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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738000 is a reply to message #737996 ]
Sat, 25 May 2019 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Magnum wrote on Sat, 25 May 2019 08:40

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Sat, 25 May 2019 08:07

no ties to the "old boys club". Dave Tippit has no ties either... Optimism is needed badly.


If anything is going to kindle my optimism. It's untethering from Lowe and Co.

That said, we'll know what Holland is capable of by the end of the summer, by the composition of his team.

So many years, this site has gotten the quality of the team composition right. That is, we typically, as a collective, have a pretty good grasp of how a known set of players will perform at the beginning of a season. We often get the individuals wrong (Peter, specific players, etc.), but rarely the group.

In reality, Chia had a decent first two years. Even with the terrible Hall trade, he didn't hurt the team all that much. After the playoff run, some switch was flipped. My guess is that the boys thought they were invincible after getting an intoxicating wiff of that old glory, and all conservatism went out the window, which was replaced by management bravado and gut-moves.


His first two years were solid.

And then we lost Eberle, Sekera was hurt for most of both seasons, we lost Pouliot, we lost Desharnais, etc. Later we also lost Maroon, and even Letestu. More recently Caggiula. And nothing was done to replace those points and minutes.

Aside from Lucic falling off a cliff, most of all that was GMing.



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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738005 is a reply to message #738000 ]
Sun, 26 May 2019 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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nullterm wrote on Sat, 25 May 2019 15:14

Magnum wrote on Sat, 25 May 2019 08:40

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Sat, 25 May 2019 08:07

no ties to the "old boys club". Dave Tippit has no ties either... Optimism is needed badly.


If anything is going to kindle my optimism. It's untethering from Lowe and Co.

That said, we'll know what Holland is capable of by the end of the summer, by the composition of his team.

So many years, this site has gotten the quality of the team composition right. That is, we typically, as a collective, have a pretty good grasp of how a known set of players will perform at the beginning of a season. We often get the individuals wrong (Peter, specific players, etc.), but rarely the group.

In reality, Chia had a decent first two years. Even with the terrible Hall trade, he didn't hurt the team all that much. After the playoff run, some switch was flipped. My guess is that the boys thought they were invincible after getting an intoxicating wiff of that old glory, and all conservatism went out the window, which was replaced by management bravado and gut-moves.


His first two years were solid.

And then we lost Eberle, Sekera was hurt for most of both seasons, we lost Pouliot, we lost Desharnais, etc. Later we also lost Maroon, and even Letestu. More recently Caggiula. And nothing was done to replace those points and minutes.

Aside from Lucic falling off a cliff, most of all that was GMing.


In the first two years, Chia did all of the following:

- Traded 1st and 2nd round picks for Reinhart
- Decided we needed a drastic change after a season with multiple serious injuries to key players
- Traded Hall for Larsson
- Signed Lucic
- Faced with a playoff berth and a pretty weak looking Western conference, he decided to publicly say the team wasn't ready, and the only deadline deal he made was Davidson for Desharnais.

Even if you're generous enough not to include the summer after the playoffs, (where he suddenly decided the team was totally ready and could afford to shed talent simply because they won a playoff round), it wasn't like he was doing a good job. He was a disaster from Day One. Pretty disappointing, because I was excited that it was someone new, and someone with some experience other than just playing hockey for a living. Sadly, if it's the wrong guy and he's terrible, it doesn't matter what his background is.



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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #737998 is a reply to message #737994 ]
Sat, 25 May 2019 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue  is currently offline overdue
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Quote:

Optimism is needed badly.

You can't help but feel more optimistic with Holland in charge but at the same time he has a lot of damage to undo before things round into the form he will be looking for. No problems with Tippet as coach either, the situation requires experience and I trust Holland's judgement there because of how key it is. I know they will be more competitive but not sure how much more until the dust settles. I think the Lowe thing can be worked around now that MacT is gone and Holland has the reins. He's no fool.

[Updated on: Sun, 26 May 2019 18:16]


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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738056 is a reply to message #737994 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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clutchlikeeberle wrote on Sat, 25 May 2019 08:07

Ken Holland is a class A hockey man, and do not give me this crap about so was PC - he a solid tenure with Boston, had some good pieces in place when he went there and so be it. I thought he was a solid hire at the time - but hey - I was wrong. But, lets not compare Ken Holland and PC, we have a top notch hockey man leading this franchise, who has no ties to the "old boys club". Dave Tippit has no ties either and has proven to be a solid coach in the past and Seattle thought enough of him to bring him in to help lead their path into the NHL. So, for once, for the love of god can we think that this is not the past, this is the future. Optimism is needed badly.


I don't remember anyone really panning PC when he was hired, or McClellan when he was hired. I'm not going to pretend to know that there is a better coaching candidate than Tippit for this team. I just think that given the last 13 years of history, there are going to be some that s--t on the Oilers no matter the choice....it's just so easy.



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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738057 is a reply to message #738056 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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K.McC#24 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 17:48

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Sat, 25 May 2019 08:07

Ken Holland is a class A hockey man, and do not give me this crap about so was PC - he a solid tenure with Boston, had some good pieces in place when he went there and so be it. I thought he was a solid hire at the time - but hey - I was wrong. But, lets not compare Ken Holland and PC, we have a top notch hockey man leading this franchise, who has no ties to the "old boys club". Dave Tippit has no ties either and has proven to be a solid coach in the past and Seattle thought enough of him to bring him in to help lead their path into the NHL. So, for once, for the love of god can we think that this is not the past, this is the future. Optimism is needed badly.


I don't remember anyone really panning PC when he was hired, or McClellan when he was hired. I'm not going to pretend to know that there is a better coaching candidate than Tippit for this team. I just think that given the last 13 years of history, there are going to be some that s--t on the Oilers no matter the choice....it's just so easy.



Boston fans did warn us about Chia though. Obviously how he traded Seguin, Kessel and Wheeler, who went on to have their best years somewhere else. Also, how he got Boston into cap hell, which they are finally coming out of thanks to cap increases. He did the exact same things here, with the added pain of how the league shifted away from what Chia believed was needed to win games, so he was even more screwed.

McLellan too, basically everything San Jose fans warned us about came true. Get nothing from depth, top loads lineups and runs guys into the ground, can't adjust, stubborn as well, falls in love with Letestu's.


Holland doesn't have near the same blemishes on his record that Chia had. I don't think he has ever traded away a young early 20's talent that went on to be great for someone else, which Chia has done almost half a dozen times. Tippett, he is kind of like Trotz. Years of getting the most he can out of weak lineups, just never had the talent to get anything done. Just, he had even less to work with than Trotz did in Nashville.


Don't want to go all in and predict cup wins in a few years, but I do find I require a lot less cognitive dissonance to be positive about Holland and Tippett, vs Chia and McLellan. With Chia and McLellan, there was always some crap I had to ignore in my desperate attempts to believe the team would finally not suck. Unfortunately they, Chia especially, refused to allow me to keep that stuff repressed because they just help piling the crap on.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2019 18:18]


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-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738008 is a reply to message #737161 ]
Sun, 26 May 2019 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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SO Leavins says likely Holland makes the announcement between game 1 and 2 of the finals, I guess so it flies under the radar and isn't stealing any spotlight before the finals begin.

Last time Holland hired a coach (Blashill) it was announced between games 3 and 4 of the cup finals.



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738012 is a reply to message #738008 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 00:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 26 May 2019 18:36

SO Leavins says likely Holland makes the announcement between game 1 and 2 of the finals, I guess so it flies under the radar and isn't stealing any spotlight before the finals begin.

Last time Holland hired a coach (Blashill) it was announced between games 3 and 4 of the cup finals.

Seeing how everyone has forgotten the finals are happening this year, it seems pretty safe to suggest hiring a coach will fly under the radar. Ha. Just kidding, we’ll roast them during the cup finals too. I hope someone asks Dave if he’ll have an impact on season ticket sales.



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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738024 is a reply to message #737161 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Hearing Oilers will announce their new head coach in the next few days. Dave Tippett still the only name we’re hearing.



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- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738025 is a reply to message #738024 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:35

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Hearing Oilers will announce their new head coach in the next few days. Dave Tippett still the only name we’re hearing.




If he's the only one on their list, as was rumoured last week, it does seem like it would be a major stretch to think that anyone else is going to get the job. To announce someone else if the whole thing is on pause waiting on Tippett would be a rebound signing worthy of Peter Chiarelli!



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738027 is a reply to message #738025 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Based on how long it is taking, it seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which if that is the case, that is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2019 09:50]


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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738029 is a reply to message #738027 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?



"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738030 is a reply to message #738029 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?


If I am the Oilers and the deal is done, I say screw you to the NHL and announce it. Pay back for the stupidest rule EVER where the Oilers had to give up a draft pick to hire Chia when he was FIRED and a draft pick to hire McLellan when he was FIRED only to have the league get rid of the rule right after the Oilers paid the picks.



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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738038 is a reply to message #738030 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 08:53

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?


If I am the Oilers and the deal is done, I say screw you to the NHL and announce it. Pay back for the stupidest rule EVER where the Oilers had to give up a draft pick to hire Chia when he was FIRED and a draft pick to hire McLellan when he was FIRED only to have the league get rid of the rule right after the Oilers paid the picks.


Maybe waiting to give the NHL the spotlight first means we get better refereeing? confused2



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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738044 is a reply to message #738038 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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nullterm wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 11:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 08:53

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?


If I am the Oilers and the deal is done, I say screw you to the NHL and announce it. Pay back for the stupidest rule EVER where the Oilers had to give up a draft pick to hire Chia when he was FIRED and a draft pick to hire McLellan when he was FIRED only to have the league get rid of the rule right after the Oilers paid the picks.


Maybe waiting to give the NHL the spotlight first means we get better refereeing? confused2


Never complaining about the referees didn't seem to lead to any better refereeing...in fact, it might have been worse.

Maybe we SHOULD be a squeaky wheel on this stuff?



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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738049 is a reply to message #738030 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:53

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?


If I am the Oilers and the deal is done, I say screw you to the NHL and announce it. Pay back for the stupidest rule EVER where the Oilers had to give up a draft pick to hire Chia when he was FIRED and a draft pick to hire McLellan when he was FIRED only to have the league get rid of the rule right after the Oilers paid the picks.

The guy the Bruins took with that pick had 83 points in 60 games last season. The pick to the Sharks for Todd went for a goalie.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738050 is a reply to message #738049 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 13:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:53

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?


If I am the Oilers and the deal is done, I say screw you to the NHL and announce it. Pay back for the stupidest rule EVER where the Oilers had to give up a draft pick to hire Chia when he was FIRED and a draft pick to hire McLellan when he was FIRED only to have the league get rid of the rule right after the Oilers paid the picks.

The guy the Bruins took with that pick had 83 points in 60 games last season. The pick to the Sharks for Todd went for a goalie.


Which were the picks? Who did they draft with them?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738054 is a reply to message #738050 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 13:44

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 13:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:53

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?


If I am the Oilers and the deal is done, I say screw you to the NHL and announce it. Pay back for the stupidest rule EVER where the Oilers had to give up a draft pick to hire Chia when he was FIRED and a draft pick to hire McLellan when he was FIRED only to have the league get rid of the rule right after the Oilers paid the picks.

The guy the Bruins took with that pick had 83 points in 60 games last season. The pick to the Sharks for Todd went for a goalie.


Which were the picks? Who did they draft with them?

2015 #86 Mike Robinson (G) United States San Jose Sharks (from St. Louis via Edmonton)
2017 #53 Jack Studnicka (C) Canada Canada Boston Bruins (from Edmonton)



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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738051 is a reply to message #738049 ]
Mon, 27 May 2019 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 13:39

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:53

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?


If I am the Oilers and the deal is done, I say screw you to the NHL and announce it. Pay back for the stupidest rule EVER where the Oilers had to give up a draft pick to hire Chia when he was FIRED and a draft pick to hire McLellan when he was FIRED only to have the league get rid of the rule right after the Oilers paid the picks.

The guy the Bruins took with that pick had 83 points in 60 games last season. The pick to the Sharks for Todd went for a goalie.


***83P in 60 games in the OHL in his Draft+2 year

There is still hope! Send your negative energy this kids way.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 May 2019 14:27]


"The Edmonton Oilers are not where they should be right now and that is unacceptable. We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
-Kevin Lowe, April 2013


"Next year (15/16) I would forecast as another developmental year"
- #2, April 2015

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 Re: Coaching Changes [message #738074 is a reply to message #738029 ]
Tue, 28 May 2019 08:11 Go to previous message
Magnum  is currently offline Magnum
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 27 May 2019 09:46

Sounds like Holland and Tippett are just working on the contract and have been for the last few days. Seems like Holland is grinding him a bit which is a good thing I believe. If that is true, a big departure from the Chia days where it was just give whoever whatever they want.


Some are insisting the deal is done, they just don't want to announce it before the finals start, because I guess that's just not nice to do?


I cannot imagine the lack of negotiation position Holland has.

KH: Hey Dave, want to work for the Oilers!

DT: You mean the team that's been a dumpster fire for the past 11 years and has ruined many management careers?

KH: But the owner wants to win!

DT: You mean the owner that hires all his friends that are historically terrible in this business? Then never fires them? Or let's them leave for a few years and come back when times are good?

KH: I'm autonomous!

DT: Wasn't Chiarelli?

KH: Yeah, but I'm autonomous like no other.

DT: Why is Gretzky still there?

KH: Which one?

DT: Good point. Both?

KH: Wayne's only on the business side.

DT: The website says he's both.

KH: the website is wrong?

DT: So you're not autonomous?

KH: No, the website is right in that instance?

DT: So why is Gretzky still there?

KH: He makes good wine. Well, I mean, it's okay. But it's free and by free, I mean, he ropes Katz in to buying a FT of it for the management team. So it's free for me and it could be free for US!

DT: Sounds dumb. Why is the other Gretzky there?

KH: He was great in Boston, they're going to win the cup this year.

DT: Why did he leave Boston then?

KH: Politics.

DT: What does that mean?

KH: What? Who am I? Justin Trudeau?

DT: Maybe, you did tie yourself to an organization with terrible people and ideas that don't ever pan out.

KH: This time it'll be different, MacT went to Russia.

DT: Did he bring Lowe, Gretzky, Gretzky, Howson, and Messier with him? Will they want me to make weird commercials?

KH: I can tell you have reservations, and I did too. But after learning more about what being part of the Oilers meant, I fully...

DT: ...expect to retire on giant heap on money. Don't get me wrong, I'm interested. Let's just not pretend that this is a negotiation. I'm going to name a price that will pay for both my embarrassment for being part of the Oilers and for this career ending move.

KH (to himself): So this is what Chia's job was like. Maybe it wasn't just him. Work conditions... management reputation... hmmmmm.

KH: Career ending? What?

DT: Are you telling me you didn't take a career end/retirement contract with the Oilers.

KH: No...

DT: Right. Okay, I want lots of term and lots of money. I'm really excited to be part of the Oilers! I really like what you guys are doing here.



[Updated on: Tue, 28 May 2019 08:33]


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2016/2017 - This Kool-Aid is starting to taste like juice.
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2018/2019 - Another round of Drain-O, good sir!

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