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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788064 is a reply to message #788061 ]
Sun, 20 June 2021 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 8605
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Sun, 20 June 2021 20:31

I cant remember a worse playoff season in a VERY long time.
- reffing is atrocious, every single team in the playoffs should be pissed off. It's open season on skill and brutality is thriving. The best hockey team isnt winning games/series
- to the above, "highlights" are cheap shots that weren't called, ricochet or garbage goals and frustrated players and coaches being asked about reffing every night.
- there isn't a single team worth cheering for. They are all so unlikable for various reasons. As an Oiler fan, I am a seasoned playoff bandwagon jumper.

Maybe some change will come, every round and almost every game, more mainstream, big following media types are commenting on a reffing reset being needed.

If it wasn't for the couple exciting players on the Oilers I would be real close to becoming an extremely casual hockey fan. As in, zero dollars spent, watch the odd game, check the box scores and watch the daily highlights.

This is boring.


Its funny, the NHL and their Networks want tp promote their product, they'll show clips of high skill goals by all the best players.. then in the playoffs they Ensure that you won't see any of those goals, or high skill plays by those same players they actively promoted. The interference without the puck, sticks in hands, cross checks, hooking, is non-stop.

All the games seem to be low chance, low scoring, any goals scored are off of rebounds, seeing eye screen shots, bad bounces, bad line changes, goofs (MAF!).. basically no one is able to CREATE goal scoring chances, they just happen, resulting from mistakes, bounces, screen shots. Games are now two teams playing a neutral zone trap waiting for opposition mistakes or bounces, no free flow, no play making, or goal chance creation going on.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788069 is a reply to message #788064 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 03:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 4863
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

4 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 00:47

PlusOne wrote on Sun, 20 June 2021 20:31

I cant remember a worse playoff season in a VERY long time.
- reffing is atrocious, every single team in the playoffs should be pissed off. It's open season on skill and brutality is thriving. The best hockey team isnt winning games/series
- to the above, "highlights" are cheap shots that weren't called, ricochet or garbage goals and frustrated players and coaches being asked about reffing every night.
- there isn't a single team worth cheering for. They are all so unlikable for various reasons. As an Oiler fan, I am a seasoned playoff bandwagon jumper.

Maybe some change will come, every round and almost every game, more mainstream, big following media types are commenting on a reffing reset being needed.

If it wasn't for the couple exciting players on the Oilers I would be real close to becoming an extremely casual hockey fan. As in, zero dollars spent, watch the odd game, check the box scores and watch the daily highlights.

This is boring.


Its funny, the NHL and their Networks want tp promote their product, they'll show clips of high skill goals by all the best players.. then in the playoffs they Ensure that you won't see any of those goals, or high skill plays by those same players they actively promoted. The interference without the puck, sticks in hands, cross checks, hooking, is non-stop.

All the games seem to be low chance, low scoring, any goals scored are off of rebounds, seeing eye screen shots, bad bounces, bad line changes, goofs (MAF!).. basically no one is able to CREATE goal scoring chances, they just happen, resulting from mistakes, bounces, screen shots. Games are now two teams playing a neutral zone trap waiting for opposition mistakes or bounces, no free flow, no play making, or goal chance creation going on.



100%. It's for the most part garbage hockey. I really can't see anyone who is not really into hockey already catching one of these games and saying "boy - I can't wait to watch another one of these". Would love to see the pendulum swing way to the other side with officiating like in some other sports - protect the stars and let them shine.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788072 is a reply to message #788069 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17974
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 03:45

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 00:47

PlusOne wrote on Sun, 20 June 2021 20:31

I cant remember a worse playoff season in a VERY long time.
- reffing is atrocious, every single team in the playoffs should be pissed off. It's open season on skill and brutality is thriving. The best hockey team isnt winning games/series
- to the above, "highlights" are cheap shots that weren't called, ricochet or garbage goals and frustrated players and coaches being asked about reffing every night.
- there isn't a single team worth cheering for. They are all so unlikable for various reasons. As an Oiler fan, I am a seasoned playoff bandwagon jumper.

Maybe some change will come, every round and almost every game, more mainstream, big following media types are commenting on a reffing reset being needed.

If it wasn't for the couple exciting players on the Oilers I would be real close to becoming an extremely casual hockey fan. As in, zero dollars spent, watch the odd game, check the box scores and watch the daily highlights.

This is boring.


Its funny, the NHL and their Networks want tp promote their product, they'll show clips of high skill goals by all the best players.. then in the playoffs they Ensure that you won't see any of those goals, or high skill plays by those same players they actively promoted. The interference without the puck, sticks in hands, cross checks, hooking, is non-stop.

All the games seem to be low chance, low scoring, any goals scored are off of rebounds, seeing eye screen shots, bad bounces, bad line changes, goofs (MAF!).. basically no one is able to CREATE goal scoring chances, they just happen, resulting from mistakes, bounces, screen shots. Games are now two teams playing a neutral zone trap waiting for opposition mistakes or bounces, no free flow, no play making, or goal chance creation going on.



100%. It's for the most part garbage hockey. I really can't see anyone who is not really into hockey already catching one of these games and saying "boy - I can't wait to watch another one of these". Would love to see the pendulum swing way to the other side with officiating like in some other sports - protect the stars and let them shine.


Saw some comments about this on twitter last night, saying how would you explain the rules of hockey to someone new to the sport if they're watching in the playoffs? When the rules are completely fluid, other than the occasional completely steadfast rules like shooting the puck over the glass? It's a joke.

I hope the NHL is starting to feel the heat from people talking about it constantly. It's the only way anything changes. That and ratings drop.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788074 is a reply to message #788072 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 21840
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 09:03

Mike wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 03:45

Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 00:47

PlusOne wrote on Sun, 20 June 2021 20:31

I cant remember a worse playoff season in a VERY long time.
- reffing is atrocious, every single team in the playoffs should be pissed off. It's open season on skill and brutality is thriving. The best hockey team isnt winning games/series
- to the above, "highlights" are cheap shots that weren't called, ricochet or garbage goals and frustrated players and coaches being asked about reffing every night.
- there isn't a single team worth cheering for. They are all so unlikable for various reasons. As an Oiler fan, I am a seasoned playoff bandwagon jumper.

Maybe some change will come, every round and almost every game, more mainstream, big following media types are commenting on a reffing reset being needed.

If it wasn't for the couple exciting players on the Oilers I would be real close to becoming an extremely casual hockey fan. As in, zero dollars spent, watch the odd game, check the box scores and watch the daily highlights.

This is boring.


Its funny, the NHL and their Networks want tp promote their product, they'll show clips of high skill goals by all the best players.. then in the playoffs they Ensure that you won't see any of those goals, or high skill plays by those same players they actively promoted. The interference without the puck, sticks in hands, cross checks, hooking, is non-stop.

All the games seem to be low chance, low scoring, any goals scored are off of rebounds, seeing eye screen shots, bad bounces, bad line changes, goofs (MAF!).. basically no one is able to CREATE goal scoring chances, they just happen, resulting from mistakes, bounces, screen shots. Games are now two teams playing a neutral zone trap waiting for opposition mistakes or bounces, no free flow, no play making, or goal chance creation going on.



100%. It's for the most part garbage hockey. I really can't see anyone who is not really into hockey already catching one of these games and saying "boy - I can't wait to watch another one of these". Would love to see the pendulum swing way to the other side with officiating like in some other sports - protect the stars and let them shine.


Saw some comments about this on twitter last night, saying how would you explain the rules of hockey to someone new to the sport if they're watching in the playoffs? When the rules are completely fluid, other than the occasional completely steadfast rules like shooting the puck over the glass? It's a joke.

I hope the NHL is starting to feel the heat from people talking about it constantly. It's the only way anything changes. That and ratings drop.


At least we will always have the puck over glass penalty. That is probably called correctly 95% of the time.

So:

Puck over glass: 95% accuracy
Too many Men on the ice: ~50% accuracy
Hits to the head: ~40% accuracy
High sticks: ~30% accuracy
Hits from behind: ~25% accuracy
Then all the rest like hooking, holding, slashing, roughing etc... are around 5% on average




"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788076 is a reply to message #788072 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 8117
Registered: January 2016

6 Cups

I believe the NHL is the only league that completely changes how they play the game from the playoffs to the regular season and I don't mean the players. The league completely abandons all the rules that they call during the regular season. The reffing isn't perfect in the regular season, they do miss calls and there is some inconsistency which I think they could improve on and I get it's probably impossible to get it perfect but generally I don't find the regular season reffing so grossly awful that I feel as outraged as I do in the playoffs.

The NHL wants to continue to grow its league and in turn grow its revenues, especially in the US. If you watch how say the NBA brands itself, they sell the crap out of their superstars. When a game is announced, they mention this superstar or superstars vs these superstars and they talk about the match up of the stars and how exciting it will be. That's for the regular season and the playoffs. They don't talk about barely see the court bench player vs bench player. When they play the game, if anything the stars get more calls than the lesser guys. WHY? Because the stars are who people go to watch, to tune or who they buy merchandise from. No one gives a damn about the guy who barely plays. But the NHL goes the opposite. In the beginning, they call the crap out of penalties and then as you get farther and farther into the season, the standards change and start to favor the lesser plays. By the playoffs, the game totally switches to favor the lesser players because they don't call anything. Corey Perry and Eric Staal, 2 guys close to retirement who can't keep up in the regular season are having a great playoffs because they are allowed to cheat to keep up.

The refs don't want to impact the outcome of the game. Well they are completely influencing the games. When a 4th liner is allowed to tackle or trip or hack the stick out of a good players hands with no call and they call it "battling", they just influenced the game because they are allowing guys to cheat to stop the good players. I do wonder if the new US broadcaster TNT will influence change because as a lover of hockey, I do not EVER go to an Oilers game or watch it on TV to no offense to the player, watch the Khaira's of the NHL. It needs to change because it's getting out of hand. If a less talented team goes on a miracle run and beats out way better teams and they do it because their goalie stands on their head or they get lucky or the better teams just don't play well or hey, the lesser team just flats out outplays the better team and beats them fair and square, I got no problem with that. But I do not want to see teams go on these runs because they play "playoff style hockey" which in my opinion means you are allowed to cheat. Yes you play hard and physical BUT I can't stand watching hockey where there isn't a chance in hell a team would win any games if the refs even called 1/3 the penalties they could.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 June 2021 09:33]


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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788089 is a reply to message #788061 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan  is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 2120
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

2 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 00:31

I cant remember a worse playoff season in a VERY long time.
- reffing is atrocious, every single team in the playoffs should be pissed off. It's open season on skill and brutality is thriving. The best hockey team isnt winning games/series
- to the above, "highlights" are cheap shots that weren't called, ricochet or garbage goals and frustrated players and coaches being asked about reffing every night.
- there isn't a single team worth cheering for. They are all so unlikable for various reasons. As an Oiler fan, I am a seasoned playoff bandwagon jumper.

Maybe some change will come, every round and almost every game, more mainstream, big following media types are commenting on a reffing reset being needed.

If it wasn't for the couple exciting players on the Oilers I would be real close to becoming an extremely casual hockey fan. As in, zero dollars spent, watch the odd game, check the box scores and watch the daily highlights.

This is boring.


I'm in the exact same boat. Loved watching hockey since I moved here in 2002, but if this is what passes for "good hockey" right now then I have zero interest in watching it.

Why even bother having a rule book if the referees are just going to call seemingly random penalties (which may or may not even be legitimate penalties) while at the same time not calling very obvious infractions? Drag down skill, promote clutch & grab. No thanks.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788106 is a reply to message #788089 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 4863
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

4 Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 16:25

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 00:31

I cant remember a worse playoff season in a VERY long time.
- reffing is atrocious, every single team in the playoffs should be pissed off. It's open season on skill and brutality is thriving. The best hockey team isnt winning games/series
- to the above, "highlights" are cheap shots that weren't called, ricochet or garbage goals and frustrated players and coaches being asked about reffing every night.
- there isn't a single team worth cheering for. They are all so unlikable for various reasons. As an Oiler fan, I am a seasoned playoff bandwagon jumper.

Maybe some change will come, every round and almost every game, more mainstream, big following media types are commenting on a reffing reset being needed.

If it wasn't for the couple exciting players on the Oilers I would be real close to becoming an extremely casual hockey fan. As in, zero dollars spent, watch the odd game, check the box scores and watch the daily highlights.

This is boring.


I'm in the exact same boat. Loved watching hockey since I moved here in 2002, but if this is what passes for "good hockey" right now then I have zero interest in watching it.

Why even bother having a rule book if the referees are just going to call seemingly random penalties (which may or may not even be legitimate penalties) while at the same time not calling very obvious infractions? Drag down skill, promote clutch & grab. No thanks.



For the first time that I remember, this is gaining lots of momentum everywhere. Broadcasters are calling it out left and right, bloggers, even the hockey writers.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/canadiens-nhl-fans-outraged -over-referee-chris-lee-montreal-vegas-game-4-performance-16 1422061.html

Ray Ferraro weighing in as well

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/ferraro-gms-have-to-ch ange-way-games-are-officiated-1.1658300

Who knows - maybe they've gone too far and people have had enough. I know I'm not enjoying the hockey I'm seeing. Even less so if it would be McDavid being accosted with impunity all night.

Let's hope it's the start of a change.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788113 is a reply to message #788106 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
Messages: 7124
Registered: February 2011

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 06:22

Who knows - maybe they've gone too far and people have had enough. I know I'm not enjoying the hockey I'm seeing. Even less so if it would be McDavid being accosted with impunity all night.

Let's hope it's the start of a change.

When the last lockout ended, one of the biggest changes were for refs to call penalties consistently from regular season to playoffs, and it was actually happening for a few years before it slowly died out. Then came the recent expansion with the VGK and soon-to-be playing Kraken, and Bettman clearly still has American dollar signs in his eyes. Basically, this means fat chance that the refs will start calling things consistently in the playoffs, because it would mean that those expansion teams would actually have to display skill to get to the Cup Finals which in turn means they won't get far which in turn means fans will lose interest.

Adding 2 teams to the league diluted the talent pool especially thanks to the very-friendly expansion draft rules that conveniently came into place when Vegas started. The only way to counter this is to let them clutch-and-grab and high-stick their way through the playoffs.



"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788114 is a reply to message #788113 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 8605
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

6 Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 09:58

Mike wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 06:22

Who knows - maybe they've gone too far and people have had enough. I know I'm not enjoying the hockey I'm seeing. Even less so if it would be McDavid being accosted with impunity all night.

Let's hope it's the start of a change.

When the last lockout ended, one of the biggest changes were for refs to call penalties consistently from regular season to playoffs, and it was actually happening for a few years before it slowly died out. Then came the recent expansion with the VGK and soon-to-be playing Kraken, and Bettman clearly still has American dollar signs in his eyes. Basically, this means fat chance that the refs will start calling things consistently in the playoffs, because it would mean that those expansion teams would actually have to display skill to get to the Cup Finals which in turn means they won't get far which in turn means fans will lose interest.

Adding 2 teams to the league diluted the talent pool especially thanks to the very-friendly expansion draft rules that conveniently came into place when Vegas started. The only way to counter this is to let them clutch-and-grab and high-stick their way through the playoffs.


👍🏻



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788115 is a reply to message #788114 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
Messages: 15405
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 11:08

Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 09:58

Mike wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 06:22

Who knows - maybe they've gone too far and people have had enough. I know I'm not enjoying the hockey I'm seeing. Even less so if it would be McDavid being accosted with impunity all night.

Let's hope it's the start of a change.

When the last lockout ended, one of the biggest changes were for refs to call penalties consistently from regular season to playoffs, and it was actually happening for a few years before it slowly died out. Then came the recent expansion with the VGK and soon-to-be playing Kraken, and Bettman clearly still has American dollar signs in his eyes. Basically, this means fat chance that the refs will start calling things consistently in the playoffs, because it would mean that those expansion teams would actually have to display skill to get to the Cup Finals which in turn means they won't get far which in turn means fans will lose interest.

Adding 2 teams to the league diluted the talent pool especially thanks to the very-friendly expansion draft rules that conveniently came into place when Vegas started. The only way to counter this is to let them clutch-and-grab and high-stick their way through the playoffs.


👍🏻

Just wait until the NHL expands to 40 teams and 5 rounds of playoffs :)



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788122 is a reply to message #788113 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 21840
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 10:58

Mike wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 06:22

Who knows - maybe they've gone too far and people have had enough. I know I'm not enjoying the hockey I'm seeing. Even less so if it would be McDavid being accosted with impunity all night.

Let's hope it's the start of a change.

When the last lockout ended, one of the biggest changes were for refs to call penalties consistently from regular season to playoffs, and it was actually happening for a few years before it slowly died out. Then came the recent expansion with the VGK and soon-to-be playing Kraken, and Bettman clearly still has American dollar signs in his eyes. Basically, this means fat chance that the refs will start calling things consistently in the playoffs, because it would mean that those expansion teams would actually have to display skill to get to the Cup Finals which in turn means they won't get far which in turn means fans will lose interest.

Adding 2 teams to the league diluted the talent pool especially thanks to the very-friendly expansion draft rules that conveniently came into place when Vegas started. The only way to counter this is to let them clutch-and-grab and high-stick their way through the playoffs.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/this-time-nhl- serious-about-obstruction-really-seriously/article738839/


Quote:

The message, from the National Hockey League's vice-president of hockey operations, was unequivocal.

On the matter of trying to open up the game of hockey to reward its skilled players, he said: "Believe me, we are not going to relax all the obstruction calls in the regular season. This is not an experiment. If the players don't pay attention, teams better have the best penalty-killers in the history of the league."

Those were the words of former NHL executive Brian Burke, exactly 10 years ago, insisting that this time, for sure, the league was serious about getting obstruction out of the game.

It's no wonder there remains a healthy level of skepticism toward the NHL's latest attempt to police all the hooking, holding and interference that gradually crept into the game over the past 12 to 15 years. Any player with a reasonable amount of NHL experience has heard all these pious pronouncements before and thus, can be forgiven if he's feeling just a hint of déjà vu.

...

According to Walkom, it wasn't just the culture of hockey that needed changing, it was also the culture of officiating. Too often in the past, referees tended to "manage" games.

Under pressure from coaches, general managers, fans and media, the watchword, as the season progressed, became "let them play."

Of course, "let them play" as a euphemism, was entirely false. It meant just the opposite.

The "let them play" mentality actually prevented the truly exceptional talents from playing at the highest level -- because they spent most of the game carrying a lesser player on his back or fending off one cross-check after another in front of the net.

Just as NHL players will need to relearn how to play the game and coaches will need to relearn how to instruct the game, referees are also relearning how to call the game.

"Every player is going to have a choice," Walkom said. "His choice is: to commit the foul or not commit the foul.

...

In the end, according to Walkom, it was the desire of the fans for a more entertaining product that pushed the league harder than ever down this well-trodden path.

"It wasn't just a couple of people that got together and decided these were the things that needed to be done to fix the game," Walkom said. "This was a whole process. It took a year to do. There were players involved and GMs and coaches and officials. But more importantly, they looked at the concerns of the fans, and that's why we are where we are today.

"I think the reason that this time it'll work is because our focus is on the puck carrier. . . . If we can free up the puck carrier in the game, we can create the excitement that the fans have desired for some time."



From 2005 :)



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788126 is a reply to message #788122 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 17974
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 12:28

Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 10:58

Mike wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 06:22

Who knows - maybe they've gone too far and people have had enough. I know I'm not enjoying the hockey I'm seeing. Even less so if it would be McDavid being accosted with impunity all night.

Let's hope it's the start of a change.

When the last lockout ended, one of the biggest changes were for refs to call penalties consistently from regular season to playoffs, and it was actually happening for a few years before it slowly died out. Then came the recent expansion with the VGK and soon-to-be playing Kraken, and Bettman clearly still has American dollar signs in his eyes. Basically, this means fat chance that the refs will start calling things consistently in the playoffs, because it would mean that those expansion teams would actually have to display skill to get to the Cup Finals which in turn means they won't get far which in turn means fans will lose interest.

Adding 2 teams to the league diluted the talent pool especially thanks to the very-friendly expansion draft rules that conveniently came into place when Vegas started. The only way to counter this is to let them clutch-and-grab and high-stick their way through the playoffs.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/this-time-nhl- serious-about-obstruction-really-seriously/article738839/


Quote:

The message, from the National Hockey League's vice-president of hockey operations, was unequivocal.

On the matter of trying to open up the game of hockey to reward its skilled players, he said: "Believe me, we are not going to relax all the obstruction calls in the regular season. This is not an experiment. If the players don't pay attention, teams better have the best penalty-killers in the history of the league."

Those were the words of former NHL executive Brian Burke, exactly 10 years ago, insisting that this time, for sure, the league was serious about getting obstruction out of the game.

It's no wonder there remains a healthy level of skepticism toward the NHL's latest attempt to police all the hooking, holding and interference that gradually crept into the game over the past 12 to 15 years. Any player with a reasonable amount of NHL experience has heard all these pious pronouncements before and thus, can be forgiven if he's feeling just a hint of déjà vu.

...

According to Walkom, it wasn't just the culture of hockey that needed changing, it was also the culture of officiating. Too often in the past, referees tended to "manage" games.

Under pressure from coaches, general managers, fans and media, the watchword, as the season progressed, became "let them play."

Of course, "let them play" as a euphemism, was entirely false. It meant just the opposite.

The "let them play" mentality actually prevented the truly exceptional talents from playing at the highest level -- because they spent most of the game carrying a lesser player on his back or fending off one cross-check after another in front of the net.

Just as NHL players will need to relearn how to play the game and coaches will need to relearn how to instruct the game, referees are also relearning how to call the game.

"Every player is going to have a choice," Walkom said. "His choice is: to commit the foul or not commit the foul.

...

In the end, according to Walkom, it was the desire of the fans for a more entertaining product that pushed the league harder than ever down this well-trodden path.

"It wasn't just a couple of people that got together and decided these were the things that needed to be done to fix the game," Walkom said. "This was a whole process. It took a year to do. There were players involved and GMs and coaches and officials. But more importantly, they looked at the concerns of the fans, and that's why we are where we are today.

"I think the reason that this time it'll work is because our focus is on the puck carrier. . . . If we can free up the puck carrier in the game, we can create the excitement that the fans have desired for some time."



From 2005 :)


The crazy thing is that it worked. Scoring was up significantly in 2005-06. It was a very entertaining season. There were seven players who scored 100 points.

And then the NHL decided it didn't really like that and allowed more and more obstruction back in to the game. Burke was a big part of that - he argued that players were getting hurt because people were allowed to build up too much speed, so if you allowed some obstruction (although a totally nebulous amount since it's still technically holding and called some of the time) then it would be safer.

The crazy thing about the NHL is that they actually got it right and then re-broke it again intentionally. I don't even really understand why, other than the fact that the guys in GM chairs are more likely to be old grinders than old star players.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788131 is a reply to message #788122 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94  is currently offline oilfan94
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 14:28

Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 10:58

Mike wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 06:22

Who knows - maybe they've gone too far and people have had enough. I know I'm not enjoying the hockey I'm seeing. Even less so if it would be McDavid being accosted with impunity all night.

Let's hope it's the start of a change.

When the last lockout ended, one of the biggest changes were for refs to call penalties consistently from regular season to playoffs, and it was actually happening for a few years before it slowly died out. Then came the recent expansion with the VGK and soon-to-be playing Kraken, and Bettman clearly still has American dollar signs in his eyes. Basically, this means fat chance that the refs will start calling things consistently in the playoffs, because it would mean that those expansion teams would actually have to display skill to get to the Cup Finals which in turn means they won't get far which in turn means fans will lose interest.

Adding 2 teams to the league diluted the talent pool especially thanks to the very-friendly expansion draft rules that conveniently came into place when Vegas started. The only way to counter this is to let them clutch-and-grab and high-stick their way through the playoffs.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/this-time-nhl- serious-about-obstruction-really-seriously/article738839/


Quote:

The message, from the National Hockey League's vice-president of hockey operations, was unequivocal.

On the matter of trying to open up the game of hockey to reward its skilled players, he said: "Believe me, we are not going to relax all the obstruction calls in the regular season. This is not an experiment. If the players don't pay attention, teams better have the best penalty-killers in the history of the league."

Those were the words of former NHL executive Brian Burke, exactly 10 years ago, insisting that this time, for sure, the league was serious about getting obstruction out of the game.

It's no wonder there remains a healthy level of skepticism toward the NHL's latest attempt to police all the hooking, holding and interference that gradually crept into the game over the past 12 to 15 years. Any player with a reasonable amount of NHL experience has heard all these pious pronouncements before and thus, can be forgiven if he's feeling just a hint of déjà vu.

...

According to Walkom, it wasn't just the culture of hockey that needed changing, it was also the culture of officiating. Too often in the past, referees tended to "manage" games.

Under pressure from coaches, general managers, fans and media, the watchword, as the season progressed, became "let them play."

Of course, "let them play" as a euphemism, was entirely false. It meant just the opposite.

The "let them play" mentality actually prevented the truly exceptional talents from playing at the highest level -- because they spent most of the game carrying a lesser player on his back or fending off one cross-check after another in front of the net.

Just as NHL players will need to relearn how to play the game and coaches will need to relearn how to instruct the game, referees are also relearning how to call the game.

"Every player is going to have a choice," Walkom said. "His choice is: to commit the foul or not commit the foul.

...

In the end, according to Walkom, it was the desire of the fans for a more entertaining product that pushed the league harder than ever down this well-trodden path.

"It wasn't just a couple of people that got together and decided these were the things that needed to be done to fix the game," Walkom said. "This was a whole process. It took a year to do. There were players involved and GMs and coaches and officials. But more importantly, they looked at the concerns of the fans, and that's why we are where we are today.

"I think the reason that this time it'll work is because our focus is on the puck carrier. . . . If we can free up the puck carrier in the game, we can create the excitement that the fans have desired for some time."



From 2005 :)


I would be so happy if a word for word article could apply to today.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788079 is a reply to message #785046 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Do you ever look at the fact that the Montreal Canadiens - the worst regular season team in the playoffs - are 2-2 in the third round and think that maybe Ken Holland made an error when he decided this wasn't the year for the Oilers to "go for it"?


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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788083 is a reply to message #788079 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 09:47

Do you ever look at the fact that the Montreal Canadiens - the worst regular season team in the playoffs - are 2-2 in the third round and think that maybe Ken Holland made an error when he decided this wasn't the year for the Oilers to "go for it"?

I sure don't because when I watch this years playoffs and how it's being played, let's say the Oilers did "go for it", there isn't a chance in hell I think they could win because when I look at the Habs, they are built exactly how the playoffs are played. They have a goalie capable of winning games on his own. They have a big, vet defense who play a rough, physical, cheating style of hockey. They also have a bunch of vet "warhorses" like Perry and Staal and Gallagher who are allowed to do their thing. If the refs called the rules, I do not think the Habs defense could function in the playoffs. Every time I see the Habs broadcast, I hear over and over again about how great a playoffs Perry and Staal are having. Those 2 could barely play in the regular season. Even Vegas as a way bigger defense full of grab you to the ice and throw you down and have a whole wack of grinders on their team at forward.

The Habs and Vegas don't have a Barrie, Bear and Russell playing on their defense at the same time. 3 smaller, not overly physical dmen. Russell plays his butt off but he's 170.

The Habs and Vegas don't have Nuge, Ennis, McLeon, Yamo, Haas, all playing at the same time. That's almost 50% of their forwards. All those guys played in game 4. McLeod has sizes but doesn't play with a lot of edge. The rest are undersized forwards you aren't overly physical or tough to play against. Chiasson was in the line up too. He's a vet who's got size but he's not a nasty player like Perry is. Khaira is big and sort of physical at times but I wouldn't call him nasty to play against and can easily disappear and be disengaged.

After the Oilers lost, there was a part of me that was pissed off because I thought if only but now watching the playoffs, unless the league gets out of their mindset to clog the game down so the slugs and grinders can keep up, the Oilers had too much smaller skillist guys to have a chance.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 June 2021 10:20]


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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788084 is a reply to message #788079 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 09:47

Do you ever look at the fact that the Montreal Canadiens - the worst regular season team in the playoffs - are 2-2 in the third round and think that maybe Ken Holland made an error when he decided this wasn't the year for the Oilers to "go for it"?

Having the top two scorers in the league, the top dman in point production, and a goalie who is having a Vezina calibre season late in his career aren't enough.

you need to have won the president's trophy. That is when you go for the Cup.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788086 is a reply to message #788084 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 13:43

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 09:47

Do you ever look at the fact that the Montreal Canadiens - the worst regular season team in the playoffs - are 2-2 in the third round and think that maybe Ken Holland made an error when he decided this wasn't the year for the Oilers to "go for it"?

Having the top two scorers in the league, the top dman in point production, and a goalie who is having a Vezina calibre season late in his career aren't enough.

you need to have won the president's trophy. That is when you go for the Cup.


LMAO - Dear God, when you put it like that, makes one want to cry. Or punch a cat. My cat just got his balls chopped off, so I'll leave him be and just cry...

And on top of all of that, another Dman likely to finish top 10 in Norris voting, if not top 5.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788087 is a reply to message #788084 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 10:43

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 09:47

Do you ever look at the fact that the Montreal Canadiens - the worst regular season team in the playoffs - are 2-2 in the third round and think that maybe Ken Holland made an error when he decided this wasn't the year for the Oilers to "go for it"?

Having the top two scorers in the league, the top dman in point production, and a goalie who is having a Vezina calibre season late in his career aren't enough.

you need to have won the president's trophy. That is when you go for the Cup.


Definitely not when you win the president's trophy. That's non-stop chokesville. If you are on track to win the pres trophy I think you are better off selling at the deadline.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788088 is a reply to message #788087 ]
Mon, 21 June 2021 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently online CrusaderPi
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 11:05

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 10:43

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 June 2021 09:47

Do you ever look at the fact that the Montreal Canadiens - the worst regular season team in the playoffs - are 2-2 in the third round and think that maybe Ken Holland made an error when he decided this wasn't the year for the Oilers to "go for it"?

Having the top two scorers in the league, the top dman in point production, and a goalie who is having a Vezina calibre season late in his career aren't enough.

you need to have won the president's trophy. That is when you go for the Cup.


Definitely not when you win the president's trophy. That's non-stop chokesville. If you are on track to win the pres trophy I think you are better off selling at the deadline.

Or at least play the second last game with 15 men because of injuries and cap problems.



East of the Rockies and west of the rest.

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788139 is a reply to message #785046 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Watching Vegas Habs, ugliest hockey I've seen all year, 15 minutes in shots are 3-3, dump ins don't even work because of interference on the forecheck.. thanks NHL


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Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788140 is a reply to message #785046 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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It's so weird how the double minor high stick is reviewable, but just a normal high stick isn't. So if you know you got yourself in the face, the best strategy is to hide that you're bleeding to try to make it only a minor so it can't be reviewed I guess.


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788141 is a reply to message #785046 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 21:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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All these sweet goals off the faceoff for Vegas in the series. They forgot how to score other ways though. Price has been great. Montreal looks a lot like our 2006 team. Great goaltending and every line grinding out every shift.


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788142 is a reply to message #788141 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:24

All these sweet goals off the faceoff for Vegas in the series. They forgot how to score other ways though. Price has been great. Montreal looks a lot like our 2006 team. Great goaltending and every line grinding out every shift.

Yep, they are really screwing up Bettman's plans and good on them for doing so. Bonus points for doing it to them at their home arena in front of all the bandwagon-jumpers and Canadian expatriates. F$@# the VGK.

P.S.: Someone on Twitter posted an NBC Sports clip showing the outside of the Vegas arena where a big screen had been set up for fans who couldn't get in to watch the game. It was emptier than the Sahara Desert- the commentators were saying,"Where is there NOT a party in Vegas? Looks like we found it.". Yep, Gary, this is what it is going to be like when Vegas finally comes back down to earth. There is a reason why no other pro sports league has given that city a franchise, but you were too stupid to see it.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 June 2021 21:51]


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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788143 is a reply to message #788142 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:44

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:24

All these sweet goals off the faceoff for Vegas in the series. They forgot how to score other ways though. Price has been great. Montreal looks a lot like our 2006 team. Great goaltending and every line grinding out every shift.

Yep, they are really screwing up Bettman's plans and good on them for doing so. Bonus points for doing it to them at their home arena in front of all the bandwagon-jumpers and Canadian expatriates. F$@# the VGK.

P.S.: Someone on Twitter posted an NBC Sports clip showing the outside of the Vegas arena where a big screen had been set up for fans who couldn't get in to watch the game. It was emptier than the Sahara Desert- the commentators were saying,"Where is there NOT a party in Vegas? Looks like we found it.". Yep, Gary, this is what it is going to be like when Vegas finally comes back down to earth. There is a reason why no other pro sports league has given that city a franchise, but you were too stupid to see it.


lol, yeah it's hard not to enjoy Vegas crapping the bed yet again. The most charmed yet chokey team in NHL history.

Gotta give Vegas credit for that Nick Suzuki pick though. Definitely stole one in that draft. Only 21 and kid can do everything in any situation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4kMNACXEAUWpfV?format=jpg&name=small

[Updated on: Wed, 23 June 2021 14:02]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788144 is a reply to message #788143 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:06

lol, yeah it's hard not to enjoy Vegas crapping the bed yet again. The most charmed yet chokey team in NHL history.

Gotta give Vegas credit for that Nick Suzuki pick though. Definitely stole one in that draft. Only 21 and kid can do everything in any situation.



Its what happens when you fire a coach as he's getting on to the team bus after a game, and then leave him standing at the side of the road with his bags.. karma baby.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788159 is a reply to message #788144 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94  is currently offline oilfan94
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 01:35

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:06

lol, yeah it's hard not to enjoy Vegas crapping the bed yet again. The most charmed yet chokey team in NHL history.

Gotta give Vegas credit for that Nick Suzuki pick though. Definitely stole one in that draft. Only 21 and kid can do everything in any situation.



Its what happens when you fire a coach as he's getting on to the team bus after a game, and then leave him standing at the side of the road with his bags.. karma baby.


I think that was what happened to Gallant when Florida fired him, not when Vegas fired him. They made it up to him though by making sure he had some solid players to work with when he started coaching Vegas.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788160 is a reply to message #788159 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 11:12

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 01:35

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:06

lol, yeah it's hard not to enjoy Vegas crapping the bed yet again. The most charmed yet chokey team in NHL history.

Gotta give Vegas credit for that Nick Suzuki pick though. Definitely stole one in that draft. Only 21 and kid can do everything in any situation.



Its what happens when you fire a coach as he's getting on to the team bus after a game, and then leave him standing at the side of the road with his bags.. karma baby.


I think that was what happened to Gallant when Florida fired him, not when Vegas fired him. They made it up to him though by making sure he had some solid players to work with when he started coaching Vegas.


Yeah, think that's right. Think right after a Florida game they told him he's out.

Vegas fired him because their team was 24-19-6 and trending to miss the playoffs and I guess management thought they needed their team to get more DeBoering. Not saving them from hot goalies still though :)

[Updated on: Wed, 23 June 2021 11:19]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788145 is a reply to message #788142 ]
Tue, 22 June 2021 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 20:44

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:24

All these sweet goals off the faceoff for Vegas in the series. They forgot how to score other ways though. Price has been great. Montreal looks a lot like our 2006 team. Great goaltending and every line grinding out every shift.

Yep, they are really screwing up Bettman's plans and good on them for doing so. Bonus points for doing it to them at their home arena in front of all the bandwagon-jumpers and Canadian expatriates. F$@# the VGK.

P.S.: Someone on Twitter posted an NBC Sports clip showing the outside of the Vegas arena where a big screen had been set up for fans who couldn't get in to watch the game. It was emptier than the Sahara Desert- the commentators were saying,"Where is there NOT a party in Vegas? Looks like we found it.". Yep, Gary, this is what it is going to be like when Vegas finally comes back down to earth. There is a reason why no other pro sports league has given that city a franchise, but you were too stupid to see it.



Well the fact it was 41C in Vegas today might have something to do with it as well.. 🌞



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788156 is a reply to message #788145 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 23:38

Well the fact it was 41C in Vegas today might have something to do with it as well.. 🌞

Are you kidding? That is perfect hockey weather! Just ask Gary Bettman!



"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

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"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788171 is a reply to message #788142 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:44

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:24

All these sweet goals off the faceoff for Vegas in the series. They forgot how to score other ways though. Price has been great. Montreal looks a lot like our 2006 team. Great goaltending and every line grinding out every shift.

Yep, they are really screwing up Bettman's plans and good on them for doing so. Bonus points for doing it to them at their home arena in front of all the bandwagon-jumpers and Canadian expatriates. F$@# the VGK.

P.S.: Someone on Twitter posted an NBC Sports clip showing the outside of the Vegas arena where a big screen had been set up for fans who couldn't get in to watch the game. It was emptier than the Sahara Desert- the commentators were saying,"Where is there NOT a party in Vegas? Looks like we found it.". Yep, Gary, this is what it is going to be like when Vegas finally comes back down to earth. There is a reason why no other pro sports league has given that city a franchise, but you were too stupid to see it.

Not entirely true. When I was in Vegas in March 2020, I believe they were building a stadium for the NFL Vegas Raiders.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788191 is a reply to message #788171 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 12:20

Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:44

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:24

All these sweet goals off the faceoff for Vegas in the series. They forgot how to score other ways though. Price has been great. Montreal looks a lot like our 2006 team. Great goaltending and every line grinding out every shift.

Yep, they are really screwing up Bettman's plans and good on them for doing so. Bonus points for doing it to them at their home arena in front of all the bandwagon-jumpers and Canadian expatriates. F$@# the VGK.

P.S.: Someone on Twitter posted an NBC Sports clip showing the outside of the Vegas arena where a big screen had been set up for fans who couldn't get in to watch the game. It was emptier than the Sahara Desert- the commentators were saying,"Where is there NOT a party in Vegas? Looks like we found it.". Yep, Gary, this is what it is going to be like when Vegas finally comes back down to earth. There is a reason why no other pro sports league has given that city a franchise, but you were too stupid to see it.

Not entirely true. When I was in Vegas in March 2020, I believe they were building a stadium for the NFL Vegas Raiders.

Fair enough, but how long will they last? If a city like L.A. can lose an NFL franchise (more than once, no less), one like Vegas that is much smaller in population and is basically built on tourism could see theirs leave town even sooner. Also, in the case of the VGK, we're talking about a sport that is a distant fourth when it comes to popularity among the pro leagues of North America especially when compared to the NFL. It is pretty stupid, and I'm banking on them to move to Quebec City as the new Nordiques sometime within the next decade or so.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788194 is a reply to message #788191 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 16:22

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 12:20

Ragnarok73 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:44

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 22 June 2021 21:24

All these sweet goals off the faceoff for Vegas in the series. They forgot how to score other ways though. Price has been great. Montreal looks a lot like our 2006 team. Great goaltending and every line grinding out every shift.

Yep, they are really screwing up Bettman's plans and good on them for doing so. Bonus points for doing it to them at their home arena in front of all the bandwagon-jumpers and Canadian expatriates. F$@# the VGK.

P.S.: Someone on Twitter posted an NBC Sports clip showing the outside of the Vegas arena where a big screen had been set up for fans who couldn't get in to watch the game. It was emptier than the Sahara Desert- the commentators were saying,"Where is there NOT a party in Vegas? Looks like we found it.". Yep, Gary, this is what it is going to be like when Vegas finally comes back down to earth. There is a reason why no other pro sports league has given that city a franchise, but you were too stupid to see it.

Not entirely true. When I was in Vegas in March 2020, I believe they were building a stadium for the NFL Vegas Raiders.

Fair enough, but how long will they last? If a city like L.A. can lose an NFL franchise (more than once, no less), one like Vegas that is much smaller in population and is basically built on tourism could see theirs leave town even sooner. Also, in the case of the VGK, we're talking about a sport that is a distant fourth when it comes to popularity among the pro leagues of North America especially when compared to the NFL. It is pretty stupid, and I'm banking on them to move to Quebec City as the new Nordiques sometime within the next decade or so.


By all accounts, the Knights have had pretty good support in Las Vegas since getting there.

I expect the football team will do really well. When I was there in 2017, there were no shortage of locals who mentioned how excited they were about it.

I don't really understand Canadians who think that hockey will never appeal to people in sunny places. I mean, if it's your favourite sport, then isn't it likely there's something exciting for people to get in to if they're exposed to it?

I'll agree that if they see miserable hockey - if the team makes the playoffs twice in twenty years, or what not, then it's likely people will lose interest. People in general don't like cheering for losers forever with no payback. But if you can put a decent hockey team in an area and get locals exposed to the sport, doesn't it stand to reason that they're going to enjoy it for much of the same reasons you or I do?



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788197 is a reply to message #788194 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73  is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Adam wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 16:42

By all accounts, the Knights have had pretty good support in Las Vegas since getting there.

It's hard to not get support when your brand-new expansion team makes it all the way to the Stanley Cup final in its FIRST year of existence.

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 16:42

I expect the football team will do really well. When I was there in 2017, there were no shortage of locals who mentioned how excited they were about it.

I'd be willing to bet that even more people in Los Angeles said this before the Rams and Raiders moved elsewhere, given that their city's population is about 9 times larger than that of Las Vegas. The Chargers and returned Rams may fare better thanks to having a brand-new stadium, I will grant.

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 16:42

I don't really understand Canadians who think that hockey will never appeal to people in sunny places. I mean, if it's your favourite sport, then isn't it likely there's something exciting for people to get in to if they're exposed to it?

I don't think that hockey will *never* appeal to people in sunny places, just that it will not beat out sports like baseball and football. Trying to expand too fast into areas that do not have any sort of tradition with supporting a particular sport is risky- just look at the Coyotes and their financial troubles for an example.

Adam wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 16:42

I'll agree that if they see miserable hockey - if the team makes the playoffs twice in twenty years, or what not, then it's likely people will lose interest. People in general don't like cheering for losers forever with no payback. But if you can put a decent hockey team in an area and get locals exposed to the sport, doesn't it stand to reason that they're going to enjoy it for much of the same reasons you or I do?

I imagine that this was what Bettman was thinking when the league "coincidentally" changed the expansion draft rules when the VGK came into the league. After all, it's easier to get people to jump on the bandwagon of a winner than a team that goes through what every previous expansion team has had to go through in terms of success, right? I said it before and I will say it again: the true test of a fanbase's devotion to their team will come when that team starts playing at a mediocre or awful level. I will revise my opinion of the level of local support for the VGK if their arena remains packed once the team comes back down to earth.

I have noticed that VGK fans have become quite obnoxious in the wake of their team's unprecedented success as a new one. One thread in their HF forum discusses how fans of other teams hate the VGK because of jealousy and how their team did not in fact get any help in the form of revised expansion draft rules, which also displays their average level of hockey knowledge (or lack thereof) to boot.

[Updated on: Wed, 23 June 2021 17:21]


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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788200 is a reply to message #785046 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Poor Kuch. May actually be hurt now.

https://twitter.com/twistedleafs/status/1407861621465178114? s=20

Oh well. Hard time feeling bad for the guy. Karma kinda demands at least 1 month of real injury to make up for the extra month+ he faked being hurt to get his cap hit to not count.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788206 is a reply to message #788200 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 21:04

Poor Kuch. May actually be hurt now.

https://twitter.com/twistedleafs/status/1407861621465178114? s=20

Oh well. Hard time feeling bad for the guy. Karma kinda demands at least 1 month of real injury to make up for the extra month+ he faked being hurt to get his cap hit to not count.

I figure it's unrelated to the crosscheck. He just came back too soon. Can't blame the guy, it's the playoffs, but he should be thinking longterm with this stuff.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788208 is a reply to message #788200 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 20:04

Poor Kuch. May actually be hurt now.

https://twitter.com/twistedleafs/status/1407861621465178114? s=20

Oh well. Hard time feeling bad for the guy. Karma kinda demands at least 1 month of real injury to make up for the extra month+ he faked being hurt to get his cap hit to not count.


Karma tends to have a pretty good memory ..



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788209 is a reply to message #788208 ]
Wed, 23 June 2021 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 23:26

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 23 June 2021 20:04

Poor Kuch. May actually be hurt now.

https://twitter.com/twistedleafs/status/1407861621465178114? s=20

Oh well. Hard time feeling bad for the guy. Karma kinda demands at least 1 month of real injury to make up for the extra month+ he faked being hurt to get his cap hit to not count.


Karma tends to have a pretty good memory ..


Saw some crying about how unfair the universe is that a player like Mayfield can injure a god like Kuch and what a useless nothing player Mayfield is. Mayfield goes on to scoring the 2-2 goal to send the game to OT for the Islander to win.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/e7/2f/aee72fd7530ce5deae7209ffe6df76c0.gif



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788210 is a reply to message #788209 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I theorize that the NHL's position on refereeing comes down to the fact that both these series are close and headed to have 13 or 14 games in the semi-finals. They'll believe that if the penalties were all called, it would be more lopsided, and series would end sooner - which they don't think people want to see. They think game 7s are what people get most excited about, so why have it end early just because one team is more skilled?

I really get the vitriol against Kucherov and the Lightning, but it's pretty ridiculous that one of the league's star players can get injured with a blatant hard crosscheck, and the refs don't even call a minor penalty.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788211 is a reply to message #788210 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 24 June 2021 00:18

I theorize that the NHL's position on refereeing comes down to the fact that both these series are close and headed to have 13 or 14 games in the semi-finals. They'll believe that if the penalties were all called, it would be more lopsided, and series would end sooner - which they don't think people want to see. They think game 7s are what people get most excited about, so why have it end early just because one team is more skilled?

I really get the vitriol against Kucherov and the Lightning, but it's pretty ridiculous that one of the league's star players can get injured with a blatant hard crosscheck, and the refs don't even call a minor penalty.


Hehe, any other player and I would complain :)

I think the ref looking at the cross-check was Chris Lee, which is becoming a running joke through the playoffs. Same guy that ignored a sucker punch on Suzuki in the Montreal series a few days ago, and has been part of various reffing clown shows through the playoffs.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 June 2021 08:34]


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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788215 is a reply to message #788210 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Thu, 24 June 2021 00:18

I theorize that the NHL's position on refereeing comes down to the fact that both these series are close and headed to have 13 or 14 games in the semi-finals. They'll believe that if the penalties were all called, it would be more lopsided, and series would end sooner - which they don't think people want to see. They think game 7s are what people get most excited about, so why have it end early just because one team is more skilled?

I really get the vitriol against Kucherov and the Lightning, but it's pretty ridiculous that one of the league's star players can get injured with a blatant hard crosscheck, and the refs don't even call a minor penalty.



Not a theorist, but are you leaning towards lots of penalties in favour of Vegas tonight and TBay tomorrow to one, prolong the series and two, get Tampa into the Finals again?

The cynic in me says the NHL definitely want this to happen, but the realist tells me that people in general cannot keep a secret and if this were to be true, then someone would have let it slip.



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 Re: 2021 Playoffs Thread (OOT) [message #788219 is a reply to message #788215 ]
Thu, 24 June 2021 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I don't like how each of the series have been officiated. I think its about as bad as I have seen. But I won't lie, seeing cheater Kucherov get hurt didn't outrage me as much. I don't like seeing any player getting hurt but sometimes karma comes back to bite you.

I am pretty torn. I don't want cheaters Tampa to win but I can't stand how the Islanders play. I want speed and skill in the game, not drag them down, beat on them till they drop, defensive hockey. Same goes for Vegas. I am not a fan of Vegas and don't want them to do well but I can't stand how the Habs play.

If it ends up being a Habs vs Islanders series, that will be brutal, nasty hockey that might take the game back many, many years as it's a copycat league at times.



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