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 Oilers » Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offerPages (4): [ «  <  1  2  3  4  >  »]
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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737109 is a reply to message #737107 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:10

DO we get a high profile firing in the next 6 months? Or at least banishment from hockey ops? Or will we go into next season with every notable name still around?

Yeah, unless heads start to roll the second Ken rolls into town, I'm remaining very skeptical of his ability to change anything for the better in this tire fire.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737175 is a reply to message #737109 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:16

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:10

DO we get a high profile firing in the next 6 months? Or at least banishment from hockey ops? Or will we go into next season with every notable name still around?

Yeah, unless heads start to roll the second Ken rolls into town, I'm remaining very skeptical of his ability to change anything for the better in this tire fire.


You can bet a guy like Holland will take his time evaluating what is already in place in the org before pulling the trigger on letting people go and replacing them. He knows what he likes and doesn't like and there will be interviews within the organization to determine who stays. If he decides someone like KG is a good fit and has what it takes, I'd have no problem with him staying on as an assistant or some other role with the club. You know the untouchables will still be there as long as Katz owns the team but I don't see him making moves that will outright hurt the team like PC did as a result of listening to their suggestions. Peter was a bit off his rocker, let's face it. There was good work done on the amateur and minor league side of things which shouldn't go unnoticed. I look forward to seeing what he can do with the team.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737179 is a reply to message #737175 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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overdue wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 18:41

Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:16

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:10

DO we get a high profile firing in the next 6 months? Or at least banishment from hockey ops? Or will we go into next season with every notable name still around?

Yeah, unless heads start to roll the second Ken rolls into town, I'm remaining very skeptical of his ability to change anything for the better in this tire fire.


You can bet a guy like Holland will take his time evaluating what is already in place in the org before pulling the trigger on letting people go and replacing them. He knows what he likes and doesn't like and there will be interviews within the organization to determine who stays. If he decides someone like KG is a good fit and has what it takes, I'd have no problem with him staying on as an assistant or some other role with the club. You know the untouchables will still be there as long as Katz owns the team but I don't see him making moves that will outright hurt the team like PC did as a result of listening to their suggestions. Peter was a bit off his rocker, let's face it. There was good work done on the amateur and minor league side of things which shouldn't go unnoticed. I look forward to seeing what he can do with the team.



Oh good. An evaluation period. Love those.



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2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737112 is a reply to message #737107 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 10:10

DO we get a high profile firing in the next 6 months? Or at least banishment from hockey ops? Or will we go into next season with every notable name still around?


The Oilers have been telegraphing Sutter's removal for a while now. He was almost the only one that Chiarelli was willing to go to for advice near the end! Someone has to pay for all that failure...and it proves the autonomy thing if he's allowed to fire someone, so expect Duane to walk the plank.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737673 is a reply to message #737107 ]
Thu, 16 May 2019 07:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Who does Holland Remove First (within 6 months)?[ 32 vote(s) ]

1. MacT 4 / 13%
2. Howson 8 / 25%
3. Kretzky 0 / 0%
4. Paul Messier 0 / 0%
5. Mark Messier 0 / 0%
6. Duane Sutter 13 / 41%
7. Coffey 0 / 0%
8. Bob Green 0 / 0%
9. David Pelletier 0 / 0%
10. Nobody 7 / 22%



Congrats to the 13%!

I know the gang will insist that MacT was NOT fired. BUt, come on, who would give up the sweet situation with the OBC and the red wine if they weren't feeling pushed out.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737676 is a reply to message #737673 ]
Thu, 16 May 2019 07:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mullet  is currently offline Mullet
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 May 2019 07:26

Who does Holland Remove First (within 6 months)?[ 32 vote(s) ]

1. MacT 4 / 13%
2. Howson 8 / 25%
3. Kretzky 0 / 0%
4. Paul Messier 0 / 0%
5. Mark Messier 0 / 0%
6. Duane Sutter 13 / 41%
7. Coffey 0 / 0%
8. Bob Green 0 / 0%
9. David Pelletier 0 / 0%
10. Nobody 7 / 22%



Congrats to the 13%!

I know the gang will insist that MacT was NOT fired. BUt, come on, who would give up the sweet situation with the OBC and the red wine if they weren't feeling pushed out.


Next up Howson. Each regime forces one guy - last time it was Mact on Chia this tim Kretzky on Holland.



WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher, smarter, faster and better looking than most people.

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737725 is a reply to message #737673 ]
Thu, 16 May 2019 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 May 2019 07:26

Who does Holland Remove First (within 6 months)?[ 32 vote(s) ]

1. MacT 4 / 13%
2. Howson 8 / 25%
3. Kretzky 0 / 0%
4. Paul Messier 0 / 0%
5. Mark Messier 0 / 0%
6. Duane Sutter 13 / 41%
7. Coffey 0 / 0%
8. Bob Green 0 / 0%
9. David Pelletier 0 / 0%
10. Nobody 7 / 22%



Congrats to the 13%!

I know the gang will insist that MacT was NOT fired. BUt, come on, who would give up the sweet situation with the OBC and the red wine if they weren't feeling pushed out.


Hey, it ain't often that a Russian team comes calling offering you the opportunity to work in Yaroslavl. Who would turn that down?



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks and...SIGH...#FireTheGretzkys

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737776 is a reply to message #737725 ]
Sat, 18 May 2019 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Adam wrote on Thu, 16 May 2019 13:01

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 May 2019 07:26

Who does Holland Remove First (within 6 months)?[ 32 vote(s) ]

1. MacT 4 / 13%
2. Howson 8 / 25%
3. Kretzky 0 / 0%
4. Paul Messier 0 / 0%
5. Mark Messier 0 / 0%
6. Duane Sutter 13 / 41%
7. Coffey 0 / 0%
8. Bob Green 0 / 0%
9. David Pelletier 0 / 0%
10. Nobody 7 / 22%



Congrats to the 13%!

I know the gang will insist that MacT was NOT fired. BUt, come on, who would give up the sweet situation with the OBC and the red wine if they weren't feeling pushed out.


Hey, it ain't often that a Russian team comes calling offering you the opportunity to work in Yaroslavl. Who would turn that down?


Depends on how many zeroes, what currency the zeros are in, and how many winters I'd have to survive.

I took a Google street view tour of Yaroslavl and it actually looks like a decent place. Like a mix of a European small city and Edmonton in the 80s.... maybe why Craig went their to begin with.

[Updated on: Sat, 18 May 2019 01:04]


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737115 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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I have a few flags on the play on bringing Holland in.

1. He wasn't interviewed
2. Uses gut analytics*
3. Detroit hasn't been competitive since 2016 and are cap strapped
4. Nicholson's OBC in hockey Canada.

*
Jeff Merek Twitter @JeffMerek

"The analytics we use are gut analytics" - Wings GM Ken Holland on #MvsW moments ago


Ken Holland (still with Detroit) sounds like he's going to miss being a GM so it wasn't too far of a stretch, and listen to the interview it sounds like he wasn't going willingly.. and for tin foil hatters out there, the youtube link actually has yeg in the title so him coming to Edmonton was foretold.


I'm not certain Holland can get us out of what ails the team. I don't think the Oilers OBC will be let go and the toxicity of the management culture will still be high.

In the end the entire NHL is an OBC - a fraternity if you will. If you played at a high level or were associated with players at a high level, you were in. I don't think anyone in hockey today worked their way up through the ranks to be who they are and if they have they probably struggled mightily to get any deals or guys to take them seriously until they have been at that level for some time.

I don't know who I'd like in place of Holland, truth is I don't know of their background to give an informed opinion but I just want the toxic environment of the Oilers to end and the team to return to a blue collar work ethic and put out an honest effort night in and night out. If you don't.. you're gone.

It's not MOGA, it's just work and a honest day of it.




The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737153 is a reply to message #737115 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC  is currently offline welcometotheOC
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I know he's not popular around here... but with all due respect, Ken Hitchcock would be the definition of someone who started at the bottom and worked his way up (obviously not with the Oilers because he is near the end of his career, but his whole career post-United Cycle - even during his United Cycle days - has been about working and earning his way up the ladder).


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737155 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24  is currently offline K.McC#24
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I didn't hear much in terms of objection when the last GM was hired, and we know how that turned out.

Here's a guy who's had some success, albeit under different circumstances and era. Let's face it though, every GM will experience different circumstances under a different organization.

I'm neutral. I'll pass judgement after a couple seasons. I don't really give a s**t what a guy did prior to joining this organization, other than having relevant experience, when it comes down it. I just want him to do a good job for THIS organization, and avoid the litany of gaffes that marked the PChiarelli era. I think you put a monkey in the GM chair this last season and have him throw darts at choices PC was faced with before he made his decisions, and the overall outcomes are better than Peter's. I think Ken Holland has a decent chance if he can cut Chiarelli's failure rate in half....and I think that's pretty much a default.

We can pine away for the whole front office of OBC to be run out of there, but for me, at least, the realization is that those guys aren't going to go anywhere. Sure there's no good reason for them to be there, but I'm no longer going to waste an iota of personal aggravation or a millisecond of time typing an opinion that they should be, or reading anyone's rants to that effect....while respecting that ranting is therapeutic, and adding the caveat that I may have to go there myself at some point.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737169 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Jm Matheson @NHLbyMatty
Holland told friends around the NHL he was blown away by the Oilers offer (reportedly 5 years, $5 mil per), plus his friends all knew he still had the fire to be a GM. Not ready to put his feet up at 63...


So, this kinda went like a Chia negotiation? We just go all in with an offer the other guy never could have imagined. Then, I guess hope he feels bad and asks for less? Thank goodness there is no management salary cap :)



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737170 is a reply to message #737169 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 15:59

Jm Matheson @NHLbyMatty
Holland told friends around the NHL he was blown away by the Oilers offer (reportedly 5 years, $5 mil per), plus his friends all knew he still had the fire to be a GM. Not ready to put his feet up at 63...


So, this kinda went like a Chia negotiation? We just go all in with an offer the other guy never could have imagined. Then, I guess hope he feels bad and asks for less? Thank goodness there is no management salary cap :)


.... yet.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737171 is a reply to message #737169 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 15:59

Jm Matheson @NHLbyMatty
Holland told friends around the NHL he was blown away by the Oilers offer (reportedly 5 years, $5 mil per), plus his friends all knew he still had the fire to be a GM. Not ready to put his feet up at 63...


So, this kinda went like a Chia negotiation? We just go all in with an offer the other guy never could have imagined. Then, I guess hope he feels bad and asks for less? Thank goodness there is no management salary cap :)


I actually don't have a problem with the Oilers spending more on their front office. In a cap world, and as one of the highest revenue teams in the league (although less so now with a low Canadian dollar), the Oilers should have an advantage over less wealthy teams. The caveat of course being that the Oilers actually use their money to hire the best possible people and not just old Hockey Canada buddies.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19 pace: 234 GF / 274 GA (-40)

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737172 is a reply to message #737171 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 17:25

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 15:59

Jm Matheson @NHLbyMatty
Holland told friends around the NHL he was blown away by the Oilers offer (reportedly 5 years, $5 mil per), plus his friends all knew he still had the fire to be a GM. Not ready to put his feet up at 63...


So, this kinda went like a Chia negotiation? We just go all in with an offer the other guy never could have imagined. Then, I guess hope he feels bad and asks for less? Thank goodness there is no management salary cap :)


I actually don't have a problem with the Oilers spending more on their front office. In a cap world, and as one of the highest revenue teams in the league (although less so now with a low Canadian dollar), the Oilers should have an advantage over less wealthy teams. The caveat of course being that the Oilers actually use their money to hire the best possible people and not just old Hockey Canada buddies.


I wouldn't mind either, if this wasn't just a part of a pattern, like the last group decision big signing they made on re-signing Koskinen. I bet Koskinen knows exactly the feeling Holland just had.

It is still kinda lame too though that we tossed an offer Holland never expected, if this report is true. Shows a level of desperation. Being old friends was not enough I guess, Nicholson felt he had to blow his mind.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737176 is a reply to message #737172 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 16:27


I wouldn't mind either, if this wasn't just a part of a pattern, like the last group decision big signing they made on re-signing Koskinen. I bet Koskinen knows exactly the feeling Holland just had.

It is still kinda lame too though that we tossed an offer Holland never expected, if this report is true. Shows a level of desperation. Being old friends was not enough I guess, Nicholson felt he had to blow his mind.


Oh ya, this organizanization was woefully unprepared for this entire process. I think you have it right, in that this was an act of desperation. They had pre-populated their short list with 3 names. McCrimmon turned them down, they realized the fanbase would absolutely freak out if they named Gretzky and Hunter, by all accounts, did not fit what they were looking for. So they threw a Hail Mary to Holland. The inability of this organization to appear halfway competent in anything they do would be hilarious if it wasnt so depressing.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19 pace: 234 GF / 274 GA (-40)

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737189 is a reply to message #737172 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently online mightyreasoner
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 17:27

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 17:25

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 15:59

Jm Matheson @NHLbyMatty
Holland told friends around the NHL he was blown away by the Oilers offer (reportedly 5 years, $5 mil per), plus his friends all knew he still had the fire to be a GM. Not ready to put his feet up at 63...


So, this kinda went like a Chia negotiation? We just go all in with an offer the other guy never could have imagined. Then, I guess hope he feels bad and asks for less? Thank goodness there is no management salary cap :)


I actually don't have a problem with the Oilers spending more on their front office. In a cap world, and as one of the highest revenue teams in the league (although less so now with a low Canadian dollar), the Oilers should have an advantage over less wealthy teams. The caveat of course being that the Oilers actually use their money to hire the best possible people and not just old Hockey Canada buddies.


I wouldn't mind either, if this wasn't just a part of a pattern, like the last group decision big signing they made on re-signing Koskinen. I bet Koskinen knows exactly the feeling Holland just had.

It is still kinda lame too though that we tossed an offer Holland never expected, if this report is true. Shows a level of desperation. Being old friends was not enough I guess, Nicholson felt he had to blow his mind.


The concern I would have is if it causes them to hang onto people longer than they should because the make so much money. Like Chiarelli should have been gone long before he was; was part of the reason his rope was so long because of how much he made?

Same with Holland; if by Year 3 we realize that he is not the right choice and the team isn't where it should be, do they can him, or does he get the benefit of the doubt and get Year 4 because he has $10M remaining on his deal?

The cap doesn't matter for management, but I wonder how much the prospect of flushing actual dollars influences a teams decision to retain or sever employment.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737193 is a reply to message #737189 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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mightyreasoner wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 22:16

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 17:27

Goose wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 17:25

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 15:59

Jm Matheson @NHLbyMatty
Holland told friends around the NHL he was blown away by the Oilers offer (reportedly 5 years, $5 mil per), plus his friends all knew he still had the fire to be a GM. Not ready to put his feet up at 63...


So, this kinda went like a Chia negotiation? We just go all in with an offer the other guy never could have imagined. Then, I guess hope he feels bad and asks for less? Thank goodness there is no management salary cap :)


I actually don't have a problem with the Oilers spending more on their front office. In a cap world, and as one of the highest revenue teams in the league (although less so now with a low Canadian dollar), the Oilers should have an advantage over less wealthy teams. The caveat of course being that the Oilers actually use their money to hire the best possible people and not just old Hockey Canada buddies.


I wouldn't mind either, if this wasn't just a part of a pattern, like the last group decision big signing they made on re-signing Koskinen. I bet Koskinen knows exactly the feeling Holland just had.

It is still kinda lame too though that we tossed an offer Holland never expected, if this report is true. Shows a level of desperation. Being old friends was not enough I guess, Nicholson felt he had to blow his mind.


The concern I would have is if it causes them to hang onto people longer than they should because the make so much money. Like Chiarelli should have been gone long before he was; was part of the reason his rope was so long because of how much he made?

Same with Holland; if by Year 3 we realize that he is not the right choice and the team isn't where it should be, do they can him, or does he get the benefit of the doubt and get Year 4 because he has $10M remaining on his deal?

The cap doesn't matter for management, but I wonder how much the prospect of flushing actual dollars influences a teams decision to retain or sever employment.


Yeah, considering what they are giving Holland, who knows what they threw at Chia. Could have been the same 3M that McLellan got. That had to give pause to Katz and Nicholson when considering dumping him, and allowing a McLellan firing.

If Holland is a mess in a couple years, I think a cheap inside promotion will be the only option. Wonder who that could be.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737195 is a reply to message #737189 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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I agree here. A lot of coaches/GMs get fired and then work again shortly after. This let's the firing team off the hook for their much or all of their remaining salaries. But in Holland's case, this could very well be his last NHL gig. If you want to fire him halfway through his 5 year deal, that could be 12.5 million dollars on the hook for the Oilers. How comfortable will the owner be with that? This is almost a Lucic type deal but for a GM. It could be very difficult to get out of that financial commitment, and as such will affect the decision to fire him or not.


Clean house or bust

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737197 is a reply to message #737195 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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smyth260 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 22:53

I agree here. A lot of coaches/GMs get fired and then work again shortly after. This let's the firing team off the hook for their much or all of their remaining salaries. But in Holland's case, this could very well be his last NHL gig. If you want to fire him halfway through his 5 year deal, that could be 12.5 million dollars on the hook for the Oilers. How comfortable will the owner be with that? This is almost a Lucic type deal but for a GM. It could be very difficult to get out of that financial commitment, and as such will affect the decision to fire him or not.

These concerns are a bit overblown. Katz loves wasting money on management types.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737201 is a reply to message #737197 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 08:11

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 22:53

I agree here. A lot of coaches/GMs get fired and then work again shortly after. This let's the firing team off the hook for their much or all of their remaining salaries. But in Holland's case, this could very well be his last NHL gig. If you want to fire him halfway through his 5 year deal, that could be 12.5 million dollars on the hook for the Oilers. How comfortable will the owner be with that? This is almost a Lucic type deal but for a GM. It could be very difficult to get out of that financial commitment, and as such will affect the decision to fire him or not.

These concerns are a bit overblown. Katz loves wasting money on management types.


I was waiting for someone to say this! Do we really think a few mill is a concern to DK?

After the tax savings it's more like $6.9M.

I WISH there was a cap on management salary, the team would be so much better off, or absolutely terrible-er. Just imagine if it was Lowe and MacT being the face, name, and negotiators.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737225 is a reply to message #737197 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 08:11

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 22:53

I agree here. A lot of coaches/GMs get fired and then work again shortly after. This let's the firing team off the hook for their much or all of their remaining salaries. But in Holland's case, this could very well be his last NHL gig. If you want to fire him halfway through his 5 year deal, that could be 12.5 million dollars on the hook for the Oilers. How comfortable will the owner be with that? This is almost a Lucic type deal but for a GM. It could be very difficult to get out of that financial commitment, and as such will affect the decision to fire him or not.

These concerns are a bit overblown. Katz loves wasting money on management types.

I agree, compared to bad player contracts which do count against the cap,( potentially Koskinen ) the money they are giving Holland is peanuts.( this org wastes big dollars all the time because they have it to waste ) At least with this deal you are much more likely to be getting value for it. I guess it's possible, like with any signing that it doesn't work out as hoped for but this is a better gamble than many they have made in the past. They could also be begging him to re sign after 5 years even though he wants to retire, who knows.At least you know he's going to put all that experience and knowledge into making the Oilers a winner and positive results will likely follow. As Oiler fans here we always look at the half empty first. This is Ken Holland, not one hit wonder Peter Chiarelli and 5 mil doesn't seem unreasonable to get proven quality especially with all the overblown contracts that get you a lot less.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737254 is a reply to message #737197 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 08:11

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 22:53

I agree here. A lot of coaches/GMs get fired and then work again shortly after. This let's the firing team off the hook for their much or all of their remaining salaries. But in Holland's case, this could very well be his last NHL gig. If you want to fire him halfway through his 5 year deal, that could be 12.5 million dollars on the hook for the Oilers. How comfortable will the owner be with that? This is almost a Lucic type deal but for a GM. It could be very difficult to get out of that financial commitment, and as such will affect the decision to fire him or not.

These concerns are a bit overblown. Katz loves wasting money on management types.


I don't know why anyone is concerned with KH's payday. Katz has the money to spend, he shows that every year as he adds guys like #99, Coffey, etc to the Club in roles that are primarily figureheads or ambassadors. He wanted KH, so he made him an offer he couldn't refuse. I see no issues with that.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737255 is a reply to message #737254 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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bigEfromGP wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:19

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 08:11

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 22:53

I agree here. A lot of coaches/GMs get fired and then work again shortly after. This let's the firing team off the hook for their much or all of their remaining salaries. But in Holland's case, this could very well be his last NHL gig. If you want to fire him halfway through his 5 year deal, that could be 12.5 million dollars on the hook for the Oilers. How comfortable will the owner be with that? This is almost a Lucic type deal but for a GM. It could be very difficult to get out of that financial commitment, and as such will affect the decision to fire him or not.

These concerns are a bit overblown. Katz loves wasting money on management types.


I don't know why anyone is concerned with KH's payday. Katz has the money to spend, he shows that every year as he adds guys like #99, Coffey, etc to the Club in roles that are primarily figureheads or ambassadors. He wanted KH, so he made him an offer he couldn't refuse. I see no issues with that.


I'm always a little concerned about it, because frivolous spending catches up to people and fortunes can swing rapidly. Peter Pocklington was at one point known for flashing cash and doing wild things with it, and then suddenly his back was to the wall and his empire was crumbling. It could happen to Katz too, and at some point if his toy is too expensive, there will be belt tightening somewhere...

What we've seen with the Oilers on that in the past is that they'll ride out their mistakes a little longer - we heard last year that the contracts for McLellan and Chiarelli may have helped them keep their jobs - and they'll make sacrifices much further down the food chain - ie. the lady who's job it was to take care of player's family needs - as opposed to actually firing the fat cats at the top who contribute nothing of value.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737202 is a reply to message #737169 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 16:59

Jm Matheson @NHLbyMatty
Holland told friends around the NHL he was blown away by the Oilers offer (reportedly 5 years, $5 mil per), plus his friends all knew he still had the fire to be a GM. Not ready to put his feet up at 63...


So, this kinda went like a Chia negotiation? We just go all in with an offer the other guy never could have imagined. Then, I guess hope he feels bad and asks for less? Thank goodness there is no management salary cap :)

Lol - that avatar..

Whos that lurking in the background!? Probably someone who isn't involved in Hockey ops in any way shape or form...Kind of a perfect metaphor for the Oilers isn't it?



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737226 is a reply to message #737202 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jay wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 09:18

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 16:59

Jm Matheson @NHLbyMatty
Holland told friends around the NHL he was blown away by the Oilers offer (reportedly 5 years, $5 mil per), plus his friends all knew he still had the fire to be a GM. Not ready to put his feet up at 63...


So, this kinda went like a Chia negotiation? We just go all in with an offer the other guy never could have imagined. Then, I guess hope he feels bad and asks for less? Thank goodness there is no management salary cap :)

Lol - that avatar..

Whos that lurking in the background!? Probably someone who isn't involved in Hockey ops in any way shape or form...Kind of a perfect metaphor for the Oilers isn't it?


That's from 2013, Holland went to the Oilers box and taught Lowe (background guy) and Tambo how to use a TV :)



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737174 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Weird that there’s no release. Like you’re the leakiest organization in history you don’t have to worry about spoiling the surprise. At least give us something like this:

The Edmonton Oilers management staff, in collaboration with top opposing general management specialists, have determined a hiring protocol for Ken Holland which will begin immediately



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737181 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Just saw an interview with Kypreos on Tim and Sid. He is saying that Katz went to Nicholson and told him to do whatever it takes to hire Holland.


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737184 is a reply to message #737181 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Mon, 06 May 2019 20:14

Just saw an interview with Kypreos on Tim and Sid. He is saying that Katz went to Nicholson and told him to do whatever it takes to hire Holland.


And we start to see the fingers point...always good to have a cover story in case it blows up. It was always someone else’s fault...



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737186 is a reply to message #737184 ]
Mon, 06 May 2019 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Someone over in the Oilers HF board found a gif that perfectly describes what Holland is getting himself into by joining the Oil organization:

https://i.gifer.com/WGun.gif

Good luck trying to clean up this mess, Ken.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM offer [message #737204 is a reply to message #737186 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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HOLY CRAP!! Katz is going to be at the presser and will actually talk.


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737242 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Spector confirms that Ken Holland will receive zero criticism from the Edmonton media during his tenure here (not that this is really news):

Quote:

Before games, they hold what is commonly called a ‘press meal.’ The media, the off-ice officials, the visiting scouts, often the two clubs’ training staffs who have worked all day and are hungry, we all pay the $10 or $15 and have a nice pre-game meal.

Some general managers avoid those situations. They have a dressing room attendant get them a plate, and bring it to the privacy of the dressing room so they can eat in peace.

Ken Holland sits at a table and breaks bread with… Whomever. And by the time you walk away from that table, and load into the elevator to get upstairs, you’ve learned a lot about the game and he’s always learned a little. Because there’s always something to be learned from anyone, if you just keep your ears open.


https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-wise-bet-ken-holl and-neither-old-finished/



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737243 is a reply to message #737037 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
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https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/1125816734701826048


Some of the old-timers remember my story about surviving a drug-resistant bacterial infection, so in light of that, best wishes to Katz.



97.

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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737244 is a reply to message #737243 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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One thing about Holland is in listening to his presser, he had a hell of a lot more energy and sounded more enthusiastic that Chia ever did. Chia always sounded like he on his way to a funeral before the odd time he talked to the media.


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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737247 is a reply to message #737244 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 11:51

One thing about Holland is in listening to his presser, he had a hell of a lot more energy and sounded more enthusiastic that Chia ever did. Chia always sounded like he on his way to a funeral before the odd time he talked to the media.


Put this down in the category that doesn't really mean anything important. Ditto for him being great about talking hockey with the scribes.

I don't really care, as long as he doesn't make terrible trades, doesn't sign terrible contracts and maybe, just maybe improves the hockey team.

It's good to hear he isn't anti-analytics though, if you want an actual positive.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737250 is a reply to message #737247 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 11:51

One thing about Holland is in listening to his presser, he had a hell of a lot more energy and sounded more enthusiastic that Chia ever did. Chia always sounded like he on his way to a funeral before the odd time he talked to the media.


Put this down in the category that doesn't really mean anything important. Ditto for him being great about talking hockey with the scribes.

I don't really care, as long as he doesn't make terrible trades, doesn't sign terrible contracts and maybe, just maybe improves the hockey team.

It's good to hear he isn't anti-analytics though, if you want an actual positive.

Never said it meant anything. You can have lots of energy but it doesn't mean you will do a good job. Chia always came off as an arrogant, I am smarter than you are, I don't give a crap.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737251 is a reply to message #737250 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:09

Adam wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 11:51

One thing about Holland is in listening to his presser, he had a hell of a lot more energy and sounded more enthusiastic that Chia ever did. Chia always sounded like he on his way to a funeral before the odd time he talked to the media.


Put this down in the category that doesn't really mean anything important. Ditto for him being great about talking hockey with the scribes.

I don't really care, as long as he doesn't make terrible trades, doesn't sign terrible contracts and maybe, just maybe improves the hockey team.

It's good to hear he isn't anti-analytics though, if you want an actual positive.

Never said it meant anything. You can have lots of energy but it doesn't mean you will do a good job. Chia always came off as an arrogant, I am smarter than you are, I don't give a crap.


That actually fits in really well with the culture in Oilers management...

It's the kind of lovely personality trait (coupled with not actually being as smart as they think they are) that leads to doubling down on decisions like Russell and Koskinen in order to own the haters...



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737252 is a reply to message #737251 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:09

Adam wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 11:51

One thing about Holland is in listening to his presser, he had a hell of a lot more energy and sounded more enthusiastic that Chia ever did. Chia always sounded like he on his way to a funeral before the odd time he talked to the media.


Put this down in the category that doesn't really mean anything important. Ditto for him being great about talking hockey with the scribes.

I don't really care, as long as he doesn't make terrible trades, doesn't sign terrible contracts and maybe, just maybe improves the hockey team.

It's good to hear he isn't anti-analytics though, if you want an actual positive.

Never said it meant anything. You can have lots of energy but it doesn't mean you will do a good job. Chia always came off as an arrogant, I am smarter than you are, I don't give a crap.


That actually fits in really well with the culture in Oilers management...

It's the kind of lovely personality trait (coupled with not actually being as smart as they think they are) that leads to doubling down on decisions like Russell and Koskinen in order to own the haters...

Hopefully with Holland, things will change then. Lots of questionable moves over the years.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737283 is a reply to message #737250 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
philly boy  is currently offline philly boy
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:09

Adam wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 11:51

One thing about Holland is in listening to his presser, he had a hell of a lot more energy and sounded more enthusiastic that Chia ever did. Chia always sounded like he on his way to a funeral before the odd time he talked to the media.


Put this down in the category that doesn't really mean anything important. Ditto for him being great about talking hockey with the scribes.

I don't really care, as long as he doesn't make terrible trades, doesn't sign terrible contracts and maybe, just maybe improves the hockey team.

It's good to hear he isn't anti-analytics though, if you want an actual positive.

Never said it meant anything. You can have lots of energy but it doesn't mean you will do a good job. Chia always came off as an arrogant, I am smarter than you are, I don't give a crap.


Lol. You must get offended and project on people easily. Chia was a terrible general manager, and good riddance, but this thought literally never crossed my mind once. "Oh he's educated... he has to be an a$$hole!"



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737286 is a reply to message #737250 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:09

Adam wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 12:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 11:51

One thing about Holland is in listening to his presser, he had a hell of a lot more energy and sounded more enthusiastic that Chia ever did. Chia always sounded like he on his way to a funeral before the odd time he talked to the media.


Put this down in the category that doesn't really mean anything important. Ditto for him being great about talking hockey with the scribes.

I don't really care, as long as he doesn't make terrible trades, doesn't sign terrible contracts and maybe, just maybe improves the hockey team.

It's good to hear he isn't anti-analytics though, if you want an actual positive.

Never said it meant anything. You can have lots of energy but it doesn't mean you will do a good job. Chia always came off as an arrogant, I am smarter than you are, I don't give a crap.


Funny, you had dozens of "wait and see" or "benefit of the doubt" type posts in your constant defending of Chia and his crap moves but now you have turned on him.

I will say I respect your ability to support the team as a whole but turn on anyone once they are gone.



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 Re: Ken Holland accepts Oilers GM and POHO offer [message #737246 is a reply to message #737243 ]
Tue, 07 May 2019 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Suomalainen wrote on Tue, 07 May 2019 10:46

https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/1125816734701826048


Some of the old-timers remember my story about surviving a drug-resistant bacterial infection, so in light of that, best wishes to Katz.



Holy crap. He's had it at least for 2 years, explains a lot, probably down in the USA getting treatment/surgeries the last two years.
An example of modern society's undaunted tendency to form hard opinions despite an absence of facts.



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