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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770314 is a reply to message #770288 ]	Thu, 03 December 2020 15:35

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 12:23

I have to disagree here. I think Koskinen has been excellent at best and mediocre at worst. I don't think he was really bad in the playin (Smith definitely was bad there!), and without SnowAngel on defense, and a healthy Klefbom (he was terrible but now we know injured) the Oilers are at least in the 2nd round of the actual playoffs.

.889 save percentage, allowing 11 goals in 3 and a half games on 99 shots against including a lot of struggles in handling long shots from the point and controlling rebounds.

19 of those shots (and 18 of his saves) came in game 1 when Smith had already lost the game for the Oilers by the time he took the net, so in the other 3 games, he allowed 10 goals on 80 shots - good for .875 save percentage and ~3.33 GAA (slightly off due to empty nets)

If you look at any NHL goalie you can say they're excellent at best - most have had some good games where they got shutouts, but it's been rare for Koskinen to hold that for any period of time. Worth noting in the article RDOF shared, he played way less games than anyone else in his comparison set.

If the thought is that Koskinen had a mediocre first campaign and a better second campaign so maybe his trajectory is up, I think it's important to remember how old he is. Guys on the wrong end of 30 rarely get better and better. Last year is probably peak performance and he wasn't good enough that the coach had confidence to use him in even half the games, or to start him as the first guy out in the playoffs - and that's despite the fact that most shooter tutors stop more than Mike Smith did last year in both regular season and playoffs.

I think you have to be concerned about netminding if you're an Oilers fan, because there's very little to suggest that this is a tandem that can get us anywhere near a championship.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770321 is a reply to message #770314 ]	Thu, 03 December 2020 16:16

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 15:35

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 12:23

I have to disagree here. I think Koskinen has been excellent at best and mediocre at worst. I don't think he was really bad in the playin (Smith definitely was bad there!), and without SnowAngel on defense, and a healthy Klefbom (he was terrible but now we know injured) the Oilers are at least in the 2nd round of the actual playoffs.

.889 save percentage, allowing 11 goals in 3 and a half games on 99 shots against including a lot of struggles in handling long shots from the point and controlling rebounds.

19 of those shots (and 18 of his saves) came in game 1 when Smith had already lost the game for the Oilers by the time he took the net, so in the other 3 games, he allowed 10 goals on 80 shots - good for .875 save percentage and ~3.33 GAA (slightly off due to empty nets)

If you look at any NHL goalie you can say they're excellent at best - most have had some good games where they got shutouts, but it's been rare for Koskinen to hold that for any period of time. Worth noting in the article RDOF shared, he played way less games than anyone else in his comparison set.

If the thought is that Koskinen had a mediocre first campaign and a better second campaign so maybe his trajectory is up, I think it's important to remember how old he is. Guys on the wrong end of 30 rarely get better and better. Last year is probably peak performance and he wasn't good enough that the coach had confidence to use him in even half the games, or to start him as the first guy out in the playoffs - and that's despite the fact that most shooter tutors stop more than Mike Smith did last year in both regular season and playoffs.

I think you have to be concerned about netminding if you're an Oilers fan, because there's very little to suggest that this is a tandem that can get us anywhere near a championship.

That is also the definition of a small sample size though. Looking at the goals, Chicago was picking corners. Fluke deflections up high. He had bad luck, and Crawford was getting good luck as we put everything along the ice for him and choked on good chances.

We probably had a shot to win with Koskinen if we didn't spot Chicago a free game. It was just a bummer 4 games of not being able to finish and Chicago just putting their heads down picking corners along with Russell making sweet tips.

Not to say Koskinen is great, but I still don't fault him that much for the series loss. Can blame our players just as much for flubbing loads of chances and making Crawford's life easier than it should have been.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770322 is a reply to message #770314 ]	Thu, 03 December 2020 16:17

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

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Adam wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 15:35

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 12:23

I have to disagree here. I think Koskinen has been excellent at best and mediocre at worst. I don't think he was really bad in the playin (Smith definitely was bad there!), and without SnowAngel on defense, and a healthy Klefbom (he was terrible but now we know injured) the Oilers are at least in the 2nd round of the actual playoffs.

.889 save percentage, allowing 11 goals in 3 and a half games on 99 shots against including a lot of struggles in handling long shots from the point and controlling rebounds.

19 of those shots (and 18 of his saves) came in game 1 when Smith had already lost the game for the Oilers by the time he took the net, so in the other 3 games, he allowed 10 goals on 80 shots - good for .875 save percentage and ~3.33 GAA (slightly off due to empty nets)

If you look at any NHL goalie you can say they're excellent at best - most have had some good games where they got shutouts, but it's been rare for Koskinen to hold that for any period of time. Worth noting in the article RDOF shared, he played way less games than anyone else in his comparison set.

If the thought is that Koskinen had a mediocre first campaign and a better second campaign so maybe his trajectory is up, I think it's important to remember how old he is. Guys on the wrong end of 30 rarely get better and better. Last year is probably peak performance and he wasn't good enough that the coach had confidence to use him in even half the games, or to start him as the first guy out in the playoffs - and that's despite the fact that most shooter tutors stop more than Mike Smith did last year in both regular season and playoffs.

I think you have to be concerned about netminding if you're an Oilers fan, because there's very little to suggest that this is a tandem that can get us anywhere near a championship.

You are right, he did play less games. What evidence do you have that he if he played 10 more games like Markstrom that his numbers would have tanked? If you do, please share with me as I would love to see it.

It find it kind of funny, you are big on sample size. So your entire argument is literally off 3 games. He played 34 games last year and had pretty good numbers but in 3 games where the entire team sucked ass, you have decided he's lousy.

Hellebuyck won the vezina this past season. In the play in he played in 4 games and the Jets lost to Calgary. Hellebuck had a 3.04GA and .904% Talbot in that series had a 1.5 GA, 0.943% and 1 shut out.
So Talbot is better than Helleybuch right because in 4 games, he had WAY better numbers?

My guess is that you are going to say that Helleybuck is superior to Talbot. I think Helleybuck is clearly better but I ask you why you would say Helleybuck is better because if you use the Koskinen sample size logic that your argument is using, Talbot should be your answer because the numbers in that play in aren't close.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770324 is a reply to message #770322 ]	Thu, 03 December 2020 16:25

CrudeRemarks
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Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 16:17

What evidence do you have that he if he played 10 more games like Markstrom that his numbers would have tanked?

https://www.reddit.com/r/EdmontonOilers/comments/8ef8uh/5_go alies_to_compare_khl_and_nhl_numbers/

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=112570

Koskinen is blending out to around .910 and his D will be worse this season without somebody emerging as a top 4 guy.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770327 is a reply to message #770324 ]	Thu, 03 December 2020 16:48

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 16:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 16:17

What evidence do you have that he if he played 10 more games like Markstrom that his numbers would have tanked?

https://www.reddit.com/r/EdmontonOilers/comments/8ef8uh/5_go alies_to_compare_khl_and_nhl_numbers/

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=112570

Koskinen is blending out to around .910 and his D will be worse this season without somebody emerging as a top 4 guy.

I guess we will find out won't we.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770282 is a reply to message #770268 ]	Thu, 03 December 2020 11:14

RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 09:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 03 December 2020 08:23

So they have add 5 better offensively forwards to help with scoring to start the year. 3 of them weren't with the team at all in the play in, the biggest addition being Turris. I believe you have to have 3 good centers to win. The Oilers has 2 elite centers, 1 4th line center in Sheahan in the 3 hole who was awful in the play in and a bubble NHLer as their 4th.

They are WAY better in my opinion.

I agree it looks like the best offseason in a long time. I think they’re going to leak goals against though. It will be interesting to see if the improved depth scoring out scores the weakened D.

They will leak goals because why? 1 dman in Klefbom is hurt so that means the entire defense is screwed based on 1 guy?

I look at the Oilers defense to start last season:
Klef - Larsson
Nurse -Bear
Russell Benning

So their defense which was good enough to be first or second in their division had 2 guys who were lousy skaters in Larsson and Benning. 3 guys who couldn't move the puck basically at all. Larsson, Russel and Benning could barely make a 15 ft pass on a regular basis. Had 2 guys who were OK at moving the puck in Klefbom and Nurse and 1 guy who could actually pass the puck on a regular basis. If you look at the pairings, the Nurse - Bear pairing was the only pairing that had a good skater and puck mover. Klefbom was an OK skater but not great and an OK puck mover. If he was at all off in his skating or puck moving, that pairing got crushed because Larsson couldn't do anything other than beat on people as long as they didn't skate past him. The entire defense core provided not a lot of offense. The Oilers had a record setting PP and Klefbom could muster 34 pts in 62 games. So 45 pts in 82. So not bad but that's it? What could Barrie have done last season? 60 pts maybe more?

I look at this season and the potential pairings.

Nurse - Bear
Jones - Larsson
Russell - Barrie

So every pair has a really good skating dman - Nurse, Jones, Barrie and Russell is a good skater.
Every pair has a real good puck mover - Bear, Jones, Barrie.
Every pair as a decent defender - Nurse, Larsson, Russell. Russel isn't a world beater but if a person takes there personal feelings about him out especially when it comes to the contract, he defends alright.

What about natural progression in players? Nurse is only 25 and only has 350 games and he seems to get better each year. Dmen typically get better with experience. Unless you think Bear as already peaked, you have to think with experience, he will be at least a little better? Same goes with Jones. I think he's got all the tools to be a real good dman. Barrie is going to improve the Oilers puck moving and skating a lot. The days of the big, nasty, stay at home, can't skate dman are basically gone. Larsson's NHL days are probably numbered. The game has gone to skating and puck moving from the defense. So if the Oilers have a defense that can actually skate the puck out when needed and actually make tape to tape passes vs banging it off the glass, in theory, the less time they are in their zone, the less defending they will have to do. They also improved skill wise at forward. They won't be playing AHLers in the NHL. They won't be playing 4th liners on the 3rd line. So I don't see the Oilers leaking goals, I think they will probably be about the same as last year goals against wise but will improve goals for.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770236 is a reply to message #767257 ]	Wed, 02 December 2020 14:33

mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

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The way I see it, the Oilers have:

First pairing: Klefbom (when healthy), Bear
Second pairing: Nurse, Jones, Barrie, Larsson
Third pairing: Russell, Lagesson

Young players you ideally want to break in on the third pairing: Bouchard, Broberg, Samorukov, etc.

They have a pretty robust middle, but even putting Bear in the top-pairing might be a slight stretch. With Klefbom out, they don't have those first pairing guys, let alone a #1 stud. The loss of Klefbom is the main reason I think the Oilers will take a step back, despite improving their depth (that, and not upgrading the goaltending). Barrie was a great addition, but he shouldn't be viewed as a replacement.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770885 is a reply to message #770236 ]	Mon, 21 December 2020 12:35

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

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Holland on Stauffer's show confirmed finally that Klefbom is out for this coming season. He's going to be exploring his options with hopes to be back for next season. At least they know and my guess is we will see a Bear contract real quick now that they will have Klefbom's salary available for LTIR.

I'd leave him exposed for the expansion draft if I was the Oilers. He hasn't played hockey since August and was dealing with this since mid February. So he could be approaching almost a year when the season starts of dealing with this and he's no closer to knowing what to do yet or if he can play next season. Big time red flags if you ask me.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770886 is a reply to message #770885 ]	Mon, 21 December 2020 12:39

Adam
Messages: 6824
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 12:35

Holland on Stauffer's show confirmed finally that Klefbom is out for this coming season. He's going to be exploring his options with hopes to be back for next season. At least they know and my guess is we will see a Bear contract real quick now that they will have Klefbom's salary available for LTIR.

I'd leave him exposed for the expansion draft if I was the Oilers. He hasn't played hockey since August and was dealing with this since mid February. So he could be approaching almost a year when the season starts of dealing with this and he's no closer to knowing what to do yet or if he can play next season. Big time red flags if you ask me.

Apparently with LTIR, it makes a difference when you declare it, so Klefbom's not likely to be placed on reserve until the start of the season. Depending on what the dollar figure looks like, Bear's contract might need to wait.

Stauffer was suggesting that the Oilers may have another 6/7 defenceman lined up to be signed too.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770887 is a reply to message #770886 ]	Mon, 21 December 2020 12:44

RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 12:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 12:35

Holland on Stauffer's show confirmed finally that Klefbom is out for this coming season. He's going to be exploring his options with hopes to be back for next season. At least they know and my guess is we will see a Bear contract real quick now that they will have Klefbom's salary available for LTIR.

I'd leave him exposed for the expansion draft if I was the Oilers. He hasn't played hockey since August and was dealing with this since mid February. So he could be approaching almost a year when the season starts of dealing with this and he's no closer to knowing what to do yet or if he can play next season. Big time red flags if you ask me.

Apparently with LTIR, it makes a difference when you declare it, so Klefbom's not likely to be placed on reserve until the start of the season. Depending on what the dollar figure looks like, Bear's contract might need to wait.

Stauffer was suggesting that the Oilers may have another 6/7 defenceman lined up to be signed too.

I heard Hart Levine who knows the CBA and how it works really well on various shows over the last few months. He said it's best to be cap compliant right when the roster is to be set then you put Klef on LTIR so you get his full amount. The Oilers with Klef are 242K over as of right now. So my guess is they make a paper transaction to get under, put Klef on LTIR to get his full amount then a Bear contract gets announced once they have the full amount.

I wonder if a guy like Koekkeok makes sense as an exact dman? He was pretty solid for the hawks. Left shot, skates really well, moves the puck really well. 26.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 December 2020 12:54]

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770896 is a reply to message #770887 ]	Mon, 21 December 2020 17:55

PlusOne
Messages: 1525
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 13:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 12:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 12:35

Holland on Stauffer's show confirmed finally that Klefbom is out for this coming season. He's going to be exploring his options with hopes to be back for next season. At least they know and my guess is we will see a Bear contract real quick now that they will have Klefbom's salary available for LTIR.

I'd leave him exposed for the expansion draft if I was the Oilers. He hasn't played hockey since August and was dealing with this since mid February. So he could be approaching almost a year when the season starts of dealing with this and he's no closer to knowing what to do yet or if he can play next season. Big time red flags if you ask me.

Apparently with LTIR, it makes a difference when you declare it, so Klefbom's not likely to be placed on reserve until the start of the season. Depending on what the dollar figure looks like, Bear's contract might need to wait.

Stauffer was suggesting that the Oilers may have another 6/7 defenceman lined up to be signed too.

I heard Hart Levine who knows the CBA and how it works really well on various shows over the last few months. He said it's best to be cap compliant right when the roster is to be set then you put Klef on LTIR so you get his full amount. The Oilers with Klef are 242K over as of right now. So my guess is they make a paper transaction to get under, put Klef on LTIR to get his full amount then a Bear contract gets announced once they have the full amount.

I wonder if a guy like Koekkeok makes sense as an exact dman? He was pretty solid for the hawks. Left shot, skates really well, moves the puck really well. 26.

On NHL radio this morning they were talking a lot about Sami Vatanen. Right handed and can play the right side but apparently prefers the left.
He is only 29 and if the price is right it wouldnt hurt to have someone who can play both sides. He is rarely mistaken fore a physical force but does most other things decent enough. Wouldnt hurt to have a swiss army knife back there to plug into different scenarios as injuries and inevitable covid scratches happen.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770897 is a reply to message #770896 ]	Mon, 21 December 2020 19:36

Gator21
Messages: 152
Registered: February 2016
Location: Kelowna, BC

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With this extra money let's go big this year and sign Hoffman, Chara, Hamonic and Anthanasiou for a mil each icon_nod

icon_nod

Lord Stanley here we come!

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770987 is a reply to message #770897 ]	Sun, 27 December 2020 20:53

GabbyDugan
Messages: 828
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Gator21 wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 19:36

With this extra money let's go big this year and sign Hoffman, Chara, Hamonic and Anthanasiou for a mil each icon_nod

icon_nod

Lord Stanley here we come!

Well, Hoffman is out of the picture for the Oilers for now.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/mike-hoffman-joining-bl ues-non-guaranteed-tryout-contract/

"There were a lot of "huhs?" and "whats?" when the St. Louis Blues announced on Sunday that Mike Hoffman is joining the team on a non-guaranteed tryout contract, but plenty is happening beneath the surface.

There was, I believe, a lot of interest in the superb shooter across the NHL. But, at a time when the market for forwards absolutely cratered — only Taylor Hall, Tyler Toffoli, Mikael Granlund and Craig Smith signed for $3 million — it became clear Hoffman was going to carefully consider his best fit."

Just because Hoffman is going to be on a PTO with the Blues doesn't mean he can't sign with another NHL team. However, I don't the the wiggle room opened up by Klefbom LTIR is enough to attract Hoffman here, especially with Bear still needing a contract.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #770900 is a reply to message #770887 ]	Mon, 21 December 2020 20:51

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 12:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 12:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 21 December 2020 12:35

Holland on Stauffer's show confirmed finally that Klefbom is out for this coming season. He's going to be exploring his options with hopes to be back for next season. At least they know and my guess is we will see a Bear contract real quick now that they will have Klefbom's salary available for LTIR.

I'd leave him exposed for the expansion draft if I was the Oilers. He hasn't played hockey since August and was dealing with this since mid February. So he could be approaching almost a year when the season starts of dealing with this and he's no closer to knowing what to do yet or if he can play next season. Big time red flags if you ask me.

Apparently with LTIR, it makes a difference when you declare it, so Klefbom's not likely to be placed on reserve until the start of the season. Depending on what the dollar figure looks like, Bear's contract might need to wait.

Stauffer was suggesting that the Oilers may have another 6/7 defenceman lined up to be signed too.

I heard Hart Levine who knows the CBA and how it works really well on various shows over the last few months. He said it's best to be cap compliant right when the roster is to be set then you put Klef on LTIR so you get his full amount. The Oilers with Klef are 242K over as of right now. So my guess is they make a paper transaction to get under, put Klef on LTIR to get his full amount then a Bear contract gets announced once they have the full amount.

I wonder if a guy like Koekkeok makes sense as an exact dman? He was pretty solid for the hawks. Left shot, skates really well, moves the puck really well. 26.

It's a funny rule, the LTIR before season start. I guess the reasoning would be that if you know a guy is out long term and you go into the season exceeding that cap, that must mean you've already replaced that player. What other good reason do you have to be over the cap already? So whatever your cap is to the the season, that becomes your max. Which is terrible if you have a guy out with a 4.1M cap hit and you're only over 500k or something to start the year. You've just lost yourself 3.6M of space.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #774911 is a reply to message #767257 ]	Wed, 03 February 2021 15:19

Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Sounds like surgery for Klef

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
"Oscar is planning on having surgery and then I we can find out what the odds are of him coming back and what would the timeline be. It isn't just about the NHL giving us direction (exp draft), but also what the doctor says if he can play and how long rehab will be." Holland

Gregor also brought up how Klef will indeed satisfy the games missed requirement for exclusion from needing protecting, but still need the "likely career ending injury" part of it. Somehow would need to argue Klef is likely done if we want to keep him without protecting through the expansion draft. Lou would make it happen of course, but Holland is probably one of those honest to a fault guys.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #774912 is a reply to message #774911 ]	Wed, 03 February 2021 15:31

mightyreasoner
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:19

Sounds like surgery for Klef

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
"Oscar is planning on having surgery and then I we can find out what the odds are of him coming back and what would the timeline be. It isn't just about the NHL giving us direction (exp draft), but also what the doctor says if he can play and how long rehab will be." Holland

Gregor also brought up how Klef will indeed satisfy the games missed requirement for exclusion from needing protecting, but still need the "likely career ending injury" part of it. Somehow would need to argue Klef is likely done if we want to keep him without protecting through the expansion draft. Lou would make it happen of course, but Holland is probably one of those honest to a fault guys.

If there's a cloud of mystery about if he's a permanent LTIR player though, you probably could leave him exposed. That's probably not how Seattle wants to start building their team.

That said - huge hole for the Oilers. They don't have anyone to replace him, and they need to start looking, IMO. There's no guarantee he is the same player after surgery, even if he does come back.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #774913 is a reply to message #774912 ]	Wed, 03 February 2021 15:38

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:31

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:19

Sounds like surgery for Klef

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
"Oscar is planning on having surgery and then I we can find out what the odds are of him coming back and what would the timeline be. It isn't just about the NHL giving us direction (exp draft), but also what the doctor says if he can play and how long rehab will be." Holland

Gregor also brought up how Klef will indeed satisfy the games missed requirement for exclusion from needing protecting, but still need the "likely career ending injury" part of it. Somehow would need to argue Klef is likely done if we want to keep him without protecting through the expansion draft. Lou would make it happen of course, but Holland is probably one of those honest to a fault guys.

If there's a cloud of mystery about if he's a permanent LTIR player though, you probably could leave him exposed. That's probably not how Seattle wants to start building their team.

That said - huge hole for the Oilers. They don't have anyone to replace him, and they need to start looking, IMO. There's no guarantee he is the same player after surgery, even if he does come back.

Guess it depends what else we expose if we do just put Klef out there as available. If there is a hint he's going to come back, I think I would take a chance. He's a very good player if healthy, even not, he played last year barely shooting and still was very useful.

LTIR can be valuable too. Teams up against the cap could actually want LTIR players to let them go over the cap. If we're just exposing junk along with Klef, Seattle could turn Klef into more assets with a team looking for some LTIR space like the Laffs needed to extend Marner.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #774916 is a reply to message #774913 ]	Wed, 03 February 2021 15:47

mightyreasoner
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:38

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:31

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:19

Sounds like surgery for Klef

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
"Oscar is planning on having surgery and then I we can find out what the odds are of him coming back and what would the timeline be. It isn't just about the NHL giving us direction (exp draft), but also what the doctor says if he can play and how long rehab will be." Holland

Gregor also brought up how Klef will indeed satisfy the games missed requirement for exclusion from needing protecting, but still need the "likely career ending injury" part of it. Somehow would need to argue Klef is likely done if we want to keep him without protecting through the expansion draft. Lou would make it happen of course, but Holland is probably one of those honest to a fault guys.

If there's a cloud of mystery about if he's a permanent LTIR player though, you probably could leave him exposed. That's probably not how Seattle wants to start building their team.

That said - huge hole for the Oilers. They don't have anyone to replace him, and they need to start looking, IMO. There's no guarantee he is the same player after surgery, even if he does come back.

Guess it depends what else we expose if we do just put Klef out there as available. If there is a hint he's going to come back, I think I would take a chance. He's a very good player if healthy, even not, he played last year barely shooting and still was very useful.

LTIR can be valuable too. Teams up against the cap could actually want LTIR players to let them go over the cap. If we're just exposing junk along with Klef, Seattle could turn Klef into more assets with a team looking for some LTIR space like the Laffs needed to extend Marner.

Yeah, it'll be interesting. If they do protect Klefbom, they are exposing (and likely losing) one of Caleb Jones or Jesse Puljujarvi. Both are guys with upside and trending well and contributing on the ice; both are great value players on a team that needs them.

Of course, neither is more important than Klefbom if he is healthy and returns to normal. But both are more valuable if Klefbom is out long-term or done outright. They'll want to have a pretty good idea where he is at and how likely it is he returns to normal.

Probably Kassian or Benson are the most enticing players outside of Jones and Klefbom if they go 7/3 F/D.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #774920 is a reply to message #774916 ]	Wed, 03 February 2021 16:08

Kr55
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:47

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:38

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:31

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:19

Sounds like surgery for Klef

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
"Oscar is planning on having surgery and then I we can find out what the odds are of him coming back and what would the timeline be. It isn't just about the NHL giving us direction (exp draft), but also what the doctor says if he can play and how long rehab will be." Holland

Gregor also brought up how Klef will indeed satisfy the games missed requirement for exclusion from needing protecting, but still need the "likely career ending injury" part of it. Somehow would need to argue Klef is likely done if we want to keep him without protecting through the expansion draft. Lou would make it happen of course, but Holland is probably one of those honest to a fault guys.

If there's a cloud of mystery about if he's a permanent LTIR player though, you probably could leave him exposed. That's probably not how Seattle wants to start building their team.

That said - huge hole for the Oilers. They don't have anyone to replace him, and they need to start looking, IMO. There's no guarantee he is the same player after surgery, even if he does come back.

Guess it depends what else we expose if we do just put Klef out there as available. If there is a hint he's going to come back, I think I would take a chance. He's a very good player if healthy, even not, he played last year barely shooting and still was very useful.

LTIR can be valuable too. Teams up against the cap could actually want LTIR players to let them go over the cap. If we're just exposing junk along with Klef, Seattle could turn Klef into more assets with a team looking for some LTIR space like the Laffs needed to extend Marner.

Yeah, it'll be interesting. If they do protect Klefbom, they are exposing (and likely losing) one of Caleb Jones or Jesse Puljujarvi. Both are guys with upside and trending well and contributing on the ice; both are great value players on a team that needs them.

Of course, neither is more important than Klefbom if he is healthy and returns to normal. But both are more valuable if Klefbom is out long-term or done outright. They'll want to have a pretty good idea where he is at and how likely it is he returns to normal.

Probably Kassian or Benson are the most enticing players outside of Jones and Klefbom if they go 7/3 F/D.

Definitely gets interesting if Klef is in that questionable zone that just maybe he'll come back. I wish we could game the system for once. Especially after that 3rd pick to Calgary garbage.

Like when Lucky Lou called up Lupul to get the lies back in order for him to stay on LTIR after Lupul's ego made him mess up and counter someone online that said he was not able to play. Get Klef in line that his career is basically over, get through the draft without having to protect him, and have a miracle recovery in September. For the good of the team! ;)

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- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #774924 is a reply to message #774920 ]	Wed, 03 February 2021 16:18

Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 16:08

Definitely gets interesting if Klef is in that questionable zone that just maybe he'll come back. I wish we could game the system for once. Especially after that 3rd pick to Calgary garbage.

Like when Lucky Lou called up Lupul to get the lies back in order for him to stay on LTIR after Lupul's ego made him mess up and counter someone online that said he was not able to play. Get Klef in line that his career is basically over, get through the draft without having to protect him, and have a miracle recovery in September. For the good of the team! ;)

It would be awfully nice to see the Oilers take advantage of the system instead of having it take advantage of us for a change. From Bengt Gustafsson to James Neal, it does seem like any time there is any kind of jump ball, the league decides against us, so maybe we're due for a break.

All else being equal, if we don't have clear visibility on Klefbom's recovery, I don't think the team should protect him. It would be a travesty to lose a good player and then have him retire without being able to play - or maybe worse yet, return as a shell of what he was.

If I'm Seattle, I might make the bet on him if he's exposed. We'll have mostly junk other than that, and they have 30 picks. They can't all be on their roster, so it makes sense to gamble with a few of them. If I'm Ken Holland, I'd be seeing if they're willing to take a 4th round pick or so in order to select James Neal and take that cap hit off our books.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #774914 is a reply to message #774912 ]	Wed, 03 February 2021 15:40

CrudeRemarks
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:31

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 03 February 2021 15:19

Sounds like surgery for Klef

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
"Oscar is planning on having surgery and then I we can find out what the odds are of him coming back and what would the timeline be. It isn't just about the NHL giving us direction (exp draft), but also what the doctor says if he can play and how long rehab will be." Holland

Gregor also brought up how Klef will indeed satisfy the games missed requirement for exclusion from needing protecting, but still need the "likely career ending injury" part of it. Somehow would need to argue Klef is likely done if we want to keep him without protecting through the expansion draft. Lou would make it happen of course, but Holland is probably one of those honest to a fault guys.

If there's a cloud of mystery about if he's a permanent LTIR player though, you probably could leave him exposed. That's probably not how Seattle wants to start building their team.

That said - huge hole for the Oilers. They don't have anyone to replace him, and they need to start looking, IMO. There's no guarantee he is the same player after surgery, even if he does come back.

He'll be 28 at the start of next season. With injuries and age, if he comes back he will not be as good. we have him under contract until 2022-23, maybe he could be trade bait for a team looking to take a chance. I've always liked him but watching Barrie and Bouchard pound the puck you really see how his shot just doesn't have the same combination of velocity and accuracy.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #774917 is a reply to message #774911 ]	Wed, 03 February 2021 15:50

RDOilerfan
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First thing that jumps out to me is that Holland doesn't say, he will be back or talk about timeframes, etc that you normally hear with an injury, he says ODDS of coming back. I would guess that if surgery is the way Klefbom is going, it must be likely it will improve him but there is no guarantee it will be enough for him to play hockey game. That is a HUGE red flag to me. If he is able to come back, how healthy will he actually be. This isn't the first procedure he's had on his shoulder before. So if he doesn't qualify for the injury exemption, no way I would protect him.

If I think about it, if they protect him, that probably means they would go 4-4-1. So assuming they resign Nuge, they would protect, McD, Leon, Nuge, Yamo. So that means a guy like JP or maybe Kahun if he is resigned is left unprotected just to name a couple. No way I am letting one of those 2 go to save a Klefbom who in all likelihood will never be 100% again and who knows if he gets bumped the wrong way, he could be done. I always liked him as a damn but just too risky.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779231 is a reply to message #767257 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 13:36

Kr55
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Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779232 is a reply to message #779231 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 13:48

RDOilerfan
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So assuming the surgery is a success and he can play hockey again which there is no guarantee it will. With a 6-8 month recovery, he's probably not available until close to Christmas. But then he hasn't played a single game of hockey in at least a year and a half. So assuming he can come back, next season will probably be mostly a lost season for him. Hopefully in his final year of his contract he's back to his former self though my bet is if he plays hockey, he won't be as good.

The worst case is he comes back, tries it for a bit, doesn't totally feel right and rather than risk going back to square 1, he pulls the pin and retires.

If the league decides to screw the Oilers again and doesn't make him exempt, I would not under any circumstance protect Klefbom. Let Seattle deal with him and the potential mine field he could be.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779233 is a reply to message #779231 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779234 is a reply to message #779233 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 13:56

Kr55
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

We'll probably have to protect him and then if we expose him, NHL will force us to give up a 3rd round pick if Seattle takes him, just as compensation to Seattle for him being out until Christmas or later. Thems are the (Oilers) rules!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779235 is a reply to message #779233 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 14:03

RDOilerfan
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

If I am Klefbom, I would take the full recovery time given his history and problems he has had. I am not rushing to get back if it's even possible.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779239 is a reply to message #779235 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 14:30

CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:03

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

If I am Klefbom, I would take the full recovery time given his history and problems he has had. I am not rushing to get back if it's even possible.

If I'm the Kraken, I'm thinking the same thing

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779240 is a reply to message #779239 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 14:35

Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:03

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

If I am Klefbom, I would take the full recovery time given his history and problems he has had. I am not rushing to get back if it's even possible.

If I'm the Kraken, I'm thinking the same thing

If you're the Kraken GM, and the best player the Oilers is exposing is William Lagesson and Klefbom is unprotected and not exempt, do you roll the dice?

I think I might. There's going to be 30-odd Lagesson's available so they'll have lots of those guys to pick from on other squads. If they pick Klefbom and he doesn't work out? So what - it's just as much as the Golden Knights ended up out of Edmonton and there's still 29 other people they're picking. If he comes back, he's probably their best defenceman.

I think I would take the gamble.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779246 is a reply to message #779240 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 15:07

Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:35

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:03

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

If I am Klefbom, I would take the full recovery time given his history and problems he has had. I am not rushing to get back if it's even possible.

If I'm the Kraken, I'm thinking the same thing

If you're the Kraken GM, and the best player the Oilers is exposing is William Lagesson and Klefbom is unprotected and not exempt, do you roll the dice?

I think I might. There's going to be 30-odd Lagesson's available so they'll have lots of those guys to pick from on other squads. If they pick Klefbom and he doesn't work out? So what - it's just as much as the Golden Knights ended up out of Edmonton and there's still 29 other people they're picking. If he comes back, he's probably their best defenceman.

I think I would take the gamble.

The kicker will probably be how we present Klef's progress. Not sure we are sneaky enough around here to not proudly announce all his positive progress after his surgery (if it is indeed positive). Klef has 2 more years and even when he could barely shoot last year, he was our most relied on D on a team that was well on the way to the playoffs. That's a pretty good player to potentially get healed up midway through the 21/22 season.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779249 is a reply to message #779246 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 15:55

Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 15:07

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:35

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:03

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

If I am Klefbom, I would take the full recovery time given his history and problems he has had. I am not rushing to get back if it's even possible.

If I'm the Kraken, I'm thinking the same thing

If you're the Kraken GM, and the best player the Oilers is exposing is William Lagesson and Klefbom is unprotected and not exempt, do you roll the dice?

I think I might. There's going to be 30-odd Lagesson's available so they'll have lots of those guys to pick from on other squads. If they pick Klefbom and he doesn't work out? So what - it's just as much as the Golden Knights ended up out of Edmonton and there's still 29 other people they're picking. If he comes back, he's probably their best defenceman.

I think I would take the gamble.

The kicker will probably be how we present Klef's progress. Not sure we are sneaky enough around here to not proudly announce all his positive progress after his surgery (if it is indeed positive). Klef has 2 more years and even when he could barely shoot last year, he was our most relied on D on a team that was well on the way to the playoffs. That's a pretty good player to potentially get healed up midway through the 21/22 season.

Yup. If it was Lou Lamoriello running things, you know that the updates would be along the lines that they almost amputated his shoulder in the surgery (just ahead of a miracle recovery). With the Oilers management group, you'd have to worry that they'll show him shooting the puck and practicing on their official social media accounts shortly before they have to make a decision on the expansion draft, then panicking and protecting him, just before he has a set-back and retires from hockey.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779243 is a reply to message #779239 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 14:45

RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:03

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

If I am Klefbom, I would take the full recovery time given his history and problems he has had. I am not rushing to get back if it's even possible.

If I'm the Kraken, I'm thinking the same thing

I wouldn't take him if I am the Kraken. The Oilers are protecting McD, Leon and Yamo for sure. I think Nuge gets signed so there is 4. With the emergence of JP, they will for sure protect him. So they have to go 7-3-1. I wouldn't protect Klefbom no matter what as you can't take the risk he ends up not playing at some point. If you protect him and he ends up having to retire, you lose 2 players. So the Oilers will need to decide who between Laggesson and Jones to protect.

If I am the Kraken, I am not passing on one of Jones or Lagesson assuming the Oilers don't trade 1 of them. It's unknown if either will be a top 4 guy over his career but at the very least they look to both be good bottom pairing guys who should play for a long time. I wouldn't pass up a probably sure fire decent top 6 NHL dman who might be a top 4, all to pick a guy with a LONG injury history who might play but in all likelihood if any pain comes back, he's done.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779244 is a reply to message #779243 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 14:59

nullterm
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:45

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:03

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

If I am Klefbom, I would take the full recovery time given his history and problems he has had. I am not rushing to get back if it's even possible.

If I'm the Kraken, I'm thinking the same thing

I wouldn't take him if I am the Kraken. The Oilers are protecting McD, Leon and Yamo for sure. I think Nuge gets signed so there is 4. With the emergence of JP, they will for sure protect him. So they have to go 7-3-1. I wouldn't protect Klefbom no matter what as you can't take the risk he ends up not playing at some point. If you protect him and he ends up having to retire, you lose 2 players. So the Oilers will need to decide who between Laggesson and Jones to protect.

If I am the Kraken, I am not passing on one of Jones or Lagesson assuming the Oilers don't trade 1 of them. It's unknown if either will be a top 4 guy over his career but at the very least they look to both be good bottom pairing guys who should play for a long time. I wouldn't pass up a probably sure fire decent top 6 NHL dman who might be a top 4, all to pick a guy with a LONG injury history who might play but in all likelihood if any pain comes back, he's done.

Exactly. If the Kraken do any research and see his injury history, there's no way they pick Klefbom. We have much less riskier options to take instead.

And even if he is healthy, how long does it take to return to form and how close is he to the player he used to be?

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779245 is a reply to message #779244 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 15:07

inverno76
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:45

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:03

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 13:49

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 March 2021 14:36

Tony Brar @TonyBrarOTV

Ken Holland says Oscar Klefbom is scheduled to have surgery in Cleveland somewhere between March 20 - 25. #Oilers

Recovery (for the layman) 6-9 months so he, in theory, could be ready for next season. Pending what docs say regarding the operation will have a say in his eligibility in the expansion draft. Though, who are we kidding, we know the league will make us decide to protect or expose and injured Klefbom.

If I am Klefbom, I would take the full recovery time given his history and problems he has had. I am not rushing to get back if it's even possible.

If I'm the Kraken, I'm thinking the same thing

I wouldn't take him if I am the Kraken. The Oilers are protecting McD, Leon and Yamo for sure. I think Nuge gets signed so there is 4. With the emergence of JP, they will for sure protect him. So they have to go 7-3-1. I wouldn't protect Klefbom no matter what as you can't take the risk he ends up not playing at some point. If you protect him and he ends up having to retire, you lose 2 players. So the Oilers will need to decide who between Laggesson and Jones to protect.

If I am the Kraken, I am not passing on one of Jones or Lagesson assuming the Oilers don't trade 1 of them. It's unknown if either will be a top 4 guy over his career but at the very least they look to both be good bottom pairing guys who should play for a long time. I wouldn't pass up a probably sure fire decent top 6 NHL dman who might be a top 4, all to pick a guy with a LONG injury history who might play but in all likelihood if any pain comes back, he's done.

Exactly. If the Kraken do any research and see his injury history, there's no way they pick Klefbom. We have much less riskier options to take instead.

And even if he is healthy, how long does it take to return to form and how close is he to the player he used to be?

They’ll take a wait see approach. The surgery might tell more about the recovery. So far nothing is known about the recovery process except it’s 6-9 months. Will he ever see 100% health? Will he have professional sports limitations? Will he get a staph infection after his surgery (that’s a very Klefbom thing to do)?

The risk is high for either party and if they expose him and it’s equally as risky if we protect him.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 March 2021 15:11]

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #779248 is a reply to message #779245 ]	Thu, 11 March 2021 15:16

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

If I am the Oilers, I am pretending Klefbom doesn't exist and make my protection selections based on who I think makes my team the best moving forward. In my opinion, the Oilers have turned the corner and are becoming a very good team. They are doing that without Klefbom playing a part. So pick your team based on that. If the Kracken take Klefbom, oh well you didn't have him anyway when you started to get good. If they don't and he comes back fine or close to fine, great. You just protected the guys that make you good AND you gained another decent player on top of it as if it was a free agent signing.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781014 is a reply to message #767257 ]	Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781016 is a reply to message #781014 ]	Thu, 25 March 2021 22:22

Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

The youth crusade crew will probably cast shade my way, but could you imagine a top 4 D of;
Nurse/Barrie
Klefbom/Larsson

That is a legit top 4 D. It would be 6 o’clock to midnight for me ... well, more like 7 o’clock to midnight but you get the idea

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781023 is a reply to message #781016 ]	Thu, 25 March 2021 23:22

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:22

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

The youth crusade crew will probably cast shade my way, but could you imagine a top 4 D of;
Nurse/Barrie
Klefbom/Larsson

That is a legit top 4 D. It would be 6 o’clock to midnight for me ... well, more like 7 o’clock to midnight but you get the idea

2017 Klefbom or 2020 Klefbom?

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781017 is a reply to message #781014 ]	Thu, 25 March 2021 22:35

mightyreasoner
Messages: 508
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

And definitely very-Oilers to give such a rosy prognosis. They should be running the narrative "it will be a long and hard journey back to the NHL, with no guarantees he will ever be the same again."

Because they probably shouldn't be protecting him at this point, but you're still hoping he passes through unclaimed.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781028 is a reply to message #781017 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 08:38

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I am happy that it was successful for him personally but what does that mean exactly? He can work towards being back all he wants, doesn't mean it will happen. If he does come back, how will be be? Will he be back to his old self and able to play like he did for his 1 and only full season or will he's been normally which is pretty good for a while but eventually he will miss 15-20 games.

There are a TON of questions marks with this guy and unless they can get a 100% guarantee it's fixed forever, I wouldn't protect him even if he can play to some degree. I would not be willing and I think it would be foolish to lose a younger dman who you can have for maybe the next decade, all to protect a guy who sure he's good when totally healthy but all it will take is 1 bump the wrong way and he is probably retiring. It's one thing to get the shoulder fixed and be capable to live a normal life like most people do, it's another to be a pro hockey player getting rammed into the boards on that shoulder dozens of times a game. When Klefbom did his presser way back in the fall, he was all about life and wanting to just live without pain, be able to sleep at night without pain, hold a kid one day. Hockey was way down on the list. So if it was me and I know it would be hard to do but the first sign of pain or potential problems, I am done.

So unless you know 100% for certain, he's fixed forever, the risk at protecting him is too big.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781031 is a reply to message #781028 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 09:03

inverno76
Messages: 2120
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 08:38

I am happy that it was successful for him personally but what does that mean exactly? He can work towards being back all he wants, doesn't mean it will happen. If he does come back, how will be be? Will he be back to his old self and able to play like he did for his 1 and only full season or will he's been normally which is pretty good for a while but eventually he will miss 15-20 games.

There are a TON of questions marks with this guy and unless they can get a 100% guarantee it's fixed forever, I wouldn't protect him even if he can play to some degree. I would not be willing and I think it would be foolish to lose a younger dman who you can have for maybe the next decade, all to protect a guy who sure he's good when totally healthy but all it will take is 1 bump the wrong way and he is probably retiring. It's one thing to get the shoulder fixed and be capable to live a normal life like most people do, it's another to be a pro hockey player getting rammed into the boards on that shoulder dozens of times a game. When Klefbom did his presser way back in the fall, he was all about life and wanting to just live without pain, be able to sleep at night without pain, hold a kid one day. Hockey was way down on the list. So if it was me and I know it would be hard to do but the first sign of pain or potential problems, I am done.

So unless you know 100% for certain, he's fixed forever, the risk at protecting him is too big.

Well he’s gone then. No surgery is guaranteed 100%.

Leave this to the medical staff and doctors. If Holland protects Klefbom it won’t be through uncertainty. Having the option of protecting Klefbom is a good thing.

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