This day on December 16
Departed: Mike Comrie (2003)

Happy Birthday To: Eric Belanger, Treads, lancewendall, Shad1216

F.A.Q. Terms of Use F.A.Q. F.A.Q.
Members Members   Search Search     Register Register   Login Login   Home Home
 Oilers » Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield
Switch to flat viewSwitch to tree viewCreate a new topicSubmit Reply
 Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713953]
Fri, 27 April 2018 08:56 Go to next message
Lew19  is currently offline Lew19
Messages: 101
Registered: February 2009

No Cups

This is a good move. I kinda felt bad for the guy this year. Now if the Oilers tank in the first 20, and McLellan is let go...Does he get called up?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-name-assistant-co ach-jay-woodcroft-new-ahl-head-coach/



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713954 is a reply to message #713953 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 11127
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Lew19 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 08:56

This is a good move. I kinda felt bad for the guy this year. Now if the Oilers tank in the first 20, and McLellan is let go...Does he get called up?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-name-assistant-co ach-jay-woodcroft-new-ahl-head-coach/


Think it's more likely Woodcroft leaves if McLellan is fired, and they go try to start a tree-house club somewhere else.

Rumor is Gulutzan and Yawney are both coming in as assistant coaches for McLellan. Both guys are former NHL HC's. Pretty easy to move on from the McLellan/Woodcroft age with some good quality assistants.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713959 is a reply to message #713954 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 1316
Registered: May 2009
Location: Saskatoon

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 08:58

Lew19 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 08:56

This is a good move. I kinda felt bad for the guy this year. Now if the Oilers tank in the first 20, and McLellan is let go...Does he get called up?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-name-assistant-co ach-jay-woodcroft-new-ahl-head-coach/


Think it's more likely Woodcroft leaves if McLellan is fired, and they go try to start a tree-house club somewhere else.

Rumor is Gulutzan and Yawney are both coming in as assistant coaches for McLellan. Both guys are former NHL HC's. Pretty easy to move on from the McLellan/Woodcroft age with some good quality assistants.


Great move! Say what you want, he'll have someone else run the pp for him in Bakersfield and he isn't running the big clubs pp anymore. Win.

Bring in GG and Yawney... and we could have a mighty fine staff.



2016: We need to get heavier, and we need a defenseman!

2018: We need to get faster, and we need a defenseman!

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713991 is a reply to message #713954 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
Messages: 1261
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 08:58

Rumor is Gulutzan and Yawney are both coming in as assistant coaches for McLellan. Both guys are former NHL HC's. Pretty easy to move on from the McLellan/Woodcroft age with some good quality assistants.


If this happens it might be Chia's best moves in the past 2 years. I mean nothing is guaranteed until we see the results but last summer was so underwhelming with moves and signings that even this tidbit has me excited.



"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714010 is a reply to message #713954 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
Messages: 6696
Registered: January 2003
Location: SPCA

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 08:58

Lew19 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 08:56

This is a good move. I kinda felt bad for the guy this year. Now if the Oilers tank in the first 20, and McLellan is let go...Does he get called up?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-name-assistant-co ach-jay-woodcroft-new-ahl-head-coach/


Think it's more likely Woodcroft leaves if McLellan is fired, and they go try to start a tree-house club somewhere else.

Rumor is Gulutzan and Yawney are both coming in as assistant coaches for McLellan. Both guys are former NHL HC's. Pretty easy to move on from the McLellan/Woodcroft age with some good quality assistants.

A former NHL coach the org and MSM can dub “well respected” if they want to fire McLellan after 18/19. Then that HC can be replaced down the road with the other “well respected” former NHL coach.

Check three boxes with one check mark!

#redwineforanotherdecade



Limecat Logic

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714011 is a reply to message #714010 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 6969
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

g2k wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 13:55

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 08:58

Lew19 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 08:56

This is a good move. I kinda felt bad for the guy this year. Now if the Oilers tank in the first 20, and McLellan is let go...Does he get called up?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-name-assistant-co ach-jay-woodcroft-new-ahl-head-coach/


Think it's more likely Woodcroft leaves if McLellan is fired, and they go try to start a tree-house club somewhere else.

Rumor is Gulutzan and Yawney are both coming in as assistant coaches for McLellan. Both guys are former NHL HC's. Pretty easy to move on from the McLellan/Woodcroft age with some good quality assistants.

A former NHL coach the org and MSM can dub “well respected” if they want to fire McLellan after 18/19. Then that HC can be replaced down the road with the other “well respected” former NHL coach.

Check three boxes with one check mark!

#redwineforanotherdecade


That, my friends, is check mark efficiency.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

Drink wine, fall faster, and fly. Fly, baby, fly.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713963 is a reply to message #713953 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 6969
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Even though it'll look like I'm repeating myself when the speculation thread and this one get merged...

The Oilers are cowards. This is a bad move and another example of why the Oilers have been a running joke for 20 years. Not 10, 20.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

Drink wine, fall faster, and fly. Fly, baby, fly.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714004 is a reply to message #713963 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OilInMtl  is currently offline OilInMtl
Messages: 76
Registered: December 2005
Location: Lacombe

No Cups

I don't post much, but man I have to agree with you. Grow a sack and fire someone who isn't performing. Maybe it's improvement that he didn't get a promotion.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714008 is a reply to message #713963 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9558
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 09:13

Even though it'll look like I'm repeating myself when the speculation thread and this one get merged...

The Oilers are cowards. This is a bad move and another example of why the Oilers have been a running joke for 20 years. Not 10, 20.


It's just a hilariously bad joke to take a guy who's failing miserably in his role as an assistant coach, and give him a head coaching role on your farm team.

Honest question that none of the media will have the courage to ask the Oilers - if they were to seek out the best available person to coach the Condors this summer, do they really believe they would have landed on Jay Woodcroft? If not, then why are they doing this? Simply to save them the money it would have cost them to fire him?

Basically, the Oilers have said that this season isn't on the GM or head coach at all. It's on some players - especially those darned 94 kids - as well as the goalie and two of the assistant coaches...one of whom was apparently already leaving.

The Oilers are a bleeping disgrace.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713984 is a reply to message #713953 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 11127
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

They did remove someone! Jim Johnson is out per John Shannon.

Not technically a firing, since his contract just ended. Still, someone that sucks was removed from the org. icon_thumbsup



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713996 is a reply to message #713984 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3358
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Official Oilers tweet came out saying McLellan is back. Johnson and Herbers are gone. Woodcroft was named Bakersfield coach and Fleming & Borgford were relieved as AHL coaches. So they are definitely making some moves to the coaching staff. Whether they are the right ones or enough is to be determined.

[Updated on: Fri, 27 April 2018 12:06]


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714009 is a reply to message #713996 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9558
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 12:04

Official Oilers tweet came out saying McLellan is back. Johnson and Herbers are gone. Woodcroft was named Bakersfield coach and Fleming & Borgford were relieved as AHL coaches. So they are definitely making some moves to the coaching staff. Whether they are the right ones or enough is to be determined.


To be fair, who WASN'T hanging this season's gawd awful performance on Fleming's stewardship of the farm team.

Of course, the Condors were closer to making the playoffs than the Oilers were, despite the fact that they had a terrible roster from day one, and were filled to the brink with AHL journeymen due to Chiarelli's weird shopping spree last summer.




"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713997 is a reply to message #713953 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 1560
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Brought this over from the speculation thread;

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 09:41



I don't see a scenario where a Woodcroft would be putting in his "own" systems. He would be putting in McLellan's systems. Regardless if McLellan's systems are good or bad, you want your AHL coach to be teaching your young players the same way to play as the NHL team is doing so when they get called up, they should be able to just step in rather than take time to figure out what the NHL team is doing.



This is a fair point I hadn't thought of. I will admit my hatred for the style of game the team played last year, specifically on special teams and in a close game past the first period, kept that from my opinion.

Having some form of consistency between the farm and the Oilers isn't a bad thing. I am hoping that TM looks at last year and adjusts the systems for the personnel the team has and the style of play the league is moving towards. If that happens and the team benefits from it having one of his yes men in the AHL will help for sure.



#CarpeDiem4Life
#GlassHalfFull

Seasons without a terrible signing or trade counter= 1 (July 1, 2018 to present)

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713998 is a reply to message #713997 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3358
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 12:06

Brought this over from the speculation thread;

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 09:41



I don't see a scenario where a Woodcroft would be putting in his "own" systems. He would be putting in McLellan's systems. Regardless if McLellan's systems are good or bad, you want your AHL coach to be teaching your young players the same way to play as the NHL team is doing so when they get called up, they should be able to just step in rather than take time to figure out what the NHL team is doing.



This is a fair point I hadn't thought of. I will admit my hatred for the style of game the team played last year, specifically on special teams and in a close game past the first period, kept that from my opinion.

Having some form of consistency between the farm and the Oilers isn't a bad thing. I am hoping that TM looks at last year and adjusts the systems for the personnel the team has and the style of play the league is moving towards. If that happens and the team benefits from it having one of his yes men in the AHL will help for sure.

Whether McLellan should still be the head coach can be debated. That being said, McLellan is a smart guy so I would have to think he would make some changes because what they did this past season didn't work.

McLellan taking to Stauffer on Oilersnow at 12:20 saying exactly what I said. System changes are coming which makes sense but having Woodcroft down in Bakersfield is important because he will be teaching the same system to the AHLers as the NHL using the same terminology as the NHL team will be using so hopefully it will allow for the AHLers when they come up to jump in more quickly.

Hopefully it is the right move and it works out.

[Updated on: Fri, 27 April 2018 12:20]


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #713999 is a reply to message #713953 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 1553
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

The assistants are actually so far down the list of things that worry me. In fact, their PP history is impressive in San Jose. It was great last year. Special teams was awful for one year, but I don't think that necessarily warrants firings or reassignments like this one. The coaching performance as a whole is another discussion. Nailing our problems down to assistant coaching? Yeah right.

This is essentially the sacrificial lamb for the fans. More shuffling, fans can blame somebody, hire Yawney and Gulutzan in coming weeks, fans get excited about "new faces", evaluators stay employed, OBC gets to drink red wine, nothing changes.



How could one doubt the braintrust of 6 Cups Kevin Lowe, MacT's E-MBA from Queens, Paul Coffey's skills coach resume, and drunk Gretzky?

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714000 is a reply to message #713999 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3358
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 12:26

The assistants are actually so far down the list of things that worry me. In fact, their PP history is impressive in San Jose. It was great last year. Special teams was awful for one year, but I don't think that necessarily warrants firings or reassignments like this one. The coaching performance as a whole is another discussion. Nailing our problems down to assistant coaching? Yeah right.

This is essentially the sacrificial lamb for the fans. More shuffling, fans can blame somebody, hire Yawney and Gulutzan in coming weeks, fans get excited about "new faces", evaluators stay employed, OBC gets to drink red wine, nothing changes.


But this isn't shinny hockey where whoever has the best player usually wins. This is pro hockey where like it or not, it's about system play. If your coaching staff comes up with a system that either the players don't understand, can't/ don't want to execute or doesn't mesh with who is on the team, it will hamper the teams performance.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714002 is a reply to message #714000 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 1553
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

So why is that coach getting reassigned to the AHL team if his systems were garbage?

This is not a move about winning. This is politics.



How could one doubt the braintrust of 6 Cups Kevin Lowe, MacT's E-MBA from Queens, Paul Coffey's skills coach resume, and drunk Gretzky?

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714003 is a reply to message #714002 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 6969
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 12:56

So why is that coach getting reassigned to the AHL team if his systems were garbage?

This is not a move about winning. This is politics.

Yup!

But we already know the Oilers don't play to win.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

Drink wine, fall faster, and fly. Fly, baby, fly.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714005 is a reply to message #714002 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3358
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 12:56

So why is that coach getting reassigned to the AHL team if his systems were garbage?

This is not a move about winning. This is politics.


Well for one thing as I said. Successful organizations usually have it where the NHL team and the AHL work hand in hand with how they play. So when an AHLer comes up to play, they jump into the line up and know what to expect system wise, they know all the terminology so they can potentially make an immediate impact and aren't taking time to adjust a new system. Woodcroft having worked with McLellan for a long time would know exactly the terminology he uses and how he likes the game to be played. Another coach wouldn't.

In addition, if Woodcroft's goal is to one day be an NHL head coach which I assume most guys especially a youngish guy like him would want to do, he needs to get some head coach experience. He could jump down to junior to be a head coach and take the super long road but in this case and based on what he said in an interview that was Oilersnow, he took the opportunity to go to the AHL. i



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714013 is a reply to message #714005 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9558
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 13:23

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 12:56

So why is that coach getting reassigned to the AHL team if his systems were garbage?

This is not a move about winning. This is politics.


Well for one thing as I said. Successful organizations usually have it where the NHL team and the AHL work hand in hand with how they play. So when an AHLer comes up to play, they jump into the line up and know what to expect system wise, they know all the terminology so they can potentially make an immediate impact and aren't taking time to adjust a new system. Woodcroft having worked with McLellan for a long time would know exactly the terminology he uses and how he likes the game to be played. Another coach wouldn't.

In addition, if Woodcroft's goal is to one day be an NHL head coach which I assume most guys especially a youngish guy like him would want to do, he needs to get some head coach experience. He could jump down to junior to be a head coach and take the super long road but in this case and based on what he said in an interview that was Oilersnow, he took the opportunity to go to the AHL. i


If he sucks as an assistant coach, who wants him as a head coach?

If the goal is to align the coaches, then run a hiring process and involve Todd McLellan and when you pick the very best option, have the coaches sit down and discuss what system they're going to use.

Moving a crappy assistant coach to a head coaching position isn't the best solution in any scenario, no matter how the Oilers want to try to play this off.



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714019 is a reply to message #714013 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 1560
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:04



If he sucks as an assistant coach, who wants him as a head coach?

Moving a crappy assistant coach to a head coaching position isn't the best solution in any scenario, no matter how the Oilers want to try to play this off.


Even as a huge skeptic of Oilers moves in general I have to disagree. Well, not disagree but to give it a chance.
Perhaps Woodcroft was out of his depth? Maybe he does have the ability to develop young players? Maybe he can implement a system as directed by the higher ups.

This doesn't account for the system itself sucking and the root of the problem being TM in my opinion but it doesn't mean a failed assistant will be a failed head coach at a lower level.

To this comment from another one of your posts;

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:04


Seriously though, Edmonton fans look awfully gullible here. For supposedly knowledgeable fans, they sure can have the wool pulled over their eyes easily. If the PP and PK are awful, then even if he's farmed them out, the head coach has the responsibility to do something about it. He didn't change the staff during the year, and the special teams were still awful.



This one I agree with. If anyone thinks the problems from last year are fixed, at the coaching, systems and management level, they are truly gullible as you say.

Overall I still dont like this move but given the facts of TM and PC staying, it was likely the best we could hope for change wise within the Oilers MO

Of course, if we were fans of a franchise that was run professionally then this would all be moot as there wouldnt be the history of the OBC and nepotism to give us cause for doubt of every move.

The upside is Woodcroft wont be running our PP and at this point I will take any good news in the offseason, regardless how small.



#CarpeDiem4Life
#GlassHalfFull

Seasons without a terrible signing or trade counter= 1 (July 1, 2018 to present)

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714020 is a reply to message #714019 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 11127
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:24

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:04



If he sucks as an assistant coach, who wants him as a head coach?

Moving a crappy assistant coach to a head coaching position isn't the best solution in any scenario, no matter how the Oilers want to try to play this off.


Even as a huge skeptic of Oilers moves in general I have to disagree. Well, not disagree but to give it a chance.
Perhaps Woodcroft was out of his depth? Maybe he does have the ability to develop young players? Maybe he can implement a system as directed by the higher ups.

This doesn't account for the system itself sucking and the root of the problem being TM in my opinion but it doesn't mean a failed assistant will be a failed head coach at a lower level.

To this comment from another one of your posts;

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:04


Seriously though, Edmonton fans look awfully gullible here. For supposedly knowledgeable fans, they sure can have the wool pulled over their eyes easily. If the PP and PK are awful, then even if he's farmed them out, the head coach has the responsibility to do something about it. He didn't change the staff during the year, and the special teams were still awful.



This one I agree with. If anyone thinks the problems from last year are fixed, at the coaching, systems and management level, they are truly gullible as you say.

Overall I still dont like this move but given the facts of TM and PC staying, it was likely the best we could hope for change wise within the Oilers MO

Of course, if we were fans of a franchise that was run professionally then this would all be moot as there wouldnt be the history of the OBC and nepotism to give us cause for doubt of every move.

The upside is Woodcroft wont be running our PP and at this point I will take any good news in the offseason, regardless how small.


Yeah, "best you can hope for" is basically how I see it. Woodcroft off the NHL staff is huge. Yawney coming in is something I can actually be a bit excited about. Even GG, at least we have some guys on the bench now with some original ideas and a modern view of the game now.

McLellan has 2 more years at 3M, the org is probably hesitant to just dump him. Since dumping him is not possible (on principle, stubbornness, the need for team Chia/Nicholson to show dominance, or some of combination of these), this is as close as you can get to salvaging the situation in a way where the team could actually see some coaching improvement next year.

The AHL HC job, meh, good players that have a shot to be NHLers are good players in the AHL. They need support, guidance that aligns with the NHL club's goals, and opportunity. Woodcroft should be at least passable in creating the necessary environment. The big issue with AHL coaches come when they are putting a desperate need for personal gain over development, which is what we seem to have been screwing ourselves over with for the last couple years.

[Updated on: Fri, 27 April 2018 14:32]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714021 is a reply to message #714019 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9558
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:24

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:04



If he sucks as an assistant coach, who wants him as a head coach?

Moving a crappy assistant coach to a head coaching position isn't the best solution in any scenario, no matter how the Oilers want to try to play this off.


Even as a huge skeptic of Oilers moves in general I have to disagree. Well, not disagree but to give it a chance.
Perhaps Woodcroft was out of his depth? Maybe he does have the ability to develop young players? Maybe he can implement a system as directed by the higher ups.

This doesn't account for the system itself sucking and the root of the problem being TM in my opinion but it doesn't mean a failed assistant will be a failed head coach at a lower level.




With a professional sports team that needs to start winning, I don't believe in "giving a chance" to someone who has not demonstrated great proficiency at their current position.

The Oilers could have looked outside the organization and found a head coach who was highly qualified with a track record of success. Instead they found McLellan's best buddy who fans were clamouring to see fired from the NHL squad.

It's a joke. The team really did the least they could possibly do.

And that means that if it isn't coaching and it isn't management, and both know that going in to next year with the same roster puts their jobs on the line, then you should expect that this summer is going to see a bunch of roster movement instead. I have no faith in management to do that in a way that actually improves the team, and more than ever, I'm worried that they're going to want one big move "to re-shape the team and shake them up a little." And that's going to probably be awful since the guy doing it has never won a big trade.

But then hey, you have to start somewhere and maybe we should all just give him a chance? Maybe he didn't have the ability to trade Hall and Seguin, but he WILL have the ability to do it right for Draisaitl!



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714028 is a reply to message #714021 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1795
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 13:40

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:24

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:04



If he sucks as an assistant coach, who wants him as a head coach?

Moving a crappy assistant coach to a head coaching position isn't the best solution in any scenario, no matter how the Oilers want to try to play this off.


Even as a huge skeptic of Oilers moves in general I have to disagree. Well, not disagree but to give it a chance.
Perhaps Woodcroft was out of his depth? Maybe he does have the ability to develop young players? Maybe he can implement a system as directed by the higher ups.

This doesn't account for the system itself sucking and the root of the problem being TM in my opinion but it doesn't mean a failed assistant will be a failed head coach at a lower level.




With a professional sports team that needs to start winning, I don't believe in "giving a chance" to someone who has not demonstrated great proficiency at their current position.

The Oilers could have looked outside the organization and found a head coach who was highly qualified with a track record of success. Instead they found McLellan's best buddy who fans were clamouring to see fired from the NHL squad.

It's a joke. The team really did the least they could possibly do.

And that means that if it isn't coaching and it isn't management, and both know that going in to next year with the same roster puts their jobs on the line, then you should expect that this summer is going to see a bunch of roster movement instead. I have no faith in management to do that in a way that actually improves the team, and more than ever, I'm worried that they're going to want one big move "to re-shape the team and shake them up a little." And that's going to probably be awful since the guy doing it has never won a big trade.

But then hey, you have to start somewhere and maybe we should all just give him a chance? Maybe he didn't have the ability to trade Hall and Seguin, but he WILL have the ability to do it right for Draisaitl!


I think it's pretty clear from their verbal and from this move, that the Oilers don't think that Woodcroft was the problem. Players didn't execute (especially the 94's), and there will be moves. The writing has been on the wall all year for Klefbom, and I think they see Koskinen as a possible replacement for Talbot if things don't work out this year (hence the 2-year deal).



Wins in a row the Oilers need to get to playoff pace: infinity
games!!

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714034 is a reply to message #714021 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 1560
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:40

PlusOne wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:24

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:04



If he sucks as an assistant coach, who wants him as a head coach?

Moving a crappy assistant coach to a head coaching position isn't the best solution in any scenario, no matter how the Oilers want to try to play this off.


Even as a huge skeptic of Oilers moves in general I have to disagree. Well, not disagree but to give it a chance.
Perhaps Woodcroft was out of his depth? Maybe he does have the ability to develop young players? Maybe he can implement a system as directed by the higher ups.

This doesn't account for the system itself sucking and the root of the problem being TM in my opinion but it doesn't mean a failed assistant will be a failed head coach at a lower level.




With a professional sports team that needs to start winning, I don't believe in "giving a chance" to someone who has not demonstrated great proficiency at their current position.

The Oilers could have looked outside the organization and found a head coach who was highly qualified with a track record of success. Instead they found McLellan's best buddy who fans were clamouring to see fired from the NHL squad.

It's a joke. The team really did the least they could possibly do.

And that means that if it isn't coaching and it isn't management, and both know that going in to next year with the same roster puts their jobs on the line, then you should expect that this summer is going to see a bunch of roster movement instead. I have no faith in management to do that in a way that actually improves the team, and more than ever, I'm worried that they're going to want one big move "to re-shape the team and shake them up a little." And that's going to probably be awful since the guy doing it has never won a big trade.

But then hey, you have to start somewhere and maybe we should all just give him a chance? Maybe he didn't have the ability to trade Hall and Seguin, but he WILL have the ability to do it right for Draisaitl!


Perhaps my words disliking this move weren't strong enough to convey my hatred of it at the most base of levels.
I agree with everything you say here. As you say, these aren't things a professional sports organization does.

When I mentioned giving him a chance, I wasn't referring to the Oilers, I was talking about us.
Even that bit of patience is wrapped up in the actions of this team that we are all handcuffed by. I have accepted the unfortunate reality that these moves WILL happen each offseason, doesnt mean I like them but I have to hope for the best and look at the bright side...



#CarpeDiem4Life
#GlassHalfFull

Seasons without a terrible signing or trade counter= 1 (July 1, 2018 to present)

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714012 is a reply to message #714002 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 9558
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 12:56

So why is that coach getting reassigned to the AHL team if his systems were garbage?

This is not a move about winning. This is politics.


This is about cowardice and cronyism.

He's McLellan's good friend and he didn't want to fire him.

And the Oilers didn't have the gumption to make changes anywhere else so something had to happen at the assistant coaching level. Also all the smoke screen from media about special teams being the responsibility of Johnson and Woodcroft paid off. They looked at the polls the Journal ran about changes and saw that the assistants were less popular than the head coach or GM, so they were the sacrificial lamb...except that they didn't actually fire anyone other than Gary Fleming - who had no real connection to anyone at the top.

Seriously though, Edmonton fans look awfully gullible here. For supposedly knowledgeable fans, they sure can have the wool pulled over their eyes easily. If the PP and PK are awful, then even if he's farmed them out, the head coach has the responsibility to do something about it. He didn't change the staff during the year, and the special teams were still awful.

Worst of all? I guarantee McLellan still thinks this is all about execution and his brilliant system may still just yet work...



"This team needs an enema!"
#FireLowe #FireMacT #FireHowson #FireBuchberger #FireHowsonAgain #FireChiarelli #FireMcLellan #FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714097 is a reply to message #714012 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
Messages: 995
Registered: January 2007
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 14:02

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 12:56

So why is that coach getting reassigned to the AHL team if his systems were garbage?

This is not a move about winning. This is politics.


This is about cowardice and cronyism.

He's McLellan's good friend and he didn't want to fire him.

And the Oilers didn't have the gumption to make changes anywhere else so something had to happen at the assistant coaching level. Also all the smoke screen from media about special teams being the responsibility of Johnson and Woodcroft paid off. They looked at the polls the Journal ran about changes and saw that the assistants were less popular than the head coach or GM, so they were the sacrificial lamb...except that they didn't actually fire anyone other than Gary Fleming - who had no real connection to anyone at the top.

Seriously though, Edmonton fans look awfully gullible here. For supposedly knowledgeable fans, they sure can have the wool pulled over their eyes easily. If the PP and PK are awful, then even if he's farmed them out, the head coach has the responsibility to do something about it. He didn't change the staff during the year, and the special teams were still awful.

Worst of all? I guarantee McLellan still thinks this is all about execution and his brilliant system may still just yet work...


Staggering turn of events from the Oilers here. Who could have ever seen this coming!

I mean one of two things happened.

a) Special teams were implemented by the assistants exactly the way TM designed them and they sucked; or
b) Special teams were not implemented by the assistants the way TM wanted and they sucked.

If a) then how is it the assistant coaches fault?
if b) then why were the assistants (in some cases) promoted instead of being fired in season for insubordination?

Or I guess c) - it was all Flemings fault. Problem solved I guess!





"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714006 is a reply to message #713953 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 2623
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

Whatever. Why look anywhere else if The Todd has a friend.

I'm glad they are changing the assistants and think they'll be better off for it. But they've tasked someone who failed miserably last year with the development of their prospects. It looks lazy and like groupthink to not explore external candidates and assume you already have the best guy in the fold.

The only benefit is that he will have a handle on the Oilers systems... unless they all change that up with the new assistants.



Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714007 is a reply to message #714006 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 6969
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Fri, 27 April 2018 13:25


The only benefit is that he will have a handle on the Oilers systems... unless they all change that up with the new assistants.

The downside is the Oilers system either sucks or is unexecutable.



Peter Chiarelli, General Disappointment.

Drink wine, fall faster, and fly. Fly, baby, fly.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714030 is a reply to message #714007 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 390
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

*so far


You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714037 is a reply to message #713953 ]
Fri, 27 April 2018 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
Messages: 342
Registered: October 2014
Location: Creston

No Cups

Can't say I think it's a great move given Woodcroft's season with the oilers but could it be that the system he was trying to implement that kept failing was the brain child of TM? He might just be better suited as a minor league head coach.I Like the two replacements they are bringing in to be assistants given that they both have NHL head coaching experience. Gotta be an improvement.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714119 is a reply to message #713953 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently online Kr55
Messages: 11127
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Default crapping on everything is just no fun (even though taking that position is usually always right with this org), so here is some more positive spin :)


Lowetide gave a list of all the youngins with a shot to get on the AHL squad next year:

Right wing Kailer Yamamoto.

Centre Cooper Marody.

Left wing Tyler Benson.

Defenceman William Lagesson.

Centre Cameron Hebig.

Goalie Dylan Wells.

Centre Colin Larkin.

Right wing Ostap Safin.


That's a lot of kids to juggle, and certainly not a group you want fighting over the last speck of ice time with a HC that is desperate for wins, so playing the vets he has way too much.

If we can find a way to evolve our NHL system with some competent assistant coaches, and translate that into orders for the AHL, there should be an environment where kids that have the potential to make it, are gonna have a chance to show their stuff.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Jay Woodcroft to Bakersfield [message #714120 is a reply to message #714119 ]
Mon, 30 April 2018 12:45 Go to previous message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3358
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 30 April 2018 12:20

Default crapping on everything is just no fun (even though taking that position is usually always right with this org), so here is some more positive spin :)


Lowetide gave a list of all the youngins with a shot to get on the AHL squad next year:

Right wing Kailer Yamamoto.

Centre Cooper Marody.

Left wing Tyler Benson.

Defenceman William Lagesson.

Centre Cameron Hebig.

Goalie Dylan Wells.

Centre Colin Larkin.

Right wing Ostap Safin.


That's a lot of kids to juggle, and certainly not a group you want fighting over the last speck of ice time with a HC that is desperate for wins, so playing the vets he has way too much.

If we can find a way to evolve our NHL system with some competent assistant coaches, and translate that into orders for the AHL, there should be an environment where kids that have the potential to make it, are gonna have a chance to show their stuff.


I can understand the critics not liking an internal guy like Woodcroft after such a miserable season getting the HC job in Bakerfield. But at the same time, I wonder if part of the reason they gave Woodcroft the job was they could count on him to play the kids like an coach should rather than worry too much about AHL wins to pad your coaching resume. As an organization, you always want to win but it shouldn't be at the expense of developing your young talent. You need some vets to help out but in my opinion, at least 4 or out 6 of the top 6 spots should be the players listed above.

Maybe something like:
Vet - Marody - Yamamoto
Vet - Hebig - Safin
Benson - Larkin - Vet



Send a private message to this user  

 
Previous Topic:McDavid not named as a Hart Trophy Finalist
Next Topic:Stauffer reveals what happened to the Oilers...
Oilers NHL Minors Speculation For Sale 


Copyright © OilFans.com 1996-2018.
All content is property of OilFans.com and cannot be used without expressed, written consent from this site.
Questions, comments and suggestions can be directed to oilfans@OilFans.com
Privacy Statement


Hosted by LogicalHosting.ca