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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673929 is a reply to message #673927 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Lesterpolyester
Messages: 5
Registered: January 2006
Location: Saskatoon

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ryanc182 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think Taylor Hall is a franchise player. He is a very good player, but not franchise.

I don't love the trade, but I also don't hate it. The last few seasons Hall has been very mediocre on a bad Oilers team. I wish him success in NJ, but I'd temper expectations there as he'll have very little help.

Agreed!

rock

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673928 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673931 is a reply to message #673928 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673933 is a reply to message #673931 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:40

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

I think his potential is kind of hidden by how he's been used and his team situation the last 2 years. You leave a guy at 22 and 23 to just be stuck starting in his own end all night against the best players on a team with very little offensive talent, what kind of production do you expect him to get? Not sure how he ended up +15 on a team with a -24 goal differential while playing all the hardest minutes.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673934 is a reply to message #673933 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:43

NZ Oiler Fan
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Location: Kensington, PEI

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:40

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

I think his potential is kind of hidden by how he's been used and his team situation the last 2 years. You leave a guy at 22 and 23 to just be stuck starting in his own end all night against the best players on a team with very little offensive talent, what kind of production do you expect him to get? Not sure how he ended up +15 on a team with a -24 goal differential while playing all the hardest minutes.

Kinda like Nuge here.
People complaining that he's not putting up the points he was previously when he's been put in a position where he has to focus on defensive play first.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673938 is a reply to message #673934 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:52

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I listened to Hall talking to the Devils media. Clearly disappointed and does not sound happy about the trade. One comment I didn't like about what he said was he felt slighted by the trade and makes it sound like he was screwed. Slighted?? Are we seeing a crack into Hall behind the scenes?

I'm a big Hall fan. Right now I am a bit disappointed and shocked by the trade but I don't think the trading was personal. Hockey is a business and players are a commodity because of it. Hall was an asset. I'm sure Chia would have preferred to trade Yak for Larsson but that wasn't going to happen. To get the deal done, it took Hall unfortunately.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673943 is a reply to message #673938 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:59

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2343
Registered: February 2011

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:52

I listened to Hall talking to the Devils media. Clearly disappointed and does not sound happy about the trade. One comment I didn't like about what he said was he felt slighted by the trade and makes it sound like he was screwed. Slighted?? Are we seeing a crack into Hall behind the scenes?

I'm a big Hall fan. Right now I am a bit disappointed and shocked by the trade but I don't think the trading was personal. Hockey is a business and players are a commodity because of it. Hall was an asset. I'm sure Chia would have preferred to trade Yak for Larsson but that wasn't going to happen. To get the deal done, it took Hall unfortunately.

Chia was looking at the big picture- if he was going to sign Lucic, then there wasn't enough cap space to justify keeping everyone in the current top 6 on the team.

Also, I utterly disagree with those who call Hall a "franchise player"- the Oil picked up a franchise player last year in the draft. Hall was always going to be second fiddle once Connor came along, and he likely didn't feel all that good about it. Did anyone think that Hall was going to become the captain before Connor did? I'm not saying that Hall wasn't a good player for the team- of course he was, but I never considered him an untouchable. Having him leave in return for 2 good d-men and a top winger is what makes this move palatable for me.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673936 is a reply to message #673931 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:50

Adam
Messages: 6825
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

I don't like the suggestion that someone is something that they've never been.

We did this with Peca. Talked about how much he would score as a first line center because he'd been a good scorer in a depth role. Don't bank on what someone might possibly do in a situation they've never been in. Work on the worst case scenario that what you see is what you get.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673954 is a reply to message #673931 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:19

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

This si what always happens after a trade like this, anyone can spin it anyway they want until the puck hits the ice, people hear what they want to hear, in 6 months you'll hate this trade, I already do.

IT WAS UNNECESSARY at this time, for that value.

Its a result of our GM Chiarelli getting drunk and giddy on the riches provided to him, the result of a decade of Oiler fans perseverance and suffering, being lazy, and selling them cheap for a quick reward. Like a kid with too much allowance. Showed an incredible lack of asset management or valuation. Maybe now we know now why Boston fired his ass.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 16:27]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673961 is a reply to message #673954 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:28

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

This si what always happens after a trade like this, anyone can spin it anyway they want until the puck hits the ice, people hear what they want to hear, in 6 months you'll hate this trade, I already do.

IT WAS UNNECESSARY at this time, for that value.

Its a result of our GM Chiarelli getting drunk on the riches provided to him, the result of a decade of Oiler fans perseverance and suffering, being lazy, and selling them cheap for a quick reward. Like a kid with too much allowance. Showed an incredible lack of asset management or valuation. Maybe now we know now why Boston fired his ass.

I don't know. I think in 6 months we will be much more over this trade than we are now. I would never dispute that we didn't get fair value, but the Oilers are a better team now and we will win more because of this trade. And we'll be even better if we do sign Lucic (ignoring cap implications for the sake of argument ;) )

It sucks, and I don't like how Chia went about it and there may have been many better ways to do it, but filling that black hole in the lineup was absolutely necessary for the Oilers to not be terrible again. We traded from an area of strength to fill an area that had a big fat 0 beside it.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673979 is a reply to message #673961 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:55

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

This si what always happens after a trade like this, anyone can spin it anyway they want until the puck hits the ice, people hear what they want to hear, in 6 months you'll hate this trade, I already do.

IT WAS UNNECESSARY at this time, for that value.

Its a result of our GM Chiarelli getting drunk on the riches provided to him, the result of a decade of Oiler fans perseverance and suffering, being lazy, and selling them cheap for a quick reward. Like a kid with too much allowance. Showed an incredible lack of asset management or valuation. Maybe now we know now why Boston fired his ass.

I don't know. I think in 6 months we will be much more over this trade than we are now. I would never dispute that we didn't get fair value, but the Oilers are a better team now and we will win more because of this trade. And we'll be even better if we do sign Lucic (ignoring cap implications for the sake of argument ;) )

It sucks, and I don't like how Chia went about it and there may have been many better ways to do it, but filling that black hole in the lineup was absolutely necessary for the Oilers to not be terrible again. We traded from an area of strength to fill an area that had a big fat 0 beside it.

How can you say the Oilers will win more now because of adding Larson? I don't think you can. They would have won more anyway with a healthy, and another year older, defense corp. Plus adding Puljujarvi, and potentially Lucic. That forward lineup was incredible. Now other teams can focus entirely on McD's line, before they had Hall to contend with driving another line. He partially plugged one hole, and opened another gaping one.

Chiarelli basing his management strategy on a lot of hopes and prayers. Brutal.
Even if Larson does improve, Chiarelli doesn't know that, can't know that, he took a big risk when none was required. Those types of off the cuff management decisions are reminiscent of the worst GM's that have gone through this league. Ask yourself, if Lou Lamarello was Oiler GM, do you think he trades Hall for so little, or at all?

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673984 is a reply to message #673979 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:59

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:55

How can you say the Oilers will win more now because of adding Larson? I don't think you can. They would have won more anyway with a healthy, and another year older, defense corp. Plus adding Puljujarvi, and potentially Lucic. That forward lineup was incredible. Now other teams can focus entirely on McD's line, before they had Hall to contend with driving another line. He partially plugged one hole, and opened another gaping one.

Chiarelli basing his management strategy on a lot of hopes and prayers. Brutal.
Even if Larson does improve, Chiarelli doesn't know that, can't know that, he took a big risk when none was required. Those types of off the cuff management decisions are reminiscent of the worst GM's that have gone through this league. Ask yourself, if Lou Lamarello was Oiler GM, do you think he trades Hall for so little, or at all?

Exactly.

And people keep talking about the potential for Larsson...Let's be honest, he's not that much younger than Hall. How many defencemen can you find that were 18 point defencemen at 23 who became 35-40 point defencemen later on? And 35-40 points is pretty pedestrian for a top guy.

If it had been Hall for Hamonic, I'd have been similarly outraged. The Oilers show just no clue, no clue at all, about the relative value of players.

That trade record for Chiarelli is looking pretty damn spotty right now.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673986 is a reply to message #673979 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:01

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

This si what always happens after a trade like this, anyone can spin it anyway they want until the puck hits the ice, people hear what they want to hear, in 6 months you'll hate this trade, I already do.

IT WAS UNNECESSARY at this time, for that value.

Its a result of our GM Chiarelli getting drunk on the riches provided to him, the result of a decade of Oiler fans perseverance and suffering, being lazy, and selling them cheap for a quick reward. Like a kid with too much allowance. Showed an incredible lack of asset management or valuation. Maybe now we know now why Boston fired his ass.

I don't know. I think in 6 months we will be much more over this trade than we are now. I would never dispute that we didn't get fair value, but the Oilers are a better team now and we will win more because of this trade. And we'll be even better if we do sign Lucic (ignoring cap implications for the sake of argument ;) )

It sucks, and I don't like how Chia went about it and there may have been many better ways to do it, but filling that black hole in the lineup was absolutely necessary for the Oilers to not be terrible again. We traded from an area of strength to fill an area that had a big fat 0 beside it.

How can you say the Oilers will win more now because of adding Larson? I don't think you can. They would have won more anyway with a healthy, and another year older, defense corp. Plus adding Puljujarvi, and potentially Lucic. That forward lineup was incredible. Now other teams can focus entirely on McD's line, before they had Hall to contend with driving another line. He partially plugged one hole, and opened another gaping one.

Chiarelli basing his management strategy on a lot of hopes and prayers. Brutal.
Even if Larson does improve, Chiarelli doesn't know that, can't know that, he took a big risk when none was required. Those types of off the cuff management decisions are reminiscent of the worst GM's that have gone through this league. Ask yourself, if Lou Lamarello was Oiler GM, do you think he trades Hall for so little, or at all?

I honestly think we are a better team after this trade. No joke. That's my opinion. It's like trying to run with 1 leg. You can work out that leg you have as much as you want and make it the most powerful leg on the planet, you're still gonna get your butt kicked by any guy running with 2 legs. Without a doubt we lost the trade, but the team is more able to actually compete in the NHL now.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674055 is a reply to message #673979 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 20:23

K.McC#24
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Location: ALBERTA

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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:55

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 14:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

This si what always happens after a trade like this, anyone can spin it anyway they want until the puck hits the ice, people hear what they want to hear, in 6 months you'll hate this trade, I already do.

IT WAS UNNECESSARY at this time, for that value.

Its a result of our GM Chiarelli getting drunk on the riches provided to him, the result of a decade of Oiler fans perseverance and suffering, being lazy, and selling them cheap for a quick reward. Like a kid with too much allowance. Showed an incredible lack of asset management or valuation. Maybe now we know now why Boston fired his ass.

I don't know. I think in 6 months we will be much more over this trade than we are now. I would never dispute that we didn't get fair value, but the Oilers are a better team now and we will win more because of this trade. And we'll be even better if we do sign Lucic (ignoring cap implications for the sake of argument ;) )

It sucks, and I don't like how Chia went about it and there may have been many better ways to do it, but filling that black hole in the lineup was absolutely necessary for the Oilers to not be terrible again. We traded from an area of strength to fill an area that had a big fat 0 beside it.

How can you say the Oilers will win more now because of adding Larson? I don't think you can. They would have won more anyway with a healthy, and another year older, defense corp. Plus adding Puljujarvi, and potentially Lucic. That forward lineup was incredible. Now other teams can focus entirely on McD's line, before they had Hall to contend with driving another line. He partially plugged one hole, and opened another gaping one.

Chiarelli basing his management strategy on a lot of hopes and prayers. Brutal.
Even if Larson does improve, Chiarelli doesn't know that, can't know that, he took a big risk when none was required. Those types of off the cuff management decisions are reminiscent of the worst GM's that have gone through this league. Ask yourself, if Lou Lamarello was Oiler GM, do you think he trades Hall for so little, or at all?

Give Chiarelli more time. I think he's about to thin the team out at center as well, and roll with 1 sophomore center and 1 who's basically a sophomore center in the top 6. RNH for Dumba, or more likely, RNH + for Dumba? Meanwhile, the $6 million contract that probably SHOULD have been traded will still be here.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674096 is a reply to message #673931 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 22:08

Prince Albert 1
Messages: 33
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:33

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Listening to the Devils play by play guy, he said Larsson is a legit, top pairing dman. Said he is easily a 30-35 pt guy. Compared him to Hamonic.

I'm still a little freaked out by the trade but the Devils guy calmed me down a tiny bit. If Larsson can be a 30+ point guy while playing 25 good, reliable mins a night, then its an OK trade. I PRAY he does that.

I knew a shake up was coming, I just didn't expect it to be Hal.

For the record I wouldn't have traded Hall for Hamonic either.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673937 is a reply to message #673928 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:50

Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:28

Chia said he expects Larsson to be a 1st pairing D next year. Expectations set.

Well, at least there's one positive for today - Chiarelli didn't say he was a Norris contender...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673939 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:56

NetBOG
Messages: 2861
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

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I wasn't very enthused with this trade, but at least I can see what the Oilers are doing.

Larsson seems like a defenceman ready to step into a much bigger role. Contrary to what some will say, players do get better after the age of 21. Hopefully he embraces the challenge and continues to grow.

Hall is a very good player, but it doesn't ever fell like he's unstoppable or capable of carrying the team when they need it.

Larsson is also on a great contract. Signed for a year longer than Hall and makes almost $2 million less. This allows the Oilers to bring in somebody else to help.

Again, not happy with the trade, I think they should have got something along with Larsson, but I can see where the Oilers are coming from.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 15:58]

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673940 is a reply to message #673939 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:57

Magnum
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Where were you when Taylor Hall was traded?

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674139 is a reply to message #673940 ]	Thu, 30 June 2016 08:00

g2k
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Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:57

Where were you when Taylor Hall was traded?

Henday SB offramp to Baseline WB.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673949 is a reply to message #673939 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:09

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:56

I wasn't very enthused with this trade, but at least I can see what the Oilers are doing.

Larsson seems like a defenceman ready to step into a much bigger role. Contrary to what some will say, players do get better after the age of 21. Hopefully he embraces the challenge and continues to grow.

Hall is a very good player, but it doesn't ever fell like he's unstoppable or capable of carrying the team when they need it.

Larsson is also on a great contract. Signed for a year longer than Hall and makes almost $2 million less. This allows the Oilers to bring in somebody else to help.

Again, not happy with the trade, I think they should have got something along with Larsson, but I can see where the Oilers are coming from.

Who ever said players don't improve after 21?

I think all anyone is saying is that you don't trade a definite for a maybe.

You know Hall is a star player and one of the best wingers in the game. Larsson MIGHT become a decent top pairing defenceman. It's UNLIKELY that he'll ever become a star player and you can see that with Chiarelli already conceding that they still need to get an offensive defenceman.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673942 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 15:58

oiler8
Messages: 5
Registered: August 2005
Location: Wetaskiwin

No Cups

I agree with Scott Cullen:

Statistically Speaking: Oilers don't get nearly enough for Hall

Verdict: This is a landslide win for New Jersey. Even if the Edmonton Oilers are, as rumoured, poised to sign left winger Milan Lucic as a free agent, there is no justification for the Oilers to only get Larsson in return for Hall. Strictly in terms of asset management, it’s unacceptable.

http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-oilers-don-t-get-ne arly-enough-for-hall-1.517957

Unbelieveable. I usually don't weigh in on trades, but this one is stupid. TERRIBLE.
MAYBE down the road it might be alright, but now it is dumb. Regardless of what a player might become- you trade for what a player is NOW.

I can only hope some nice surprise move shows up in the next few days that makes up for this abomination.

Looking through vomit-colored glasses right now.

oiler8

"A Calgary Flames fan is like a Slinky. It isn't much good for anything, but it does bring a smile to your face when you push it down a set of stairs."

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673948 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:06

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

I'm beyond pissed. Top 5 for top 30, or LESS !!!.
You blow chunks Chiarelli.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 16:10]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673956 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:21

NetBOG
Messages: 2861
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673959 is a reply to message #673956 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:26

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:21

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

Key word "seems".

Chiarelli and the Oiler brass can put as much lipstick on this pig as they want, it's still a stinking pig.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673963 is a reply to message #673959 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:30

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:26

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:21

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

Key word "seems".

Chiarelli and the Oiler brass can put as much lipstick on this pig as they want, it's still a stinking pig.

I think you can pretty confidently say Larsson knows how to play D. He played the hardest minutes NJ could have possibly given him all last year 22+ mins a night and ended up +15 on a -24 goal differential team. He can play in his own end. It's the offensive ability that is the question mark.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673964 is a reply to message #673963 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:32

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:26

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:21

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

Key word "seems".

Chiarelli and the Oiler brass can put as much lipstick on this pig as they want, it's still a stinking pig.

I think you can pretty confidently say Larsson knows how to play D. He played the hardest minutes NJ could have possibly given him all last year 22+ mins a night and ended up +15 on a -24 goal differential team. He can play in his own end. It's the offensive ability that is the question mark.

But his quality of teammates was also very high...

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2016 17:14]

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673965 is a reply to message #673964 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:35

Kr55
Messages: 9614
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:32

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 16:26

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:21

I am happy they didn't acquire a turnstile to try and fix things. Larsson seems to be a D-man that actually knows how to play defence.

Key word "seems".

Chiarelli and the Oiler brass can put as much lipstick on this pig as they want, it's still a stinking pig.

I think you can pretty confidently say Larsson knows how to play D. He played the hardest minutes NJ could have possibly given him all last year 22+ mins a night and ended up +15 on a -24 goal differential team. He can play in his own end. It's the offensive ability that is the question mark.

But his quality of teammates was also very high...

http://public.tableau.com/views/PUCv2_0/PlayerUsageChartTable?:embed=y&:display_count=no

I see it as very low:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=11&s=15 &f1=2015_s&f2=5v5&f5=N.J&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+2 9+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67+11+12+13+14+15+16#

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673960 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:28

vsove
Messages: 66
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

On the bright side, we did get rid of the final remaining player who publicly said that Eakins was a good coach.

smash

smash

No Mo' Lowe | Fire McLellan | Fire everyone.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673970 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:37

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

No Cups

Can whoever posted the ridiculously long link that broke this thread please delete it?????!!!!!

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673981 is a reply to message #673970 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:56

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Skoobz wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:37

Can whoever posted the ridiculously long link that broke this thread please delete it?????!!!!!

Magnum???

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673974 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:39

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Other positives?

Chiarelli has now made the Seguin trade look amazing in comparison.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673987 is a reply to message #673974 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:02

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:39

Other positives?

Chiarelli has now made the Seguin trade look amazing in comparison.

Chiarelli makes Mike Milbury look like Lou Lamoriello.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673980 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:56

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

I keep trying to think when I've been this disappointed about an Oilers move before. There's the Gretzky deal...that sort of numbed me to many of the others that followed.

The day we traded Weight for Hecht and Reasoner was up there too. One of Lowe's first moves I think. So bad, but at least you could believe it was all about the money he'd eventually get paid (although he wasn't yet at his free agency). I was test driving a car that day.

This one is maybe worse than even the Weight one. At least there we got multiple pieces and I was young enough to buy in to the thought that those guys could develop in to the next Doug Weight...Reasoner had put up big numbers in junior after all...

I don't know how you say yes to that. He'd have been better doing no trades at all this summer than trading Hall for Larsson.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673983 is a reply to message #673980 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 16:58

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3911
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 15:56

I keep trying to think when I've been this disappointed about an Oilers move before. There's the Gretzky deal...that sort of numbed me to many of the others that followed.

The day we traded Weight for Hecht and Reasoner was up there too. One of Lowe's first moves I think. So bad, but at least you could believe it was all about the money he'd eventually get paid (although he wasn't yet at his free agency). I was test driving a car that day.

This one is maybe worse than even the Weight one. At least there we got multiple pieces and I was young enough to buy in to the thought that those guys could develop in to the next Doug Weight...Reasoner had put up big numbers in junior after all...

I don't know how you say yes to that. He'd have been better doing no trades at all this summer than trading Hall for Larsson.

Exactly.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673992 is a reply to message #673983 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:16

halfafrog
Messages: 41
Registered: March 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

No Cups

I'm definitely in the minority but I like the trade.

a) This is McDavid's team. Not Hall's. That failed experiment ended last year.

b) Hall is older than Larsson, and D men take longer to develop

c) Wingers. I'm not a GM but if I was, wingers come after centers and D men. A strong center is my #1 priority and I want 3-4 strong centers if possible. I think we have 3 centers we can keep for quite a while. Centers play more D, and O and have to work very hard at both ends. We improved our D here and we kept 3 great centers.

d) How many playoff games has what some are calling the best left wing in hockey played? oh yeah, 0. Larsson has played 28.....

e) Larsson has played in the Stanley Cup Finals. That's right. More games than the entire core, if not more than all of last years team.

f) I like the 2 Swedes on D, Klefbom (may he stay healthy) and Larsson. I think thats a big improvement over last years team if they hopefully both are healthy all year.

g) This opens up cap room.

h) I was never sold on Hall's hockey sense so much as his raw talent. Though I liked Hall over Seguin early in his career, in retrospect Seguin seemed to mature and I would rather have had the center the last few years.

i) the little clique. Great that Hall thought he was the second coming of Bobby Hull but if you aren't a leader, how does that help the team? Why did Yaks always feel on the outside? Its not exactly news. A real leader makes everyone feel they are part fo the team. Note, I didn't say Hall was the issue, I said a real leader makes everyone feel welcomed and he should have gone out of his way if public perception pointed otherwise to prove it wasn't the case.

j) what has this core done/won? Nothing. Enough said. It needed to be broken up, including the so called hub of it all. Regardless of talent level.

k) This is McDavid's team. Especially not that Hall is gone.

l) Right handed D men are like finding a unicorn at the Vostok Research Station. A rare find indeed.

m) The cap space helps us fill out a more well rounded team.

n) Lets see how this team looks in the fall.

In the end, are we worse than the team that finished 30th, 29th, and what peaked at 26th or something with Hall leading the team....to nowhere? Change was needed.

So this is what hope feels like?

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #674047 is a reply to message #673992 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 19:52

Boniman
Messages: 25
Registered: August 2005
Location: In your mom's room

No Cups

halfafrog wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:16

I'm definitely in the minority but I like the trade.

a) This is McDavid's team. Not Hall's. That failed experiment ended last year.

b) Hall is older than Larsson, and D men take longer to develop

c) Wingers. I'm not a GM but if I was, wingers come after centers and D men. A strong center is my #1 priority and I want 3-4 strong centers if possible. I think we have 3 centers we can keep for quite a while. Centers play more D, and O and have to work very hard at both ends. We improved our D here and we kept 3 great centers.

d) How many playoff games has what some are calling the best left wing in hockey played? oh yeah, 0. Larsson has played 28.....

e) Larsson has played in the Stanley Cup Finals. That's right. More games than the entire core, if not more than all of last years team.

f) I like the 2 Swedes on D, Klefbom (may he stay healthy) and Larsson. I think thats a big improvement over last years team if they hopefully both are healthy all year.

g) This opens up cap room.

h) I was never sold on Hall's hockey sense so much as his raw talent. Though I liked Hall over Seguin early in his career, in retrospect Seguin seemed to mature and I would rather have had the center the last few years.

i) the little clique. Great that Hall thought he was the second coming of Bobby Hull but if you aren't a leader, how does that help the team? Why did Yaks always feel on the outside? Its not exactly news. A real leader makes everyone feel they are part fo the team. Note, I didn't say Hall was the issue, I said a real leader makes everyone feel welcomed and he should have gone out of his way if public perception pointed otherwise to prove it wasn't the case.

j) what has this core done/won? Nothing. Enough said. It needed to be broken up, including the so called hub of it all. Regardless of talent level.

k) This is McDavid's team. Especially not that Hall is gone.

l) Right handed D men are like finding a unicorn at the Vostok Research Station. A rare find indeed.

m) The cap space helps us fill out a more well rounded team.

n) Lets see how this team looks in the fall.

In the end, are we worse than the team that finished 30th, 29th, and what peaked at 26th or something with Hall leading the team....to nowhere? Change was needed.

I agree. We were spinning our tires.

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673990 is a reply to message #673755 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:05

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Funny thing - in deleting Hall off their website, the Oilers have deleted his stats line for 2015-16 too:

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/stats.htm?season=20152016

According to this, Leon Draisaitl was the top scoring Oiler with 51 points...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673993 is a reply to message #673990 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:17

Magnum
Messages: 839
Registered: June 2009
Location: Rogers' Arena > Banff

No Cups

A guy in my office, that I typically refer to as Douche Bag Steve, said that Hall got traded because he has a coke problem. Douche Bag Steve knows, he has season tickets.

Sadly, that's the best consolation I've found so far on this. cry

cry

2015/2016 - This Kool-Aid tastes like McDavid flavoured Drain-O.
2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
2017/2018 - I'm drinking this Kool-Aid, in hopes that it's Drain-O.
2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673995 is a reply to message #673993 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:22

eedok
Messages: 21
Registered: March 2010
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:17

A guy in my office, that I typically refer to as Douche Bag Steve, said that Hall got traded because he has a coke problem. Douche Bag Steve knows, he has season tickets.

Sadly, that's the best consolation I've found so far on this. cry

cry

The best consolation I've heard was this is the 2nd time Chiarelli has been involved in a trade involving a top LW and an unproven defenceman, when he was an assistant in Ottawa when they traded Yashin for Chara(though they got more in that deal, but it's hard to trade with Milbury these days)

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673996 is a reply to message #673995 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:26

Adam
Messages: 6825
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

eedok wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:22

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:17

A guy in my office, that I typically refer to as Douche Bag Steve, said that Hall got traded because he has a coke problem. Douche Bag Steve knows, he has season tickets.

Sadly, that's the best consolation I've found so far on this. cry

cry

The best consolation I've heard was this is the 2nd time Chiarelli has been involved in a trade involving a top LW and an unproven defenceman, when he was an assistant in Ottawa when they traded Yashin for Chara(though they got more in that deal, but it's hard to trade with Milbury these days)

Ottawa also managed to get the second overall pick in the upcoming draft in that one...who turned out to be Spezza.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Oilers Trade Hall to Devils for Larsson [message #673998 is a reply to message #673996 ]	Wed, 29 June 2016 17:31

NetBOG
Messages: 2861
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:26

eedok wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:22

Magnum wrote on Wed, 29 June 2016 17:17

A guy in my office, that I typically refer to as Douche Bag Steve, said that Hall got traded because he has a coke problem. Douche Bag Steve knows, he has season tickets.

Sadly, that's the best consolation I've found so far on this. cry

cry

The best consolation I've heard was this is the 2nd time Chiarelli has been involved in a trade involving a top LW and an unproven defenceman, when he was an assistant in Ottawa when they traded Yashin for Chara(though they got more in that deal, but it's hard to trade with Milbury these days)

Ottawa also managed to get the second overall pick in the upcoming draft in that one...who turned out to be Spezza.

I was working in Ottawa when the Yashin trade was done. It felt much the same in Ottawa then as it does in Edmonton today.

Sometimes when things look bad, they work out just fine.

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