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 The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721085]
Fri, 26 October 2018 17:04 Go to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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I've been pondering this for a while now, but with the recent healthy scratch of JP, and the subsequent win vs the Caps I felt it was good timing to generate some discussion surrounding this player and his future.

**Disclaimer** I'm really hoping the thread doesn't simply evolve into another "fire everyone" thread, though that's probably inevitable. That said, regardless of your stance on how the player has been handled by the organization to date, here we are today.

I'm curious as to what people think his value is to the Oilers and potentially other teams? If the Oilers still truly believe he's a big part of the future and will be a major contributor to any success the team is to hopefully enjoy, then great! I really hope they have a plan for him aside from sitting in the press box and/or playing a small roll on the ice. He's clearly not winning the trust of the coach, nor his teammates. Something needs to change either with the player or the way he's being developed, or more likely both. Perhaps he needs to spend some time in the A, or perhaps he needs to be thrust onto McDavid's wing and the top PP unit. I honestly don’t know, but what I do know is what they are all doing is not working.

What about his value around the league? If everything continues as it's been we're likely to have another Yak on our hands by the end of this season, potentially sooner. If he still has some value around the league based on his draft position and WJC legacy, perhaps shopping him around would be a good idea. I wonder if exploring a trade may be the best course of action before his value plummets into Yak territory and all we can get is a late round draft pick for him. Or are we already at that point? Would a team like Carolina, for example, be interested in reuniting him with Aho? They have a deep blueline and we could sure use a D man. What about Winnipeg with Laine? Another team with a deep blueline. I would worry about or wing depth, but at this point, it may not be worth keeping him if you could turn him into another asset. On the flip side, Jesse may thrive with another team, especially one with one of his Finish bro’s.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721086 is a reply to message #721085 ]
Fri, 26 October 2018 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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He definitely would still have value. Other GMs must have an opinion that Oiler players routinely underachieve at this point. That's balanced by the fact that the offers that come in will be attempts to fleece Peter C.

Personally I'd keep him for the time being. He's never going to be Laine but he has size and offensive potential. Only concern is if he can think the game at a high enough level. So maybe he ends up being a strong bottom six player. You need those too after all.

#fireeveryone



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721091 is a reply to message #721085 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ales Cooper  is currently offline Ales Cooper
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Management has mishandled the poor guy I think, and they will be forced to sell low. Again.
I like Poolparty. A lot. He’s exactly what they need this season, not the last 2 years. But he shouldn’t have been in the nhl. They screwed up. Again.

I’m at a loss of words as to how this same management keeps doing the same thing over and over and over....

But hey, it’s just a #4 overall pick...



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~nullterm 03/22/2014

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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721127 is a reply to message #721091 ]
Sat, 27 October 2018 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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Ales Cooper wrote on Sat, 27 October 2018 01:25

Management has mishandled the poor guy I think, and they will be forced to sell low. Again.
I like Poolparty. A lot. He’s exactly what they need this season, not the last 2 years. But he shouldn’t have been in the nhl. They screwed up. Again.

I’m at a loss of words as to how this same management keeps doing the same thing over and over and over....

But hey, it’s just a #4 overall pick...


Guy is only 20 years old. Doesn't turn 21 until May. He's only 5 months older than Kailer Yamamoto.

One of the unfortunate side effects of rushing players in to the lineup again and again is that everyone starts trying to decide if they're failures as players ridiculously early. There are a lot of really good players that don't even make the league until they're older than Puljujarvi is now, so the Oilers shouldn't be rushing too hard.

He's definitely been consistently mishandled by the organization, but there's still a lot of time for this player. You have to hope the team doesn't do anything rash here.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721242 is a reply to message #721127 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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He's just flat out not ready. He's barely 20. If he was drafted later even in the first round, no one would bat an eye that he isn't ready. But because he was drafted top 5 which is where most teams had him, everyone expects him to be ready.

I have said it a few times. They should meet with him, tell him they believe in him, tell him where they see him in the future, tell him he's a top 6 guy in their eyes and they want him to go down, be the man in Bakersfield, work on his game, dominate and come back ready to go next year. Then I would tell Woodcroft to play the crap out of him. Every special team, big mins and work with him in practice. If he has a crap game, keep going with him. If Woodcroft doesn't, tell him he can find another job.

He's just not ready and that is OK.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721248 is a reply to message #721242 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 09:09

He's just flat out not ready. He's barely 20. If he was drafted later even in the first round, no one would bat an eye that he isn't ready. But because he was drafted top 5 which is where most teams had him, everyone expects him to be ready.

I have said it a few times. They should meet with him, tell him they believe in him, tell him where they see him in the future, tell him he's a top 6 guy in their eyes and they want him to go down, be the man in Bakersfield, work on his game, dominate and come back ready to go next year. Then I would tell Woodcroft to play the crap out of him. Every special team, big mins and work with him in practice. If he has a crap game, keep going with him. If Woodcroft doesn't, tell him he can find another job.

He's just not ready and that is OK.


Man you're hard on your staff! :) Other than that, yep that's what you do with JP. I just hope he doesn't go down there and sulks, he doesn't seem to be the type but I think I recall something like that.

He needs some confidence in his game and the AHL is a great place to get get that skill set. He's not a lost cause, he is simply not ready.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721249 is a reply to message #721248 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 09:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 09:09

He's just flat out not ready. He's barely 20. If he was drafted later even in the first round, no one would bat an eye that he isn't ready. But because he was drafted top 5 which is where most teams had him, everyone expects him to be ready.

I have said it a few times. They should meet with him, tell him they believe in him, tell him where they see him in the future, tell him he's a top 6 guy in their eyes and they want him to go down, be the man in Bakersfield, work on his game, dominate and come back ready to go next year. Then I would tell Woodcroft to play the crap out of him. Every special team, big mins and work with him in practice. If he has a crap game, keep going with him. If Woodcroft doesn't, tell him he can find another job.

He's just not ready and that is OK.


Man you're hard on your staff! :) Other than that, yep that's what you do with JP. I just hope he doesn't go down there and sulks, he doesn't seem to be the type but I think I recall something like that.

He needs some confidence in his game and the AHL is a great place to get get that skill set. He's not a lost cause, he is simply not ready.


I don't think there will be a problem with the current coach in Bakersfield now but in the past, the Oilers have had minor league coaches who put winning AHL games over development and the Oilers let that happen. They would play AHL vets over young guys. Yes you want to win games but the #1 goal should be developing the young guys. You need some AHL vets because its in the rules and you need guys to show the kids the way but guys like Mitch Callahan or Brad Malone shouldn't be getting playing time over JP if he is down there.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721261 is a reply to message #721249 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 09:59

Rocksteady wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 09:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 09:09

He's just flat out not ready. He's barely 20. If he was drafted later even in the first round, no one would bat an eye that he isn't ready. But because he was drafted top 5 which is where most teams had him, everyone expects him to be ready.

I have said it a few times. They should meet with him, tell him they believe in him, tell him where they see him in the future, tell him he's a top 6 guy in their eyes and they want him to go down, be the man in Bakersfield, work on his game, dominate and come back ready to go next year. Then I would tell Woodcroft to play the crap out of him. Every special team, big mins and work with him in practice. If he has a crap game, keep going with him. If Woodcroft doesn't, tell him he can find another job.

He's just not ready and that is OK.


Man you're hard on your staff! :) Other than that, yep that's what you do with JP. I just hope he doesn't go down there and sulks, he doesn't seem to be the type but I think I recall something like that.

He needs some confidence in his game and the AHL is a great place to get get that skill set. He's not a lost cause, he is simply not ready.


I don't think there will be a problem with the current coach in Bakersfield now but in the past, the Oilers have had minor league coaches who put winning AHL games over development and the Oilers let that happen. They would play AHL vets over young guys. Yes you want to win games but the #1 goal should be developing the young guys. You need some AHL vets because its in the rules and you need guys to show the kids the way but guys like Mitch Callahan or Brad Malone shouldn't be getting playing time over JP if he is down there.

I agree winning won't be a problem with the current AHL coach. rofl



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721264 is a reply to message #721249 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hitmen4  is currently offline hitmen4
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I agree with what you're saying here, but I just have to point out that you don't actually need AHL vets from a rule book perspective. I've attempted to clarify this with you before, and I know others have as well.

You're getting the rule backwards. There is a minimum "developmental player" requirement, not a minimum requirement for AHL veterans. You could dress a roster entirely made up of rookie pros and that is within the rules. You cannot, however, dress a roster entirely made up with veterans (I can't remember the exact number but a "veteran" is a player with over roughly 200 professional games played).

Just thought I'd try and clear this up once again. I actually agree with what you're saying regarding Puljujarvi though.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721269 is a reply to message #721264 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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hitmen4 wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 13:53

I agree with what you're saying here, but I just have to point out that you don't actually need AHL vets from a rule book perspective. I've attempted to clarify this with you before, and I know others have as well.

You're getting the rule backwards. There is a minimum "developmental player" requirement, not a minimum requirement for AHL veterans. You could dress a roster entirely made up of rookie pros and that is within the rules. You cannot, however, dress a roster entirely made up with veterans (I can't remember the exact number but a "veteran" is a player with over roughly 200 professional games played).

Just thought I'd try and clear this up once again. I actually agree with what you're saying regarding Puljujarvi though.


My challenge with Puljujarvi getting demoted (which according to his agent, the Oilers are not considering) is that it's a stretch to think he's not one of the top 8-9 wingers on the team. You can point to his production, but outside of Chiasson and Caggiula (including his empty netter), no one has more than the single goal that Puljujarvi has scored. Yamamoto is playing 2.5 minutes a game more and has not been scratched in any games and he's got a single assist and 4 more shots, despite playing an extra 60 minutes and all of that in the top six.

There's an inconsistency with how the Oilers deal with players that has to be confusing and frustrating for them. I do not believe that Yamamoto has been much better than Puljujarvi despite a lot more opportunities. The two players are only 5 months apart in age, so it's easy to compare them, and I just don't follow the logic with the difference between them. I really do not believe that Yamamoto is world's better defensively, and Puljujarvi may have the higher ceiling offensively.

I'm really not sure what Caggiula does better than him, and Kassian hasn't done anything to separate himself from the youngsters as well. Rieder is listed as a right wing, but shoots left and plays either wing. He's the highest scoring winger on the team now at 0-5-5. Chiasson is a decent bottom six player but lacks the upside of the young players. I'd rather see Puljujarvi getting PP reps - the three goal outburst has #39 as the top goal scorer amongst wingers, but I think it would be foolish to expect that to continue as it isn't in his history at all...



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721271 is a reply to message #721269 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 15:01

hitmen4 wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 13:53

I agree with what you're saying here, but I just have to point out that you don't actually need AHL vets from a rule book perspective. I've attempted to clarify this with you before, and I know others have as well.

You're getting the rule backwards. There is a minimum "developmental player" requirement, not a minimum requirement for AHL veterans. You could dress a roster entirely made up of rookie pros and that is within the rules. You cannot, however, dress a roster entirely made up with veterans (I can't remember the exact number but a "veteran" is a player with over roughly 200 professional games played).

Just thought I'd try and clear this up once again. I actually agree with what you're saying regarding Puljujarvi though.


My challenge with Puljujarvi getting demoted (which according to his agent, the Oilers are not considering) is that it's a stretch to think he's not one of the top 8-9 wingers on the team. You can point to his production, but outside of Chiasson and Caggiula (including his empty netter), no one has more than the single goal that Puljujarvi has scored. Yamamoto is playing 2.5 minutes a game more and has not been scratched in any games and he's got a single assist and 4 more shots, despite playing an extra 60 minutes and all of that in the top six.

There's an inconsistency with how the Oilers deal with players that has to be confusing and frustrating for them. I do not believe that Yamamoto has been much better than Puljujarvi despite a lot more opportunities. The two players are only 5 months apart in age, so it's easy to compare them, and I just don't follow the logic with the difference between them. I really do not believe that Yamamoto is world's better defensively, and Puljujarvi may have the higher ceiling offensively.

I'm really not sure what Caggiula does better than him, and Kassian hasn't done anything to separate himself from the youngsters as well. Rieder is listed as a right wing, but shoots left and plays either wing. He's the highest scoring winger on the team now at 0-5-5. Chiasson is a decent bottom six player but lacks the upside of the young players. I'd rather see Puljujarvi getting PP reps - the three goal outburst has #39 as the top goal scorer amongst wingers, but I think it would be foolish to expect that to continue as it isn't in his history at all...


What's JP done though? He's a big guy that is playing small. He's not using his speed. He's got a good shot but has 9 shots in 7 games. He's not drawing penalties. He's not even going to the right spots. He plays like a junior. The Oilers aren't good enough to have guys like that making junior mistakes. I agree with you, I don't think Yamamoto has been lights out better than JP either but he does go to the right spots because he's had opportunities, he just needs to shoot the damn puck. For a small guy he doesn't play small. He's pretty good at getting pucks out of the corner for a small guy. He seems to draw penalties and he plays a little PK from time to time.

I don't think it hurts what so ever to send JP to Bakersfield tell him he's the man there and make him the man there. He never should have come over from Finland at 18 but since he did, he shouldn't have seen the NHL at all his first year and I would have had him down there again last season. He's barely 20, he's just not ready yet and there is nothing wrong with that.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721274 is a reply to message #721271 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 15:18

Adam wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 15:01

hitmen4 wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 13:53

I agree with what you're saying here, but I just have to point out that you don't actually need AHL vets from a rule book perspective. I've attempted to clarify this with you before, and I know others have as well.

You're getting the rule backwards. There is a minimum "developmental player" requirement, not a minimum requirement for AHL veterans. You could dress a roster entirely made up of rookie pros and that is within the rules. You cannot, however, dress a roster entirely made up with veterans (I can't remember the exact number but a "veteran" is a player with over roughly 200 professional games played).

Just thought I'd try and clear this up once again. I actually agree with what you're saying regarding Puljujarvi though.


My challenge with Puljujarvi getting demoted (which according to his agent, the Oilers are not considering) is that it's a stretch to think he's not one of the top 8-9 wingers on the team. You can point to his production, but outside of Chiasson and Caggiula (including his empty netter), no one has more than the single goal that Puljujarvi has scored. Yamamoto is playing 2.5 minutes a game more and has not been scratched in any games and he's got a single assist and 4 more shots, despite playing an extra 60 minutes and all of that in the top six.

There's an inconsistency with how the Oilers deal with players that has to be confusing and frustrating for them. I do not believe that Yamamoto has been much better than Puljujarvi despite a lot more opportunities. The two players are only 5 months apart in age, so it's easy to compare them, and I just don't follow the logic with the difference between them. I really do not believe that Yamamoto is world's better defensively, and Puljujarvi may have the higher ceiling offensively.

I'm really not sure what Caggiula does better than him, and Kassian hasn't done anything to separate himself from the youngsters as well. Rieder is listed as a right wing, but shoots left and plays either wing. He's the highest scoring winger on the team now at 0-5-5. Chiasson is a decent bottom six player but lacks the upside of the young players. I'd rather see Puljujarvi getting PP reps - the three goal outburst has #39 as the top goal scorer amongst wingers, but I think it would be foolish to expect that to continue as it isn't in his history at all...


What's JP done though? He's a big guy that is playing small. He's not using his speed. He's got a good shot but has 9 shots in 7 games. He's not drawing penalties. He's not even going to the right spots. He plays like a junior. The Oilers aren't good enough to have guys like that making junior mistakes. I agree with you, I don't think Yamamoto has been lights out better than JP either but he does go to the right spots because he's had opportunities, he just needs to shoot the damn puck. For a small guy he doesn't play small. He's pretty good at getting pucks out of the corner for a small guy. He seems to draw penalties and he plays a little PK from time to time.

I don't think it hurts what so ever to send JP to Bakersfield tell him he's the man there and make him the man there. He never should have come over from Finland at 18 but since he did, he shouldn't have seen the NHL at all his first year and I would have had him down there again last season. He's barely 20, he's just not ready yet and there is nothing wrong with that.


We're talking about 60 minutes more so far for Yamamoto. That's huge. And the extra reps in each game are pretty significant too. Only four shots more means that the rate they're generating shots is way in Puljujarvi's favour.

The Oilers have put themselves over a barrel with the player having kept him up for so much of his first two seasons. It looks and feels like a serious demotion to send him to the farm now. They will have to really work with the player, and communicate VERY well if they're going to do it and not lose the player.

Communication hasn't been a strength for this coaching staff, so I think Oilers fans should be very concerned about how this player is handled. If you were in the player's shoes, you would have to ask yourself how much the fact you have significant bonus money on the line plays a role in the handling compared to Yamamoto.

One also wonders if we're not a year away from saying all the same things about Yamamoto. Right now, everyone seems fine with extremely limited production from him, despite being spoonfed top six minutes. How much patience will there be if a year from now he's still not producing big numbers and there's another shiny new 18-year old who the team can push in to the lineup...



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721287 is a reply to message #721274 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 15:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 15:18

Adam wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 15:01

hitmen4 wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 13:53

I agree with what you're saying here, but I just have to point out that you don't actually need AHL vets from a rule book perspective. I've attempted to clarify this with you before, and I know others have as well.

You're getting the rule backwards. There is a minimum "developmental player" requirement, not a minimum requirement for AHL veterans. You could dress a roster entirely made up of rookie pros and that is within the rules. You cannot, however, dress a roster entirely made up with veterans (I can't remember the exact number but a "veteran" is a player with over roughly 200 professional games played).

Just thought I'd try and clear this up once again. I actually agree with what you're saying regarding Puljujarvi though.


My challenge with Puljujarvi getting demoted (which according to his agent, the Oilers are not considering) is that it's a stretch to think he's not one of the top 8-9 wingers on the team. You can point to his production, but outside of Chiasson and Caggiula (including his empty netter), no one has more than the single goal that Puljujarvi has scored. Yamamoto is playing 2.5 minutes a game more and has not been scratched in any games and he's got a single assist and 4 more shots, despite playing an extra 60 minutes and all of that in the top six.

There's an inconsistency with how the Oilers deal with players that has to be confusing and frustrating for them. I do not believe that Yamamoto has been much better than Puljujarvi despite a lot more opportunities. The two players are only 5 months apart in age, so it's easy to compare them, and I just don't follow the logic with the difference between them. I really do not believe that Yamamoto is world's better defensively, and Puljujarvi may have the higher ceiling offensively.

I'm really not sure what Caggiula does better than him, and Kassian hasn't done anything to separate himself from the youngsters as well. Rieder is listed as a right wing, but shoots left and plays either wing. He's the highest scoring winger on the team now at 0-5-5. Chiasson is a decent bottom six player but lacks the upside of the young players. I'd rather see Puljujarvi getting PP reps - the three goal outburst has #39 as the top goal scorer amongst wingers, but I think it would be foolish to expect that to continue as it isn't in his history at all...


What's JP done though? He's a big guy that is playing small. He's not using his speed. He's got a good shot but has 9 shots in 7 games. He's not drawing penalties. He's not even going to the right spots. He plays like a junior. The Oilers aren't good enough to have guys like that making junior mistakes. I agree with you, I don't think Yamamoto has been lights out better than JP either but he does go to the right spots because he's had opportunities, he just needs to shoot the damn puck. For a small guy he doesn't play small. He's pretty good at getting pucks out of the corner for a small guy. He seems to draw penalties and he plays a little PK from time to time.

I don't think it hurts what so ever to send JP to Bakersfield tell him he's the man there and make him the man there. He never should have come over from Finland at 18 but since he did, he shouldn't have seen the NHL at all his first year and I would have had him down there again last season. He's barely 20, he's just not ready yet and there is nothing wrong with that.


We're talking about 60 minutes more so far for Yamamoto. That's huge. And the extra reps in each game are pretty significant too. Only four shots more means that the rate they're generating shots is way in Puljujarvi's favour.

The Oilers have put themselves over a barrel with the player having kept him up for so much of his first two seasons. It looks and feels like a serious demotion to send him to the farm now. They will have to really work with the player, and communicate VERY well if they're going to do it and not lose the player.

Communication hasn't been a strength for this coaching staff, so I think Oilers fans should be very concerned about how this player is handled. If you were in the player's shoes, you would have to ask yourself how much the fact you have significant bonus money on the line plays a role in the handling compared to Yamamoto.

One also wonders if we're not a year away from saying all the same things about Yamamoto. Right now, everyone seems fine with extremely limited production from him, despite being spoonfed top six minutes. How much patience will there be if a year from now he's still not producing big numbers and there's another shiny new 18-year old who the team can push in to the lineup...

He's barely 20 years old. He could easily be a first year pro and in my opinion that is how they should handle him because that is how he plays. He doesn't look like a guy with 100 games, he looks like a guy with under 10 games doing the junior dangles, the give aways and not knowing where to go. You send him down to the minors where they play less games and have WAY more time to practice. You play the crap out of him in ALL situations. Woodcroft is a PP and offensive guy so tell him to teach him where to be and what to do in the pros because he doesn't know. With the amount of travel and lack of practice time, you don't have anywhere near the time to teach a guy what to do in the NHL. It blows me away how people have the mindset that basically it's over for Puljujarvi at barely 20 yrs old. Same goes for Yamo. He's a place holder for Rattie. I think he is slightly more ready than JP but you can still send Yamo down as well. I didn't have Yamo on the team this year but his camp made it so he had to stay up. Once you get healthy, send him down too. He's 20 as well.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721275 is a reply to message #721269 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hitmen4  is currently offline hitmen4
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I get what you're saying, and he is better than some of the wingers currently playing. But that's more of a testament to the terrible winger depth Chia has assembled rather than a reflection of Puljujarvi's readiness to play in the NHL. The reality is that Puljujarvi, for whatever reason, does not have the trust of the coaching staff to play any meaningful minutes. If I'm forced to choose between having Puljujarvi play 8 minutes a game or sit in the press box vs playing heavy minutes in the AHL, I take the AHL route. Ideally there would be some actual winger depth in the NHL and this wouldn't be an issue.

I think its becoming apparent that Jesse probably won't be reaching his potential in Edmonton, so as much as I don't want to see it happen, maybe the best move is to trade him now for a top 4 RD? I've heard people think out loud about Pesce in Carolina, maybe he's an option.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721278 is a reply to message #721275 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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hitmen4 wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 15:49

I get what you're saying, and he is better than some of the wingers currently playing. But that's more of a testament to the terrible winger depth Chia has assembled rather than a reflection of Puljujarvi's readiness to play in the NHL. The reality is that Puljujarvi, for whatever reason, does not have the trust of the coaching staff to play any meaningful minutes. If I'm forced to choose between having Puljujarvi play 8 minutes a game or sit in the press box vs playing heavy minutes in the AHL, I take the AHL route. Ideally there would be some actual winger depth in the NHL and this wouldn't be an issue.

I think its becoming apparent that Jesse probably won't be reaching his potential in Edmonton, so as much as I don't want to see it happen, maybe the best move is to trade him now for a top 4 RD? I've heard people think out loud about Pesce in Carolina, maybe he's an option.


I do agree there. If he's only going to get fourth line ice time and no PP looks, then it is probably better that he's playing big minutes in the AHL. It doesn't look like that's in the cards though at the moment, and so I hope that the plan for him isn't to play him minimal minutes with fourth liners, insist that they need to be defensively perfect, and then also expect production from him. It isn't going to work well if that's the case.

I'm really hesitant to trade a player like this at this point, especially the way things have been framed so far this year because I don't like the odds of the Oilers scoring a win in that trade (especially given who we have making that trade call).

I'm hopeful that at some point we have a coaching change and bring in someone who can build guys up. I look at Puljujarvi and think it looks like a young guy lacking confidence more than anything else.

For what it's worth, I don't quite understand what resulted in this extended benching for #98. His drive towards the puck in that last game he played was a big contributor in Draisaitl's goal - I thought he could have gotten an assist for it - and he only played nine minutes. He was on for two or three goals against, but I didn't believe there were any that he played a major role in. More guilty by association than anything else.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721279 is a reply to message #721278 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 16:41

hitmen4 wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 15:49

I get what you're saying, and he is better than some of the wingers currently playing. But that's more of a testament to the terrible winger depth Chia has assembled rather than a reflection of Puljujarvi's readiness to play in the NHL. The reality is that Puljujarvi, for whatever reason, does not have the trust of the coaching staff to play any meaningful minutes. If I'm forced to choose between having Puljujarvi play 8 minutes a game or sit in the press box vs playing heavy minutes in the AHL, I take the AHL route. Ideally there would be some actual winger depth in the NHL and this wouldn't be an issue.

I think its becoming apparent that Jesse probably won't be reaching his potential in Edmonton, so as much as I don't want to see it happen, maybe the best move is to trade him now for a top 4 RD? I've heard people think out loud about Pesce in Carolina, maybe he's an option.


I do agree there. If he's only going to get fourth line ice time and no PP looks, then it is probably better that he's playing big minutes in the AHL. It doesn't look like that's in the cards though at the moment, and so I hope that the plan for him isn't to play him minimal minutes with fourth liners, insist that they need to be defensively perfect, and then also expect production from him. It isn't going to work well if that's the case.

I'm really hesitant to trade a player like this at this point, especially the way things have been framed so far this year because I don't like the odds of the Oilers scoring a win in that trade (especially given who we have making that trade call).

I'm hopeful that at some point we have a coaching change and bring in someone who can build guys up. I look at Puljujarvi and think it looks like a young guy lacking confidence more than anything else.

For what it's worth, I don't quite understand what resulted in this extended benching for #98. His drive towards the puck in that last game he played was a big contributor in Draisaitl's goal - I thought he could have gotten an assist for it - and he only played nine minutes. He was on for two or three goals against, but I didn't believe there were any that he played a major role in. More guilty by association than anything else.


Maybe his agent should be given permission to look for better line mates for him.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721280 is a reply to message #721269 ]
Mon, 29 October 2018 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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One little nitpick... Nuge and his 12 points say "hi" fishing


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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721282 is a reply to message #721280 ]
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welcometotheOC wrote on Mon, 29 October 2018 20:32

One little nitpick... Nuge and his 12 points say "hi" fishing


Haha...Nuge is more of a converted centre. Same with Draisaitl some times...

But yeah, Nuge has been really good.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721310 is a reply to message #721085 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 15:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Can't find it, but there was an interview Pulju did recently where he basically said he's able to be the player he thinks he should be when he plays in the top 6. I think this lined up nicely with him being banished. Might be AHL time if we're gonna get him any ice time at all.


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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721314 is a reply to message #721310 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 15:37

Can't find it, but there was an interview Pulju did recently where he basically said he's able to be the player he thinks he should be when he plays in the top 6. I think this lined up nicely with him being banished. Might be AHL time if we're gonna get him any ice time at all.


I am sure he thinks he is a top 6 forward and that's awesome. He should be. But he's not an NHL top 6 guy yet. I am a big fan of JP there is nothing that screams top 6 guy in the NHL right now about him. He looks lost out there on McDavid's and Leon's wing. He's not assertive enough, he doesn't go to the right spots. He's got the size, speed and skill to be a top 6 guys, he just needs to figure out how to put it all together. He's just not ready for the NHL. That is OK. I would send him to Bakersfield and have him playing 20+mins a night on the Condors top line and top unit PP. If he has a crap game, you put him out there again and again. Give him a list of specifics to work on. Let him be the man let him dominate the whole year. Come back next year ready to go. He's 20.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721315 is a reply to message #721314 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 16:11

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 15:37

Can't find it, but there was an interview Pulju did recently where he basically said he's able to be the player he thinks he should be when he plays in the top 6. I think this lined up nicely with him being banished. Might be AHL time if we're gonna get him any ice time at all.


I am sure he thinks he is a top 6 forward and that's awesome. He should be. But he's not an NHL top 6 guy yet. I am a big fan of JP there is nothing that screams top 6 guy in the NHL right now about him. He looks lost out there on McDavid's and Leon's wing. He's not assertive enough, he doesn't go to the right spots. He's got the size, speed and skill to be a top 6 guys, he just needs to figure out how to put it all together. He's just not ready for the NHL. That is OK. I would send him to Bakersfield and have him playing 20+mins a night on the Condors top line and top unit PP. If he has a crap game, you put him out there again and again. Give him a list of specifics to work on. Let him be the man let him dominate the whole year. Come back next year ready to go. He's 20.


Don't you think Todd should just go talk to all the Right Wingers again and tell them to start scoring more, because there's an opportunity here?



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721316 is a reply to message #721314 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 16:11

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 15:37

Can't find it, but there was an interview Pulju did recently where he basically said he's able to be the player he thinks he should be when he plays in the top 6. I think this lined up nicely with him being banished. Might be AHL time if we're gonna get him any ice time at all.


I am sure he thinks he is a top 6 forward and that's awesome. He should be. But he's not an NHL top 6 guy yet. I am a big fan of JP there is nothing that screams top 6 guy in the NHL right now about him. He looks lost out there on McDavid's and Leon's wing. He's not assertive enough, he doesn't go to the right spots. He's got the size, speed and skill to be a top 6 guys, he just needs to figure out how to put it all together. He's just not ready for the NHL. That is OK. I would send him to Bakersfield and have him playing 20+mins a night on the Condors top line and top unit PP. If he has a crap game, you put him out there again and again. Give him a list of specifics to work on. Let him be the man let him dominate the whole year. Come back next year ready to go. He's 20.


Seems to be a clash of egos happening too unfortunately. Jesse may look all smiles, but from his interviews, it seems like he is open about having some feelings of entitlement, which has made it harder for me to really defend him. He was working hard in preseason, but McLellan dropped him down to the 3rd line anyways. That seemed to just take the wind out of Pulju's sails, and he wasn't working nearly as hard there.

Coaching staff really needs to find a way to get through to him. Really hope some of these new guys can help do that. The last group were a bunch of duds. This healthy scratch thing can't go forever though, that's for sure.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721317 is a reply to message #721316 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 17:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 16:11

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 15:37

Can't find it, but there was an interview Pulju did recently where he basically said he's able to be the player he thinks he should be when he plays in the top 6. I think this lined up nicely with him being banished. Might be AHL time if we're gonna get him any ice time at all.


I am sure he thinks he is a top 6 forward and that's awesome. He should be. But he's not an NHL top 6 guy yet. I am a big fan of JP there is nothing that screams top 6 guy in the NHL right now about him. He looks lost out there on McDavid's and Leon's wing. He's not assertive enough, he doesn't go to the right spots. He's got the size, speed and skill to be a top 6 guys, he just needs to figure out how to put it all together. He's just not ready for the NHL. That is OK. I would send him to Bakersfield and have him playing 20+mins a night on the Condors top line and top unit PP. If he has a crap game, you put him out there again and again. Give him a list of specifics to work on. Let him be the man let him dominate the whole year. Come back next year ready to go. He's 20.


Seems to be a clash of egos happening too unfortunately. Jesse may look all smiles, but from his interviews, it seems like he is open about having some feelings of entitlement, which has made it harder for me to really defend him. He was working hard in preseason, but McLellan dropped him down to the 3rd line anyways. That seemed to just take the wind out of Pulju's sails, and he wasn't working nearly as hard there.

Coaching staff really needs to find a way to get through to him. Really hope some of these new guys can help do that. The last group were a bunch of duds. This healthy scratch thing can't go forever though, that's for sure.


So hard to read attitude from assorted small quotes, especially for a player who doesn't speak great English.

I can definitely understand why Puljujarvi would be frustrated by this coach. He has the world's shortest leash, while you have other guys afforded all kinds of rope. Here's a good comparison of him and Yamamoto to date from OilersNation:

https://oilersnation.com/2018/10/30/kailer-yamamoto-vs-jesse -puljujarvi/

Compare his treatment - the insistence that he needs to have third pairing minutes, that playing him with Strome is better for the player's development to how McLellan handled the Lucic slump last year and it's even more glaring.

I don't like anything about the way Puljujarvi's development has been handled. I think there's a decent argument if they're not using him properly that he should be in the AHL playing big minutes (similarly to Bouchard on defence in the OHL), but if he's here, I think he's one of the top two or three right wings we have, and the one with the highest offensive ceiling. Sitting him out four games in a row is ridiculous.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721318 is a reply to message #721317 ]
Tue, 30 October 2018 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 17:33

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 17:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 16:11

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 15:37

Can't find it, but there was an interview Pulju did recently where he basically said he's able to be the player he thinks he should be when he plays in the top 6. I think this lined up nicely with him being banished. Might be AHL time if we're gonna get him any ice time at all.


I am sure he thinks he is a top 6 forward and that's awesome. He should be. But he's not an NHL top 6 guy yet. I am a big fan of JP there is nothing that screams top 6 guy in the NHL right now about him. He looks lost out there on McDavid's and Leon's wing. He's not assertive enough, he doesn't go to the right spots. He's got the size, speed and skill to be a top 6 guys, he just needs to figure out how to put it all together. He's just not ready for the NHL. That is OK. I would send him to Bakersfield and have him playing 20+mins a night on the Condors top line and top unit PP. If he has a crap game, you put him out there again and again. Give him a list of specifics to work on. Let him be the man let him dominate the whole year. Come back next year ready to go. He's 20.


Seems to be a clash of egos happening too unfortunately. Jesse may look all smiles, but from his interviews, it seems like he is open about having some feelings of entitlement, which has made it harder for me to really defend him. He was working hard in preseason, but McLellan dropped him down to the 3rd line anyways. That seemed to just take the wind out of Pulju's sails, and he wasn't working nearly as hard there.

Coaching staff really needs to find a way to get through to him. Really hope some of these new guys can help do that. The last group were a bunch of duds. This healthy scratch thing can't go forever though, that's for sure.


So hard to read attitude from assorted small quotes, especially for a player who doesn't speak great English.

I can definitely understand why Puljujarvi would be frustrated by this coach. He has the world's shortest leash, while you have other guys afforded all kinds of rope. Here's a good comparison of him and Yamamoto to date from OilersNation:

https://oilersnation.com/2018/10/30/kailer-yamamoto-vs-jesse -puljujarvi/

Compare his treatment - the insistence that he needs to have third pairing minutes, that playing him with Strome is better for the player's development to how McLellan handled the Lucic slump last year and it's even more glaring.

I don't like anything about the way Puljujarvi's development has been handled. I think there's a decent argument if they're not using him properly that he should be in the AHL playing big minutes (similarly to Bouchard on defence in the OHL), but if he's here, I think he's one of the top two or three right wings we have, and the one with the highest offensive ceiling. Sitting him out four games in a row is ridiculous.



I wish I could find the article again. I think he says pretty bluntly that he needs better ice time to be the player he thinks he can be. Which would basically make him the devil to McLellan :)

Trying to look at this through the lens of "McLellan is not gonna be fired". Pulju needs to appease grumpy dad, and he is kinda doing the opposite. McLellan likes his "try-hards", whether they get results or not. I really do see Pulju's effort drop off when he's lower in the lineup. It's a bad situation, and I'm just stuck hoping these assistant coaches between Pulju and McLellan can make some kind of magic happen. Or that he gets away from this mess and gets ice time in the AHL.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721442 is a reply to message #721318 ]
Wed, 31 October 2018 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 16:40

Adam wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 17:33

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 17:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 16:11

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 15:37

Can't find it, but there was an interview Pulju did recently where he basically said he's able to be the player he thinks he should be when he plays in the top 6. I think this lined up nicely with him being banished. Might be AHL time if we're gonna get him any ice time at all.


I am sure he thinks he is a top 6 forward and that's awesome. He should be. But he's not an NHL top 6 guy yet. I am a big fan of JP there is nothing that screams top 6 guy in the NHL right now about him. He looks lost out there on McDavid's and Leon's wing. He's not assertive enough, he doesn't go to the right spots. He's got the size, speed and skill to be a top 6 guys, he just needs to figure out how to put it all together. He's just not ready for the NHL. That is OK. I would send him to Bakersfield and have him playing 20+mins a night on the Condors top line and top unit PP. If he has a crap game, you put him out there again and again. Give him a list of specifics to work on. Let him be the man let him dominate the whole year. Come back next year ready to go. He's 20.


Seems to be a clash of egos happening too unfortunately. Jesse may look all smiles, but from his interviews, it seems like he is open about having some feelings of entitlement, which has made it harder for me to really defend him. He was working hard in preseason, but McLellan dropped him down to the 3rd line anyways. That seemed to just take the wind out of Pulju's sails, and he wasn't working nearly as hard there.

Coaching staff really needs to find a way to get through to him. Really hope some of these new guys can help do that. The last group were a bunch of duds. This healthy scratch thing can't go forever though, that's for sure.


So hard to read attitude from assorted small quotes, especially for a player who doesn't speak great English.

I can definitely understand why Puljujarvi would be frustrated by this coach. He has the world's shortest leash, while you have other guys afforded all kinds of rope. Here's a good comparison of him and Yamamoto to date from OilersNation:

https://oilersnation.com/2018/10/30/kailer-yamamoto-vs-jesse -puljujarvi/

Compare his treatment - the insistence that he needs to have third pairing minutes, that playing him with Strome is better for the player's development to how McLellan handled the Lucic slump last year and it's even more glaring.

I don't like anything about the way Puljujarvi's development has been handled. I think there's a decent argument if they're not using him properly that he should be in the AHL playing big minutes (similarly to Bouchard on defence in the OHL), but if he's here, I think he's one of the top two or three right wings we have, and the one with the highest offensive ceiling. Sitting him out four games in a row is ridiculous.



I wish I could find the article again. I think he says pretty bluntly that he needs better ice time to be the player he thinks he can be. Which would basically make him the devil to McLellan :)

Trying to look at this through the lens of "McLellan is not gonna be fired". Pulju needs to appease grumpy dad, and he is kinda doing the opposite. McLellan likes his "try-hards", whether they get results or not. I really do see Pulju's effort drop off when he's lower in the lineup. It's a bad situation, and I'm just stuck hoping these assistant coaches between Pulju and McLellan can make some kind of magic happen. Or that he gets away from this mess and gets ice time in the AHL.


Personally, I think this has the makings of a Yak 2.0 situation. It's been documented in the past that he doesn't seem to "fit in" with the group on a social level, and it's been indicated that certain players aren't too keen on having him on their line because they don't know how to work with him, or he doesn't know how to be in position. Basically, his play is unpredictable making him hard to play with. I recall hearing the exact same things about Yak and then some. His agent was certainly louder about his handling. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that not every player is going to mesh with every coach/system/group/team. It doesn't mean JP is worthless, it means that either he needs to adapt and learn, or less likely the team needs to accommodate him. If neither can be done, then they need to make that decision and move on sooner rather than later in my opinion. Had Yak been drafted by Columbus that year, perhaps he would still be in the NHL and doing ok. Had he ended up in Detroit, with that group of veterans at the time he would have been brought along slowly and possibly developed into a decent NHL player. Or, maybe the same would have happened, we don't really know. But knowing what we know from going through very similar things with Yak, the Oilers should have a much better idea of how to handle the asset then they did before.

Chia and TMac are on short leashes themselves, they need to win today more than they need to develop JP for the future. This seems obvious to me based on the handling of JP this season. Are either going to lose their jobs if JP doesn't play and the team keeps winning? No. Right or wrong, this is the way it is and as result, I see JP's development as less of a priority right now.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721443 is a reply to message #721442 ]
Wed, 31 October 2018 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 October 2018 16:26

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 16:40

Adam wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 17:33

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 17:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 16:11

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 October 2018 15:37

Can't find it, but there was an interview Pulju did recently where he basically said he's able to be the player he thinks he should be when he plays in the top 6. I think this lined up nicely with him being banished. Might be AHL time if we're gonna get him any ice time at all.


I am sure he thinks he is a top 6 forward and that's awesome. He should be. But he's not an NHL top 6 guy yet. I am a big fan of JP there is nothing that screams top 6 guy in the NHL right now about him. He looks lost out there on McDavid's and Leon's wing. He's not assertive enough, he doesn't go to the right spots. He's got the size, speed and skill to be a top 6 guys, he just needs to figure out how to put it all together. He's just not ready for the NHL. That is OK. I would send him to Bakersfield and have him playing 20+mins a night on the Condors top line and top unit PP. If he has a crap game, you put him out there again and again. Give him a list of specifics to work on. Let him be the man let him dominate the whole year. Come back next year ready to go. He's 20.


Seems to be a clash of egos happening too unfortunately. Jesse may look all smiles, but from his interviews, it seems like he is open about having some feelings of entitlement, which has made it harder for me to really defend him. He was working hard in preseason, but McLellan dropped him down to the 3rd line anyways. That seemed to just take the wind out of Pulju's sails, and he wasn't working nearly as hard there.

Coaching staff really needs to find a way to get through to him. Really hope some of these new guys can help do that. The last group were a bunch of duds. This healthy scratch thing can't go forever though, that's for sure.


So hard to read attitude from assorted small quotes, especially for a player who doesn't speak great English.

I can definitely understand why Puljujarvi would be frustrated by this coach. He has the world's shortest leash, while you have other guys afforded all kinds of rope. Here's a good comparison of him and Yamamoto to date from OilersNation:

https://oilersnation.com/2018/10/30/kailer-yamamoto-vs-jesse -puljujarvi/

Compare his treatment - the insistence that he needs to have third pairing minutes, that playing him with Strome is better for the player's development to how McLellan handled the Lucic slump last year and it's even more glaring.

I don't like anything about the way Puljujarvi's development has been handled. I think there's a decent argument if they're not using him properly that he should be in the AHL playing big minutes (similarly to Bouchard on defence in the OHL), but if he's here, I think he's one of the top two or three right wings we have, and the one with the highest offensive ceiling. Sitting him out four games in a row is ridiculous.



I wish I could find the article again. I think he says pretty bluntly that he needs better ice time to be the player he thinks he can be. Which would basically make him the devil to McLellan :)

Trying to look at this through the lens of "McLellan is not gonna be fired". Pulju needs to appease grumpy dad, and he is kinda doing the opposite. McLellan likes his "try-hards", whether they get results or not. I really do see Pulju's effort drop off when he's lower in the lineup. It's a bad situation, and I'm just stuck hoping these assistant coaches between Pulju and McLellan can make some kind of magic happen. Or that he gets away from this mess and gets ice time in the AHL.


Personally, I think this has the makings of a Yak 2.0 situation. It's been documented in the past that he doesn't seem to "fit in" with the group on a social level, and it's been indicated that certain players aren't too keen on having him on their line because they don't know how to work with him, or he doesn't know how to be in position. Basically, his play is unpredictable making him hard to play with. I recall hearing the exact same things about Yak and then some. His agent was certainly louder about his handling. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that not every player is going to mesh with every coach/system/group/team. It doesn't mean JP is worthless, it means that either he needs to adapt and learn, or less likely the team needs to accommodate him. If neither can be done, then they need to make that decision and move on sooner rather than later in my opinion. Had Yak been drafted by Columbus that year, perhaps he would still be in the NHL and doing ok. Had he ended up in Detroit, with that group of veterans at the time he would have been brought along slowly and possibly developed into a decent NHL player. Or, maybe the same would have happened, we don't really know. But knowing what we know from going through very similar things with Yak, the Oilers should have a much better idea of how to handle the asset then they did before.

Chia and TMac are on short leashes themselves, they need to win today more than they need to develop JP for the future. This seems obvious to me based on the handling of JP this season. Are either going to lose their jobs if JP doesn't play and the team keeps winning? No. Right or wrong, this is the way it is and as result, I see JP's development as less of a priority right now.

Oh man I hope he doesn't start going to museums or something.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721444 is a reply to message #721442 ]
Wed, 31 October 2018 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 October 2018 16:26


Personally, I think this has the makings of a Yak 2.0 situation. It's been documented in the past that he doesn't seem to "fit in" with the group on a social level, and it's been indicated that certain players aren't too keen on having him on their line because they don't know how to work with him, or he doesn't know how to be in position. Basically, his play is unpredictable making him hard to play with. I recall hearing the exact same things about Yak and then some. His agent was certainly louder about his handling. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that not every player is going to mesh with every coach/system/group/team. It doesn't mean JP is worthless, it means that either he needs to adapt and learn, or less likely the team needs to accommodate him. If neither can be done, then they need to make that decision and move on sooner rather than later in my opinion. Had Yak been drafted by Columbus that year, perhaps he would still be in the NHL and doing ok. Had he ended up in Detroit, with that group of veterans at the time he would have been brought along slowly and possibly developed into a decent NHL player. Or, maybe the same would have happened, we don't really know. But knowing what we know from going through very similar things with Yak, the Oilers should have a much better idea of how to handle the asset then they did before.

Chia and TMac are on short leashes themselves, they need to win today more than they need to develop JP for the future. This seems obvious to me based on the handling of JP this season. Are either going to lose their jobs if JP doesn't play and the team keeps winning? No. Right or wrong, this is the way it is and as result, I see JP's development as less of a priority right now.


One of my concerns with a very young captain is that it can be hard to relate to people from all corners of the dressing room. I think in hockey, like with anything else, it's often easier just to stick close to your cohort and I think that with age comes some wisdom about how to deal with others who aren't in your closest circle.

You would like to think that players would focus on the important aspects - like how can each player help us win - and that they would all try to help each other to be better, but I don't always think that's the case. So many high level hockey players are pack animals and they really do tend to follow the leader's example so if one player isn't part of the group much, and the leader isn't one to make sure that everyone understands that a certain level of individualism is okay, then I think it can be tough.

Coaching can make a big difference there too, but does anyone see McLellan as one to try to make people feel happy and included?

They were talking on the radio yesterday about McDavid and how it's almost a different level of celebration from him when Nurse or Draisaitl scores as opposed to anyone else. They were laughing about it, but I wonder if it's true at all - I hope it's not.

If there is issues with team building and cliques within the Oilers dressing room, you can see where a guy who really struggles to speak the language would struggle to fit in. Puljujarvi is the second youngest guy on the team too...it would be easy for him to be excluded.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721446 is a reply to message #721444 ]
Wed, 31 October 2018 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jds308  is currently offline jds308
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Adam wrote on Wed, 31 October 2018 15:55

jds308 wrote on Wed, 31 October 2018 16:26


Personally, I think this has the makings of a Yak 2.0 situation. It's been documented in the past that he doesn't seem to "fit in" with the group on a social level, and it's been indicated that certain players aren't too keen on having him on their line because they don't know how to work with him, or he doesn't know how to be in position. Basically, his play is unpredictable making him hard to play with. I recall hearing the exact same things about Yak and then some. His agent was certainly louder about his handling. Regardless, I think it's fair to say that not every player is going to mesh with every coach/system/group/team. It doesn't mean JP is worthless, it means that either he needs to adapt and learn, or less likely the team needs to accommodate him. If neither can be done, then they need to make that decision and move on sooner rather than later in my opinion. Had Yak been drafted by Columbus that year, perhaps he would still be in the NHL and doing ok. Had he ended up in Detroit, with that group of veterans at the time he would have been brought along slowly and possibly developed into a decent NHL player. Or, maybe the same would have happened, we don't really know. But knowing what we know from going through very similar things with Yak, the Oilers should have a much better idea of how to handle the asset then they did before.

Chia and TMac are on short leashes themselves, they need to win today more than they need to develop JP for the future. This seems obvious to me based on the handling of JP this season. Are either going to lose their jobs if JP doesn't play and the team keeps winning? No. Right or wrong, this is the way it is and as result, I see JP's development as less of a priority right now.


One of my concerns with a very young captain is that it can be hard to relate to people from all corners of the dressing room. I think in hockey, like with anything else, it's often easier just to stick close to your cohort and I think that with age comes some wisdom about how to deal with others who aren't in your closest circle.

You would like to think that players would focus on the important aspects - like how can each player help us win - and that they would all try to help each other to be better, but I don't always think that's the case. So many high level hockey players are pack animals and they really do tend to follow the leader's example so if one player isn't part of the group much, and the leader isn't one to make sure that everyone understands that a certain level of individualism is okay, then I think it can be tough.

Coaching can make a big difference there too, but does anyone see McLellan as one to try to make people feel happy and included?

They were talking on the radio yesterday about McDavid and how it's almost a different level of celebration from him when Nurse or Draisaitl scores as opposed to anyone else. They were laughing about it, but I wonder if it's true at all - I hope it's not.

If there is issues with team building and cliques within the Oilers dressing room, you can see where a guy who really struggles to speak the language would struggle to fit in. Puljujarvi is the second youngest guy on the team too...it would be easy for him to be excluded.


That's a great point about the leadership group. You would think that would be where Lucic could step in and support the young core by taking on the responsibility of someone like Jesse. Maybe he already is. Truth is, non of us really know. I do see Todd prioritizing saving his job over Jesse's development, and honestly can you blame him? It's not his fault he wasn't given a decent selection of top 6 wingers to chose from yet it's still his job to a ice a winning team. I don't think anyone here can argue that JP definitely gives the Oilers a better chance to win vs what they've been doing. I think he's making the safer choices based on the roster at his disposal.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721450 is a reply to message #721446 ]
Wed, 31 October 2018 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie  is currently offline Xombie
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Puljujarvi for Faulk (or another Carolina D) seems so automatic for me.

If Jesse lights it up with Aho we will all roast Chia.

Fact is he isn't gonna do it here.

Once Bouchard has to go down, maybe that's when this shoe drops.

Yes I am aware our right side would look even worse.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721451 is a reply to message #721085 ]
Thu, 01 November 2018 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Jesse P. is going to be just fine guys. He's a kid inside the body of a giant.


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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721458 is a reply to message #721451 ]
Thu, 01 November 2018 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 01 November 2018 00:11

Jesse P. is going to be just fine guys. He's a kid inside the body of a giant.


I completely agree. I think it's a case where yes he is 20 but he's not 20 in development. I think he was farther back in his development at his draft year than other junior aged players.



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721464 is a reply to message #721458 ]
Thu, 01 November 2018 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 November 2018 08:50

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 01 November 2018 00:11

Jesse P. is going to be just fine guys. He's a kid inside the body of a giant.


I completely agree. I think it's a case where yes he is 20 but he's not 20 in development. I think he was farther back in his development at his draft year than other junior aged players.


Looking back at that dream WJHC line now. Looks like Sebastian Aho is the lone guy that is progressing in a straight line up. Laine is taking a big step back this season. Pretty funny clip from a recent game where Big Buff was battling in his zone for the puck and Laine is just standing there like his controller was disconnected, not helping at all. Buff yells at him "YOU GOTTA MOVE!".

https://streamable.com/tse3z



Definitely need patience still with Pulju. I just wish I had more confidence in this HC to be able to build his confidence and make best use of his skill set. And I wish I had confidence that the GM won't trade him for pennies on the dollar.

And speaking of Laine, I really hope him and Pulju aren't up until 4am every night both playing fortnite.

[Updated on: Thu, 01 November 2018 09:41]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721485 is a reply to message #721464 ]
Thu, 01 November 2018 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 November 2018 09:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 November 2018 08:50

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 01 November 2018 00:11

Jesse P. is going to be just fine guys. He's a kid inside the body of a giant.


I completely agree. I think it's a case where yes he is 20 but he's not 20 in development. I think he was farther back in his development at his draft year than other junior aged players.


Looking back at that dream WJHC line now. Looks like Sebastian Aho is the lone guy that is progressing in a straight line up. Laine is taking a big step back this season. Pretty funny clip from a recent game where Big Buff was battling in his zone for the puck and Laine is just standing there like his controller was disconnected, not helping at all. Buff yells at him "YOU GOTTA MOVE!".

https://streamable.com/tse3z



Definitely need patience still with Pulju. I just wish I had more confidence in this HC to be able to build his confidence and make best use of his skill set. And I wish I had confidence that the GM won't trade him for pennies on the dollar.

And speaking of Laine, I really hope him and Pulju aren't up until 4am every night both playing fortnite.


And Laine gets a hat-trick today!

Pulju gonna do that same?

Assists on Laines goals, Wheeler x3, Scheifle x1, Buff x2.

Come on, Strome and Lucic, you know you can make some elite plays to help Pulju get a hat trick tonight too! I'm noticing that Strome is getting really good at the hope pass from behind the net in the offensive zone play that goes an opposing player or no one so it ends up sending the puck back into the neutral zone. That's Lucic's bread and butter play.

[Updated on: Thu, 01 November 2018 15:24]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721573 is a reply to message #721485 ]
Fri, 02 November 2018 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
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Laine with another PPG tonight. 3 PPG's in 2 games and his confidence is climbing back.

I don't think Pulju has been put in the 1 timer spot more than by accident on a PP his entire time as an Oiler.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721788 is a reply to message #721573 ]
Tue, 06 November 2018 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 02 November 2018 20:39

Laine with another PPG tonight. 3 PPG's in 2 games and his confidence is climbing back.

I don't think Pulju has been put in the 1 timer spot more than by accident on a PP his entire time as an Oiler.


Coach believes that PP time has to be earned through 5v5 play. Doesn't matter if you're the best shooting option.

Some coaches look at the PP as a great place for a young skilled player to build offence, especially if they're going to use them sparingly at even strength, but McLellan only sees it as a place for Lucic to build confidence. For everyone else, it's a punishment or a reward.

That's why you see the fourth line getting PP time in games they play well too - which again is stupid, since those are guys that rarely (if ever) get PP reps in practice, but hey, why not squander 40 seconds of a powerplay on them as a pat on the back!



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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721487 is a reply to message #721085 ]
Thu, 01 November 2018 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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PoolParty isn't going to do much of anything if TMac isn't going to give him the opportunity. This is not good asset management, but with this team that seems to be just par for the course.


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721784 is a reply to message #721487 ]
Tue, 06 November 2018 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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Send Puljujarvi to Bakersfield. Oilers do the right thing, PLEASE!! The guy is only 20, he's not a lost cause yet he just needs more development time. Put your bloody ego or pride or whatever the hell is stopping you from doing it and do the right thing.


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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721897 is a reply to message #721085 ]
Thu, 08 November 2018 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocksteady  is currently offline Rocksteady
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Who goes back to Bako first?[ 12 vote(s) ]
1.Yamamoto 7 / 58%
2.JP 5 / 42%

Bets your money takes your chances..




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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721898 is a reply to message #721897 ]
Thu, 08 November 2018 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently online GabbyDugan
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....hopefully this won't bias the poll and I know Jim Matheson doesn't have any positive sway around here, but he suggests Puljujarvi would benefit from a trip to Bakersfield, while Yamamoto should stay with the Oilers because he is more involved...my choice isn't one of the poll options...send them both to Bakersfield....give them lots of ice time and tutor them in practice (don't the Oilers have roaming advisors like Paul Coffey and the Gretzkys coming out of the wazoo???...

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oiler s/time-for-edmonton-oilers-to-make-decision-on-jesse-puljuja rvi/wcm/72f57a5b-c92e-48a1-ab01-5add092c4aa2




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 Re: The Future of Jesse Puljujärvi [message #721903 is a reply to message #721898 ]
Thu, 08 November 2018 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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GabbyDugan wrote on Thu, 08 November 2018 09:03

....hopefully this won't bias the poll and I know Jim Matheson doesn't have any positive sway around here, but he suggests Puljujarvi would benefit from a trip to Bakersfield, while Yamamoto should stay with the Oilers because he is more involved...my choice isn't one of the poll options...send them both to Bakersfield....give them lots of ice time and tutor them in practice (don't the Oilers have roaming advisors like Paul Coffey and the Gretzkys coming out of the wazoo???...

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oiler s/time-for-edmonton-oilers-to-make-decision-on-jesse-puljuja rvi/wcm/72f57a5b-c92e-48a1-ab01-5add092c4aa2

You are forgetting that "Skills Coach" is more of an honorary title around here.



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