHL 25GP 3-3-6 AHL 43GP 14-22-36
Player C: NHL 80GP 20-26-46
Player D: NHL 82GP 26-37-63

Now, all these players were highly rated and high picks in their draft year. Players A-C were all very closely rated at one point. Who has the best NHL career?

Right now, a few years later it's D, C, A, B with the latter two out of the league. Even after Year 2 following the draft, you wouldn't have necessarily tagged Player D to be the best of the bunch - he was even traded by his team 9 months after he was drafted.

This is of course Yakupov, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk and Forsberg. All of whom were older than Puljujarvi when drafted too...Grigorenko the only one close.

As Kr55 said, this will be a telling year for Puljujarvi. Based on everything I have heard and read, the league he is playing in is at best close to being on par with the AHL. So if he is as good as you make him out to be, then he should be one of the best players in that league and he should light it up. Most of the players he will go up against should be inferior to him so he should dominate. We shall see.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 August 2019 08:15]


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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741947 is a reply to message #741941 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.


Jarret Stoll, Matthew Lombardi, Justin Schultz, Jimmy Vesey, Riley Nash, Tobias Rieder, Adam Fox, Jack Johnson...

There's a long list of players who don't have a resume when they decide to not simply go along with what's been prescribed for them by their NHL rights holder. If you're not in the right situation, then you have certain levers you can pull to try to change that. It may or may not cost you in the long run.

The kid has decided this isn't the right situation for him, and there's definitely reasons behind that - not all of which are immediately apparent. It sucks, because it's not in the best interests of the Oilers and we're all biased on that front, but it may still work out in Puljujarvi's best interests - even if he never comes back to the NHL, if he's happier where he lands, then he may consider that a win no matter what.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741948 is a reply to message #741947 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 17:01

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:30

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 16:02

Has anyone considered the possibility that leaving Edmonton is what's best for the player? Like maybe he isn't an idiot who is getting bad advice?


He's done nothing in the NHL yet. Kinda lame to try to be picky at this point or to think he's some kind of expert on coaching/management. I don't think it's about the coaching/management though personally. He's revealed to his teammates he is an immature goof with some entitlement issues. If he came back and played well, I'm sure it would be no issue and anything before would be water under the bridge, but I wouldn't blame him for doubting he can manage that this year coming off surgery and having no confidence in his ability to play in the NHL.


Jarret Stoll, Matthew Lombardi, Justin Schultz, Jimmy Vesey, Riley Nash, Tobias Rieder, Adam Fox, Jack Johnson...

There's a long list of players who don't have a resume when they decide to not simply go along with what's been prescribed for them by their NHL rights holder. If you're not in the right situation, then you have certain levers you can pull to try to change that. It may or may not cost you in the long run.

The kid has decided this isn't the right situation for him, and there's definitely reasons behind that - not all of which are immediately apparent. It sucks, because it's not in the best interests of the Oilers and we're all biased on that front, but it may still work out in Puljujarvi's best interests - even if he never comes back to the NHL, if he's happier where he lands, then he may consider that a win no matter what.


Most of those are guys that had an actual out though. Some did it simply to be able to make more money and get an ELC richer than what their current team would offer them.

He is certainly free to hold out, but we hold his rights until he's 27 if we choose not to trade him.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741940 is a reply to message #741937 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 15:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 11:07

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 10:21

Tikkanen with his take on what happened to Pulju, complete with intangibles comment to clarify, hehe.


Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Puljujärvi never really had what it takes to make it in #Oilers. He is a very skilled player but in Edmonton you just need to have something more. Believe me, I know!!

However all the best to Jesse. He makes upcoming #Liiga season very interesting 👍👍👍

Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Edmonton is 100% hockey town where everyone expects you to give 110%. And not just game days but all the time! I loved it but I know it can be hard for many players!! Especially when you are a young kid with high expectations.




Meh, time will tell how this works out. Kid just needs to play right now and try to get his confidence back.

Tikkanen may have ties to the Oilers but he is not the first Finnish guy who have said very similar things. I have read multiple Finnish media people with zero ties to Edmonton say similar. Immature, lacks the commitment and want to succeed.

The ball is in JP's court to salvage himself but I think the fact he is willing to sign over in a lesser league in his home country rather than get a fresh start with a new GM and new coach who let it be known to JP that he was welcome back, speaks to how he is as a person and player. I am not expecting anything more than just and OK season from him. Hopefully I am wrong.

It's true regardless of what went on before this that JP is making an odd decision. On the face of it, with a new coach and GM, it looks like it could be a fresh start for a player that struggled under the old regime. Two possible reasons are a conflict in the dressing room, or that the management changes didn't go deep enough...


Could be just a perceived conflict as well. He's kind of made an arse of himself now. Would be hard to walk back into that room.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741942 is a reply to message #741940 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 15:26

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 15:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 11:07

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 August 2019 10:21

Tikkanen with his take on what happened to Pulju, complete with intangibles comment to clarify, hehe.


Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Puljujärvi never really had what it takes to make it in #Oilers. He is a very skilled player but in Edmonton you just need to have something more. Believe me, I know!!

However all the best to Jesse. He makes upcoming #Liiga season very interesting 👍👍👍

Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Edmonton is 100% hockey town where everyone expects you to give 110%. And not just game days but all the time! I loved it but I know it can be hard for many players!! Especially when you are a young kid with high expectations.




Meh, time will tell how this works out. Kid just needs to play right now and try to get his confidence back.

Tikkanen may have ties to the Oilers but he is not the first Finnish guy who have said very similar things. I have read multiple Finnish media people with zero ties to Edmonton say similar. Immature, lacks the commitment and want to succeed.

The ball is in JP's court to salvage himself but I think the fact he is willing to sign over in a lesser league in his home country rather than get a fresh start with a new GM and new coach who let it be known to JP that he was welcome back, speaks to how he is as a person and player. I am not expecting anything more than just and OK season from him. Hopefully I am wrong.

It's true regardless of what went on before this that JP is making an odd decision. On the face of it, with a new coach and GM, it looks like it could be a fresh start for a player that struggled under the old regime. Two possible reasons are a conflict in the dressing room, or that the management changes didn't go deep enough...


Could be just a perceived conflict as well. He's kind of made an arse of himself now. Would be hard to walk back into that room.


Maybe he'll end up in Boston, I bet Chara could straighten him out, or maybe he would be asking for another trade within a couple weeks.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741953 is a reply to message #741909 ]
Tue, 27 August 2019 18:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Side note. On Karpat, Pulju will get to play with former teammate Jussi Jokinen :)


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741976 is a reply to message #741953 ]
Wed, 28 August 2019 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/draisaitl-on-puljujarvi-obvious ly-he-doesn-t-feel-like-he-wants-to-play-for-us-anymore~1765 941/draisaitl-on-puljujarvi-obviously-he-doesn-t-feel-like-h e-wants-to-play-for-us-anymore~1765941

Draisaitl tosses in his two cents.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741979 is a reply to message #741976 ]
Wed, 28 August 2019 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 10:46

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/draisaitl-on-puljujarvi-obvious ly-he-doesn-t-feel-like-he-wants-to-play-for-us-anymore~1765 941/draisaitl-on-puljujarvi-obviously-he-doesn-t-feel-like-h e-wants-to-play-for-us-anymore~1765941

Draisaitl tosses in his two cents.


"no comment" on his perception of JP on the ice or his issues with the team. Not that I expected him to say anything, and I'm glad he didn't, but it's telling nonetheless.



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #742015 is a reply to message #741976 ]
Wed, 28 August 2019 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 10:46

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/draisaitl-on-puljujarvi-obvious ly-he-doesn-t-feel-like-he-wants-to-play-for-us-anymore~1765 941/draisaitl-on-puljujarvi-obviously-he-doesn-t-feel-like-h e-wants-to-play-for-us-anymore~1765941

Draisaitl tosses in his two cents.

Quote:

Kr55:

Tikkanen with his take on what happened to Pulju, complete with intangibles comment to clarify, hehe.


Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Puljujärvi never really had what it takes to make it in #Oilers. He is a very skilled player but in Edmonton you just need to have something more. Believe me, I know!!

However all the best to Jesse. He makes upcoming #Liiga season very interesting 👍👍👍

Esa Tiki Tikkanen @tikitalk10
Edmonton is 100% hockey town where everyone expects you to give 110%. And not just game days but all the time! I loved it but I know it can be hard for many players!! Especially when you are a young kid with high expectations.



Maybe Jessi was an entitled bratty millennial. Remember Connors frustrated February quote about "if somebody doesn't want to be here they can get the hell out"

Maybe he's the Finnish Ho-Sang.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 August 2019 17:42]


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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #741982 is a reply to message #741909 ]
Wed, 28 August 2019 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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When Finnish GM Jarmo Kekäläinen passed on a super hyped Finnish wonder kid, a world junior champ, that was a big tell...
I'm hoping the Oilers had a Finnish scout in the interview process, if not I hope they've learned ... (horse gone .. barn door closed). Despite all the discussion about a lack of a development plan, basically Pulju hasn't displayed an elite level at anything, which you should have seen at some point by now, I'm afraid he's looking more like what you see, is what he is.

Two busted top picks (Yak & Pulju) have really burned this franchise... although on a + note... you could argue Yak kind of helped us get McD!! .. yeah Yak!! Wave Towel



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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #742003 is a reply to message #741982 ]
Wed, 28 August 2019 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 12:31

When Finnish GM Jarmo Kekäläinen passed on a super hyped Finnish wonder kid, a world junior champ, that was a big tell...
I'm hoping the Oilers had a Finnish scout in the interview process, if not I hope they've learned ... (horse gone .. barn door closed). Despite all the discussion about a lack of a development plan, basically Pulju hasn't displayed an elite level at anything, which you should have seen at some point by now, I'm afraid he's looking more like what you see, is what he is.

Two busted top picks (Yak & Pulju) have really burned this franchise... although on a + note... you could argue Yak kind of helped us get McD!! .. yeah Yak!! Wave Towel


I wouldn't give Yakupov a lot of credit for McDavid. That's on MacTavish and Eakins. Yakupov was just one small piece of the puzzle. The defence and goalies weren't good, we had some injuries, we entered the season with the weakest lineup of centers possible...

Holland said, rightly, yesterday that anyone in the league would have taken Puljujarvi top 5 that year. He was a top pick, and the Oilers didn't make a big mistake drafting him, but the development path they chose was very flawed and we are now where we are.

Even with those two picks failing to live up to their billing - Yakupov and Puljujarvi - if not for the management, we could be a top end team. We had 3 other first overall picks, plus another #3 and a #7 and a #8 and a #10 in the last 10 years. If you can't build with that kind of draft advantage, then you're not doing it right.




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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #742019 is a reply to message #742003 ]
Wed, 28 August 2019 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 16:24

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 12:31

When Finnish GM Jarmo Kekäläinen passed on a super hyped Finnish wonder kid, a world junior champ, that was a big tell...
I'm hoping the Oilers had a Finnish scout in the interview process, if not I hope they've learned ... (horse gone .. barn door closed). Despite all the discussion about a lack of a development plan, basically Pulju hasn't displayed an elite level at anything, which you should have seen at some point by now, I'm afraid he's looking more like what you see, is what he is.

Two busted top picks (Yak & Pulju) have really burned this franchise... although on a + note... you could argue Yak kind of helped us get McD!! .. yeah Yak!! Wave Towel


I wouldn't give Yakupov a lot of credit for McDavid. That's on MacTavish and Eakins. Yakupov was just one small piece of the puzzle. The defence and goalies weren't good, we had some injuries, we entered the season with the weakest lineup of centers possible...

Holland said, rightly, yesterday that anyone in the league would have taken Puljujarvi top 5 that year. He was a top pick, and the Oilers didn't make a big mistake drafting him, but the development path they chose was very flawed and we are now where we are.

Even with those two picks failing to live up to their billing - Yakupov and Puljujarvi - if not for the management, we could be a top end team. We had 3 other first overall picks, plus another #3 and a #7 and a #8 and a #10 in the last 10 years. If you can't build with that kind of draft advantage, then you're not doing it right.




It's clear the scouting on Pulju was poor at this point. People fell in love with his physical attributes and how he was able to dominate other kids with his huge frame and speed. The hockey sense was never quite there though and people looked past it. Watch his old highlights from the WJHC. He looks like he did in the NHL, almost exactly. Lots of speed, somewhat clumsy skating, choppy stick handling, and he's constantly forcing plays. It worked for him against kids, it hasn't at all in the NHL. His shot was never very accurate either.

It's a bummer. And we fell far too in love with the physical attributes like everyone else did. Pulju should probably be going into his 2nd ELC year next season if we properly brought him along based on where his actual smarts with the puck were at in his draft year with a top end still likely in the middle 6, but pretty clear he's not a top end talent. A guy actually worthy of the hype Pulju got would be able to figure out how to contribute in the NHL without needing to be babied by coaches. If you're good, you're good, and you force coaches to use you if they want to keep their job. He's not even close to the first guy that was able to trick scouts by being able to dominate other kids with physical attributes, but wasn't able to figure out how to make the head and hands work quickly enough in the NHL against skilled defenders. There are unfortunately a lot of parallels to Yak here.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 August 2019 19:20]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #742046 is a reply to message #742019 ]
Thu, 29 August 2019 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 16:24

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 12:31

When Finnish GM Jarmo Kekäläinen passed on a super hyped Finnish wonder kid, a world junior champ, that was a big tell...
I'm hoping the Oilers had a Finnish scout in the interview process, if not I hope they've learned ... (horse gone .. barn door closed). Despite all the discussion about a lack of a development plan, basically Pulju hasn't displayed an elite level at anything, which you should have seen at some point by now, I'm afraid he's looking more like what you see, is what he is.

Two busted top picks (Yak & Pulju) have really burned this franchise... although on a + note... you could argue Yak kind of helped us get McD!! .. yeah Yak!! Wave Towel


I wouldn't give Yakupov a lot of credit for McDavid. That's on MacTavish and Eakins. Yakupov was just one small piece of the puzzle. The defence and goalies weren't good, we had some injuries, we entered the season with the weakest lineup of centers possible...

Holland said, rightly, yesterday that anyone in the league would have taken Puljujarvi top 5 that year. He was a top pick, and the Oilers didn't make a big mistake drafting him, but the development path they chose was very flawed and we are now where we are.

Even with those two picks failing to live up to their billing - Yakupov and Puljujarvi - if not for the management, we could be a top end team. We had 3 other first overall picks, plus another #3 and a #7 and a #8 and a #10 in the last 10 years. If you can't build with that kind of draft advantage, then you're not doing it right.




It's clear the scouting on Pulju was poor at this point. People fell in love with his physical attributes and how he was able to dominate other kids with his huge frame and speed. The hockey sense was never quite there though and people looked past it. Watch his old highlights from the WJHC. He looks like he did in the NHL, almost exactly. Lots of speed, somewhat clumsy skating, choppy stick handling, and he's constantly forcing plays. It worked for him against kids, it hasn't at all in the NHL. His shot was never very accurate either.

It's a bummer. And we fell far too in love with the physical attributes like everyone else did. Pulju should probably be going into his 2nd ELC year next season if we properly brought him along based on where his actual smarts with the puck were at in his draft year with a top end still likely in the middle 6, but pretty clear he's not a top end talent. A guy actually worthy of the hype Pulju got would be able to figure out how to contribute in the NHL without needing to be babied by coaches. If you're good, you're good, and you force coaches to use you if they want to keep their job. He's not even close to the first guy that was able to trick scouts by being able to dominate other kids with physical attributes, but wasn't able to figure out how to make the head and hands work quickly enough in the NHL against skilled defenders. There are unfortunately a lot of parallels to Yak here.


Watch anyone in the World Juniors - they're all a little sloppy. He was a 17 year old playing in a 20-year old tournament. I've never really liked watching the Oil Kings, because I find it's all so sloppy all the time. You have guys throwing themselves way out of position to make hits. You have guys making bad decisions all over the ice.

Junior players, even the very best ones, are unfinished products. These guys get scouted constantly at the top of the draft, and I don't really believe that the rankings are a mistake - just the development does or doesn't happen from there.

Here's Jason Gregor on the Oilers idiotic development path with not just Puljujarvi but many key prospects:

https://oilersnation.com/2019/08/28/jesse-puljujarvi-what-we nt-wrong-with-edmonton-oilers/

Here's the thing with Puljujarvi. He's younger than Tyler Benson, who people are talking about as a good prospect. The Oilers push for their first round picks burns them out in people's eyes here. They make decisions about the players while they're still teenagers, and then they die on that.

Honestly, I can't blame anyone for not wanting to play here.

Oh, and the Leon thing, I don't know what people were expecting him to say. He said that they'll move on without him if he doesn't want to be here, and that they'll welcome him back if he returns. That whole interview has been a little over-analyzed, with some Hockey News guy suggesting that he's basically depressed about the Oilers chances...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Puljujarvi signs in Finland [message #742048 is a reply to message #742019 ]
Thu, 29 August 2019 08:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 4462
Registered: January 2016

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 18:40

Adam wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 16:24

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 28 August 2019 12:31

When Finnish GM Jarmo Kekäläinen passed on a super hyped Finnish wonder kid, a world junior champ, that was a big tell...
I'm hoping the Oilers had a Finnish scout in the interview process, if not I hope they've learned ... (horse gone .. barn door closed). Despite all the discussion about a lack of a development plan, basically Pulju hasn't displayed an elite level at anything, which you should have seen at some point by now, I'm afraid he's looking more like what you see, is what he is.

Two busted top picks (Yak & Pulju) have really burned this franchise... although on a + note... you could argue Yak kind of helped us get McD!! .. yeah Yak!! Wave Towel


I wouldn't give Yakupov a lot of credit for McDavid. That's on MacTavish and Eakins. Yakupov was just one small piece of the puzzle. The defence and goalies weren't good, we had some injuries, we entered the season with the weakest lineup of centers possible...

Holland said, rightly, yesterday that anyone in the league would have taken Puljujarvi top 5 that year. He was a top pick, and the Oilers didn't make a big mistake drafting him, but the development path they chose was very flawed and we are now where we are.

Even with those two picks failing to live up to their billing - Yakupov and Puljujarvi - if not for the management, we could be a top end team. We had 3 other first overall picks, plus another #3 and a #7 and a #8 and a #10 in the last 10 years. If you can't build with that kind of draft advantage, then you're not doing it right.




It's clear the scouting on Pulju was poor at this point. People fell in love with his physical attributes and how he was able to dominate other kids with his huge frame and speed. The hockey sense was never quite there though and people looked past it. Watch his old highlights from the WJHC. He looks like he did in the NHL, almost exactly. Lots of speed, somewhat clumsy skating, choppy stick handling, and he's constantly forcing plays. It worked for him against kids, it hasn't at all in the NHL. His shot was never very accurate either.

It's a bummer. And we fell far too in love with the physical attributes like everyone else did. Pulju should probably be going into his 2nd ELC year next season if we properly brought him along based on where his actual smarts with the puck were at in his draft year with a top end still likely in the middle 6, but pretty clear he's not a top end talent. A guy actually worthy of the hype Pulju got would be able to figure out how to contribute in the NHL without needing to be babied by coaches. If you're good, you're good, and you force coaches to use you if they want to keep their job. He's not even close to the first guy that was able to trick scouts by being able to dominate other kids with physical attributes, but wasn't able to figure out how to make the head and hands work quickly enough in the NHL against skilled defenders. There are unfortunately a lot of parallels to Yak here.

JP was bigger than a lot of the juniors he played against and he was the 3rd guy on a stacked Finnish junior line. He had a 80+ point center in Aho and a 35+ goal sniper on his line. Does he have talent, sure he does. You have to have some talent to play with those types of players. But do I think he was propped up a bit by having 2 NHL stars on his line? Hell yes. Kassian last year looked like he could be a top 6 player when he was on a line with the best player in the world in McDavid and a 50 goal, 100 pt player in Leon who's also elite. Do I think Kassian is a top 6 player if he wasn't with McDavid and Leon? Hell no.

JP has talent but it was raw. Teams got dazzled by the physical tools but in reality, he shouldn't have been taken that high given just how much development time he needs.



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