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 Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734767]
Wed, 03 April 2019 13:21 Go to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Starting a thread to track rumours and rumbles about what if anything is percolating out of the mess that we call and organization.

Post Knights McDavid press talk...

Quote:


Dennis King @DKingBH
Obviously not gonna say how I know, but, the McDavid comments are causing pure chaos in the Oilers organization. This isn't me speculating. This is me knowing

10:19 PM - 2 Apr 2019

47 Retweets
328 Likes



For over a decade the horde of fans have demanded change. Local media has supported their friends running the team. Outside media has pointed and laughed. Everyone in the organization has just shrugged and played dumb. The owner hasn't done anything but give his cronies more important sounding job titles. The GMs have pissed away anything resembling a NHL roster.

But maybe a 22 year old finally dropped the gavel with a few choice words. Maybe.

[Updated on: Wed, 03 April 2019 13:23]


Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734768 is a reply to message #734767 ]
Wed, 03 April 2019 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
steve.kreys  is currently offline steve.kreys
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nullterm wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:21

Starting a thread to track rumours and rumbles about what if anything is percolating out of the mess that we call and organization.

Post Knights McDavid press talk...

Quote:


Dennis King @DKingBH
Obviously not gonna say how I know, but, the McDavid comments are causing pure chaos in the Oilers organization. This isn't me speculating. This is me knowing

10:19 PM - 2 Apr 2019

47 Retweets
328 Likes



For over a decade the horde of fans have demanded change. Local media has supported their friends running the team. Outside media has pointed and laughed. Everyone in the organization has just shrugged and played dumb. The owner hasn't done anything but give his cronies more important sounding job titles. The GMs have pissed away anything resembling a NHL roster.

But maybe a 22 year old finally dropped the gavel with a few choice words. Maybe.


My gutt tells me McDavid asks for a trade within 24 months



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734770 is a reply to message #734767 ]
Wed, 03 April 2019 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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It was a well earned warning shot.

I'm surprised the Oilers paid attention, honestly. We will see.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734771 is a reply to message #734770 ]
Wed, 03 April 2019 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:39

It was a well earned warning shot.

I'm surprised the Oilers paid attention, honestly. We will see.


Remember, they may not actually be paying attention. They may just be giving it lip service...

Part of the problem is that the guys who are the problem think that they couldn't possibly be the problem, and the only one who can make actual change would have to fire his buddies to do so...which might mean he can't hang out with his hockey heroes any more.

Not to mention, firing those buddies means he'd have to make the next hire, and I'm not sure he has any idea where to start there, so he's just leaving it to Bob Nicholson to muddle through and find out who Marc Bergevin, Joe Sakic and Don Sweeney think he should be hiring...



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734773 is a reply to message #734771 ]
Wed, 03 April 2019 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Adam wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 12:43

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:39

It was a well earned warning shot.

I'm surprised the Oilers paid attention, honestly. We will see.


Remember, they may not actually be paying attention. They may just be giving it lip service...

Part of the problem is that the guys who are the problem think that they couldn't possibly be the problem, and the only one who can make actual change would have to fire his buddies to do so...which might mean he can't hang out with his hockey heroes any more.

Not to mention, firing those buddies means he'd have to make the next hire, and I'm not sure he has any idea where to start there, so he's just leaving it to Bob Nicholson to muddle through and find out who Marc Bergevin, Joe Sakic and Don Sweeney think he should be hiring...


Ya, I'm not sure that a group that lacks the self-awareness to identify the problem after over a decade of being the joke of the league is going to be significantly swayed by McDavid saying he's frustrated.

I mean, he hasn't even won a Cup yet, what could he possibly know?



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18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734774 is a reply to message #734771 ]
Wed, 03 April 2019 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Adam wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 12:43

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:39

It was a well earned warning shot.

I'm surprised the Oilers paid attention, honestly. We will see.


Remember, they may not actually be paying attention. They may just be giving it lip service...

Part of the problem is that the guys who are the problem think that they couldn't possibly be the problem, and the only one who can make actual change would have to fire his buddies to do so...which might mean he can't hang out with his hockey heroes any more.

Not to mention, firing those buddies means he'd have to make the next hire, and I'm not sure he has any idea where to start there, so he's just leaving it to Bob Nicholson to muddle through and find out who Marc Bergevin, Joe Sakic and Don Sweeney think he should be hiring...


We can only judge this based on what the Oilers -actually do- from now. They always say they are going to audit, re-evaluate, bring in new blood, etc etc etc. But in the end they just repeat the same dumb actions and repeat the same historical mistakes time and time again.

Until Lowe, MacT, Howson, and likely now Bobby are all physically removed from the offices, nothing will change because they are still shaping and influencing the process that lands us right back where we started. I've seen executives completely screw up companies/offices/projects with a single 30 minute meeting trying to put their stamp on it. And no one can tell me any different about what's been happening for over a decade now.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734772 is a reply to message #734770 ]
Wed, 03 April 2019 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:39

It was a well earned warning shot.

I'm surprised the Oilers paid attention, honestly. We will see.


It was a very much NEEDED warning shot from McDavid. I think it was a definite shot at the organization to get their act together. They flat out have made stupid, stupid mistakes and it has to stop. Who ever is incharge of pro scouting and making decisions on trades and signings clearly doesn't know what the hell they are doing. But it's also a shot at his teammates. There are guys on this team that share a dressing room with McDavid who are flat out not pulling their weight. I am not saying the roster doesn't have holes or is good enough because it's not. But when the Coyotes who's highest scoring forward has 46 pts can have more points than the Oilers, there is something wrong with that picture.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734794 is a reply to message #734772 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
steve.kreys  is currently offline steve.kreys
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:46

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:39

It was a well earned warning shot.

I'm surprised the Oilers paid attention, honestly. We will see.


It was a very much NEEDED warning shot from McDavid. I think it was a definite shot at the organization to get their act together. They flat out have made stupid, stupid mistakes and it has to stop. Who ever is incharge of pro scouting and making decisions on trades and signings clearly doesn't know what the hell they are doing. But it's also a shot at his teammates. There are guys on this team that share a dressing room with McDavid who are flat out not pulling their weight. I am not saying the roster doesn't have holes or is good enough because it's not. But when the Coyotes who's highest scoring forward has 46 pts can have more points than the Oilers, there is something wrong with that picture.



I give it a year or maybe two at the most before both McDavid and Draistl ask for a trade



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734797 is a reply to message #734794 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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steve.kreys wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 08:11

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:46

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 April 2019 13:39

It was a well earned warning shot.

I'm surprised the Oilers paid attention, honestly. We will see.


It was a very much NEEDED warning shot from McDavid. I think it was a definite shot at the organization to get their act together. They flat out have made stupid, stupid mistakes and it has to stop. Who ever is incharge of pro scouting and making decisions on trades and signings clearly doesn't know what the hell they are doing. But it's also a shot at his teammates. There are guys on this team that share a dressing room with McDavid who are flat out not pulling their weight. I am not saying the roster doesn't have holes or is good enough because it's not. But when the Coyotes who's highest scoring forward has 46 pts can have more points than the Oilers, there is something wrong with that picture.



I give it a year or maybe two at the most before both McDavid and Draistl ask for a trade


So what you are saying is you think McDavid and Leon are quitters? For them to ask you, that would go against how most elite guys are wired. Go down the list of star players who have been on bad teams and how many have asked out?
- Hall was here and the Oilers were crap. When he got traded he was pissed off and sulked for a year because he wanted to be part of the solution. The Devils have been mostly crap since he got there and Hall got even BETTER as a player and he hasn't asked out.
- Tavares spent I think 9 seasons with a mostly crap Islanders team.
- Nash was a on a garbage Columbus team for 9 yrs.

You can easily find more.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734804 is a reply to message #734797 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Here is a question. Everyone is making a huge deal about McDavid saying he's frustrated WHY? Do people seriously think it would be better if he just had a smirk on his face, shrugged his shoulders and said he's OK with missing the playoffs and then went on to talk about where he was going on holidays as soon as the last game was over.

McDavid should be frustrated. So should Leon, Nuge, Nurse, KLef, Larsson, LUCIC. Every player in there should be frustrated, pissed off and sick of this crap. This isn't all on the players because this organization needs to bring in better players and do their job, way, way better. SO changes to the organization, how they evaluate player, how the coaches do things, etc, all need to happen. But except for McDavid, Leon and Nuge, every player to a man needs to be better. So I am glad McDavid is pissed. He should be. Hopefully the rest of the guys are because on a lot of night, there are WAY too many passengers.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734807 is a reply to message #734804 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 10:22

Here is a question. Everyone is making a huge deal about McDavid saying he's frustrated WHY? Do people seriously think it would be better if he just had a smirk on his face, shrugged his shoulders and said he's OK with missing the playoffs and then went on to talk about where he was going on holidays as soon as the last game was over.

McDavid should be frustrated. So should Leon, Nuge, Nurse, KLef, Larsson, LUCIC. Every player in there should be frustrated, pissed off and sick of this crap. This isn't all on the players because this organization needs to bring in better players and do their job, way, way better. SO changes to the organization, how they evaluate player, how the coaches do things, etc, all need to happen. But except for McDavid, Leon and Nuge, every player to a man needs to be better. So I am glad McDavid is pissed. He should be. Hopefully the rest of the guys are because on a lot of night, there are WAY too many passengers.


But they are not frustrated (well none that mattered), how many games have we've seen a listless performance and just bad hockey? Too many, and that is totally on the players, zero emotion zero craps given.. on any NHL team that shouldn't happen on any night.. but this is the Oilers where they have carved out a niche of Zero effort, zero results same clichéd lines. You're bang on there.

One could say that it's the make up of the room and the quality of players, yep.. I give you that and it's on the GM and I think everyone unanimously agrees that the GM was horrible, pro scouting was horrible and the brain trust creating the culture is horrible.

Nicholson told everyone there was a plan and he believed in that plan without ever telling what that plan was.. before that he was doing a forensic audit and the media lapped that up. Now it's a slow pragmatic approached and you guessed it the media has ate that up too.

The fact McDavid spoke up was excellent but what is he supposed to say? Do I think a lot will change because he said stuff? I hope so but in their echo chamber of egos I doubt much changes and if they are all there when the new GM is hired in my pessimistic view it will be K.Gretzky the team will be no where and fast.

Rogers Place may be an empty place soon.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734810 is a reply to message #734807 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 10:56



But they are not frustrated (well none that mattered), how many games have we've seen a listless performance and just bad hockey? Too many, and that is totally on the players, zero emotion zero craps given.. on any NHL team that shouldn't happen on any night.. but this is the Oilers where they have carved out a niche of Zero effort, zero results same clichéd lines. You're bang on there.



Do you think that the culture of non accountability could be to blame for this? This isn't an Oilers 2018/19 thing. This is an Oilers 2007 - 2019 thing.

It seems to me that if its apparent to everyone in the room that the entire organization is built around raking in cash and protecting a few untouchables while scapegoating everyone else then the effects of that are going to trickle down.

Just to go with the most blatantly obvious recent example - Do you think Tobias Reider cares about this team or the logo on his jersey? Of course not. My guess is that it doesn't take players long when they come here to learn how this place runs. You look out for number 1 because you know that the org will toss you under the boss at their first opportunity.

There are so many examples of this...83 comes to mind...If I was a player and I saw the way this group of management conducts themselves..get your money and get the hell out of here.

Honestly why should they care?? So they can get the Souray treatment? So they can be part of the next "Plan"? The remarkable thing is that they try as hard as they do.

[Updated on: Thu, 04 April 2019 11:12]


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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734811 is a reply to message #734810 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Jay wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:09




Do you think that the culture of non accountability could be to blame for this? This isn't an Oilers 2018/19 thing. This is an Oilers 2007 - 2019 thing.


Quick aside, this is a Oilers 2000 - 2019 thing. "New" Oilers culture is an adult now. Old enough to drink, vote, go to war, and go to jail for crimes against humanity.



This is fine.

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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734812 is a reply to message #734811 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:11

Jay wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:09




Do you think that the culture of non accountability could be to blame for this? This isn't an Oilers 2018/19 thing. This is an Oilers 2007 - 2019 thing.


Quick aside, this is a Oilers 2000 - 2019 thing. "New" Oilers culture is an adult now. Old enough to drink, vote, go to war, and go to jail for crimes against humanity.

I actually considered that...I said 2007 because although the culture was absolutely there pre 07 (Comrie for Perry), I decided that since many of the players then had been acquired by Sather and the culture hadn't quite crept down to that level yet...

That was my rationale...but yeah you are probably right.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734815 is a reply to message #734807 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 10:56

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 10:22

Here is a question. Everyone is making a huge deal about McDavid saying he's frustrated WHY? Do people seriously think it would be better if he just had a smirk on his face, shrugged his shoulders and said he's OK with missing the playoffs and then went on to talk about where he was going on holidays as soon as the last game was over.

McDavid should be frustrated. So should Leon, Nuge, Nurse, KLef, Larsson, LUCIC. Every player in there should be frustrated, pissed off and sick of this crap. This isn't all on the players because this organization needs to bring in better players and do their job, way, way better. SO changes to the organization, how they evaluate player, how the coaches do things, etc, all need to happen. But except for McDavid, Leon and Nuge, every player to a man needs to be better. So I am glad McDavid is pissed. He should be. Hopefully the rest of the guys are because on a lot of night, there are WAY too many passengers.


But they are not frustrated (well none that mattered), how many games have we've seen a listless performance and just bad hockey? Too many, and that is totally on the players, zero emotion zero craps given.. on any NHL team that shouldn't happen on any night.. but this is the Oilers where they have carved out a niche of Zero effort, zero results same clichéd lines. You're bang on there.

One could say that it's the make up of the room and the quality of players, yep.. I give you that and it's on the GM and I think everyone unanimously agrees that the GM was horrible, pro scouting was horrible and the brain trust creating the culture is horrible.

Nicholson told everyone there was a plan and he believed in that plan without ever telling what that plan was.. before that he was doing a forensic audit and the media lapped that up. Now it's a slow pragmatic approached and you guessed it the media has ate that up too.

The fact McDavid spoke up was excellent but what is he supposed to say? Do I think a lot will change because he said stuff? I hope so but in their echo chamber of egos I doubt much changes and if they are all there when the new GM is hired in my pessimistic view it will be K.Gretzky the team will be no where and fast.

Rogers Place may be an empty place soon.



Fair points man. I really hope it's more than just McDavid who's legit frustrated in that room. A lot of guys need to be a lot better.

I even look at a guy like Nuge. Nuge has had a hell of a year offensively. It's the type of numbers I expected him to have years ago. But he's 45% on faceoffs this year. This is his 8th season and he's never been over 50%. If you look at his last 5 seasons, other than last year where he got to 48.7%, he's hovered around 44-45%. So he hasn't improved. He's one of the Oilers main PK guys and he sucks at draws. When you are on the PK, winning a draw is important. I look at McDavid and he shot up 6% this season.

I am not pinning the Oilers woes on Nuge but he's just an example of a key player on the Oilers who in some important areas of his game haven't improved. A center takes 800+ draws after 8 season, he should improve. How many dmen keep doing that same stupid mistakes year after year. Kassian has had a hell of a run. I don't expect him to score like he has all season but where was the rest of his play for 3/4 of the season? He was invisible for 3/4 of the season.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734820 is a reply to message #734815 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Nuge has improved, his points per game has steadily been increasing. And (subjectively) he's been getting better overall. I think face offs is an entirely physical frame limited issue. He just doesn't have a thick body with natural strength to gain a face off advantage. And also limited by the fact as 3rd center in this team means playing with AHLers.


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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734822 is a reply to message #734820 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:48

Nuge has improved, his points per game has steadily been increasing. And (subjectively) he's been getting better overall. I think face offs is an entirely physical frame limited issue. He just doesn't have a thick body with natural strength to gain a face off advantage. And also limited by the fact as 3rd center in this team means playing with AHLers.

Are you sure his points have improved?

https://www.nhl.com/player/ryan-nugent-hopkins-8476454

He had a big end of last season when he was paired with McDavid and he has had a big surge of points when he played with McDavid this year. So has his point really improved or is it just McDavid?

Taking the points out of it. For me, it's not the points for any of the player. The Oilers have 2 100 pt scores and Nuge who's at almost 70. That should be enough. It's the other things. Losing faceoffs at key times. Not covering a guy in front, pinching at the wrong time. Bad goals given up. The little things. How many times either 5 on 5 or on the PK have we seen any player not picking up their man?
I don't care who's the coach or what system they are playing, time and time again we see Oilers players not doing the right thing. How many times have we see the Oiler player trying a silly move at the blueline that causes a give away rather than doing the boring get it in deep so you can change properly. How many times have we seen them try to do the low percentage cross ice pass instead of the safe up the boards?

The management has done a piss poor job of putting this roster together and a better overall roster will help. BUT the players and especially the key players are still not doing all the little things that need to happen all the time. If you look at Crosby, he is a great player but he's not even close to being as exciting as MCDavid is BUT Crosby does all the little things right every single time and his team wins. As I said, when Arizona has a better record and their top scoring forward won't even have 50 pts, that's a problem to me and shows me that the players on the OIlers aren't doing all the little things that you need to do to win.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734825 is a reply to message #734822 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 12:04

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:48

Nuge has improved,...

Are you sure his points have improved?



It's interesting RD, you are bring up one side of the argument that the Oilers don't even explore or even care to, analytics. Even your points you are making are right, just as Nully is right as well because he (as I think he's doing) is doing the eye test.. I agree with him that from the surface, Nuge is having a good year offensively but if (in RD's case) you drill down a even a little bit you see there is room for massive improvement on faceoffs..

I know the conversation isn't about Nuge it about the Oilers organization but it's an extremely valid point that Nuge has some work to do, but offensively he's been great this year.

The Oilers organization need to look at both sides of the player (eye and analytics) and then chisel out what they want the player to improve in.. Nuge in this case needs to work on his faceoffs..

What can be said about McDavid? I think he does need some defensive work.. Draisaitl.. same thing not a lot because that not the players they are but a little focus on that to round out the rough spots.

Darnell? I think his positioning needs to be stronger in the defensive zone (but that is my eye.. analytics may be another story)

The rest of the team? Need to be better players and many of them are not.

From an organizational view, the POHO and more than that the GM needs to embrace all that and the Oilers are behind that analytics curve in a big way.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734826 is a reply to message #734825 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 12:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 12:04

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:48

Nuge has improved,...

Are you sure his points have improved?



It's interesting RD, you are bring up one side of the argument that the Oilers don't even explore or even care to, analytics. Even your points you are making are right, just as Nully is right as well because he (as I think he's doing) is doing the eye test.. I agree with him that from the surface, Nuge is having a good year offensively but if (in RD's case) you drill down a even a little bit you see there is room for massive improvement on faceoffs..

I know the conversation isn't about Nuge it about the Oilers organization but it's an extremely valid point that Nuge has some work to do, but offensively he's been great this year.

The Oilers organization need to look at both sides of the player (eye and analytics) and then chisel out what they want the player to improve in.. Nuge in this case needs to work on his faceoffs..

What can be said about McDavid? I think he does need some defensive work.. Draisaitl.. same thing not a lot because that not the players they are but a little focus on that to round out the rough spots.

Darnell? I think his positioning needs to be stronger in the defensive zone (but that is my eye.. analytics may be another story)

The rest of the team? Need to be better players and many of them are not.

From an organizational view, the POHO and more than that the GM needs to embrace all that and the Oilers are behind that analytics curve in a big way.



I think when the bar has been so low for so long, as fans it's easy for us to get tunnel vision on certain players that exceed that low bar. Nurse, for example, is the type of defenseman the Oilers needed years ago, and still do. Now that he's succeeding based on the eye test, it's easy to look at him as "not part of the problem". I'm not saying he's a problem, only that we still need better defensemen with differing skill sets in order to be a good team. Same can be said for Klefbom, Larsson, Nuge, etc. Having just good players isn't enough. You need the right mix of good players.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734834 is a reply to message #734825 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 12:04

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:48

Nuge has improved,...

Are you sure his points have improved?



It's interesting RD, you are bring up one side of the argument that the Oilers don't even explore or even care to, analytics. Even your points you are making are right, just as Nully is right as well because he (as I think he's doing) is doing the eye test.. I agree with him that from the surface, Nuge is having a good year offensively but if (in RD's case) you drill down a even a little bit you see there is room for massive improvement on faceoffs..

I know the conversation isn't about Nuge it about the Oilers organization but it's an extremely valid point that Nuge has some work to do, but offensively he's been great this year.

The Oilers organization need to look at both sides of the player (eye and analytics) and then chisel out what they want the player to improve in.. Nuge in this case needs to work on his faceoffs..

What can be said about McDavid? I think he does need some defensive work.. Draisaitl.. same thing not a lot because that not the players they are but a little focus on that to round out the rough spots.

Darnell? I think his positioning needs to be stronger in the defensive zone (but that is my eye.. analytics may be another story)

The rest of the team? Need to be better players and many of them are not.

From an organizational view, the POHO and more than that the GM needs to embrace all that and the Oilers are behind that analytics curve in a big way.


I agree with you. The roster isn't close to being good enough. That's managements fault and they wear a ton of blame but at the same time the guys that will make up this team next year need to improve in some areas as well. It's the little detail things. Simple stuff. Pinching at the right time. When a dman is in the offensive corner battling for the puck, the winger on that side has to cover off the point rather than standing there watching the dman. Putting the puck up the boards or getting it deep rather than going for the low percentage cross ice pass that gets picked off 8 out of 10 times. Covering the wide open man in front of the goal. The same stuff.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734841 is a reply to message #734825 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 12:04

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:48

Nuge has improved,...

Are you sure his points have improved?



It's interesting RD, you are bring up one side of the argument that the Oilers don't even explore or even care to, analytics. Even your points you are making are right, just as Nully is right as well because he (as I think he's doing) is doing the eye test.. I agree with him that from the surface, Nuge is having a good year offensively but if (in RD's case) you drill down a even a little bit you see there is room for massive improvement on faceoffs..

I know the conversation isn't about Nuge it about the Oilers organization but it's an extremely valid point that Nuge has some work to do, but offensively he's been great this year.

The Oilers organization need to look at both sides of the player (eye and analytics) and then chisel out what they want the player to improve in.. Nuge in this case needs to work on his faceoffs..

What can be said about McDavid? I think he does need some defensive work.. Draisaitl.. same thing not a lot because that not the players they are but a little focus on that to round out the rough spots.

Darnell? I think his positioning needs to be stronger in the defensive zone (but that is my eye.. analytics may be another story)

The rest of the team? Need to be better players and many of them are not.

From an organizational view, the POHO and more than that the GM needs to embrace all that and the Oilers are behind that analytics curve in a big way.


One thing I'll say in Draisatl and McD's (and even Nuge's) defense, as far as not being as responsible as they should in their own end. There is massive pressure on those guys to score. If their line is outscored, the team loses the game. So when the D get the puck and Drai flies the zone, he's trying to help the team. Then a poor pass gets intercepted and he's suddenly way out of position...

Anyways my point is, on a more balanced team I suspect the defensive issues for the top players are diminished.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734843 is a reply to message #734841 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:42

Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 13:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 12:04

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 11:48

Nuge has improved,...

Are you sure his points have improved?



It's interesting RD, you are bring up one side of the argument that the Oilers don't even explore or even care to, analytics. Even your points you are making are right, just as Nully is right as well because he (as I think he's doing) is doing the eye test.. I agree with him that from the surface, Nuge is having a good year offensively but if (in RD's case) you drill down a even a little bit you see there is room for massive improvement on faceoffs..

I know the conversation isn't about Nuge it about the Oilers organization but it's an extremely valid point that Nuge has some work to do, but offensively he's been great this year.

The Oilers organization need to look at both sides of the player (eye and analytics) and then chisel out what they want the player to improve in.. Nuge in this case needs to work on his faceoffs..

What can be said about McDavid? I think he does need some defensive work.. Draisaitl.. same thing not a lot because that not the players they are but a little focus on that to round out the rough spots.

Darnell? I think his positioning needs to be stronger in the defensive zone (but that is my eye.. analytics may be another story)

The rest of the team? Need to be better players and many of them are not.

From an organizational view, the POHO and more than that the GM needs to embrace all that and the Oilers are behind that analytics curve in a big way.


One thing I'll say in Draisatl and McD's (and even Nuge's) defense, as far as not being as responsible as they should in their own end. There is massive pressure on those guys to score. If their line is outscored, the team loses the game. So when the D get the puck and Drai flies the zone, he's trying to help the team. Then a poor pass gets intercepted and he's suddenly way out of position...

Anyways my point is, on a more balanced team I suspect the defensive issues for the top players are diminished.

Totally agree. A more balanced roster would help but it doesn't eliminate it. Whether the line up is more balanced or not shouldn't impact their decision to put it up the boards, the safe play vs try for the low percentage cross ice pass through the neutral zone that gets picked off 8 times out of 10. OR when they are tired, to try to deke out a guy vs just dumping it into the corner for a safe line change. Those are some of the little things that cost them.

Same goes for the defense. A good skating, good puck moving right shot dman to play with Nurse would help out the second pair. But having that guy wouldn't change when Nurse goes brain dead once or twice a game and lets a guy just stand all alone in front rather than pick him up. All the little things that many of the Oilers key guys skip over.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734854 is a reply to message #734841 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:42

One thing I'll say in Draisatl and McD's (and even Nuge's) defense, as far as not being as responsible as they should in their own end. There is massive pressure on those guys to score. If their line is outscored, the team loses the game. So when the D get the puck and Drai flies the zone, he's trying to help the team. Then a poor pass gets intercepted and he's suddenly way out of position...

Anyways my point is, on a more balanced team I suspect the defensive issues for the top players are diminished.


Well said. (this is where a like button would help! :))



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734809 is a reply to message #734804 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 10:22

Here is a question. Everyone is making a huge deal about McDavid saying he's frustrated WHY? Do people seriously think it would be better if he just had a smirk on his face, shrugged his shoulders and said he's OK with missing the playoffs and then went on to talk about where he was going on holidays as soon as the last game was over.

McDavid should be frustrated. So should Leon, Nuge, Nurse, KLef, Larsson, LUCIC. Every player in there should be frustrated, pissed off and sick of this crap. This isn't all on the players because this organization needs to bring in better players and do their job, way, way better. SO changes to the organization, how they evaluate player, how the coaches do things, etc, all need to happen. But except for McDavid, Leon and Nuge, every player to a man needs to be better. So I am glad McDavid is pissed. He should be. Hopefully the rest of the guys are because on a lot of night, there are WAY too many passengers.


I haven't seen anyone who doesn't think he should be frustrated.
Obviously he should be. I'm not sure where you are getting that.

I think most people who pay attention are thrilled, not only because this is the sort of thing that might actually necessitate real change, but also because if you kind of read between the lines in his comments, it actually sounds like he knows what the real issue is and is pissed about it.

*hint - it has nothing to do with 4th liner x or 6th dman y is lazy or doesn't want it enough*

I mean I don't really think much will come of it but anything that helps to shine a spotlight on those organizational anchors on Kingsway is most certainly a good thing.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #735857 is a reply to message #734794 ]
Tue, 16 April 2019 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LetsBawesome  is currently offline LetsBawesome
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you already said that...


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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734819 is a reply to message #734767 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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I don't doubt the OBC are scrambling to ensure Katz's anger is directed at scapegoats. Maybe Dennis knows of the scapegoats in the crosshairs :)


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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734828 is a reply to message #734819 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently online smyth260
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Let's fire the assistant coaches again and call it a day.


Clean house or bust

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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734829 is a reply to message #734828 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 14:02

Let's fire the assistant coaches again and call it a day.


How the hell is David Pelletier still employed by this team?



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734832 is a reply to message #734767 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734833 is a reply to message #734832 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01

More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.

You won't find too many guys out there any more negative on the Oilers than Dennis King so if he is saying there is positives coming, maybe there is hope.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734849 is a reply to message #734833 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:05

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01

More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.

You won't find too many guys out there any more negative on the Oilers than Dennis King so if he is saying there is positives coming, maybe there is hope.

Miracles have happened to this team before, like the one that brought Connor to Edmonton. It would count as another one if Katz were to finally clean the #%#$ out of his eyes and fire every single person in the Oilers front office before hiring a competent POHO to rebuild from the ashes.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734836 is a reply to message #734832 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
steve.kreys  is currently offline steve.kreys
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01

More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.


Isn't King just some blogger with no connection to the oilers or any other media?



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #735968 is a reply to message #734836 ]
Wed, 17 April 2019 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hibernia  is currently offline Hibernia
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steve.kreys wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 18:49

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01

More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.


Isn't King just some blogger with no connection to the oilers or any other media?



I know King personally - met him through this site 20 years ago -and while he may be called a blogger, never doubt the connections he has made over the years. He has an ability to befriend people that is off-the-charts, even those with which he can argue all day. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's made some connections to one or more people on the inside.

That said, never believe a word he says when he starts talking about his family. That's all rubbish. lol



RIP Decade of Darkness

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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #735971 is a reply to message #735968 ]
Wed, 17 April 2019 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Hibernia wrote on Wed, 17 April 2019 09:01

steve.kreys wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 18:49

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01

More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.


Isn't King just some blogger with no connection to the oilers or any other media?



I know King personally - met him through this site 20 years ago -and while he may be called a blogger, never doubt the connections he has made over the years. He has an ability to befriend people that is off-the-charts, even those with which he can argue all day. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's made some connections to one or more people on the inside.

That said, never believe a word he says when he starts talking about his family. That's all rubbish. lol


I always like it when the core posters from when I registers here come back for a brief visit. It's like we have our own OBC here on Oilfans, except I still want to listen to what they say.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #736026 is a reply to message #735971 ]
Thu, 18 April 2019 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 April 2019 10:33

I always like it when the core posters from when I registers here come back for a brief visit. It's like we have our own OBC here on Oilfans, except I still want to listen to what they say.


So I'm dead to you... cry I thought we made progress over the last year! :)

Opens the door for a burn in 3...2....1....



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #736032 is a reply to message #736026 ]
Thu, 18 April 2019 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Rocksteady wrote on Thu, 18 April 2019 09:33

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 17 April 2019 10:33

I always like it when the core posters from when I registers here come back for a brief visit. It's like we have our own OBC here on Oilfans, except I still want to listen to what they say.


So I'm dead to you... cry I thought we made progress over the last year! :)

Opens the door for a burn in 3...2....1....

Join date: after 2006... man, you have been here for some things.

Long live the new core!



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734840 is a reply to message #734832 ]
Thu, 04 April 2019 15:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01

More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.

#teamgillis



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734908 is a reply to message #734832 ]
Fri, 05 April 2019 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01

More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.


Man, this gets my hopes up but I've been let down so many times by this team. The major change is probably going to be a locker room renovation.



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734911 is a reply to message #734908 ]
Fri, 05 April 2019 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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bigEfromGP wrote on Fri, 05 April 2019 09:16

nullterm wrote on Thu, 04 April 2019 15:01

More from Dennis King...

Quote:

Just a follow-up on this. It looks like positive change is coming. I'm not sure as to the extent, but, there are gonna be some moves that are a major step forward


I'm curious but pessimistic based on history.


Man, this gets my hopes up but I've been let down so many times by this team. The major change is probably going to be a locker room renovation.

Good news everyone! We've constructed a platform for a sixth cup that'll remain empty until the players win us another one. That way they'll know what the goal is and that the job is currently unfinished. You're welcome. PS: we hired Kieth Gretzky, we were in danger of losing cottage time is Muskoga. See ya!



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 Re: Oilers Organization Rumblings [message #734984 is a reply to message #734767 ]
Fri, 05 April 2019 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Heard pieces of Gregor on the radio just now. I think he was saying he heard inside info and that he expects major changes too. Like, 1 or both of MacT and Howson could be gone. Pro scouting will be wiped (including Paul Messier who he named). Duane Sutter out. THink he hinted that the ticket renewals are not going great, and there might be no ticket price increase too.

I'll believe any of it when I see it.



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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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