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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829843 is a reply to message #829840 ]	Fri, 16 February 2024 12:48

oilfan94
Messages: 343
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 16 February 2024 13:32

You can't forget, Nashville retained some of Ekholm's salary. that's what tipped the scale.

Fun fact, the Ekholm salary retention is the lowest percentage of retention in NHL cap history at 4%.

Lowest in actual dollars was $62,500, which was 10.2% of Ben Scriven's salary when the Leafs traded him to the Kings in 2013. Somehow I feel like that one will not be beaten. Ekholm is 8th lowest in actual dollars retained.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829844 is a reply to message #829843 ]	Fri, 16 February 2024 13:09

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 710
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I bet Holland can beat that We'll retain 4% of Kulak!

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829848 is a reply to message #829840 ]	Fri, 16 February 2024 17:52

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3908
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 16 February 2024 10:32

You can't forget, Nashville retained some of Ekholm's salary. that's what tipped the scale.

Ha! I remembered ($250K) but too lazy to type it in.. lol
Funny thing is I think the 250 was actually needed to enable getting under the cap for the trade deadline....

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829960 is a reply to message #829848 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 09:06

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Should the focus be a 3rd line center?

I am not here to bash McLeod. I think he's been fine. I'd hoped he would take a much bigger step this year than he has. He's on pace for 14 goals and 32 pts. All career highs but I don't see them as a massive step in production, I just see it as a young player getting better at just normal place. His previous career high was 11 goals which isn't much more than a 4th liners in my opinion.

But when he has scored a lot of his points and goals this year, a good chunk of it has been when he was playing with Leon. When he is centering his own line, his line does produce some chances. I know the shot metrics and whatever other advanced stats say his line generates chances and should at some point score but they don't.

I think the Oilers could use a top 6 player but is that player McLeod and then you try to bring in a 3rd line center? I think a good 3rd line centers is pretty important to a team so I am not sure if it's easier to bring in a good 3rd line center or a good complimentary top 6 winger for Leon?

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829961 is a reply to message #829960 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 11:00

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 09:06

Should the focus be a 3rd line center?

I am not here to bash McLeod. I think he's been fine. I'd hoped he would take a much bigger step this year than he has. He's on pace for 14 goals and 32 pts. All career highs but I don't see them as a massive step in production, I just see it as a young player getting better at just normal place. His previous career high was 11 goals which isn't much more than a 4th liners in my opinion.

But when he has scored a lot of his points and goals this year, a good chunk of it has been when he was playing with Leon. When he is centering his own line, his line does produce some chances. I know the shot metrics and whatever other advanced stats say his line generates chances and should at some point score but they don't.

I think the Oilers could use a top 6 player but is that player McLeod and then you try to bring in a 3rd line center? I think a good 3rd line centers is pretty important to a team so I am not sure if it's easier to bring in a good 3rd line center or a good complimentary top 6 winger for Leon?

My wish list for the trade deadline:

1) Second option in goal. Skinner still has stretches that make you question whether he's NHL-calibre at all. He was just dreadful in the playoffs last year, and if that happens again - we're out. We can't rely on Calvin Pickard or Jack Campbell to be the backup plan should Skinner falter.

2) Right shot defenceman. The roster can handle having one of Cody Ceci and Vince Desharnais in it. Both in the same lineup is a distinct weakness, and we can expect that the gameplan will be to expose the Oilers starboard side on the backend if we don't upgrade there.

3) Top-six winger. In an ideal world, Evander Kane never sees another top-six shift with the Oilers. Yes, he has 20 goals, and that's great. But he's so poor at passing or advancing the play that unless he's in shooting position, he is likely to be the death of many drives. His goal share has been dreadful with both McDavid and Draisaitl - he drags down either when on their lines. So if you have an opportunity to bring in a Guentzel, and you can manage it under the cap and you're somehow able to manage the other priorities too? I think it's worth doing.

Our depth has been another weakness this year - if the fourth line combines for less than 25 points on the year, that's really awful production. However, if you add at the top, it trickles down forcing some of those pieces out of the lineup. The reality is that we can't afford to fix everything unless Holland somehow has a miracle stored up. So I wouldn't prioritize a 3C right now unless we strike out on the other fronts.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829964 is a reply to message #829961 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 11:17

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

I still see defense as the biggest issue. One or two more viable NHL defenseman for the long playoff slog. I don't think they're good enough to win a cup as is and I doubt they all stay healthy though the playoffs. Frankly they probably need 2 viable NHL options on the backend at the deadline because no one wants to see Ben Gleason called up for a big game.

Goaltending is what it is I think Skinner is ride or die now. If he gets hurt or his play falls off a cliff because he's been overused plan A is probably a Jack Campbell redemption story.

They could use some forward depth as well, I think the top 6 is fine. Top end scoring hasn't been a problem, but the PK is cause for concern.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829970 is a reply to message #829964 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 12:16

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Just my opinion but I think using asset to bring in a goalie is a waste.

I have 2 seasons in the NHL of Skinner putting up good numbers to tell me he's a starter. Maybe he's not at Hellebuyck level just yet but he's a good goalie.

Back up, I have said it many times. Who's out there that you can get who will cost you very little in assets plus doesn't screw your cap that is legit better. If the Kings fall out and will trade the Oilers Talbot who only makes 1 mill, then sure, I will take that. Other than that, I don't see anyone worth the assets and worth screwing up their cap so a goalie with a better name can sit on the bench and not play a lot.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829972 is a reply to message #829970 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 12:57

CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 12:16

Just my opinion but I think using asset to bring in a goalie is a waste.

Goalies can be had for pretty cheap. Jonathan Quick at half retained cost Vegas a cap minimum prospect and 7th rounder while Adin Hill cost a 4th round pick. I don't think the Oilers could afford either player, but the cost doesn't have to be unreasonable.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829974 is a reply to message #829972 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 13:08

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 12:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 12:16

Just my opinion but I think using asset to bring in a goalie is a waste.

Goalies can be had for pretty cheap. Jonathan Quick at half retained cost Vegas a cap minimum prospect and 7th rounder while Adin Hill cost a 4th round pick. I don't think the Oilers could afford either player, but the cost doesn't have to be unreasonable.

Maybe, depends on the market and how many teams need a goalie and who's out there. I think the following teams need a goalie way more than the Oilers:

- Devils
- Leafs
- Canes
- Kings
- Avs _ Georgiev isn't exactly lighting it up.

What are the Flyers doing? Their starter might go to prison. At the very least he's gone for all of this year and probably next year as he waits for trial.

So who are you getting and what's the cost?

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829976 is a reply to message #829974 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 13:37

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
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Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:08

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 12:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 12:16

Just my opinion but I think using asset to bring in a goalie is a waste.

Goalies can be had for pretty cheap. Jonathan Quick at half retained cost Vegas a cap minimum prospect and 7th rounder while Adin Hill cost a 4th round pick. I don't think the Oilers could afford either player, but the cost doesn't have to be unreasonable.

Maybe, depends on the market and how many teams need a goalie and who's out there. I think the following teams need a goalie way more than the Oilers:

- Devils
- Leafs
- Canes
- Kings
- Avs _ Georgiev isn't exactly lighting it up.

What are the Flyers doing? Their starter might go to prison. At the very least he's gone for all of this year and probably next year as he waits for trial.

So who are you getting and what's the cost?

No idea, but I'd definitely spend a 4th round pick on someone that's NHL ready right now just in case. Especially if they can go to Bako and mentor Olivier Rodrigue.

Eliminating goalies like Driedger, Swayman, DeSmith, Quick and Brossoit because their current teams don't want to be in the Oilers position. I'd look at Kappo Kahoknen, Comrie or Tokarski, Nedeljikovic, Reimer, Schmid, Wolf or Vladar, or Stalock. The hope would be that they never play, but could if absolutely necessary. There are a lot of pending free agent tenders out there on bad teams that could probably be had for a conditional 5th.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829977 is a reply to message #829976 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 14:15

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:37

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:08

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 12:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 12:16

Just my opinion but I think using asset to bring in a goalie is a waste.

Goalies can be had for pretty cheap. Jonathan Quick at half retained cost Vegas a cap minimum prospect and 7th rounder while Adin Hill cost a 4th round pick. I don't think the Oilers could afford either player, but the cost doesn't have to be unreasonable.

Maybe, depends on the market and how many teams need a goalie and who's out there. I think the following teams need a goalie way more than the Oilers:

- Devils
- Leafs
- Canes
- Kings
- Avs _ Georgiev isn't exactly lighting it up.

What are the Flyers doing? Their starter might go to prison. At the very least he's gone for all of this year and probably next year as he waits for trial.

So who are you getting and what's the cost?

No idea, but I'd definitely spend a 4th round pick on someone that's NHL ready right now just in case. Especially if they can go to Bako and mentor Olivier Rodrigue.

Eliminating goalies like Driedger, Swayman, DeSmith, Quick and Brossoit because their current teams don't want to be in the Oilers position. I'd look at Kappo Kahoknen, Comrie or Tokarski, Nedeljikovic, Reimer, Schmid, Wolf or Vladar, or Stalock. The hope would be that they never play, but could if absolutely necessary. There are a lot of pending free agent tenders out there on bad teams that could probably be had for a conditional 5th.

And maybe you can even get the other team to swallow half the cap hit on those guys without any heartburn.

Varlamov out of Long Island might be an option too, especially if the Islanders were willing to keep a little salary. He's still got term, but that wouldn't scare me off. Decent numbers and has been a starter in the past.

Islanders & Devils could very well be sellers. They're 4 points back now, but let's see where they are three weeks from now. In the West, there's several teams in the same boat. If you're Calgary, you're only 4 points out from a wild card spot, but you have to crawl over four teams to get there. Any losing skid at all and you could be done. A lot of these teams may be totally willing to grab an extra draft pick for a netminder.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829971 is a reply to message #829964 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 12:49

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 11:17

I still see defense as the biggest issue. One or two more viable NHL defenseman for the long playoff slog. I don't think they're good enough to win a cup as is and I doubt they all stay healthy though the playoffs. Frankly they probably need 2 viable NHL options on the backend at the deadline because no one wants to see Ben Gleason called up for a big game.

Goaltending is what it is I think Skinner is ride or die now. If he gets hurt or his play falls off a cliff because he's been overused plan A is probably a Jack Campbell redemption story.

They could use some forward depth as well, I think the top 6 is fine. Top end scoring hasn't been a problem, but the PK is cause for concern.

Since we very likely have to beat Vegas again, we should probably look at what lost us the last series against Vegas eh?

Ceci and Nurse, absolute disasters in the last few games of that series. Nurse got to excuse himself from one, but Ceci was consistently a mess and targeted by Vegas as a chaser. Maybe partially blame coaching, but who would think it's a good idea to abandon the net and chase players 30 ft away from the net?

We did the 1 line team deal again of course, as every oilers coach seems to do when the going gets tough. I think our forward depth has been getting this year than last at even strength. If Knob keeps his head straight, I think this forward group can be worked just fine to generate consistent offense.

Goaltending huge issue last playoffs. Skinner's confidence was 0, and the coaches trust in Campbell was 0. So, we just got to see Skinner looking defeated for almost the entire Vegas series. No 2nd efforts on saves, just pray stuff hits him. Ceci and Nurse chasing guys and abandoning the net gave Vegas lots of nice chances to just casually pot a goal into an open net while Skinner looked glued to the ice.

I have no faith in Holland pulled off a goalie deal at the deadline. That work needed to be done last summer. He was too busy obsessing over orange beard hairs. Fixing our RHD depth however, should be doable. That's all I'd be looking for right now, especially since we are stuck up against the cap, yet again. Upgrade the D, we should have a shot. A lot rides on Skinner, but when we have a 2-3 line attack going, we can push the pace enough to give ourselves a shot every night. Just need to keep the huge brain farts in our end down, which a D upgrade could help a lot.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829973 is a reply to message #829971 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

Mike
Messages: 1067
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829975 is a reply to message #829973 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829978 is a reply to message #829975 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829979 is a reply to message #829978 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 14:34

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

Did you see Bjugstad in his last game though? 2 goals against a top team.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829982 is a reply to message #829979 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 14:42

Adam
Messages: 6824
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6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:34

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

Did you see Bjugstad in his last game though? 2 goals against a top team.

Dude has been on fire all season. 29 points in 55 games, compared to 23 in 59 last year when the Oilers dealt for him.

What could go wrong?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829983 is a reply to message #829978 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 14:46

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

I didn't call him tiny but 180 lbs is hardly considered a big guy.

When one of the 200lbs Vegas dmen hit an 180lbs body, the 180 lbs guy will feel it more than the 200 lb guy. Most guys in the NHL at this point in the season isn't 100% healthy but I don't think trading for a guy who you already know is quite banged up, to the point he has to miss a month of games when his team is trying to squeak into the playoffs is a good idea.

You can disagree if you want, but trading for a guy that's hurt is a bigger risk than other players. If you trade for Guentzel, you are probably spending the majority of your tradeable assets and using up most of, if not all of the cap space you have, even if you get them to retain 50% on a guy who it's probably more likely he gets hurt again vs other players. I would be targeting other players.

My target would be Tarasenko. He's on a worse team. The GM probably isn't feeling as much pressure to get a haul as the Pens GM is with Crosby who apparently is very close with Guentzel. Taraenko makes 1 mill less so the cap hit is less and every dollar counts. He has a cup so you get that experience. If you like him, you probably have a better chance at resigning him than Guentzel who's American vs Tarasenko already signed with a Canadian team. He's played in the West pretty much his whole career so he knows how the hockey in the playoffs is. Plus he's 2 inches taller and 45 lbs heavier which in the West, which in the playoffs generally plays a more nastier style of hockey. I would think being 45 lbs heavier, his body is better equipped to handled the punishment than a 180 lb guy.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829987 is a reply to message #829983 ]	Tue, 20 February 2024 22:28

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:46

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

I didn't call him tiny but 180 lbs is hardly considered a big guy.

When one of the 200lbs Vegas dmen hit an 180lbs body, the 180 lbs guy will feel it more than the 200 lb guy. Most guys in the NHL at this point in the season isn't 100% healthy but I don't think trading for a guy who you already know is quite banged up, to the point he has to miss a month of games when his team is trying to squeak into the playoffs is a good idea.

You can disagree if you want, but trading for a guy that's hurt is a bigger risk than other players. If you trade for Guentzel, you are probably spending the majority of your tradeable assets and using up most of, if not all of the cap space you have, even if you get them to retain 50% on a guy who it's probably more likely he gets hurt again vs other players. I would be targeting other players.

My target would be Tarasenko. He's on a worse team. The GM probably isn't feeling as much pressure to get a haul as the Pens GM is with Crosby who apparently is very close with Guentzel. Taraenko makes 1 mill less so the cap hit is less and every dollar counts. He has a cup so you get that experience. If you like him, you probably have a better chance at resigning him than Guentzel who's American vs Tarasenko already signed with a Canadian team. He's played in the West pretty much his whole career so he knows how the hockey in the playoffs is. Plus he's 2 inches taller and 45 lbs heavier which in the West, which in the playoffs generally plays a more nastier style of hockey. I would think being 45 lbs heavier, his body is better equipped to handled the punishment than a 180 lb guy.

I think the size stuff comes from listening to too much Bob Stauffer. It's just really not that meaningful. There are bigger guys who are bandaids, and smaller guys who do just fine. Guentzel has missed very few games, under 10 in the last 4 years before this.

The nationality of players obsession sounds a lot like Oilers media too who are constantly generalizing about players from different countries and then worrying about whether they'll like Canada or not. The truth is, most of them are only here to play hockey. If they're winning, they'll love it, other than the crappy sports media guys asking idiotic questions every day.

Tarasenko would be another fine target as a top-6 player. But neither Guentzel's American-ness nor his size should scare anyone off. And if you can get an assessment on his health and comfort that he's back before the playoffs (or right at the playoffs even if you don't have cap room), then health shouldn't be a big factor either.

Cap hit and acquisition cost are the only real factors I'd be concerned about. And a big part of me would be hoping that several of the mediocre GMs in the league were too concerned about his health, his size and his nationality to bother putting in a proposal.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829989 is a reply to message #829987 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 06:26

Mike
Messages: 1067
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Apparently the Pens have allowed teams to discuss extension with Guentzel. That could be interesting for some teams, but not sure he's someone we could fit in long term with the mess we already have. Guessing he'll be looking for at least $8M per for 5-6 years. He'll be 30 by the time puck drops on the 24-25 season.

But for this year - let's say a team trades for him while he is injured, is he allowed to stay "injured" until game 1 of the playoffs, and if so, do you even need cap space for him?

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829991 is a reply to message #829987 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 08:43

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 22:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:46

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

I didn't call him tiny but 180 lbs is hardly considered a big guy.

When one of the 200lbs Vegas dmen hit an 180lbs body, the 180 lbs guy will feel it more than the 200 lb guy. Most guys in the NHL at this point in the season isn't 100% healthy but I don't think trading for a guy who you already know is quite banged up, to the point he has to miss a month of games when his team is trying to squeak into the playoffs is a good idea.

You can disagree if you want, but trading for a guy that's hurt is a bigger risk than other players. If you trade for Guentzel, you are probably spending the majority of your tradeable assets and using up most of, if not all of the cap space you have, even if you get them to retain 50% on a guy who it's probably more likely he gets hurt again vs other players. I would be targeting other players.

My target would be Tarasenko. He's on a worse team. The GM probably isn't feeling as much pressure to get a haul as the Pens GM is with Crosby who apparently is very close with Guentzel. Taraenko makes 1 mill less so the cap hit is less and every dollar counts. He has a cup so you get that experience. If you like him, you probably have a better chance at resigning him than Guentzel who's American vs Tarasenko already signed with a Canadian team. He's played in the West pretty much his whole career so he knows how the hockey in the playoffs is. Plus he's 2 inches taller and 45 lbs heavier which in the West, which in the playoffs generally plays a more nastier style of hockey. I would think being 45 lbs heavier, his body is better equipped to handled the punishment than a 180 lb guy.

I think the size stuff comes from listening to too much Bob Stauffer. It's just really not that meaningful. There are bigger guys who are bandaids, and smaller guys who do just fine. Guentzel has missed very few games, under 10 in the last 4 years before this.

The nationality of players obsession sounds a lot like Oilers media too who are constantly generalizing about players from different countries and then worrying about whether they'll like Canada or not. The truth is, most of them are only here to play hockey. If they're winning, they'll love it, other than the crappy sports media guys asking idiotic questions every day.

Tarasenko would be another fine target as a top-6 player. But neither Guentzel's American-ness nor his size should scare anyone off. And if you can get an assessment on his health and comfort that he's back before the playoffs (or right at the playoffs even if you don't have cap room), then health shouldn't be a big factor either.

Cap hit and acquisition cost are the only real factors I'd be concerned about. And a big part of me would be hoping that several of the mediocre GMs in the league were too concerned about his health, his size and his nationality to bother putting in a proposal.

Look man, if you want me to not get bent out of shape over your comments, then please stop insulting me. You have made similar comments to me before and I find them offensive. I'm being civil here, I'm not coming at you so you don't need to take shots at me.

Yes I listen to sports talk radio. I listen to it at work. I keep it in the background. I don't have the time to scour the internet every day reading every article every hockey person writes. So sports talk radio is an easy way for me to hear the information and opinions of many of the same people who write articles. That's why I listen to it. I also listen to Stauffer because he brings in good guests generally and he's the mouth piece of the team. So I like hearing what the team is thinking. That being said, while I sometimes agree with what the Stauffers of the world say, I don't always agree with them nor do I just automatically adopt what they as as my own opinion. I am my own man, I have my own opinions. So I do find it offensive you insinuating that I am unable to form my own opinions and just some idiot regurgitating what the Stauffer's say.

I do engineering for a living, I have taken a lot of math courses and a lot of science and physics courses. So my comment about Guentzel has nothing to do with what Bob thinks. It's simple basic science. Force = MASS x acceleration. If you don't believe me, look it up. So a heavier object is going to exert more force than a lighter object. So when a 200 lbs dman skates and hits a 180 lbs forward, the 200lber is going to have more force than the 180lber. That's science.

So in the case of Guentzel, he has an upper body injury that is keeping him out for 4 weeks. I don't know what it is, nor did I see what happened but generally when someone is out with an upper body injury for a month, it's either a shoulder problem, head or maybe ribs. Regardless, none of them are good. So there is a risk involved in trading for a guy who probably has one of those injuries which after a month, in all likelihood, will maybe be healed enough to play but probably not fully because that's how they role in the NHL. So there is a risk in him reinjuring himself because he probably won't be 100% healthy. On top of that, because he is 180 lbs, he's not as thick and able to absorb as much physical punishment as heavier guys. So when someone tries to hit him, because he doesn't have the same amount of body mass as say Hyman who's 206, he won't able to absorb the hit as easily as Hyman and the risk of reinjuring himself is going to be higher.

So again, my comment has nothing to do with listening to Bob and not being able to formulate my own opinion without his help, it's simple science. Heavier objects in most cases will do better with contact scenario's than lighter ones.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829994 is a reply to message #829991 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 11:02

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 08:43

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 22:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:46

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

I didn't call him tiny but 180 lbs is hardly considered a big guy.

When one of the 200lbs Vegas dmen hit an 180lbs body, the 180 lbs guy will feel it more than the 200 lb guy. Most guys in the NHL at this point in the season isn't 100% healthy but I don't think trading for a guy who you already know is quite banged up, to the point he has to miss a month of games when his team is trying to squeak into the playoffs is a good idea.

You can disagree if you want, but trading for a guy that's hurt is a bigger risk than other players. If you trade for Guentzel, you are probably spending the majority of your tradeable assets and using up most of, if not all of the cap space you have, even if you get them to retain 50% on a guy who it's probably more likely he gets hurt again vs other players. I would be targeting other players.

My target would be Tarasenko. He's on a worse team. The GM probably isn't feeling as much pressure to get a haul as the Pens GM is with Crosby who apparently is very close with Guentzel. Taraenko makes 1 mill less so the cap hit is less and every dollar counts. He has a cup so you get that experience. If you like him, you probably have a better chance at resigning him than Guentzel who's American vs Tarasenko already signed with a Canadian team. He's played in the West pretty much his whole career so he knows how the hockey in the playoffs is. Plus he's 2 inches taller and 45 lbs heavier which in the West, which in the playoffs generally plays a more nastier style of hockey. I would think being 45 lbs heavier, his body is better equipped to handled the punishment than a 180 lb guy.

I think the size stuff comes from listening to too much Bob Stauffer. It's just really not that meaningful. There are bigger guys who are bandaids, and smaller guys who do just fine. Guentzel has missed very few games, under 10 in the last 4 years before this.

The nationality of players obsession sounds a lot like Oilers media too who are constantly generalizing about players from different countries and then worrying about whether they'll like Canada or not. The truth is, most of them are only here to play hockey. If they're winning, they'll love it, other than the crappy sports media guys asking idiotic questions every day.

Tarasenko would be another fine target as a top-6 player. But neither Guentzel's American-ness nor his size should scare anyone off. And if you can get an assessment on his health and comfort that he's back before the playoffs (or right at the playoffs even if you don't have cap room), then health shouldn't be a big factor either.

Cap hit and acquisition cost are the only real factors I'd be concerned about. And a big part of me would be hoping that several of the mediocre GMs in the league were too concerned about his health, his size and his nationality to bother putting in a proposal.

Look man, if you want me to not get bent out of shape over your comments, then please stop insulting me. You have made similar comments to me before and I find them offensive. I'm being civil here, I'm not coming at you so you don't need to take shots at me.

Yes I listen to sports talk radio. I listen to it at work. I keep it in the background. I don't have the time to scour the internet every day reading every article every hockey person writes. So sports talk radio is an easy way for me to hear the information and opinions of many of the same people who write articles. That's why I listen to it. I also listen to Stauffer because he brings in good guests generally and he's the mouth piece of the team. So I like hearing what the team is thinking. That being said, while I sometimes agree with what the Stauffers of the world say, I don't always agree with them nor do I just automatically adopt what they as as my own opinion. I am my own man, I have my own opinions. So I do find it offensive you insinuating that I am unable to form my own opinions and just some idiot regurgitating what the Stauffer's say.

I do engineering for a living, I have taken a lot of math courses and a lot of science and physics courses. So my comment about Guentzel has nothing to do with what Bob thinks. It's simple basic science. Force = MASS x acceleration. If you don't believe me, look it up. So a heavier object is going to exert more force than a lighter object. So when a 200 lbs dman skates and hits a 180 lbs forward, the 200lber is going to have more force than the 180lber. That's science.

So in the case of Guentzel, he has an upper body injury that is keeping him out for 4 weeks. I don't know what it is, nor did I see what happened but generally when someone is out with an upper body injury for a month, it's either a shoulder problem, head or maybe ribs. Regardless, none of them are good. So there is a risk involved in trading for a guy who probably has one of those injuries which after a month, in all likelihood, will maybe be healed enough to play but probably not fully because that's how they role in the NHL. So there is a risk in him reinjuring himself because he probably won't be 100% healthy. On top of that, because he is 180 lbs, he's not as thick and able to absorb as much physical punishment as heavier guys. So when someone tries to hit him, because he doesn't have the same amount of body mass as say Hyman who's 206, he won't able to absorb the hit as easily as Hyman and the risk of reinjuring himself is going to be higher.

So again, my comment has nothing to do with listening to Bob and not being able to formulate my own opinion without his help, it's simple science. Heavier objects in most cases will do better with contact scenario's than lighter ones.

I seem to recall us getting owned by a 5'9" guy that has been hurt a bunch of times in his career. a guy that almost had his career end with disc issues in his neck, and a guy that supposedly has constant chronic back pain. Also had a dman that seems to miss half of every season.

Hyman and Kane were basically cripples most of last playoffs and helped get us stuck with a 1 line team again because our wingers were useless.

All that matters is if guys can perform when the time comes. You do yourself favors and help your odds IMO if you get guys that have shown they can. Guentzel 100% has shown he can perform in the playoffs against teams big and small. He's one of those smart players that has a nose for open ice and can finish.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829995 is a reply to message #829994 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 11:35

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 11:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 08:43

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 22:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:46

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

I didn't call him tiny but 180 lbs is hardly considered a big guy.

When one of the 200lbs Vegas dmen hit an 180lbs body, the 180 lbs guy will feel it more than the 200 lb guy. Most guys in the NHL at this point in the season isn't 100% healthy but I don't think trading for a guy who you already know is quite banged up, to the point he has to miss a month of games when his team is trying to squeak into the playoffs is a good idea.

You can disagree if you want, but trading for a guy that's hurt is a bigger risk than other players. If you trade for Guentzel, you are probably spending the majority of your tradeable assets and using up most of, if not all of the cap space you have, even if you get them to retain 50% on a guy who it's probably more likely he gets hurt again vs other players. I would be targeting other players.

My target would be Tarasenko. He's on a worse team. The GM probably isn't feeling as much pressure to get a haul as the Pens GM is with Crosby who apparently is very close with Guentzel. Taraenko makes 1 mill less so the cap hit is less and every dollar counts. He has a cup so you get that experience. If you like him, you probably have a better chance at resigning him than Guentzel who's American vs Tarasenko already signed with a Canadian team. He's played in the West pretty much his whole career so he knows how the hockey in the playoffs is. Plus he's 2 inches taller and 45 lbs heavier which in the West, which in the playoffs generally plays a more nastier style of hockey. I would think being 45 lbs heavier, his body is better equipped to handled the punishment than a 180 lb guy.

I think the size stuff comes from listening to too much Bob Stauffer. It's just really not that meaningful. There are bigger guys who are bandaids, and smaller guys who do just fine. Guentzel has missed very few games, under 10 in the last 4 years before this.

The nationality of players obsession sounds a lot like Oilers media too who are constantly generalizing about players from different countries and then worrying about whether they'll like Canada or not. The truth is, most of them are only here to play hockey. If they're winning, they'll love it, other than the crappy sports media guys asking idiotic questions every day.

Tarasenko would be another fine target as a top-6 player. But neither Guentzel's American-ness nor his size should scare anyone off. And if you can get an assessment on his health and comfort that he's back before the playoffs (or right at the playoffs even if you don't have cap room), then health shouldn't be a big factor either.

Cap hit and acquisition cost are the only real factors I'd be concerned about. And a big part of me would be hoping that several of the mediocre GMs in the league were too concerned about his health, his size and his nationality to bother putting in a proposal.

Look man, if you want me to not get bent out of shape over your comments, then please stop insulting me. You have made similar comments to me before and I find them offensive. I'm being civil here, I'm not coming at you so you don't need to take shots at me.

Yes I listen to sports talk radio. I listen to it at work. I keep it in the background. I don't have the time to scour the internet every day reading every article every hockey person writes. So sports talk radio is an easy way for me to hear the information and opinions of many of the same people who write articles. That's why I listen to it. I also listen to Stauffer because he brings in good guests generally and he's the mouth piece of the team. So I like hearing what the team is thinking. That being said, while I sometimes agree with what the Stauffers of the world say, I don't always agree with them nor do I just automatically adopt what they as as my own opinion. I am my own man, I have my own opinions. So I do find it offensive you insinuating that I am unable to form my own opinions and just some idiot regurgitating what the Stauffer's say.

I do engineering for a living, I have taken a lot of math courses and a lot of science and physics courses. So my comment about Guentzel has nothing to do with what Bob thinks. It's simple basic science. Force = MASS x acceleration. If you don't believe me, look it up. So a heavier object is going to exert more force than a lighter object. So when a 200 lbs dman skates and hits a 180 lbs forward, the 200lber is going to have more force than the 180lber. That's science.

So in the case of Guentzel, he has an upper body injury that is keeping him out for 4 weeks. I don't know what it is, nor did I see what happened but generally when someone is out with an upper body injury for a month, it's either a shoulder problem, head or maybe ribs. Regardless, none of them are good. So there is a risk involved in trading for a guy who probably has one of those injuries which after a month, in all likelihood, will maybe be healed enough to play but probably not fully because that's how they role in the NHL. So there is a risk in him reinjuring himself because he probably won't be 100% healthy. On top of that, because he is 180 lbs, he's not as thick and able to absorb as much physical punishment as heavier guys. So when someone tries to hit him, because he doesn't have the same amount of body mass as say Hyman who's 206, he won't able to absorb the hit as easily as Hyman and the risk of reinjuring himself is going to be higher.

So again, my comment has nothing to do with listening to Bob and not being able to formulate my own opinion without his help, it's simple science. Heavier objects in most cases will do better with contact scenario's than lighter ones.

I seem to recall us getting owned by a 5'9" guy that has been hurt a bunch of times in his career. a guy that almost had his career end with disc issues in his neck, and a guy that supposedly has constant chronic back pain. Also had a dman that seems to miss half of every season.

Hyman and Kane were basically cripples most of last playoffs and helped get us stuck with a 1 line team again because our wingers were useless.

All that matters is if guys can perform when the time comes. You do yourself favors and help your odds IMO if you get guys that have shown they can. Guentzel 100% has shown he can perform in the playoffs against teams big and small. He's one of those smart players that has a nose for open ice and can finish.

I am not against Guentzel if he's healthy. But none of what I said is incorrect like Adam said. If you are 180 lbs vs 200, your body typically isn't going to be able to take physical pounding as well. That's true.

So I am simply saying it's a risk to trade for him because he's already got an upper body injury severe enough he is missing a month when his team badly needs. That's it. Doesn't mean I am just another backward thinking guy who thinks smaller guys can't play.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829996 is a reply to message #829995 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 11:50

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 11:35

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 11:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 08:43

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 22:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:46

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 14:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:16

Mike wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 13:01

If by some miracle they happen to get Guentzel (no idea how they could fit him in), maybe the Pens could add in Nedeljkovic. Impending UFA, $1.5M cap hit, and seem to be putting up pretty good numbers this year (2.54GAA, .919).

With the Flames being only 3 points out of the wild card I don't know if they'll be selling at all, but I can't think of a better Ceci upgrade than Tanev.

I wouldn't touch Guentzel. He got hurt I think last week with an upper body injury and was deemed out for 4 weeks. So you'd be trading for a guy who as soon as you get him is in the IR for probably a week, maybe more. Plus once the 4 weeks is up, how healthy is he really? We all know when these guys go down, they come back not healthy. He's not a very big guy so he's not 100%, it probably wouldn't take much to reinjure something.

Guentzel is hardly tiny at 5'11, 180 lbs, and I don't trade for him for what he can do the next 4 or 6 weeks. I'm trading for him for what he can do for the team in the post-season.

He's only 29 and he's missed almost no time the last 3.5 years up until this injury so it's not like you're talking about someone who's constantly on the IR or soon bound for a care facility.

I'd actually hope that some other GMs might be scared off by this and maybe you can get him slightly cheaper. You're talking about a guy who's been right around a point per game player for the last 6 years. That's a lot more impactful than trying to get back Nick Bjugstad again...

I didn't call him tiny but 180 lbs is hardly considered a big guy.

When one of the 200lbs Vegas dmen hit an 180lbs body, the 180 lbs guy will feel it more than the 200 lb guy. Most guys in the NHL at this point in the season isn't 100% healthy but I don't think trading for a guy who you already know is quite banged up, to the point he has to miss a month of games when his team is trying to squeak into the playoffs is a good idea.

You can disagree if you want, but trading for a guy that's hurt is a bigger risk than other players. If you trade for Guentzel, you are probably spending the majority of your tradeable assets and using up most of, if not all of the cap space you have, even if you get them to retain 50% on a guy who it's probably more likely he gets hurt again vs other players. I would be targeting other players.

My target would be Tarasenko. He's on a worse team. The GM probably isn't feeling as much pressure to get a haul as the Pens GM is with Crosby who apparently is very close with Guentzel. Taraenko makes 1 mill less so the cap hit is less and every dollar counts. He has a cup so you get that experience. If you like him, you probably have a better chance at resigning him than Guentzel who's American vs Tarasenko already signed with a Canadian team. He's played in the West pretty much his whole career so he knows how the hockey in the playoffs is. Plus he's 2 inches taller and 45 lbs heavier which in the West, which in the playoffs generally plays a more nastier style of hockey. I would think being 45 lbs heavier, his body is better equipped to handled the punishment than a 180 lb guy.

I think the size stuff comes from listening to too much Bob Stauffer. It's just really not that meaningful. There are bigger guys who are bandaids, and smaller guys who do just fine. Guentzel has missed very few games, under 10 in the last 4 years before this.

The nationality of players obsession sounds a lot like Oilers media too who are constantly generalizing about players from different countries and then worrying about whether they'll like Canada or not. The truth is, most of them are only here to play hockey. If they're winning, they'll love it, other than the crappy sports media guys asking idiotic questions every day.

Tarasenko would be another fine target as a top-6 player. But neither Guentzel's American-ness nor his size should scare anyone off. And if you can get an assessment on his health and comfort that he's back before the playoffs (or right at the playoffs even if you don't have cap room), then health shouldn't be a big factor either.

Cap hit and acquisition cost are the only real factors I'd be concerned about. And a big part of me would be hoping that several of the mediocre GMs in the league were too concerned about his health, his size and his nationality to bother putting in a proposal.

Look man, if you want me to not get bent out of shape over your comments, then please stop insulting me. You have made similar comments to me before and I find them offensive. I'm being civil here, I'm not coming at you so you don't need to take shots at me.

Yes I listen to sports talk radio. I listen to it at work. I keep it in the background. I don't have the time to scour the internet every day reading every article every hockey person writes. So sports talk radio is an easy way for me to hear the information and opinions of many of the same people who write articles. That's why I listen to it. I also listen to Stauffer because he brings in good guests generally and he's the mouth piece of the team. So I like hearing what the team is thinking. That being said, while I sometimes agree with what the Stauffers of the world say, I don't always agree with them nor do I just automatically adopt what they as as my own opinion. I am my own man, I have my own opinions. So I do find it offensive you insinuating that I am unable to form my own opinions and just some idiot regurgitating what the Stauffer's say.

I do engineering for a living, I have taken a lot of math courses and a lot of science and physics courses. So my comment about Guentzel has nothing to do with what Bob thinks. It's simple basic science. Force = MASS x acceleration. If you don't believe me, look it up. So a heavier object is going to exert more force than a lighter object. So when a 200 lbs dman skates and hits a 180 lbs forward, the 200lber is going to have more force than the 180lber. That's science.

So in the case of Guentzel, he has an upper body injury that is keeping him out for 4 weeks. I don't know what it is, nor did I see what happened but generally when someone is out with an upper body injury for a month, it's either a shoulder problem, head or maybe ribs. Regardless, none of them are good. So there is a risk involved in trading for a guy who probably has one of those injuries which after a month, in all likelihood, will maybe be healed enough to play but probably not fully because that's how they role in the NHL. So there is a risk in him reinjuring himself because he probably won't be 100% healthy. On top of that, because he is 180 lbs, he's not as thick and able to absorb as much physical punishment as heavier guys. So when someone tries to hit him, because he doesn't have the same amount of body mass as say Hyman who's 206, he won't able to absorb the hit as easily as Hyman and the risk of reinjuring himself is going to be higher.

So again, my comment has nothing to do with listening to Bob and not being able to formulate my own opinion without his help, it's simple science. Heavier objects in most cases will do better with contact scenario's than lighter ones.

I seem to recall us getting owned by a 5'9" guy that has been hurt a bunch of times in his career. a guy that almost had his career end with disc issues in his neck, and a guy that supposedly has constant chronic back pain. Also had a dman that seems to miss half of every season.

Hyman and Kane were basically cripples most of last playoffs and helped get us stuck with a 1 line team again because our wingers were useless.

All that matters is if guys can perform when the time comes. You do yourself favors and help your odds IMO if you get guys that have shown they can. Guentzel 100% has shown he can perform in the playoffs against teams big and small. He's one of those smart players that has a nose for open ice and can finish.

I am not against Guentzel if he's healthy. But none of what I said is incorrect like Adam said. If you are 180 lbs vs 200, your body typically isn't going to be able to take physical pounding as well. That's true.

So I am simply saying it's a risk to trade for him because he's already got an upper body injury severe enough he is missing a month when his team badly needs. That's it. Doesn't mean I am just another backward thinking guy who thinks smaller guys can't play.

I Would say everyone is different. Some bigger guys have low pain tolerance, weaker joints less core strength, etc... and can't take a hit nearly as good as some smaller guys. Some big guys experience concussions and whiplash far more easily. Lots of smaller guys can be stronger and denser, some big guys take their height for granted. And of course some small guys are far more heads up and can avoid a lot more than a big guy. It's all over the map.

Does suck he got hurt. Would have been awesome to trade for him before he was on IR, then we could have cap scammed and started him for game 1 :) Oh, who am I kidding, Holland would never.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #829997 is a reply to message #829983 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 11:54

Perkele
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2006
Location: St. Catharines

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I was curious to see if it was actually the case that smaller (lighter) players were more likely to be injured. I am far from an expert in this and honestly, I spent a pretty small amount of time reading about this but I did find some interesting info.

Apparently, larger players (in terms of BMI) are more likely to be injured than their smaller counterparts. The brief amount of info I found suggests that because larger players hit with more force that increases the likelihood that they will become injured (seems to make sense to me) and since many collisions are not with another player but with the boards, ice, net etc... they most likely outcome is that the larger the player is the more likely they are to be injured.

Here are a couple of articles I found on the subject and a quick summary of the findings of the one study. I have bolded the part about body mass index as the positional information is not relevant to this discussion.

https://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&am p;context=honors

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4272692/#:~:tex t=The%20odds%20of%20injury%20in,%3C25%20kg%2Fm2.

"The odds of injury in a forward was 1.9 times (95% CI, 1.1-3.4) that of a defenseman and 3 times (95% CI, 1.2-7.7) that of a goalie. The odds of injury if the player’s body mass index (BMI) was ≥25 kg/m2 was 2.1 times (95% CI, 1.1-3.8) that of a player with a BMI <25 kg/m2."

#teamBath(i)robe

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830001 is a reply to message #829997 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 13:08

NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 892
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

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Probably not relevant, but the hardest hits I took in ~20 years of rugby were ALWAYS from the smaller guys. Yeah, when the big guys would hit you it would often look like a big hit, but I'd just pop back up, or spin off the hit. When the smaller guys got a good one on me though? Charlie Horse central. Those ones hurt.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830002 is a reply to message #830001 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 15:11

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

This wasn't meant to be me trying to tell people smaller guys can't play. That's completely not the case at all. I am simply raising the flag that trading for a guy who is already hurt with upper body issues and who's on the slighter side, is a big risk. It's going to take assets and cap space to bring him in and the last thing they need is to spend all that and have him get hurt again. There is always a risk any player can get hurt at anytime but with Guentzel it's higher because you know he's already banged up before you even get him.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830003 is a reply to message #830002 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 15:23

smyth260
Messages: 947
Registered: November 2007

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He won’t be banged up because he’s had 4 weeks to heal everything. Players who are still playing could in fact be banged up though.

As long as the Oilers know his health ahead of a trade, it shouldn’t be anything to be concerned about.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830004 is a reply to message #830003 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 15:27

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:23

He won’t be banged up because he’s had 4 weeks to heal everything. Players who are still playing could in fact be banged up though.

As long as the Oilers know his health ahead of a trade, it shouldn’t be anything to be concerned about.

I would have to know the injury. I'm not interested in him if he has a shoulder injury that in 4 weeks is healed enough to play but is something that needs a surgery in the offseason to completely fix. They did that with Klef for years. Nor would I want to trade for him if it's a concussion. That could come back any time and I am not sure 4 weeks is enough.

I think about Yamo. He got a concussion/whiplash in the playoffs 21-22 and he wasn't right for the majority of all last year.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830005 is a reply to message #830004 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 15:42

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:27

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:23

He won’t be banged up because he’s had 4 weeks to heal everything. Players who are still playing could in fact be banged up though.

As long as the Oilers know his health ahead of a trade, it shouldn’t be anything to be concerned about.

I would have to know the injury. I'm not interested in him if he has a shoulder injury that in 4 weeks is healed enough to play but is something that needs a surgery in the offseason to completely fix. They did that with Klef for years. Nor would I want to trade for him if it's a concussion. That could come back any time and I am not sure 4 weeks is enough.

I think about Yamo. He got a concussion/whiplash in the playoffs 21-22 and he wasn't right for the majority of all last year.

Good news! Teams aren't trading in a bubble, and it's fair for the GM to ask for documentation around a player's health before completing a trade. And if they're offering you the opportunity to talk to him about contract, well, then it probably gives a chance to ask him how he's feeling too...maybe what his doc is saying, etc.

I do like Mike's thought - trade for him, keep him on IR, minimize his cap hit so that we have room to maybe make another significant move too.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830007 is a reply to message #830005 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 15:55

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:27

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:23

He won’t be banged up because he’s had 4 weeks to heal everything. Players who are still playing could in fact be banged up though.

As long as the Oilers know his health ahead of a trade, it shouldn’t be anything to be concerned about.

I would have to know the injury. I'm not interested in him if he has a shoulder injury that in 4 weeks is healed enough to play but is something that needs a surgery in the offseason to completely fix. They did that with Klef for years. Nor would I want to trade for him if it's a concussion. That could come back any time and I am not sure 4 weeks is enough.

I think about Yamo. He got a concussion/whiplash in the playoffs 21-22 and he wasn't right for the majority of all last year.

Good news! Teams aren't trading in a bubble, and it's fair for the GM to ask for documentation around a player's health before completing a trade. And if they're offering you the opportunity to talk to him about contract, well, then it probably gives a chance to ask him how he's feeling too...maybe what his doc is saying, etc.

I do like Mike's thought - trade for him, keep him on IR, minimize his cap hit so that we have room to maybe make another significant move too.

I'd feel better about it if they did a Vegas and LTIR him to make sure he's completely healed then he's ready for playoffs. I just have this bad feeling if they traded for him, they'd wait the whatever time he's out to play. He plays a couple of games and then whatever he was dealing with, flares up and they got nothing to show for what they gave up. As soon as they said upper body, I immediately thought he hurt his shoulder or has a concussion. The Pens were and I guess technically still in a wild card hunt and to have to miss 4 weeks means it's pretty bad.

[Updated on: Wed, 21 February 2024 15:58]

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830015 is a reply to message #830007 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 16:54

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:55

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:42

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:27

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 15:23

He won’t be banged up because he’s had 4 weeks to heal everything. Players who are still playing could in fact be banged up though.

As long as the Oilers know his health ahead of a trade, it shouldn’t be anything to be concerned about.

I would have to know the injury. I'm not interested in him if he has a shoulder injury that in 4 weeks is healed enough to play but is something that needs a surgery in the offseason to completely fix. They did that with Klef for years. Nor would I want to trade for him if it's a concussion. That could come back any time and I am not sure 4 weeks is enough.

I think about Yamo. He got a concussion/whiplash in the playoffs 21-22 and he wasn't right for the majority of all last year.

Good news! Teams aren't trading in a bubble, and it's fair for the GM to ask for documentation around a player's health before completing a trade. And if they're offering you the opportunity to talk to him about contract, well, then it probably gives a chance to ask him how he's feeling too...maybe what his doc is saying, etc.

I do like Mike's thought - trade for him, keep him on IR, minimize his cap hit so that we have room to maybe make another significant move too.

I'd feel better about it if they did a Vegas and LTIR him to make sure he's completely healed then he's ready for playoffs. I just have this bad feeling if they traded for him, they'd wait the whatever time he's out to play. He plays a couple of games and then whatever he was dealing with, flares up and they got nothing to show for what they gave up. As soon as they said upper body, I immediately thought he hurt his shoulder or has a concussion. The Pens were and I guess technically still in a wild card hunt and to have to miss 4 weeks means it's pretty bad.

There's no player without risk of injury. Remember Mike Green? We got a game and a half out of him before he was injured and done, and he had a clean bill of health at the time of the trade. Oh, and he was 6'1, 210 lbs.

If he's not playing, then he's not getting hit and he's healing up. We have a lot of time before the playoffs still. Yes, it is important to get information on the injury to ensure that it's something that doesn't actually have an open-ended timeline. But if it's a sprain where the docs agree that he's got a predictable recovery period, then I think there's not substantially more risk with Guentzel than with anyone else we could acquire.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830019 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Adam
Messages: 6824
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
~~#FireLowe~~ #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830021 is a reply to message #830019 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 17:46

inverno76
Messages: 2120
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

Absolutely brutal.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830036 is a reply to message #830021 ]	Wed, 21 February 2024 22:03

Kr55
Messages: 9611
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

Absolutely brutal.

And hilarious

Is a 100M starting lineup for Vegas in game 1 possible?

[Updated on: Wed, 21 February 2024 22:21]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830077 is a reply to message #830036 ]	Thu, 22 February 2024 19:37

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3908
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 21:03

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

Absolutely brutal.

And hilarious

Is a 100M starting lineup for Vegas in game 1 possible?

Totally possible..

Update on Stone.. they say he has a lacerated spleen.. he'll be going on LTIR asap... $10M in cap space right there.. that's a guaranteed Game #1 re-activation scenario..

This type of cap circumvention can't be controlled.. you'll never find a doctor who'll state a patient is "absolutely healthy enough" to play game #82 of the NHL schedule.. a player could never be forced to play.. however.. if the player wants to play game #1 of the playoffs.. .. well .. it becomes the players personal decision and can't be stopped from playing.

I expect Eichel to stay put on LTIR . legit or not.. so that's $20M total cap space Vegas can add at the deadline..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830084 is a reply to message #830077 ]	Fri, 23 February 2024 05:32

NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 892
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 22 February 2024 22:37

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 21:03

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

Absolutely brutal.

And hilarious

Is a 100M starting lineup for Vegas in game 1 possible?

Totally possible..

Update on Stone.. they say he has a lacerated spleen.. he'll be going on LTIR asap... $10M in cap space right there.. that's a guaranteed Game #1 re-activation scenario..

This type of cap circumvention can't be controlled.. you'll never find a doctor who'll state a patient is "absolutely healthy enough" to play game #82 of the NHL schedule.. a player could never be forced to play.. however.. if the player wants to play game #1 of the playoffs.. .. well .. it becomes the players personal decision and can't be stopped from playing.

I expect Eichel to stay put on LTIR . legit or not.. so that's $20M total cap space Vegas can add at the deadline..

It seems like such an easy loophole to close too. Your playoff roster must be under the salary cap, same as your regular season roster. What's so hard about that? I've never understood why that rule all of a sudden gets thrown out the window just because it's the playoffs.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830088 is a reply to message #830084 ]	Fri, 23 February 2024 08:41

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7641
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 05:32

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 22 February 2024 22:37

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 21:03

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

Absolutely brutal.

And hilarious

Is a 100M starting lineup for Vegas in game 1 possible?

Totally possible..

Update on Stone.. they say he has a lacerated spleen.. he'll be going on LTIR asap... $10M in cap space right there.. that's a guaranteed Game #1 re-activation scenario..

This type of cap circumvention can't be controlled.. you'll never find a doctor who'll state a patient is "absolutely healthy enough" to play game #82 of the NHL schedule.. a player could never be forced to play.. however.. if the player wants to play game #1 of the playoffs.. .. well .. it becomes the players personal decision and can't be stopped from playing.

I expect Eichel to stay put on LTIR . legit or not.. so that's $20M total cap space Vegas can add at the deadline..

It seems like such an easy loophole to close too. Your playoff roster must be under the salary cap, same as your regular season roster. What's so hard about that? I've never understood why that rule all of a sudden gets thrown out the window just because it's the playoffs.

If I'm the union I let the NHL it's now a standard operating procedure and make it a bargaining issue.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830102 is a reply to message #830088 ]	Fri, 23 February 2024 12:41

Skookum Jim
Messages: 3908
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 07:41

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 05:32

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 22 February 2024 22:37

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 21:03

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

Absolutely brutal.

And hilarious

Is a 100M starting lineup for Vegas in game 1 possible?

Totally possible..

Update on Stone.. they say he has a lacerated spleen.. he'll be going on LTIR asap... $10M in cap space right there.. that's a guaranteed Game #1 re-activation scenario..

This type of cap circumvention can't be controlled.. you'll never find a doctor who'll state a patient is "absolutely healthy enough" to play game #82 of the NHL schedule.. a player could never be forced to play.. however.. if the player wants to play game #1 of the playoffs.. .. well .. it becomes the players personal decision and can't be stopped from playing.

I expect Eichel to stay put on LTIR . legit or not.. so that's $20M total cap space Vegas can add at the deadline..

It seems like such an easy loophole to close too. Your playoff roster must be under the salary cap, same as your regular season roster. What's so hard about that? I've never understood why that rule all of a sudden gets thrown out the window just because it's the playoffs.

If I'm the union I let the NHL it's now a standard operating procedure and make it a bargaining issue.

Its great for the players.. it allows the total NHL cap to be a certain percent above the max cap at any point in time.. allow steh NHL teams to spend way more per year than the cap limit and still operate "under the cap" legally..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830103 is a reply to message #830102 ]	Fri, 23 February 2024 13:00

benv
Messages: 549
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 12:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 07:41

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 05:32

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 22 February 2024 22:37

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 21:03

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

Absolutely brutal.

And hilarious

Is a 100M starting lineup for Vegas in game 1 possible?

Totally possible..

Update on Stone.. they say he has a lacerated spleen.. he'll be going on LTIR asap... $10M in cap space right there.. that's a guaranteed Game #1 re-activation scenario..

This type of cap circumvention can't be controlled.. you'll never find a doctor who'll state a patient is "absolutely healthy enough" to play game #82 of the NHL schedule.. a player could never be forced to play.. however.. if the player wants to play game #1 of the playoffs.. .. well .. it becomes the players personal decision and can't be stopped from playing.

I expect Eichel to stay put on LTIR . legit or not.. so that's $20M total cap space Vegas can add at the deadline..

It seems like such an easy loophole to close too. Your playoff roster must be under the salary cap, same as your regular season roster. What's so hard about that? I've never understood why that rule all of a sudden gets thrown out the window just because it's the playoffs.

If I'm the union I let the NHL it's now a standard operating procedure and make it a bargaining issue.

Its great for the players.. it allows the total NHL cap to be a certain percent above the max cap at any point in time.. allow steh NHL teams to spend way more per year than the cap limit and still operate "under the cap" legally..

I've always thought this would work as well, but of course teams would still find other ways to circumvent.

One way I just thought of reading these posts: A team where money is truly no object could sign the two best goalies (say Hellibuck and Vasilevsky) for 10 million each and then alternate them in each game. You sign a third AHL caliber goalie making league minimum to back up every night and you've got essentially two 10 million dollar goalies with only one counting against the cap.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #830089 is a reply to message #830084 ]	Fri, 23 February 2024 08:51

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3705
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 05:32

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 22 February 2024 22:37

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 21:03

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 17:22

Mark Stone joins Jack Eichel on the sidelines in Vegas, right in time for the run-up to the trade deadline. Hmmm...

Absolutely brutal.

And hilarious

Is a 100M starting lineup for Vegas in game 1 possible?

Totally possible..

Update on Stone.. they say he has a lacerated spleen.. he'll be going on LTIR asap... $10M in cap space right there.. that's a guaranteed Game #1 re-activation scenario..

This type of cap circumvention can't be controlled.. you'll never find a doctor who'll state a patient is "absolutely healthy enough" to play game #82 of the NHL schedule.. a player could never be forced to play.. however.. if the player wants to play game #1 of the playoffs.. .. well .. it becomes the players personal decision and can't be stopped from playing.

I expect Eichel to stay put on LTIR . legit or not.. so that's $20M total cap space Vegas can add at the deadline..

It seems like such an easy loophole to close too. Your playoff roster must be under the salary cap, same as your regular season roster. What's so hard about that? I've never understood why that rule all of a sudden gets thrown out the window just because it's the playoffs.

I wouldn't even make it the playoff roster has to be under the cap. Just make it so whatever steps on the ice each game has to be under the cap. If you want to only dress 3 forward lines or run 4 D or whatever, to be under the cap, go ahead. So if teams like Vegas want to play the LTIR game, go for it. But the guys on the bench and on the ice have to be under the cap and your game roster is set. So if you are rolling 4 D to make it under the cap and someone blocks a shot and is out mid game, well tough luck.

All you'd have to do is submit your game roster with their cap hits and as long as it's 83.5 or under, doesn't matter how you configure it.

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