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 More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673577]
Tue, 28 June 2016 10:21 Go to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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From Jim Matheson's twitter today:

- Dumba for RNH (although he does concede Oilers need something else). Says Dumba is exciting, offensive RH shooter for PP). That's debatable. Dumba had 26 points last year. I would look at him, and definitely take him over Brodin at this point, but I don't give up Nuge for him. That's a huge overpay.
- Thinks Oilers are looking at trades for Sekera if they can find takers for his deal.
- Says Fayne is up for grabs too but hard deal to trade.

He's right about Fayne...it's a tough deal to get someone to take, and even tougher given the righty/lefty issue balance that Chiarelli is seeking. If you could move Fayne, it opens up the possibility of re-signing Gryba for cheap.

But the Sekera thing just makes me wonder where Matheson gets this stuff now. The defence was not good last year, but Sekera was the best defender by a mile. If the Oilers trade him away, it means we have even more holes to fill on an already porous defence.

The only way Sekera goes is if he's a key piece of a larger deal that brings probably two defencemen back the other way. I don't see it happening.

[Updated on: Tue, 28 June 2016 10:36]


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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673579 is a reply to message #673577 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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Matty needs to put himself out to pasture.
Nuge for Dumba is hella dumb-a.
Sekera was our best D, not even close, and our D is anemic already.
Fayne? meh



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673582 is a reply to message #673579 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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nullterm wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 10:33

Matty needs to put himself out to pasture.
Nuge for Dumba is hella dumb-a.
Sekera was our best D, not even close, and our D is anemic already.
Fayne? meh


If they want to talk a package around Pouliot or Yakupov for Dumba, I'm all ears. Nugent-Hopkins though? It's ridiculous.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673584 is a reply to message #673579 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Meanwhile Rishaug is taking on media guys like Wyshynski and Bruce Arthur, saying that if we get Lucic then we can trade away Taylor Hall for a defenceman.

Sorry, you don't trade Hall for a defenceman unless he's a top-5 in the league defenceman. And none of those guys are likely to get traded.

The list of players I'd give up Hall for is incredibly short - Doughty, Josi, Subban, maybe Pietrangelo.

I probably don't trade him for Burns. I don't trade him for Weber or Seabrook. I'd consider Keith, but you're giving up a lot of years and Keith has a lot of hard miles on him. Maybe. Probably not for Faulk.

Ekblad for sure. Hedman if he came with an extension.

Really, that's about it.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673585 is a reply to message #673584 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 10:59

Meanwhile Rishaug is taking on media guys like Wyshynski and Bruce Arthur, saying that if we get Lucic then we can trade away Taylor Hall for a defenceman.

Sorry, you don't trade Hall for a defenceman unless he's a top-5 in the league defenceman. And none of those guys are likely to get traded.

The list of players I'd give up Hall for is incredibly short - Doughty, Josi, Subban, maybe Pietrangelo.

I probably don't trade him for Burns. I don't trade him for Weber or Seabrook. I'd consider Keith, but you're giving up a lot of years and Keith has a lot of hard miles on him. Maybe. Probably not for Faulk.

Ekblad for sure. Hedman if he came with an extension.

Really, that's about it.


You ship off Pouliot if you sign Lucic. Not Hall. Ebs and Nuge and next years 1st go before Hall, and those 3 pieces should be a plenty good start to get a good D.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673591 is a reply to message #673584 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 10:59

Meanwhile Rishaug is taking on media guys like Wyshynski and Bruce Arthur, saying that if we get Lucic then we can trade away Taylor Hall for a defenceman.

Sorry, you don't trade Hall for a defenceman unless he's a top-5 in the league defenceman. And none of those guys are likely to get traded.

The list of players I'd give up Hall for is incredibly short - Doughty, Josi, Subban, maybe Pietrangelo.

I probably don't trade him for Burns. I don't trade him for Weber or Seabrook. I'd consider Keith, but you're giving up a lot of years and Keith has a lot of hard miles on him. Maybe. Probably not for Faulk.

Ekblad for sure. Hedman if he came with an extension.

Really, that's about it.


Yeah, I don't understand this from people.

Signing Milan Lucic is one thing. We can debate the merits of that. But it has absolutely nothing to do with Taylor Hall. Nothing. Honestly, it has to do with Benoit Pouliot, because he's only $2M less than Hall, and you don't know where he would play in the lineup anymore.

Hall is not untradeable, but it would take one of the very best defensemen in the league for me to move him. Your list is pretty close to guys I'd be willing to make that move for. This Hamonic or Severson or whatever business is absurd (and I say this as someone who would welcome either Hamonic or Severson on this team... for the right price).



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673592 is a reply to message #673584 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 09:59

Meanwhile Rishaug is taking on media guys like Wyshynski and Bruce Arthur, saying that if we get Lucic then we can trade away Taylor Hall for a defenceman.

Sorry, you don't trade Hall for a defenceman unless he's a top-5 in the league defenceman. And none of those guys are likely to get traded.

The list of players I'd give up Hall for is incredibly short - Doughty, Josi, Subban, maybe Pietrangelo.

I probably don't trade him for Burns. I don't trade him for Weber or Seabrook. I'd consider Keith, but you're giving up a lot of years and Keith has a lot of hard miles on him. Maybe. Probably not for Faulk.

Ekblad for sure. Hedman if he came with an extension.

Really, that's about it.


Sounds good to me! Although I would take Burns for Hall.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673593 is a reply to message #673592 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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nullterm wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 11:35

Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 09:59

Meanwhile Rishaug is taking on media guys like Wyshynski and Bruce Arthur, saying that if we get Lucic then we can trade away Taylor Hall for a defenceman.

Sorry, you don't trade Hall for a defenceman unless he's a top-5 in the league defenceman. And none of those guys are likely to get traded.

The list of players I'd give up Hall for is incredibly short - Doughty, Josi, Subban, maybe Pietrangelo.

I probably don't trade him for Burns. I don't trade him for Weber or Seabrook. I'd consider Keith, but you're giving up a lot of years and Keith has a lot of hard miles on him. Maybe. Probably not for Faulk.

Ekblad for sure. Hedman if he came with an extension.

Really, that's about it.


Sounds good to me! Although I would take Burns for Hall.


He's UFA next year and 31...if he was 5 years younger, I'd do it, but I would have big reservations now. It would take a long deal to get him to sign an extension, and who knows what he looks like 5 or 6 more years down the road.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673594 is a reply to message #673593 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently online nullterm
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 10:40

nullterm wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 11:35

Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 09:59

Meanwhile Rishaug is taking on media guys like Wyshynski and Bruce Arthur, saying that if we get Lucic then we can trade away Taylor Hall for a defenceman.

Sorry, you don't trade Hall for a defenceman unless he's a top-5 in the league defenceman. And none of those guys are likely to get traded.

The list of players I'd give up Hall for is incredibly short - Doughty, Josi, Subban, maybe Pietrangelo.

I probably don't trade him for Burns. I don't trade him for Weber or Seabrook. I'd consider Keith, but you're giving up a lot of years and Keith has a lot of hard miles on him. Maybe. Probably not for Faulk.

Ekblad for sure. Hedman if he came with an extension.

Really, that's about it.


Sounds good to me! Although I would take Burns for Hall.


He's UFA next year and 31...if he was 5 years younger, I'd do it, but I would have big reservations now. It would take a long deal to get him to sign an extension, and who knows what he looks like 5 or 6 more years down the road.


* conditional upon Burns signing extension



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673630 is a reply to message #673584 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 09:59

Meanwhile Rishaug is taking on media guys like Wyshynski and Bruce Arthur, saying that if we get Lucic then we can trade away Taylor Hall for a defenceman.

Sorry, you don't trade Hall for a defenceman unless he's a top-5 in the league defenceman. And none of those guys are likely to get traded.

The list of players I'd give up Hall for is incredibly short - Doughty, Josi, Subban, maybe Pietrangelo.

I probably don't trade him for Burns. I don't trade him for Weber or Seabrook. I'd consider Keith, but you're giving up a lot of years and Keith has a lot of hard miles on him. Maybe. Probably not for Faulk.

Ekblad for sure. Hedman if he came with an extension.

Really, that's about it.


I would expand that list to Karlsson for sure, and OEL.

I don't think Hall is quite at "Norris trophy or bust" value. He has not had a 30 goal season yet, and is coming off of an underwhelming seasons of 38 and 65 points. So if you can get a very good number one D for him, but not necessarily a Norris guy, I think that is fair value. Pietrangelo, OEL, Faulk...I am listening. I am pushing everyone else before Hall, but I think we tend to overvalue him a bit.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673637 is a reply to message #673630 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 15:43 Go to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 15:02

Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 09:59

Meanwhile Rishaug is taking on media guys like Wyshynski and Bruce Arthur, saying that if we get Lucic then we can trade away Taylor Hall for a defenceman.

Sorry, you don't trade Hall for a defenceman unless he's a top-5 in the league defenceman. And none of those guys are likely to get traded.

The list of players I'd give up Hall for is incredibly short - Doughty, Josi, Subban, maybe Pietrangelo.

I probably don't trade him for Burns. I don't trade him for Weber or Seabrook. I'd consider Keith, but you're giving up a lot of years and Keith has a lot of hard miles on him. Maybe. Probably not for Faulk.

Ekblad for sure. Hedman if he came with an extension.

Really, that's about it.


I would expand that list to Karlsson for sure, and OEL.

I don't think Hall is quite at "Norris trophy or bust" value. He has not had a 30 goal season yet, and is coming off of an underwhelming seasons of 38 and 65 points. So if you can get a very good number one D for him, but not necessarily a Norris guy, I think that is fair value. Pietrangelo, OEL, Faulk...I am listening. I am pushing everyone else before Hall, but I think we tend to overvalue him a bit.


I don't think I do it for OEL. He's one of the ones I'd be on the fence about, but for now, I think he falls in the No category.

Hall is one of the top three or four left wingers in the game. You need an elite talent coming back if you trade him. Honestly, I don't think any of those guys we've listed are available though, even for Hall.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673590 is a reply to message #673577 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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I've been hearing this RNH for Dumba idea from a few different areas. I don't like it. I'm fine with moving RNH, but it has to be for a better player than Dumba. Granted, I don't watch a ton of Wild games, but impression of Dumba is that there is a LOT of chaos in his game. Maybe that gets sorted out, but I'm not sure he's more than a 4/5 defenseman at this point who can put up some PP points. That's all well and good, but it doesn't really address the Oilers needs, and it certainly isn't worth giving up RNH. Someone on here suggested Charlie Coyle would have to be included for them, and I would tend to agree.

Regarding Sekera, the only thing I can think of is that they want to give his money to Jason Demers and get a right shot in here. Similar defensemen, likely a similar payday coming, and you probably shouldn't have both of them if you are paying each $5M+. Neither are ideally situated to be your #1. I'm not sure Demers should be on your top-pairing (I think Sekera COULD be if you get a strong puck-mover for him to play with).

Yeah, Fayne is totally available, but a hard one to move. I still wonder if you couldn't get Carolina or Arizona to take it on if you send them a B-level pick or prospect (perhaps a guy like Musil). Worst case I think is that you bring him back as your 7th defensemen or send him down to the AHL in place of Oesterle and get some cap space that way (similar to Davidson / Nikitin last year). Either way, I'm not overly anxious to bring back Eric Gryba, especially if he's going to be in the $2M+ range. I'd rather just keep a cheap Jordan Oesterle here and try put that money higher up in the lineup.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673596 is a reply to message #673590 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I felt that at the time, with the NYI being under the gun, that Sekera was the piece heading to New York for Hamonic, as the Isles wanted a plug and play guy who can eat a lot of Hamonic's minutes and has played the right side. Now that he has rescinded his trade request though, the asking price went up even more. I still think that deal makes sense, but you're looking at Sekera plus a combination of prospects and picks. Or perhaps with the freedom of Okposo, they would entertain an Eberle addition as well, however we would need to be taking back one of their contracts as those 2 alone are over $11 million with Hamonic being a cheap contract. But they're at just over $50 million in Cap spent with 5 or 6 forwards left to sign which is pretty good.

They would have to really consider this if it was offered IMO:

Sekera + Eberle to NYI
Hamonic + Grabovski/Kulemin/Lee to EDM



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673598 is a reply to message #673596 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Listening to the team this morning they mentioned Tampa maybe hard up to sign Hedman next year if they do get Stamkos signed to a new deal.

I would see if an offer of Eberle, Yak, Reinhart for Hedman and 2017 2nd gets it done.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673613 is a reply to message #673598 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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HipHopHopkins wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 12:28

Listening to the team this morning they mentioned Tampa maybe hard up to sign Hedman next year if they do get Stamkos signed to a new deal.

I would see if an offer of Eberle, Yak, Reinhart for Hedman and 2017 2nd gets it done.


It doesn't even come close. I wish it did, but Hedman is something like:

Hall, Davidson, 2017 First for Hedman

And TB fans will say they want Nurse or Klefbom as well.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673614 is a reply to message #673613 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Skoobz wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 13:18

HipHopHopkins wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 12:28

Listening to the team this morning they mentioned Tampa maybe hard up to sign Hedman next year if they do get Stamkos signed to a new deal.

I would see if an offer of Eberle, Yak, Reinhart for Hedman and 2017 2nd gets it done.


It doesn't even come close. I wish it did, but Hedman is something like:

Hall, Davidson, 2017 First for Hedman

And TB fans will say they want Nurse or Klefbom as well.


Honestly, I'd open the vault for Hedman. There's no weakness in his game. ONLY problem is he's a left shot as opposed to a right shot.

That is one of the few scenarios where moving Hall actually improves the club. I'd do that move. I'd even put Klefbom or Nurse in for Davidson.

With an extension of course.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673615 is a reply to message #673596 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mazankowski wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 10:51

I felt that at the time, with the NYI being under the gun, that Sekera was the piece heading to New York for Hamonic, as the Isles wanted a plug and play guy who can eat a lot of Hamonic's minutes and has played the right side. Now that he has rescinded his trade request though, the asking price went up even more. I still think that deal makes sense, but you're looking at Sekera plus a combination of prospects and picks. Or perhaps with the freedom of Okposo, they would entertain an Eberle addition as well, however we would need to be taking back one of their contracts as those 2 alone are over $11 million with Hamonic being a cheap contract. But they're at just over $50 million in Cap spent with 5 or 6 forwards left to sign which is pretty good.

They would have to really consider this if it was offered IMO:

Sekera + Eberle to NYI
Hamonic + Grabovski/Kulemin/Lee to EDM


I'm with you, swap out Sekera, add a piece, and you get a better D, at a better price. Net benefit. Of course you still need to add another D, or two, but your team is better regardless.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673623 is a reply to message #673577 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Later in the day and Matheson was still at it:

Quote:

New Jersey is also looking for more scoring (RNH). Kelowna grad Damon Severson is in play on def. Oilers have likely investigated him too


Seriously, if Chiarelli does a Nugent-Hopkins for Severson deal, he should be fired before he even puts down the phone.

He was also upset that the NHL fined Benning for "being candid" as it's bad for media.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673625 is a reply to message #673623 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 14:32

Later in the day and Matheson was still at it:

Quote:

New Jersey is also looking for more scoring (RNH). Kelowna grad Damon Severson is in play on def. Oilers have likely investigated him too


Seriously, if Chiarelli does a Nugent-Hopkins for Severson deal, he should be fired before he even puts down the phone.

He was also upset that the NHL fined Benning for "being candid" as it's bad for media.


Do we just come to terms with Matheson not understanding player value at all? I don't think I've ever seen him propose a deal with a big name in it that made sense.



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 Re: More Matheson "Rumours" [message #673626 is a reply to message #673623 ]
Tue, 28 June 2016 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Tue, 28 June 2016 14:32

Later in the day and Matheson was still at it:

Quote:

New Jersey is also looking for more scoring (RNH). Kelowna grad Damon Severson is in play on def. Oilers have likely investigated him too


Seriously, if Chiarelli does a Nugent-Hopkins for Severson deal, he should be fired before he even puts down the phone.

He was also upset that the NHL fined Benning for "being candid" as it's bad for media.

he should be upset if something is bad for the media... since he's media. When my company reorganizes and sticks me in an awful group I get mad because the decision is "bad for CrusaderPi". That doesn't mean it was the wrong decision, just that it's bad for me personally.



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