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 Decisions Looming [message #765657]
Wed, 19 August 2020 14:35 Go to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 2673
Registered: November 2007

2 Cups

This is a major offseason for Ken Holland and the Oilers. He has a lot of decisions to make with free agents, and some major holes to fill. Let's have a look.



Upcoming free agents:

LW/RW Andreas Athanasiou - RFA - Cap Hit 3M in 2019/20
Age 26
2019-20 55GP 11G 15A 26P -46


D Matt Benning - RFA - Cap Hit 1.9M in 2019/20
Age 26
2019-20 43GP 1G 7A 8P +8


D Ethan Bear - RFA - Cap Hit 0.72M in 2019/20
Age 23
2019-20 71GP 5G 16A 21P -4


LW/RW Tyler Ennis - UFA - Cap Hit 0.8M in 2019/20
Age 30
2019-20 70GP 16G 21A 37P -6


C Riley Sheahan - UFA - Cap Hit 0.9M in 2019/20
Age 28
2019-20 66GP 8G 7A 15P -13


G Mike Smith - UFA - Cap Hit 2.0M + 0.750M? Bonus Earned in 2019/20
Age 38
2019-20 19W-12L-6OTL 0.902SV% 1BOCT (Beatdown On Cam Talbot)


Other FA's: William Lagesson (RFA), Patrick Russell (UFA)



Other decisions:


Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - One more season until UFA. He currently makes 6M a year. He put up a nice season at 61 points in 65 games. Will be 28 years old once he is a UFA. I'd really like to keep him here, but he has 9 years with the Oilers and a single playoff appearance. I would assume he wants to test the market. I'd hate to trade him, but he could be a piece depending on whether his feeling is to stay or go. He'd create a major hole without a replacement.


Adam Larsson - One more season until UFA. Currently age 27 and has a 4.167M AAV. 6 points in 47 games last season, so he certainly has more to be desired at his pay scale. Is he traded soon?


Bad Money - James Neal has 3 years at 5.75M left. I don't see much happening with him. Too early for a buyout IMO, although this would be the best chance to trade him after a 19 goal season. Kris Russell still plagues the Oilers with one more year at 4M. Would love to see that money gone. Kassian is also bad money.




Current Signed Line-up:


71.351M Cap Hit
10.149 Cap Space

xxxx - McDavid - xxxx
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Neal - xxxx - Kassian
Chiasson - Khaira - Archibald

Nygard, Haas

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - xxxx
Jones - xxxx

Russell

Koskinen
xxxx


If the roster is kept as is (I sure hope not), that leaves about 10M for a 1B goalie, a decent raise for Ethan Bear, two wingers for McDavid, a 3C, Evan Bouchard's contract, and perhaps re-signing Matt Benning.

There is a lot of work to be done this summer and not a lot of money.







Clean house or bust

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765659 is a reply to message #765657 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 8170
Registered: January 2016

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 14:35

This is a major offseason for Ken Holland and the Oilers. He has a lot of decisions to make with free agents, and some major holes to fill. Let's have a look.



Upcoming free agents:

LW/RW Andreas Athanasiou - RFA - Cap Hit 3M in 2019/20
Age 26
2019-20 55GP 11G 15A 26P -46


D Matt Benning - RFA - Cap Hit 1.9M in 2019/20
Age 26
2019-20 43GP 1G 7A 8P +8


D Ethan Bear - RFA - Cap Hit 0.72M in 2019/20
Age 23
2019-20 71GP 5G 16A 21P -4


LW/RW Tyler Ennis - UFA - Cap Hit 0.8M in 2019/20
Age 30
2019-20 70GP 16G 21A 37P -6


C Riley Sheahan - UFA - Cap Hit 0.9M in 2019/20
Age 28
2019-20 66GP 8G 7A 15P -13


G Mike Smith - UFA - Cap Hit 2.0M + 0.750M? Bonus Earned in 2019/20
Age 38
2019-20 19W-12L-6OTL 0.902SV% 1BOCT (Beatdown On Cam Talbot)


Other FA's: William Lagesson (RFA), Patrick Russell (UFA)



Other decisions:


Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - One more season until UFA. He currently makes 6M a year. He put up a nice season at 61 points in 65 games. Will be 28 years old once he is a UFA. I'd really like to keep him here, but he has 9 years with the Oilers and a single playoff appearance. I would assume he wants to test the market. I'd hate to trade him, but he could be a piece depending on whether his feeling is to stay or go. He'd create a major hole without a replacement.


Adam Larsson - One more season until UFA. Currently age 27 and has a 4.167M AAV. 6 points in 47 games last season, so he certainly has more to be desired at his pay scale. Is he traded soon?


Bad Money - James Neal has 3 years at 5.75M left. I don't see much happening with him. Too early for a buyout IMO, although this would be the best chance to trade him after a 19 goal season. Kris Russell still plagues the Oilers with one more year at 4M. Would love to see that money gone. Kassian is also bad money.




Current Signed Line-up:


71.351M Cap Hit
10.149 Cap Space

xxxx - McDavid - xxxx
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Neal - xxxx - Kassian
Chiasson - Khaira - Archibald

Nygard, Haas

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - xxxx
Jones - xxxx

Russell

Koskinen
xxxx


If the roster is kept as is (I sure hope not), that leaves about 10M for a 1B goalie, a decent raise for Ethan Bear, two wingers for McDavid, a 3C, Evan Bouchard's contract, and perhaps re-signing Matt Benning.

There is a lot of work to be done this summer and not a lot of money.



AA - I have said it in other threads. I think 13 games isn't enough time to assess a guy, especially when there is a 4.5 month break in between. Plus you have up assets to get him. His season doesn't warrant qualifying or signing him to a raise. I'd offer him a short term deal at 2 mill. If he doesn't take it, trade him.

Benning - I said in another thread. He's a 6/7 dman that is a mediocre skater, doesn't move the puck well, doesn't score points and has potential concussion issues. I'd offer him a short deal at around 1 mill. If he doesn't take it, trade him. If he was a left shot, we wouldn't even talk about him.

Bear - I think you bridge him unless he's willing to sign a Klefbom deal. I'd come in at 2 yrs at around 2.5-3 which is a pretty massive raise.

Ennis - If he is willing to sign for around 1 mill, I'd bring him back on a short deal.

Sheahan - They need to upgrade the 3rd line center spot so I am not bringing him back for that role. I'd have no problem if he was signed for less than 1 mill to be on the 4th line. I think they need to get rid of Khaira for cap savings anyway.

Smith - Bye bye. He's 38, turns 39 in March. I think the squeezed whatever juice was left in him. If he actually wants to play again, it can't be for the Oilers. I think Tippett starting Koskinen in game 4 was telling. I expected him to go back to Smith after the blows lost game 3. I do wonder if with a 4.5 month break after March, then another long break until the next season starts, does he really want to come back? He's got young kids, made over 45 mill and will be 39.

P. Russell - Please no. I appreciate the effort but he's not an NHLer.

Lagesson - I'd resign to dirt cheap. You've spent all this time developing him, why get rid of him just when he's about to potentially be something.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765663 is a reply to message #765659 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 18064
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 15:17


AA - I have said it in other threads. I think 13 games isn't enough time to assess a guy, especially when there is a 4.5 month break in between. Plus you have up assets to get him. His season doesn't warrant qualifying or signing him to a raise. I'd offer him a short term deal at 2 mill. If he doesn't take it, trade him.

Benning - I said in another thread. He's a 6/7 dman that is a mediocre skater, doesn't move the puck well, doesn't score points and has potential concussion issues. I'd offer him a short deal at around 1 mill. If he doesn't take it, trade him. If he was a left shot, we wouldn't even talk about him.

Bear - I think you bridge him unless he's willing to sign a Klefbom deal. I'd come in at 2 yrs at around 2.5-3 which is a pretty massive raise.

Ennis - If he is willing to sign for around 1 mill, I'd bring him back on a short deal.

Sheahan - They need to upgrade the 3rd line center spot so I am not bringing him back for that role. I'd have no problem if he was signed for less than 1 mill to be on the 4th line. I think they need to get rid of Khaira for cap savings anyway.

Smith - Bye bye. He's 38, turns 39 in March. I think the squeezed whatever juice was left in him. If he actually wants to play again, it can't be for the Oilers. I think Tippett starting Koskinen in game 4 was telling. I expected him to go back to Smith after the blows lost game 3. I do wonder if with a 4.5 month break after March, then another long break until the next season starts, does he really want to come back? He's got young kids, made over 45 mill and will be 39.

P. Russell - Please no. I appreciate the effort but he's not an NHLer.

Lagesson - I'd resign to dirt cheap. You've spent all this time developing him, why get rid of him just when he's about to potentially be something.


You can't offer $1MM to Benning. You can offer $1.9MM, or you can watch him become a UFA. He's probably worth it. He may not be the flashiest defenceman on the team but good things happen more than bad things when he's on the ice. He's been consistently at or near the top of the Oilers +/- stats for the last few years. After a while, you can't ignore those things.

Agreed on Bear, Lagesson to sign.

Athanasiou, I try to get him to sign his qualifying offer. He can go to arbitration, but he could lose there as well, so get him to something close to what he made last year.

Agree on Smith - he shouldn't be allowed back in the building other than to pack up his pads.

Sheahan I wouldn't have back. I think Khaira is bigger, younger and faster and already under contract. I think while people are disappointed that Khaira isn't more than he is, he's fine if you accept him as a fourth line centre who kills penalties. There may be a bit of a drop-off between the two, but it's not a big one. If I'm able to upgrade there, then maybe I do - but I don't see Sheahan as a big enough upgrade.

Ennis - depends on his injury. That's a tough injury, and it may really impact him for next year. I don't sign him until he's showing some good signs on recovery.

Patrick Russell - I wouldn't bring him back, but I'm not sure the Oilers will approach it that way. He was a Dave Tippett favourite this year. Stuck around all season, not a minute in the minors, and got in 45 games despite his complete inability to score a goal that counted. For me, I would say at 27, this was his absolute peak performance and it's substandard for the NHL so see ya later - but we'll see. I would not be shocked at all to see him back on another deal.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireChiarelli #FireBobbyNicks #FireKeithGretzky #FireKenHolland #FireTippett

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765669 is a reply to message #765663 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 8170
Registered: January 2016

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 15:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 15:17


AA - I have said it in other threads. I think 13 games isn't enough time to assess a guy, especially when there is a 4.5 month break in between. Plus you have up assets to get him. His season doesn't warrant qualifying or signing him to a raise. I'd offer him a short term deal at 2 mill. If he doesn't take it, trade him.

Benning - I said in another thread. He's a 6/7 dman that is a mediocre skater, doesn't move the puck well, doesn't score points and has potential concussion issues. I'd offer him a short deal at around 1 mill. If he doesn't take it, trade him. If he was a left shot, we wouldn't even talk about him.

Bear - I think you bridge him unless he's willing to sign a Klefbom deal. I'd come in at 2 yrs at around 2.5-3 which is a pretty massive raise.

Ennis - If he is willing to sign for around 1 mill, I'd bring him back on a short deal.

Sheahan - They need to upgrade the 3rd line center spot so I am not bringing him back for that role. I'd have no problem if he was signed for less than 1 mill to be on the 4th line. I think they need to get rid of Khaira for cap savings anyway.

Smith - Bye bye. He's 38, turns 39 in March. I think the squeezed whatever juice was left in him. If he actually wants to play again, it can't be for the Oilers. I think Tippett starting Koskinen in game 4 was telling. I expected him to go back to Smith after the blows lost game 3. I do wonder if with a 4.5 month break after March, then another long break until the next season starts, does he really want to come back? He's got young kids, made over 45 mill and will be 39.

P. Russell - Please no. I appreciate the effort but he's not an NHLer.

Lagesson - I'd resign to dirt cheap. You've spent all this time developing him, why get rid of him just when he's about to potentially be something.


You can't offer $1MM to Benning. You can offer $1.9MM, or you can watch him become a UFA. He's probably worth it. He may not be the flashiest defenceman on the team but good things happen more than bad things when he's on the ice. He's been consistently at or near the top of the Oilers +/- stats for the last few years. After a while, you can't ignore those things.

Agreed on Bear, Lagesson to sign.

Athanasiou, I try to get him to sign his qualifying offer. He can go to arbitration, but he could lose there as well, so get him to something close to what he made last year.

Agree on Smith - he shouldn't be allowed back in the building other than to pack up his pads.

Sheahan I wouldn't have back. I think Khaira is bigger, younger and faster and already under contract. I think while people are disappointed that Khaira isn't more than he is, he's fine if you accept him as a fourth line centre who kills penalties. There may be a bit of a drop-off between the two, but it's not a big one. If I'm able to upgrade there, then maybe I do - but I don't see Sheahan as a big enough upgrade.

Ennis - depends on his injury. That's a tough injury, and it may really impact him for next year. I don't sign him until he's showing some good signs on recovery.

Patrick Russell - I wouldn't bring him back, but I'm not sure the Oilers will approach it that way. He was a Dave Tippett favourite this year. Stuck around all season, not a minute in the minors, and got in 45 games despite his complete inability to score a goal that counted. For me, I would say at 27, this was his absolute peak performance and it's substandard for the NHL so see ya later - but we'll see. I would not be shocked at all to see him back on another deal.

I wouldn't qualify Benning. I don't pretend to be a cap expert but I believe you can sign a player to whatever they will accept. So I would tell him flat out, we aren't qualifying you at 1.9 mill. If you want to accept this contract great, if not we are trading your rights.

I don't get you man. You moan and groan about guys getting a 100k more than they should but then you are telling me that Benning is worth 1.9 mill? Seriously? And you use the most flawed stat that exists, +/- to back up your argument as to why he's good???

He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't skate overly well, doesn't move the puck very well, scores very little, sort of defends OK at times as long as he doesn't leave the 3rd pairing but has concussion issues and you are cool to give a guy like that 2 mill? So you can put him on the ice and he doesn't get destroyed. Awesome. That isn't worth 2 mill. If ever there was an easy way to trim a little bit of money it would be to not be paying a dman 2 mill to potentially sit in the press box because he got beat out by Bouchard.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765672 is a reply to message #765669 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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Registered: November 2007

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If Benning is not qualified, he will be an unrestricted free agent and at that point there are no rights to trade.

+/- is a flawed stat when comparing across teams. It is not so bad when comparing to your teammates. Matt Benning is +32 over four years with the Oilers while the Oilers as a whole were -31. He does something very well.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765675 is a reply to message #765672 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 16:27

If Benning is not qualified, he will be an unrestricted free agent and at that point there are no rights to trade.

+/- is a flawed stat when comparing across teams. It is not so bad when comparing to your teammates. Matt Benning is +32 over four years with the Oilers while the Oilers as a whole were -31. He does something very well.

I would be willing to bet money that if Green hadn't of opted out, Benning wouldn't have even played in the series. So maybe I am on an island here but in my opinion paying Benning 2 mill is insane.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765674 is a reply to message #765669 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 16:18


I wouldn't qualify Benning. I don't pretend to be a cap expert but I believe you can sign a player to whatever they will accept. So I would tell him flat out, we aren't qualifying you at 1.9 mill. If you want to accept this contract great, if not we are trading your rights.

I don't get you man. You moan and groan about guys getting a 100k more than they should but then you are telling me that Benning is worth 1.9 mill? Seriously? And you use the most flawed stat that exists, +/- to back up your argument as to why he's good???

He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't skate overly well, doesn't move the puck very well, scores very little, sort of defends OK at times as long as he doesn't leave the 3rd pairing but has concussion issues and you are cool to give a guy like that 2 mill? So you can put him on the ice and he doesn't get destroyed. Awesome. That isn't worth 2 mill. If ever there was an easy way to trim a little bit of money it would be to not be paying a dman 2 mill to potentially sit in the press box because he got beat out by Bouchard.


I anticipated this response, so wrote a bigger post about why I'd keep Benning in the other side.

In the end, I don't think you're going to get someone else that does what he does for much cheaper. Ideally he gets surpassed by Bouchard this year, but there's no guarantees of that, and it's good to have a fall-back plan that isn't another minor leaguer or rookie.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765676 is a reply to message #765674 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 16:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 16:18


I wouldn't qualify Benning. I don't pretend to be a cap expert but I believe you can sign a player to whatever they will accept. So I would tell him flat out, we aren't qualifying you at 1.9 mill. If you want to accept this contract great, if not we are trading your rights.

I don't get you man. You moan and groan about guys getting a 100k more than they should but then you are telling me that Benning is worth 1.9 mill? Seriously? And you use the most flawed stat that exists, +/- to back up your argument as to why he's good???

He's a 6/7 dman who doesn't skate overly well, doesn't move the puck very well, scores very little, sort of defends OK at times as long as he doesn't leave the 3rd pairing but has concussion issues and you are cool to give a guy like that 2 mill? So you can put him on the ice and he doesn't get destroyed. Awesome. That isn't worth 2 mill. If ever there was an easy way to trim a little bit of money it would be to not be paying a dman 2 mill to potentially sit in the press box because he got beat out by Bouchard.


I anticipated this response, so wrote a bigger post about why I'd keep Benning in the other side.

In the end, I don't think you're going to get someone else that does what he does for much cheaper. Ideally he gets surpassed by Bouchard this year, but there's no guarantees of that, and it's good to have a fall-back plan that isn't another minor leaguer or rookie.


We will have to disagree then because paying a guy 2 mill to most likely sit in the press box for most of the season as a "just in case" makes zero sense to me. Money will be tighter than ever this season and a 2 mill insurance policy is a bit much in my books. There could easily be other guys looking for work who are cheaper and maybe not as good +/- but might actually complete an outlet pass once in a while.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767869 is a reply to message #765659 ]
Wed, 07 October 2020 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rrathel716  is currently offline rrathel716
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lets try this again

??? McDavid (12.5M) Kassian (3.2) 15.7M
RNH (6M) Draisaitl (8.5M) Yamamoto (900K) 15.4M
Neal (5.75) ??? Puljujarvi (1.175) 6.925M
Chiasson (2.15M) Khaira (1.2M) Archibald (1.5M) 4.85M
total 42.875M


Klefbom (4.17M) Larsson (4.16M) 8.33M
Nurse (5.6M) Bear (???) 5.6M
Jones (850K) Bouchard (860K) 1.71M
total 15.64M


Nygard (875K) Haas (915K) Russell (700K) total 2.590M
buyout plus retained salary total 4.583M

Koskinen (4.5M) total 70.188M

Well that leaves you with around 11M to find 1 goalie, one left winger, one 3rd line center, raise for Bear. I think they should get rid of Russell and Neal via trade then at that point you can find a decent 1LW for 5.75M, you would still have 11M for 3rd line C, one goalie, Bear raise, and a cheaper 3rd line LW . It is feasible



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #767913 is a reply to message #767869 ]
Thu, 08 October 2020 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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rrathel716 wrote on Wed, 07 October 2020 16:25

lets try this again

??? McDavid (12.5M) Kassian (3.2) 15.7M
RNH (6M) Draisaitl (8.5M) Yamamoto (900K) 15.4M
Neal (5.75) ??? Puljujarvi (1.175) 6.925M
Chiasson (2.15M) Khaira (1.2M) Archibald (1.5M) 4.85M
total 42.875M


Klefbom (4.17M) Larsson (4.16M) 8.33M
Nurse (5.6M) Bear (???) 5.6M
Jones (850K) Bouchard (860K) 1.71M
total 15.64M


Nygard (875K) Haas (915K) Russell (700K) total 2.590M
buyout plus retained salary total 4.583M

Koskinen (4.5M) total 70.188M

Well that leaves you with around 11M to find 1 goalie, one left winger, one 3rd line center, raise for Bear. I think they should get rid of Russell and Neal via trade then at that point you can find a decent 1LW for 5.75M, you would still have 11M for 3rd line C, one goalie, Bear raise, and a cheaper 3rd line LW . It is feasible


Now delete Klefbom (and probably his dollars) and where do you land?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765667 is a reply to message #765657 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 14:35

This is a major offseason for Ken Holland and the Oilers. He has a lot of decisions to make with free agents, and some major holes to fill. Let's have a look.



All numbers from CapFriendly.

RFA Qualifying Offers:

Athanasiou - $3M
Benning - $2M
Bear - $0.735M
Lagesson - $0.735M

Decisions:

Athanasiou - I don't know what to do with him. He had an abysmal season, looked out of sync for most of his time on the Oilers, and didn't look anything close to a $3M player. That said, he is one season removed from a 30G, 54 point season, and that is easily worth $3M. I probably sign him for a year and line him up on the third line with Puljujarvi.

Benning - I like him just fine, and his contract works for a young bottom pairing guy, but if you are making room for Bouchard on next year's team, he may be a guy who gets moved.

Bear - I'm trying to lock Bear up long-term, a deal like Klefbom's where you maybe overpay initially, but it becomes a bargain during the duration. I'm not sure what that number comes in at, but maybe $4-5M on a 6-8 year deal? I'm working to get him locked up as part of the core.

Lagesson - I probably qualify him, but I'm not sure what I'm doing with him just yet. And neither are the Oilers. This guy put up good AHL numbers, but spent most of this year in the pressbox with the Oilers and didn't get much of an opportunity. He does seem like a capable 7th defensemen who can step into the lineup.

Ennis - I'm looking to bring him back on a multi-year deal. Maybe something like 2 years at $3M per year?

Sheahan - Sounds like he is looking to get paid 3C dollars, and I view him as a 4C. I let him walk and put Haas in that 4C position.

Smith - Too many red flags and too inconsistent. With Koskinen locked up, I'm looking for another goalie and letting Smith walk.

Patrick Russell - An AHL player who spent a year in the NHL. I'm letting him look for other opportunities.

Nugent-Hopkins - I'm looking to lock Nugent-Hopkins up long-term, something along the lines of $6-7M for 8 years. If he isn't interested in signing an extension though, you really probably don't have a choice but to look at trade options this summer.

Larsson - I don't see him in the Oilers plans beyond this year. There are injury issues and age issues, even though he is pretty good for the Oilers when he does play. I'd be looking to move him this summer.

Neal - You've got to look at trying to shed that contract. Neal certainly helped his cause this year.

Kassian - Should have never, ever signed him to that extension. I would move him in a heartbeat, but not sure anyone is desperate for a $3M fourth liner.

Kris Russell - With one year left, this might be a moveable contract, particularly if the Oilers retain some salary. I'm looking to move him.

I'd be looking to move Alex Chaisson too. He's been fine, but you can probably get that production for cheaper, and he only has one year left on his deal.


xxxx - McDavid - Ennis*
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Athanasiou** - xxxx - Puljujarvi**
Khaira - Haas - Archibald

Benson, xxxx

TRADE: Neal ($5.75M), Kassian ($3.2M), Chiasson ($2.15M)


Klefbom - Bear**
Nurse - Bouchard
Jones - Benning** (would be open to moving Benning if another RHD brought in)

Lagesson**

TRADE: Russell ($4M), Larsson ($4.16)

Koskinen
xxxx

Neal, Kassian, Chiasson, Russell, and Larsson is $19.26M. That is enough to get you a lot more. I don't know what the market is for those guys, but I'm looking to move as many of them as I can.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765678 is a reply to message #765667 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 15:58

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 14:35

This is a major offseason for Ken Holland and the Oilers. He has a lot of decisions to make with free agents, and some major holes to fill. Let's have a look.



All numbers from CapFriendly.

RFA Qualifying Offers:

Athanasiou - $3M
Benning - $2M
Bear - $0.735M
Lagesson - $0.735M

Decisions:

Athanasiou - I don't know what to do with him. He had an abysmal season, looked out of sync for most of his time on the Oilers, and didn't look anything close to a $3M player. That said, he is one season removed from a 30G, 54 point season, and that is easily worth $3M. I probably sign him for a year and line him up on the third line with Puljujarvi.

Benning - I like him just fine, and his contract works for a young bottom pairing guy, but if you are making room for Bouchard on next year's team, he may be a guy who gets moved.

Bear - I'm trying to lock Bear up long-term, a deal like Klefbom's where you maybe overpay initially, but it becomes a bargain during the duration. I'm not sure what that number comes in at, but maybe $4-5M on a 6-8 year deal? I'm working to get him locked up as part of the core.

Lagesson - I probably qualify him, but I'm not sure what I'm doing with him just yet. And neither are the Oilers. This guy put up good AHL numbers, but spent most of this year in the pressbox with the Oilers and didn't get much of an opportunity. He does seem like a capable 7th defensemen who can step into the lineup.

Ennis - I'm looking to bring him back on a multi-year deal. Maybe something like 2 years at $3M per year?

Sheahan - Sounds like he is looking to get paid 3C dollars, and I view him as a 4C. I let him walk and put Haas in that 4C position.

Smith - Too many red flags and too inconsistent. With Koskinen locked up, I'm looking for another goalie and letting Smith walk.

Patrick Russell - An AHL player who spent a year in the NHL. I'm letting him look for other opportunities.

Nugent-Hopkins - I'm looking to lock Nugent-Hopkins up long-term, something along the lines of $6-7M for 8 years. If he isn't interested in signing an extension though, you really probably don't have a choice but to look at trade options this summer.

Larsson - I don't see him in the Oilers plans beyond this year. There are injury issues and age issues, even though he is pretty good for the Oilers when he does play. I'd be looking to move him this summer.

Neal - You've got to look at trying to shed that contract. Neal certainly helped his cause this year.

Kassian - Should have never, ever signed him to that extension. I would move him in a heartbeat, but not sure anyone is desperate for a $3M fourth liner.

Kris Russell - With one year left, this might be a moveable contract, particularly if the Oilers retain some salary. I'm looking to move him.

I'd be looking to move Alex Chaisson too. He's been fine, but you can probably get that production for cheaper, and he only has one year left on his deal.


xxxx - McDavid - Ennis*
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Athanasiou** - xxxx - Puljujarvi**
Khaira - Haas - Archibald

Benson, xxxx

TRADE: Neal ($5.75M), Kassian ($3.2M), Chiasson ($2.15M)


Klefbom - Bear**
Nurse - Bouchard
Jones - Benning** (would be open to moving Benning if another RHD brought in)

Lagesson**

TRADE: Russell ($4M), Larsson ($4.16)

Koskinen
xxxx

Neal, Kassian, Chiasson, Russell, and Larsson is $19.26M. That is enough to get you a lot more. I don't know what the market is for those guys, but I'm looking to move as many of them as I can.

Where did you hear Sheahan wants 3 mill? If that was the number he or is agent floated to Holland before he left the bubble, I hope Holland gave him his farewell card before he left.

I hope/think Nuge will be resigned but I don't think he should sign for much more than what he makes. He was overpaid for the bulk of his contract, 6-6.5 mill is pretty fair in my books especially considering league revenue will be way, way down. Nuge is a real good complimentary player but what we have seen is if you put him with elites, he can produce. If you have him on his own line and expect him to drive a line and elevate others, it's not happening. I don't see him getting a lot more than what I said on the open market.

I do wonder if you could work out a deal where he has the extension in his back pocket but its not signed until after the expansion draft.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765680 is a reply to message #765678 ]
Wed, 19 August 2020 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 16:50



Where did you hear Sheahan wants 3 mill? If that was the number he or is agent floated to Holland before he left the bubble, I hope Holland gave him his farewell card before he left.


Not 3 million, but as a 3rd line center (which actually probably is close to 3M I guess).

I think it was floated out there by a few people around May, but here is one:

https://thehockeywriters.com/oilers-riley-sheahan-asking-too -much/



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765795 is a reply to message #765667 ]
Sat, 22 August 2020 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 16:58

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 14:35

This is a major offseason for Ken Holland and the Oilers. He has a lot of decisions to make with free agents, and some major holes to fill. Let's have a look.



All numbers from CapFriendly.

RFA Qualifying Offers:

Athanasiou - $3M
Benning - $2M
Bear - $0.735M
Lagesson - $0.735M

Decisions:

Athanasiou - I don't know what to do with him. He had an abysmal season, looked out of sync for most of his time on the Oilers, and didn't look anything close to a $3M player. That said, he is one season removed from a 30G, 54 point season, and that is easily worth $3M. I probably sign him for a year and line him up on the third line with Puljujarvi.

Benning - I like him just fine, and his contract works for a young bottom pairing guy, but if you are making room for Bouchard on next year's team, he may be a guy who gets moved.

Bear - I'm trying to lock Bear up long-term, a deal like Klefbom's where you maybe overpay initially, but it becomes a bargain during the duration. I'm not sure what that number comes in at, but maybe $4-5M on a 6-8 year deal? I'm working to get him locked up as part of the core.

Lagesson - I probably qualify him, but I'm not sure what I'm doing with him just yet. And neither are the Oilers. This guy put up good AHL numbers, but spent most of this year in the pressbox with the Oilers and didn't get much of an opportunity. He does seem like a capable 7th defensemen who can step into the lineup.

Ennis - I'm looking to bring him back on a multi-year deal. Maybe something like 2 years at $3M per year?

Sheahan - Sounds like he is looking to get paid 3C dollars, and I view him as a 4C. I let him walk and put Haas in that 4C position.

Smith - Too many red flags and too inconsistent. With Koskinen locked up, I'm looking for another goalie and letting Smith walk.

Patrick Russell - An AHL player who spent a year in the NHL. I'm letting him look for other opportunities.

Nugent-Hopkins - I'm looking to lock Nugent-Hopkins up long-term, something along the lines of $6-7M for 8 years. If he isn't interested in signing an extension though, you really probably don't have a choice but to look at trade options this summer.

Larsson - I don't see him in the Oilers plans beyond this year. There are injury issues and age issues, even though he is pretty good for the Oilers when he does play. I'd be looking to move him this summer.

Neal - You've got to look at trying to shed that contract. Neal certainly helped his cause this year.

Kassian - Should have never, ever signed him to that extension. I would move him in a heartbeat, but not sure anyone is desperate for a $3M fourth liner.

Kris Russell - With one year left, this might be a moveable contract, particularly if the Oilers retain some salary. I'm looking to move him.

I'd be looking to move Alex Chaisson too. He's been fine, but you can probably get that production for cheaper, and he only has one year left on his deal.


xxxx - McDavid - Ennis*
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Athanasiou** - xxxx - Puljujarvi**
Khaira - Haas - Archibald

Benson, xxxx

TRADE: Neal ($5.75M), Kassian ($3.2M), Chiasson ($2.15M)


Klefbom - Bear**
Nurse - Bouchard
Jones - Benning** (would be open to moving Benning if another RHD brought in)

Lagesson**

TRADE: Russell ($4M), Larsson ($4.16)

Koskinen
xxxx

Neal, Kassian, Chiasson, Russell, and Larsson is $19.26M. That is enough to get you a lot more. I don't know what the market is for those guys, but I'm looking to move as many of them as I can.


Great analysis from all members who have contributed...my views however align most with you on this count.

As much as I like Adam Larsson, he seems to be the odd man out with an up & coming Bouchard. Larsson & a package of either Neal/Chiasson/Kris Russell/Kassian to the Leafs for a guy like Nylander makes too much sense.

Russell's cap hit is 4 mill but I agree that his last season paying him 1.5 mill is a discount for owners looking to save money while getting a serviceable 3rd pairing dman.

Hoping Seattle takes either Neal or Kassian if either are not packaged along with Larsson...if looking for a discount..they could go after AA or Archibald (ugh).

Anyone have an accurate list of who will be exposed in the expansion draft btw?



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765796 is a reply to message #765795 ]
Sat, 22 August 2020 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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kungpaobenji27 wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 15:42

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 16:58

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 19 August 2020 14:35

This is a major offseason for Ken Holland and the Oilers. He has a lot of decisions to make with free agents, and some major holes to fill. Let's have a look.



All numbers from CapFriendly.

RFA Qualifying Offers:

Athanasiou - $3M
Benning - $2M
Bear - $0.735M
Lagesson - $0.735M

Decisions:

Athanasiou - I don't know what to do with him. He had an abysmal season, looked out of sync for most of his time on the Oilers, and didn't look anything close to a $3M player. That said, he is one season removed from a 30G, 54 point season, and that is easily worth $3M. I probably sign him for a year and line him up on the third line with Puljujarvi.

Benning - I like him just fine, and his contract works for a young bottom pairing guy, but if you are making room for Bouchard on next year's team, he may be a guy who gets moved.

Bear - I'm trying to lock Bear up long-term, a deal like Klefbom's where you maybe overpay initially, but it becomes a bargain during the duration. I'm not sure what that number comes in at, but maybe $4-5M on a 6-8 year deal? I'm working to get him locked up as part of the core.

Lagesson - I probably qualify him, but I'm not sure what I'm doing with him just yet. And neither are the Oilers. This guy put up good AHL numbers, but spent most of this year in the pressbox with the Oilers and didn't get much of an opportunity. He does seem like a capable 7th defensemen who can step into the lineup.

Ennis - I'm looking to bring him back on a multi-year deal. Maybe something like 2 years at $3M per year?

Sheahan - Sounds like he is looking to get paid 3C dollars, and I view him as a 4C. I let him walk and put Haas in that 4C position.

Smith - Too many red flags and too inconsistent. With Koskinen locked up, I'm looking for another goalie and letting Smith walk.

Patrick Russell - An AHL player who spent a year in the NHL. I'm letting him look for other opportunities.

Nugent-Hopkins - I'm looking to lock Nugent-Hopkins up long-term, something along the lines of $6-7M for 8 years. If he isn't interested in signing an extension though, you really probably don't have a choice but to look at trade options this summer.

Larsson - I don't see him in the Oilers plans beyond this year. There are injury issues and age issues, even though he is pretty good for the Oilers when he does play. I'd be looking to move him this summer.

Neal - You've got to look at trying to shed that contract. Neal certainly helped his cause this year.

Kassian - Should have never, ever signed him to that extension. I would move him in a heartbeat, but not sure anyone is desperate for a $3M fourth liner.

Kris Russell - With one year left, this might be a moveable contract, particularly if the Oilers retain some salary. I'm looking to move him.

I'd be looking to move Alex Chaisson too. He's been fine, but you can probably get that production for cheaper, and he only has one year left on his deal.


xxxx - McDavid - Ennis*
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Athanasiou** - xxxx - Puljujarvi**
Khaira - Haas - Archibald

Benson, xxxx

TRADE: Neal ($5.75M), Kassian ($3.2M), Chiasson ($2.15M)


Klefbom - Bear**
Nurse - Bouchard
Jones - Benning** (would be open to moving Benning if another RHD brought in)

Lagesson**

TRADE: Russell ($4M), Larsson ($4.16)

Koskinen
xxxx

Neal, Kassian, Chiasson, Russell, and Larsson is $19.26M. That is enough to get you a lot more. I don't know what the market is for those guys, but I'm looking to move as many of them as I can.


Great analysis from all members who have contributed...my views however align most with you on this count.

As much as I like Adam Larsson, he seems to be the odd man out with an up & coming Bouchard. Larsson & a package of either Neal/Chiasson/Kris Russell/Kassian to the Leafs for a guy like Nylander makes too much sense.

Russell's cap hit is 4 mill but I agree that his last season paying him 1.5 mill is a discount for owners looking to save money while getting a serviceable 3rd pairing dman.

Hoping Seattle takes either Neal or Kassian if either are not packaged along with Larsson...if looking for a discount..they could go after AA or Archibald (ugh).

Anyone have an accurate list of who will be exposed in the expansion draft btw?


I think we have a good chance of losing someone more valuable in the expansion draft unless we do some kind of move to protect us. All of Klefbom, Nurse, Bear and Jones need protection.

If the Oilers go the 7F/3D/1G route, then one of them gets picked up for sure. If we go 8 skaters and a goalie, we can protect all of them, but the forwards is a challenge. If we have essentially the same roster we have today, we protect McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins (assuming he's re-signed) and likely Yamamoto. That means anyone extra we get this year would be exposed, or possibly Puljujarvi.

If we're really being proactive and strategic, we talk to Nugent-Hopkins and agree in concept on a contract, but don't sign it to give us an extra spot. If he gets picked up, you just sign him back as soon as he becomes UFA a couple weeks later.

It does present an interesting challenge going in to next season. Other than goalie, anyone you pick up as UFA is most likely going to face the expansion draft, so there'll be a preference for one-year deals this summer I think. No-move clauses might be at an all-time low too. If the Oilers were to pick up Hall, Krug or Pietrangelo, it almost certainly means they lose someone like Caleb Jones as a result. With a forward, you might be able to do the Nugent-Hopkins gambit - but a defenceman leaves us no options for protecting guys.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765798 is a reply to message #765796 ]
Sat, 22 August 2020 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Adam wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 17:10



I think we have a good chance of losing someone more valuable in the expansion draft unless we do some kind of move to protect us. All of Klefbom, Nurse, Bear and Jones need protection.

If the Oilers go the 7F/3D/1G route, then one of them gets picked up for sure. If we go 8 skaters and a goalie, we can protect all of them, but the forwards is a challenge. If we have essentially the same roster we have today, we protect McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins (assuming he's re-signed) and likely Yamamoto. That means anyone extra we get this year would be exposed, or possibly Puljujarvi.

If we're really being proactive and strategic, we talk to Nugent-Hopkins and agree in concept on a contract, but don't sign it to give us an extra spot. If he gets picked up, you just sign him back as soon as he becomes UFA a couple weeks later.

It does present an interesting challenge going in to next season. Other than goalie, anyone you pick up as UFA is most likely going to face the expansion draft, so there'll be a preference for one-year deals this summer I think. No-move clauses might be at an all-time low too. If the Oilers were to pick up Hall, Krug or Pietrangelo, it almost certainly means they lose someone like Caleb Jones as a result. With a forward, you might be able to do the Nugent-Hopkins gambit - but a defenceman leaves us no options for protecting guys.


I don't think Jones will need protection. While he did play in 2018-2019, it was only 17 games. 40 are needed to get an accrued season. Even if he plays a full season next year, he'll still only have 2 accrued seasons, and won't need to be protected.

EDIT: In fact, I don't think Bear needs to be protected either.

EDIT AGAIN: Maybe they do need to be protected, it says 2 or less "professional" seasons

[Updated on: Sat, 22 August 2020 19:06]


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765799 is a reply to message #765798 ]
Sat, 22 August 2020 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Protection list rules

Each team can protect up to seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goaltender, or nine players regardless of position.

All players with no-movement clauses must be protected unless they’ve agreed to waive.

Any player with two or fewer years of NHL/AHL experience is exempt.

Teams must expose players who meet certain criteria. There must be at least one defensemen and two forwards who are under contract for 2021-22 and played at least 40 NHL games in 2020-21 or 70 NHL games total since the start of 2019-20. Teams must also expose a goaltender who is either under contract for the 2021-22 season or about to enter restricted free agency.

Bear and Jones will both need to be protected with their AHL seasons.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765800 is a reply to message #765799 ]
Sat, 22 August 2020 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 20:20

Protection list rules

Each team can protect up to seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goaltender, or nine players regardless of position.

All players with no-movement clauses must be protected unless they’ve agreed to waive.

Any player with two or fewer years of NHL/AHL experience is exempt.

Teams must expose players who meet certain criteria. There must be at least one defensemen and two forwards who are under contract for 2021-22 and played at least 40 NHL games in 2020-21 or 70 NHL games total since the start of 2019-20. Teams must also expose a goaltender who is either under contract for the 2021-22 season or about to enter restricted free agency.

Bear and Jones will both need to be protected with their AHL seasons.


Who is the D with those games played that we do expose?

Russell? Benning? Think those are the 2 guys on the current roster that could qualify if we protect Klef, Nurse, Jones, Bear. I'm assuming the org would try to hold off a Larsson extension for the draft.

If we manage to dump Russell, and we move on from Benning, I guess we better make sure we pick up someone we don't care to eventually lose on a 2 year deal that satisfies that criteria.

[Updated on: Sat, 22 August 2020 21:06]


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765802 is a reply to message #765800 ]
Sat, 22 August 2020 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 20:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 20:20

Protection list rules

Each team can protect up to seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goaltender, or nine players regardless of position.

All players with no-movement clauses must be protected unless they’ve agreed to waive.

Any player with two or fewer years of NHL/AHL experience is exempt.

Teams must expose players who meet certain criteria. There must be at least one defensemen and two forwards who are under contract for 2021-22 and played at least 40 NHL games in 2020-21 or 70 NHL games total since the start of 2019-20. Teams must also expose a goaltender who is either under contract for the 2021-22 season or about to enter restricted free agency.

Bear and Jones will both need to be protected with their AHL seasons.


Who is the D with those games played that we do expose?

Russell? Benning? Think those are the 2 guys on the current roster that could qualify if we protect Klef, Nurse, Jones, Bear.

If we manage to dump Russell, and we move on from Benning, I guess we better make sure we pick up someone we don't care to eventually lose on a 2 year deal that satisfies that criteria.


Didn't look at it a whole lot but this was a good resource for the LV expansion draft.

https://www.capfriendly.com/expansion-draft/seattle

As next season moves on they will likely keep it up to date with the players that are exempt/not and it pretty easy to simulate scenarios.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765809 is a reply to message #765800 ]
Sun, 23 August 2020 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 20:48

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 20:20

Protection list rules

Each team can protect up to seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goaltender, or nine players regardless of position.

All players with no-movement clauses must be protected unless they’ve agreed to waive.

Any player with two or fewer years of NHL/AHL experience is exempt.

Teams must expose players who meet certain criteria. There must be at least one defensemen and two forwards who are under contract for 2021-22 and played at least 40 NHL games in 2020-21 or 70 NHL games total since the start of 2019-20. Teams must also expose a goaltender who is either under contract for the 2021-22 season or about to enter restricted free agency.

Bear and Jones will both need to be protected with their AHL seasons.


Who is the D with those games played that we do expose?

Russell? Benning? Think those are the 2 guys on the current roster that could qualify if we protect Klef, Nurse, Jones, Bear. I'm assuming the org would try to hold off a Larsson extension for the draft.

If we manage to dump Russell, and we move on from Benning, I guess we better make sure we pick up someone we don't care to eventually lose on a 2 year deal that satisfies that criteria.


Easy money would be on extending Benning to be the ‘defenseman under contract through 2021-2022’. Then whoever is still around of Nurse, Klef, Bear, Jones protected... thankfully this coming season will only be Bouchard’s 2nd full ‘pro’ year so he won’t face exposure.

The expansion draft, coupled with the flat cap, are why I don’t see a lot of change taking place this offseason. I believe we’ll largely see the same group (especially on D) return.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765835 is a reply to message #765809 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Mike wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:20

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 23:20

Protection list rules

Each team can protect up to seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goaltender, or nine players regardless of position.

All players with no-movement clauses must be protected unless they’ve agreed to waive.

Any player with two or fewer years of NHL/AHL experience is exempt.

Teams must expose players who meet certain criteria. There must be at least one defensemen and two forwards who are under contract for 2021-22 and played at least 40 NHL games in 2020-21 or 70 NHL games total since the start of 2019-20. Teams must also expose a goaltender who is either under contract for the 2021-22 season or about to enter restricted free agency.

Bear and Jones will both need to be protected with their AHL seasons.



Well this is different (better) than the Vegas draft, isn't it?

With 9 skaters we'd have:

McDavid
Draisaitl
RNH (if he's under contract - or wait till after the draft)
Klefbom
Nurse
Bear
Jones

That leaves 2 spots - one for hopefully the goalie upgrade we get, and a 2nd for hopefully a new top 6 forward (Yamomoto doesn't need to be protected does he?)




9 players is 8 skaters and a goalie, I believe, so your list is it other than the goalie...

I also believe it's exactly the same as with Vegas.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765832 is a reply to message #765799 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 23:20

Protection list rules

Each team can protect up to seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goaltender, or nine players regardless of position.

All players with no-movement clauses must be protected unless they’ve agreed to waive.

Any player with two or fewer years of NHL/AHL experience is exempt.

Teams must expose players who meet certain criteria. There must be at least one defensemen and two forwards who are under contract for 2021-22 and played at least 40 NHL games in 2020-21 or 70 NHL games total since the start of 2019-20. Teams must also expose a goaltender who is either under contract for the 2021-22 season or about to enter restricted free agency.

Bear and Jones will both need to be protected with their AHL seasons.



Well this is different (better) than the Vegas draft, isn't it?

With 9 skaters we'd have:

McDavid
Draisaitl
RNH (if he's under contract - or wait till after the draft)
Klefbom
Nurse
Bear
Jones

That leaves 2 spots - one for hopefully the goalie upgrade we get, and a 2nd for hopefully a new top 6 forward (Yamomoto doesn't need to be protected does he?)



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765834 is a reply to message #765832 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Mike wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:20

Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 22 August 2020 23:20

Protection list rules

Each team can protect up to seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goaltender, or nine players regardless of position.

All players with no-movement clauses must be protected unless they’ve agreed to waive.

Any player with two or fewer years of NHL/AHL experience is exempt.

Teams must expose players who meet certain criteria. There must be at least one defensemen and two forwards who are under contract for 2021-22 and played at least 40 NHL games in 2020-21 or 70 NHL games total since the start of 2019-20. Teams must also expose a goaltender who is either under contract for the 2021-22 season or about to enter restricted free agency.

Bear and Jones will both need to be protected with their AHL seasons.



Well this is different (better) than the Vegas draft, isn't it?

With 9 skaters we'd have:

McDavid
Draisaitl
RNH (if he's under contract - or wait till after the draft)
Klefbom
Nurse
Bear
Jones

That leaves 2 spots - one for hopefully the goalie upgrade we get, and a 2nd for hopefully a new top 6 forward (Yamomoto doesn't need to be protected does he?)


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765839 is a reply to message #765834 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


For the most part, the league GMs got the Vegas expansion draft right. There were 5 teams that epically screwed up with trades (Florida, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, Anaheim) and 5 more that left good players available. 20 teams lost basically nothing.

The rule I don't understand going into the Seattle expansion draft is that Vegas is exempt. Why? They are better than 25 other teams?



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765841 is a reply to message #765839 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:12



For the most part, the league GMs got the Vegas expansion draft right. There were 5 teams that epically screwed up with trades (Florida, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, Anaheim) and 5 more that left good players available. 20 teams lost basically nothing.

The rule I don't understand going into the Seattle expansion draft is that Vegas is exempt. Why? They are better than 25 other teams?


Well Nashville got screwed in the short-term...more like Poile screwed up exposing James Neal which at that point had only one more year on his prior contract. I believe Nashville could've gotten farther in 2018 with that year's version of Neal since he was skilled & strong enough to generate offense in heavy traffic areas. His absence was evident against Winnipeg in 2018 and then subsequently very evident against the Stars in 2019.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765840 is a reply to message #765834 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


There is an element of risk to this, but I'd still pursue the strategy if I could get the warm and fuzzies from Nuge. It helps the team if we have one more person to protect.

That said, the funny thing now is that there's virtually no one else you need to protect here. Looking at the roster list, all the rest are really just-a-guy's who can be replaced without much heartburn. Larsson is UFA as well, so limited appeal to Seattle. Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765842 is a reply to message #765840 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


There is an element of risk to this, but I'd still pursue the strategy if I could get the warm and fuzzies from Nuge. It helps the team if we have one more person to protect.

That said, the funny thing now is that there's virtually no one else you need to protect here. Looking at the roster list, all the rest are really just-a-guy's who can be replaced without much heartburn. Larsson is UFA as well, so limited appeal to Seattle. Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.

For it to work, in my opinion ideally, you have the entire contract worked out, signed and ready to go with the only thing left to do being to submit it to the league. In theory if both the team and player are happy, they both get everything they want in a contact, why not wait so they can keep the team stronger and give it a better chance to win.

I do agree with you though, if they had to protect Nuge because he is signed and they go McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Yamo, Klef, Nurse, Bear, Jones, today there really isn't a player on their roster who it would cripple them if they lost. Things could change though.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765848 is a reply to message #765842 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:37

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


There is an element of risk to this, but I'd still pursue the strategy if I could get the warm and fuzzies from Nuge. It helps the team if we have one more person to protect.

That said, the funny thing now is that there's virtually no one else you need to protect here. Looking at the roster list, all the rest are really just-a-guy's who can be replaced without much heartburn. Larsson is UFA as well, so limited appeal to Seattle. Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.

For it to work, in my opinion ideally, you have the entire contract worked out, signed and ready to go with the only thing left to do being to submit it to the league. In theory if both the team and player are happy, they both get everything they want in a contact, why not wait so they can keep the team stronger and give it a better chance to win.

I do agree with you though, if they had to protect Nuge because he is signed and they go McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Yamo, Klef, Nurse, Bear, Jones, today there really isn't a player on their roster who it would cripple them if they lost. Things could change though.


There's no chance I sign a deal ahead of that draft. If it ever came out, then you'd have serious consequences from the league. It could be verbally agreed to, but once both sides sign off on it, it's a done deal and it only takes one person on the team with loose lips, or one aide at the player agency who secretly cheers for the Flames, and all of a sudden your best laid plans are ash.

There's plausible deniability as long as you don't sign it.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765850 is a reply to message #765848 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:37

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


There is an element of risk to this, but I'd still pursue the strategy if I could get the warm and fuzzies from Nuge. It helps the team if we have one more person to protect.

That said, the funny thing now is that there's virtually no one else you need to protect here. Looking at the roster list, all the rest are really just-a-guy's who can be replaced without much heartburn. Larsson is UFA as well, so limited appeal to Seattle. Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.

For it to work, in my opinion ideally, you have the entire contract worked out, signed and ready to go with the only thing left to do being to submit it to the league. In theory if both the team and player are happy, they both get everything they want in a contact, why not wait so they can keep the team stronger and give it a better chance to win.

I do agree with you though, if they had to protect Nuge because he is signed and they go McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Yamo, Klef, Nurse, Bear, Jones, today there really isn't a player on their roster who it would cripple them if they lost. Things could change though.


There's no chance I sign a deal ahead of that draft. If it ever came out, then you'd have serious consequences from the league. It could be verbally agreed to, but once both sides sign off on it, it's a done deal and it only takes one person on the team with loose lips, or one aide at the player agency who secretly cheers for the Flames, and all of a sudden your best laid plans are ash.

There's plausible deniability as long as you don't sign it.

So all those years when July 1 hit and a few mins after free agency opened, players had signed contracts submitted with bonus clauses and players making this many millions 1 year and less the next and more the year after, no moves/no trades and whatever else all figured out between agent/player and team and all that happened in a matter of mins with nothing more than a verbally agreement in place? Riiigghttttt.

Even with this new courting period happening now and these players meet with and often times visit multiple teams and their facilities in different cities all over a span of a couple of days. Free agency hits and a contract and all it's complexities magically gets figured out, written down, reviewed, edited and signed off on in a matter of minutes with nothing more than a verbal agreement in place? Come on man, you actually believe these guys don't have things all written out and agreed upon well in advance? I believe a lot of the agents are lawyers, does a lawyer do anything fast? Not to mention these guys have multiple clients often times to look after at the same time. I get they have people helping them out but I really doubt these deals get put together in a matter of minutes, maybe an hour based on just a verbal agreement.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765860 is a reply to message #765850 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:22

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:37

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


There is an element of risk to this, but I'd still pursue the strategy if I could get the warm and fuzzies from Nuge. It helps the team if we have one more person to protect.

That said, the funny thing now is that there's virtually no one else you need to protect here. Looking at the roster list, all the rest are really just-a-guy's who can be replaced without much heartburn. Larsson is UFA as well, so limited appeal to Seattle. Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.

For it to work, in my opinion ideally, you have the entire contract worked out, signed and ready to go with the only thing left to do being to submit it to the league. In theory if both the team and player are happy, they both get everything they want in a contact, why not wait so they can keep the team stronger and give it a better chance to win.

I do agree with you though, if they had to protect Nuge because he is signed and they go McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Yamo, Klef, Nurse, Bear, Jones, today there really isn't a player on their roster who it would cripple them if they lost. Things could change though.


There's no chance I sign a deal ahead of that draft. If it ever came out, then you'd have serious consequences from the league. It could be verbally agreed to, but once both sides sign off on it, it's a done deal and it only takes one person on the team with loose lips, or one aide at the player agency who secretly cheers for the Flames, and all of a sudden your best laid plans are ash.

There's plausible deniability as long as you don't sign it.

So all those years when July 1 hit and a few mins after free agency opened, players had signed contracts submitted with bonus clauses and players making this many millions 1 year and less the next and more the year after, no moves/no trades and whatever else all figured out between agent/player and team and all that happened in a matter of mins with nothing more than a verbally agreement in place? Riiigghttttt.

Even with this new courting period happening now and these players meet with and often times visit multiple teams and their facilities in different cities all over a span of a couple of days. Free agency hits and a contract and all it's complexities magically gets figured out, written down, reviewed, edited and signed off on in a matter of minutes with nothing more than a verbal agreement in place? Come on man, you actually believe these guys don't have things all written out and agreed upon well in advance? I believe a lot of the agents are lawyers, does a lawyer do anything fast? Not to mention these guys have multiple clients often times to look after at the same time. I get they have people helping them out but I really doubt these deals get put together in a matter of minutes, maybe an hour based on just a verbal agreement.


The contracts are ready and may have been verbally discussed - but they aren't storing signed copies. That creates a paper trail and major headaches if a team gets caught.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765861 is a reply to message #765860 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 14:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:22

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:37

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


There is an element of risk to this, but I'd still pursue the strategy if I could get the warm and fuzzies from Nuge. It helps the team if we have one more person to protect.

That said, the funny thing now is that there's virtually no one else you need to protect here. Looking at the roster list, all the rest are really just-a-guy's who can be replaced without much heartburn. Larsson is UFA as well, so limited appeal to Seattle. Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.

For it to work, in my opinion ideally, you have the entire contract worked out, signed and ready to go with the only thing left to do being to submit it to the league. In theory if both the team and player are happy, they both get everything they want in a contact, why not wait so they can keep the team stronger and give it a better chance to win.

I do agree with you though, if they had to protect Nuge because he is signed and they go McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Yamo, Klef, Nurse, Bear, Jones, today there really isn't a player on their roster who it would cripple them if they lost. Things could change though.


There's no chance I sign a deal ahead of that draft. If it ever came out, then you'd have serious consequences from the league. It could be verbally agreed to, but once both sides sign off on it, it's a done deal and it only takes one person on the team with loose lips, or one aide at the player agency who secretly cheers for the Flames, and all of a sudden your best laid plans are ash.

There's plausible deniability as long as you don't sign it.

So all those years when July 1 hit and a few mins after free agency opened, players had signed contracts submitted with bonus clauses and players making this many millions 1 year and less the next and more the year after, no moves/no trades and whatever else all figured out between agent/player and team and all that happened in a matter of mins with nothing more than a verbally agreement in place? Riiigghttttt.

Even with this new courting period happening now and these players meet with and often times visit multiple teams and their facilities in different cities all over a span of a couple of days. Free agency hits and a contract and all it's complexities magically gets figured out, written down, reviewed, edited and signed off on in a matter of minutes with nothing more than a verbal agreement in place? Come on man, you actually believe these guys don't have things all written out and agreed upon well in advance? I believe a lot of the agents are lawyers, does a lawyer do anything fast? Not to mention these guys have multiple clients often times to look after at the same time. I get they have people helping them out but I really doubt these deals get put together in a matter of minutes, maybe an hour based on just a verbal agreement.


The contracts are ready and may have been verbally discussed - but they aren't storing signed copies. That creates a paper trail and major headaches if a team gets caught.

Maybe they aren't signed but you don't think they are completely made up, everything written out, reviewed by both sides and agreed upon so all you have to do is sign them? I really have a hard time believing that all that happens is the agents and GM talk about what each side wants, agree to it verbally but nothing is completed before hand then when the time comes, it all gets written out, exchanged, reviewed, edited, goes back and forth, then signed and all this happens in a matter of an hour. I don't buy it.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765863 is a reply to message #765861 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 14:31

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 14:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:22

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:37

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


There is an element of risk to this, but I'd still pursue the strategy if I could get the warm and fuzzies from Nuge. It helps the team if we have one more person to protect.

That said, the funny thing now is that there's virtually no one else you need to protect here. Looking at the roster list, all the rest are really just-a-guy's who can be replaced without much heartburn. Larsson is UFA as well, so limited appeal to Seattle. Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.

For it to work, in my opinion ideally, you have the entire contract worked out, signed and ready to go with the only thing left to do being to submit it to the league. In theory if both the team and player are happy, they both get everything they want in a contact, why not wait so they can keep the team stronger and give it a better chance to win.

I do agree with you though, if they had to protect Nuge because he is signed and they go McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Yamo, Klef, Nurse, Bear, Jones, today there really isn't a player on their roster who it would cripple them if they lost. Things could change though.


There's no chance I sign a deal ahead of that draft. If it ever came out, then you'd have serious consequences from the league. It could be verbally agreed to, but once both sides sign off on it, it's a done deal and it only takes one person on the team with loose lips, or one aide at the player agency who secretly cheers for the Flames, and all of a sudden your best laid plans are ash.

There's plausible deniability as long as you don't sign it.

So all those years when July 1 hit and a few mins after free agency opened, players had signed contracts submitted with bonus clauses and players making this many millions 1 year and less the next and more the year after, no moves/no trades and whatever else all figured out between agent/player and team and all that happened in a matter of mins with nothing more than a verbally agreement in place? Riiigghttttt.

Even with this new courting period happening now and these players meet with and often times visit multiple teams and their facilities in different cities all over a span of a couple of days. Free agency hits and a contract and all it's complexities magically gets figured out, written down, reviewed, edited and signed off on in a matter of minutes with nothing more than a verbal agreement in place? Come on man, you actually believe these guys don't have things all written out and agreed upon well in advance? I believe a lot of the agents are lawyers, does a lawyer do anything fast? Not to mention these guys have multiple clients often times to look after at the same time. I get they have people helping them out but I really doubt these deals get put together in a matter of minutes, maybe an hour based on just a verbal agreement.


The contracts are ready and may have been verbally discussed - but they aren't storing signed copies. That creates a paper trail and major headaches if a team gets caught.

Maybe they aren't signed but you don't think they are completely made up, everything written out, reviewed by both sides and agreed upon so all you have to do is sign them? I really have a hard time believing that all that happens is the agents and GM talk about what each side wants, agree to it verbally but nothing is completed before hand then when the time comes, it all gets written out, exchanged, reviewed, edited, goes back and forth, then signed and all this happens in a matter of an hour. I don't buy it.


A couple things:

- Because there's a standard players' contract, there doesn't need to be the same review that would be necessary once upon a time.
- Understand, it would be tampering to send a contract with details to the player's agent while he's still another team's property. They can skirt this with conversations because they can just say they were talking conceptually with an agent about any number of players and because it's hard to prove what was and wasn't discussed on a phone call. Putting something in writing and emailing it to the other side creates a paper trail that could easily be followed. There are consequences for tampering, so a smart GM isn't going to leave himself exposed like that.
- I'm not part of an NHL team, so I don't know exactly how it works, but it would not surprise me if they were not contracts sent on July one, but more memorandum of understandings - setting out the deal terms, but leaving the contract to be filled out until later. Those can still be binding and could be filed with the league in lieu of signed contracts while the lawyers complete a review.

The problem with a paper trail is that all it takes is for one person to feel upset with how something goes, and you could have a leak that the NHL would be forced to deal with - and they'd have to come down hard on a team for that. Verbal's easy and gets you to virtually the same place anyhow without the risk.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765864 is a reply to message #765863 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 14:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 14:31

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 14:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:22

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:37

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 10:47


I have said it before, I wonder if the Oilers work out a deal with Nuge to have an extension in place but not filed with the league. He would be a UFA when the expansion draft takes place. Seattle can take him but they'd risk picking a UFA who can go anywhere and Nuge himself could tell them don't take me because I won't sign. That would allow the Oilers to protect someone else, then as soon as the draft is over, they can announce the new deal.

Nuge was drafted by the Oilers, spent his whole time with the Oilers, went through all the crap with the Oilers. My guess is with the team on the rise and about to get good, he would like to be a part of that vs going to an expansion team that will probably not be as good. I do not think Seattle will be as good as Vegas because they won't be gifted top 6 forwards and top dman like Vegas was. A lot of NHL GM's screwed up royally with the Vegas draft so I don't see that happening again. Plus Nuge's wife is from RD so he's got pretty big ties to Alberta.


There is an element of risk to this, but I'd still pursue the strategy if I could get the warm and fuzzies from Nuge. It helps the team if we have one more person to protect.

That said, the funny thing now is that there's virtually no one else you need to protect here. Looking at the roster list, all the rest are really just-a-guy's who can be replaced without much heartburn. Larsson is UFA as well, so limited appeal to Seattle. Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.

For it to work, in my opinion ideally, you have the entire contract worked out, signed and ready to go with the only thing left to do being to submit it to the league. In theory if both the team and player are happy, they both get everything they want in a contact, why not wait so they can keep the team stronger and give it a better chance to win.

I do agree with you though, if they had to protect Nuge because he is signed and they go McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Yamo, Klef, Nurse, Bear, Jones, today there really isn't a player on their roster who it would cripple them if they lost. Things could change though.


There's no chance I sign a deal ahead of that draft. If it ever came out, then you'd have serious consequences from the league. It could be verbally agreed to, but once both sides sign off on it, it's a done deal and it only takes one person on the team with loose lips, or one aide at the player agency who secretly cheers for the Flames, and all of a sudden your best laid plans are ash.

There's plausible deniability as long as you don't sign it.

So all those years when July 1 hit and a few mins after free agency opened, players had signed contracts submitted with bonus clauses and players making this many millions 1 year and less the next and more the year after, no moves/no trades and whatever else all figured out between agent/player and team and all that happened in a matter of mins with nothing more than a verbally agreement in place? Riiigghttttt.

Even with this new courting period happening now and these players meet with and often times visit multiple teams and their facilities in different cities all over a span of a couple of days. Free agency hits and a contract and all it's complexities magically gets figured out, written down, reviewed, edited and signed off on in a matter of minutes with nothing more than a verbal agreement in place? Come on man, you actually believe these guys don't have things all written out and agreed upon well in advance? I believe a lot of the agents are lawyers, does a lawyer do anything fast? Not to mention these guys have multiple clients often times to look after at the same time. I get they have people helping them out but I really doubt these deals get put together in a matter of minutes, maybe an hour based on just a verbal agreement.


The contracts are ready and may have been verbally discussed - but they aren't storing signed copies. That creates a paper trail and major headaches if a team gets caught.

Maybe they aren't signed but you don't think they are completely made up, everything written out, reviewed by both sides and agreed upon so all you have to do is sign them? I really have a hard time believing that all that happens is the agents and GM talk about what each side wants, agree to it verbally but nothing is completed before hand then when the time comes, it all gets written out, exchanged, reviewed, edited, goes back and forth, then signed and all this happens in a matter of an hour. I don't buy it.


A couple things:

- Because there's a standard players' contract, there doesn't need to be the same review that would be necessary once upon a time.
- Understand, it would be tampering to send a contract with details to the player's agent while he's still another team's property. They can skirt this with conversations because they can just say they were talking conceptually with an agent about any number of players and because it's hard to prove what was and wasn't discussed on a phone call. Putting something in writing and emailing it to the other side creates a paper trail that could easily be followed. There are consequences for tampering, so a smart GM isn't going to leave himself exposed like that.
- I'm not part of an NHL team, so I don't know exactly how it works, but it would not surprise me if they were not contracts sent on July one, but more memorandum of understandings - setting out the deal terms, but leaving the contract to be filled out until later. Those can still be binding and could be filed with the league in lieu of signed contracts while the lawyers complete a review.

The problem with a paper trail is that all it takes is for one person to feel upset with how something goes, and you could have a leak that the NHL would be forced to deal with - and they'd have to come down hard on a team for that. Verbal's easy and gets you to virtually the same place anyhow without the risk.

Well we can argue all day about this. I am sure you are right that they aren't coming up with every single page from scratch. As you said, I am sure there is lots of it that is the same for every guy that gets an NHL contract but I just don't buy none of the details don't get worked out well in advance. The timelines for how fast some of these deals come out just don't add up without significant amount of the work being done well before hand. All these agents have multiple clients on every team that I would bet get talked about all the time "unofficially". A GM calls about player X, then in passing player Y gets brought up and details gets thrown out, stuff gets exchanged. etc then magically a contract appears.

I could be completely wrong but I just don't buy that everything is done by the book and teams don't have deals in place WAY before they come out. I am sure there is a way where if both sides wanted too, Nuge and the team could have a contact all figured out well in advance and it be more than Holland/Nuge giving their word what they talked about on the phone will happen.

[Updated on: Mon, 24 August 2020 14:53]


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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765843 is a reply to message #765840 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 15:18

Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.


Ouff - how sad is that?



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765845 is a reply to message #765843 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Mike wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 15:18

Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.


Ouff - how sad is that?


It's...perfect! All part of the plan to set ourselves up to not lose anything of value to the expansion draft.



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- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765849 is a reply to message #765845 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:45

Mike wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 15:18

Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.


Ouff - how sad is that?


It's...perfect! All part of the plan to set ourselves up to not lose anything of value to the expansion draft.


Honestly, it's pretty damning that we could conceivably go through two expansion drafts in 4 years and not lose a single player off the active roster.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765854 is a reply to message #765849 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:09

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:45

Mike wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 15:18

Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.


Ouff - how sad is that?


It's...perfect! All part of the plan to set ourselves up to not lose anything of value to the expansion draft.


Honestly, it's pretty damning that we could conceivably go through two expansion drafts in 4 years and not lose a single player off the active roster.


Damning? Just good asset management. The key to keeping assets is to just not have very many.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765856 is a reply to message #765849 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:09

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:45

Mike wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 15:18

Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.


Ouff - how sad is that?


It's...perfect! All part of the plan to set ourselves up to not lose anything of value to the expansion draft.


Honestly, it's pretty damning that we could conceivably go through two expansion drafts in 4 years and not lose a single player off the active roster.

In fairness, I was baffled that Vegas took Reinhart. By the time the expansion draft came around, we all knew he was lousy and couldn't play. If I could have hand picked which player to take, it would have been him.



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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765857 is a reply to message #765856 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:56

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:09

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:45

Mike wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 15:18

Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.


Ouff - how sad is that?


It's...perfect! All part of the plan to set ourselves up to not lose anything of value to the expansion draft.


Honestly, it's pretty damning that we could conceivably go through two expansion drafts in 4 years and not lose a single player off the active roster.

In fairness, I was baffled that Vegas took Reinhart. By the time the expansion draft came around, we all knew he was lousy and couldn't play. If I could have hand picked which player to take, it would have been him.


What were the other options? Khaira and Brossoit? I forget if there was anything else of use. I seem to recall the joke being that the traded ended up being Barzal for saving Khaira.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

"In Brad we trust"
- All Oilers fans, Present Day

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 Re: Decisions Looming [message #765858 is a reply to message #765857 ]
Mon, 24 August 2020 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 14:07

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:56

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 13:09

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:45

Mike wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 12:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 24 August 2020 15:18

Honestly, if the draft was today, I think they'd take Puljujarvi and roll the dice on him. There's just nothing else worth pursuing off our roster.


Ouff - how sad is that?


It's...perfect! All part of the plan to set ourselves up to not lose anything of value to the expansion draft.


Honestly, it's pretty damning that we could conceivably go through two expansion drafts in 4 years and not lose a single player off the active roster.

In fairness, I was baffled that Vegas took Reinhart. By the time the expansion draft came around, we all knew he was lousy and couldn't play. If I could have hand picked which player to take, it would have been him.


What were the other options? Khaira and Brossoit? I forget if there was anything else of use. I seem to recall the joke being that the traded ended up being Barzal for saving Khaira.

I don't remember the Oilers roster that year. I don't even think Reinhart was even in the NHL much. He couldn't skate, questionable puck moving and didn't have a pulse when he played. There had to of been a 3rd/4th liner available over him.



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