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 Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699598]
Wed, 04 October 2017 22:20 Go to next message
OilFans  is currently offline OilFans
Messages: 2583
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

2 Cups

0
3
Final

Score Prediction
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Congratulations to: GabbyDugan for predicting the score.
 
Edmonton to win:   91%
Calgary to win:   9%
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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699611 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
g2k  is currently offline g2k
Messages: 6699
Registered: January 2003
Location: SPCA

6 Cups

Nice tidy little shut out.


Limecat Logic

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699612 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 11655
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

I think the Mike Smith curse is legitimately over. Wasn't 100% sure last year. Think this was a final confirmation.


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699617 is a reply to message #699612 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LetsBawesome  is currently offline LetsBawesome
Messages: 10
Registered: November 2016
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Wasnt quite sure after the 2nd period lol..... I agree

SUCK IT SMITH



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699613 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 6009
Registered: February 2011

6 Cups

Seriously, this is the best opening night for an Oil team for a loonnnnngggg time, maybe even since the last time they got to raise a Cup banner..... Wave Towel


"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699632 is a reply to message #699613 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ryanc182  is currently offline ryanc182
Messages: 161
Registered: July 2008
Location: Red Deer

No Cups

Right up there!

The opener when Ebs undressed the Flames for his first NHL goal and Smacks fight vs Ivanans (although the unfortunate resulting injury) and a sound 4-0 win was something special to start a season. Of course the rest of the year was pure garbage haha.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699614 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 7570
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Wed, 04 October 2017 17:45

Jagr hat trick. icon_lol


I was half right. Wave Towel



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699615 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove  is currently offline vsove
Messages: 1148
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

That was the best defensive game I've seen the team play in a very long time.

Whattagame.



No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699619 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WhoreableGuy  is currently offline WhoreableGuy
Messages: 1133
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

1 Cup

It was scary when it was 1-0 for so long but never felt the Oilers were in danger. At all.

I was just scared of a lucky bounce or something.

Best part of McDavid's 2nd goal was the snow spray left on Mike Smith.

See you guys over at CalgaryPuck!



"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699622 is a reply to message #699619 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 6009
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6 Cups

WhoreableGuy wrote on Wed, 04 October 2017 22:58

See you guys over at CalgaryPuck!

Oh, it's good times reading about the sky falling at good ol'CP. rofl



"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699630 is a reply to message #699619 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
Messages: 411
Registered: March 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

WhoreableGuy wrote on Wed, 04 October 2017 22:58

It was scary when it was 1-0 for so long but never felt the Oilers were in danger. At all.

I was just scared of a lucky bounce or something.



I agree totally, was at OTR and called the ice tilting against the Oil until the Talbot made that spectacular save in the slot to dictate the shutout- that kind of killed the Flames.



Restored: "We're sucking hind banana here." - Pat Quinn, Jan 18, 2010


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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699620 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 23:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 11655
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Gonna be hard for McLellan to not always want to go back to McDavid/Drai for a while now.

Hope something can be sparked with that middle 6 group we have left.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699623 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 1759
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Those 4 lottery balls secured our happiness for 20 years...

It is a freakin treat to watch this guy every game.



When Peter Chiarelli is fired, Kevin Lowe will be involved in finding a replacement. Fire them all. Bring us REAL change.

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699624 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vsove  is currently offline vsove
Messages: 1148
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Crazy number - 9 SOG for Klefbom tonight.


No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699625 is a reply to message #699624 ]
Wed, 04 October 2017 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 11655
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

vsove wrote on Wed, 04 October 2017 23:13

Crazy number - 9 SOG for Klefbom tonight.


Larsson/Klef looked so solid tonight. Klef is definitely trending to be a true #1. Larsson was even jumping up in the play now and then. Larsson and Russell were actually making good passes to teammates for exits (Larsson more than Russell). Maybe the flames are just terrible, but some good signs for those guys. Benning was panicking a bit out there, but didn't end up doing anything too terrible, I bet he settles down over time.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 October 2017 23:19]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699633 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 01:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 5450
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

5 Cups

Impressed overall, McD just being McD, the guy is getting BETTER, he's looking even faster if that is possible. Sky. Limit.

One guy I was impressed with was Nuge, the guy is looking really smooth and smart out there, making good plays at both ends, seems harder on the puck now, good stick, (only one game but I'll be an optimist), if his line can get dangerous like it was tonight, they can keep LD up with McD.

Benning looked better than pre-season, and I'm really happy with Nurse's play, he's starting to click.

clapping



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks, K. Russell = $3.1 M

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699634 is a reply to message #699633 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
messier11  is currently offline messier11
Messages: 487
Registered: July 2006
Location: Manitoba

No Cups

McDavid is on pace for 240-some points this season icon_biggrin icon_biggrin

I was actually nervous for this game, I felt the Flames had made some solid-ish moves this summer and might be a thorn in our side but this game was pretty one sided.

Also, while I liked seeing McD light up the Lames, it would have still been nice to see some others get some points...the dialog outside of Oil country will go something like this "Well, if they didn't have McDavid, they'd never win"



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699640 is a reply to message #699634 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 07:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cosmicheretic  is currently offline cosmicheretic
Messages: 322
Registered: November 2007

No Cups

messier11 wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 06:06

McDavid is on pace for 240-some points this season icon_biggrin icon_biggrin

I was actually nervous for this game, I felt the Flames had made some solid-ish moves this summer and might be a thorn in our side but this game was pretty one sided.

Also, while I liked seeing McD light up the Lames, it would have still been nice to see some others get some points...the dialog outside of Oil country will go something like this "Well, if they didn't have McDavid, they'd never win"


I hear you about the need for secondary scoring but fortunately, 'Outside of Oiler Country' doesn't matter.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699641 is a reply to message #699634 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1695
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

messier11 wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 05:06

.the dialog outside of Oil country will go something like this "Well, if they didn't have McDavid, they'd never win"


I can see the headlines in Toronto:

"McDavid and Matthews with 3 points each on opening night: McDavid goes the selfish route, while Matthews prefers to make his teammates better".



Wins in a row the Oilers need to get to playoff pace: 9 games

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699643 is a reply to message #699641 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1641
Registered: October 2006
Location: Rocky Mountain House, AB

1 Cup

Well that was fun to watch.

Like everyone else I was nervous as hell at 1-0, but I guess it's been conditioned into me that the Oilers will always choke away a lead in close games like that.
Not any more though. Flames barely got a sniff all game.
Defense as a whole played a really solid game. Klefbom with 9 shots(!) and that one he launched into Smith was an absolute rocket.

Suspect that Yamamoto is heading back to jr as soon as Slepy is good to go. Wasn't really noticeable at all last night other than a couple of bad turnovers. Thought he might have gotten a look on pp2, but Strome seemed to be in that spot instead.

Speaking of Strome, I thought he had a decent game. Him and Jokinen in particular were forechecking hard all night.

Always fun to beat the Flames, bring on the Dys!



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699645 is a reply to message #699643 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SunshinesDad  is currently offline SunshinesDad
Messages: 628
Registered: January 2001
Location: Southern alberta

No Cups

I was nervous about the 1-0 lead also but did you guys see that stat that last year we were 21-8-9 or something like that last year in 1 goal games? That doesn't sound like a team that is bad defensively to me and I guess they were in that situation a lot last year. Couldn't have been all Talbot could it?


http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-3PCGZ_c0m91rN7zn75aow

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699639 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Suomalainen  is currently offline Suomalainen
Messages: 2910
Registered: May 2002
Location: Austin, TX

2 Cups

Hate the 9PM Central games - have to lay in bed watching the app, then roll over and try to sleep with those highlights running through my head.

Was worried a bad bounce (probably with Gryba on the ice) would ruin a good night - but really, other than a few minutes in the 2nd, the Flames were kept to the perimeter all night.

25 mph skating down the ice...sheesh.




97.

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699649 is a reply to message #699639 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 2320
Registered: January 2016

2 Cups

I was at the game.

For the Flames:
Mike Smith kept them in it as he was pretty good. When I watch the Flames and their forwards, I see nothing special. Gaudreau can be good but to me he's a slightly better Eberle (when Eberle was in his prime) and can go invisible quite easily. I like Monahan but he to me looks like a slightly better version of Nuge in his prime, good but not great. If I was Trevling, I would have added some forward help rather than worry about adding more defense as apart from those 2, the forward ranks look thin. I don't see how a 46 yr old, slow Jagr provides much of a boost but maybe. Remember when there were actual people who wanted Bennett over Drai? rofl The supposed best defense in the NHL looked like crap. McDavid & Drai walked around who ever they wanted at will. The Flames defense couldn't handle the entire McDavid line what so ever. Even the 2nd and 3rd line got into the zone and spent plenty of time in the Flames end when ever they wanted. It was a sad effort by the Flames and I thought the 3-0 score flattered the Flames as they didn't do anything offensively. It is just the first game but if I am a Flames fan I'd be a touch worried. It wasn't close last night and at times the Oilers looked like they toyed with them.

For the Oilers.
First line: McDavid. My god. It's game 1 but he looked faster, more assertive and he did what he wanted too when he wanted too. At times it looked like when he had the puck he would just decide from time to time "OK, I think I will walk around the Flames defense this shift." Drai was dominate down low and a beast on faceoffs. His passing is SOOO good. Maroon looked good, just needed some finish. That line is SOOO good.

Second line: I thought was 2/3 of it was good. I thought Nuge had some jump at times but I wish he would shoot more. Still struggles on faceoffs as he was the only center below 50%. Lucic got better and better as the game when on. He's still not fast but he seemed a bit faster. The 3rd period he was real good and the McDavid hate trick goal was ALL Lucic. Yamamoto looked like a small, 18 yr old kid crapping his pants in his first game. I think there is a player there, he needs to get a lot stronger but I would send him down as soon as Slep is ready. I thought the Nuge line looked WAY better when Yam was replaced.

Third line: I can see some potential in this line. I thought it looked like a line with 3 guys that haven't played together and don't know each other very well but it looked decent and got better as the game went on. I like Jokinen as a swiss army knife. Won some draws (50%), was scrappy, created some chances. SMART player. Caggulia was being a pest and hitting. Strome looked OK, won some draws (50%), got into the play. If I would give them some advice, shoot more.

4th line: Didn't get a ton of time though when Kassian moved up, he looked good. I like Khaira's game. He was money on draws, did well on the PK, made a few hits. He needs to SHOOT the puck. He had a couple of times in the high shot, traffic in front where he passed up the shot. Keep it simple and shoot. Letestu did what he does best.

Defense:
First pairing. Rock solid. Klefbom was a monster out there and looks like a #1 dman in the making. 9 shots on goal and he missed some too. Larsson looked like a nasty, solid defensively, smart, moved the puck decent, good #2 dman that allows Klefbom to do his thing.

Second pairing: I am sure some spread sheet will say Russell's corsi wasn't good. Well who cares. He played a solid game. 7 blocks, 3 shots, 1 hit while playing solid defense. The Flames generated squat offensively and he was part of the defense core that shut the Flames down cold. I thought he was more assertive with the puck, made some good passes and was way less fire it off the glass like last year. Benning looked good out there. A few too many give aways but was solid. On the second unit PP, he moved the puck around good but he had zero shots. Got to shoot the puck man.

Third pairing: I thought Nurse was good. Physical. Kept it simple and didn't make really any glaring errors. I thought Gryba was good. He is what he is, a 6-7. He won't win a ton of foot races but he does a good job of keeping his angles and did well. Big guy, clears the net, he even had a few chances offensively, just didn't hit the net. I don't want 82 games of Gryba but he can do the job in spot duty.

Talbot. Rock solid. Looks like a top end goalie but it was an easy night.

Moving forward. As good as the line is, I would really like to see Leon centering his own line. The 2 headed monster of McDavid and Leon would be dominant and I still don't know if Nuge is the answer as the #2 center. It's hard to generate offense when you can't win a draw in my opinion. maybe flip flop Leon and Nuge. As mentioned, once Slep is up to speed, I would give him Yamo's spot and send Yamo down. If Benning is going to be on the second unit PP, he needs to shoot more. I thought they moved the puck around well but no one shot the puck. I think I like Jokinen on the second unit PP over Caggulia.

[Updated on: Thu, 05 October 2017 09:58]


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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699653 is a reply to message #699649 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 1111
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 09:30

I was at the game.

For the Flames:
Mike Smith kept them in it as he was pretty good. When I watch the Flames and their forwards, I see nothing special. Gaudreau can be good but to me he's a slightly better Eberle (when Eberle was in his prime) and can go invisible quite easily. I like Monahan but he to me looks like a slightly better version of Nuge in his prime, good but not great. If I was Trevling, I would have added some forward help rather than worry about adding more defense as apart from those 2, the forward ranks look thin. I don't see how a 46 yr old, slow Jagr provides much of a boost but maybe. Remember when there were actual people who wanted Bennett over Drai? rofl The supposed best defense in the NHL looked like crap. McDavid & Drai walked around who ever they wanted at will. The Flames defense couldn't handle the entire McDavid line what so ever. Even the 2nd and 3rd line got into the zone and spent plenty of time in the Flames end when ever they wanted. It was a sad effort by the Flames and I thought the 3-0 score flattered the Flames as they didn't do anything offensively. It is just the first game but if I am a Flames fan I'd be a touch worried. It wasn't close last night and at times the Oilers looked like they toyed with them.

For the Oilers.
First line: McDavid. My god. It's game 1 but he looked faster, more assertive and he did what he wanted too when he wanted too. At times it looked like when he had the puck he would just decide from time to time "OK, I think I will walk around the Flames defense this shift." Drai was dominate down low and a beast on faceoffs. His passing is SOOO good. Maroon looked good, just needed some finish. That line is SOOO good.

Second line: I thought was 2/3 of it was good. I thought Nuge had some jump at times but I wish he would shoot more. Still struggles on faceoffs as he was the only center below 50%. Lucic got better and better as the game when on. He's still not fast but he seemed a bit faster. The period he was real good and the McDavid hate trick goal was ALL Lucic. Yamamoto looked like a small, 18 yr old kid crapping his pants in his first game. I think there is a player there, he needs to get a lot stronger but I would send him down as soon as Slep is ready. I thought the Nuge line looked WAY better when Yam was replaced.

Third line: I can see some potential in this line. I thought it looked like a line with 3 guys that haven't played together and don't know each other very well but it looked decent and got better as the game went on. I like Jokinen as a swiss army knife. Won some draws (50%), was scrappy, created some chances. SMART player. Caggulia was being a pest and hitting. Strome looked OK, won some draws (50%), got into the play. If I would give them some advice, shoot more.

4th line: Didn't get a ton of time though when Kassian moved up, he looked good. I like Khaira's game. He was money on draws, did well on the PK, made a few hits. He needs to SHOOT the puck. He had a couple of times in the high shot, traffic in front where he passed up the shot. Keep it simply and shoot. Letestu did what he does best.

Defense:
First pairing. Rock solid. Klefbom was a monster out there and looks like a #1 dman in the making. 9 shots on goal and he missed some too. Larsson looked like a nasty, solid defensively, smart, moved the puck decent, good #2 dman that allows Klefbom to do his thing.

Second pairing: I am sure some spread sheet will say Russell's corsi wasn't good. Well who cares. He played a solid game. 7 blocks, 3 shots, 1 hit while playing solid defense. The Flames generated squat offensively and he was part of the defense core that shut the Flames down cold. I thought he was more assertive with the puck, made some good passes and was way less fire it off the glass like last year. Benning looked good out there. A few too many give aways but was solid. On the second unit PP, he moved the puck around good but he had zero shots. Got to shoot the puck man.

Third pairing: I thought Nurse was good. Physical. Kept it simple and didn't make really any glaring errors. I thought Gryba was good. He is what he is, a 6-7. He won't win a ton of foot races but he does a good job of keeping his angles and did well. Big guy, clears the net, he even had a few chances offensively, just didn't hit the net. I don't want 82 games of Gryba but he can do the job in spot duty.

Talbot. Rock solid. Looks like a top end goalie but it was an easy night.

Moving forward. As good as the line is, I would really like to see Leon centering his own line. The 2 headed monster of McDavid and Leon would be dominant and I still don't know if Nuge is the answer as the #2 center. It's hard to generate offense when you can't win a draw in my opinion. maybe flip flop Leon and Nuge. As mentioned, once Slep is up to speed, I would give him Yamo's spot and send Yamo down. If Benning is going to be on the second unit PP, he needs to shoot more. I thought they moved the puck around well but no one shot the puck. I think I like Jokinen on the second unit PP over Caggulia.



I am going to circle this date on my calendar as the first time I agree with you 100%!!! lol

I decided to go into this game full open mind. No pre conceived negativity of moves I wish we made, contract dollars I dont like, trades that annoyed me, etc.

I think a real NHL game(or a few) was Yama's reward for doing so well in camp but he clearly had the jitter's and didnt play well. He looked like a different player from preseason.

Gryba is slow but like you said, he is what he is. His angles and positioning seemed better last night. One game I know but it seemed better than last year.


To stay with my positive outlook I have looked at Corsi or any other stats. I didnt even know how many shots Kelf had. I thought the first pairing had a first pairing game. I wasn't as nervous at 1-0 as some as that pairing locked things down.
On that same note I thought Russell had a good game. He still dumped the puck out when he had a pass to make a couple times but that is better than a give away. Overall he seemed to have more poise in our zone when he had the puck.

Talbot and the first line are amazing. I have a McDavid jersey from his rookie year and a Draisaitl orange on the way. I just might have to get a Kassian white next. I have a soft spot for what he has overcome off the ice and love him on the ice. When he moved up to Yama's spot he didnt look out of place at all.

I thought RNH had a very good game defensively. Of course some offense from the middle six would be great but when it was 1-0 he was very noticeable in keeping high danger chances down.



Games left that I have to see Kris Russell in an Oilers jersey=398

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699655 is a reply to message #699653 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 2320
Registered: January 2016

2 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 09:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 09:30

I was at the game.

For the Flames:
Mike Smith kept them in it as he was pretty good. When I watch the Flames and their forwards, I see nothing special. Gaudreau can be good but to me he's a slightly better Eberle (when Eberle was in his prime) and can go invisible quite easily. I like Monahan but he to me looks like a slightly better version of Nuge in his prime, good but not great. If I was Trevling, I would have added some forward help rather than worry about adding more defense as apart from those 2, the forward ranks look thin. I don't see how a 46 yr old, slow Jagr provides much of a boost but maybe. Remember when there were actual people who wanted Bennett over Drai? rofl The supposed best defense in the NHL looked like crap. McDavid & Drai walked around who ever they wanted at will. The Flames defense couldn't handle the entire McDavid line what so ever. Even the 2nd and 3rd line got into the zone and spent plenty of time in the Flames end when ever they wanted. It was a sad effort by the Flames and I thought the 3-0 score flattered the Flames as they didn't do anything offensively. It is just the first game but if I am a Flames fan I'd be a touch worried. It wasn't close last night and at times the Oilers looked like they toyed with them.

For the Oilers.
First line: McDavid. My god. It's game 1 but he looked faster, more assertive and he did what he wanted too when he wanted too. At times it looked like when he had the puck he would just decide from time to time "OK, I think I will walk around the Flames defense this shift." Drai was dominate down low and a beast on faceoffs. His passing is SOOO good. Maroon looked good, just needed some finish. That line is SOOO good.

Second line: I thought was 2/3 of it was good. I thought Nuge had some jump at times but I wish he would shoot more. Still struggles on faceoffs as he was the only center below 50%. Lucic got better and better as the game when on. He's still not fast but he seemed a bit faster. The period he was real good and the McDavid hate trick goal was ALL Lucic. Yamamoto looked like a small, 18 yr old kid crapping his pants in his first game. I think there is a player there, he needs to get a lot stronger but I would send him down as soon as Slep is ready. I thought the Nuge line looked WAY better when Yam was replaced.

Third line: I can see some potential in this line. I thought it looked like a line with 3 guys that haven't played together and don't know each other very well but it looked decent and got better as the game went on. I like Jokinen as a swiss army knife. Won some draws (50%), was scrappy, created some chances. SMART player. Caggulia was being a pest and hitting. Strome looked OK, won some draws (50%), got into the play. If I would give them some advice, shoot more.

4th line: Didn't get a ton of time though when Kassian moved up, he looked good. I like Khaira's game. He was money on draws, did well on the PK, made a few hits. He needs to SHOOT the puck. He had a couple of times in the high shot, traffic in front where he passed up the shot. Keep it simply and shoot. Letestu did what he does best.

Defense:
First pairing. Rock solid. Klefbom was a monster out there and looks like a #1 dman in the making. 9 shots on goal and he missed some too. Larsson looked like a nasty, solid defensively, smart, moved the puck decent, good #2 dman that allows Klefbom to do his thing.

Second pairing: I am sure some spread sheet will say Russell's corsi wasn't good. Well who cares. He played a solid game. 7 blocks, 3 shots, 1 hit while playing solid defense. The Flames generated squat offensively and he was part of the defense core that shut the Flames down cold. I thought he was more assertive with the puck, made some good passes and was way less fire it off the glass like last year. Benning looked good out there. A few too many give aways but was solid. On the second unit PP, he moved the puck around good but he had zero shots. Got to shoot the puck man.

Third pairing: I thought Nurse was good. Physical. Kept it simple and didn't make really any glaring errors. I thought Gryba was good. He is what he is, a 6-7. He won't win a ton of foot races but he does a good job of keeping his angles and did well. Big guy, clears the net, he even had a few chances offensively, just didn't hit the net. I don't want 82 games of Gryba but he can do the job in spot duty.

Talbot. Rock solid. Looks like a top end goalie but it was an easy night.

Moving forward. As good as the line is, I would really like to see Leon centering his own line. The 2 headed monster of McDavid and Leon would be dominant and I still don't know if Nuge is the answer as the #2 center. It's hard to generate offense when you can't win a draw in my opinion. maybe flip flop Leon and Nuge. As mentioned, once Slep is up to speed, I would give him Yamo's spot and send Yamo down. If Benning is going to be on the second unit PP, he needs to shoot more. I thought they moved the puck around well but no one shot the puck. I think I like Jokinen on the second unit PP over Caggulia.



I am going to circle this date on my calendar as the first time I agree with you 100%!!! lol

I decided to go into this game full open mind. No pre conceived negativity of moves I wish we made, contract dollars I dont like, trades that annoyed me, etc.

I think a real NHL game(or a few) was Yama's reward for doing so well in camp but he clearly had the jitter's and didnt play well. He looked like a different player from preseason.

Gryba is slow but like you said, he is what he is. His angles and positioning seemed better last night. One game I know but it seemed better than last year.


To stay with my positive outlook I have looked at Corsi or any other stats. I didnt even know how many shots Kelf had. I thought the first pairing had a first pairing game. I wasn't as nervous at 1-0 as some as that pairing locked things down.
On that same note I thought Russell had a good game. He still dumped the puck out when he had a pass to make a couple times but that is better than a give away. Overall he seemed to have more poise in our zone when he had the puck.

Talbot and the first line are amazing. I have a McDavid jersey from his rookie year and a Draisaitl orange on the way. I just might have to get a Kassian white next. I have a soft spot for what he has overcome off the ice and love him on the ice. When he moved up to Yama's spot he didnt look out of place at all.

I thought RNH had a very good game defensively. Of course some offense from the middle six would be great but when it was 1-0 he was very noticeable in keeping high danger chances down.


Wow. I actually agree with what you said as well. Does anyone know the temperature in hell? Is it freezing over? icon_lol

I really liked the Oilers overall game in general. I don't think the Flames played well but at the same time I'd like to think that part of the reason the Flames struggled to do anything was because the Oilers played that good.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699647 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
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Fun game to watch, and McDavid is amazing.

It was hard to figure out whether the Oilers played great defensively, or the Flames were just off. I didn't notice Gaudreau or Monahan much all night. There weren't a lot of hard saves for Talbot to make. It's only one game, so hard to say one way or the other, but that wasn't an inspired effort by Calgary.

Still concerned with secondary scoring last night. Lots of shots, but not a lot of dangerous chances other than when McDavid's line was on the ice. Playing fourth liners up with the second line is probably not going to change that much. Nugent-Hopkins & co were wasting shots from just inside the blue line, which helps the shot stats and the Corsis, but doesn't often beat an NHL goaltender.

Very frustrating to see the Oilers use Yamamoto for only 6:33 last night. If you are afraid to play him in a tight game, then don't keep him up here. Playing that little, they should have just bought him a ticket if they wanted him to watch the game. I can't really draw any conclusions from what we saw of him, because he played so little all night long. Almost never had a regular shift.

Second powerplay unit looks markedly worse this year. Surprised me to see Jokinen there. Would have thought Yamamoto would make sense on that unit at least, but didn't really get a sniff.

Man, it is wonderful to watch McDavid though...



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699654 is a reply to message #699598 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pseudoreality  is currently offline Pseudoreality
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Man, that was a great game. It had just the right amount of uncertainty that maybe the Flames could sneak one in and then change everything, but their top guys were only out there when McDavid was and spent the entire game trying to catch him.


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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699657 is a reply to message #699654 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Question for anyone that follows and believes in corsi. This is not me bashing it as I would genuinely like and explanation.

According to what 1260 morning show guys said and maybe if someone knows where they can look this up, they can confirm this. Gaurdreau apparently had a corsi of 54% last night. He was -1, had zero shots on goal, the Flames were grossly outplayed, they generated next to nothing offensively. I am not sure if Talbot had to make more than maybe 3 remotely decent saves. The rest where pretty routine.

Same goes for the pairing of Benning and Russell. According to Lowtide this morning, that pairing had a corsi of 40%. Now to his credit, Lowtide said their play did not match the corsi number. As I stated, the Flames generated nothing offensively. They got shut out. It was complete domination by the Oilers. There was little to no zone time for the Flames for the entire game. A goalie always has to be good to get a shut out but that was a pretty easy shut out for Talbot. If Talbot got a shut out by standing on his head, then I could believe in the 40% corsi but he didn't. He might get more dangerous shots in practice than last night.

If what the morning show said was true, how can Gaudreau have a corsi of 54% when he was invisible with no shots on goal and the Russell pairing have a corsi of 40% when the Flames scored no goals and generated nothing offensively? I saw the Oilers defense rarely get hemmed in at all. It was a ton of enter the zone, maybe get a shot attempt or shot on goal from long range or a bad angle, then out it went. I think in the second the Flames didn't get a shot until almost the 10 min mark. The 3rd period when they were trailing, they only got 5 shots on goal and it took till the 5 min mark to get their first one. The Russell pairing allowed some long range shots, some shots from the side but nothing overly dangerous and he had 7 blocks. So if Russell is going to get a bad corsi for letting floaters and side board shots, then I will take that all day long.

So I am just looking for some clarification because the numbers don't watch what I saw on the ice. It was complete domination by the Oilers.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699658 is a reply to message #699657 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 09:28

Question for anyone that follows and believes in corsi. This is not me bashing it as I would genuinely like and explanation.

According to what 1260 morning show guys said and maybe if someone knows where they can look this up, they can confirm this. Gaurdreau apparently had a corsi of 54% last night. He was -1, had zero shots on goal, the Flames were grossly outplayed, they generated next to nothing offensively. I am not sure if Talbot had to make more than maybe 3 remotely decent saves. The rest where pretty routine.

Same goes for the pairing of Benning and Russell. According to Lowtide this morning, that pairing had a corsi of 40%. Now to his credit, Lowtide said their play did not match the corsi number. As I stated, the Flames generated nothing offensively. They got shut out. It was complete domination by the Oilers. There was little to no zone time for the Flames for the entire game. A goalie always has to be good to get a shut out but that was a pretty easy shut out for Talbot. If Talbot got a shut out by standing on his head, then I could believe in the 40% corsi but he didn't. He might get more dangerous shots in practice than last night.

If what the morning show said was true, how can Gaudreau have a corsi of 54% when he was invisible with no shots on goal and the Russell pairing have a corsi of 40% when the Flames scored no goals and generated nothing offensively? I saw the Oilers defense rarely get hemmed in at all. It was a ton of enter the zone, maybe get a shot attempt or shot on goal from long range or a bad angle, then out it went. I think in the second the Flames didn't get a shot until almost the 10 min mark. The 3rd period when they were trailing, they only got 5 shots on goal and it took till the 5 min mark to get their first one. The Russell pairing allowed some long range shots, some shots from the side but nothing overly dangerous and he had 7 blocks. So if Russell is going to get a bad corsi for letting floaters and side board shots, then I will take that all day long.

So I am just looking for some clarification because the numbers don't watch what I saw on the ice. It was complete domination by the Oilers.


naturalstattrick.com is your best bet for game-by-game stats.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699659 is a reply to message #699657 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:28

Question for anyone that follows and believes in corsi. This is not me bashing it as I would genuinely like and explanation.

According to what 1260 morning show guys said and maybe if someone knows where they can look this up, they can confirm this. Gaurdreau apparently had a corsi of 54% last night. He was -1, had zero shots on goal, the Flames were grossly outplayed, they generated next to nothing offensively. I am not sure if Talbot had to make more than maybe 3 remotely decent saves. The rest where pretty routine.

Same goes for the pairing of Benning and Russell. According to Lowtide this morning, that pairing had a corsi of 40%. Now to his credit, Lowtide said their play did not match the corsi number. As I stated, the Flames generated nothing offensively. They got shut out. It was complete domination by the Oilers. There was little to no zone time for the Flames for the entire game. A goalie always has to be good to get a shut out but that was a pretty easy shut out for Talbot. If Talbot got a shut out by standing on his head, then I could believe in the 40% corsi but he didn't. He might get more dangerous shots in practice than last night.

If what the morning show said was true, how can Gaudreau have a corsi of 54% when he was invisible with no shots on goal and the Russell pairing have a corsi of 40% when the Flames scored no goals and generated nothing offensively? I saw the Oilers defense rarely get hemmed in at all. It was a ton of enter the zone, maybe get a shot attempt or shot on goal from long range or a bad angle, then out it went. I think in the second the Flames didn't get a shot until almost the 10 min mark. The 3rd period when they were trailing, they only got 5 shots on goal and it took till the 5 min mark to get their first one. The Russell pairing allowed some long range shots, some shots from the side but nothing overly dangerous and he had 7 blocks. So if Russell is going to get a bad corsi for letting floaters and side board shots, then I will take that all day long.

So I am just looking for some clarification because the numbers don't watch what I saw on the ice. It was complete domination by the Oilers.


The corsi includes shots towards the goal, including shots that miss the net and blocked shots.
The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat, which is exaggerated with a small sample size.
The other thing that can skew it heavily is zone starts. I havent seen those for this game but it can often explain single game or even long term anomalies where a players corsi seems out of wack from the "eye test" of how they played.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699661 is a reply to message #699659 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699664 is a reply to message #699661 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699670 is a reply to message #699664 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.


No, I think you're correct in everything you said. Russell is a perfectly capable NHL defender. My issue with Russell and why I wouldn't have signed him for 4 years, is that when he's on the ice, the offence dries up. Blocking a shot and throwing the puck out to the neutral zone might be a way to prevent scoring chances against, but it doesn't really do much to create the other way.

Just looking at last night, when Russell was on the ice, the Oilers had 17 shot attempts (corsis) against the Flames in 15:40. When Larsson was on the ice, the Oilers had 38 corsis against the Flames, so basically double what happened when Russel was on the ice. Now Russell only played 3:52 with McDavid and Larsson played 7:18 with McDavid so that's going to skew everything, and why you can't really take one game and come to any real conclusions. But if you look at last season, almost every single player (including McDavid) generated significantly less offence when playing with Russell.

Now maybe you're okay with having a guy like that on the team for defending leads and playing a shut-down role. I just wouldn't have given him $4Mx4 a week before free agency even opened.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699671 is a reply to message #699670 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.


No, I think you're correct in everything you said. Russell is a perfectly capable NHL defender. My issue with Russell and why I wouldn't have signed him for 4 years, is that when he's on the ice, the offence dries up. Blocking a shot and throwing the puck out to the neutral zone might be a way to prevent scoring chances against, but it doesn't really do much to create the other way.

Just looking at last night, when Russell was on the ice, the Oilers had 17 shot attempts (corsis) against the Flames in 15:40. When Larsson was on the ice, the Oilers had 38 corsis against the Flames, so basically double what happened when Russel was on the ice. Now Russell only played 3:52 with McDavid and Larsson played 7:18 with McDavid so that's going to skew everything, and why you can't really take one game and come to any real conclusions. But if you look at last season, almost every single player (including McDavid) generated significantly less offence when playing with Russell.

Now maybe you're okay with having a guy like that on the team for defending leads and playing a shut-down role. I just wouldn't have given him $4Mx4 a week before free agency even opened.



The most annoying thing about Russell is that I swear the most fatal flaw of his play style should be correctable.

Think you directed me to @WheatNOil a while back. A charts from him for last game.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLZOpX2UQAAYAY4.jpg

Can see the stark difference in defending style between Russell and a guy like Larsson. Larsson wants to stand you up and stop you around the blue line, and he able to skate well enough to stick with you if you make a move on him. Russell just keeps on backing up, and it's annoying because Russell is actually a very good skater and has a good stick, and seems to have a great fitness level and can play a lot of minutes. But, he just keeps on backing up. At a loss for why he doesn't try to fix that about his game. He's consistently put up stats like this for all his time as an Oiler.

Impressive numbers from Gryba in that chart :) He actually made some nice plays to get pucks from guys. Unfortunately, he would usually follow that up by freezing when looking for a play and the pressure would be right back on top of him before he did anything with the puck. Ah well though, glad he did some good stuff at least.

[Updated on: Thu, 05 October 2017 12:51]


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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699672 is a reply to message #699671 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:49

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.


No, I think you're correct in everything you said. Russell is a perfectly capable NHL defender. My issue with Russell and why I wouldn't have signed him for 4 years, is that when he's on the ice, the offence dries up. Blocking a shot and throwing the puck out to the neutral zone might be a way to prevent scoring chances against, but it doesn't really do much to create the other way.

Just looking at last night, when Russell was on the ice, the Oilers had 17 shot attempts (corsis) against the Flames in 15:40. When Larsson was on the ice, the Oilers had 38 corsis against the Flames, so basically double what happened when Russel was on the ice. Now Russell only played 3:52 with McDavid and Larsson played 7:18 with McDavid so that's going to skew everything, and why you can't really take one game and come to any real conclusions. But if you look at last season, almost every single player (including McDavid) generated significantly less offence when playing with Russell.

Now maybe you're okay with having a guy like that on the team for defending leads and playing a shut-down role. I just wouldn't have given him $4Mx4 a week before free agency even opened.



The most annoying thing about Russell is that I swear the most fatal flaw of his play style should be correctable.

Think you directed me to @WheatNOil a while back. A charts from him for last game.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLZOpX2UQAAYAY4.jpg

Can see the stark difference in defending style between Russell and a guy like Larsson. Larsson wants to stand you up and stop you around the blue line, and he able to skate well enough to stick with you if you make a move on him. Russell just keeps on backing up, and it's annoying because Russell is actually a very good skater and has a good stick, and seems to have a great fitness level and can play a lot of minutes. But, he just keeps on backing up. At a loss for why he doesn't try to fix that about his game. He's consistently put up stats like this for all his time as an Oiler.

Impressive numbers from Gryba in that chart :) He actually made some nice plays to get pucks from guys. Unfortunately, he would usually follow that up by freezing when looking for a play and the pressure would be right back on top of him before he did anything with the puck. Ah well though, glad he did some good stuff at least.

Larsson is 6'3, 210. Russell is 5'10 173. That's 5 inches in height, less reach and 37 lbs difference. How do you expect Russell to play the same style when he is that much smaller? When Yamamoto makes the team full time, do you expect him to bang and crash, be a net front presence and play a power game like Lucic? It's not realistic.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699677 is a reply to message #699672 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 1111
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:01

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:49

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.


No, I think you're correct in everything you said. Russell is a perfectly capable NHL defender. My issue with Russell and why I wouldn't have signed him for 4 years, is that when he's on the ice, the offence dries up. Blocking a shot and throwing the puck out to the neutral zone might be a way to prevent scoring chances against, but it doesn't really do much to create the other way.

Just looking at last night, when Russell was on the ice, the Oilers had 17 shot attempts (corsis) against the Flames in 15:40. When Larsson was on the ice, the Oilers had 38 corsis against the Flames, so basically double what happened when Russel was on the ice. Now Russell only played 3:52 with McDavid and Larsson played 7:18 with McDavid so that's going to skew everything, and why you can't really take one game and come to any real conclusions. But if you look at last season, almost every single player (including McDavid) generated significantly less offence when playing with Russell.

Now maybe you're okay with having a guy like that on the team for defending leads and playing a shut-down role. I just wouldn't have given him $4Mx4 a week before free agency even opened.



The most annoying thing about Russell is that I swear the most fatal flaw of his play style should be correctable.

Think you directed me to @WheatNOil a while back. A charts from him for last game.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLZOpX2UQAAYAY4.jpg

Can see the stark difference in defending style between Russell and a guy like Larsson. Larsson wants to stand you up and stop you around the blue line, and he able to skate well enough to stick with you if you make a move on him. Russell just keeps on backing up, and it's annoying because Russell is actually a very good skater and has a good stick, and seems to have a great fitness level and can play a lot of minutes. But, he just keeps on backing up. At a loss for why he doesn't try to fix that about his game. He's consistently put up stats like this for all his time as an Oiler.

Impressive numbers from Gryba in that chart :) He actually made some nice plays to get pucks from guys. Unfortunately, he would usually follow that up by freezing when looking for a play and the pressure would be right back on top of him before he did anything with the puck. Ah well though, glad he did some good stuff at least.

Larsson is 6'3, 210. Russell is 5'10 173. That's 5 inches in height, less reach and 37 lbs difference. How do you expect Russell to play the same style when he is that much smaller? When Yamamoto makes the team full time, do you expect him to bang and crash, be a net front presence and play a power game like Lucic? It's not realistic.


In fairness, there are lot of smaller defenders who are good at preventing zone entries. You can use your stick, angle a player off, etc.
you dont have to be a crash and bang player or knock a guy off the puck every time to prevent a zone entry.
You can often see players on opposing teams look up and see Russell and almost never dump it in. People carry the puck as far as the want knowing there is no fear that he is going to step up



Games left that I have to see Kris Russell in an Oilers jersey=398

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699679 is a reply to message #699677 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 2320
Registered: January 2016

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PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:01

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:49

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.


No, I think you're correct in everything you said. Russell is a perfectly capable NHL defender. My issue with Russell and why I wouldn't have signed him for 4 years, is that when he's on the ice, the offence dries up. Blocking a shot and throwing the puck out to the neutral zone might be a way to prevent scoring chances against, but it doesn't really do much to create the other way.

Just looking at last night, when Russell was on the ice, the Oilers had 17 shot attempts (corsis) against the Flames in 15:40. When Larsson was on the ice, the Oilers had 38 corsis against the Flames, so basically double what happened when Russel was on the ice. Now Russell only played 3:52 with McDavid and Larsson played 7:18 with McDavid so that's going to skew everything, and why you can't really take one game and come to any real conclusions. But if you look at last season, almost every single player (including McDavid) generated significantly less offence when playing with Russell.

Now maybe you're okay with having a guy like that on the team for defending leads and playing a shut-down role. I just wouldn't have given him $4Mx4 a week before free agency even opened.



The most annoying thing about Russell is that I swear the most fatal flaw of his play style should be correctable.

Think you directed me to @WheatNOil a while back. A charts from him for last game.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLZOpX2UQAAYAY4.jpg

Can see the stark difference in defending style between Russell and a guy like Larsson. Larsson wants to stand you up and stop you around the blue line, and he able to skate well enough to stick with you if you make a move on him. Russell just keeps on backing up, and it's annoying because Russell is actually a very good skater and has a good stick, and seems to have a great fitness level and can play a lot of minutes. But, he just keeps on backing up. At a loss for why he doesn't try to fix that about his game. He's consistently put up stats like this for all his time as an Oiler.

Impressive numbers from Gryba in that chart :) He actually made some nice plays to get pucks from guys. Unfortunately, he would usually follow that up by freezing when looking for a play and the pressure would be right back on top of him before he did anything with the puck. Ah well though, glad he did some good stuff at least.

Larsson is 6'3, 210. Russell is 5'10 173. That's 5 inches in height, less reach and 37 lbs difference. How do you expect Russell to play the same style when he is that much smaller? When Yamamoto makes the team full time, do you expect him to bang and crash, be a net front presence and play a power game like Lucic? It's not realistic.


In fairness, there are lot of smaller defenders who are good at preventing zone entries. You can use your stick, angle a player off, etc.
you dont have to be a crash and bang player or knock a guy off the puck every time to prevent a zone entry.
You can often see players on opposing teams look up and see Russell and almost never dump it in. People carry the puck as far as the want knowing there is no fear that he is going to step up


I don't disagree with you. But from my perspective, the job of the dman in his zone is to limit the amount of dangerous scoring chances and ultimately try to keep the puck out of the net. How they do that, shouldn't matter. However he does it, Russell seems to do that reasonably well.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699680 is a reply to message #699679 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 1111
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 14:16

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:01

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:49

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.


No, I think you're correct in everything you said. Russell is a perfectly capable NHL defender. My issue with Russell and why I wouldn't have signed him for 4 years, is that when he's on the ice, the offence dries up. Blocking a shot and throwing the puck out to the neutral zone might be a way to prevent scoring chances against, but it doesn't really do much to create the other way.

Just looking at last night, when Russell was on the ice, the Oilers had 17 shot attempts (corsis) against the Flames in 15:40. When Larsson was on the ice, the Oilers had 38 corsis against the Flames, so basically double what happened when Russel was on the ice. Now Russell only played 3:52 with McDavid and Larsson played 7:18 with McDavid so that's going to skew everything, and why you can't really take one game and come to any real conclusions. But if you look at last season, almost every single player (including McDavid) generated significantly less offence when playing with Russell.

Now maybe you're okay with having a guy like that on the team for defending leads and playing a shut-down role. I just wouldn't have given him $4Mx4 a week before free agency even opened.



The most annoying thing about Russell is that I swear the most fatal flaw of his play style should be correctable.

Think you directed me to @WheatNOil a while back. A charts from him for last game.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLZOpX2UQAAYAY4.jpg

Can see the stark difference in defending style between Russell and a guy like Larsson. Larsson wants to stand you up and stop you around the blue line, and he able to skate well enough to stick with you if you make a move on him. Russell just keeps on backing up, and it's annoying because Russell is actually a very good skater and has a good stick, and seems to have a great fitness level and can play a lot of minutes. But, he just keeps on backing up. At a loss for why he doesn't try to fix that about his game. He's consistently put up stats like this for all his time as an Oiler.

Impressive numbers from Gryba in that chart :) He actually made some nice plays to get pucks from guys. Unfortunately, he would usually follow that up by freezing when looking for a play and the pressure would be right back on top of him before he did anything with the puck. Ah well though, glad he did some good stuff at least.

Larsson is 6'3, 210. Russell is 5'10 173. That's 5 inches in height, less reach and 37 lbs difference. How do you expect Russell to play the same style when he is that much smaller? When Yamamoto makes the team full time, do you expect him to bang and crash, be a net front presence and play a power game like Lucic? It's not realistic.


In fairness, there are lot of smaller defenders who are good at preventing zone entries. You can use your stick, angle a player off, etc.
you dont have to be a crash and bang player or knock a guy off the puck every time to prevent a zone entry.
You can often see players on opposing teams look up and see Russell and almost never dump it in. People carry the puck as far as the want knowing there is no fear that he is going to step up


I don't disagree with you. But from my perspective, the job of the dman in his zone is to limit the amount of dangerous scoring chances and ultimately try to keep the puck out of the net. How they do that, shouldn't matter. However he does it, Russell seems to do that reasonably well.


Ya, I wasn't disagreeing on Russell's style. Just the comment about crash and bang and him being smaller.
As positive as I was about last nights game, I would still like to see him prevent more controlled zone entries. A better offensive team will take advantage of that often. by the chart above you can see the Flames targeted him often.



Games left that I have to see Kris Russell in an Oilers jersey=398

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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699681 is a reply to message #699680 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently online Adam
Messages: 12017
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 14:21

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 14:16

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:01

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:49

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 12:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.


No, I think you're correct in everything you said. Russell is a perfectly capable NHL defender. My issue with Russell and why I wouldn't have signed him for 4 years, is that when he's on the ice, the offence dries up. Blocking a shot and throwing the puck out to the neutral zone might be a way to prevent scoring chances against, but it doesn't really do much to create the other way.

Just looking at last night, when Russell was on the ice, the Oilers had 17 shot attempts (corsis) against the Flames in 15:40. When Larsson was on the ice, the Oilers had 38 corsis against the Flames, so basically double what happened when Russel was on the ice. Now Russell only played 3:52 with McDavid and Larsson played 7:18 with McDavid so that's going to skew everything, and why you can't really take one game and come to any real conclusions. But if you look at last season, almost every single player (including McDavid) generated significantly less offence when playing with Russell.

Now maybe you're okay with having a guy like that on the team for defending leads and playing a shut-down role. I just wouldn't have given him $4Mx4 a week before free agency even opened.



The most annoying thing about Russell is that I swear the most fatal flaw of his play style should be correctable.

Think you directed me to @WheatNOil a while back. A charts from him for last game.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLZOpX2UQAAYAY4.jpg

Can see the stark difference in defending style between Russell and a guy like Larsson. Larsson wants to stand you up and stop you around the blue line, and he able to skate well enough to stick with you if you make a move on him. Russell just keeps on backing up, and it's annoying because Russell is actually a very good skater and has a good stick, and seems to have a great fitness level and can play a lot of minutes. But, he just keeps on backing up. At a loss for why he doesn't try to fix that about his game. He's consistently put up stats like this for all his time as an Oiler.

Impressive numbers from Gryba in that chart :) He actually made some nice plays to get pucks from guys. Unfortunately, he would usually follow that up by freezing when looking for a play and the pressure would be right back on top of him before he did anything with the puck. Ah well though, glad he did some good stuff at least.

Larsson is 6'3, 210. Russell is 5'10 173. That's 5 inches in height, less reach and 37 lbs difference. How do you expect Russell to play the same style when he is that much smaller? When Yamamoto makes the team full time, do you expect him to bang and crash, be a net front presence and play a power game like Lucic? It's not realistic.


In fairness, there are lot of smaller defenders who are good at preventing zone entries. You can use your stick, angle a player off, etc.
you dont have to be a crash and bang player or knock a guy off the puck every time to prevent a zone entry.
You can often see players on opposing teams look up and see Russell and almost never dump it in. People carry the puck as far as the want knowing there is no fear that he is going to step up


I don't disagree with you. But from my perspective, the job of the dman in his zone is to limit the amount of dangerous scoring chances and ultimately try to keep the puck out of the net. How they do that, shouldn't matter. However he does it, Russell seems to do that reasonably well.


Ya, I wasn't disagreeing on Russell's style. Just the comment about crash and bang and him being smaller.
As positive as I was about last nights game, I would still like to see him prevent more controlled zone entries. A better offensive team will take advantage of that often. by the chart above you can see the Flames targeted him often.



To be fair, a lot of how the defencemen were attacked can be attributed to who they played most against.

The Russell/Benning pairing got a lot of the first line for Calgary, so those are high skilled players who are going to try to control the puck.

Gryba and Nurse played a lot more against third and fourth liners, so they just chip it in around Gryba, in part because they see him as slow and they can go get it but also because the guys he's facing aren't the high skilled forwards.

Gryba did see a fair amount of time with McDavid's crew too, so he was somewhat insulated in that there was good back pressure from McDavid, and the puck was in the Calgary zone almost the whole time.



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 Re: Review: Calgary @ Edmonton (Game #1) [message #699682 is a reply to message #699681 ]
Thu, 05 October 2017 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 14:25

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 14:21

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 14:16

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 13:01

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:14

Goose wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 11:23

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 05 October 2017 10:10


The examples you list here show the flaw in that stat,



I get what you're trying to say here, but I would hesitate to say that it's a flaw in the stat. Corsi is literally just a count of things that happened, exactly like shots or goals. How we interpret those things, especially in really small samples, are where the flaws come in.


Correct me if I am wrong but I believe corsi is strictly a measure of shot attempts for and against on the goal that include what hits the net, what is missed and blocked shots. But I believe it does not differentiate between really high quality shots vs shots that have little chance of scoring. So as an example. If an opposing player undresses the defender and gets off a 15 foot shot in the slot, it's ranked the same as if the opposition gains the zone and floats an unscreened, long wrist shot from just over the blueline that has almost no chance of going. Is that correct?

So if that is the case. I believe a knock on Russell from people who don't like him is he gives up the blueline a bit and allows the opposition to come in at him. Russell is not a big guy, so I don't know if he is capable of standing a guy up at the line and taking on a player one on one a lot. He does block a lot of shots so its obvious that he does it on purpose and has added it as part of his defensive skill set. So if the opposition manages to generate lots of shot attempts against on the goal when Russell is on the ice which would lower his corsi BUT the shots get blocked, the shots go wide because the opposition is trying to avoid the block, the shots are of poor quality so it is an easy save or they are taken from the outside or from a spot that has very little chance of going in, why is that so bad? The point is to not to score. I don't see Russell get completely undressed a ton game to game. Sure it happens the odd time and he gives up the odd good scoring chance but overall it doesn't seem to happen a ton, no dman is perfect and they all give up the odd good scoring chance. I think the Flames have 4 pretty good dmen but they got lit up last night. It happens.

I am not trying to stir the pot or start an argument but when I heard the numbers from last nights game but I was at the game and saw the complete domination by the Oilers, I was baffled. I have a guy in my office who hates Russell and he lists off corsi and giving up the line, all the things I have seen here. Yet for whatever reason, the puck for the most part doesn't go into the net when Russell is on the ice. So I would love it if all the Oilers dominated all the stats possible but at the end of the day, how ever they do it, keep the puck out of the goal. The Oilers defense and Russell could allow a 100 shot attempts on goal but if Talbot barely breaks a sweat for the majority of them, is it really a big deal?

I am just asking.


No, I think you're correct in everything you said. Russell is a perfectly capable NHL defender. My issue with Russell and why I wouldn't have signed him for 4 years, is that when he's on the ice, the offence dries up. Blocking a shot and throwing the puck out to the neutral zone might be a way to prevent scoring chances against, but it doesn't really do much to create the other way.

Just looking at last night, when Russell was on the ice, the Oilers had 17 shot attempts (corsis) against the Flames in 15:40. When Larsson was on the ice, the Oilers had 38 corsis against the Flames, so basically double what happened when Russel was on the ice. Now Russell only played 3:52 with McDavid and Larsson played 7:18 with McDavid so that's going to skew everything, and why you can't really take one game and come to any real conclusions. But if you look at last season, almost every single player (including McDavid) generated significantly less offence when playing with Russell.

Now maybe you're okay with having a guy like that on the team for defending leads and playing a shut-down role. I just wouldn't have given him $4Mx4 a week before free agency even opened.



The most annoying thing about Russell is that I swear the most fatal flaw of his play style should be correctable.

Think you directed me to @WheatNOil a while back. A charts from him for last game.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLZOpX2UQAAYAY4.jpg

Can see the stark difference in defending style between Russell and a guy like Larsson. Larsson wants to stand you up and stop you around the blue line, and he able to skate well enough to stick with you if you make a move on him. Russell just keeps on backing up, and it's annoying because Russell is actually a very good skater and has a good stick, and seems to have a great fitness level and can play a lot of minutes. But, he just keeps on backing up. At a loss for why he doesn't try to fix that about his game. He's consistently put up stats like this for all his time as an Oiler.

Impressive numbers from Gryba in that chart :) He actually made some nice plays to get pucks from guys. Unfortunately, he would usually follow that up by freezing when looking for a play and the pressure would be right back on top of him before he did anything with the puck. Ah well though, glad he did some good stuff at least.

Larsson is 6'3, 210. Russell is 5'10 173. That's 5 inches in height, less reach and 37 lbs difference. How do you expect Russell to play the same style when he is that much smaller? When Yamamoto makes the team full time, do you expect him to bang and crash, be a net front presence and play a power game like Lucic? It's not realistic.


In fairness, there are lot of smaller defenders who are good at preventing zone entries. You can use your stick, angle a player off, etc.
you dont have to be a crash and bang player or knock a guy off the puck every time to prevent a zone entry.
You can often see players on opposing teams look up and see Russell and almost never dump it in. People carry the puck as far as the want knowing there is no fear that he is going to step up


I don't disagree with you. But from my perspective, the job of the dman in his zone is to limit the amount of dangerous scoring chances and ultimately try to keep the puck out of the net. How they do that, shouldn't matter. However he does it, Russell seems to do that reasonably well.


Ya, I wasn't disagreeing on Russell's style. Just the comment about crash and bang and him being smaller.
As positive as I was about last nights game, I would still like to see him prevent more controlled zone entries. A better offensive team will take advantage of that often. by the chart above you can see the Flames targeted him often.



To be fair, a lot of how the defencemen were attacked can be attributed to who they played most against.

The Russell/Benning pairing got a lot of the first line for Calgary, so those are high skilled players who are going to try to control the puck.

Gryba and Nurse played a lot more against third and fourth liners, so they just chip it in around Gryba, in part because they see him as slow and they can go get it but also because the guys he's facing aren't the high skilled forwards.

Gryba did see a fair amount of time with McDavid's crew too, so he was somewhat insulated in that there was good back pressure from McDavid, and the puck was in the Calgary zone almost the whole time.



Good points but I tend to look at pairings.
I dont think it is a coincidence that Klef was targeted more than Larsson, Gryba more than Nurse and Russell more than Benning.



Games left that I have to see Kris Russell in an Oilers jersey=398

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